I actually saw a copy of it before it was taken down. It was repulsive.
Kudos to Marquette for taking such swift action.
https://marquettewire.org/4033375/sports/lacrosse-commits-snapchat-sparks-outrage-among-students-community/?fbclid=IwAR1jCw8sFnadKfc_pSIEihKWoSopiYbiL3rkydNC4Y3E0JthobdVfqZ3x1I
What in the world is happening. Unbelievable.
Actions have consequences.
Wow well she got her wish people "came at her"
Turn over any rock and you can find human garbage.
Am I reading this incorrectly? Isn't she condemning the kneeling on the head of the cop?
So is Audrey jasmine or Kelsey?
Quote from: #UnleashJayce on June 01, 2020, 08:16:23 PM
Am I reading this incorrectly? Isn't she condemning the kneeling on the head of the cop?
No, she is saying it is okay to kneel on necks because folks have kneeled in protest before that.
Quote from: #UnleashJayce on June 01, 2020, 08:16:23 PM
Am I reading this incorrectly? Isn't she condemning the kneeling on the head of the cop?
(This is the first I have heard about this)
I read it to mean she is saying it is okay to kneel on someone's head if you are are going to kneel during the National Anthem. ...obviously referencing George Floyd's murder and Colin Kaepernick etc...
Quote from: shoothoops on June 01, 2020, 08:28:19 PM
(This is the first I have heard about this)
I read it to mean she is saying it is okay to kneel on someone's head if you are are going to kneel during the National Anthem. ...obviously referencing George Floyd's murder and Colin Kaepernick etc...
Yeah, I read it a few times as I wasn't sure what she was saying and realized that's what she meant.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on June 01, 2020, 08:35:18 PM
Yeah, I read it a few times as I wasn't sure what she was saying and realized that's what she meant.
I had to read it a couple of times. It wasn't super clear the first time.
I think everyone read her post a bunch of times because it made no sense.
Frankly, without context, I wouldn't condemn her for that -- but I would yank a scholarship to MU as she can't put two coherent sentences together.
Quote from: shoothoops on June 01, 2020, 08:49:16 PM
I had to read it a couple of times. It wasn't super clear the first time.
Yeah, I missed it the first time too. Not very well written.
Anyhow, I am glad MU took prompt action.
Quote from: mu_hilltopper on June 01, 2020, 08:54:37 PM
I think everyone read her post a bunch of times because it made no sense.
Frankly, without context, I wouldn't condemn her for that -- but I would yank a scholarship to MU as she can't put two coherent sentences together.
Different article said she followed it up with some other racial language
Correct me if I'm interpreting this incorrectly, but not only is her scholarship pulled, but her acceptance is as well? Couldn't even attend if she paid her own way?
Would be the correct decision IMO if that is the case.
Quote from: Its DJOver on June 01, 2020, 10:09:43 PM
Correct me if I'm interpreting this incorrectly, but not only is her scholarship pulled, but her acceptance is as well? Couldn't even attend if she paid her own way?
Would be the correct decision IMO if that is the case.
I think so. It said her 'offers" were pulled so I read that as scholarship and admission offer.
Bye Felicia.
Quote from: Its DJOver on June 01, 2020, 10:09:43 PM
Correct me if I'm interpreting this incorrectly, but not only is her scholarship pulled, but her acceptance is as well? Couldn't even attend if she paid her own way?
Would be the correct decision IMO if that is the case.
Yes. The acceptance of her admission application has been rescinded as well.
This kind of thing should be required reading for every kid 11 years old and up. What you say on social media could adversely affect your life.
I'm starting to think that "Social Media" should be a required class in middle schools.
Quote from: MU82 on June 02, 2020, 07:35:49 AM
This kind of thing should be required reading for every kid 11 years old and up. What you say on social media could adversely affect your life.
I'm starting to think that "Social Media" should be a required class in middle schools.
Social media, email, texting, written on paper, etc...once it is there, it is there. Impulsivity, racism, all kinds of topics are not new. What's changed and keeps changing is technology. It used to be more of an effort to write that letter to the newspaper for example. Many wouldn't follow through and complain in a much smaller forum. Recruits are frequently warned about social media. Many coaches too. There will always be some. Good for MU to stand for something. Anti-Racism is a high level choice.
There is a photo of this former MU recruit with some of her teammates, all smiles as several were college bound lax players, And, what stands out to me right away is the player standing next to her is black.
If anyone is interested, a friend of mine sent me this brief article this morning regarding a similar topic. The quotes of the young men in the piece can apply to anywhere USA.
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/benjamin-hochman/hochman-nearly-four-years-after-conway-knelt-during-anthem-westminster-star-s-gesture-hits-home/article_aac0003c-8307-5f10-8569-a6aae634d9b4.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
Quote from: MU82 on June 02, 2020, 07:35:49 AM
This kind of thing should be required reading for every kid 11 years old and up. What you say on social media could adversely affect your life.
I'm starting to think that "Social Media" should be a required class in middle schools.
The problem is not so-called social media. The problem is fascist and racist beliefs.
What can adversely affect your life is not what you post, it is being a bigot in the first place.
Quote from: shoothoops on June 02, 2020, 08:12:36 AM
Social media, email, texting, written on paper, etc...once it is there, it is there. Impulsivity, racism, all kinds of topics are not new. What's changed and keeps changing is technology. It used to be more of an effort to write that letter to the newspaper for example. Many wouldn't follow through and complain in a much smaller forum. Recruits are frequently warned about social media. Many coaches too. There will always be some. Good for MU to stand for something. Anti-Racism is a high level choice.
There is a photo of this former MU recruit with some of her teammates, all smiles as several were college bound lax players, And, what stands out to me right away is the player standing next to her is black.
If anyone is interested, a friend of mine sent me this brief article this morning regarding a similar topic. The quotes of the young men in the piece can apply to anywhere USA.
https://www.stltoday.com/sports/columns/benjamin-hochman/hochman-nearly-four-years-after-conway-knelt-during-anthem-westminster-star-s-gesture-hits-home/article_aac0003c-8307-5f10-8569-a6aae634d9b4.amp.html?__twitter_impression=true
Thanks for posting that, shoot. A very good read.
I don't think young people should be afraid to post photos of them taking a stand on a controversial subject when they know they are on the right side of history. If I took a knee during the anthem - and today, if I were an athlete, I certainly would - I would be proud of it and I'd have the attitude, "If there's some college that didn't want me, or some company that didn't hire me, because I did that, I didn't want to go there or work there anyway."
Quote from: vogue65 on June 02, 2020, 08:42:09 AM
The problem is not so-called social media. The problem is fascist and racist beliefs.
What can adversely affect your life is not what you post, it is being a bigot in the first place.
You are right of course. Though prior to social media you would learn that behavior or have to seek it out. With Twitter, Youtube, etc it gives voice to convert those that otherwise would not have been.
Instant karma.
Bye!
This person will now just keep racists thoughts to themselves instead of blasting it on social media. While this may incur a change on their world-view I doubt it. They will play the victim and be mad that they got their offers rescinded only "because they posted it" and the true reason for pulling the offer is way over their heads. They will have time to change their prejudice but in my experience, racists only get mad because they got caught and there were repercussion, not because they are mad at what they said.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 02, 2020, 09:11:23 AM
You are right of course. Though prior to social media you would learn that behavior or have to seek it out. With Twitter, Youtube, etc it gives voice to convert those that otherwise would not have been.
Just my take but I think social media is highly overrated.
Colin Kaepernick was all over the media and social media as well and was a lone voice in the wilderness.
I am proud of M.U., and the Jesuits.
The Commandant of the Marine Corps, Gen. Berger, has ordered the removal from the force all Neo-Natzis. Leadership starts at the top, not on social media.
Just my view, not trying to be argumentative.
I understand the thinking that social media is all powerful.
As true leaders stand up we will see social media as a fad.
Quote from: MU24 on June 02, 2020, 10:29:10 AM
This person will now just keep racists thoughts to themselves instead of blasting it on social media. While this may incur a change on their world-view I doubt it. They will play the victim and be mad that they got their offers rescinded only "because they posted it" and the true reason for pulling the offer is way over their heads. They will have time to change their prejudice but in my experience, racists only get mad because they got caught and there were repercussion, not because they are mad at what they said.
Understand what you're saying, and I don't disagree. I like it when racists, cruel people, sexists, criminals, etc, reveal their true selves. And I'm glad that this person now will not be associated with my alma mater.
I guess when I say I think all kids should have "Social Media" as a class, I was more referring to the idiotic - but not necessarily bigoted - things they post: pics of their private parts, bullying their peers, jokes they might not think are racist but actually are, drunken hijinx, comments supporting bad people, etc. And yes, in a moment of idiocy, bigoted thoughts.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 01, 2020, 09:47:30 PM
Different article said she followed it up with some other racial language
And apparently those who've combed through her prior postings found other racist remarks.
Quote from: vogue65 on June 02, 2020, 10:32:43 AM
Just my take but I think social media is highly overrated.
Colin Kaepernick was all over the media and social media as well and was a lone voice in the wilderness.
I am proud of M.U., and the Jesuits.
The Commandant of the Marine Corps, Gen. Berger, has ordered the removal from the force all Neo-Natzis. Leadership starts at the top, not on social media.
Just my view, not trying to be argumentative.
I understand the thinking that social media is all powerful.
As true leaders stand up we will see social media as a fad.
Anyone who thinks social media is "just a fad," doesn't really understand social media.
Quote from: MU24 on June 02, 2020, 10:29:10 AM
This person will now just keep racists thoughts to themselves instead of blasting it on social media. While this may incur a change on their world-view I doubt it. They will play the victim and be mad that they got their offers rescinded only "because they posted it" and the true reason for pulling the offer is way over their heads. They will have time to change their prejudice but in my experience, racists only get mad because they got caught and there were repercussion, not because they are mad at what they said.
Maybe. I don't think being racist is either a checkbox of yes and no, but there are various degrees depending on your experience and your worldview. She's 18. Her worldview is undoubtedly primarily shaped by her parents and her upbringing. As she goes off to college, enters the workforce, etc., her worldview may change as she gains relationships, intelligence and wisdom.
I'm 52. My thoughts on topics like gender identity, gay marriage, etc. have evolved quite a bit over the last 30 years. Just because she has racist thoughts (and posts about them) now doesn't mean that will be how she thinks in 5, 10 or 30 years from now.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 02, 2020, 10:57:45 AM
Maybe. I don't think being racist is either a checkbox of yes and no, but there are various degrees depending on your experience and your worldview. She's 18. Her worldview is undoubtedly primarily shaped by her parents and her upbringing. As she goes off to college, enters the workforce, etc., her worldview may change as she gains relationships, intelligence and wisdom.
I'm 52. My thoughts on topics like gender identity, gay marriage, etc. have evolved quite a bit over the last 30 years. Just because she has racist thoughts (and posts about them) now doesn't mean that will be how she thinks in 5, 10 or 30 years from now.
Dammit, pontiff, I'm starting to agree with you more and more.
Thanks for staying rational with so many others going off the deep end.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 02, 2020, 10:57:45 AM
Maybe. I don't think being racist is either a checkbox of yes and no, but there are various degrees depending on your experience and your worldview. She's 18. Her worldview is undoubtedly primarily shaped by her parents and her upbringing. As she goes off to college, enters the workforce, etc., her worldview may change as she gains relationships, intelligence and wisdom.
I'm 52. My thoughts on topics like gender identity, gay marriage, etc. have evolved quite a bit over the last 30 years. Just because she has racist thoughts (and posts about them) now doesn't mean that will be how she thinks in 5, 10 or 30 years from now.
Extremely reasonable, and I agree.
I'm not sad that our alma mater gave her the boot because we need to draw the line somewhere, but I'm not rooting for her life to be ruined. I've always been a huge advocate of second chances (and even third and fourth chances, depending upon the severity of what we're talking about). I hope her views evolve, just as you say.
Quote from: MU82 on June 02, 2020, 11:24:01 AM
Extremely reasonable, and I agree.
I'm not sad that our alma mater gave her the boot because we need to draw the line somewhere, but I'm not rooting for her life to be ruined. I've always been a huge advocate of second chances (and even third and fourth chances, depending upon the severity of what we're talking about). I hope her views evolve, just as you say.
I get why MU had to do what they did. But for me, living on campus was instrumental in expanding what had been a very narrow worldview. You encounter so many varying viewpoints and backgrounds, and see the effects of the injustices on people of color every day. That type of experience could have really helped her.
