1. MU fought it's ass off, but.....
2. Wiscy is good.
3. The zone is solid, but...
4. Bo knows how to beat a zone.
5. MU attacked, but...
6. Wiscy contested everything in close.
7. Not going to criticize anyone because everyone fought.
8. Sometimes, size, skill, and experience matter.
9. Luke is eligible the next time MU plays. Let's hope everybody gets through finals.
10. NJIT beat Michigan.
Wisconsin may be good Tower, but the fact that they look very pedestrian against our team which we know is not a good team makes me think they're overhyped some.
Good synopsis - I agree completely. We lost to a better team.
You can't teach height.
Pretty much the outcome that was expected.
Slightly surprised by Wisconsin's struggles, actually. Not sure that had anything to do with us, but still.
Where was Burton this game? Is his lack of minutes reflective of his mental state, physical state or Wojo's assessment of his current ability?
Madison = soft. We're just too small and young.
Our All American PG #12 scored 1 point......
Sheesh.
Anything inside 5ft was not falling for MU and they weren't getting any calls on
the drives
Quote from: mattyv1908 on December 06, 2014, 01:28:54 PM
Wisconsin may be good Tower, but the fact that they look very pedestrian against our team which we know is not a good team makes me think they're overhyped some.
The zone was good. And Wiscy is coming off of the Due game. Wiscy is going to be the class of the B1G.
Quote from: Nevada233 on December 06, 2014, 01:29:45 PM
Our All American PG #12 scored 1 point......
Sheesh.
If Dawson transfers, will you stop posting?
You bring a lot to this board, granted. But every now and then you post things like this. With no provocation. And many other problems with many players today.
Quote from: Nevada233 on December 06, 2014, 01:29:45 PM
Our All American PG #12 scored 1 point......
Sheesh.
Classy.
Quote from: Nevada233 on December 06, 2014, 01:29:45 PM
Our All American PG #12 scored 1 point......
Sheesh.
And our 5 top 100 recruits (plus the 1 non-top 100 recruit) over the past 3 classes scored a combined 16 points. So what's your point? You're not very intelligent, are you?
We played hard and fairly we'll, but the last 10 minutes was not a good display offensively. Too many forced shots, some of which can be attributed to youth and/or inexperience. Cohen looked good out there, IMO. Valuable minutes for him.
Wisconsin does not look like the same team as a year ago. They're very good, but something seems to be missing.
Wisconsin. Size inside wins it for them.
MU tells us more about UW, then UW tells us about MU.
My takeaways. UW is good, they will win a lot of games, but this is not a final 4 team. First team that can match up with them size wise beats them. They are not particularly athletic, can't stop penetration and rely on pure size to avoid being destroyed on drives.
Against teams with adequate size and good guards they will lose, AKA Duke. Duke had the bigs to match up and Jones was able to dominate them. Other teams like Kansas, UK, Arizona, UNC, UCLA, even Mich. ST., will be able to beat them.
Quote from: Nevada233 on December 06, 2014, 01:29:45 PM
Our All American PG #12 scored 1 point......
Sheesh.
Give it up dude. At least try to bring some sort of analysis to the table other than looking at the box score.
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 06, 2014, 01:31:40 PM
If Dawson transfers, will you stop posting?
You bring a lot to this board, granted. But every now and then you post things like this. With no provocation. And many other problems with many players today.
Dude, your are the biggest whinebag on this board. U provoke little fights with your sarcastic remarks and piss and moan about anyone that doesn't have the same view as you.
Nevada, if you can find a single post where someone claimed Derrick was an all american in something other than a sarcastic fashion, and I will take the rest of the month off from the board. You know that no one has. I know that no one has. How many points did anyone other than Carlino score today? Geeezzzus.
Quote from: g0lden3agle on December 06, 2014, 01:34:05 PM
Give it up dude. At least try to bring some sort of analysis to the table other than looking at the box score.
Here's an analysis. Our senior PG is terrible and bogs down our offense considerably. 0-5 on field goal attempts and every one of them was a drive to the hoop. Just brutal
Quote from: tower912 on December 06, 2014, 01:30:28 PM
The zone was good. And Wiscy is coming off of the Due game. Wiscy is going to be the class of the B1G.
If that's the case (and you may be right) then I'll predict right now we won't see one single B1G team get past the round of 16 this year.
Fought their asses off. Played D. Gritty.
Wojo had a plan and the guys executed. Badgers just too big and experienced. Never happy losing to the D Bag-ders, but the future is bright.
Quote from: Wojo'sMojo on December 06, 2014, 01:34:31 PM
Dude, your are the biggest whinebag on this board. U provoke little fights with your sarcastic remarks and piss and moan about anyone that doesn't have the same view as you.
Everyone is entitled to their views. But if they totally go against the constructs of logic, that should be acknowledged.
also, your vs you're
Ran our of gas. Wisconsin is not that good.
Didn't like the offensive strategy. We kept trying to force it in the paint and got blocked repeatedly. Would have like to seen a few more outside shots.
Deonte and JJJ looked awful on both sides of the court (besides Deonte's three).
Derrick looked like last year's version of himself on offense, definitely a step back. Solid defense.
Giving the ball to Duane tonight basically equaled a turnover. 1-9 shooting. Kid took wild drive after wild drive. His defense did look improved though.
Good effort today. Played pretty tough D just not enough rebounding. MU missing a few pieces which will hopefully be here next year.
Quote from: Wojo'sMojo on December 06, 2014, 01:36:11 PM
Here's an analysis. Our senior PG is terrible and bogs down our offense considerably. 0-5 on field goal attempts and every one of them was a drive to the hoop. Just brutal
What'd anybody not named Matt Carlino do?
Absolutely silly to complain about 1 guy when 7 of 8 who played played really bad offensively. Maybe Cohen, but he's not going to come in and play point guard so...
Seriously though, what do people see in dekker?
Weakside rebounds killed us
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400588356
Carlino 18. Everybody else 20.
Quote from: Wojo'sMojo on December 06, 2014, 01:36:11 PM
Here's an analysis. Our senior PG is terrible and bogs down our offense considerably. 0-5 on field goal attempts and every one of them was a drive to the hoop. Just brutal
Kind of sounds like Duane Wilson. 1-9 from the field. 1-7 on drives to the hoop.
Or JJJ. 0-4 from the field. At least on ill advsed three over Kaminsky (didn't see the other one) and two wild drives.
Point is, there is plenty of blame to go around. Not just for your favorite whipping boy.
Quote from: ChitownJuan on December 06, 2014, 01:41:14 PM
Seriously though, what do people see in dekker?
A soft wannabe pretty boy?
Quote from: tower912 on December 06, 2014, 01:42:59 PM
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=400588356
Carlino 18. Everybody else 20.
Sheesh... The Wilsons had a rough day.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 06, 2014, 01:43:12 PM
Kind of sounds like Duane Wilson. 1-9 from the field. 1-7 on drives to the hoop.
