Been keeping my eye on the draft boards these past few weeks and Markus is absolutely flying up draft boards.
NBADraft.net has him at 41 as of last night: https://www.nbadraft.net/2019mock_draft
I don't have ESPN Insider but a buddy who does say there's plenty of rumors swirling that Markus is going to go - and I wouldn't blame him. What else does he have to prove? Kid can score night in and night out. How much higher can he go? Sure, he can improve his handles and decision making but he can do that in the league, getting paid (see Curry, Steph).
Remember when Vander went and everyone was upset? His reasoning was that he's topped out. His stock wouldn't get any higher as a senior. He carried us to the Elite 8 and he didn't need to prove anything else. Whether he was right or wrong (undrafted, remember), doesn't matter. The fact is that these kids think about these things and they have "handlers" (hate that term) who build them up at any and all times.
At the very least he will declare without an agent this year. He'd be absolutely foolish not to do so. We have to be prepared for a Markus-less season next year. Happy we have Koby. Would have been nice to have Mannion. Maybe Torrence will re-classify if Markus goes. I'm sure those two talk about it - Torrence gauging Markus' desire to leave.
I've gone both ways with the M2N argument in the past few weeks. "He can't, he shouldn't". I hope no one gets upset if he does - the kid has given our program so much. We need to support him either way.
One thing I've been thinking about it his desire to bring MU to a final four. If we get there this year (or even Elite 8) I think he definitely goes. If we lose the first weekend, does he come back with the #UnfinishedBusiness mindset? Who knows. Been on my mind and I wanted to start a discussion.
Wouldn't surprise me if Markus goes. Wouldn't surprise me if he stays.
Wouldn't upset me if he goes. Obviously would be thrilled if he stays.
Question for those who know these things: What is the deadline for Torrence to declare whether he is in the 2019 or 2020 recruiting class?
Quote from: MU82 on January 31, 2019, 09:58:36 AM
Question for those who know these things: What is the deadline for Torrence to declare whether he is in the 2019 or 2020 recruiting class?
Whatever the deadline is for him to enroll in fall 2019 classes
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 31, 2019, 10:13:52 AM
Whatever the deadline is for him to enroll in fall 2019 classes
Thanks, TAMU. So as long as he has completed all of his HS academic requirements (or will by the end of the summer), it sounds like he can just wait to see if Markus leaves and then say, "I'm all yours, Wojo."
That's cool. I like it when the athlete has control.
If he is not a first round pick then he stays, guaranteed money like Henry is hard to pass up, 2nd rounders are guaranteed nothing but a few meals and play in Vegas
in the summer, hoping to make a team. Malcolm Brodgon is an expection, but he is much bigger than Markus. Markus is truly having a great year and should go to the
tryouts after the season to see where he stands. His improvement this year has been amazing. Been watching MU hoops for 50 years, best guard ever at MU when
it comes to scoring. Dean the Dream the best point guard, Markus the best combo guard. One thing in MU favor is that he is only 19. That is amazing.
Whatever he does, MU will be fine with Koby, Elliott and maybe Torrence.
I think he goes if he thinks he'll be a first rounder. I think he stays if he doesn't. I think Markus would much prefer to play his senior season at Marquette than play in the D league.
One thing that doesn't hurt with respect to Markus playing out his eligibility is his age. He is 19. He won't turn 20 until March. He'd be 21 for the 2020 draft as a just graduated senior. Most kids that play out their eligibility are 1-3 years older. I don't necessarily think playing his senior season could HURT his draft stock. He's likely a 2nd rounder regardless. He likely knows he is a gadgety / niche player in the NBA, and that waiting 1 more year isn't going to change that regardless.
I still think he stays. He's a smart kid. I am sure he wants his degree. I am sure he wants to finish his business with Sam and Sacar. Now if Marquette goes and wins the Natty ship in 2 months, my position may change.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 31, 2019, 10:13:52 AM
Whatever the deadline is for him to enroll in fall 2019 classes
Though he would have to have his required HS credits and be certified by the NCAA Eligibility Center, so things would be a bit earlier than the deadline date for enrollment.
I have a sense that Markus's "handlers" (mom, dad, two older brothers) will provide him with good advice as he makes this decision. I hope he does make the league, and is successful there. Next year or the year after is really up to him. I have confidence he'll make the right decision for himself. I felt differently about Vander.
Quote from: BCHoopster on January 31, 2019, 10:19:44 AM
If he is not a first round pick then he stays, guaranteed money like Henry is hard to pass up, 2nd rounders are guaranteed nothing but a few meals and play in Vegas
in the summer, hoping to make a team. Malcolm Brodgon is an expection, but he is much bigger than Markus.
BCH, you are using logic. These decisions often are not made pragmatically by the kids.
If Markus is BE POY, first-team All-American and leads us to a deep tourney run, it's very easy to envision him saying, "I've accomplished everything I set out to accomplish at Marquette, and then some. And I think I've got a better chance to make it in the NBA than the 'experts' do. I'm going."
I am not at all predicting that's what will happen, and I have seen no evidence here that a single one of us Scoopers knows what is in Markus' head (surely I don't), but it's very easy to envision that scenario.
Quote from: MU82 on January 31, 2019, 10:24:01 AM
BCH, you are using logic. These decisions often are not made pragmatically by the kids.
If Markus is BE POY, first-team All-American and leads us to a deep tourney run, it's very easy to envision him saying, "I've accomplished everything I set out to accomplish at Marquette, and then some. And I think I've got a better chance to make it in the NBA than the 'experts' do. I'm going."
I am not at all predicting that's what will happen, and I have seen no evidence here that a single one of us Scoopers knows what is in Markus' head (surely I don't), but it's very easy to envision that scenario.
I wouldn't say Markus leaving under the scenario you've laid out here is unpragmatic or illogical.
Playing basketball for money (even tax-free Euros) instead of playing basketball for free makes tons of sense, pragmatically speaking.
Quote from: MU82 on January 31, 2019, 10:24:01 AM
BCH, you are using logic. These decisions often are not made pragmatically by the kids.
If Markus is BE POY, first-team All-American and leads us to a deep tourney run, it's very easy to envision him saying, "I've accomplished everything I set out to accomplish at Marquette, and then some. And I think I've got a better chance to make it in the NBA than the 'experts' do. I'm going."
I am not at all predicting that's what will happen, and I have seen no evidence here that a single one of us Scoopers knows what is in Markus' head (surely I don't), but it's very easy to envision that scenario.
Your absolutely right, big run in tourny will give him huge exposure, but I remember a great player who did the same and an absolute bust in the NBA, Jimmer Ferdette.
Not saying it will happen to Markus but small guards can not D up in the NBA. Can you see him guarding Bledsoe or Brodgon, they would take him
right to the hoop. Give him one more year to get stronger might help.
Probably a 50/50 shot. If he goes someone will take him in the 2nd round, and at minimum he'll get a 2 way contract. Is that enough for him to go, who knows? Will coming back an extra year improve his draft stock? Probably not, there's not much left for him to prove. Everyone knows what he is- an elite shooter and scorer, but undersized.