It's a sad to see someone so young have that type of mindset. Hopefully she finds a situation where she can grow from it.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 02, 2020, 10:57:45 AM
Maybe. I don't think being racist is either a checkbox of yes and no, but there are various degrees depending on your experience and your worldview. She's 18. Her worldview is undoubtedly primarily shaped by her parents and her upbringing. As she goes off to college, enters the workforce, etc., her worldview may change as she gains relationships, intelligence and wisdom.
I'm 52. My thoughts on topics like gender identity, gay marriage, etc. have evolved quite a bit over the last 30 years. Just because she has racist thoughts (and posts about them) now doesn't mean that will be how she thinks in 5, 10 or 30 years from now.
Wow. I had this conversation with my teenage daughters last night. They were referencing what some other teenager they knew said (similar to the MU Lacrosse player here). And I reminded them that teenagers say and do a lot of stupid crap because really they don't understand what is being said or know any better. Indicated that I probably made equally dumb statements as a teenager because I honestly didn't know what it meant that I was saying. Turned 50 last year and thank God my thoughts evolved also.
Quote from: vogue65 on June 02, 2020, 10:32:43 AM
Just my take but I think social media is highly overrated.
Colin Kaepernick was all over the media and social media as well and was a lone voice in the wilderness.
I am proud of M.U., and the Jesuits.
The Commandant of the Marine Corps, Gen. Berger, has ordered the removal from the force all Neo-Natzis. Leadership starts at the top, not on social media.
Just my view, not trying to be argumentative.
I understand the thinking that social media is all powerful.
As true leaders stand up we will see social media as a fad.
I'm not trying to be argumentative either.
It is known that YouTube's algorithm actually sends you towards right leaning voices and if you keep going eventually alt right and then farther and farther you go till your in racist land. Fact check: it used to but in 2019 they implemented a change to the system. Twitter gives voices to people who otherwise didn't and Facebook allows virtual congregation of these views.
Colin was hardly alone, he's the only one that was made an example of but loads of other kneeled as well.
I am proud of our university's action on this especially as they've blundered so many others during my 11yrs affiliated with MU.
Leadership does start at the top for adults. Not exactly with teenagers, they're much more easily swayed by peers and social media.
Regarding social media, I could understand that back in 2004 with MySpace and Friendster but it's been 16yrs and it's exploded and changed everything from marketing, data collection, gaming, etc etc etc. unfortunately it's not a fad anymore than saying the internet was a fad. That being said I deleted all social media outside of snapchat and it feels great.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 02, 2020, 12:13:22 PM
I'm not trying to be argumentative either. It is known that YouTube's algorithm actually sends you towards right leaning voices and if you keep going eventually alt right and then farther and farther you go till your in racist land. Twitter gives voices to people who otherwise didn't and Facebook allows virtual congregation of these views.
Source? Google is right leaning? Or google wants people to "find" the alt-right? (For you literal types, you know google owns youtube.)
(https://s3-prod.adage.com/s3fs-public/styles/width_1024/public/alex_jones_08062018b.jpg)
People need to go for a walk or something. The clouds of stupidity are getting thick in the folks' basement.
Quote from: MU82 on June 02, 2020, 11:24:01 AM
Extremely reasonable, and I agree.
I'm not sad that our alma mater gave her the boot because we need to draw the line somewhere, but I'm not rooting for her life to be ruined. I've always been a huge advocate of second chances (and even third and fourth chances, depending upon the severity of what we're talking about). I hope her views evolve, just as you say.
I think Marquette made the right choice.
She might be a good fit for that school in Madison.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on June 02, 2020, 12:19:04 PM
Source? Google is right leaning? Or google wants people to "find" the alt-right? (For you literal types, you know google owns youtube.)
(https://s3-prod.adage.com/s3fs-public/styles/width_1024/public/alex_jones_08062018b.jpg)
People need to go for a walk or something. The clouds of stupidity are getting thick in the folks' basement.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/2020/01/29/276000/a-study-of-youtube-comments-shows-how-its-turning-people-onto-the-alt-right/amp/
https://datasociety.net/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/DS_Alternative_Influence.pdf
https://medium.com/@MediaManipulation/unite-the-right-how-youtubes-recommendation-algorithm-connects-the-u-s-far-right-9f1387ccfabd
What I did not know was that they put in a change last year to prevent the system from recommending these videos
https://digitalsocialcontract.net/youtube-stops-recommending-alt-right-videos-6523ed6af60f?gi=3a04aa8ede3c
So in essence I was correct circa 2018 which is when I was in grad school learning about data ethics. Just didn't know about the change.
Quote from: Greggery Peccary on June 02, 2020, 12:47:26 PM
She might be a good fit for that school in Madison.
https://edgewoodcollegeeagles.com/news/2019/7/2/general-edgewood-college-to-add-mens-and-womens-lacrosse.aspx
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 02, 2020, 10:57:45 AM
Maybe. I don't think being racist is either a checkbox of yes and no, but there are various degrees depending on your experience and your worldview. She's 18. Her worldview is undoubtedly primarily shaped by her parents and her upbringing. As she goes off to college, enters the workforce, etc., her worldview may change as she gains relationships, intelligence and wisdom.
I'm 52. My thoughts on topics like gender identity, gay marriage, etc. have evolved quite a bit over the last 30 years. Just because she has racist thoughts (and posts about them) now doesn't mean that will be how she thinks in 5, 10 or 30 years from now.
Well said.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 02, 2020, 10:51:16 AM
Anyone who thinks social media is "just a fad," doesn't really understand social media.
Or hasn't seen enough fads come and go. It is great for high school girls, but a waste of time for adults.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 02, 2020, 12:13:22 PM
I'm not trying to be argumentative either. It is known that YouTube's algorithm actually sends you towards right leaning voices and if you keep going eventually alt right and then farther and farther you go till your in racist land. Twitter gives voices to people who otherwise didn't and Facebook allows virtual congregation of these views.
Colin was hardly alone, he's the only one that was made an example of but loads of other kneeled as well.
I am proud of our university's action on this especially as they've blundered so many others during my 11yrs affiliated with MU.
Leadership does start at the top for adults. Not exactly with teenagers, they're much more easily swayed by peers and social media.
Regarding social media, I could understand that back in 2004 with MySpace and Friendster but it's been 16yrs and it's exploded and changed everything from marketing, data collection, gaming, etc etc etc. unfortunately it's not a fad anymore than saying the internet was a fad. That being said I deleted all social media outside of snapchat and it feels great.
So our country is being run by teenagers?
Quote from: vogue65 on June 02, 2020, 02:26:49 PM
So our country is being run by teenagers?
Too easy of a set up for a joke
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 02, 2020, 12:13:22 PM
I'm not trying to be argumentative either. It is known that YouTube's algorithm actually sends you towards right leaning voices and if you keep going eventually alt right and then farther and farther you go till your in racist land. Twitter gives voices to people who otherwise didn't and Facebook allows virtual congregation of these views.
Colin was hardly alone, he's the only one that was made an example of but loads of other kneeled as well.
I am proud of our university's action on this especially as they've blundered so many others during my 11yrs affiliated with MU.
Leadership does start at the top for adults. Not exactly with teenagers, they're much more easily swayed by peers and social media.
Regarding social media, I could understand that back in 2004 with MySpace and Friendster but it's been 16yrs and it's exploded and changed everything from marketing, data collection, gaming, etc etc etc. unfortunately it's not a fad anymore than saying the internet was a fad. That being said I deleted all social media outside of snapchat and it feels great.
The source for a lot of my information is, "The Defense News Early Bird Brief".
It is a news complier. It gives a wide prospective of what is going on. To be a few weeks ahead of the news, I also recommend the Christian Science Monitor.
Lots of people think they have all the answers at 18. They are usually wrong. I hope this young person is able to outgrow their youthful mistakes.
Quote from: tower912 on June 02, 2020, 02:34:56 PM
Lots of people think they have all the answers at 18. They are usually wrong. I hope this young person is able to outgrow their youthful mistakes.
Edward Bernays, father of Public Relations, from a Journalism course at M.U..
Now we live in a world of high tec. Public Information, run by kids and nefarious dark sites.
Nothing new under the sun except the speed of rumors.
Back in the day we had gossip columnists, now everyone can become a columnist on social media.
When people realize the waste of time social media demands it will fade as just another fad.
In the meantime enjoy wasting your time.
Today I called a former coworker and had a great one on one phone conversation, almost like being in person.
It can't compare with social media with strangers.
Quote from: vogue65 on June 02, 2020, 02:25:10 PM
Or hasn't seen enough fads come and go. It is great for high school girls, but a waste of time for adults.
Do you ever just admit you aren't informed or experienced enough in something and let it go? Or just stick to being the end all be all condescending knowledge source?
Pretending that social media is a pet rock or the Atkins diet is just pure willful ignorance of something that has been around for nearly 20 years and continues to develop, grow, and impact the way people consume news, information, video clips, and interact with one another. It has its ugly points and perspective needs to be taken, but calling it a fad is laughable.
Quote from: vogue65 on June 02, 2020, 02:26:49 PM
So our country is being run by teenagers?
As Wags says, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how people consume and share information these days. I mean, how do you think people push out breaking news these days? Email? TV? Smoke signals?
No, it almost always goes out via Twitter. And Facebook. And Instagram. And it quickly is shared and talked about long before it gets up onto a website or onto traditional media like television. And hours before it goes out in print anywhere.
Saying that it's a fad, or best left for teenage girls, is a woefully ignorant statement.
Quote from: JWags85 on June 02, 2020, 02:52:09 PM
Do you ever just admit you aren't informed or experienced enough in something and let it go? Or just stick to being the end all be all condescending knowledge source?
Pretending that social media is a pet rock or the Atkins diet is just pure willful ignorance of something that has been around for nearly 20 years and continues to develop, grow, and impact the way people consume news, information, video clips, and interact with one another. It has its ugly points and perspective needs to be taken, but calling it a fad is laughable.
Who are you to tell me to "let it go"? Why don't you let it go?
I have thought about being condescending.
You are welcome to your experiences and body of knowledge, and I'm welcome to mine. Am I condesending or are some people just trying to control others? Mocking, shunning, intimidating, I've seen it all.
I have no problem with people believing whatever they want, I call it tolerance. Is tolerance now classified as condescending?
What do I do with people who have limited experiences, education, inteligence, or knowledge? What do I do with people who lack creativity and curiosity?
You are not the first or only person to have problems with me. I've been called many things, trouble maker, know it all,
and now, thanks to you, condesending. It is what it is, get over it.
Quote from: vogue65 on June 02, 2020, 02:25:10 PM
Or hasn't seen enough fads come and go. It is great for high school girls, but a waste of time for adults.
My father-in-law admits that way back in the day he said color TV was a fad. I'd put this prognostication on par with that one.
Quote from: TSmith34 on June 02, 2020, 03:07:25 PM
My father-in-law admits that way back in the day he said color TV was a fad. I'd put this prognostication on par with that one.
You can find all sorts of articles calling the internet a fad back in the 90s.
Quote from: vogue65 on June 02, 2020, 02:34:11 PM
The source for a lot of my information is, "The Defense News Early Bird Brief".
It is a news complier. It gives a wide prospective of what is going on. To be a few weeks ahead of the news, I also recommend the Christian Science Monitor.
Appreciate your recommendations. Did I make it seem like I was questioning your sources for information though? I apologize if that's the case I only questioned your belief of social media being a fad and the belief that teens will always fall in line because there's strong adults.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 02, 2020, 03:19:58 PM
Appreciate your recommendations. Did I make it seem like I was questioning your sources for information though? I apologize if that's the case I only questioned your belief of social media being a fad and the belief that teens will always fall in line because there's strong adults.
Thanks for the opportunity to share the Defense Daily Brief, formerly The Early Bird. It is shocking how little we know, while frequently holding so many beliefs. Never have a problem responding to a sincere question about sources.
Teens mostly talk with teens. Why adults spend so much time on social media seems strange to me. I don't have enough time to keep up with real media, and I'm retired.
While I write I listen to Julie Mason, Press Pool on SERIUS radio. I'm not a luddite, but I'm not impressed with change for the sake of change.
No loss. Talk about stoopid!
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 02, 2020, 03:00:16 PM
As Wags says, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of how people consume and share information these days. I mean, how do you think people push out breaking news these days? Email? TV? Smoke signals?
No, it almost always goes out via Twitter. And Facebook. And Instagram. And it quickly is shared and talked about long before it gets up onto a website or onto traditional media like television. And hours before it goes out in print anywhere.
Saying that it's a fad, or best left for teenage girls, is a woefully ignorant statement.
It may be "woefully ignorant", but is it true?
Please give me a reason why I should spend my time searching amature news, propagandists, and foreign misinformation shops?
Yesterday I watched hours of junk videos. Dark images, swish pans, sky, smoke, flash bangs, crowds, horses, and repeated video of teenagers stealing footware. Most of that was by "professional" media.