Or JJJ. 0-4 from the field. At least on ill advsed three over Kaminsky (didn't see the other one) and two wild drives.
Point is, there is plenty of blame to go around. Not just for your favorite whipping boy.
Duane also had the best defensive player in big 10 face guarding him all game and nobody was guarding Derrick but let's just not pay attention to that.
I think this was Teves best game of the season.
Carline, Deonte, Cohen 8-13. Everybody else, 5-32. Nobody is putting this one on a highlight reel. Learn your lessons, move on, hope that Luke is good.
If this team(and incoming recruits) continues to fight the way the team currently is. We are going to be mother effing deadly when the experience and talent catch up to the heart.
If the team keeps improving throughout the year I am not ruling out a nice garden showing
Quote from: ChitownJuan on December 06, 2014, 01:47:00 PM
I think this was Teves best game of the season.
Are you kidding me? Based on what?
JaJuan Johnson sucks, period. He's good in the open court, horrid in the halfcourt.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 06, 2014, 01:43:12 PM
Kind of sounds like Duane Wilson. 1-9 from the field. 1-7 on drives to the hoop.
Or JJJ. 0-4 from the field. At least on ill advsed three over Kaminsky (didn't see the other one) and two wild drives.
Point is, there is plenty of blame to go around. Not just for your favorite whipping boy.
I agree. Plenty of blame to go around. These two players are not our senior pg though. He showed absolutely nothing today and might as well not even suited up.
In order to beat a team like Wisconsin when you're a team like Marquette, you have to play perfectly. No mistakes. None, zippo.
We turned the ball over too many times. It wasn't awful but just wasn't good enough to beat Wisconsin. Our defense was good but not great enough to beat a Top 10 team (I think they are overrated at 2).
I'm encouraged and think this bath of fire will help us come conference time. Based on what I saw today and have seen, our best outcome for 2014-2015 is to be the last team in the NCAA. There is something I like about these guys. I think they're tough and they don't quit.
Both are an improvement over last year.
I'd like to see Cohen get some more minutes
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 06, 2014, 01:49:02 PM
Are you kidding me? Based on what?
Twice as many defensive rebounds as last game!
2-1Even with the chance to spend time out of the 5 spot, don't see how his minutes aren't cut significantly with Fischer entering the rotation.
Duane Wilson had a really poor game today. That will happen, he's a redshirt freshman just underway in his career. He'll bounce back.
But other than him, we have zero firepower beyond Carlino right now. Steve Taylor except for OSU game has been a big disappointment so far. I know he's playing out of position, but he should be producing more than he is offesnively.
I didn't expect to win today, but the lack of firepower on this team is striking.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 06, 2014, 01:55:19 PM
JaJuan Johnson sucks, period. He's good in the open court, horrid in the halfcourt.
JJJ is clearly not where he wants to be, or where Wojo wants him to be. Yet. Too early to throw him under the bus.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 06, 2014, 01:49:02 PM
Are you kidding me? Based on what?
His interior defense today was great.
Quote from: LAZER on December 06, 2014, 01:57:13 PM
I'd like to see Cohen get some more minutes
Absolutely, and take minutes away from JaJuan who can't play.
Quote from: tower912 on December 06, 2014, 01:27:12 PM
10. NJIT beat Michigan.
11. U. of S. Carolina Upstate beat Georgia Tech 59-54
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 06, 2014, 01:55:19 PM
JaJuan Johnson sucks, period. He's good in the open court, horrid in the halfcourt.
Wow, how dare you criticize one of our players.
Quote from: MARQ_13 on December 06, 2014, 01:46:08 PM
Duane also had the best defensive player in big 10 face guarding him all game and nobody was guarding Derrick but let's just not pay attention to that.
?
Nothing in your post is true. Neither Gasser nor Jackson are the best defensive players in the B1G and Derrick was being face guarded.
Quote from: tower912 on December 06, 2014, 01:58:13 PM
JJJ is clearly not where he wants to be, or where Wojo wants him to be. Yet. Too early to throw him under the bus.
At what point do we just be honest and admit he can't play? Since UT-Martin, the guy's barely been noticeable except for bricking shots offensively. This on a nine player team, and following a disappointing freshman season.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 06, 2014, 01:58:03 PM
But other than him, we have zero firepower beyond Carlino right now.
Zero CONSISTENT firepower. Going into the season, this was one of the givens. There have been flashes, but this is still a young, inexperienced, short team. Nothing has changed. There have already been highs, but to expect it all to gel and be consistent by now is unreasonable.
Quote from: Wojo'sMojo on December 06, 2014, 01:56:27 PM
I agree. Plenty of blame to go around. These two players are not our senior pg though. He showed absolutely nothing today and might as well not even suited up.
You continue to only look at one side of the ball. Derrick's defense today was fantastic.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 06, 2014, 02:00:45 PM
?
Nothing in your post is true. Neither Gasser nor Jackson are the best defensive players in the B1G and Derrick was being face guarded.
Cmon TAMU, being face guarded lol. We must not have been watching the same game.
Quote from: ChitownJuan on December 06, 2014, 01:58:44 PM
His interior defense today was great.
He was competent defensively, far from "great".
Quote from: chapman on December 06, 2014, 01:57:55 PM
Twice as many defensive rebounds as last game! 2-1
Even with the chance to spend time out of the 5 spot, don't see how his minutes aren't cut significantly with Fischer entering the rotation.
He will be much better when he is on the court with Fisher.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 06, 2014, 02:01:12 PM
At what point do we just be honest and admit he can't play? Since UT-Martin, the guy's barely been noticeable except for bricking shots offensively. This on a nine player team, and following a disappointing freshman season.
Not yet. I still think he becomes a player. I just hope no one is still saying he should have played more last year.
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 06, 2014, 01:41:30 PM
Weakside rebounds killed us
23% 2 point field goals also
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 06, 2014, 02:01:51 PM
You continue to only look at one side of the ball. Derrick's defense today was fantastic.
Derrick's stat line today: 35 minutes, 1 pt, 1 steal, 2 assists, and 3 rebounds. Not even Gary Payton's defense, which Derrick is nowhere close to, makes up for that putrid output. I feel like I'm watching a rerun of last season and it's enough to make me want to take a break until next year.
Quote from: tower912 on December 06, 2014, 02:04:22 PM
Not yet. I still think he becomes a player. I just hope no one is still saying he should have played more last year.
After UT Martin, I held out hope that I had been wrong all offseason about JJJ. The seven games since have validated my opinion of him. I wish I could share your optimism, but he's shown no reason to be optimistic. You need much better players at this level than him.
There is going to be ample opportunity for him the rest of the year to show he belongs. If, by the end of the season, he hasn't progressed, I will be concerned. But I never give up.
