We all have our thoughts on Wojo, on the player we dislike from the other team. We all cheer and boo as we feel needed.
Am I guilty of this? Absolutely. Should I have checked myself on this? Yep!
But read this amazing article by MUBB's Zoe Comeford. (She was a great Twitter follow this year with her MUBB knowledge.)
Please take the 5 min to read this.
https://marquettewire.org/4051400/sports/comerford-life-is-more-than-just-sports/
Well stated. Unfortunately, those who need to hear the column's message, are the not the one's I would expect to take time to read it.
Great piece, and an important reminder that these people are doing their best to represent OUR university. Thank you for posting.
I agree it was time to move on, but I was continually disappointed by the vitriolic comments directed toward Wojo. I'd like to think this might change that, but....
Reading that article was an utter waste of time surpassed only by the time wasted to write that article. Fans have the right to express their opinions. The dude made millions over his time at MU. Criticism comes with the job. Should anyone be threatening or attack the man's family? Of course not. Not going to get mad though about fans saying they are happy he's gone or he's set the program back.
Thanks for posting and she's right. I always struggle with the "it's just on line/social media it shouldn't be taken serious" line of thinking as a) sometimes it clearly goes way beyond that and b) how people post on line is their personality and it is what they believe, the people who take glee from others hardship on line are the same that do it in real life but just don't say anything out loud because they know it's wrong.
Did she really segue from Marquette fans posting "bye bye" on the Instagram announcements to the psycho that DM'd death threats to EJ Liddell?
What a hack.
Agreed. Good article. Stay classy Marquette!
Is no one going to point the author's clear manipulation and moving of the goal post? She starts off with what people said about Wojo - glad he's gone, shouldn't be proud of losing record, etc. All pretty tame fan reactions to an awful coach. She then goes into connecting that to people wishing a player would die for missing a free throw. Clearly far different levels. To equate the two is absurd and manipulative.
There's a very important message here. That being aid I don't think she fully grasps the financial issues facing the university and how fixing our basketball program would have a domino effect impacting class size, applications, fundraising, etc.
Essentially if you want to write a piece focusing on how "it's only a game" then you have to consider the alternative of what does the game impact. I feel sorry for Steve and his family, truly wish they had gotten it done, but he didn't and it was time to go.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 23, 2021, 09:46:59 AM
Did she really segue from Marquette fans posting "bye bye" on the Instagram announcements to the psycho that DM'd death threats to EJ Liddell?
What a hack.
lol glad someone else has enough common sense to see through this manipulation.
Quote from: Farley36 on March 23, 2021, 09:44:34 AM
Reading that article was an utter waste of time surpassed only by the time wasted to write that article. Fans have the right to express their opinions. The dude made millions over his time at MU. Criticism comes with the job. Should anyone be threatening or attack the man's family? Of course not. Not going to get mad though about fans saying they are happy he's gone or he's set the program back.
There's expressing a desire for a coaching change and then there's continuing to crap on someone under a classy farewell message. Not surprised you can't differentiate between the two.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 23, 2021, 09:46:59 AM
Did she really segue from Marquette fans posting "bye bye" on the Instagram announcements to the psycho that DM'd death threats to EJ Liddell?
What a hack.
Quote from: Farley36 on March 23, 2021, 09:50:21 AM
Is no one going to point the author's clear manipulation and moving of the goal post? She starts off with what people said about Wojo - glad he's gone, shouldn't be proud of losing record, etc. All pretty tame fan reactions to an awful coach. She then goes into connecting that to people wishing a player would die for missing a free throw. Clearly far different levels. To equate the two is absurd and manipulative.
Not really surprising that you two are the ones who are so upset by the article.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on March 23, 2021, 09:52:56 AM
There's expressing a desire for a coaching change and then there's continuing to crap on someone under a classy farewell message. Not surprised you can't differentiate between the two.
This. He was already fired, why did people still need to be dicks about it?
Yes it's a false equivalency between the two OSU posts and ours but the broader point is why are people so invested that they feel they can be huge dbags to people they don't know.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on March 23, 2021, 09:52:56 AM
There's expressing a desire for a coaching change and then there's continuing to crap on someone under a classy farewell message. Not surprised you can't differentiate between the two.
I'm just not going to cry about a coach who made millions of dollars getting a little criticism on Instagram. If you want to act like it's an outrage feel free.
Gosh it is so easy to tear everything and everyone down. Who needs empathy? Who needs a rational discussion? We can just sit on our perches and ridicule others and live in a sea of negativity.
What a sad life that must be to see the negative in everyone and everything.
Quote from: Farley36 on March 23, 2021, 09:51:16 AM
lol glad someone else has enough common sense to see through this manipulation.
The only people "manipulated" by that article aren't likely particularly bright to begin with. It was speaking to the fact that harassment of athletes and coaches is part of a larger problem that can go to that level.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on March 23, 2021, 09:54:41 AM
Not really surprising that you two are the ones who are so upset by the article.
Not upset - just trying to understand how the two are related. It takes someone mentally unhinged to do what that guy did to EJ Liddell. Saying "bye bye" on Wojo's instagram is about as tame of a reaction as you could possibly expect.
Again - I don't remember a piece coming out like this when Buzz left us.
Quote from: Farley36 on March 23, 2021, 09:56:00 AM
I'm just not going to cry about a coach who made millions of dollars getting a little criticism on Instagram. If you want to act like it's an outrage feel free.
Commenting about and discussing it are not equivalent to crying or being outraged by it, genius.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 23, 2021, 09:57:30 AM
Not upset - just trying to understand how the two are related. It takes someone mentally unhinged to do what that guy did to EJ Liddell. Saying "bye bye" on Wojo's instagram is about as tame of a reaction as you could possibly expect.
Again - I don't remember a piece coming out like this when Buzz left us.
You called the writer a hack.
A writer who's trying to point it's just a sport and to chill on the negativity.
And this coming from you surprises me. Didn't you just blast a bunch of people (including me... and could I have done better... yes and that's on me and I apologize) for being happy that the hausers lost?
She's a hack....
But don't say anything about the hausers.
☝🏼☝🏼☝🏼This says far more about you than the writer.
My goodness, people. You can be happy MU severed ties with the man (I am), but what point is there to crapping on him on his way out? Be better than that. By all accounts he is a good man whose best efforts were just not good enough in terms of on court success.
As always, thank him for his efforts and wish him luck wherever he goes, and cheer for the next guy.
Quote from: fjm on March 23, 2021, 10:00:25 AM
You called the writer a hack.
A writer who's trying to point it's just a sport and to chill on the negativity.
And this coming from you surprises me. Didn't you just blast a bunch of people (including me... and could I have done better... yes and that's on me and I apologize) for being happy that the hausers lost?
She's a hack....
But don't say anything about the hausers.
☝🏼☝🏼☝🏼This says far more about you than the writer.
And a student writer at that.
Maybe he should go down over to Children's Hospital next and criticize the Marquette student nurses about their crappy charting technique.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 23, 2021, 09:55:05 AM
This. He was already fired, why did people still need to be dicks about it?
Yes it's a false equivalency between the two OSU posts and ours but the broader point is why are people so invested that they feel they can be huge dbags to people they don't know.
You must be new round here.
Quote from: fjm on March 23, 2021, 10:00:25 AM
You called the writer a hack.
A writer who's trying to point it's just a sport and to chill on the negativity.
And this coming from you surprises me. Didn't you just blast a bunch of people (including me... and could I have done better... yes and that's on me and I apologize) for being happy that the hausers lost?
She's a hack....
But don't say anything about the hausers.
☝🏼☝🏼☝🏼This says far more about you than the writer.