I'm not saying that amature news isn't a large phenomenon, I'm just saying that most of it is a waste of time. When people realize that, it will fade away. That makes it a fad by definition.
Quote from: vogue65 on June 02, 2020, 04:00:30 PM
It may be "woefully ignorant", but is it true?
Please give me a reason why I should spend my time searching amature news, propagandists, and foreign misinformation shops?
Yesterday I watched hours of junk videos. Dark images, swish pans, sky, smoke, flash bangs, crowds, horses, and repeated video of teenagers stealing footware. Most of that was by "professional" media.
I'm not saying that amature news isn't a large phenomenon, I'm just saying that most of it is a waste of time. When people realize that, it will fade away. That makes it a fad by definition.
Again I deleted all social media but I will say it's great for finding local businesses/events in your area and staying connected to them. Beyond that it's worthless but worthless and addicting are different than a fad.
Quote from: vogue65 on June 02, 2020, 04:00:30 PM
It may be "woefully ignorant", but is it true?
Please give me a reason why I should spend my time searching amature news, propagandists, and foreign misinformation shops?
Yesterday I watched hours of junk videos. Dark images, swish pans, sky, smoke, flash bangs, crowds, horses, and repeated video of teenagers stealing footware. Most of that was by "professional" media.
I'm not saying that amature news isn't a large phenomenon, I'm just saying that most of it is a waste of time. When people realize that, it will fade away. That makes it a fad by definition.
You can do what you want to do. I really don't care. (Maybe learning how to spell "amateur" would be a place to start.)
But what you are saying about social media is the same thing people were saying about the internet in the mid-90s. It didn't go away. Neither will social media. It may evolve into something similar, and the specific vehicles may change, but it's here to stay.
First the plane crashes and social media has visuals.
Then the rumors about the casualty count, weather, probable cause, blah, blah, blah.
Then the legitimate journalist's do their thing.
Then automation recreation of the accident.
Then a story about the pilot's experience and plane maintenance etc..
Then the black box story from legitimate news.
Then nothing for a long time.
Then the story about the legal suits.
Then nothing for a year.
Then in a few industry media the official TSB report.
So explain the importance of the "social media"?
Don't waste my time. That sounds a little personal, sorry. Social media is first on the scene, but that is not that important.
Quote from: vogue65 on June 02, 2020, 04:11:39 PM
First the plane crashes and social media has visuals.
Then the rumors about the casualty count, weather, probable cause, blah, blah, blah.
Then the legitimate journalist's do their thing.
Then automation recreation of the accident.
Then a story about the pilot's experience and plane maintenance etc..
Then the black box story from legitimate news.
Then nothing for a long time.
Then the story about the legal suits.
Then nothing for a year.
Then in a few industry media the official TSB report.
So explain the importance of the "social media"?
Don't waste my time. That sounds a little personal, sorry. Social media is first on the scene, but that is not that important.
Wags talked about it above. I'm not going to waste your time. If you don't want to consume it...don't. Others do and it's not going away.
Quote from: vogue65 on June 02, 2020, 04:11:39 PM
Don't waste my time.
You've posted 30+ times since Saturday and 10 times in the last 8 hours, often repeating yourself over and over again, so it would appear you have a lot of time to waste. 8-)
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 02, 2020, 04:05:32 PM
You can do what you want to do. I really don't care. (Maybe learning how to spell "amateur" would be a place to start.)
But what you are saying about social media is the same thing people were saying about the internet in the mid-90s. It didn't go away. Neither will social media. It may evolve into something similar, and the specific vehicles may change, but it's here to stay.
You sound like a lawyer. Find a mistake, a date, a lack of a signature, and avoid the point. Thank God I don't have to work with them these days.
The internet is functioning very, very well with the research surrounding Covid19. It was developed for scientists to communicate world wide (world wide web, www). Also for defense.
Now, because of all the platforms, we have peole using it for nonsense. Hay, spend your life, your time as you wish, "I really don't care" either.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 02, 2020, 04:15:42 PM
Wags talked about it above. I'm not going to waste your time. If you don't want to consume it...don't. Others do and it's not going away.
Who said it's going away? Not unlike click bate, someone is doing it. Professional wrestling is not going away. There is a lot of entertainment that is not going away. There I go again being condescending.
Quote from: vogue65 on June 02, 2020, 04:11:39 PM
First the plane crashes and social media has visuals.
Then the rumors about the casualty count, weather, probable cause, blah, blah, blah.
Then the legitimate journalist's do their thing.
Then automation recreation of the accident.
Then a story about the pilot's experience and plane maintenance etc..
Then the black box story from legitimate news.
Then nothing for a long time.
Then the story about the legal suits.
Then nothing for a year.
Then in a few industry media the official TSB report.
So explain the importance of the "social media"?
Don't waste my time. That sounds a little personal, sorry. Social media is first on the scene, but that is not that important.
As a consumer, I would watch the visuals on social media. I probably wouldn't follow the story after that. So what was the importance of "traditional media"?
If it was a story I was more invested in, I probably would follow the coverage via traditional media. But those stories a very few compared to the stories that I might be interested enough to hear about but not follow. I think that mindset applies to most people in my generation and the younger generations, as well as many in the older generations.
Also, news isn't the only value that social media brings. As Galway pointed out, its great for advertising businesses. I have literally never read a review of a restaurant in the newspaper and I can't think of a time where a television or radio ad actually convinced me to go to a specific restaurant. But anytime I'm thinking about going to a new restaurant, or if I'm looking for a place to eat in a new city, I look at the reviews posted on the restaurant's social media accounts.
If "being a waste of time" makes something a fad then I can think of a lot fads that have withstood the test of time. Watching sports, video games, television, reading for fun, music, hiking, drinking socially....list goes on and on
Quote from: vogue65 on June 02, 2020, 04:27:24 PM
Who said it's going away?
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/fad?s=t
fad[ fad ]
noun
1. a
temporary fashion, notion, manner of conduct, etc., especially one followed enthusiastically by a group.
If you believe social media is waste of time, bad for humanity, etc, I don't think anyone would argue with you. I think what people are reacting to is your use of the word fad. By definition, a fad is something temporary that fades away after a short time. I think most people believe that social media is here to stay for the long haul
Quote from: MU82 on June 02, 2020, 04:19:07 PM
You've posted 30+ times since Saturday and 10 times in the last 8 hours, often repeating yourself over and over again, so it would appear you have a lot of time to waste. 8-)
Glad to see you are keeping track. Are you OCD? Or is that just another form of intimidation?
Are you the monitor?
I'm not qualified?
I am guilty of a lot of things, but repeating myself is not one of them.
My defect is my creativity, hard to fit into corporate Ametica. As a retired person I can be myself. Don't smoke or drink, keep your numbers under control, and someday enjoy your retirement.
Quote from: vogue65 on June 02, 2020, 04:27:24 PM
Who said it's going away?
Uhh....you did.
Quote from: vogue65 on June 02, 2020, 04:00:30 PM
When people realize that, it will fade away. That makes it a fad by definition.
Quote from: vogue65 on June 02, 2020, 04:27:24 PM
Who said it's going away? Not unlike click bate, someone is doing it. Professional wrestling is not going away. There is a lot of entertainment that is not going away. There I go again being condescending.
Have you ever met muguru?
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 02, 2020, 04:34:26 PM
Uhh....you did.
Oh boy, you got me, shoot me.
There are fads and there are fads. Going away vs. slowly going away, vs. completly going away, vs. growing, found useful, contributing to society.
Look at architectural fads, they come and go and we still mostly live in houses.
Cathederal ceilings, island kitchens, sunken living rooms, pools, vinyl siding all fads. Central air, generators, ice in the door, bells and whistles. How about glass block, one of my favorites.
Social media vs. real media by real journalists. Somehow we got off into the internet vs. social media.
How many posts is that? Sarcasm, another failing.
Quote from: Uncle Rico on June 02, 2020, 04:46:41 PM
Have you ever met muguru?
No, most of my M.U. friends have passed. My freshmen and senior roommates, my girl friend, 3 years, my best friend, all passed.
Muguru is a familiar name, to be honest I have never met any of you guys. The mid 60's seems like a long time ago.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on June 02, 2020, 04:30:32 PM
https://www.dictionary.com/browse/fad?s=t
fad[ fad ]
noun
1. a temporary fashion, notion, manner of conduct, etc., especially one followed enthusiastically by a group.
If you believe social media is waste of time, bad for humanity, etc, I don't think anyone would argue with you. I think what people are reacting to is your use of the word fad. By definition, a fad is something temporary that fades away after a short time. I think most people believe that social media is here to stay for the long haul
Thank you.
What word do you suggest?
Quote from: vogue65 on June 02, 2020, 04:49:01 PM
Oh boy, you got me, shoot me.
There are fads and there are fads. Going away vs. slowly going away, vs. completly going away, vs. growing, found useful, contributing to society.
Look at architectural fads, they come and go and we still mostly live in houses.
Cathederal ceilings, island kitchens, sunken living rooms, pools, vinyl siding all fads. Central air, generators, ice in the door, bells and whistles. How about glass block, one of my favorites.
Social media vs. real media by real journalists. Somehow we got off into the internet vs. social media.
How many posts is that? Sarcasm, another failing.
Pretty sure central air is here to stay, kin. ;D
Um....in before the lock.
Quote from: real chili 83 on June 02, 2020, 07:43:39 PM
Um....in before the lock.
everyone knows that locks are a fad...duh, eyn'a?
Quote from: real chili 83 on June 02, 2020, 07:43:39 PM
Um....in before the lock.
Locking threads is such a pre-covid fad....
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on June 02, 2020, 05:16:59 PM
Pretty sure central air is here to stay, kin. ;D
One man's man's necessity is another man's fad.
I have a full house fan and ceiling fans in every room.
Remember C.B.radio?
Electric can openers?
Racket ball?
Cassettes?
Super-mini computers?
RIDGID calendars?
I'm glad I'll never have to look for a job and be found out as being VOGUE65 and really nuts.
At least we can have a laugh while Rome burns. Most of us take ourselves too seriously.
Quote from: vogue65 on June 02, 2020, 10:24:07 PM
One man's man's necessity is another man's fad.
I have a full house fan and ceiling fans in every room.
Remember C.B.radio?
Electric can openers?
Racket ball?
Cassettes?
Super-mini computers?
RIDGID calendars?
I'm glad I'll never have to look for a job and be found out as being VOGUE65 and really nuts.
At least we can have a laugh while Rome burns. Most of us take ourselves too seriously.
Dont forget quaaludes, floor vents in cars and hairy bushes.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on June 02, 2020, 10:26:32 PM
Dont forget quaaludes, floor vents in cars and hairy bushes.
That stuff is before my time.
Is Scoop a fad?
Quote from: MU82 on June 02, 2020, 11:34:36 PM
Is Scoop a fad?
Very interesting question.
What do you think?
I notice tremendous change of Scoop over the years.
Many of the high quality participants have drifted away.
The political charged crowd have mostly moved on.
For them, yes, Scoop was a fad. Good example of the concept.
The jury is out for long term sustainability.
People seem to love controversy.
17 year old girl makes dumb comments. So did Josh Hader. I understand MU's response, but this could have also been a chance to rehabilitate and guide her. Opportunity missed?
Maybe remove the scholarship for a year, require community service and other atonement. Seems particularly odd that someone who would be a racist to choose to attend MU and the school's surroundings. This leads me to believe she made dumb remarks, but like many her age has little grasp at their full context.
Quote from: WarriorDad on June 03, 2020, 09:03:41 AM
17 year old girl makes dumb comments. So did Josh Hader. I understand MU's response, but this could have also been a chance to rehabilitate and guide her. Opportunity missed?
Maybe remove the scholarship for a year, require community service and other atonement. Seems particularly odd that someone who would be a racist to choose to attend MU and the school's surroundings. This leads me to believe she made dumb remarks, but like many her age has little grasp at their full context.
Josh Hader's comments were 7 years old when they came up.
So you're going to go on record to say that anyone in this country that lives in an urban area or attends an urban college is without a doubt not racist? Yeah, I'm not buying that.