Quote from: Wojo'sMojo on December 06, 2014, 02:09:46 PM
Derrick's stat line today: 35 minutes, 1 pt, 1 steal, 2 assists, and 3 rebounds. Not even Gary Payton's defense, which Derrick is nowhere close to, makes up for that putrid output. I feel like I'm watching a rerun of last season and it's enough to make me want to take a break until next year.
That would be fantastic!
Quote from: tower912 on December 06, 2014, 01:27:12 PM
1. MU fought it's ass off, but.....
2. Wiscy is good.
3. The zone is solid, but...
4. Bo knows how to beat a zone.
5. MU attacked, but...
6. Wiscy contested everything in close.
7. Not going to criticize anyone because everyone fought.
8. Sometimes, size, skill, and experience matter.
9. Luke is eligible the next time MU plays. Let's hope everybody gets through finals.
10. NJIT beat Michigan.
Excellent summary agree fully.
Quote from: forgetful on December 06, 2014, 01:33:44 PM
Wisconsin. Size inside wins it for them.
Against teams with adequate size and good guards they will lose, AKA Duke. Duke had the bigs to match up and Jones was able to dominate them. Other teams like Kansas, UK, Arizona, UNC, UCLA, even Mich. ST., will be able to beat them.
You do realize (?) that Duke won only because they barely missed a shot the entire game - shooting over 65%.
I will go out on a limb and say that won't happen again.
Quote from: Ellenson for an mu-rara on December 06, 2014, 01:36:46 PM
Fought their asses off. Played D. Gritty.
Wojo had a plan and the guys executed. Badgers just too big and experienced. Never happy losing to the D Bag-ders, but the future is bright.
+1
Outrebounded 41-28. Juan with 10. Deonte with 0 in 11 minutes. 6-14 from 3. Way to go, Deonte and Sandy. Wiscy took 30 3's. Made only 8. Thanks. Thought they did a poor job exploiting their interior height advantage.
Quote from: brandx on December 06, 2014, 02:20:38 PM
You do realize (?) that Duke won only because they barely missed a shot the entire game - shooting over 65%.
I will go out on a limb and say that won't happen again.
Yes, people are extrapolating way too much off one night where Duke played about as good as they can play.
Quote from: Wojo'sMojo on December 06, 2014, 02:09:46 PM
Derrick's stat line today: 35 minutes, 1 pt, 1 steal, 2 assists, and 3 rebounds. Not even Gary Payton's defense, which Derrick is nowhere close to, makes up for that putrid output. I feel like I'm watching a rerun of last season and it's enough to make me want to take a break until next year.
See ya!
The only thing you are good at, anyway, is carrying water for Chicos.
Yup.
If only our "Caretaker PG" could
just play defense and then not drive to the basket, get fouled shooting or have his defender sag off him rendering the Marquette offense to 4 on 5.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 06, 2014, 02:01:51 PM
You continue to only look at one side of the ball. Derrick's defense today was fantastic.
I happen to be quite optimistic right now. A few games to go before we start the BE schedule to get Luke acclimated.
This team played the #2 ranked team today and was down by 2 with 8 minutes left. Against another high-ranked team, we were down 5 at about the same point. With no center and 1 PF on the squad!
Now we will have some size. We won't be in the situation where we have a skinny 6'6" center and 6'4" PF on the floor at times.
We can beat anyone in the BE (except maybe Villanova). I won't be surprised by 11-7.
One thing that really surprised me about the game on Marquette's defensive end is how easily we discouraged shots and drives to the basket despite being completely outsized, not just height wise but weight wise. The Badgers played really soft for some reason.
Wisconsin is going no where if they don't get more aggressive and physical offensively. I have a funny feeling Bo will turn that around before season's end.
On the other side of the ball was the opposite problem. We tried too many times to take it to the teeth of the defense with size and numbers against us.
Please let one of the newcomers next season have a nice midrange/pull-up game. Anyone who could have done that today would have had 15+ points today easy. I was hoping Deonte would do it but played only 11 minutes. I guess his zone d just isn't there yet.
Quote from: brandx on December 06, 2014, 02:20:38 PM
You do realize (?) that Duke won only because they barely missed a shot the entire game - shooting over 65%.
I will go out on a limb and say that won't happen again.
Would you say the same thing about our losses to Ohio State and Michigan St, that they only won because they barely missed a shot the entire game?
No, why? Our weaknesses allowed them to do that. Similarly, UW's weaknesses allowed Duke to dominate on the Offensive end.
Quote from: brandx on December 06, 2014, 02:32:10 PM
I won't be surprised by 11-7.
I'd be almost shocked to be 11-7 in conference. But, I'll say this, Wojo can coach, he prepares his team well, and makes sound in-game decisions and adjustments, so maybe we can scratch and claw our way to .500 or better in conference, especially with Fischer on board going forward.
Quote from: forgetful on December 06, 2014, 02:43:19 PM
Would you say the same thing about our losses to Ohio State and Michigan St, that they only won because they barely missed a shot the entire game?
No, why? Our weaknesses allowed them to do that. Similarly, UW's weaknesses allowed Duke to dominate on the Offensive end.
No! No one else will shoot 65%+ against UW this season.
And we have given up good shooting games because we don't have guys who can play man-to-man defense.
You obviously didn't watch the UW-Duke game. Unlike OSU where it was a layup drill against us, Duke hit shots from all over the floor.
Fans have very short attention spans. I'm happy about today's loss. Never good to lose to the Badgers, but we played them tough. Can't wait to get Luke into the fold.
Quote from: Wojo'sMojo on December 06, 2014, 01:36:11 PM
Here's an analysis. Our senior PG is terrible and bogs down our offense considerably. 0-5 on field goal attempts and every one of them was a drive to the hoop. Just brutal
Here's an analysis of your analysis:!inaccurate. Derrick's 0-5 wasn't all on drives, it included a missed 3. If you're going to rip one of our guys the least you might want to do is watch the game and get your facts right.
Just thought that MU's offense was Dwil dribbling at the top of the key for 20 seconds, then pass to someone who would drive to the basket. MU threw up some circus shots that were terrible and Wisky blocked 6 others. Didn't understand why they continued to do that the entire game. Maybe trying to get the bigs in foul trouble, but didn't work out that way and still stayed with that strategy. Guess Wojo had a plan and sometimes it just doesn't pan out.
Quote from: jesmu84 on December 06, 2014, 01:31:40 PM
If Dawson transfers, will you stop posting?
You bring a lot to this board, granted. But every now and then you post things like this. With no provocation. And many other problems with many players today.
Done Deal!
Quote from: wadesworld on December 06, 2014, 01:32:35 PM
And our 5 top 100 recruits (plus the 1 non-top 100 recruit) over the past 3 classes scored a combined 16 points. So what's your point? You're not very intelligent, are you?
No kidding . JJJ was Top 35 and he still looks lost. no wonder Buzz planted his ass on the bench.