He'll declare for the draft without an agent and then who knows what can happen. If he really impresses in workouts or at the combine, maybe a couple teams assure him they'd take him in the first round. All it takes is one team to fall in love with you.
One factor that I don't know enough about- is either of the 2019 or 2020 draft classes deemed superior by NBA scouts? If the 2020 draft class is considered much stronger, it is probably in his best interest to go after this year.
Quote from: GrimmReaper33 on January 31, 2019, 10:49:59 AM
All it takes is one team to fall in love with you.
Scary thought. Hard not to fall in love with the kid, ai'na? I know I am.
Quote from: BCHoopster on January 31, 2019, 10:47:28 AM
Give him one more year to get stronger might help.
They have strength programs in the pros, too.
The truth is that there's nothing holding Markus back from the NBA that's going to get better with another year at Marquette (i.e. he's not getting taller or more explosive/athletic). Any other weaknesses, i.e. strength, ballhandling, PG skills, he can work on just as easily as a pro as he can at Marquette ... probably moreso since he won't have to deal with pesky classes and whatnot.
Realistically, the only thing that should keep Markus at MU is a strong desire not to play in the G league or Europe. If he has reason to believe he'll be on an NBA roster, he should go pro.
At this point, I expect Markus will be back next year but I won't be shocked if he leaves. I expect Markus to go through the process, gather all the information, and make the decision he feels is best for him. I will support him in whatever decision he makes.
Until then, I am going to enjoy every second that Markus wears a Marquette uniform. Just like I did for Wade and Ellenson.
If Markus leaves, next year will still be fun. Kobe, Greg, and Symir reclassifying would soften the blow. Sam and Joey are capable of being a heck of a one-two punch. Plus the defense should be good again. Of course the team would be better with Markus but I am not worried about the thought of a no-Markus team next year.
I'm still trying to figure out how this thread is different than "Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?" ?-(
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on January 31, 2019, 11:09:38 AM
I'm still trying to figure out how this thread is different than "Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?" ?-(
This one goes to 11
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on January 31, 2019, 11:09:38 AM
I'm still trying to figure out how this thread is different than "Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?" ?-(
Missed it - my B!
Quote from: TheREALwrk on January 31, 2019, 10:54:33 AM
Scary thought. Hard not to fall in love with the kid, ai'na? I know I am.
H or NH?
The way he has shot the ball season this season has changed things for me. If I had to make a bet on going or staying, I would take him leaving after this season. I never fault anyone fr chasing a dream and try to never second guess someone's decision. If he were my son and he asked my thoughts, I would tell him to go get paid and enjoy himself.
Quote from: BCHoopster on January 31, 2019, 10:47:28 AM
Your absolutely right, big run in tourny will give him huge exposure, but I remember a great player who did the same and an absolute bust in the NBA, Jimmer Ferdette.
Not saying it will happen to Markus but small guards can not D up in the NBA. Can you see him guarding Bledsoe or Brodgon, they would take him
right to the hoop. Give him one more year to get stronger might help.
Except... Jimmer never had a deep tourney run (maxed out at S16), and he didn't leave early.
Regardless, he's currently making very nice coin in China after making $8.5 mil over 5 years in the NBA. If that's a horror story...
So:
1.) The situations aren't analagous
2.) Markus > Jimmer
3.) $10mil+ is not an argument that he should not leave
The comp that KenPom makes is Sean Singletary. A 6-0 PG who scored 2,000 points at Virginia before being selected by Sacramento in the 2nd round of the 2008 NBA Draft. He spent a couple seasons on NBA rosters, then finished out his career in Europe and the D League.
No comp is perfect. Far from it. Sean was a better defender. Markus is a better shooter and scorer. But they're remarkably similar in terms of being playmakers/distributors at this point in their respective college careers.
I hope Markus surprises everyone and not only makes it to the NBA but thrives. If he's drafted after this season, it's going to be because the team accomplished something very special (like a Final Four appearance). Nobody holds it against Dwyane Wade for leaving a year early after leading MU to its first FF in a quarter century.
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on January 31, 2019, 11:47:54 AM
Except... Jimmer never had a deep tourney run (maxed out at S16), and he didn't leave early.
Regardless, he's currently making very nice coin in China after making $8.5 mil over 5 years in the NBA. If that's a horror story...
So:
1.) The situations aren't analagous
2.) Markus > Jimmer
3.) $10mil+ is not an argument that he should not leave
This.
And furthermore, most accomplished athletes don't think along the lines of "So-and-so failed, so I'd better be careful because I don't want to fail." They think: "I'm twice as good as so-and-so, and just because he failed it doesn't mean I will. In fact, I
know I'm gonna make it."
Goin' no matta. Da sun comes up tomarra regardless, hey?
I talked about it with REALwrk but it's more than just basketball with Markus.
Between the mission trips, his role on the Oversight Committee, and the Fellowship of Christian Athletes he leads, I don't think it's as simple as some of you are making it out to be. Players talk about legacy and their place within university history etc., but in all of my years as a college hoops fan I personally can't point to one other player who's done more with and for his school than Markus has (off the court). I don't mean to open Pandora's Box with player payment talk (they definitely should), but he is the absolute embodiment of the "student-athlete."
He's not a lottery pick and won't ever be a lottery pick. So then yeah the conversation is "would he leave if he's projected to go in the 2019 1st Round?" As of now there is no mock stating such, and while his scoring ability is otherworldly at this level, most of us believe his chance at sustained success in the League is at PG. Coming back another year WOULD do him some good on showing the ability to continue to grow as a PG, to cut down on the TO's and continue to improve his passing and facilitating, in terms of draft position. Again just my opinion, but it's not as easy as "he'll only focus on basketball and improve with a year in the G League over college": he still wants to get drafted as high as possible.
Lastly, I look to his support system. Us twitter users all see the #LeagueMe posts his brother has on any and every Markus tweet, but it's an intelligent family who sees the big picture. While Vander was just looking for ANYONE to tell him he was a 1st round pick, and the Henry uses us-we use Henry relationship was clear early on, I think the Howards will actually take everything into account. We make a Sweet Sixten run? Maybe Markus wants a Final Four. We make a Final Four run? Maybe Markus wants a shot at a title. The ability to shatter every Marquette record known to man. The ability to continue his work with Marquette volunteer groups, the NCAA committees, the Marquette FCA. He's as humble and special a guy as it gets so don't think they're not important in this.
I can confidently see a scenario where he declares, gets professional feedback, sees there are still areas of improvement that another year could help his stock yet (contrary to what some of you think), and comes back for one more. He knows what next season could be, and I don't think he nor his family are narrow-minded in not considering everything else he does at MU.
Quote from: onepostjohnson on January 31, 2019, 12:46:24 PM
I talked about it with REALwrk but it's more than just basketball with Markus.