MU is white as hell why would it shock you that she chose it? I still remember the diversity speech freshman year and then looking around with my fellow OPRF grads wondering what minorities they were referring to when touting diversity
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 03, 2020, 09:08:30 AM
MU is white as hell why would it shock you that she chose it? I still remember the diversity speech freshman year and then looking around with my fellow OPRF grads wondering what minorities they were referring to when touting diversity
You grew up in a more diverse location. Marquette is a pretty diverse school for its type (private and Catholic) and location (Wisconsin)
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 03, 2020, 09:30:06 AM
You grew up in a more diverse location. Marquette is a pretty diverse school for its type (private and Catholic) and location (Wisconsin)
I guess that makes sense. But relative to his point I don't think it's diverse enough that it'd be shocking that she chose MU. the neighborhood angle makes more sense
According to MU's Black Student Council, just 4% of MU is black.
https://twitter.com/DeviShastri/status/1267976479985602560?s=19
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 03, 2020, 09:30:06 AM
You grew up in a more diverse location. Marquette is a pretty diverse school for its type (private and Catholic) and location (Wisconsin)
This seems like a stretch.
Quote from: shoothoops on June 03, 2020, 09:38:24 AM
According to MU's Black Student Council, just 4% of MU is black.
https://twitter.com/DeviShastri/status/1267976479985602560?s=19
This statement is a bit of a joke. Saying "despite being in the middle of a predominantly black city" has no bearing on the demographics of a private upper tier university. MPS is crap, my GF teaches at a MPS HS and is jaded from her experiences and doesn't even want to teach anymore due to it. Whether MU equitably recruits African American students from suburbs that have better High schools, or from upper tier city High Schools Is a different story but that statement from them implies they'd prefer to sacrifice a higher quality education to get a preference of local MPS kids who are valedictorians with GPAs in the mid 3s.
Edit: they still should go after those valedictorians with those GPAs but my point was an indictment of the education they're receiving. Heck I knew a girl at MU that was Hamilton's valedictorian and she nearly failed out at MU due to not being prepared for half the stuff that MU students were expected to know.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 03, 2020, 09:37:04 AM
I guess that makes sense. But relative to his point I don't think it's diverse enough that it'd be shocking that she chose MU. the neighborhood angle makes more sense
Yeah I agree with you here.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 03, 2020, 09:50:03 AM
In what way?
In the way the MU has a smaller African American population % than the state of Wisconsin, and that it is not even close to representing the diversity within the US Catholic community.
In whatever way you can claim MU is diverse, it would have to come with many qualifiers. Which probably means it isn't very diverse.
Quote from: buckchuckler on June 03, 2020, 10:14:51 AM
In the way the MU has a smaller African American population % than the state of Wisconsin, and that it is not even close to representing the diversity within the US Catholic community.
In whatever way you can claim MU is diverse, it would have to come with many qualifiers. Which probably means it isn't very diverse.
I get that.
My frosh year I lived in O'Donnell, 2SE. I came back from winter break, and had to cross over to the other side of O'D to get my mail. On that side of the floor, there was a large sign an RA made that said "Welcome Back Guys!".
2 days later, I walked by it again on my way to grab mail, and noticed it had been changed. It now said "Welcome Black Guys!".
Quote from: shoothoops on June 03, 2020, 09:38:24 AM
According to MU's Black Student Council, just 4% of MU is black.
https://twitter.com/DeviShastri/status/1267976479985602560?s=19
That's really interesting. I went to Miami University, commonly joked about as J Crew U, which always felt like a very homogenous campus (something I didn't know would be a negative for me until midway through college). But the AA student percentage was usually around 5-6% when I was there. Didn't realize Marquette was that low
Quote from: shoothoops on June 03, 2020, 09:38:24 AM
According to MU's Black Student Council, just 4% of MU is black.
https://twitter.com/DeviShastri/status/1267976479985602560?s=19
29% of last year's freshman class were students of color.
https://www.marquette.edu/institutional-research-analysis/interactive-reports/freshman-dash.php
Quote from: MUDish on June 03, 2020, 10:52:36 AM
My frosh year I lived in O'Donnell, 2SE. I came back from winter break, and had to cross over to the other side of O'D to get my mail. On that side of the floor, there was a large sign an RA made that said "Welcome Back Guys!".
2 days later, I walked by it again on my way to grab mail, and noticed it had been changed. It now said "Welcome Black Guys!".
Why not just change the "u" to an "a?"
Quote from: warriorchick on June 03, 2020, 11:06:15 AM
29% of last year's freshman class were students of color.
https://www.marquette.edu/institutional-research-analysis/interactive-reports/freshman-dash.php
So that's latinx, Pacific Islander, middle eastern, East Asian, African/African American, Native American. I would like to see the breakout of that on the dashboard.
Quote from: warriorchick on June 03, 2020, 11:06:15 AM
29% of last year's freshman class were students of color.
https://www.marquette.edu/institutional-research-analysis/interactive-reports/freshman-dash.php
One could very reasonably say, MU falls in line with some of its league peers in this regard, w/Georgetown being a big exception. GU is a 50% white place vs 70% plus at MU and some of the others. The breakdowns very where Xavier will more than double the black population of MU but not so in other minority demographics, etc...
But I would prefer MU to lead from the front. My next example may be considered apples to oranges, but play along a bit to see the bigger point. Vanderbilt has become a dramatically more diverse play in a variety of ways, race, geography, etc...and, it has been intentional. Some of that came from its recent Chancellor Nick Zeppos, a Milwaukee native, and two degree Madison person. It's a 50% white place now, and its students are more evenly geographically distributed from all regions of the country.
I am linking a brief piece from 2014 from Tim Corbin, the baseball coach at Vandy. His approach is similar to some of the other non revenue sports there. For them, diversity is intentional. And, success came in the way of three appearances in College World Series Finals and two National Titles. His protege has been doing the same at Michigan, a Finalist last year. Racial, geographic, religious diversity, etc...is intentional, and prioritized.
https://vucommodores.com/diamond-diversity-tim-corbin-s-squad-contains-talent-from-all-backgrounds/
Another big thing that stands out for me is 73% from either Wisconsin or Illinois. That's a lot. I hope MU intentionally makes an effort to increase its geographic diversity as well.
I'm aware enough that these things are not of interest or importance to some. Hopefully these are important to MU.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 03, 2020, 11:22:51 AM
So that's latinx, Pacific Islander, middle eastern, East Asian, African/African American, Native American. I would like to see the breakout of that on the dashboard.
\
https://www.collegefactual.com/colleges/marquette-university/student-life/diversity/
On a side note, and I don't mean to offend anyone, I am trying to educate myself, why is the term Latinx necessary? I understand that Latino and Latina are not inclusive, but didn't the term Latin already exist as a term that didn't have a gender identity?
Quote from: shoothoops on June 03, 2020, 11:45:13 AM
One could very reasonably say, MU falls in line with some of its league peers in this regard, w/Georgetown being a big exception. GU is a 50% white place vs 70% plus at MU and some of the others. The breakdowns very where Xavier will more than double the black population of MU but not so in other minority demographics, etc...
But I would prefer MU to lead from the front. My next example may be considered apples to oranges, but play along a bit to see the bigger point. Vanderbilt has become a dramatically more diverse play in a variety of ways, race, geography, etc...and, it has been intentional. Some of that came from its recent Chancellor Nick Zeppos, a Milwaukee native, and two degree Madison person. It's a 50% white place now, and its students are more evenly geographically distributed from all regions of the country.
I am linking a brief piece from 2014 from Tim Corbin, the baseball coach at Vandy. His approach is similar to some of the other non revenue sports there. For them, diversity is intentional. And, success came in the way of three appearances in College World Series Finals and two National Titles. His protege has been doing the same at Michigan, a Finalist last year. Racial, geographic, religious diversity, etc...is intentional, and prioritized.
https://vucommodores.com/diamond-diversity-tim-corbin-s-squad-contains-talent-from-all-backgrounds/
Another big thing that stands out for me is 73% from either Wisconsin or Illinois. That's a lot. I hope MU intentionally makes an effort to increase its geographic diversity as well.
I'm aware enough that these things are not of interest or importance to some. Hopefully these are important to MU.
Depaul is another that is about 50% White.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 03, 2020, 11:22:51 AM
So that's latinx, Pacific Islander, middle eastern, East Asian, African/African American, Native American. I would like to see the breakout of that on the dashboard.
These designations are voluntarily reported. Mixed race individuals may fall under 2 or more or they may report under a specific ethnicity, depending on what they choose to report. In reports I've done we had mixed race siblings who reported differently. You also have students who report themselves as Hispanic and also white.
And what is "Latinax?"
Quote from: buckchuckler on June 03, 2020, 11:47:26 AM
Depaul is another that is about 50% White.
Yep. yes it is.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on June 03, 2020, 11:50:39 AM
These designations are voluntarily reported. Mixed race individuals may fall under 2 or more or they may report under a specific ethnicity, depending on what they choose to report. In reports I've done we had mixed race siblings who reported differently. You also have students who report themselves as Hispanic and also white.
And what is "Latinax?"
"Latinx" is just a gender-neutral way of saying of "Latino" or "Latina"
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on June 03, 2020, 11:50:39 AM
These designations are voluntarily reported. Mixed race individuals may fall under 2 or more or they may report under a specific ethnicity, depending on what they choose to report. In reports I've done we had mixed race siblings who reported differently. You also have students who report themselves as Hispanic and also white.
And what is "Latinax?"
My understanding is it's everybody from the central and South American countries as opposed to Hispanic which includes Spain or Latino which is just boys or Latina which is just girls
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on June 03, 2020, 11:50:39 AM
And what is "Latinax?"
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Latinx
QuoteLatinx adjective
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La·​tinx | \ primarily a written form ; often read as lə-ˈtē-ˌneks \
Definition of Latinx
: of, relating to, or marked by Latin American heritage —used as a gender-neutral alternative to Latino or Latina
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on June 03, 2020, 01:13:17 PM
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Latinx
I don't know that I had ever seen that term until Lovell's recent tweets. Thanks for the explanation.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on June 03, 2020, 01:13:17 PM
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Latinx
as liberal as I am there are areas where my eyes roll at "wokeness" and this is one of them (that and announcing one's pronouns). My wife has always referred to herself as "Filipina" and a fellow Fil-Am friend of hers (someone who is way, way too "woke") chastised her for not referring to herself as "Filipinax" and she didn't know what that was supposed to mean or why she was supposed to do that now.
I mean, it's just a gender-neutral term. I don't think you have to be terribly "woke" to use it.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on June 03, 2020, 01:29:25 PM
as liberal as I am there are areas where my eyes roll at "wokeness" and this is one of them (that and announcing one's pronouns). My wife has always referred to herself as "Filipina" and a fellow Fil-Am friend of hers (someone who is way, way too "woke") chastised her for not referring to herself as "Filipinax" and she didn't know what that was supposed to mean or why she was supposed to do that now.
That friend seems ridiculous. On a survey about ethnicity I get writing the gender neutral version.
Do you pronounce it Latin-X or lati-nex?
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 03, 2020, 01:34:02 PM
I mean, it's just a gender-neutral term. I don't think you have to be terribly "woke" to use it.
I asked before, but people may have missed it, is just Latin not an appropriate term?
Quote from: buckchuckler on June 03, 2020, 02:57:52 PM
I asked before, but people may have missed it, is just Latin not an appropriate term?
Latin usually refers to someone who is native to Latin America. Lantinx refers to people of Latin American heritage.
Quote from: buckchuckler on June 03, 2020, 02:57:52 PM
I asked before, but people may have missed it, is just Latin not an appropriate term?
That's already an ancient ethnicity in modern Italy. Maybe they wanted It separate.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 03, 2020, 03:02:09 PM
Latin usually refers to someone who is native to Latin America. Lantinx refers to people of Latin American heritage.
Or this, seems more likely.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 03, 2020, 03:02:09 PM
Latin usually refers to someone who is native to Latin America. Lantinx refers to people of Latin American heritage.
I don't think this is correct.
'Latin' likely isn't used because it can refer to the Latin peoples of Europe, e.g., Italy, Southern France, etc., i.e., people whose language comes directly from Latin.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on June 03, 2020, 01:29:25 PM
as liberal as I am there are areas where my eyes roll at "wokeness" and this is one of them (that and announcing one's pronouns).
I applaud you for publicly identifying an area where you can grow.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 02, 2020, 10:57:45 AM
Maybe. I don't think being racist is either a checkbox of yes and no, but there are various degrees depending on your experience and your worldview. She's 18. Her worldview is undoubtedly primarily shaped by her parents and her upbringing. As she goes off to college, enters the workforce, etc., her worldview may change as she gains relationships, intelligence and wisdom.
I'm 52. My thoughts on topics like gender identity, gay marriage, etc. have evolved quite a bit over the last 30 years. Just because she has racist thoughts (and posts about them) now doesn't mean that will be how she thinks in 5, 10 or 30 years from now.
Perhaps I'm about to get shot for this, but I'm not sure I agree with what the university did.
It's a two faceted argument. Yes, her comments were inappropriate, insulting and perceived to be racist. She was wrong for uttering them. As others have pointed out, putting comments like those the young woman made on social media is doubly absurd because they last forever.