My biggest frustration for the game was Juan's offense. He would have a wide open look from three or mid-range...and then dribble it five times at Kaminsky, pick up his dribble, pivot a few times, and then pass it out. Kid is shooting 45% from three, he needs to take the open shots, especially when a rim defender like Kaminsky is waiting for him. Maybe he thinks Buzz is still here and he needs a paint touch before shooting?
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 06, 2014, 03:25:37 PM
My biggest frustration for the game was Juan's offense. He would have a wide open look from three or mid-range...and then dribble it five times at Kaminsky, pick up his dribble, pivot a few times, and then pass it out. Kid is shooting 45% from three, he needs to take the open shots, especially when a rim defender like Kaminsky is waiting for him. Maybe he thinks Buzz is still here and he needs a paint touch before shooting?
Yeah Juan is still pretty frustrating at times. It's almost like he thinks he's still a role player and him shooting is not what were looking for. But this year in this offense he needs to shoot.
Also, dudes gotta make his free throws.
We have to shoot better period.
Quote from: tower912 on December 06, 2014, 01:27:12 PM
1. MU fought it's ass off, but.....
2. Wiscy is good.
I agree we fought the good fight today, but Wisconsin looked pedestrian at best. Really didn't think they had much drive or emotion today. I, as well, thought we were in for a 20 point crushing. Glad that our guys played hard.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on December 06, 2014, 03:31:23 PM
Yeah Juan is still pretty frustrating at times. It's almost like he thinks he's still a role player and him shooting is not what were looking for. But this year in this offense he needs to shoot.
Also, dudes gotta make his free throws.
Juan is most certainly a role player, and we shouldn't look for him to put up many shots each game - he's best being a high energy guy on the glass and defense, and taking an occasional shot when it's there. He's never scored much before in his MU career, he's perimeter shooting has stunk for three plus years now. But now you and TAMU Eagle expect him to suddenly morph into this scorer for us? Not going to happen!!
This team needs guys like Burton, Taylor, Duane Wilson, and hopefully FIscher now that he's in the mix scoring. Those guys have shown a real ability on the offensive end. They're the ones that need to give Carlino support offensively. I'd include JaJuan in that group too, but he's a lost cause.
Quote from: tower912 on December 06, 2014, 01:27:12 PM
1. MU fought it's ass off, but.....
2. Wiscy is good.
3. The zone is solid, but...
4. Bo knows how to beat a zone.
5. MU attacked, but...
6. Wiscy contested everything in close.
7. Not going to criticize anyone because everyone fought.
8. Sometimes, size, skill, and experience matter.
9. Luke is eligible the next time MU plays. Let's hope everybody gets through finals.
10. NJIT beat Michigan.
A game like today is a little bit like playing the US Open in golf. It is a test that will expose your weaknesses . We fought hard yes , but we made a lot of bogeys and had very few birdies .
We have 4 games to get use to having Luke in the lineup. I am hoping that he is able to open things up for the likes of JJJ and Deonte.
Derrick should have been taken out of the game the last five minutes . It would have been worth seeing if someone else could get hot from 3 point range.
Quote from: Texas Western on December 06, 2014, 03:42:26 PM
A game like today is a little bit like playing the US Open in golf. It is a test that will expose your weaknesses . We fought hard yes , but we made a lot of bogeys and had very few birdies .
We have 4 games to get use to having Luke in the lineup. I am hoping that he is able to open things up for the likes of JJJ and Deonte.
Derrick should have been taken out of the game the last five minutes . It would have been worth seeing if someone else could get hot from 3 point range.
JaJuan, yeah, right, maybe Fischer will open up more bricks for him to chuck up!
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 06, 2014, 03:37:56 PM
This team needs guys like Burton, Taylor, Duane Wilson, and hopefully FIscher now that he's in the mix scoring. Those guys have shown a real ability on the offensive end. They're the ones that need to give Carlino support offensively. I'd include JaJuan in that group too, but he's a lost cause.
The problem is twofold. 1. They have shown a real liability on the defensive end and reboundng. 2. None of them have shown any consistency.
Quote from: Nevada233 on December 06, 2014, 01:29:45 PM
Our All American PG #12 scored 1 point......
Sheesh.
We are going nowhere if he keeps playing max minutes. Would rather see 10-15 of intense play as a back up.
Quote from: tower912 on December 06, 2014, 03:44:13 PM
The problem is twofold. 1. They have shown a real liability on the defensive end and reboundng. 2. None of them have shown any consistency.
Agree, but what are Wojo's options this year? This is the mostly crappy hand he's been dealt by his predecessor.
He is choosing the Derrick option. For the same reasons Buzz did.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 06, 2014, 03:37:56 PM
Juan is most certainly a role player, and we shouldn't look for him to put up many shots each game - he's best being a high energy guy on the glass and defense, and taking an occasional shot when it's there. He's never scored much before in his MU career, he's perimeter shooting has stunk for three plus years now. But now you and TAMU Eagle expect him to suddenly morph into this scorer for us? Not going to happen!!
This team needs guys like Burton, Taylor, Duane Wilson, and hopefully FIscher now that he's in the mix scoring. Those guys have shown a real ability on the offensive end. They're the ones that need to give Carlino support offensively. I'd include JaJuan in that group too, but he's a lost cause.
...You are aware that Juan is leading us in 3P% right? You also know he's also made the third most 3Ps on the team right? Juan can shoot the three. I'm not saying he should launch 5 a game. But if he's open, take the shot.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 06, 2014, 03:50:46 PM
...You are aware that Juan is leading us in 3P% right? You also know he's also made the third most 3Ps on the team right? Juan can shoot the three. I'm not saying he should launch 5 a game. But if he's open, take the shot.
He's attempted all of 11 threes on the year for God sake!! He's 22 for 79 for his career, a whopping 27%. If he's open, and if score and momentum are favorable, sure, put it up there Juan. Otherwise, the more he shoots out there, he'll just be coming back to the mean. He is what he is, and that is a marginal offensive player, but a solid energy guy. I believe 10 boards for him today. Play to your strengths for crying out loud.
Quote from: HutchwasClutch on December 06, 2014, 03:56:03 PM
He's attempted all of 11 threes on the year for God sake!! He's 22 for 79 for his career, a whopping 27%. If he's open, and if score and momentum are favorable, sure, put it up there Juan. Otherwise, the more he shoots out there, he'll just be coming back to the mean. He is what he is, and that is a marginal offensive player, but a solid energy guy. I believe 10 boards for him today. Play to your strengths for crying out loud.
Juan is 6-13 this season. Do you not believe in player development? All indications so far are that he has improved his outside shooting. He went 1-2 from three today. That's a lot better than his dribble straight at Kaminsky, pivot a few times, and pass strategy.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 06, 2014, 04:02:52 PM
Juan is 6-13 this season. Do you not believe in player development? All indications so far are that he has improved his outside shooting. He went 1-2 from three today. That's a lot better than his dribble straight at Kaminsky, pivot a few times, and pass strategy.
I agree his dribble drives at Kaminsky weren't working. And yes, I believe in player development.
