M2N to the Draft?

[TheREALwrk]

Been keeping my eye on the draft boards these past few weeks and Markus is absolutely flying up draft boards.

NBADraft.net has him at 41 as of last night: https://www.nbadraft.net/2019mock_draft

I don't have ESPN Insider but a buddy who does say there's plenty of rumors swirling that Markus is going to go - and I wouldn't blame him. What else does he have to prove? Kid can score night in and night out. How much higher can he go? Sure, he can improve his handles and decision making but he can do that in the league, getting paid (see Curry, Steph).

Remember when Vander went and everyone was upset? His reasoning was that he's topped out. His stock wouldn't get any higher as a senior. He carried us to the Elite 8 and he didn't need to prove anything else. Whether he was right or wrong (undrafted, remember), doesn't matter. The fact is that these kids think about these things and they have "handlers" (hate that term) who build them up at any and all times.

At the very least he will declare without an agent this year. He'd be absolutely foolish not to do so. We have to be prepared for a Markus-less season next year. Happy we have Koby. Would have been nice to have Mannion. Maybe Torrence will re-classify if Markus goes. I'm sure those two talk about it - Torrence gauging Markus' desire to leave.

I've gone both ways with the M2N argument in the past few weeks. "He can't, he shouldn't". I hope no one gets upset if he does - the kid has given our program so much. We need to support him either way.

One thing I've been thinking about it his desire to bring MU to a final four. If we get there this year (or even Elite 8) I think he definitely goes. If we lose the first weekend, does he come back with the #UnfinishedBusiness mindset? Who knows. Been on my mind and I wanted to start a discussion.

[MU82]

Wouldn't surprise me if Markus goes. Wouldn't surprise me if he stays.

Wouldn't upset me if he goes. Obviously would be thrilled if he stays.

Question for those who know these things: What is the deadline for Torrence to declare whether he is in the 2019 or 2020 recruiting class?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Question for those who know these things: What is the deadline for Torrence to declare whether he is in the 2019 or 2020 recruiting class?

Whatever the deadline is for him to enroll in fall 2019 classes

[MU82]

Whatever the deadline is for him to enroll in fall 2019 classes

Thanks, TAMU. So as long as he has completed all of his HS academic requirements (or will by the end of the summer), it sounds like he can just wait to see if Markus leaves and then say, "I'm all yours, Wojo."

That's cool. I like it when the athlete has control.

[BCHoopster]

If he is not a first round pick then he stays, guaranteed money like Henry is hard to pass up, 2nd rounders are guaranteed nothing but a few meals and play in Vegas
in the summer, hoping to make a team.  Malcolm Brodgon is an expection, but he is much bigger than Markus.  Markus is truly having a great year and should go to the
tryouts after the season to see where he stands.  His improvement this year has been amazing.  Been watching MU hoops for 50 years, best guard ever at MU when
it comes to scoring.  Dean the Dream the best point guard,  Markus the best combo guard.  One thing in MU favor is that he is only 19.  That is amazing.

Whatever he does, MU will be fine with Koby, Elliott and maybe Torrence.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

I think he goes if he thinks he'll be a first rounder.  I think he stays if he doesn't.  I think Markus would much prefer to play his senior season at Marquette than play in the D league. 

One thing that doesn't hurt with respect to Markus playing out his eligibility is his age.  He is 19.  He won't turn 20 until March.  He'd be 21 for the 2020 draft as a just graduated senior.  Most kids that play out their eligibility are 1-3 years older.  I don't necessarily think playing his senior season could HURT his draft stock.  He's likely a 2nd rounder regardless.  He likely knows he is a gadgety / niche player in the NBA, and that waiting 1 more year isn't going to change that regardless. 

I still think he stays.  He's a smart kid.  I am sure he wants his degree.  I am sure he wants to finish his business with Sam and Sacar.  Now if Marquette goes and wins the Natty ship in 2 months, my position may change. 