(https://media2.giphy.com/media/HTkQXTBHzAjpS/giphy.gif)
I did find this interesting: "During games in 2020-21, Marquette's PA announcer Mike Jakubowski had to race through Wojciechowski's pregame introduction as the booing for the program's head coach was louder than for the other team's introduction."
The implication: booing 18-21 year olds who chose to attend another school is fine and to be expected. Booing Wojo crosses a line.
I personally agree that a lot of the social media stuff "crosses the line." But her own words demonstrate that we draw all sorts of "lines" all the time. I suspect my "line" is a lot closer to hers than some others, but I wonder if she realizes that some people think booing other teams during introductions crosses a line.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 23, 2021, 10:10:48 AM
I did find this interesting: "During games in 2020-21, Marquette's PA announcer Mike Jakubowski had to race through Wojciechowski's pregame introduction as the booing for the program's head coach was louder than for the other team's introduction."
The implication: booing 18-21 year olds who chose to attend another school is fine and to be expected. Booing Wojo crosses a line.
I personally agree that a lot of the social media stuff "crosses the line." But her own words demonstrate that we draw all sorts of "lines" all the time. I suspect my "line" is a lot closer to hers than some others, but I wonder if she realizes that some people think booing other teams during introductions crosses a line.
I think booing the other team can be done playfully. Chanting "F*ck the [insert opponent nickname here]" is inappropriate and immature.
Quote from: fjm on March 23, 2021, 10:00:25 AM
You called the writer a hack.
A writer who's trying to point it's just a sport and to chill on the negativity.
And this coming from you surprises me. Didn't you just blast a bunch of people (including me... and could I have done better... yes and that's on me and I apologize) for being happy that the hausers lost?
She's a hack....
But don't say anything about the hausers.
☝🏼☝🏼☝🏼This says far more about you than the writer.
Lol you must be joking - you "could've done better"?? That's not at all what you were saying in that thread.
And I'm calling this writer a hack purely by the definitional form of the word - a writer whose only motivation is to advance the politics of her organization (i.e. why she has relentlessly protected Wojo).
I'm not going to follow her around and laugh at her failures throughout life the way you sickos do with the Hausers. But you "could've done better", right? 😂😂😂. PLEASE.
Quote from: fjm on March 23, 2021, 10:00:25 AM
You called the writer a hack.
A writer who's trying to point it's just a sport and to chill on the negativity.
And this coming from you surprises me. Didn't you just blast a bunch of people (including me... and could I have done better... yes and that's on me and I apologize) for being happy that the hausers lost?
She's a hack....
But don't say anything about the hausers.
☝🏼☝🏼☝🏼This says far more about you than the writer.
The clear bias towards protecting the Hauser's, and crapping on everyone else, seriously makes me wonder if 5-dollar pitcher is Mrs. Hauser.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 23, 2021, 10:14:38 AM
Lol you must be joking - you "could've done better"?? That's not at all what you were saying in that thread.
And I'm calling this writer a hack purely by the definitional form of the word - a writer whose only motivation is to advance the politics of her organization (i.e. why she has relentlessly protected Wojo).
I'm not going to follow her around and laugh at her failures throughout life the way you sickos do with the Hausers. But you "could've done better", right? 😂😂😂. PLEASE.
"Could've done better"
Quote from: fjm on March 20, 2021, 08:20:03 PM
Feel bad for 0 of them.
They can go pound sand. Maybe they should write a letter to the Ohio and UCLA coaches about how they should have been allowed to win because their daddy said so.
You tell me which is worse. This ^ or saying someone is a "hack"?
Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 23, 2021, 10:10:48 AM
I did find this interesting: "During games in 2020-21, Marquette's PA announcer Mike Jakubowski had to race through Wojciechowski's pregame introduction as the booing for the program's head coach was louder than for the other team's introduction."
The implication: booing 18-21 year olds who chose to attend another school is fine and to be expected. Booing Wojo crosses a line.
I personally agree that a lot of the social media stuff "crosses the line." But her own words demonstrate that we draw all sorts of "lines" all the time. I suspect my "line" is a lot closer to hers than some others, but I wonder if she realizes that some people think booing other teams during introductions crosses a line.
Ehhh ... I think you're making a pretty large assumption, based on facts not in evidence, about how she feels about booing the other team during introductions.
I think a more fair and accurate reading is that it's unusual for the boos directed at the home team's coach to be louder than those for the visitor, not that one is more acceptable than the other.
Anyhow, this column sure has some people getting defensive. Cuts a little close, I imagine.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 23, 2021, 10:17:23 AM
"Could've done better"
You tell me which is worse. This ^ or saying someone is a "hack"?
You're right. And thank you for posting that.
I could have done better and not posted that. And I'm sorry for that.
Quote from: warriorchick on March 23, 2021, 10:13:48 AM
I think booing the other team can be done playfully. Chanting "F*ck the [insert opponent nickname here]" is inappropriate and immature.
I agree.
My point is only that we all draw lines. You, me, the author of that article...everyone. Often they're different and often they're seemingly arbitrary. I happen to agree with her that some of the stuff she described with Wojo crossed the line. Virtually everyone would agree that the stuff with that OSU kid crossed the line.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 23, 2021, 10:10:48 AM
I did find this interesting: "During games in 2020-21, Marquette's PA announcer Mike Jakubowski had to race through Wojciechowski's pregame introduction as the booing for the program's head coach was louder than for the other team's introduction."
There was one game where a few hundred students were allowed in. And probably 15 booed. That's a reach
As Al said: There is nothing good that can happen after midnight". The same here: There is nothing good that can be typed on social media after a loss or firing.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2021, 10:19:14 AM
Ehhh ... I think you're making a pretty large assumption, based on facts not in evidence, about how she feels about booing the other team during introductions.
I think a more fair and accurate reading is that it's unusual for the boos directed at the home team's coach to be louder than those for the visitor, not that one is more acceptable than the other.
That's fair.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 23, 2021, 10:24:08 AM
I agree.
My point is only that we all draw lines. You, me, the author of that article...everyone. Often they're different and often they're seemingly arbitrary. I happen to agree with her that some of the stuff she described with Wojo crossed the line. Virtually everyone would agree that the stuff with that OSU kid crossed the line.
Touché. We do all have our own mental lines in what we feel is ok.
Quote from: fjm on March 23, 2021, 10:25:48 AM
Touché. We do all have our own mental lines in what we feel is ok.
For example: I generally don't like to boo kids...unless they go to Wisconsin. It's my line, and I'll own it.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 23, 2021, 10:10:48 AM
I did find this interesting: "During games in 2020-21, Marquette's PA announcer Mike Jakubowski had to race through Wojciechowski's pregame introduction as the booing for the program's head coach was louder than for the other team's introduction."
The implication: booing 18-21 year olds who chose to attend another school is fine and to be expected. Booing Wojo crosses a line.
What I took away from that was, considering the only students in the building during the 2020-21 season were the team itself, that Wojo's own players were booing him. Pretty clear evidence that he lost the team after all.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 23, 2021, 09:55:05 AM
Yes it's a false equivalency between the two OSU posts and ours but the broader point is why are people so invested that they feel they can be huge dbags to people they don't know.
To be fair - he took at least $15 million of University money over 7 years to move our program in the wrong direction. When Scholl offered a way forward where he keeps his job and hires a new assistant (allegedly) he decided instead to cash in his buy out.
I'd say all that is reason enough to be invested and harbor ill will against him. If you don't think the same - that's fine.
I don't think the comments on Wojo's Twitter or Instagram are a great reflection on the fan base. I also think it's pretty common across NCAA.
I think talking about how Wojo is doing at the job is fine on a message board as long as it's not personally attacking him or his family. The guy is making $2M a year so his job performance is fair game.