You think a guy in his senior season though, who's been crap offensively his first three full seasons in college, is all of a sudden going to change spots this year and become a dependable scording threat? Yeah, it's happened before, but the odds are high against it happening. Let's be realistic and not dreamers about him.
I'll hold out hope for guys like Burton, Taylor, Duane Wilson, maybe FIscher, to step up and give scoring punch help to Carlino over Anderson any day.
Juan is fine. He is only taking wide open 3's and is trying to attack. I started to say that Juan is not the problem but that implies that there IS a problem. This is a young, small, inexperienced, not deep team. There is no getting around that. They have competed hard in every game. As of right now, as long as they are doing that and working to get better, none of us have any reason to complain.
Quote from: Wojo'sMojo on December 06, 2014, 01:56:27 PM
I agree. Plenty of blame to go around. These two players are not our senior pg though. He showed absolutely nothing today and might as well not even suited up.
Ners' logged in with his alternate account today huh?
You play that game 100 times, the result would be similar about 70 of them.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 06, 2014, 04:36:04 PM
Ners' logged in with his alternate account today huh?
Come on Scoop Stalker. Clearly being on here for 18 hours a day, you can tell that this is untrue. You might have to step your game up to 20 hours a day.
Quote from: Wojo'sMojo on December 06, 2014, 04:52:42 PM
Come on Scoop Stalker. Clearly being on here for 18 hours a day, you can tell that this is untrue. You might have to step your game up to 20 hours a day.
I hadn't posted for over 24 hours. Perhaps switching between accounts caused you to enter a time warp of some sort.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 06, 2014, 04:54:45 PM
I hadn't posted for over 24 hours. Perhaps switching between accounts caused you to enter a time warp of some sort.
24 whole hours? Wow, you must have been sweating, shaking, and feeling nauseous? I am impressed that you were able to get away for that long ;D
Quote from: Texas Western on December 06, 2014, 03:46:11 PM
We are going nowhere if he keeps playing max minutes. Would rather see 10-15 of intense play as a back up.
Agreed, people keep talking about his defense defense defense...... Please his offense and non requirement of a defender stops us from scoring more than any opponent.
Quote from: Texas Western on December 06, 2014, 03:42:26 PM
A game like today is a little bit like playing the US Open in golf. It is a test that will expose your weaknesses . We fought hard yes , but we made a lot of bogeys and had very few birdies .
We have 4 games to get use to having Luke in the lineup. I am hoping that he is able to open things up for the likes of JJJ and Deonte.
Derrick should have been taken out of the game the last five minutes . It would have been worth seeing if someone else could get hot from 3 point range.
Ahh....like running with Cohen? Hit the corner 3. Pulled down big board on D end, got fouled - actually went to the line and MADE BOTH FTs??!
Game was officially over when Wojo went back to starting lineup with 6 minutes left. Had a nice surge/momentum going, and then the Stagnator himself was sent back out there to lead us to victory. ::)
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/269/marquette-golden-eagles
Through 7 games, Derrick is 5th on the team in MPG and third in overall shooting %.
....but.....but.....
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 06, 2014, 05:07:48 PM
Ahh....like running with Cohen? Hit the corner 3. Pulled down big board on D end, got fouled - actually went to the line and MADE BOTH FTs??!
Game was officially over when Wojo went back to starting lineup with 6 minutes left. Had a nice surge/momentum going, and then the Stagnator himself was sent back out there to lead us to victory. ::)
Ners did you watch the actual game?
Marquette cut the lead to four and then shortly before the 10 minute mark saw JJJ, Burton and Cohen hit the floor for at least a 3 minute stretch of game that began a 6+ minute drought without a FG being made.
Only you could rationalize how a player on the bench is the root cause of the scoring drought occuring on the court.
Edit: Sorry, Burton hit a 3 pointer with 10:22 remaining to cut it to four. Our next FG came at the 2:36 mark when Carlino hit that deep three. I'm not sure of the 'surge' you're talking about at the six minute mark as the team went 0-7 from the field during that scoreless period and saw the deficit inflate from four to eleven in that same span.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 06, 2014, 05:07:48 PM
Ahh....like running with Cohen? Hit the corner 3. Pulled down big board on D end, got fouled - actually went to the line and MADE BOTH FTs??!
Game was officially over when Wojo went back to starting lineup with 6 minutes left. Had a nice surge/momentum going, and then the Stagnator himself was sent back out there to lead us to victory. ::)
Agreed. The surge was wasted the minute the starters returned .
Quote from: Texas Western on December 06, 2014, 05:22:32 PM
Agreed. The surge was wasted the minute the starters returned .
Except for the fact that Burton and JJ made the plays that led to the surge.
Quote from: mattyv1908 on December 06, 2014, 05:20:34 PM
Ners did you watch the actual game?
Marquette cut the lead to three and then shortly before the 10 minute mark saw JJJ, Burton and Cohen hit the floor for at least a 3 minute stretch of game that began a 6+ minute drought without a FG being made.
Only you could rationalize how a player on the bench is the root cause of the scoring drought occuring on the court.
I did watch the game - and I liked the swagger we got with Burton and Cohen on the floor. Would have continued to roll with them given how much Juan and Derrick were struggling today. From all I can see on ESPN game timeline...looks like we were down 10 at the 12 minute mark...Cohen and Deonte enter the game around that time...we get it down to a 2 point deficit at the 8:57 mark. At 7:58 see a Burton turnover, and WI hit a 3 so they are up 5. Never see Burton or Cohen show up in game timeline thereafter See Derrick with a miss at 5:08. Juan with misses at 7:39, 6:52 and 5:51 (assume he came back in for Deonte along with Derrick)
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 06, 2014, 05:31:43 PM
I did watch the game - and I liked the swagger we got with Burton and Cohen on the floor. Would have continued to roll with them given how much Juan and Derrick were struggling today. From all I can see on ESPN game timeline...looks like we were down 10 at the 12 minute mark...Cohen and Deonte enter the game around that time...we get it down to a 2 point deficit at the 8:57 mark. At 7:58 see a Burton turnover, and WI hit a 3 so they are up 5. Never see Burton or Cohen show up in game timeline thereafter See Derrick with a miss at 5:08. Juan with misses at 7:39, 6:52 and 5:51 (assume he came back in for Deonte along with Derrick)
Biggest play of the game. Must be Derrick's fault - somehow.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 06, 2014, 05:07:48 PM
Ahh....like running with Cohen? Hit the corner 3. Pulled down big board on D end, got fouled - actually went to the line and MADE BOTH FTs??!