[Nukem2]

Whatever the deadline is for him to enroll in fall 2019 classes

Though he would have to have his required HS credits and be certified by the NCAA Eligibility Center, so things would be a bit earlier than the deadline date for enrollment.

[MomofMUltiples]

I have a sense that Markus's "handlers" (mom, dad, two older brothers) will provide him with good advice as he makes this decision.  I hope he does make the league, and is successful there. Next year or the year after is really up to him. I have confidence he'll make the right decision for himself. I felt differently about Vander.

[MU82]

If he is not a first round pick then he stays, guaranteed money like Henry is hard to pass up, 2nd rounders are guaranteed nothing but a few meals and play in Vegas
in the summer, hoping to make a team.  Malcolm Brodgon is an expection, but he is much bigger than Markus.

BCH, you are using logic. These decisions often are not made pragmatically by the kids.

If Markus is BE POY, first-team All-American and leads us to a deep tourney run, it's very easy to envision him saying, "I've accomplished everything I set out to accomplish at Marquette, and then some. And I think I've got a better chance to make it in the NBA than the 'experts' do. I'm going."

I am not at all predicting that's what will happen, and I have seen no evidence here that a single one of us Scoopers knows what is in Markus' head (surely I don't), but it's very easy to envision that scenario.

[Pakuni]

BCH, you are using logic. These decisions often are not made pragmatically by the kids.

If Markus is BE POY, first-team All-American and leads us to a deep tourney run, it's very easy to envision him saying, "I've accomplished everything I set out to accomplish at Marquette, and then some. And I think I've got a better chance to make it in the NBA than the 'experts' do. I'm going."

I am not at all predicting that's what will happen, and I have seen no evidence here that a single one of us Scoopers knows what is in Markus' head (surely I don't), but it's very easy to envision that scenario.

I wouldn't say Markus leaving under the scenario you've laid out here is unpragmatic or illogical.
Playing basketball for money (even tax-free Euros) instead of playing basketball for free makes tons of sense, pragmatically speaking.

[BCHoopster]

BCH, you are using logic. These decisions often are not made pragmatically by the kids.

If Markus is BE POY, first-team All-American and leads us to a deep tourney run, it's very easy to envision him saying, "I've accomplished everything I set out to accomplish at Marquette, and then some. And I think I've got a better chance to make it in the NBA than the 'experts' do. I'm going."

I am not at all predicting that's what will happen, and I have seen no evidence here that a single one of us Scoopers knows what is in Markus' head (surely I don't), but it's very easy to envision that scenario.

Your absolutely right, big run in tourny will give him huge exposure, but I remember a great player who did the same and an absolute bust in the NBA, Jimmer Ferdette.
Not saying it will happen to Markus but small guards can not D up in the NBA.  Can you see him guarding Bledsoe or Brodgon, they would take him
right to the hoop.  Give him one more year to get stronger might help.

[GrimmReaper33]

Probably a 50/50 shot.  If he goes someone will take him in the 2nd round, and at minimum he'll get a 2 way contract.  Is that enough for him to go, who knows?  Will coming back an extra year improve his draft stock?  Probably not, there's not much left for him to prove.  Everyone knows what he is- an elite shooter and scorer, but undersized.

He'll declare for the draft without an agent and then who knows what can happen.  If he really impresses in workouts or at the combine, maybe a couple teams assure him they'd take him in the first round.  All it takes is one team to fall in love with you. 

One factor that I don't know enough about- is either of the 2019 or 2020 draft classes deemed superior by NBA scouts?  If the 2020 draft class is considered much stronger, it is probably in his best interest to go after this year.

[TheREALwrk]

All it takes is one team to fall in love with you. 

Scary thought. Hard not to fall in love with the kid, ai'na? I know I am.

[Pakuni]

Give him one more year to get stronger might help.