I don't think we've crossed the line into personally attacking Wojo and his family.
I think it's a far cry from what was sent to the OSU player, but it makes sense to draw that comparison.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 23, 2021, 10:31:30 AM
To be fair - he took at least $15 million of University money over 7 years to move our program in the wrong direction. When Scholl offered a way forward where he keeps his job and hires a new assistant (allegedly) he decided instead to cash in his buy out.
I'd say all that is reason enough to be invested and harbor I'll will against him. If you don't think the same - that's fine.
You make it sound that he intentionally did his job poorly.
Quote from: cheebs09 on March 23, 2021, 10:32:55 AM
I don't think the comments on Wojo's Twitter or Instagram are a great reflection on the fan base. I also think it's pretty common across NCAA.
I think talking about how Wojo is doing at the job is fine on a message board as long as it's not personally attacking him or his family. The guy is making $2M a year so his job performance is fair game.
I don't think we've crossed the line into personally attacking Wojo and his family.
I think it's a far cry from what was sent to the OSU player, but it makes sense to draw that comparison.
This is the correct take
Quote from: warriorchick on March 23, 2021, 10:06:38 AM
And a student writer at that.
Maybe he should go down over to Children's Hospital next and criticize the Marquette student nurses about their crappy charting technique.
Yep. The same people who rationalize ripping Wojo because he makes millions also resort to name-calling of unpaid student interns, but seem blind to the difference. Classic.
Instead of "Bye Bye", how about just saying "Thanks coach, we appreciate the effort. Best of luck in your next job." Or say nothing at all. I don't understand the desire by some people to kick a guy when he is down, even if that guy just got paid tons of money.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 23, 2021, 10:31:30 AM
To be fair - he took at least $15 million of University money over 7 years to move our program in the wrong direction. When Scholl offered a way forward where he keeps his job and hires a new assistant (allegedly) he decided instead to cash in his buy out.
I'd say all that is reason enough to be invested and harbor ill will against him. If you don't think the same - that's fine.
So what is the exact dollar amount at which you are allowed to be rude, disrespectful and petty? I need to write that down for future reference.
Quote from: warriorchick on March 23, 2021, 10:37:44 AM
So what is the exact dollar amount at which you are allowed to be rude, disrespectful and petty? I need to write that down for future reference.
$1 million
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 23, 2021, 10:14:38 AM
And I'm calling this writer a hack purely by the definitional form of the word - a writer whose only motivation is to advance the politics of her organization (i.e. why she has relentlessly protected Wojo).
Supporting the coach for your alma mater is not political.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 23, 2021, 09:57:30 AM
Not upset - just trying to understand how the two are related. It takes someone mentally unhinged to do what that guy did to EJ Liddell. Saying "bye bye" on Wojo's instagram is about as tame of a reaction as you could possibly expect.
Again - I don't remember a piece coming out like this when Buzz left us.
Many people were not happy when Buzz left especially with the last season that he put up. The real difference is the increase in the amount of inner ugliness people are comfortable with expressing since then. That's a real downside to anonymous posting. And I thought that Wojo was being paid to coach a basketball team, not to sit in your personal carnival dunking chair. Lose the entitlement, grow up.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2021, 10:40:06 AM
Supporting the coach for your alma mater is not political.
Political doesn't just mean Republican v Democrat.
Quote from: Judge Smails on March 23, 2021, 10:35:04 AM
Instead of "Bye Bye", how about just saying "Thanks coach, we appreciate the effort. Best of luck in your next job." Or say nothing at all. I don't understand the desire by some people to kick a guy when he is down, even if that guy just got paid tons of money.
this goes to my previous point that peoples on line personas are who they are in real life, some people are just dicks
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 23, 2021, 10:31:30 AM
To be fair - he took at least $15 million of University money over 7 years to move our program in the wrong direction. When Scholl offered a way forward where he keeps his job and hires a new assistant (allegedly) he decided instead to cash in his buy out.
I'd say all that is reason enough to be invested and harbor ill will against him. If you don't think the same - that's fine.
That's a good point and if he'd been on the sidelines again I'd be posting on here how ticked off I was about it. But the guy was fired already, what's the point?
I equate it to this, if you're in sales and you're dragging down team performance preventing bonuses then your team rightfully can grumble around the water cooler, try to coach you, ask you if maybe this isn't the best career, etc. But when once you're fired, should they all clap in your face and say "finally we'll get bonuses!"? No of course not, and it's no different here. The guy wasn't up for the task, he deservedly was a lightning rod for criticism but he was already gone so why pour salt on it?
Quote from: Farley36 on March 23, 2021, 09:50:21 AM
Is no one going to point the author's clear manipulation and moving of the goal post? She starts off with what people said about Wojo - glad he's gone, shouldn't be proud of losing record, etc. All pretty tame fan reactions to an awful coach. She then goes into connecting that to people wishing a player would die for missing a free throw. Clearly far different levels. To equate the two is absurd and manipulative.
I think there's a difference between posting it on here and posting it to his personal instagram (so a direct message to him that he personally receives) as he's thanking the program on the way out. Totally unnecessary to do the latter. The former is exactly what a fan board is for.
Quote from: 4everDawson on March 23, 2021, 10:40:53 AM
Many people were not happy when Buzz left especially with the last season that he put up. The real difference is the increase in the amount of inner ugliness people are comfortable with expressing since then. That's a real downside to anonymous posting. And I thought that Wojo was being paid to coach a basketball team, not to sit in your personal carnival dunking chair. Lose the entitlement, grow up.
It wasn't till Buzz trashed us in the Goodman article that people got ridiculously mad at Buzz from what I recall.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 23, 2021, 10:42:17 AM
That's a good point and if he'd been on the sidelines again I'd be posting on here how ticked off I was about it. But the guy was fired already, what's the point?
I equate it to this, if you're in sales and you're dragging down team performance preventing bonuses then your team rightfully can grumble around the water cooler, try to coach you, ask you if maybe this isn't the best career, etc. But when once you're fired, should they all clap in your face and say "finally we'll get bonuses!"? No of course not, and it's no different here. The guy wasn't up for the task, he deservedly was a lightning rod for criticism but he was already gone so why pour salt on it?
Fair point. I'll stand down on the Wojo thing.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 23, 2021, 10:41:55 AM
Political doesn't just mean Republican v Democrat.
I know.
But expressing support for the coach for your alma mater is not political.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 23, 2021, 10:44:24 AM
It wasn't till Buzz trashed us in the Goodman article that people got ridiculously mad at Buzz from what I recall.
Deservedly so.
Marquette rescued Buzz's career, gave him a chance that no one else would have (and he arguably didn't deserve at that stage of his career) and he shat on the university on his way out the door.
Buzz did terrific work while was here, earned every penny he received and easily justified the administration's decision to take a chance on him.
But he left an ingrate.
The deflection to Liddell demonstrates the weakness of this entire article. MU fans boo'ed Wojo at games, and set up a "fire Wojo" hashtag. This is classified as "harsh" and "hateful" "harassment?" Saying his firing was overdue or about time or that he set the program back on his instagram? Petty and classless, as well was totally unnecessary, but hardly "hateful." Frankly I don't see the point of even complaining about these issues, which is why I suspect the Liddell matter was brought up. I don't think Wojo did a good job as a head basketball coach, but I think he handled himself with class and professionalism throughout. Do I wish every fan of the team responded in kind, yes, but I'm not going to call what I have seen so far "hateful," because it isn't, and I am not going to wear a hair shirt because a few fans took some minor cheat shots as Wojo was leaving. I am going to ignore them, which is what they deserve.