Game was officially over when Wojo went back to starting lineup with 6 minutes left. Had a nice surge/momentum going, and then the Stagnator himself was sent back out there to lead us to victory. ::)
When the coach who knew less than you about who should play left I thought this kind of stuff would eventually end. With Buzz, you wanted more Mayo, Dawson, JJJ and Burton and less Derrick and Juan. A year later we've got no Mayo, virtually no Dawson, a little more JJJ (though after today's horrible offensive and defensive performance that may change) and considerably less Burton. And the same amount of Derrick and much,much more Juan. If Buzz was an idiot, Wojo's a bigger one. If Buzz was throwing games, Wojo is an even bigger fixer working against his own team. Or you could be wrong. Hmmm...tough call.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 06, 2014, 05:37:57 PM
When the coach who knew less than you about who should play left I thought this kind of stuff would eventually end. With Buzz, you wanted more Mayo, Dawson, JJJ and Burton and less Derrick and Juan. A year later we've got no Mayo, virtually no Dawson, a little more JJJ (though after today's horrible offensive and defensive performance that may change) and considerably less Burton. And the same amount of Derrick and much,much more Juan. If Buzz was an idiot, Wojo's a bigger one. If Buzz was throwing games, Wojo is an even bigger fixer working against his own team. Or you could be wrong. Hmmm...tough call.
Wojo is sticking it to the administration.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 06, 2014, 05:37:57 PM
When the coach who knew less than you about who should play left I thought this kind of stuff would eventually end. With Buzz, you wanted more Mayo, Dawson, JJJ and Burton and less Derrick and Juan. A year later we've got no Mayo, virtually no Dawson, a little more JJJ (though after today's horrible offensive and defensive performance that may change) and considerably less Burton. And the same amount of Derrick and much,much more Juan. If Buzz was an idiot, Wojo's a bigger one. If Buzz was throwing games, Wojo is an even bigger fixer working against his own team. Or you could be wrong. Hmmm...tough call.
Bingo. Hard to take a guy seriously when the two options are 1) He's smarter than 2 different people (and their staffs) getting paid millions to determine who's better on the floor for the team, or 2) Those 2 different people are just intentionally throwing games/losing (always a smart move for head coaches in college athletics, no?).
I'm fairly confident in saying neither 1 nor 2 are true. Apparently Ners thinks both are true.
I would like to commend Dawson for being a great teammate, despite being nailed to the bench all year. I watched him again today and he was the biggest cheerleader of any of the guys on the bench. It speaks very highly of him imo. I wish him much success in whatever school he decides to transfer to.
Quote from: wadesworld on December 06, 2014, 05:42:03 PM
Bingo. Hard to take a guy seriously when the two options are 1) He's smarter than 2 different people (and their staffs) getting paid millions to determine who's better on the floor for the team, or 2) Those 2 different people are just intentionally throwing games/losing (always a smart move for head coaches in college athletics, no?).
I'm fairly confident in saying neither 1 nor 2 are true. Apparently Ners thinks both are true.
You forgot option 3 - that Ners is also a better talent scout than our coaches and staffs are/were.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 06, 2014, 05:41:27 PM
Wojo is sticking it to the administration.
Actually, Wojo is in cahoots with Buzz. After Wojo arrived, he called Wojo and had him come to Blacksburg for a visit. He offered him and additional $1,000,000 if Wojo would continue to play Derrick in order to validate Buzz's decision. Wojo took the money and is deliberately coaching against the best interests of the team, of the administration, of the entire MU nation, for a little extra money. And Buzz is offering him an extra 1/2 mill to continue to keep talking up Derrick's leadership on and off the floor. It's all Buzz and his need to be proven right. ::)
Of course that is sarcasm. Again, it makes perfect sense if you look at the make up of the rosters.
Quote from: brandx on December 06, 2014, 05:50:55 PM
You forgot option 3 - that Ners is also a better talent scout than our coaches and staffs are/were.
No, he'd never recruit anyone because he would beat them all in a game of 1-1 followed by h-o-r-s-e.
I thought the biggest play of the game was when we went to man for ONE possession and somehow got switched on the screen and Kaminsky had a wide open 3 that put them up 7, game over. The one guy that can't get open in that situation somehow does.
Wisconsin will probably never win a NC under Bo. He's way too rigid in his system. Today, I would have told his players to put it up, whenever they were open. Good chance of getting the rebound anyway. Instead, took the air out of the ball, which played right into MU's game plan. Don't be surprised when other lower level Big10 teams do the exact same thing that MU did today.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 06, 2014, 05:31:43 PM
I did watch the game - and I liked the swagger we got with Burton and Cohen on the floor. Would have continued to roll with them given how much Juan and Derrick were struggling today. From all I can see on ESPN game timeline...looks like we were down 10 at the 12 minute mark...Cohen and Deonte enter the game around that time...we get it down to a 2 point deficit at the 8:57 mark. At 7:58 see a Burton turnover, and WI hit a 3 so they are up 5. Never see Burton or Cohen show up in game timeline thereafter See Derrick with a miss at 5:08. Juan with misses at 7:39, 6:52 and 5:51 (assume he came back in for Deonte along with Derrick)
I'm actually not sure I believe this. You talk about this big surge that didn't happen. You say that not having height wasn't a problem for us. You base your memories of the game on the ESPN timeline rather than actual knowledge of the game.
Maybe you should go back and watch it again, because it sure seems like you didn't really absorb it the first time.
And I'm not really sure what "swagger" Deonte brought to the game. Outside of hitting the three point shot, he was by and large a non-entity. He had an assist, a turnover and a personal foul.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 06, 2014, 06:08:28 PM
And I'm not really sure what "swagger" Deonte brought to the game. Outside of hitting the three point shot, he was by and large a non-entity. He had an assist, a turnover and a personal foul.
It's the hands-down at-his-side on defense that adds swagger to his game.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 06, 2014, 06:08:28 PM
And I'm not really sure what "swagger" Deonte brought to the game. Outside of hitting the three point shot, he was by and large a non-entity. He had an assist, a turnover and a personal foul.
Deonte hit the open three, but otherwise I agree, a non-factor. A buddy of mine came to the game and this was the first Marquette game he's seen all year. One of the first things he asked was what was wrong with Deonte.
Also, glad Cohen hit the corner 3, but the two of them combining for 2 shot attempts in 21 minutes is not enough. Very little assertiveness from either of them.
Quote from: brandx on December 06, 2014, 06:14:00 PM
It's the hands-down at-his-side on defense that adds swagger to his game.
In the words of the great Reggie Miller, "Hand down, man down!"
Quote from: wadesworld on December 06, 2014, 06:20:48 PM
In the words of the great Reggie Miller, "Hand down, man down!"
I think that is Mark Jackson's phrase.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 06, 2014, 06:21:44 PM
I think that is Mark Jackson's phrase.
Really? I kept hearing Reggie say it during last year's NBA Playoffs. But those 2 worked together on TNT up until Jackson got the Warriors coaching job so maybe Reggie just picked it up from Mark.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 06, 2014, 06:08:28 PM
And I'm not really sure what "swagger" Deonte brought to the game. Outside of hitting the three point shot, he was by and large a non-entity. He had an assist, a turnover and a personal foul.