Between the mission trips, his role on the Oversight Committee, and the Fellowship of Christian Athletes he leads, I don't think it's as simple as some of you are making it out to be. Players talk about legacy and their place within university history etc., but in all of my years as a college hoops fan I personally can't point to one other player who's done more with and for his school than Markus has (off the court). I don't mean to open Pandora's Box with player payment talk (they definitely should), but he is the absolute embodiment of the "student-athlete."
He's not a lottery pick and won't ever be a lottery pick. So then yeah the conversation is "would he leave if he's projected to go in the 2019 1st Round?" As of now there is no mock stating such, and while his scoring ability is otherworldly at this level, most of us believe his chance at sustained success in the League is at PG. Coming back another year WOULD do him some good on showing the ability to continue to grow as a PG, to cut down on the TO's and continue to improve his passing and facilitating, in terms of draft position. Again just my opinion, but it's not as easy as "he'll only focus on basketball and improve with a year in the G League over college": he still wants to get drafted as high as possible.
Lastly, I look to his support system. Us twitter users all see the #LeagueMe posts his brother has on any and every Markus tweet, but it's an intelligent family who sees the big picture. While Vander was just looking for ANYONE to tell him he was a 1st round pick, and the Henry uses us-we use Henry relationship was clear early on, I think the Howards will actually take everything into account. We make a Sweet Sixten run? Maybe Markus wants a Final Four. We make a Final Four run? Maybe Markus wants a shot at a title. The ability to shatter every Marquette record known to man. The ability to continue his work with Marquette volunteer groups, the NCAA committees, the Marquette FCA. He's as humble and special a guy as it gets so don't think they're not important in this.
I can confidently see a scenario where he declares, gets professional feedback, sees there are still areas of improvement that another year could help his stock yet (contrary to what some of you think), and comes back for one more. He knows what next season could be, and I don't think he nor his family are narrow-minded in not considering everything else he does at MU.
All true things. But just because he's a great guy, overachiever off the court, and has a great support system doesn't mean he won't go to the NBA if he keeps torching the college game like he currently is. Leaving early doesn't preclude one from being a great, smart guy from a great family. Plenty of those guys leave early.
I could just as easily see a scenario where a late first round team (meaning a currently successful team/likely first-class organization) says they love his game & character, show him where he fits as a long term piece in their puzzle, and will guarantee to pick him at say #27 if he's still there. All it takes is one. If that's the case, why wouldn't he go?
Maybe he will! Nobody is saying for sure that his character and commitments will make him come back for another year. What I was suggesting, and I believe others as well, is that Markus is sure to take a reasoned approach and a thorough examination of his options and decide what's right for him, with the help of his family and other advisors in his life. It won't be a knee-jerk "I'm sick of going to school" decision or some random agent suggesting he "knows" Howard will go in the first round.
Quote from: onepostjohnson on January 31, 2019, 12:46:24 PM
Lastly, I look to his support system. Us twitter users all see the #LeagueMe posts his brother has on any and every Markus tweet, but it's an intelligent family who sees the big picture.
League-Me is the basketball skills training camp that his older brother Desmond runs
http://league-me.com/index.php/about-us-v2/
If he goes to the draft, the new rule allows players to return if they don't get drafted
Does that include the 2nd round?
If he gets drafted in the 2nd round, I assume there is no going back?
Quote from: GoldenEagle323 on February 01, 2019, 09:05:29 AM
If he goes to the draft, the new rule allows players to return if they don't get drafted
I don't think so. They have 10 days after the draft combine to remove their name and retain eligibility. That deadline is May 29 this year. The draft takes place mid-June.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on February 01, 2019, 09:02:59 AM
League-Me is the basketball skills training camp that his older brother Desmond runs
http://league-me.com/index.php/about-us-v2/
Yep, I know.
Quote from: Pakuni on January 31, 2019, 10:58:54 AM
They have strength programs in the pros, too.
The truth is that there's nothing holding Markus back from the NBA that's going to get better with another year at Marquette (i.e. he's not getting taller or more explosive/athletic). Any other weaknesses, i.e. strength, ballhandling, PG skills, he can work on just as easily as a pro as he can at Marquette ... probably moreso since he won't have to deal with pesky classes and whatnot.
Realistically, the only thing that should keep Markus at MU is a strong desire not to play in the G league or Europe. If he has reason to believe he'll be on an NBA roster, he should go pro.
This is pretty accurate IMO. Markus is an elite shooter/scorer - that's a constant and hopefully his "golden ticket". But he is small and by NBA standards not especially athletic - and those are constants also. This is his first season handling the point. Perhaps some NBA teams will overlook the fact that he is a little loose with the ball. If he comes back next year and drastically improves his ball handling/passing skills his stock will go up some (limited due to size and athleticism). If he comes back and pretty much looks like the same ball handler/passer his stock would (IMO) tumble.
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on January 31, 2019, 03:14:51 PM
All true things. But just because he's a great guy, overachiever off the court, and has a great support system doesn't mean he won't go to the NBA if he keeps torching the college game like he currently is. Leaving early doesn't preclude one from being a great, smart guy from a great family. Plenty of those guys leave early.
I could just as easily see a scenario where a late first round team (meaning a currently successful team/likely first-class organization) says they love his game & character, show him where he fits as a long term piece in their puzzle, and will guarantee to pick him at say #27 if he's still there. All it takes is one. If that's the case, why wouldn't he go?
Absolutely! I'm not saying he's beholden to all those things alone in terms of keeping him here for a year.
I'm just saying it's not like MU cases in the past (Vander and Henry) where those guys were 100% focused on getting themselves to the NBA and that alone (in Henry's case, you could argue to the detriment of our team at the time). Markus's decision is more nuanced for a guy who's likely not projected to be a 1st rounder.
Quote from: onepostjohnson on February 01, 2019, 10:14:54 AM
Absolutely! I'm not saying he's beholden to all those things alone in terms of keeping him here for a year.
I'm just saying it's not like MU cases in the past (Vander and Henry) where those guys were 100% focused on getting themselves to the NBA and that alone (in Henry's case, you could argue to the detriment of our team at the time). Markus's decision is more nuanced for a guy who's likely not projected to be a 1st rounder.
This seems like speculation. Also if Markus has the same oppty as Henry (on the bubble for lottery) I expect him to be gone. But that's my opinion and I'm not going to try to make him a saint or a devil based on his potential decision.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 01, 2019, 10:18:12 AM
This seems like speculation. Also if Markus has the same oppty as Henry (on the bubble for lottery) I expect him to be gone. But that's my opinion and I'm not going to try to make him a saint or a devil based on his potential decision.
Love Markus obviously and even if he has an amazing tourney run and leads us to the Elite 8 or Final 4 I don't see any way he moves up that far on draft boards for potential lottery consideration.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 01, 2019, 10:09:22 AM
This is pretty accurate IMO. Markus is an elite shooter/scorer - that's a constant and hopefully his "golden ticket". But he is small and by NBA standards not especially athletic - and those are constants also. This is his first season handling the point. Perhaps some NBA teams will overlook the fact that he is a little loose with the ball. If he comes back next year and drastically improves his ball handling/passing skills his stock will go up some (limited due to size and athleticism). If he comes back and pretty much looks like the same ball handler/passer his stock would (IMO) tumble.