Quote:If we are really following our Jesuit mission of "cura personalis," we would not be cheering on social media when a member of the Marquette community loses their job.
Wow! According to the author if you criticize a person's any person's job performance you criticizing the person. Somehow you cannot separate the coach from the man. A multi-million dollar severance is by definition
"cura personalis".
::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
Quote from: warriorchick on March 23, 2021, 10:13:48 AM
I think booing the other team can be done playfully. Chanting "F*ck the [insert opponent nickname here]" is inappropriate and immature.
There are two exceptions to that rule. Well, maybe three if you include the Cardinals.
Quote from: StillAWarrior on March 23, 2021, 10:10:48 AM
I did find this interesting: "During games in 2020-21, Marquette's PA announcer Mike Jakubowski had to race through Wojciechowski's pregame introduction as the booing for the program's head coach was louder than for the other team's introduction."
The implication: booing 18-21 year olds who chose to attend another school is fine and to be expected. Booing Wojo crosses a line.
I personally agree that a lot of the social media stuff "crosses the line." But her own words demonstrate that we draw all sorts of "lines" all the time. I suspect my "line" is a lot closer to hers than some others, but I wonder if she realizes that some people think booing other teams during introductions crosses a line.
How many games did we allow students to attend this past season?
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 23, 2021, 09:46:59 AM
Did she really segue from Marquette fans posting "bye bye" on the Instagram announcements to the psycho that DM'd death threats to EJ Liddell?
What a hack.
I wouldn't make the assumption that Wojo didn't get similar treatment to EJ Liddell. Just because someone doesn't make something public, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on March 23, 2021, 12:24:04 PM
How many games did we allow students to attend this past season?
I'm thinking that's a typo. It was happening by the end of the 2019-2020 season.
Quote from: connie on March 23, 2021, 11:19:26 AM
The deflection to Liddell demonstrates the weakness of this entire article. MU fans boo'ed Wojo at games, and set up a "fire Wojo" hashtag. This is classified as "harsh" and "hateful" "harassment?" Saying his firing was overdue or about time or that he set the program back on his instagram? Petty and classless, as well was totally unnecessary, but hardly "hateful." Frankly I don't see the point of even complaining about these issues, which is why I suspect the Liddell matter was brought up. I don't think Wojo did a good job as a head basketball coach, but I think he handled himself with class and professionalism throughout. Do I wish every fan of the team responded in kind, yes, but I'm not going to call what I have seen so far "hateful," because it isn't, and I am not going to wear a hair shirt because a few fans took some minor cheat shots as Wojo was leaving. I am going to ignore them, which is what they deserve.
Perfectly stated
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 23, 2021, 12:24:54 PM
I wouldn't make the assumption that Wojo didn't get similar treatment to EJ Liddell. Just because someone doesn't make something public, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
And I wouldn't make the assumption he did which is what you are implying. The only thing we have in front of us is a student reporter comparing some rather tame comments directed at Wojo to actual threats directed toward a player at another school. Apples and oranges.
Great article - thanks for sharing. We were all once as pure of heart and mind as young Zoe and able to see the world so clearly. As age grays one's lenses and reality sets in, we realize that the only thing worse than being fired (sometimes liberating) is firing someone. Nevertheless it's part of the real world and it needs to happen to enable progress. Nobody likes it.
The way I look at it, Wojo was CEO of a $15m business. It wasn't performing as well as it could have and future returns were at risk. The Chairman of the Board made a decision to go a new direction. Other stakeholders and (likely) the CEO himself were consulted before final action was taken. Anyone who takes a big job like that and doesn't consider firing as one of the possible short or long term outcomes is naive. Wojo is not naive.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 23, 2021, 12:24:54 PM
I wouldn't make the assumption that Wojo didn't get similar treatment to EJ Liddell. Just because someone doesn't make something public, doesn't mean it didn't happen.
Just stop it. The point was the article is drawing a false equivalency between what we know with the Wojo situation (i.e. "bye bye", "thanks for nothing", etc etc) and what we know with the Liddell situation (literal death threats). If you want to speculate wildly about something for which there is not proof or evidence, be my guest, but I'm sure you know that's just being disingenuous.
Quote from: Farley36 on March 23, 2021, 12:31:53 PM
And I wouldn't make the assumption he did which is what you are implying. The only thing we have in front of us is a student reporter comparing some rather tame comments directed at Wojo to actual threats directed toward a player at another school. Apples and oranges.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 23, 2021, 12:40:39 PM
Just stop it. The point was the article is drawing a false equivalency between what we know with the Wojo situation (i.e. "bye bye", "thanks for nothing", etc etc) and what we know with the Liddell situation (literal death threats). If you want to speculate wildly about something for which there is not proof or evidence, be my guest, but I'm sure you know that's just being disingenuous.
This isn't a court of law counselors. You're allowed to do some speculating. A general rule is that whatever nastiness there is in the public sphere, it's worse behind closed doors. But if you want to pretend that no one ever said or did anything worse than posting "bye bye" on social media, you can live in that world.
Quote from: real chili 83 on March 23, 2021, 12:03:32 PM
There are two exceptions to that rule. Well, maybe three if you include the Cardinals.
Well...EJ is from metro St. Louis...
I don't really understand the vitriol some have if their coach isn't successful, or, if their coach chooses to leave on his/her own. It just says more about those people saying and doing those things. And, words and actions have consequences if they cross the line.
The point of the article was to argue that people should not criticize Wojo personally simply because he did not meet everybody's expectations for his job performance.
It isn't that complicated, folks.
Quote from: shoothoops on March 23, 2021, 12:52:35 PM
I don't really understand the vitriol some have if their coach isn't successful, or, if their coach chooses to leave on his/her own. It just says more about those people saying and doing those things. And, words and actions have consequences if they cross the line.
+1
He faced the consequences for failing to win enough; he got fired. There is no need for personal vitriol.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 23, 2021, 12:50:42 PM
This isn't a court of law counselors. You're allowed to do some speculating. A general rule is that whatever nastiness there is in the public sphere, it's worse behind closed doors. But if you want to pretend that no one ever said or did anything worse than posting "bye bye" on social media, you can live in that world.
You told someone else not to assume something and just gave yourself permission to assume the opposite. Hilarious.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 23, 2021, 12:50:42 PM
This isn't a court of law counselors. You're allowed to do some speculating. A general rule is that whatever nastiness there is in the public sphere, it's worse behind closed doors. But if you want to pretend that no one ever said or did anything worse than posting "bye bye" on social media, you can live in that world.
Ok so the rational response is to blindly assume that Wojo experienced the same thing Liddell experienced? Noted.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2021, 12:54:52 PM
The point of the article was to argue that people should not criticize Wojo personally simply because he did not meet everybody's expectations for his job performance.
It isn't that complicated, folks.
I don't view booing at a game as a personal attack--it is directed to Wojo as coach. All of the MU examples given were acts directed to Wojo as coach. If you identify actual (not made up or possible) death threats or personal attacks I will condemn them. In the meantime, I (just a little) resent the idea that acting ungracious is hateful harassment, and the implied moral judgement that comes from equating such innocuous acts with an actual death threat.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 23, 2021, 12:50:42 PM
This isn't a court of law counselors. You're allowed to do some speculating. A general rule is that whatever nastiness there is in the public sphere, it's worse behind closed doors. But if you want to pretend that no one ever said or did anything worse than posting "bye bye" on social media, you can live in that world.
Hmm...I dread to think what we really think about each other here on Scoop!
Quote from: connie on March 23, 2021, 01:02:09 PM
I don't view booing at a game as a personal attack--it is directed to Wojo as coach. All of the MU examples given were acts directed to Wojo as coach. If you identify actual (not made up or possible) death threats or personal attacks I will condemn them. In the meantime, I (just a little) resent the idea that acting ungracious is hateful harassment, and the implied moral judgement that comes from equating such innocuous acts with an actual death threat.