Who among has not been offensive to others? Who among us has not uttered comments for which we will be held accountable at our final judgment (if not sooner)?
But part of going to college is learning and growing up. Part of what makes Marquette special is the ability to care for the person. Forgiveness is a virtue both our faith and our university advocate. In that vein, if the young woman recognizes she acted inappropriately, should we not be setting an example of forgiveness? That's the Jesuit way and last time I checked, Marquette is a Jesuit university.
Over the years, we've had people attend Marquette whose attitudes was truly un-Catholic and un-Christian. Yet as a community of diversity, we lead and we learn. By that, we grow and we discover right from wrong. Our exposure to people of different backgrounds, beliefs and cultures enlightens us. We have reinforced the concepts of consideration and inclusiveness.
Wherever the young woman ends up, I hope she learns and I trust her mistaken, offensive comments are a youthful indiscretion never to be repeated.
I get it, but an athletic scholarship is also a privledge. And the standard for earning and maintaining it should be high.
Quote from: dgies9156 on June 03, 2020, 04:18:02 PM
Wherever the young woman ends up, I hope she learns and I trust her mistaken, offensive comments are a youthful indiscretion never to be repeated.
Why would you think this? I hop you are correct and the comment was not reflective of who she is. But people that make racist comments overwhelmingly tend to be racist people.
It was dumb to post. Yes, I consider it racist. But I also acknowledge that there is the possibility of truth in what dgies said. Nearly all of us did something really dumb when we were in that age bracket. (Mine was voting for Reagan ;)). And nobody wants to be known for the worst mistakes they made at 18. I hope this turns out to be a growth opportunity for the young athlete involved.
Dgles they had every right to rescind the scholarship Kids have lost scholarships over a heck of a lot less. Now Regarding her enrollment You make some valid criticisms. I certainly am not happy she was doxed for the reasons you point out. Going to a catholic school is also a privilege, If MU feels that their mission is to educate and grow an individual then they should not have denied admission if they feel that those admitted should already have certain morals then I can understand denying admission
I love your tone, dgies, but I'll stick up for our alma mater here.
If she is intelligent and resourceful and hard-working, she can still have a great life.
That will be doubly so if she has a supportive family and if she is willing to evolve (to borrow a word others have used) into a well-rounded, open-minded person.
I don't blame MU at all for taking the stance it did. Actions have consequences, and every institution has to have red lines that can't be crossed. But I also believe in second chances, and I'm pretty sure she'll get one from some school somewhere.
Here's hoping she makes the most of it.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 03, 2020, 04:51:57 PM
Dgles they had every right to rescind the scholarship Kids have lost scholarships over a heck of a lot less. Now Regarding her enrollment You make some valid criticisms. I certainly am not happy she was doxed for the reasons you point out. Going to a catholic school is also a privilege, If MU feels that their mission is to educate and grow an individual then they should not have denied admission if they feel that those admitted should already have certain morals then I can understand denying admission
There is also the practical reason of it being a PR nightmare to let her show up on campus in the Fall. And would she have had any teammates of color? How is that going to affect team cohesiveness? What about her African American floormates and classmates?
Rescinding her acceptance and scholarship offer was the only real option MU had. Having said that, if they tell her that they will give her an opportunity in the next year to demonstrate her remorse and change of heart and take another look at her for 21-22, I could support that.
Quote from: warriorchick on June 03, 2020, 05:09:16 PM
There is also the practical reason of it being a PR nightmare to let her show up on campus in the Fall. And would she have had any teammates of color? How is that going to affect team cohesiveness? What about her African American floormates and classmates?
Rescinding her acceptance and scholarship offer was the only real option MU had. Having said that, if they tell her that they will give her an opportunity in the next year to demonstrate her remorse and change of heart and take another look at her for 21-22, I could support that.
Well said. I could get behind your proposal.
Quote from: wadesworld on June 03, 2020, 09:06:17 AM
Josh Hader's comments were 7 years old when they came up.
So you're going to go on record to say that anyone in this country that lives in an urban area or attends an urban college is without a doubt not racist? Yeah, I'm not buying that.
Isn't that because people didn't search comments like they do today? That was the reason for the delay.
No, I would not go on record to make that comment. There are people of all walks of life in every part of this country. However, i tend to doubt if she was racist she would go to MU because of the surrounding area. For the same reason I have very liberal friends who will not step foot in Texas and co set stove friends who won't watch movies with specific actors in them. She said some dumb things and is paying a heavy price. I expected maybe a little more compassion and guidance from Marquette. A chance to really set her straight while also causing the pain of punishment she deserved. Their call, I am fine with it either way.
Quote from: WarriorDad on June 03, 2020, 07:53:01 PM
Isn't that because people didn't search comments like they do today? That was the reason for the delay.
No, I would not go on record to make that comment. There are people of all walks of life in every part of this country. However, i tend to doubt if she was racist she would go to MU because of the surrounding area. For the same reason I have very liberal friends who will not step foot in Texas and co set stove friends who won't watch movies with specific actors in them. She said some dumb things and is paying a heavy price. I expected maybe a little more compassion and guidance from Marquette. A chance to really set her straight while also causing the pain of punishment she deserved. Their call, I am fine with it either way.
Your post incorrectly implies that there aren't any racists at Marquette. Every single poster here knew someone or some people, or perhaps several people that were racists at MU. Anyone who says otherwise is lying. Some just hide it better. I'm not even going to take the time to explain the varied specifics of Texas. Clearly you haven't spent much or any time there.
The Riverhead News-Review said the student, Leah Zenk, wrote a message on Snapchat to explain the post. A screenshot of the post was shared with the News-Review, and it read:
"What happened to Mr. Floyd is terrible. I never said it wasn't. What I wrote was worded poorly and then taken out of context. Kneeling on someone's neck and kneeling during the National Anthem are both disturbing. The fact that Mr. Floyd died is horrible. But it is equally horrible that our servicemen and women die every day protecting this country along with preserving the rights that allow people to kneel if they want to and then gets taken for granted. I am a PROUD PATRIOT. I will stand by my country and will apologize to no one for that. My deepest sympathies go out to the Floyd family and all the families whose lives have been turned upside down by what is happening in Minnesota."
https://riverheadnewsreview.timesreview.com/2020/06/100617/riverhead-seniors-college-admission-athletic-scholarship-rescinded-after-racist-social-media-post/
You're not helping yourself, Leah.
Mom and dad need to take away your iPhone.
Her and Drew Brees are hopefully learning that "Yeah but..." is never a good response when discussing racial discrimination/injustice.
Quote from: Mr. Nielsen on June 03, 2020, 09:00:41 PM
The Riverhead News-Review said the student, Leah Zenk, wrote a message on Snapchat to explain the post. A screenshot of the post was shared with the News-Review, and it read:
"What happened to Mr. Floyd is terrible. I never said it wasn't. What I wrote was worded poorly and then taken out of context. Kneeling on someone's neck and kneeling during the National Anthem are both disturbing. The fact that Mr. Floyd died is horrible. But it is equally horrible that our servicemen and women die every day protecting this country along with preserving the rights that allow people to kneel if they want to and then gets taken for granted. I am a PROUD PATRIOT. I will stand by my country and will apologize to no one for that. My deepest sympathies go out to the Floyd family and all the families whose lives have been turned upside down by what is happening in Minnesota."
https://riverheadnewsreview.timesreview.com/2020/06/100617/riverhead-seniors-college-admission-athletic-scholarship-rescinded-after-racist-social-media-post/
.....and she also posted Hispanic racial slurs in 2017.....
Quote from: shoothoops on June 03, 2020, 09:34:48 PM
.....and she also posted Hispanic racial slurs in 2017.....
How did MU not do their research on this person?
So essentially her point is People die every day preserving the right to kneel so when you utilize that right it's equally as disturbing as kneeling on someone's neck till they die?
Dude she should've stayed silent unless her plan is to play at Liberty
Quote from: wadesworld on June 03, 2020, 09:04:12 PM
Her and Drew Brees are hopefully learning that "Yeah but..." is never a good response when discussing racial discrimination/injustice.
Drew Brees?
Quote from: wadesworld on June 03, 2020, 09:46:52 PM
Yes. Drew Brees.
Sounded like he was talking about the flag and the national anthem.
Wow.
On the plus side ... when Ners gets into politics, she can be his publicist.
Quote from: warriorchick on June 03, 2020, 05:09:16 PM
There is also the practical reason of it being a PR nightmare to let her show up on campus in the Fall.
Jesus was a PR nightmare too.
He challenged the prevailing authority. He taught a philosophy that was highly contrarian at the time and was rejected by many in his homeland. He hung around with sinners and tax collectors. The dregs of society. Women who scripture strongly suggests sold themselves.
The question is who Marquette identifies with? It's easy to shroud ourselves in virtue and good and have the university do as the elders, chief priests and Romans did in Jesus' time -- cast him out and hope the problem goes away. Or, Marquette can practice Jesus' teaching, sit the young lady down, have her acknowledge she made a mistake and see if she's repentant. If she is, she should be welcomed her back the way Jesus did repentant sinners in his time.
Are we the Pharisees, who are proud of our virtue and wrap ourselves in it? Or are we true followers of Jesus, who practice forgiveness, repentance and inclusiveness. Sister Chick is right in her post elsewhere, there are many obstacles to doing this and the implication for integration with those the young woman offended is great. But We Are Marquette means something -- we don't tolerate racism but we also "forgive those who trespass against us."
Quote from: dgies9156 on June 03, 2020, 10:01:06 PM
Jesus was a PR nightmare too.
He challenged the prevailing authority. He taught a philosophy that was highly contrarian at the time and was rejected by many in his homeland. He hung around with sinners and tax collectors. The dregs of society. Women who scripture strongly suggests sold themselves.
The question is who Marquette identifies with? It's easy to shroud ourselves in virtue and good and have the university do as the elders, chief priests and Romans did in Jesus' time -- cast him out and hope the problem goes away. Or, Marquette can practice Jesus' teaching, sit the young lady down, have her acknowledge she made a mistake and see if she's repentant. If she is, she should be welcomed her back the way Jesus did repentant sinners in his time.
Are we the Pharisees, who are proud of our virtue and wrap ourselves in it? Or are we true followers of Jesus, who practice forgiveness, repentance and inclusiveness. Sister Chick is right in her post elsewhere, there are many obstacles to doing this and the implication for integration with those the young woman offended is great. But We Are Marquette means something -- we don't tolerate racism but we also "forgive those who trespass against us."
Sorry, Brother D, she wasn't Jesus. She was one of the people in the crowd shouting "Crucify Him!"
Quote from: shoothoops on June 03, 2020, 08:45:46 PM
Your post incorrectly implies that there aren't any racists at Marquette. Every single poster here knew someone or some people, or perhaps several people that were racists at MU. Anyone who says otherwise is lying. Some just hide it better. I'm not even going to take the time to explain the varied specifics of Texas. Clearly you haven't spent much or any time there.
You couldn't pay me to go to Texas, again. They are a separate country and act that way.
Quote from: dgies9156 on June 03, 2020, 10:01:06 PM
Jesus was a PR nightmare too.
He challenged the prevailing authority. He taught a philosophy that was highly contrarian at the time and was rejected by many in his homeland. He hung around with sinners and tax collectors. The dregs of society. Women who scripture strongly suggests sold themselves.
The question is who Marquette identifies with? It's easy to shroud ourselves in virtue and good and have the university do as the elders, chief priests and Romans did in Jesus' time -- cast him out and hope the problem goes away. Or, Marquette can practice Jesus' teaching, sit the young lady down, have her acknowledge she made a mistake and see if she's repentant. If she is, she should be welcomed her back the way Jesus did repentant sinners in his time.
Are we the Pharisees, who are proud of our virtue and wrap ourselves in it? Or are we true followers of Jesus, who practice forgiveness, repentance and inclusiveness. Sister Chick is right in her post elsewhere, there are many obstacles to doing this and the implication for integration with those the young woman offended is great. But We Are Marquette means something -- we don't tolerate racism but we also "forgive those who trespass against us."
She was offered the chance to apologize and show enlightenment, and, she doubled down. It has also come out that she is a repeat offender over a multi-year period.
Forgive doesn't mean forget. Let me know when she sits down and listens to Black and Hispanic people that can educate her. Let me know when she spends weekly time working with people in those communities to gain a better understanding and changed position. Then I will take a look down the road if and when that happens. In the mean time, perhaps read the quotes from her offended minority peers and teammates. Maybe walk in their shoes first.
Quote from: Mr. Nielsen on June 03, 2020, 09:48:39 PM
Sounded like he was talking about the flag and the national anthem.