If he can show he can really handle the ball and have great court awareness, he could be a pretty high pick. Size did not stop the likes of D.J. Augustine, Jimmer Fredette, Tyus Jones, Chris Jackson, Kemba Walker, etc. He has dramatically improved his ability to get his shot off despite tight defense, and he has gotten better at finding a path to the hoop, so I think he can improve his handle. Just not sure he can improve his ability to locate teammates on the fly - that seems to be a skill PGs are born with. But I wouldn't totally dismiss this kid's ability to do anything he really sets his mind to; he seems to be an extraordinary young man.
As for the leaving early decision itself, him being smart and his family valuing education might enter into it, but as EFR said (and others have acknowledged), that alone probably doesn't mean much. For example, Elton Brand, Jay Williams, Domantas Sabonis ... actually dozens and dozens (probably hundreds) fit that exact profile yet left college early.
It's interesting to read the speculation of those who have no idea what Markus is thinking or what the people around him are telling him. (Not talking about you, Lenny.)
If I were Markus, I would go to the combine even if I am 100% sure I am not entering the 2019 draft.
He will get some great feedback on exactly what he he can do to enhance his draft desirability.
I've totally changed my opinion...his stock is pretty close to the top now. He's short and might not even be 1st round. But when he gets somewhere he will make a niche. I don't think the money is any better a year from now...and his youth is a real plus...another year in College might even cause his worth to take a hit.
I heard something from a commentator I hadn't heard before...he mentioned Markus' "strength" after a tough drive. I had seen that as a difference between Markus and the other NBA shorts...he's no Mugsy Bogues or Kemba Walker...no thickness...but maybe he's stronger than I think.
Anyway He's ready to "graduate" and pursue his Profession.
so lets play this scenario out. IF he leaves. Whats your expectations for next year?
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on February 01, 2019, 01:02:58 PM
so lets play this scenario out. IF he leaves. Whats your expectations for next year?
They will be Top 3 still in the Big East as McEwen and Elliott will be pretty good, and the balance of the team is a year older. Offense will have to be changed a little bit
but the D will be better as both of those guards are big. McEwen, Sacar, Hausers and Theo, still pretty good. Elliott, Morrow and could use a back-up forward, could
that be Cain, sure or Bailey, expect both to improve. So have depth.
Agreed, plus Symir would join too which adds another huge guard (6'3" w/ 6'8" wingspan). The Hausers would make The Leap and split a heavy scoring load. It wouldn't be the same ceiling as with a senior Markus on board, especially come tourney time, but it would still be a damn good team loaded with talent, experience, and length. The defensive potential of that squad would be: suffocation from every angle. Wojo's got this covered!
On espn's top 100 draft prospects howard isnt on the top 100..sam at #95
Howard is ranked #41 on the draft board for 2020 draft
Quote from: MU82 on February 01, 2019, 10:56:20 AM
It's interesting to read the speculation of those who have no idea what Markus is thinking or what the people around him are telling him. (Not talking about you, Lenny.)
If you're referring to me (can only assume so), I can assure you it's not "random speculation" in knowing the value of these in his decision.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 01, 2019, 10:52:24 AM
Love Markus obviously and even if he has an amazing tourney run and leads us to the Elite 8 or Final 4 I don't see any way he moves up that far on draft boards for potential lottery consideration.
I tend to agree with you on where Markus would potentially slot. My point was Henry was a bubble lottery pick. It had nothing to do with his motivation or character. I wouldnt fault anyone for leaving for that.
Quote from: onepostjohnson on February 01, 2019, 05:45:41 PM
If you're referring to me (can only assume so), I can assure you it's not "random speculation" in knowing the value of these in his decision.
I was not referring specifically to you over any of the others, but if you see yourself in it ...
So, you are suggesting that you have inside knowledge into what is going through Markus' mind? Do tell, and keep us posted every step of the way.
Quote from: MU82 on February 01, 2019, 10:56:20 AM
If he can show he can really handle the ball and have great court awareness, he could be a pretty high pick. Size did not stop the likes of D.J. Augustine, Jimmer Fredette, Tyus Jones, Chris Jackson, Kemba Walker, etc. He has dramatically improved his ability to get his shot off despite tight defense, and he has gotten better at finding a path to the hoop, so I think he can improve his handle. Just not sure he can improve his ability to locate teammates on the fly - that seems to be a skill PGs are born with. But I wouldn't totally dismiss this kid's ability to do anything he really sets his mind to; he seems to be an extraordinary young man.
As for the leaving early decision itself, him being smart and his family valuing education might enter into it, but as EFR said (and others have acknowledged), that alone probably doesn't mean much. For example, Elton Brand, Jay Williams, Domantas Sabonis ... actually dozens and dozens (probably hundreds) fit that exact profile yet left college early.
It's interesting to read the speculation of those who have no idea what Markus is thinking or what the people around him are telling him. (Not talking about you, Lenny.)
That's exactly right. It years of running the point to have the handle and court vision that guys like Iverson, Nash, etc. had. One does not simply become a point guard.
I just continue to wonder what may happen if Markus has one or two of those amazing Markus-like games against some good teams in the NCAA tourney.
He is starting to get more publicity now but imagine if he goes off for 45 in a sweet 16 or elite 8 matchup.
I think in a scenario like that his stock may never be higher and it might not be a bad idea for him to jump.
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on February 01, 2019, 01:02:58 PM
so lets play this scenario out. IF he leaves. Whats your expectations for next year?
and to this ... suppose this team goes to the FF this year. With the heightened publicity, does Sam also come out early this year?
Quote from: Rick Majerus' Towel on February 02, 2019, 07:46:58 AM
and to this ... suppose this team goes to the FF this year. With the heightened publicity, does Sam also come out early this year?
We need a loss to insert some realism back into this board.
Quote from: Bocephys on February 02, 2019, 08:03:04 AM
We need a loss to insert some realism back into this board.
Or just more common sense.
Even if Sam or Markus go off in the tourney, that heightened visibility doesn't make them more NBA ready. Scouts already know who as what they are, their strengths and weaknesses, etc.
Quote from: Rick Majerus' Towel on February 02, 2019, 07:46:58 AM
and to this ... suppose this team goes to the FF this year. With the heightened publicity, does Sam also come out early this year?
Scoop Always good for a laff and a shake of the head
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on February 02, 2019, 08:50:32 AM
Scoop Always good for a laff and a shake of the head
And we appreciate your contributions!
Quote from: Bocephys on February 02, 2019, 08:03:04 AM
We need a loss to insert some realism back into this board.
By reading this board you would think the NBA drafts kids based on college degrees, whether or not a player is a nice person and team post season success. Totally realistic.
Quote from: Rick Majerus' Towel on February 02, 2019, 07:46:58 AM
and to this ... suppose this team goes to the FF this year. With the heightened publicity, does Sam also come out early this year?