Lol. If that makes Deote a non-entity, what does that make Derrick in 3 times as many minutes? Lol. There's some real clowns here.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 06, 2014, 05:37:57 PM
When the coach who knew less than you about who should play left I thought this kind of stuff would eventually end. With Buzz, you wanted more Mayo, Dawson, JJJ and Burton and less Derrick and Juan. A year later we've got no Mayo, virtually no Dawson, a little more JJJ (though after today's horrible offensive and defensive performance that may change) and considerably less Burton. And the same amount of Derrick and much,much more Juan. If Buzz was an idiot, Wojo's a bigger one. If Buzz was throwing games, Wojo is an even bigger fixer working against his own team. Or you could be wrong. Hmmm...tough call.
Lenny - Love you man. But if you want to call JJJ horrible today, what adjective do you assign to Derrick? And you've got about 20 other games just like today's you can comment on as well and he's an upperclassment.
As for Juan - he's played better this year, but reverted back to Buzz's coaching today trying to foolishly attack the paint. Additionally at this stage in the season and lack of size - how could Wojo NOT be playing him this much more? Wojo isn't getting nearly as good of production out of Deonte obviously. Was screaming at TV in first half to get Deonte the damn ball and let him go to work. Buzz at least did that. Have a feeling Deonte's still struggling with loss of Mom but also I'm sure they are coaching him hard to share the ball more, not be a black hole, and that is affecting his aggressiveness. Needs to find the proper balance.
Quote from: g0lden3agle on December 06, 2014, 01:34:05 PM
Give it up dude. At least try to bring some sort of analysis to the table other than looking at the box score.
+1000
Awesome free throw and 3 pt percentages too....
Seeing most of his shots are drives to the hoop, a pretty crappy shooting percentage.
Quote from: tower912 on December 06, 2014, 05:08:33 PM
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/269/marquette-golden-eagles
Through 7 games, Derrick is 5th on the team in MPG and third in overall shooting %.
....but.....but.....
I really like Cohen and Deonte has a TON of potential. But anybody suggesting these two add "swagger" is so off base it's practically laughable. Swagger? Cohen is likely still going through a case of the surreals being in big time games and Deonte has basically struggled all season, which given the upheaval in his life is understandable. Again, love both guys. Both are players we can win with. But swagger? What?
Ass Blistering Time:
1. 38 points will not win a big time college game, ever.
2. Don't care what anybody says. Calrino is a ball hog. 38 points, 18 points, or 3 points. He plays out of control. We had a chance with 2 minutes left, and then he tries to drive from 20 feet out and TO's. That was the ball game. He is not a team player.
3. What the hell is the elite gamechanger playing 35 minutes a game for? 0-5 in 35 minutes. One point. And please, stop with the defense excuses. We are now a zone team, and he is out of position frequently in the zone. He adds no value when we are scoring 40 points a game. I guess he is in there for his FT ability.!!!
Man--what a mess. We can go nowhere but up after this fiasco. Whatever anybody says, 35 minutes out of a non scoring PG who cannot shoot FT's when we play zone the whole game is mindless.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 06, 2014, 08:31:04 PM
Ass Blistering Time:
1. 38 points will not win a big time college game, ever.
2. Don't care what anybody says. Calrino is a ball hog. 38 points, 18 points, or 3 points. He plays out of control. We had a chance with 2 minutes left, and then he tries to drive from 20 feet out and TO's. That was the ball game. He is not a team player.
3. What the hell is the elite gamechanger playing 35 minutes a game for? 0-5 in 35 minutes. One point. And please, stop with the defense excuses. We are now a zone team, and he is out of position frequently in the zone. He adds no value when we are scoring 40 points a game. I guess he is in there for his FT ability.!!!
Man--what a mess. We can go nowhere but up after this fiasco. Whatever anybody says, 35 minutes out of a non scoring PG who cannot shoot FT's when we play zone the whole game is mindless.
This is some stunningly poor "analysis"
Quote from: willie warrior on December 06, 2014, 08:31:04 PM
Ass Blistering Time:
1. 38 points will not win a big time college game, ever.
2. Don't care what anybody says. Calrino is a ball hog. 38 points, 18 points, or 3 points. He plays out of control. We had a chance with 2 minutes left, and then he tries to drive from 20 feet out and TO's. That was the ball game. He is not a team player.
3. What the hell is the elite gamechanger playing 35 minutes a game for? 0-5 in 35 minutes. One point. And please, stop with the defense excuses. We are now a zone team, and he is out of position frequently in the zone. He adds no value when we are scoring 40 points a game. I guess he is in there for his FT ability.!!!
Man--what a mess. We can go nowhere but up after this fiasco. Whatever anybody says, 35 minutes out of a non scoring PG who cannot shoot FT's when we play zone the whole game is mindless.
This post is a "fiasco."
Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on December 06, 2014, 08:48:58 PM
This post is a "fiasco."
No--your critique lacks substance, there for it is a fiasco.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 06, 2014, 08:31:04 PM
Ass Blistering Time:
1. 38 points will not win a big time college game, ever.
2. Don't care what anybody says. Calrino is a ball hog. 38 points, 18 points, or 3 points. He plays out of control. We had a chance with 2 minutes left, and then he tries to drive from 20 feet out and TO's. That was the ball game. He is not a team player.
3. What the hell is the elite gamechanger playing 35 minutes a game for? 0-5 in 35 minutes. One point. And please, stop with the defense excuses. We are now a zone team, and he is out of position frequently in the zone. He adds no value when we are scoring 40 points a game. I guess he is in there for his FT ability.!!!
Man--what a mess. We can go nowhere but up after this fiasco. Whatever anybody says, 35 minutes out of a non scoring PG who cannot shoot FT's when we play zone the whole game is mindless.
But 37 will!
http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/boxscore?gameId=323350046
Was anyone surprised by the outcome? Dekker's ankle was a major issue and the Badgers still showed who is the premiere program in the state.
Quote from: jakeec on December 06, 2014, 09:44:10 PM
Was anyone surprised by the outcome? Dekker's ankle was a major issue and the Badgers still showed who is the premiere program in the state.
Are you really proud of beating a team that's clearly in a down year and doesn't have it's only tall player yet? You sound like the one 6ft 8th grader who's finished puberty and feels like he belongs in the NBA because he puts up good numbers over the 5'5" 8th graders. One of these programs is in the top 10 for NCAA appearances and post season appearances one of them isn't so enjoy your victory today.
Quote from: jakeec on December 06, 2014, 09:44:10 PM
Was anyone surprised by the outcome? Dekker's ankle was a major issue and the Badgers still showed who is the premiere program in the state.
Dekker just isn't that good man.
Quote from: jakeec on December 06, 2014, 09:44:10 PM
Was anyone surprised by the outcome? Dekker's ankle was a major issue and the Badgers still showed who is the premiere program in the state.