Right. Drew was asked about the players taking a knee to stand against injustice in the country and Drew decided to talk about it being disrespectful to people who fight for the country.
Like I said, hopefully he's learning.
Quote from: dgies9156 on June 03, 2020, 10:01:06 PM
Jesus was a PR nightmare too.
He challenged the prevailing authority. He taught a philosophy that was highly contrarian at the time and was rejected by many in his homeland. He hung around with sinners and tax collectors. The dregs of society. Women who scripture strongly suggests sold themselves.
The question is who Marquette identifies with? It's easy to shroud ourselves in virtue and good and have the university do as the elders, chief priests and Romans did in Jesus' time -- cast him out and hope the problem goes away. Or, Marquette can practice Jesus' teaching, sit the young lady down, have her acknowledge she made a mistake and see if she's repentant. If she is, she should be welcomed her back the way Jesus did repentant sinners in his time.
Are we the Pharisees, who are proud of our virtue and wrap ourselves in it? Or are we true followers of Jesus, who practice forgiveness, repentance and inclusiveness. Sister Chick is right in her post elsewhere, there are many obstacles to doing this and the implication for integration with those the young woman offended is great. But We Are Marquette means something -- we don't tolerate racism but we also "forgive those who trespass against us."
A teenager offering bad racial takes on social media is very much Iike Jesus.
Wendell Pierce creates a thread and breaks it down for Drew Brees:
https://twitter.com/WendellPierce/status/1268310098553823233?s=19
Quote from: Pakuni on June 03, 2020, 09:04:01 PM
You're not helping yourself, Leah.
Mom and dad need to take away your iPhone.
She saw my "people that make racist comments overwhelmingly tend to be racist people" post and wanted to make sure all you guys knew I was right. ;)
Quote from: dgies9156 on June 03, 2020, 10:01:06 PM
Jesus was a PR nightmare too.
He challenged the prevailing authority. He taught a philosophy that was highly contrarian at the time and was rejected by many in his homeland. He hung around with sinners and tax collectors. The dregs of society. Women who scripture strongly suggests sold themselves.
The question is who Marquette identifies with? It's easy to shroud ourselves in virtue and good and have the university do as the elders, chief priests and Romans did in Jesus' time -- cast him out and hope the problem goes away. Or, Marquette can practice Jesus' teaching, sit the young lady down, have her acknowledge she made a mistake and see if she's repentant. If she is, she should be welcomed her back the way Jesus did repentant sinners in his time.
Are we the Pharisees, who are proud of our virtue and wrap ourselves in it? Or are we true followers of Jesus, who practice forgiveness, repentance and inclusiveness. Sister Chick is right in her post elsewhere, there are many obstacles to doing this and the implication for integration with those the young woman offended is great. But We Are Marquette means something -- we don't tolerate racism but we also "forgive those who trespass against us."
I'm glad my stupidities weren't in indelible ink, but so goes the times.
This is disturbing, not so much for the person, but for the reflection of who we are.
Marquette had no choice to reaffirm who we are due to the public nature of this ignorant proclamation.
Care for the person is not thrown away with this decision and I'm sure there are multiple ways to heal that wound Over time.
None of us are who we are at our worst (or best)
Why debate analogues, or semantics?
Why argue "What would Jesus do"?
Racism is not a subject for debate.
I/we don't associate with, try to educate, persuade or argue with racists or bigots.
Therefore, they are persona non grata, to be shunned.
Case closed, dog's dead.
I'm afraid ya'll don't get it.
This is not about condoning racism or a racist uttering. Not in the least.
It's about how a follower of Jesus' teachings, which is what Marquette purports to be, handles sinfulness and anger. Jesus taught us not to turn our back on sinfulness but to seek redemption through forgiveness.
That said, we're also trying to play like we're inside the woman's head. There's a fundamental difference between a racist uttering and racism. We've all done the former at one point or another, because we sin and make mistakes. But none of know whether this woman made a racist uttering or is a avowed and confirmed racist.
A racist uttering is a sign of racism. It does not, by itself, define you as a racist.
That, folks, is my point.
Quote from: dgies9156 on June 04, 2020, 08:55:10 AM
I'm afraid ya'll don't get it.
This is not about condoning racism or a racist uttering. Not in the least.
It's about how a follower of Jesus' teachings, which is what Marquette purports to be, handles sinfulness and anger. Jesus taught us not to turn our back on sinfulness but to seek redemption through forgiveness.
That said, we're also trying to play like we're inside the woman's head. There's a fundamental difference between a racist uttering and racism. We've all done the former at one point or another, because we sin and make mistakes. But none of know whether this woman made a racist uttering or is a avowed and confirmed racist.
A racist uttering is a sign of racism. It does not, by itself, define you as a racist.
That, folks, is my point.
I get it.
I also get why Marquette did what they did.
The world isn't full of easy, binary choices.
Quote from: dgies9156 on June 04, 2020, 08:55:10 AM
I'm afraid ya'll don't get it.
This is not about condoning racism or a racist uttering. Not in the least.
It's about how a follower of Jesus' teachings, which is what Marquette purports to be, handles sinfulness and anger. Jesus taught us not to turn our back on sinfulness but to seek redemption through forgiveness.
That said, we're also trying to play like we're inside the woman's head. There's a fundamental difference between a racist uttering and racism. We've all done the former at one point or another, because we sin and make mistakes. But none of know whether this woman made a racist uttering or is a avowed and confirmed racist.
A racist uttering is a sign of racism. It does not, by itself, define you as a racist.
That, folks, is my point.
None of your posts talk about the people she offended. Perhaps it would be helpful to begin showing empathy and compassion for those people first. Multiple posts, same topic, nothing.
And, this is not a one off, it is plural instances. Thus far in follow ups, she has shown little sign of understanding and remorse. It's quite ok to forgive the sinner. But sport participation is earned. Once she shows signs of earning it, I am fine with her continuing her lax career somewhere down the road.
Quote from: dgies9156 on June 04, 2020, 08:55:10 AM
I'm afraid ya'll don't get it.
This is not about condoning racism or a racist uttering. Not in the least.
It's about how a follower of Jesus' teachings, which is what Marquette purports to be, handles sinfulness and anger. Jesus taught us not to turn our back on sinfulness but to seek redemption through forgiveness.
Does it matter at all that this young woman has expressed no desire for forgiveness or redemption? Or even any recognition that her words were wrong and harmful?
Regardless, it's not Marquette's place to offer forgiveness. Marquette is not who she sinned against.
It is Marquette's place to offer all students a safe and welcoming environment. And the leadership has reasonably decided that someone who's openly espoused racist viewpoints on multiple occasions would be detrimental to a safe and welcoming environment.
If it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, sounds like a duck, then it is a duck.
From old Uncle Vogue.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 03, 2020, 10:23:33 PM
A teenager offering bad racial takes on social media is very much Iike Jesus.
I don't think dgies was saying the teenager was like Jesus. The point was how would Jesus (and how should those who claim to be his followers) react to this teenager?
For Vogue (and others) the proper reaction is judgement, condemnation and avoidance. For dgies, it's education, forgiveness and inclusion.
I'm with brother dgies on this one. As I see it, Jesus would be too.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 04, 2020, 11:21:22 AM
I don't think dgies was saying the teenager was like Jesus. The point was how would Jesus (and how should those who claim to be his followers) react to this teenager?
For Vogue (and others) the proper reaction is judgement, condemnation and avoidance. For dgies, it's education, forgiveness and inclusion.
I'm with brother dgies on this one. As I see it, Jesus would be too.
While you are likely right MU has to maintain good PR. Between the hiring and firing of a lesbian (provost?), the rape/sexual assult bungling, the assata Shakur mural, and the Law Professor Vs Grad student/TA issue they haven't been great with the whole PR thing. Being in higher education means sometimes you don't have the chance to do everything Jesus would've done and this is one of those times.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 04, 2020, 11:21:22 AM
I don't think dgies was saying the teenager was like Jesus. The point was how would Jesus (and how should those who claim to be his followers) react to this teenager?
For Vogue (and others) the proper reaction is judgement, condemnation and avoidance. For dgies, it's education, forgiveness and inclusion.
I'm with brother dgies on this one. As I see it, Jesus would be too.
Wasn't going to happen for a number of reasons.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 04, 2020, 11:21:22 AM
For Vogue (and others) the proper reaction is judgement, condemnation and avoidance. For dgies, it's education, forgiveness and inclusion.
I'm with brother dgies on this one. As I see it, Jesus would be too.
What about the education and inclusion of students who'd rather not be required to live, attend classes with and play team sports with a person who's unapologetically voiced racist sentiments?
Should Marquette ignore their needs in an effort to offer forgiveness and redemption to someone who's asked for neither?
Is the university's mission of providing a welcoming environment to ALL students somehow less important?
And where exactly does your theory on the university's need to extend forgiveness end?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 04, 2020, 11:21:22 AM
I don't think dgies was saying the teenager was like Jesus. The point was how would Jesus (and how should those who claim to be his followers) react to this teenager?
For Vogue (and others) the proper reaction is judgement, condemnation and avoidance. For dgies, it's education, forgiveness and inclusion.
I'm with brother dgies on this one. As I see it, Jesus would be too.
I am with you, Lenny, but only partially.
Any criminal who serves his mandated time should be able to re-start his life with a clean slate. I believe the same for this girl, even though her actions were morally reprehensible rather than criminal.
Where do we differ? She has done nothing to atone for her actions. She issued a statement which only seemed to double down on her original comments as well as earlier reported comments. Before everything is OK again, she needs to atone for her racist words. Issue a real apology. Perform service in the community to show she means what she says in her apology.
I say these things
ONLY in terms of her receiving a scholarship from MU. She can do what she wants in life and be whatever kind of racist creep she wants - but if she wants the privilege of attending MU, there are certain basic actions she has to take to wipe the slate clean.
Yeah, I am the last one to claim expertise on heaven and hell, but ... if you commit a sin and, rather than repent, you just keep repeating the sin, Jesus might "love" you because he loves everybody from jaywalkers to serial killers, but you probably ain't going to the place with the clouds and wings and halos.
Willing to be corrected on any of the above.
In this case, Marquette of course is heaven. No comment on whether she'll be condemned to Madison or South Bend.
We Are Marquette!
Quote from: shoothoops on June 03, 2020, 08:45:46 PM
Your post incorrectly implies that there aren't any racists at Marquette. Every single poster here knew someone or some people, or perhaps several people that were racists at MU. Anyone who says otherwise is lying. Some just hide it better. I'm not even going to take the time to explain the varied specifics of Texas. Clearly you haven't spent much or any time there.
Where did my post say or imply there are no racists at Marquette? I have spent far too many days in Texas for my liking. Between San Antonio, Houston, Dallas, Midland Odessa, El Paso, Austin and the various work projects over the years. I bet in some years I spent close to 2 or 3 months a year in Texas.
Quote from: MU82 on June 04, 2020, 01:28:35 PM
Yeah, I am the last one to claim expertise on heaven and hell, but ... if you commit a sin and, rather than repent, you just keep repeating the sin, Jesus might "love" you because he loves everybody from jaywalkers to serial killers, but you probably ain't going to the place with the clouds and wings and halos.
Willing to be corrected on any of the above.
In this case, Marquette of course is heaven. No comment on whether she'll be condemned to Madison or South Bend.
We Are Marquette!
Does Liberty have Women's Lacrosse? She would probably be welcomed with open arms and full scholarship there.
Quote from: Billy Hoyle on June 04, 2020, 05:21:35 PM
Does Liberty have Women's Lacrosse? She would probably be welcomed with open arms and full scholarship there.
I like the way you think.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 03, 2020, 09:42:14 PM
Dude she should've stayed silent unless her plan is to play at Liberty
And no it doesn't seem they do. Sure some super intense evangelical school has a D2 or D3 team
Hillsdale?
Quote from: Pakuni on June 04, 2020, 12:25:18 PM
What about the education and inclusion of students who'd rather not be required to live, attend classes with and play team sports with a person who's unapologetically voiced racist sentiments?
Should Marquette ignore their needs in an effort to offer forgiveness and redemption to someone who's asked for neither?
Is the university's mission of providing a welcoming environment to ALL students somehow less important?
And where exactly does your theory on the university's need to extend forgiveness end?
I'm old and don't understand or appreciate the concept that college should be a "safe space" experience. Protecting students from other students, teachers, guest speakers, etc., who espouse ideas that most of the student body find toxic is antithetical to what I think college should be about.
On my wing in Schroeder we had kids from cities, suburbs and small towns. Some had gone to boarding schools, some had never left their hometowns until Mom and Dad dropped them off on the campus. We all arrived with our biases and suspicions, typical know it all 17 and 18 year olds. Suspicions and biases turned to understanding and friendships fairly quickly. One learns a lot living with people with different backgrounds and biases.