It's the silly time of the year
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 02, 2019, 08:44:00 AM
Or just more common sense.
Even if Sam or Markus go off in the tourney, that heightened visibility doesn't make them more NBA ready. Scouts already know who as what they are, their strengths and weaknesses, etc.
You're giving scouts way too much credit!
See Jalen Brunson ... stands on a ladder and cuts down the nets twice and gets drafted 33rd (2nd pick, 2nd round).
So, go ahead and make the case that if Nova crapped out in round one of the tourneys in 2016 and 2018 he still would have been drafted 33rd.
Performing on the big stage makes a big difference. I only hope that we have this issue in April.
Quote from: Rick Majerus' Towel on February 02, 2019, 09:36:18 AM
You're giving scouts way too much credit!
See Jalen Brunson ... stands on a ladder and cuts down the nets twice and gets drafted 33rd (2nd pick, 2nd round).
So, go ahead and make the case that if Nova crapped out in round one of the tourneys in 2016 and 2018 he still would have been drafted 33rd.
Performing on the big stage makes a big difference. I only hope that we have this issue in April.
He made an NBA roster. He got drafted because he's a good player. He got plenty of exposure in the big east.
Quote from: Mr. Sand-Knit on February 02, 2019, 08:50:32 AM
Scoop Always good for a laff and a shake of the head
Literally 90% of your posts contribute to this.
Quote from: Rick Majerus' Towel on February 02, 2019, 09:36:18 AM
You're giving scouts way too much credit!
See Jalen Brunson ... stands on a ladder and cuts down the nets twice and gets drafted 33rd (2nd pick, 2nd round).
So, go ahead and make the case that if Nova crapped out in round one of the tourneys in 2016 and 2018 he still would have been drafted 33rd.
Performing on the big stage makes a big difference. I only hope that we have this issue in April.
So why didn't he go top 10? Shouldn't the championships and POY award have garnered more than 33rd?
In reality, Jalen went exactly where he was projected to go during the season: anywhere from 25-40.
No scout is perfect. Yes, a tournament run can help boost a player's draft stock. But a 6 game (or less) sample size is not the biggest factor in a scouts mind just because it happened in the NCAA tournament.
Quote from: Frenns Liquor Depot on February 02, 2019, 09:40:31 AM
He made an NBA roster. He got drafted because he's a good player. He got plenty of exposure in the big east.
Didn't he win national player of the year? The award that's based off the regular season
Quote from: Bocephys on February 02, 2019, 08:03:04 AM
We need a loss to insert some realism back into this board.
Ha—exactly.
Oh boy. This isn't ending anytime soon.
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on February 02, 2019, 09:52:54 AM
No scout is perfect. Yes, a tournament run can help boost a player's draft stock. But a 6 game (or less) sample size is not the biggest factor in a scouts mind just because it happened in the NCAA tournament.
I have a hard time beleiving divencienzo would have gone in the first round if not for last years tournament run but generally I agree.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 02, 2019, 08:44:00 AM
Or just more common sense.
Even if Sam or Markus go off in the tourney, that heightened visibility doesn't make them more NBA ready. Scouts already know who as what they are, their strengths and weaknesses, etc.
Hmm...I'm not so sure about that. Donte DiVincenzo went from not on draft boards to a top-20 pick thanks to one weekend in March and some great workouts. I don't think Markus' stock would change much, but if we had that dream Final Four run, culminating with 2 wins in Minneapolis as Sam Hauser averages 30 ppg/12 rpg/5 apg in the two games, he might skyrocket onto NBA radars.
Quote from: Bocephys on February 02, 2019, 08:03:04 AM
We need a loss to insert some realism back into this board.
Yup
God this board is gonna be insufferable if we lose in one of the first two rounds of the tournament.
Quote from: Rick Majerus' Towel on February 02, 2019, 10:07:16 AM
Above is my original quote.
Jay Bilas thinks Sam will have a long NBA career. Sam is on some of next year's draft boards.
Why do you guys laugh at that idea that if, repeat if, this team makes a FF run, and what was not stated was Sam and Markus "go off" for that too happen, that Sam could also come out early?
I'll answer it. Because Sam is a traditional and they stay in school and get a degree. You don't think traditionals are angling for the first way to the league like urban kids (unless that is their goal coming in like Henry).
If Sam was urban like Vander, who used an E8 run to come out early, you would also think he would do the same.
Just putting aside your racism I think Joey is a big part of it too. They're clearly extremely close and Sam played a key part in Joey's recruitment. If Joey was seen as a 1 and done and Sam shoot up the boards with a special March run I could see it. I haven't looked at any mock drafts, so I have no idea if he's anywhere on them, but if he isn't, I would expect both H bros back next year.
Quote from: Rick Majerus' Towel on February 02, 2019, 10:07:16 AM
Above is my original quote.
Jay Bilas thinks Sam will have a long NBA career. Sam is on some of next year's draft boards.
Why do you guys laugh at that idea that if, repeat if, this team makes a FF run, and what was not stated was Sam and Markus "go off" for that too happen, that Sam could also come out early?
I'll answer it. Because Sam is a traditional and they stay in school and get a degree. You don't think traditionals are angling for the first way to the league like urban kids (unless that is their goal coming in like Henry).
If Sam was urban like Vander, who used an E8 run to come out early, you would also think he would do the same.
You should have quit when you were behind.
Quote from: AirPunch on February 02, 2019, 10:21:32 AM
I have a hard time beleiving divencienzo would have gone in the first round if not for last years tournament run but generally I agree.
I said during his freshman year that he would end up in the NBA - and that was when he was averaging less than 10 minutes a game.
If a dummy like me can see that......
Quote from: Tha Hound on February 02, 2019, 10:56:18 AM
God this board is gonna be insufferable if we lose in one of the first two rounds of[/a] the tournament.
FIFY
Quote from: Tha Hound on February 02, 2019, 10:56:18 AM
God this board is gonna be insufferable if we lose in one of the first two rounds of the tournament.
"Why would Markus and Sam come back? Wojo can't even get us out of the first weekend"
Quote from: Rick Majerus' Towel on February 02, 2019, 07:46:58 AM
and to this ... suppose this team goes to the FF this year. With the heightened publicity, does Sam also come out early this year?
Come out and go where?
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 02, 2019, 10:46:43 AM
Hmm...I'm not so sure about that. Donte DiVincenzo went from not on draft boards to a top-20 pick thanks to one weekend in March and some great workouts. I don't think Markus' stock would change much, but if we had that dream Final Four run, culminating with 2 wins in Minneapolis as Sam Hauser averages 30 ppg/12 rpg/5 apg in the two games, he might skyrocket onto NBA radars.
I'm sure scouts have at least some idea who Sam Hauser is and they had scouted DDV well before the Final Four. With DDV, the Final Four was the tipping point to going a year earlier than expected. It probably gave him a closer look from scouts. But the Final Four is just one part of the scouting process.