They have strength programs in the pros, too.
The truth is that there's nothing holding Markus back from the NBA that's going to get better with another year at Marquette (i.e. he's not getting taller or more explosive/athletic). Any other weaknesses, i.e. strength, ballhandling, PG skills, he can work on just as easily as a pro as he can at Marquette ... probably moreso since he won't have to deal with pesky classes and whatnot.
Realistically, the only thing that should keep Markus at MU is a strong desire not to play in the G league or Europe. If he has reason to believe he'll be on an NBA roster, he should go pro.

[Juan Anderson's Mixtape]

At this point, I expect Markus will be back next year but I won't be shocked if he leaves.  I expect Markus to go through the process,  gather all the information,  and make the decision he feels is best for him.  I will support him in whatever decision he makes.

Until then, I am going to enjoy every second that Markus wears a Marquette uniform.   Just like I did for Wade and Ellenson.

If Markus leaves, next year will still be fun.  Kobe, Greg, and Symir reclassifying would soften the blow.  Sam and Joey are capable of being a heck of a one-two punch.  Plus the defense should be good again.   Of course the team would be better with Markus but I am not worried about the  thought of a no-Markus team next year.

[Lighthouse 84]

I'm still trying to figure out how this thread is different than "Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?" 

[StillAWarrior]

I'm still trying to figure out how this thread is different than "Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?" 

This one goes to 11

[TheREALwrk]

I'm still trying to figure out how this thread is different than "Do you expect Markus back for his senior year?" 

Missed it - my B!

[Mr. Sand-Knit]

Scary thought. Hard not to fall in love with the kid, ai'na? I know I am.

H or NH?

[Goose]

The way he has shot the ball season this season has changed things for me. If I had to make a bet on going or staying, I would take him leaving after this season. I never fault anyone fr chasing a dream and try to never second guess someone's decision. If he were my son and he asked my thoughts, I would tell him to go get paid and enjoy himself.

[Silkk the Shaka]

Your absolutely right, big run in tourny will give him huge exposure, but I remember a great player who did the same and an absolute bust in the NBA, Jimmer Ferdette.
Not saying it will happen to Markus but small guards can not D up in the NBA.  Can you see him guarding Bledsoe or Brodgon, they would take him
right to the hoop.  Give him one more year to get stronger might help.

Except... Jimmer never had a deep tourney run (maxed out at S16), and he didn't leave early.

Regardless, he's currently making very nice coin in China after making $8.5 mil over 5 years in the NBA. If that's a horror story...

So:
1.) The situations aren't analagous
2.) Markus > Jimmer
3.) $10mil+ is not an argument that he should not leave

[TheREALwrk]

H or NH?

[Marcus92]

The comp that KenPom makes is Sean Singletary. A 6-0 PG who scored 2,000 points at Virginia before being selected by Sacramento in the 2nd round of the 2008 NBA Draft. He spent a couple seasons on NBA rosters, then finished out his career in Europe and the D League.

No comp is perfect. Far from it. Sean was a better defender. Markus is a better shooter and scorer. But they're remarkably similar in terms of being playmakers/distributors at this point in their respective college careers.

I hope Markus surprises everyone and not only makes it to the NBA but thrives. If he's drafted after this season, it's going to be because the team accomplished something very special (like a Final Four appearance). Nobody holds it against Dwyane Wade for leaving a year early after leading MU to its first FF in a quarter century.

[MU82]

Except... Jimmer never had a deep tourney run (maxed out at S16), and he didn't leave early.

Regardless, he's currently making very nice coin in China after making $8.5 mil over 5 years in the NBA. If that's a horror story...

So:
1.) The situations aren't analagous
2.) Markus > Jimmer
3.) $10mil+ is not an argument that he should not leave

This.

And furthermore, most accomplished athletes don't think along the lines of "So-and-so failed, so I'd better be careful because I don't want to fail." They think: "I'm twice as good as so-and-so, and just because he failed it doesn't mean I will. In fact, I know I'm gonna make it."

[4everwarriors]

Goin' no matta. Da sun comes up tomarra regardless, hey?