Playing sports is a learning experience too. When I was at MU the basketball team had both inner city black kids and small town Wisconsin white kids on the roster. And some who literally fought with one another as freshmen later became friends for life.
I'm aware that social media makes this more complicated. People in my era didn't arrive on campus with a record of stupid or even racist statements they might have made. Where does my "theory" on the university's need to extend forgiveness end? It doesn't end. That doesn't mean that a university can't have rules and consequences for breaking them. Forgiveness doesn't mean no consequences. But it doesn't mean zero tolerance, either.
Just my opinion, but I think this is all about PR for the school. I would have preferred that her future teammates and classmates decide whether these were the rants of an inexperienced teenager or the intractable opinions of an avowed racist. Either way it could have been a valuable learning experience.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 04, 2020, 07:21:37 PM
I'm old and don't understand or appreciate the concept that college should be a "safe space" experience. Protecting students from other students, teachers, guest speakers, etc., who espouse ideas that most of the student body find toxic is antithetical to what I think college should be about.
On my wing in Schroeder we had kids from cities, suburbs and small towns. Some had gone to boarding schools, some had never left their hometowns until Mom and Dad dropped them off on the campus. We all arrived with our biases and suspicions, typical know it all 17 and 18 year olds. Suspicions and biases turned to understanding and friendships fairly quickly. One learns a lot living with people with different backgrounds and biases.
Playing sports is a learning experience too. When I was at MU the basketball team had both inner city black kids and small town Wisconsin white kids on the roster. And some who literally fought with one another as freshmen later became friends for life.
I'm aware that social media makes this more complicated. People in my era didn't arrive on campus with a record of stupid or even racist statements they might have made. Where does my "theory" on the university's need to extend forgiveness end? It doesn't end. That doesn't mean that a university can't have rules and consequences for breaking them. Forgiveness doesn't mean no consequences. But it doesn't mean zero tolerance, either.
Just my opinion, but I think this is all about PR for the school. I would have preferred that her future teammates and classmates decide whether these were the rants of an inexperienced teenager or the intractable opinions of an avowed racist. Either way it could have been a valuable learning experience.
She either meant it, or she didn't. Her scholly was yanked. You can't ask other girls to play on a team with her. It isn't their job to teach her to not have bigoted ideas. If the school allowed her to keep the scholarship, they'd be tacitly approving racism.
I don't think they said she can't come to school and learn, she'd just have to pay her own way.
And then instead of saying her thoughts were misguided, she doubled down like a child.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on June 04, 2020, 07:42:12 PM
She either meant it, or she didn't. Her scholly was yanked. You can't ask other girls to play on a team with her. It isn't their job to teach her to not have bigoted ideas. If the school allowed her to keep the scholarship, they'd be tacitly approving racism.
I don't think they said she can't come to school and learn, she'd just have to pay her own way.
And then instead of saying her thoughts were misguided, she doubled down like a child.
Wrong. Her acceptance as a student was rescinded as well.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 04, 2020, 07:21:37 PM
On my wing in Schroeder we had kids from cities, suburbs and small towns. Some had gone to boarding schools, some had never left their hometowns until Mom and Dad dropped them off on the campus. We all arrived with our biases and suspicions, typical know it all 17 and 18 year olds. Suspicions and biases turned to understanding and friendships fairly quickly. One learns a lot living with people with different backgrounds and biases.
If you think your experience is anything remotely similar to what many students of color face on college campuses now, you have a lot to learn. I have a lot to learn. The more I hear of their experiences, the dumber and more naive I feel.
Lots of Always and Nevers in this thread. Shallow thinking.
Dgies and Sultan with the spot on points today.
ROCK ON MILWAUKEE!!!
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 04, 2020, 08:12:40 PM
If you think your experience is anything remotely similar to what many students of color face on college campuses now, you have a lot to learn. I have a lot to learn. The more I hear of their experiences, the dumber and more naive I feel.
Fluff
I'll be the first to admit that times change and I have a lot to learn. I'm sure I'll never catch up.
But I don't think that my experiences (or yours) are invalid because you and I have a lot to learn. So do 18-22 year old students. So do their teachers and school administrators. I don't think college should be about students being comfortable or unchallenged. I think we short change our young people if that's our goal.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 04, 2020, 07:21:37 PM
I'm old and don't understand or appreciate the concept that college should be a "safe space" experience. Protecting students from other students, teachers, guest speakers, etc., who espouse ideas that most of the student body find toxic is antithetical to what I think college should be about.
Respect your feelings Lenny, but disagree very much with you passing this off as just another point of view we all should be exposed to.
She didn't express an unpopular view on a policy issue or post photos of herself wearing a MAGA cap. She justified the murder of a man at the hands of police because another man of the same race kneeled during the national anthem nearly four years ago. And then when given a chance to walk it back, she doubled down.
How does anyone on the Marquette campus benefit from that viewpoint being there?
How does a young black man or woman feel about Marquette University when it not only welcomes that got kind of viewpoint, but it awards a scholarship to someone with that viewpont?
I'm all for college kids being exposed to all different kinds of viewpoints on the issues of the day, presented and debated in a, preferably, respectful manner. But that's not what this is about.
Let her future classmates decide? Like, they're going to vote her off the island? Not sure public referenda is the best way to handle admissions and discipline.
👏👏👏👏
Quote from: Pakuni on June 04, 2020, 08:49:39 PM
Respect your feelings Lenny, but disagree very much with you passing this off as just another point of view we all should be exposed to.
She didn't express an unpopular view on a policy issue or post photos of herself wearing a MAGA cap. She justified the murder of a man at the hands of police because another man of the same race kneeled during the national anthem nearly four years ago. And then when given a chance to walk it back, she doubled down.
How does anyone on the Marquette campus benefit from that viewpoint being there?
How does a young black man or woman feel about Marquette University when it not only welcomes that got kind of viewpoint, but it awards a scholarship to someone with that viewpont?
I'm all for college kids being exposed to all different kinds of viewpoints on the issues of the day, presented and debated in a, preferably, respectful manner. But that's not what this is about.
Let her future classmates decide? Like, they're going to vote her off the island? Not sure public referenda is the best way to handle admissions and discipline.
Pakuni
I likewise respect your POV. I think what this young lady posted was reprehensible. But I think her age/limited life experiences mitigates the situation. My guess is she's parroting a wrongheaded world view held by a parent, relative, friend, etc.
Should Marquette judge her, humiliate her and give her (and whoever "mentors" her) permanent victim status or should MU loudly and clearly voice their disagreement with her statements while honoring its commitment? I would choose the latter. If she's a bad apple, she'll probably say no to MU because of the reprimand. If she elect to come to MU, she'll have to prove herself to some very suspicious teammates. Chance for growth and learning - and if she throws it away it's on her.
Racism is not okay, at any age. It's not okay in grade school, not okay in high school, not okay in college, not okay in young adulthood, not okay in middle age, not okay as a young or older senior. It's never okay. It isn't a different viewpoint. It's an unacceptable viewpoint anywhere, any time.
Quote from: shoothoops on June 04, 2020, 10:04:06 PM
Racism is not okay, at any age. It's not okay in grade school, not okay in high school, not okay in college, not okay in young adulthood, not okay in middle age, not okay as a young or older senior. It's never okay. It isn't a different viewpoint. It's an unacceptable viewpoint anywhere, any time.
Who said it was OK? Do words like reprehensible and ignorant mean OK to you?
Quote from: shoothoops on June 04, 2020, 10:04:06 PM
Racism is not okay, at any age. It's not okay in grade school, not okay in high school, not okay in college, not okay in young adulthood, not okay in middle age, not okay as a young or older senior. It's never okay. It isn't a different viewpoint. It's an unacceptable viewpoint anywhere, any time.
Always and never
Actions have consequences. A life lesson she's hopefully learning.
Quote from: real chili 83 on June 04, 2020, 10:11:32 PM
Always and never
Is your point that it's shallow thinking to believe racism is never ok?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 04, 2020, 10:00:16 PM
Pakuni
I likewise respect your POV. I think what this young lady posted was reprehensible. But I think her age/limited life experiences mitigates the situation. My guess is she's parroting a wrongheaded world view held by a parent, relative, friend, etc.
Should Marquette judge her, humiliate her and give her (and whoever "mentors" her) permanent victim status or should MU loudly and clearly voice their disagreement with her statements while honoring its commitment? I would choose the latter. If she's a bad apple, she'll probably say no to MU because of the reprimand. If she elect to come to MU, she'll have to prove herself to some very suspicious teammates. Chance for growth and learning - and if she throws it away it's on her.
I can get behind the not a safe space thinking. I can get behind MU could've lived up to a Christian teaching of forgiveness and growth. You lost me when you were still going to give her a scholarship to the lacrosse team. There's no reason to reward filthy behavior and I cannot figure out a reasoning for that one.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 04, 2020, 10:26:56 PM
Is your point that it's shallow thinking to believe racism is never ok?
Your comment makes my point.
Quote from: shoothoops on June 04, 2020, 10:04:06 PM
Racism is not okay, at any age. It's not okay in grade school, not okay in high school, not okay in college, not okay in young adulthood, not okay in middle age, not okay as a young or older senior. It's never okay. It isn't a different viewpoint. It's an unacceptable viewpoint anywhere, any time.
At what point in one's life are you truly a racist? Is Josh Hader a racist or did he say racist things as a teenager? There is a difference.
Let's do a hypothetical. A highly rated MU basketball recruit says it is ok for cops to be killed and calls a white cop that is killed In a peaceful protest a racial epithet that some might find offensive. Does MU revoke scholarship and admission? What if a MU recruit says offensive things about women? What about the gay community?
I have my doubts on where MU would handle this depending on who the recruit was and the target of the words.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 04, 2020, 10:29:24 PM
I can get behind the not a safe space thinking. I can get behind MU could've lived up to a Christian teaching of forgiveness and growth. You lost me when you were still going to give her a scholarship to the lacrosse team. There's no reason to reward filthy behavior and I cannot figure out a reasoning for that one.
Galway
The reward was due to lacrosse (and possibly classroom) excellence. Not rescinding it because of her posts doesn't condone her behavior. They could honor their commitment and still send her a reprimand that would put her on notice.
This young woman, in 2020, (and other years) posted racist online posts. There will be other incoming, current, past, students as well as other MU staff that are or were racist and "get away with it." That doesn't make being racist okay. We all have known racists at some point or another at Marquette. Did you confront them at the time? Condoning, enabling is not okay.
This young woman needs time, to listen, learn, and spend with Black and Hispanic people and demonstrate an educated changed, evolved, informed, empathetic viewpoint. Thus far she doesn't sound ready for that or interested in that. If and when she does, I am all for her moving forward with her college lax career somewhere after all of those things. But those things come first. Playing for MU doesn't come first.
Some people do change their racist views and some don't. I don't believe anyone is giving up on this person in life, or judging her forever about anything. That isn't the case. People can and do make mistakes. This is the type of.mistake that takes time and effort to overcome. It isn't good enough to say well forget all of the people you hurt with your comments and actions and come on down and join the team and we will make it all about you and your teaching moment and everyone else will have to put up with it. Posting those things made it about others. So many posts here are only about this prospective student and only her. I hope she turns it around. There are some good places/organizations with good people for her to try to do that.
Quote from: shoothoops on June 04, 2020, 10:42:26 PM
And you illustrated mine.
To help you, no, it's not. However, this is not simply a binary issue.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 01, 2020, 08:11:20 PM
Wow well she got her wish people "came at her"
Haha true. Hard lesson to learn in more ways than monetarily. Hopefully, this young lady can use this as an eye opening moment to reflect upon her youthful mistakes and grow as a person from this situation. Hopefully, it is a pivot point to making her a better and more thoughtful person.
Quote from: vogue65 on June 02, 2020, 08:42:09 AM
The problem is not so-called social media. The problem is fascist and racist beliefs.
What can adversely affect your life is not what you post, it is being a bigot in the first place.
You are correct. However, if i had a dollar for every time a teenager said something braggadocious, offensive, or ignorant with out truly understanding it or meaning it, i would have more money than Bezos. Problem is instead of her saying that to her friends in a small setting and them telling her she is being short sighted or even ignoring her she is posting it to the world and forever. Big difference. Do you still believe all the things you believed, good or bad, as a teenager?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 04, 2020, 08:49:08 PM
Fluff
I'll be the first to admit that times change and I have a lot to learn. I'm sure I'll never catch up.
But I don't think that my experiences (or yours) are invalid because you and I have a lot to learn. So do 18-22 year old students. So do their teachers and school administrators. I don't think college should be about students being comfortable or unchallenged. I think we short change our young people if that's our goal.