Quote from: Rick Majerus' Towel on February 02, 2019, 10:07:16 AM
Above is my original quote.
Jay Bilas thinks Sam will have a long NBA career. Sam is on some of next year's draft boards.
Why do you guys laugh at that idea that if, repeat if, this team makes a FF run, and what was not stated was Sam and Markus "go off" for that too happen, that Sam could also come out early?
I'll answer it. Because Sam is a traditional and they stay in school and get a degree. You don't think traditionals are angling for the first way to the league like urban kids (unless that is their goal coming in like Henry).
If Sam was urban like Vander, who used an E8 run to come out early, you would also think he would do the same.
Thinly veiled racism - nice. Just what this board needs!
Quote from: Rick Majerus' Towel on February 02, 2019, 10:07:16 AM
Above is my original quote.
Jay Bilas thinks Sam will have a long NBA career. Sam is on some of next year's draft boards.
Why do you guys laugh at that idea that if, repeat if, this team makes a FF run, and what was not stated was Sam and Markus "go off" for that too happen, that Sam could also come out early?
I'll answer it. Because Sam is a traditional and they stay in school and get a degree. You don't think traditionals are angling for the first way to the league like urban kids (unless that is their goal coming in like Henry).
If Sam was urban like Vander, who used an E8 run to come out early, you would also think he would do the same.
Was this supposed to be better than using colors for some reason? Because it really missed the mark.
Quote from: Jockey on February 02, 2019, 11:32:27 AM
I said during his freshman year that he would end up in the NBA - and that was when he was averaging less than 10 minutes a game.
If a dummy like me can see that......
Wait really? Did you post that here? because that's a great call
Pass da bagels and lox, hey?
Smuggles going with traditional vs urban. Great stuff!
For crying out loud, enjoy the ride!
Looks like a post was removed. Was the banhammer also applied?
Honest question, is Sam on any mock drafts? I remember seeing him at #95 (aka a projected 4th round pick) on some big board somewhere. That's personally why I don't see Sam leaving early. I think he could make the NBA but I think it's likely as a undrafted free agent
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on February 02, 2019, 03:03:10 PM
Looks like a post was removed. Was the banhammer also applied?
Honest question, is Sam on any mock drafts? I remember seeing him at #95 (aka a projected 4th round pick) on some big board somewhere. That's personally why I don't see Sam leaving early. I think he could make the NBA but I think it's likely as a undrafted free agent
Last week, with all the talk of MU players leaving for the NBA, I took some time and searched.
Markus was listed on a few, all in second round.
Sam was on no mocks. One writer had him listed as #58 overall, but believe it was one of those blog guys
Joey was on no mocks.
Theo was on no mocks.
Jamal was on no mocks. Yes, prior to season, some stated he had best chance for NBA.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 02, 2019, 10:46:43 AM
Hmm...I'm not so sure about that. Donte DiVincenzo went from not on draft boards to a top-20 pick thanks to one weekend in March and some great workouts. I don't think Markus' stock would change much, but if we had that dream Final Four run, culminating with 2 wins in Minneapolis as Sam Hauser averages 30 ppg/12 rpg/5 apg in the two games, he might skyrocket onto NBA radars.
DiVencenzo wasn't on draft boards because as a bench player nobody imagined he'd be coming out early until after his tournament run. You can bet NBA scouts were aware of him and his abilities long before March 2018.
Some of these posts read like NBA scouts are only aware of the players in NBAdraft.net's mock and if they're not on those "draft boards" NBA teams aren't aware of them.
Quote from: nyg on February 02, 2019, 03:40:31 PM
Last week, with all the talk of MU players leaving for the NBA, I took some time and searched.
Markus was listed on a few, all in second round.
Sam was on no mocks. One writer had him listed as #58 overall, but believe it was one of those blog guys
Joey was on no mocks.
Theo was on no mocks.
Jamal was on no mocks. Yes, prior to season, some stated he had best chance for NBA.
NBA personnel departments don't make their scouting decisions and build their draft boards according to what online mock drafts say. Who is and isn't on those mocks tells us essentially nothing about what NBA teams think of Sam, Markus, etc.
Quote from: Pakuni on February 02, 2019, 03:43:27 PM
NBA personnel departments don't make their scouting decisions and build their draft boards according to what online mock drafts say. Who is and isn't on those mocks tells us essentially nothing about what NBA teams think of Sam, Markus, etc.
TAMU asked the question. I answered.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 02, 2019, 10:46:43 AM
Hmm...I'm not so sure about that. Donte DiVincenzo went from not on draft boards to a top-20 pick thanks to one weekend in March and some great workouts. I don't think Markus' stock would change much, but if we had that dream Final Four run, culminating with 2 wins in Minneapolis as Sam Hauser averages 30 ppg/12 rpg/5 apg in the two games, he might skyrocket onto NBA radars.
There are certainly exceptions. And just because he was not on draft boards doesn't mean NBA personnel were not aware of him or his potential. He was a complimentary player on that team because of how deep it was.
He also has size and athleticism that Markus can't match.
Quote from: Vander Blue Man Group on February 02, 2019, 03:57:45 PM
There are certainly exceptions. And just because he was not on draft boards doesn't mean NBA personnel were not aware of him or his potential. He was a complimentary player on that team because of how deep it was.
He also has size and athleticism that Markus can't match.
That's why I specifically talked about Sam. While Sam doesn't have that athleticism, he has the size and an elite skill that is in demand. An out of the blue star turn in March could have him declaring & becoming a draft prospect a year ahead of schedule, like we saw with DD.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 02, 2019, 04:25:18 PM
That's why I specifically talked about Sam. While Sam doesn't have that athleticism, he has the size and an elite skill that is in demand. An out of the blue star turn in March could have him declaring & becoming a draft prospect a year ahead of schedule, like we saw with DD.
The exposure definitely matters. But I would say that It's pretty well known that Sam can shoot.
If he starts blowing by top athletes off the dribble or something else new — then it can open some eyes.
That's what I think happened to DD. No one knew he was that athletic or could take over a game since he was down the depth chart. It got him an invite/interest and he reinforced it in his workouts.
Thoughts on the NBA for our guys :
Markus -- Not likely to be a first-rounder if he leaves this year. Too turnover prone and lacks the height. Has the example of Vander Blue, of leaving before he was ready, to store in the back of his head. Remember, when Vander left, we were Elite 8. Still did not work the way Vander and his advisers had hoped. Wonder if Vander wishes he could have had his senior year? I'll bet the Hillbilly does!
Sam -- GIve it a rest. The guy is good but he needs more seasoning. As other posters said, want to see Sam blow by people before I get too concerned. Smart kid, great ballplayer. Reminds me of Steve Novak. Likely will play pro ball somewhere.
Quote from: TheREALwrk on February 02, 2019, 01:03:21 PM
Thinly veiled racism - nice. Just what this board needs!
Thinly veiled?
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 02, 2019, 04:25:18 PM
That's why I specifically talked about Sam. While Sam doesn't have that athleticism, he has the size and an elite skill that is in demand. An out of the blue star turn in March could have him declaring & becoming a draft prospect a year ahead of schedule, like we saw with DD.