(https://media.tenor.com/images/fb34f619b878b542116b6c1ec469877c/tenor.gif)
Quote from: Farley36 on March 23, 2021, 01:01:42 PM
You told someone else not to assume something and just gave yourself permission to assume the opposite. Hilarious.
You and he can assume whatever you want. I think if you took time to think about it, you'd recognize that what's available in the public sphere is probably not the whole story.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 23, 2021, 01:01:54 PM
Ok so the rational response is to blindly assume that Wojo experienced the same thing Liddell experienced? Noted.
The same thing? Maybe not. Worse than what's publicly available? Yes, I think that's the most realistic scenario.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 23, 2021, 01:11:34 PM
The same thing? Maybe not. Worse than what's publicly available? Yes, I think that's the most realistic scenario.
NM. You sound ridiculous.
Quote from: connie on March 23, 2021, 01:02:09 PM
I don't view booing at a game as a personal attack--it is directed to Wojo as coach. All of the MU examples given were acts directed to Wojo as coach. If you identify actual (not made up or possible) death threats or personal attacks I will condemn them. In the meantime, I (just a little) resent the idea that acting ungracious is hateful harassment, and the implied moral judgement that comes from equating such innocuous acts with an actual death threat.
Neither the author nor I "equated" booing with death threats. She used them as an example of the ridiculous extremes to which some fans will go. That is a huge difference...and a huge leap you made to interpret it as equating the two.
Anyhow, the fact that my incredibly innocuous comments are upsetting to you - even though they are MUCH milder than things fans have said about Wojo as a coach - is exactly the reason why it was wrong for people to kick him on his way out the door. He is a human being. He posted a gracious note right after he had been fired. It was immature and unnecessary for people to post snarky comments at that point.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2021, 01:48:39 PM
Neither the author nor I "equated" booing with death threats. She used them as an example of the ridiculous extremes to which some fans will go. That is a huge difference...and a huge leap you made to interpret it as equating the two.
Wait, booing at a sporting event is now considered a ridiculous extreme? Sheesh.
Imagine if the author of the article ever met a referee!
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2021, 01:48:39 PM
Neither the author nor I "equated" booing with death threats. She used them as an example of the ridiculous extremes to which some fans will go. That is a huge difference...and a huge leap you made to interpret it as equating the two.
I don't know a gentler way to tell you that you are wrong than to point you to the last paragraph of the article. After examining the deplorable comments made to Liddell -in a number of paragraphs with a number of examples- the author quotes Scholl talking about what a great person Wojo is, before claiming: "There's too much hate in the real world for there to be even more animosity online. Social media harassment in college athletics needs to stop because athletes and coaches are humans with families, just like the rest of us. Put yourself in their shoes and be more compassionate because, at the end of the day, basketball is just a game." If she isn't including the booing at games or #firewojo into this "hate" then why write the article and give those examples and call them acts of hate and harassment? Of course she is equating the two, and yes, I object to that. A few MU fans said some classless things. If you or the "Executive Sports Editor" want to try to shut down booing at a game by calling it "hate" and "harassment" and
equating the examples she provides with the actual racist death threats made to Liddell then I think you both are wrong in a number of ways.
Quote from: connie on March 23, 2021, 02:12:13 PM
I don't know a gentler way to tell you that you are wrong than to point you to the last paragraph of the article. After examining the deplorable comments made to Liddell -in a number of paragraphs with a number of examples- the author quotes Scholl talking about what a great person Wojo is, before claiming: "There's too much hate in the real world for there to be even more animosity online. Social media harassment in college athletics needs to stop because athletes and coaches are humans with families, just like the rest of us. Put yourself in their shoes and be more compassionate because, at the end of the day, basketball is just a game." If she isn't including the booing at games or #firewojo into this "hate" then why write the article and give those examples and call them acts of hate and harassment? Of course she is equating the two, and yes, I object to that. A few MU fans said some classless things. If you or the "Executive Sports Editor" want to try to shut down booing at a game by calling it "hate" and "harassment" and equating the examples she provides with the actual racist death threats made to Liddell then I think you both are wrong in a number of ways.
I don't care if you're gentle or not. I know exactly what you are trying to say, and I disagree with your point. Nobody was trying to 'equate' the two extremes.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2021, 02:15:40 PM
I don't care if you're gentle or not. I know exactly what you are trying to say, and I disagree with your point. Nobody was trying to 'equate' the two extremes.
Then why include in the article? We all conclude the two things aren't the same nor even remotely close to each other. Are we trying to illustrate that booing Wojo and saying "bye bye" on his instagram could lead to what happened to Liddell? If so, that's a huge stretch and a practice in gaslighting those of us that boo him or have expressed our displeasure (on Scoop for instance). As I've said before - it takes someone completely mentally unhinged from reality to do what that guy did to Liddell.
Quote from: real chili 83 on March 23, 2021, 12:03:32 PM
There are two exceptions to that rule. Well, maybe three if you include the Cardinals.
Jealous Chili?
On a serious note, nobody cheered harder for Wojo than me. Nobody wanted him to win more than I did. Many equaled it, but I'm in a Marquette family and have loved Marquette basketball for decades.
As it became apparent that Coach Wojo wasn't getting the job done to Marquette standards, there was a feeling of sadness. He is a decent guy and he has a high-quality family. I wanted him to succeed and really felt for him as well as for our team when things went sideways.
I hope he's successful and rebounds from this disappointment. He's a class act.
P.S. -- Go Cardinals
The article asked us to feel sorry for Wojo and his family while conveniently failing to mention the $9 million buyout he was paid to go away, in addition to the $2 million annual salary he'd been receiving at Marquette. He had a horrible season, was a stubborn a$$hole to his boss when changes were recommended, and now his children's grandchildren will never have to work a day in their lives simply because he was given his walking papers.
I'm not gonna feel too sorry for a guy like that, and I think it's fine for fans to voice their displeasure as long as his family is kept out of it, and threats to the safety of him or his family aren't made. In other words, "you suck" and "thanks for nothing" and "bye bye" are all fine and come with the territory of being a major sports coach.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on March 23, 2021, 03:08:37 PM
The article asked us to feel sorry for Wojo and his family while conveniently failing to mention the $9 million buyout he was paid to go away, in addition to the $2 million annual salary he'd been receiving at Marquette. He had a horrible season, was a stubborn a$$hole to his boss when changes were recommended, and now his children's grandchildren will never have to work a day in their lives simply because he was given his walking papers.
I'm not gonna feel too sorry for a guy like that, and I think it's fine for fans to voice their displeasure as long as his family is kept out of it, and threats to the safety of him or his family aren't made. In other words, "you suck" and "thanks for nothing" and "bye bye" are all fine and come with the territory of being a major sports coach.
Classless after the guys been let go. And your 'the money makes it ok' comes off as jealousy more than anything. I'm all for displeasure when he was the coach but again I refer to my post here:
Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 23, 2021, 10:42:17 AM
That's a good point and if he'd been on the sidelines again I'd be posting on here how ticked off I was about it. But the guy was fired already, what's the point?
I equate it to this, if you're in sales and you're dragging down team performance preventing bonuses then your team rightfully can grumble around the water cooler, try to coach you, ask you if maybe this isn't the best career, etc. But when once you're fired, should they all clap in your face and say "finally we'll get bonuses!"? No of course not, and it's no different here. The guy wasn't up for the task, he deservedly was a lightning rod for criticism but he was already gone so why pour salt on it?