I didn't say your experience was invalid. Your experience was much different. I wholeheartedly agree that students should be challenged. Every student. However I think in many ways that isn't happening in a significant way for a many of our students. And that the burden for being challenged is falling mostly on the disadvantaged.
I mean, yeah I met a lot of people from different parts of the country and from various economic backgrounds at MU. But by and large they were all white, Christian, middle class and had parents that also went to college. Almost all of my professors looked like me. Sure there were multicultural students, and they were in my classes and I would see them in my residence hall or around campus. But I was never forced, or even encouraged, to see anything from their point of view.
And frankly I think that would have been helpful to me as a professional, a parent and as a person.
Quote from: tower912 on June 02, 2020, 02:34:56 PM
Lots of people think they have all the answers at 18. They are usually wrong. I hope this young person is able to outgrow their youthful mistakes.
+ a lot!!
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 03, 2020, 09:30:06 AM
You grew up in a more diverse location. Marquette is a pretty diverse school for its type (private and Catholic) and location (Wisconsin)
Most of your comments a truly stupid, this one is incredibly so. Insufferable.
Quote from: real chili 83 on June 04, 2020, 10:36:06 PM
Your comment makes my point.
My comment asking you to clarify your comment makes your point?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 04, 2020, 11:06:18 PM
Galway
The reward was due to lacrosse (and possibly classroom) excellence. Not rescinding it because of her posts doesn't condone her behavior. They could honor their commitment and still send her a reprimand that would put her on notice.
Yeah I'm going to disagree with you there. Lacrosse And scholarships Are Privileges that are entirely separate from the university's Christian mission. Also being an athlete at MU means that you're held to a certain standard, she doesn't meet that standard plain and simple. You did convince me about regular admission though.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on June 05, 2020, 07:44:05 AM
Most of your comments a truly stupid, this one is incredibly so. Insufferable.
Nice to see that you are as obsessed with me as your are MU82. It's a badge of honor.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 04, 2020, 10:00:16 PM
Should Marquette judge her, humiliate her and give her (and whoever "mentors" her) permanent victim status
Marquette went out of their way not to name her. She has apparently deleted her social media accounts. If she wants to be a permanent victim, that's on her. That's not Marquette's fault.
Quote from: Galway Eagle on June 05, 2020, 07:48:27 AM
Yeah I'm going to disagree with you there. Lacrosse And scholarships Are Privileges that are entirely separate from the university's Christian mission. Also being an athlete at MU means that you're held to a certain standard, she doesn't meet that standard plain and simple. You did convince me about regular admission though.
A lot of good points made here. Would MU continue to admit a regular student that had made the same comments? Would MU have been better off saying, they would revoke scholly and still help educate her in the Jesuit values? Was it a high profile opportunity for MU to advertise its values versus that of a state institution? Good arguments can be made on both sides.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 05, 2020, 07:49:04 AM
Nice to see that you are as obsessed with me as your are MU82. It's a badge of honor.
Ur ignorance is blaring, hard to avoid.
Dime a dozen tho, young, ignorant, unaccomplished, and half as smart as you think you are. However, Being loud and boastful doesnt make up for any of your deficiencies.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on June 05, 2020, 07:56:17 AM
Ur ignorance is blaring, hard to avoid.
Dime a dozen tho, young, ignorant, unaccomplished, and half as smart as you think you are. However, Being loud and boastful doesnt make up for any of your deficiencies.
I appreciate the fact you think I'm young.
You insult everyone because that's what unintelligent people do. So I wear it with a badge of honor.
This week, Xavier just did the same as Marquette for an incoming Cross Country & Track runner for making similar statements.
Quote from: Fluffy Blue Monster on June 05, 2020, 08:18:45 AM
I appreciate the fact you think I'm young.
You insult everyone because that's what unintelligent people do. So I wear it with a badge of honor.
U and 82 = everyone 👍👍
Thanks for affirming my previous remarks
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on June 05, 2020, 07:37:38 AM
You are correct. However, if i had a dollar for every time a teenager said something braggadocious, offensive, or ignorant with out truly understanding it or meaning it, i would have more money than Bezos. Problem is instead of her saying that to her friends in a small setting and them telling her she is being short sighted or even ignoring her she is posting it to the world and forever. Big difference. Do you still believe all the things you believed, good or bad, as a teenager?
No, of course not.
However, racist bigotry is in another category. I think we are being distracted by the social media aspect. If a student sat in a class and expressed racist bigotry I would hope the class would get up and walk out and shunn the person.
I have walked out of Catholic Mass when, during the Vietnam war, a priest was preaching war mongering vile propaganda.
I may be an old fool now, but as a young man I was a warrior.
Should let her have a sit down with Sacar and Theo.
Quote from: tower912 on June 05, 2020, 11:26:39 AM
Should let her have a sit down with Sacar and Theo.
I wish that I could believe it would help.
Unfortunately, "conversations" with bigots are nonproductive.
I have been somewhat successful with people who have had no first hand experience with the black culture, but hard-core bigots are unreachable.
The die is cast at a young age and me thinking that I can change beliefs is delusional.
We live in stovepipes of opinion and information, it is what it is.
I try not to go for the bate and have conversations with bigots. Civilized society needs to marginalize and shun them and not give them a forum in the name of free speech.
I have a friend who lived in New Orleans. He was having lunch at a N.O. restaurant. In came David Duke who went upstairs for a meeting in a private room. Out went my friend, no argument, no issue, no explanation, just right action.
Quote from: tower912 on June 05, 2020, 11:26:39 AM
Should let her have a sit down with Sacar and Theo.
If they were willing.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2894750-aleksandar-katai-to-discuss-wife-teas-violent-anti-protest-posts-with-la-galaxy
Similar but not identical situation. Would you fire someone because of something that their spouse says, especially if the non-offending spouse condemns those comments as "unacceptable"?
Quote from: vogue65 on June 05, 2020, 12:23:14 PM
I wish that I could believe it would help.
Unfortunately, "conversations" with bigots are nonproductive.
I have been somewhat successful with people who have had no first hand experience with the black culture, but hard-core bigots are unreachable.
The die is cast at a young age and me thinking that I can change beliefs is delusional.
You're right that you (or I) won't change many minds. We're both old and most of our peers are pretty well entrenched in whatever belief system they've chosen.
But I'm not nearly as pessimistic when it comes to 17 year old kids. I knew plenty who walked out of Marquette with different viewpoints than they walked in with.
You're old, and it's not uncommon for the aged to be tired and fatalistic. But change happens. My kids and their friends are creating a More fair world than we did. I expect my grandchildren to pick up where they leave off. I'm optimistic.
Quote from: Its DJOver on June 05, 2020, 02:02:33 PM
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2894750-aleksandar-katai-to-discuss-wife-teas-violent-anti-protest-posts-with-la-galaxy
Similar but not identical situation. Would you fire someone because of something that their spouse says, especially if the non-offending spouse condemns those comments as "unacceptable"?
Homicidal comments aren't exactly a run-of-the-mill controversy. In a sport trying to grow into a top four spot, the extreme uniqueness of her thoughts was always going to result in extreme consequences for him.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 05, 2020, 04:43:47 PM
You're right that you (or I) won't change many minds. We're both old and most of our peers are pretty well entrenched in whatever belief system they've chosen.
But I'm not nearly as pessimistic when it comes to 17 year old kids. I knew plenty who walked out of Marquette with different viewpoints than they walked in with.
You're old, and it's not uncommon for the aged to be tired and fatalistic. But change happens. My kids and their friends are creating a More fair world than we did. I expect my grandchildren to pick up where they leave off. I'm optimistic.
Thanks, I'll work on my attitude.
Quote from: Its DJOver on June 05, 2020, 02:02:33 PM
https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2894750-aleksandar-katai-to-discuss-wife-teas-violent-anti-protest-posts-with-la-galaxy
Similar but not identical situation. Would you fire someone because of something that their spouse says, especially if the non-offending spouse condemns those comments as "unacceptable"?
I wouldn't. But he's not that good and overpaid so it's good PR.
I also have a problem with disciplining someone for something said in private seven years prior provided there is no proof of subsequent comments or actions: https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/29272833/utah-suspends-dc-morgan-scalley-texting-racial-slur-2013
I'm not embarrassed to say that I abhor things I was taught to believe from my parents, teachers, coaches and other "role models" as as kid. Racial slurs weren't frowned upon where I grew up. If I hadn't learned and changed through experience, MU being the center of that, I wouldn't do what I do for a living or be married to whom I am married. People grow over time.
Now, the LAX girl believes that stuff NOW, so I'm good with MU's decision, But seven years in the past, or what you're spouse says? That's taking things too far, IMO, provided there's a documented pattern of change.
Quote from: vogue65 on June 06, 2020, 09:29:24 AM
Thanks, I'll work on my attitude.
You're welcome. Good luck!
Quote from: shoothoops on June 03, 2020, 11:45:13 AM
One could very reasonably say, MU falls in line with some of its league peers in this regard, w/Georgetown being a big exception. GU is a 50% white place vs 70% plus at MU and some of the others. The breakdowns very where Xavier will more than double the black population of MU but not so in other minority demographics, etc...
But I would prefer MU to lead from the front. My next example may be considered apples to oranges, but play along a bit to see the bigger point. Vanderbilt has become a dramatically more diverse play in a variety of ways, race, geography, etc...and, it has been intentional. Some of that came from its recent Chancellor Nick Zeppos, a Milwaukee native, and two degree Madison person. It's a 50% white place now, and its students are more evenly geographically distributed from all regions of the country.
I am linking a brief piece from 2014 from Tim Corbin, the baseball coach at Vandy. His approach is similar to some of the other non revenue sports there. For them, diversity is intentional. And, success came in the way of three appearances in College World Series Finals and two National Titles. His protege has been doing the same at Michigan, a Finalist last year. Racial, geographic, religious diversity, etc...is intentional, and prioritized.
https://vucommodores.com/diamond-diversity-tim-corbin-s-squad-contains-talent-from-all-backgrounds/
Another big thing that stands out for me is 73% from either Wisconsin or Illinois. That's a lot. I hope MU intentionally makes an effort to increase its geographic diversity as well.
I'm aware enough that these things are not of interest or importance to some. Hopefully these are important to MU.
Diversity is intentional:
https://twitter.com/AmandiOnAir/status/1270361553968205827?s=19
Quote from: dgies9156 on June 03, 2020, 04:18:02 PM
Perhaps I'm about to get shot for this, but I'm not sure I agree with what the university did.
It's a two faceted argument. Yes, her comments were inappropriate, insulting and perceived to be racist. She was wrong for uttering them. As others have pointed out, putting comments like those the young woman made on social media is doubly absurd because they last forever.
Who among has not been offensive to others? Who among us has not uttered comments for which we will be held accountable at our final judgment (if not sooner)?
But part of going to college is learning and growing up. Part of what makes Marquette special is the ability to care for the person. Forgiveness is a virtue both our faith and our university advocate. In that vein, if the young woman recognizes she acted inappropriately, should we not be setting an example of forgiveness? That's the Jesuit way and last time I checked, Marquette is a Jesuit university.
Over the years, we've had people attend Marquette whose attitudes was truly un-Catholic and un-Christian. Yet as a community of diversity, we lead and we learn. By that, we grow and we discover right from wrong. Our exposure to people of different backgrounds, beliefs and cultures enlightens us. We have reinforced the concepts of consideration and inclusiveness.
Wherever the young woman ends up, I hope she learns and I trust her mistaken, offensive comments are a youthful indiscretion never to be repeated.
Ordinarily I would agree with your analysis. The specifics of this case lead me not to.
The experience I had with my kids was after they committed to their respective schools, was that their future coaches told them and their fellow recruits to stop posting anything inflammatory on social media. The coaches told the kids that the university had hired specialists in internet scrubbing , for lack of a better word, to investigate everyone's postings past and present . The funny thing is there was still one of two knuckleheads who still didn't get the message and a couple of them got booted before they enrolled. Also ,most select team , club and high school coaches give their kids a similar message.
Once the kids enrolled in school, just to show they weren't kidding around the schools met with every kid and showed them the slightly embarrassing stuff they had posted (mostly party related)
So basically this young woman wasn't paying attention and just went ahead and did her own thing. In my view it not as if she was given the ground rules. She knew she was a de facto representative of MU even though she hadn't yet enrolled. So really an unforced error of her own creation.
I read she was a goalie, so most likely some lower tier school will tell her if you can get admitted on your own , they will take her on the team. Good goalies, in team sports with that position, are very hard to find. So she will get a chance eventually and the redemption will come somewhere else. She will also find a school environment where she is more comfortable.