If Sam helps us get to the title game and then carries us to the championship as DD did for Nova last year, I will wish him luck in the NBA and gladly sacrifice his senior year.
Quote from: MU82 on February 02, 2019, 11:18:28 PM
If Sam helps us get to the title game and then carries us to the championship as DD did for Nova last year, I will wish him luck in the NBA and gladly sacrifice his senior year.
Yup. And I'm not seeing that as in the realm of any reality outside my blue and gold glazed pie in the sky, but when you have the frame and at least one truly elite level skill, a big showcase can serve as an adequate launching pad.
That said, I would like both Markus and Sam to test the waters this year, if only to get feedback to improve their game.
While I don't want anyone specifically to leave early, having players leave early is overall good. It means we are getting better players.
Quote from: brewcity77 on February 02, 2019, 04:25:18 PM
That's why I specifically talked about Sam. While Sam doesn't have that athleticism, he has the size and an elite skill that is in demand. An out of the blue star turn in March could have him declaring & becoming a draft prospect a year ahead of schedule, like we saw with DD.
This whole argument is:
Outlier A happened so Outlier B
could happen. The future is unknown so Outlier B can't be disproven.
It feels like people are then making a leap to Outlier B being entirely plausible. But the criteria for disproving Outlier B are so specific, those events are incredibly unlikely to happen. Marquette has to basically win the title with Sam Hauser going nuts.
In conclusion, Sam Hauser is extremely likely to be back for his Senior year.
Another possible scenario:
We don't win the title (not even close) and Sam does nothing super-special in the postseason. However, he does all he is allowed to do by NCAA/NBA rules (showcases? workouts?). He totally impresses NBA GMs/coaches, who find him to be a better athlete than they had thought and who are amazed that he makes 45 of 50 NBA-range 3s. A couple of GMs think they have what could be the steal of the draft, and they let him know that.
Do I think that will happen? Probably not. Is it plausible? Probably more than Sam averaging 30 ppg in a run to the Final Four.
Bottom line: I expect Sam back, but stranger stuff has happened in this realm.
FWIW (not much if anything), I am now about 51-49 that Markus is going, but it's just a gut thought and I have no inside intel.
Y y'all got dis huge pile of wood thinkin' FF, hey?
Yeah I'd be more than happy with sweet 16. Let's see what happens after a couple Villanova games.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 03, 2019, 08:01:00 AM
Y y'all got dis huge pile of wood thinkin' FF, hey?
(https://thumbs.dreamstime.com/z/pile-wood-28126501.jpg)
At the start of this year, I thought Markus had, at best, a 10% chance of playing in the NBA. Now I would put that at a solid 50% chance.
His improvement at PG has been better than I could have hoped for. He still has a loose handle, but is a great score first PG. He is getting better and better at seeing the entire floor and I expect that to continue. A guy like Curry averages a TO per 10 minutes which is just slightly less than MH this year - his first year at PG.
He is giving Earl Tatum a run for the money as my favorite Warrior ever.
Will markus play in the NBA? Yes. Will he last..imo not.long. guys under six feet dont have a good track record as of late. Larkin was quicker and better with the ball and he was out of the league quick. We have seen elite college shooters reach the nba and the jumper doesn't translate as well as you would think. I don't markus being able to guard tall guards or create a shot for.himself. just not quick enough.
Quote from: Johnny B on February 03, 2019, 03:12:26 PM
Will markus play in the NBA? Yes. Will he last..imo not.long. guys under six feet dont have a good track record as of late. Larkin was quicker and better with the ball and he was out of the league quick. We have seen elite college shooters reach the nba and the jumper doesn't translate as well as you would think. I don't markus being able to guard tall guards or create a shot for.himself. just not quick enough.
Markus is significantly better than Isaish Thomas (5'8") at the same age and IT finished top 5 in MVP voting while averaging 29 ppg less than 2 years ago
If MH wuz like Tiny Archibald, he'd bee a shoo-in. Den again, if Uncle Joe had a 'gina, he'd bee Aunt Mary, hey?
This article about Kemba Walker's dismantling of the Bulls over the weekend, combined with a quick view of the highlight video within it, gives an idea of what a little guy needs to do to succeed in the NBA.
https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nba/charlotte-hornets/article225085915.html?#emlnl=Sports_Newsletter&id=bWlrZW5hZGVsQHNiY2dsb2JhbC5uZXQ=
Can Markus convince a few NBA execs/coaches that he can be the next Kemba, to whom he has been compared by some Scoopers (including me)? That's still to be determined.
On another note ... Jordan has been criticized, and rightly so, for many of his draft picks. But he pounded the table for Kemba, and many thought the Hornets (then Bobcats) had picked him too early (9th overall). So maybe it's a case where even a blind squirrel ...
Can Markus match Kemba's measurements?
5-11.5 barefoot
6-3.5 wingspan
32 inch vertical/39.5 inch max vertical
I don't think Markus can match those measurements. A smaller, slower, less athletic Kemba Walker would not be the same NBA player.
Quote from: Lazar's Headband on February 04, 2019, 08:56:32 AM
Can Markus match Kemba's measurements?
5-11.5 barefoot
6-3.5 wingspan
32 inch vertical/39.5 inch max vertical
I don't think Markus can match those measurements. A smaller, slower, less athletic Kemba Walker would not be the same NBA player.
I won't dispute a thing you say here, and in the past I have referred to Markus as "Kemba Lite."
I'd even allow he might be Kemba Very Lite.
Just saying this is the way Markus needs to play if he has hope for any kind of NBA career.
I have been on the record as saying that although I love Markus' game for the college level and I'm thrilled we have him, I have trouble seeing his game translate to the NBA. Too short, not quite enough handle, not quite enough "PG court vision," and (as you say) not as athletic as Kemba.
I am usually all for players going pro early if they can. If they can make an NBA roster, I don't want to see a first rounder or even a high second rounder who is sure they'll be on the bench of an NBA team back at MU. I want them to take advantage and get that first contract in the NBA as soon as possible.
However, in Howard's case, I don't see coming back as hurting him. Sure he could have a terrible season or he could get hurt. But, in reality everyone knows his limits and those limits really can't be worked on or changed. I don't think he is harmed by coming back, unlike a guy like Ellenson, who could have been exposed with another season at MU as unable to shoot the ball and entering a draft with better players if he came back.
So, unless something happens where Howard blows up and is a hot item. I hope he does come back after exploring his NBA potential. Unlike most players, I don't see much harm in coming back for another season. However, I also don't see much upside, either.
Quote from: GOO on February 04, 2019, 09:12:54 AM
I am usually all for players going pro early if they can. If they can make an NBA roster, I don't want to see a first rounder or even a high second rounder who is sure they'll be on the bench of an NBA team back at MU. I want them to take advantage and get that first contract in the NBA as soon as possible.