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 23, 2021, 02:25:11 PM
Then why include in the article? We all conclude the two things aren't the same nor even remotely close to each other.
Easy. To give an example of how far things can go.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Quote from: Silent Verbal on March 23, 2021, 03:08:37 PM
The article asked us to feel sorry for Wojo and his family while conveniently failing to mention the $9 million buyout he was paid to go away, in addition to the $2 million annual salary he'd been receiving at Marquette. He had a horrible season, was a stubborn a$$hole to his boss when changes were recommended, and now his children's grandchildren will never have to work a day in their lives simply because he was given his walking papers.
I'm not gonna feel too sorry for a guy like that, and I think it's fine for fans to voice their displeasure as long as his family is kept out of it, and threats to the safety of him or his family aren't made. In other words, "you suck" and "thanks for nothing" and "bye bye" are all fine and come with the territory of being a major sports coach.
Maybe just don't be an a--hole to anyone, regardless of how much they earn?
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2021, 03:19:13 PM
Easy. To give an example of how far things can go.
Nothing more, nothing less.
Subtly accusing the fans booing Wojo and commenting "bye bye" on his Instagram of being on the precipice of threatening his and his family's safety? That's great journalism.
Quote from: shoothoops on March 23, 2021, 12:52:35 PM
I don't really understand the vitriol some have if their coach isn't successful, or, if their coach chooses to leave on his/her own. It just says more about those people saying and doing those things. And, words and actions have consequences if they cross the line.
Probably also has to do with how out of whack compensation has gotten in comparison to the average fan's or alumnus'.
Really hard to feel genuine empathy for someone losing their job who made 50x more than you did by literally just getting fired. Yeah it sucks and people shouldn't be d***s about it but hard to not roll your eyes when someone who made $20+ million failing is trying to tell you a sob story about it.
I'm gonna put this scenario out there. You're a teenager who thinks your dad's your hero and don't really have a grasp on income disparity yet. Scrolling through the social media you see fans badgering him like crazy, and people advocating for him to be fired. Next, he is fired, it's scary because you don't grasp money fully yet, and your dad gives you a talk about being classy and appreciative for everything. But then you read all this hate being spewed.
It's not about Wojo and his checks it's about letting him go out with the same class on our side that he showed on his.
If the Liddell thing didn't even happen does this article even get written? I mean - it would be a pretty whiny, nothingness piece if she didn't disingenuously parlay it into the Liddell thing.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 23, 2021, 03:14:39 PM
Classless after the guys been let go. And your 'the money makes it ok' comes off as jealousy more than anything. I'm all for displeasure when he was the coach but again I refer to my post here:
Part of the fun of being a sports fan is having guys you don't like. If Wojo wants to escape that type of criticism, he can get an anonymous job in the "real world" where that type of stuff doesn't happen.
The funny thing about this thread is that the more the vocal Nojos complain about the article, the more it proves the writer's point.
The Nojos feel they should be able to express their opinion about Wojo's performance in the manner they choose - be it booing, or ranting on a message board, or with condescending responses to a social media post. They say, "he should be able to handle it." Sometimes they rationalize it by quoting his salary.
But the minute a writer expresses her opinion about their ways of criticizing Wojo, those same Nojos claim it's unfair for her to criticize them. And unfair for some of us to agree with her.
Interesting.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2021, 04:06:59 PM
The funny thing about this thread is that the more the vocal Nojos complain about the article, the more it proves the writer's point.
The Nojos feel they should be able to express their opinion about Wojo's performance in the manner they choose - be it booing, or ranting on a message board, or with condescending responses to a social media post. They say, "he should be able to handle it." Sometimes they rationalize it by quoting his salary.
But the minute a writer expresses her opinion about their ways of criticizing Wojo, those same Nojos claim it's unfair for her to criticize them. And unfair for some of us to agree with her.
Interesting.
Some people don't like what they see when a mirror is held up to their face, and their solution is to punch the mirror.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on March 23, 2021, 03:38:10 PM
I'm gonna put this scenario out there. You're a teenager who thinks your dad's your hero and don't really have a grasp on income disparity yet. Scrolling through the social media you see fans badgering him like crazy, and people advocating for him to be fired. Next, he is fired, it's scary because you don't grasp money fully yet, and your dad gives you a talk about being classy and appreciative for everything. But then you read all this hate being spewed.
It's not about Wojo and his checks it's about letting him go out with the same class on our side that he showed on his.
If we had Wojo's checks we have a lot of class too and if she doesn't grasp the worth of the dollar she must have had everything handed to her on a platter. She is conflating job performance with cura personalis.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2021, 04:06:59 PM
The funny thing about this thread is that the more the vocal Nojos complain about the article, the more it proves the writer's point.
The Nojos feel they should be able to express their opinion about Wojo's performance in the manner they choose - be it booing, or ranting on a message board, or with condescending responses to a social media post. They say, "he should be able to handle it." Sometimes they rationalize it by quoting his salary.
But the minute a writer expresses her opinion about their ways of criticizing Wojo, those same Nojos claim it's unfair for her to criticize them. And unfair for some of us to agree with her.
Interesting.
Yeah they are being quite defensive...
Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2021, 03:28:50 PM
Maybe just don't be an a--hole to anyone, regardless of how much they earn?
Quote from: muwarrior69 on March 23, 2021, 04:17:01 PM
If we had Wojo's checks we have a lot of class too and if she doesn't grasp the worth of the dollar she must have had everything handed to her on a platter. She is conflating job performance with cura personalis.
(https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/78028615.jpg)
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2021, 04:06:59 PM
The funny thing about this thread is that the more the vocal Nojos complain about the article, the more it proves the writer's point.
The Nojos feel they should be able to express their opinion about Wojo's performance in the manner they choose - be it booing, or ranting on a message board, or with condescending responses to a social media post. They say, "he should be able to handle it." Sometimes they rationalize it by quoting his salary.
But the minute a writer expresses her opinion about their ways of criticizing Wojo, those same Nojos claim it's unfair for her to criticize them. And unfair for some of us to agree with her.
Interesting.
I just take exception to vocal Nojos being compared to the Liddell guy. Absolutely insane comparison, and it's absurd to even give it the time of day.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 23, 2021, 04:27:25 PM
I just take exception to vocal Nojos being compared to the Liddell guy. Absolutely insane comparison, and it's absurd to even give it the time of day.
That's not what she did.
You're trying way too hard to be offended.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 23, 2021, 04:27:25 PM
I just take exception to vocal Nojos being compared to the Liddell guy. Absolutely insane comparison, and it's absurd to even give it the time of day.
So other than the Liddell reference, you're totally OK with the article?
I know the article isn't perfect - and certainly could have been done without it - but I think her point stands. Do you?
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2021, 04:06:59 PM
The funny thing about this thread is that the more the vocal Nojos complain about the article, the more it proves the writer's point.
The Nojos feel they should be able to express their opinion about Wojo's performance in the manner they choose - be it booing, or ranting on a message board, or with condescending responses to a social media post. They say, "he should be able to handle it." Sometimes they rationalize it by quoting his salary.
But the minute a writer expresses her opinion about their ways of criticizing Wojo, those same Nojos claim it's unfair for her to criticize them. And unfair for some of us to agree with her.
Interesting.
No one is saying it's unfair or she doesn't have the right. They're saving the point she's making is stupid. You just wanted to sound profound but you failed.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2021, 04:29:39 PM
That's not what she did.
You're trying way too hard to be offended.
Not as hard as she tried to be offended by all the awful messages directed at Wojo.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2021, 04:29:39 PM
So other than the Liddell reference, you're totally OK with the article?
I know the article isn't perfect - and certainly could have been done without it - but I think her point stands. Do you?