However, in Howard's case, I don't see coming back as hurting him. Sure he could have a terrible season or he could get hurt. But, in reality everyone knows his limits and those limits really can't be worked on or changed. I don't think he is harmed by coming back, unlike a guy like Ellenson, who could have been exposed with another season at MU as unable to shoot the ball and entering a draft with better players if he came back.
So, unless something happens where Howard blows up and is a hot item. I hope he does come back after exploring his NBA potential. Unlike most players, I don't see much harm in coming back for another season. However, I also don't see much upside, either.
Fair points here.
Henry leaving was an absolute no-brainer. Markus ... all kinds of things for him to think about. Whatever he decides, it will be very interesting to hear his decision (and reasons for it) when the day comes.
Knot sew interestin', Nads. Follow da bread, aina?
Quote from: Ellenson Family Reunion on February 03, 2019, 04:06:53 PM
Markus is significantly better than Isaish Thomas (5'8") at the same age and IT finished top 5 in MVP voting while averaging 29 ppg less than 2 years ago
So 1 guy? Lol.
Plus that 1 guy while he could score was long considered a liability in other aspects. Thus played a 6 man role a lot of the time, was traded a lot. Ultimately the celts got rid of him. And now his career is already potentially finish by 30.
He's easily the best of the lot. But the little body isn't holding up.
Quote from: PGsHeroes32 on February 04, 2019, 10:57:45 AM
So 1 guy? Lol.
Plus that 1 guy while he could score was long considered a liability in other aspects. Thus played a 6 man role a lot of the time, was traded a lot. Ultimately the celts got rid of him. And now his career is already potentially finish by 30.
He's easily the best of the lot. But the little body isn't holding up.
Also, not for nothing both IT and a similar guy like Nate Robinson, are both much more athletic than Markus. They can throw down hard at the rim. Unless he's hiding something we've not seen, Markus doesn't have that vertical. Which is a very useful tool for shooting over longer defenders and exploding up and past your man when you lack height and/or length
Love Markus, but this game demonstrates why i don't think he would get drafted first round this year. The NBA is full of long guards, quick guards like STJ. Hey have had Markus' number this year. I think another year honing he PG skills will get him drafted early second round next year.
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on February 05, 2019, 09:13:54 PM
Love Markus, but this game demonstrates why i don't think he would get drafted first round this year. The NBA is full of long guards, quick guards like STJ. Hey have had Markus' number this year. I think another year honing he PG skills will get him drafted early second round next year.
I agree with this. Guards with long wingspans are Markus' kryptonite.
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on February 05, 2019, 09:13:54 PM
Love Markus, but this game demonstrates why i don't think he would get drafted first round this year. The NBA is full of long guards, quick guards like STJ. Hey have had Markus' number this year. I think another year honing he PG skills will get him drafted early second round next year.
Draftexpress already said next year, no reputable outfit has this year first round.
Quote from: Cheeks on February 05, 2019, 09:19:27 PM
Draftexpress already said next year, no reputable outfit has this year first round.
do they have high second round? and at what point does the guaranteed money stop? - legit questions, not loaded or leading :)
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on February 05, 2019, 09:24:40 PM
do they have high second round? and at what point does the guaranteed money stop? - legit questions, not loaded or leading :)
No guaranteed money after the first round, depending on what kind of deal a team signs you to if you're a 2nd rounder or undrafted.
Is ponds in the first round? i really don't want to play him again haha!
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on February 05, 2019, 09:36:15 PM
Is ponds in the first round? i really don't want to play him again haha!
No he's a second round pick if drafted, but it's fairly common knowledge that this will be his last season of college
Quote from: goldeneagle91114 on February 05, 2019, 09:36:15 PM
Is ponds in the first round? i really don't want to play him again haha!
Neither of them have a legitimate shot in the NBA or are getting drafted in the first round this year.
Quote from: Smokin' Jae on February 05, 2019, 09:49:11 PM
No he's a second round pick if drafted, but it's fairly common knowledge that this will be his last season of college
Thank god!
Ponds is much more NBA ready then Markus, one reason, taller, second reason, stronger p
Quote from: BCHoopster on February 05, 2019, 09:58:19 PM
Ponds is much more NBA ready then Markus, one reason, taller, second reason, stronger p
Third way more athletic.
All Markus will face in the NBA is guards who are 6 inches taller and more athletic.
Quote from: tower912 on February 06, 2019, 06:02:10 AM
All Markus will face in the NBA is guards who are 6 inches taller and more athletic.
True. He also won't be a primary option and won't see double teams very often.
Quote from: MUeagle1090 on February 06, 2019, 09:37:38 AM
True. He also won't be a primary option and won't see double teams very often.
This is a fine point. If even one NBA GM and/or coach convinces himself that Markus will be a viable floor-spacer who can just stand at the arc waiting for a pass on the PG's drive-and-kick, he has a chance to get drafted. There is such a premium on shooting 3s and spacing the floor now.
If the GM/coach also can convince himself that Markus' defensive shortcomings can be hidden and that Markus can improve his handle enough to play a little PG himself, all the better for Markus. Maybe he can be a better-shooting version of J.J. Barea -- and I say that as a compliment not a slight. Barea is in his 13th season in the NBA and has made $33 million!
Kemba Walker is an NBA all star. He carried UCONN to a national championship.
Howard is having a great career but I'm not even sure I'd be comfortable comparing him to Jimmer Fredette.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on February 06, 2019, 12:13:34 PM
Kemba Walker is an NBA all star. He carried UCONN to a national championship.
Howard is having a great career but I'm not even sure I'd be comfortable comparing him to Jimmer Fredette.
Markus is better than Fredette. Better shooter. Better ball handler. Better defender. Smaller but a lot quicker.
Markus is obviously not Kemba.
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on February 06, 2019, 12:13:34 PM
Kemba Walker is an NBA all star. He carried UCONN to a national championship.
When Kemba was midway through his junior season at UConn, he was not yet an NBA All-Star and he had not yet carried UConn to a national championship.
But no, of course it's not Markus = Kemba.
I don't know anybody here who said that was the case. I, for one, said only that Markus' game has similarities to Kemba's and that they have a similar build.
Did see this anywhere yet.
https://gomarquette.com/news/2019/2/6/mens-basketball-howard-named-to-oscar-robertson-final-midseason-watch-list.aspx
Quote from: MU82 on February 07, 2019, 09:10:43 AM
I, for one, said only that Markus' game has similarities to Kemba's and that they have a similar build.
Walker is listed at 6'1", 184. Markus is listed at 5' 11" and 175. I have no idea if Kemba's height and weight are accurate, but I'm pretty sure Markus's aren't. My guess is he's 5'9" and maybe 160.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 07, 2019, 01:19:00 PM
Walker is listed at 6'1", 184. Markus is listed at 5' 11" and 175. I have no idea if Kemba's height and weight are accurate, but I'm pretty sure Markus's aren't. My guess is he's 5'9" and maybe 160.
I believe they are of similar dimensions. You certainly are free to argue semantics about "similar" if you want.