Yes honestly. But I do think it just wouldn't have been written without the Liddell piece. That is the provocateur.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2021, 04:06:59 PM
The funny thing about this thread is that the more the vocal Nojos complain about the article, the more it proves the writer's point.
The Nojos feel they should be able to express their opinion about Wojo's performance in the manner they choose - be it booing, or ranting on a message board, or with condescending responses to a social media post. They say, "he should be able to handle it." Sometimes they rationalize it by quoting his salary.
But the minute a writer expresses her opinion about their ways of criticizing Wojo, those same Nojos claim it's unfair for her to criticize them. And unfair for some of us to agree with her.
Interesting.
Ding ding ding. The people who dish out the most criticism can't take a single critique themselves. As evidenced by posts in this very thread calling a student writer a "hack" when she's just calling for less toxicity and more kindness in the way we treat each other online.
Shame.
Quote from: Farley36 on March 23, 2021, 04:33:05 PM
No one is saying it's unfair or she doesn't have the right. They're saving the point she's making is stupid. You just wanted to sound profound but you failed.
You sound really bothered by the criticism. Interesting.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2021, 04:38:21 PM
You sound really bothered by the criticism. Bummer.
I'm not bothered at all. I never posted a word about Wojo anywhere but scoop. I find it hilarious how some of you are so offended by a few mean posts on Instagram and how you've projected that anyone who things the article was a massive overreaction is a fragile little snowflake.
Fans are idiots
Quote from: Farley36 on March 23, 2021, 04:40:39 PM
I'm not bothered at all. I never posted a word about Wojo anywhere but scoop. I find it hilarious how some of you are so offended by a few mean posts on Instagram and how you've projected that anyone who things the article was a massive overreaction is a fragile little snowflake.
If you're not bothered at all, why do you keep reacting to any contrary viewpoint?
Quote from: Uncle Rico on March 23, 2021, 04:44:27 PM
Fans are idiots
A sentiment upon which we all can agree.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2021, 05:02:34 PM
If you're not bothered at all, why do you keep reacting to any contrary viewpoint?
Call me crazy but it's a message board and the purpose is to discuss things. I'll take not that I can only share GooooMarquette approved opinions from now on.
Quote from: Farley36 on March 23, 2021, 05:06:10 PM
Call me crazy but it's a message board and the purpose is to discuss things. I'll take not that I can only share GooooMarquette approved opinions from now on.
Gotcha. Anyhow, glad to hear the article didn't bother you.
Cheers.
So this is why I absolutely hate social media. It's one of those things that when they were thinking about it, they forgot to add this kind of stuff on the potentially bad side of the ledger. That said, as a No-Jo, I wanted the school to move on. I also recognize that he might be a great guy (don't know him personally), may have a great family (so I've been told), and may have done a lot of good things. While he was paid handsomely to coach here, that doesn't factor in. I also don't believe that he purposely tried to tank the program. No malice on his behalf. He wanted to win and he worked hard, I truly believe that. He just didn't get it done and that's unfortunate because had it worked out, you like to see things work for good people. As far as I know, he's a good person. This is why when it was announced, it wasn't a time to dunk on Steve. Unless someone had a personal beef with him, which I doubt that was the case with all the people that chose to kick the guy when he was down, it's kind of unbecoming to rub it right in his face. I think most people, if they were happy, it was because his dismissal meant change, meant that the results we had been seeing weren't acceptable. I know that's the way I looked at it.
I think when you sign up to be a coach, there are certain aspects of the job that come with the territory. Dealing with people that have gone over the edge unfortunately is more commonplace today. But given that, there is a point. I think the article doesn't differentiate enough from the people calling for someone's death (unhinged anti-social clowns), and someone gloating about someone getting canned (people who lack empathy) are on opposite ends of the jackwagon spectrum. They are both fools and it's too bad this happens in society. You never want your reaction to something be the story. The people referenced either missed that piece of advice or don't care. If the latter, I feel for them because I'm thinking they likely have larger problems in their lives that a missed free-throw or a coaching change aren't going to solve.
Quote from: joparks on March 23, 2021, 05:25:20 PM
So this is why I absolutely hate social media. It's one of those things that when they were thinking about it, they forgot to add this kind of stuff on the potentially bad side of the ledger. That said, as a No-Jo, I wanted the school to move on. I also recognize that he might be a great guy (don't know him personally), may have a great family (so I've been told), and may have done a lot of good things. While he was paid handsomely to coach here, that doesn't factor in. I also don't believe that he purposely tried to tank the program. No malice on his behalf. He wanted to win and he worked hard, I truly believe that. He just didn't get it done and that's unfortunate because had it worked out, you like to see things work for good people. As far as I know, he's a good person. This is why when it was announced, it wasn't a time to dunk on Steve. Unless someone had a personal beef with him, which I doubt that was the case with all the people that chose to kick the guy when he was down, it's kind of unbecoming to rub it right in his face. I think most people, if they were happy, it was because his dismissal meant change, meant that the results we had been seeing weren't acceptable. I know that's the way I looked at it.
I think when you sign up to be a coach, there are certain aspects of the job that come with the territory. Dealing with people that have gone over the edge unfortunately is more commonplace today. But given that, there is a point. I think the article doesn't differentiate enough from the people calling for someone's death (unhinged anti-social clowns), and someone gloating about someone getting canned (people who lack empathy) are on opposite ends of the jackwagon spectrum. They are both fools and it's too bad this happens in society. You never want your reaction to something be the story. The people referenced either missed that piece of advice or don't care. If the latter, I feel for them because I'm thinking they likely have larger problems in their lives that a missed free-throw or a coaching change aren't going to solve.
Spot on
Quote from: Farley36 on March 23, 2021, 05:06:10 PM
Call me crazy but it's a message board and the purpose is to discuss things. I'll take not that I can only share GooooMarquette approved opinions from now on.
You sound a little more childish with each post. I'm expecting your next post to let us know you are now stomping your feet - really hard.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on March 23, 2021, 04:06:59 PM
The funny thing about this thread is that the more the vocal Nojos complain about the article, the more it proves the writer's point.
The Nojos feel they should be able to express their opinion about Wojo's performance in the manner they choose - be it booing, or ranting on a message board, or with condescending responses to a social media post. They say, "he should be able to handle it." Sometimes they rationalize it by quoting his salary.
But the minute a writer expresses her opinion about their ways of criticizing Wojo, those same Nojos claim it's unfair for her to criticize them. And unfair for some of us to agree with her.
Interesting.
Every post I have on this topic disputes the author's contention that booing and a hashtag are hateful harassment and the equivalent of racist death threats, but you go ahead and transpose that into a claim that people who don't agree with her believe they "should be able to express their opinion ...in the manner they choose." Literally the opposite of the point being made, that there is no comparison between booing and the unacceptable death threats made to Liddell. Continue to preach with your sense of smug superiority how the article must have struck a nerve when the only way you are able to respond to the criticism of it is to completely mischaracterize the objection. I am just thankful that despite your delusions no one appointed you the moral arbiter of sports or all criticism, calls for replacement or snarky "byes" would be banned, leading me to ask what the hell you are doing on a fan message board to begin with?
Quote from: connie on March 23, 2021, 06:52:37 PM
Every post I have on this topic disputes the author's contention that booing and a hashtag are hateful harassment and the equivalent of racist death threats, but you go ahead and transpose that into a claim that people who don't agree with her believe they "should be able to express their opinion ...in the manner they choose." Literally the opposite of the point being made, that there is no comparison between booing and the unacceptable death threats made to Liddell. Continue to preach with your sense of smug superiority how the article must have struck a nerve when the only way you are able to respond to the criticism of it is to completely mischaracterize the objection. I am just thankful that despite your delusions no one appointed you the moral arbiter of sports or all criticism, calls for replacement or snarky "byes" would be banned, leading me to ask what the hell you are doing on a fan message board to begin with?
Some people think their role on this board is to be some form of morality police. It makes them feel big. When they don't have something to condemn, they just put words in your mouth and condemn that instead.
Quote from: connie on March 23, 2021, 06:52:37 PM
Every post I have on this topic disputes the author's contention that booing and a hashtag are hateful harassment and the equivalent of racist death threats, but you go ahead and transpose that into a claim that people who don't agree with her believe they "should be able to express their opinion ...in the manner they choose." Literally the opposite of the point being made, that there is no comparison between booing and the unacceptable death threats made to Liddell. Continue to preach with your sense of smug superiority how the article must have struck a nerve when the only way you are able to respond to the criticism of it is to completely mischaracterize the objection. I am just thankful that despite your delusions no one appointed you the moral arbiter of sports or all criticism, calls for replacement or snarky "byes" would be banned, leading me to ask what the hell you are doing on a fan message board to begin with?
I am not the moral arbiter of anything. I just find it interesting that people who ripped Wojo were so triggered by the article.
Anyhow, peace.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 23, 2021, 09:46:59 AM
Did she really segue from Marquette fans posting "bye bye" on the Instagram announcements to the psycho that DM'd death threats to EJ Liddell?
What a hack.
Agreed.
#FireWojo is so far away from death threats that she has to have something seriously wrong with her to even think of making that comparison.
Quote from: cheebs09 on March 23, 2021, 10:32:55 AM
I don't think the comments on Wojo's Twitter or Instagram are a great reflection on the fan base. I also think it's pretty common across NCAA.
I think talking about how Wojo is doing at the job is fine on a message board as long as it's not personally attacking him or his family. The guy is making $2M a year so his job performance is fair game.
I don't think we've crossed the line into personally attacking Wojo and his family.
I think it's a far cry from what was sent to the OSU player, but it makes sense to draw that comparison.
How does it make sense?
The gulf between "Wojo stinks and should be fired" (while he's made millions of dollars) and "I hope the kid dies" because of a missed FT is a million miles wide.
Quote from: Judge Smails on March 23, 2021, 10:35:04 AM
Instead of "Bye Bye", how about just saying "Thanks coach, we appreciate the effort. Best of luck in your next job." Or say nothing at all. I don't understand the desire by some people to kick a guy when he is down, even if that guy just got paid tons of money.
Getting paid 7 million or so isn't "being down" imo. He is on easy street and one of the luckiest people in the world even if he never coaches again.
Someone losing his job when they live paycheck to paycheck is another matter.
Quote from: Pakuni on March 23, 2021, 04:29:39 PM
That's not what she did.
You're trying way too hard to be offended.
She could have easily written the column without including the Michigan player and the death threats. Zoe invited the comparisons.
It took a column I would simply have disagreed with and made it farcical, imo.
I do find it fascinating how some here still attack Crean and Buzz to this day and now want us to leave poor Wojo alone.
There is an old True-ism:
"How it Acts, that's what it is And what it is, is how it Acts. Exhibit "A".
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 23, 2021, 07:18:17 PM
Some people think their role on this board is to be some form of morality police. It makes them feel big. When they don't have something to condemn, they just put words in your mouth and condemn that instead.
Says the guy who has named himself captain of the morality police when it comes to the Hausers ... even as he condemns Theo John for being "soft" and a student journalist for being "a hack."
Just to make sure we've all got Moral Police Captain 5DP's guidelines in proper order:
++ Absolutely not OK for Marquette fans to criticize two guys who quit on the program.
++ A-OK for Marquette fans to criticize a guy who played through injuries to give everything he had to the program for 4 years.
++ Don't rip on students! Unless I do it, then I can say my ripping wasn't really ripping, or wasn't all that bad, or some other justification to make it seem like I'm not as big a hypocrite as I obviously am.
Correct?
Quote from: NolongerWarriors on March 23, 2021, 11:34:14 PM
How does it make sense?
The gulf between "Wojo stinks and should be fired" (while he's made millions of dollars) and "I hope the kid dies" because of a missed FT is a million miles wide.
I don't disagree. I just think it makes sense a reporter would try to draw a parallel to our situation to one that is making relatively big news.
Bullying on social media is a pretty big deal and we have our own variety with Wojo. Granted, I think what Liddell received and what was presented in the article to Wojo are worlds apart. Although, we don't know the extent of what Wojo was receiving.
Quote from: MU82 on March 24, 2021, 09:18:55 AM
Says the guy who has named himself captain of the morality police when it comes to the Hausers ... even as he condemns Theo John for being "soft" and a student journalist for being "a hack."
Just to make sure we've all got Moral Police Captain 5DP's guidelines in proper order:
++ Absolutely not OK for Marquette fans to criticize two guys who quit on the program.
++ A-OK for Marquette fans to criticize a guy who played through injuries to give everything he had to the program for 4 years.
++ Don't rip on students! Unless I do it, then I can say my ripping wasn't really ripping, or wasn't all that bad, or some other justification to make it seem like I'm not as big a hypocrite as I obviously am.
Correct?
My take has always been that it's weird and sick how many people follow around the Hausers 2 years after they've left the program just to bask in their failures. It makes our fanbase look like we're some jealous ex that will never get over a rough breakup.
If you can't see how that's clearly different from what I've done, I can't help you.
Quote from: MU82 on March 24, 2021, 09:18:55 AM
Says the guy who has named himself captain of the morality police when it comes to the Hausers ... even as he condemns Theo John for being "soft" and a student journalist for being "a hack."
Just to make sure we've all got Moral Police Captain 5DP's guidelines in proper order:
++ Absolutely not OK for Marquette fans to criticize two guys who quit on the program.
++ A-OK for Marquette fans to criticize a guy who played through injuries to give everything he had to the program for 4 years.
++ Don't rip on students! Unless I do it, then I can say my ripping wasn't really ripping, or wasn't all that bad, or some other justification to make it seem like I'm not as big a hypocrite as I obviously am.
Correct?
++ and we can rip each other if we don't agree. Nah...we all practice Cura Personalis here on Scoop
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 24, 2021, 09:52:40 AM
My take has always been that it's weird and sick how many people follow around the Hausers 2 years after they've left the program just to bask in their failures. It makes our fanbase look like we're some jealous ex that will never get over a rough breakup.
If you can't see how that's clearly different from what I've done, I can't help you.
I and pretty much every other Scooper clearly see that you have made different "rules" for yourself than for others when it comes to criticizing current or former Marquette students. You can try to couch it or justify it any way you want, but that's what you've done.
And if you can't see why there would be feelings of schadenfreude when two guys who quit on our alma mater end up losing with their new teams, I can't help you.
Quote from: MU82 on March 24, 2021, 10:03:44 AM
And if you can't see why there would be feelings of schadenfreude when two guys who quit on our alma mater end up losing with their new teams, I can't help you.
Weird and obsessed!
In what world is comparing booing the handsomely paid coaching professional to a student athlete receiving death threats an equivalent?
Quote from: panda on March 24, 2021, 10:06:01 AM
In what world is comparing booing the handsomely paid coaching professional to a student athlete receiving death threats an equivalent?
It's not. That's why the article is hackish.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 24, 2021, 10:05:47 AM
Weird and obsessed!
Well, you were obsessed with rooting for your favorite team to lose every game this season, but I don't know you well enough to know if you're weird.
Quote from: 5DollarPitcher on March 24, 2021, 10:05:47 AM
Weird and obsessed!
Now, now what would Zoe think; Cura Personalis.