Nobody was surprised at the outcome from what I see. Badgers clearly are better and deeper this season. Marquette hasn't played the badgers at full strength 3 of the last 4 times either. Starting pg out one year( I forget the excuse for losing that one at the kohl..oh yeah wasn't the lame ass band in Indy?) mayo out last year, and Fischer (the only one over 6'7) still not eligible. I actually was surprised to see the badgers chuck 30 threes though. Thought Kaminsky and Hayes would have bigger games.
Quote from: jakeec on December 06, 2014, 09:44:10 PM
Was anyone surprised by the outcome? Dekker's ankle was a major issue and the Badgers still showed who is the premiere program in the state.
Nobody was surprised by the outcome...but whining about injuries is for losers.
Get back to us next season about the premiere program in the state.
Quote from: jakeec on December 06, 2014, 09:44:10 PM
Was anyone surprised by the outcome? Dekker's ankle was a major issue and the Badgers still showed who is the premiere program in the state.
Two years ago we beat you for 2d straight year, made elite 8, won big east, and you lost to Marshall Henderson in first round NCAA.
Shove it with your premier program BS.
Quote from: ChitownJuan on December 06, 2014, 09:50:48 PM
Dekker just isn't that good man.
Agree. If you can run around out there and defend, you can play on O end just fine. Overrated.
Congrats though to the Badgers on their win. All MU fans knew it was going to be a long shot to win. What most of us didn't expect was how ugly Wisconsin would look in the process. I think WI is very legit Final Four contender - but MU exposed some of their warts today. They did not handle our zone well...at all.
Quote from: tower912 on December 06, 2014, 05:08:33 PM
http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/team/stats/_/id/269/marquette-golden-eagles
Through 7 games, Derrick is 5th on the team in MPG and third in overall shooting %.
....but.....but.....
That stat doesn't fit the haters' agenda....
They watch the box score and cherry pick stats to create the delusion that they understand the game better than Buzz and Wojo.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 06, 2014, 06:51:59 PM
Lol. If that makes Deote a non-entity, what does that make Derrick in 3 times as many minutes? Lol. There's some real clowns here.
Grow up. I was talking about Deonte. I mean, you bring up crap like "swagger" as if that means something. It doesn't. Derrick at least knows where he is supposed to be on defense, and that is why he plays. And again, that is now *two* coaches that disagree with your assessment of who the best options are at guard.
So who's the clown?
Quote from: GooooMarquette on December 06, 2014, 10:04:59 PM
That stat doesn't fit the haters' agenda....
They watch the box score and cherry pick stats to create the delusion that they understand the game better than Buzz and Wojo.
Lol. Cherry pick stats - as in omitting today's clunker?! You did note it said through 7 games right? What stay would you like to pick from today's game to highlight his 35 minutes of play production?
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 06, 2014, 10:11:10 PM
Grow up. I was talking about Deonte. I mean, you bring up crap like "swagger" as if that means something. It doesn't. Derrick at least knows where he is supposed to be on defense, and that is why he plays. And again, that is now *two* coaches that disagree with your assessment of who the best options are at guard.
So who's the clown?
I know you were talking about Deonte and his production today equaling non-entity. I'd just like to hear your descriptor for Derrick in his 350 percent more playing time than Deonte today? Non factor? Invisible? Terrific? Elite? Game changer? Take your pic. I mean the experts Buzz and Wojo see him as being terrific, elite, game changing...I've never seen a guy produce so little to earn being called elite, game changing, terrific. It's coach speak. And total BS. At least Wojo was conference POY on defense. Derrick hasn't even sniffed all Big East D honors.
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 06, 2014, 10:11:58 PM
Lol. Cherry pick stats - as in omitting today's clunker?! You did note it said through 7 games right? What stay would you like to pick from today's game to highlight his 35 minutes of play production?
He posted the stats that are (still now) listed on ESPN.
I'm not going to pick any stats, but would rather hear some thoughts about team leadership and defense. I suppose that's too much to expect from a box score fan.....
Quote from: NersEllenson on December 06, 2014, 10:16:57 PM
I know you were talking about Deonte and his production today equaling non-entity. I'd just like to hear your descriptor for Derrick in his 350 percent more playing time than Deonte today? Non factor? Invisible? Terrific? Elite? Game changer? Take your pic. I mean the experts Buzz and Wojo see him as being terrific, elite, game changing...I've never seen a guy produce so little to earn being called elite, game changing, terrific. It's coach speak. And total BS. At least Wojo was conference POY on defense. Derrick hasn't even sniffed all Big East D honors.
Derrick wasn't good. Too bad, for the second year in a row, there aren't better options available.
Quote from: tower912 on December 06, 2014, 01:27:12 PM
1. MU fought it's ass off, but.....
2. Wiscy is good.
3. The zone is solid, but...
4. Bo knows how to beat a zone.
5. MU attacked, but...
6. Wiscy contested everything in close.
7. Not going to criticize anyone because everyone fought.
8. Sometimes, size, skill, and experience matter.
9. Luke is eligible the next time MU plays. Let's hope everybody gets through finals.
10. NJIT beat Michigan.
What I liked about the game was the MU clearly had a game plan and stuck to the plan. The plan was to drive to the basket because we always had at least 4 guys on the court who could blow by Wisconsin's slower defenders. Then, at the rim we needed a combination of luck/finesse/skill/calls from refs that just didn't happen today. Wojo thought the home environment would get his boys 3-4 more foul calls per half on those drives which would change the game. Huge credit to Wiscy for not getting foul calls while contesting everything.
This team not only fought well, it executed the game plan well throughout the 40 minutes.
The zone worked great, and Wojo even changed assignments in the zone from last game to this game. He had the off side "up" man fronting the big at the free throw line, and had the guys talking very well about covering that spot. He knew exactly how the Badger offense would work against his zone and had the boys playing well against it.
We lost to a better team. Next year will be different.
Also, like another poster above - I can't see Wiscy going very deep in the tournament. When they are against 6'6 and 6'7 athletic guys (rather than 6'1-6'5) they will get out paced and will lose the battle at the rim.
Quote from: jakeec on December 06, 2014, 09:44:10 PM
Was anyone surprised by the outcome? Dekker's ankle was a major issue and the Badgers still showed who is the premiere program in the state.
I actually was a little. Kaminsky struck me as weak. Not at all assertive. He could have scored at will but constantly passed up open shots. Three point shooting down for Wisconsin too. Not having Brust really hurts. Neither Dekker nor Hayes are very good shooters.
The Badgers may be the better team, but they are overrated. Stars that seem afraid to shine, poor against a zone, and no one that really moves well without the ball. Good enough to win some games, but not even the best in the Big 10. Having seen OSU up close, I can say football isn't the only sport where they're better than Bucky.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 06, 2014, 11:41:14 PM
I actually was a little. Kaminsky struck me as weak. Not at all assertive. He could have scored at will but constantly passed up open shots. Three point shooting down for Wisconsin too. Not having Brust really hurts. Neither Dekker nor Hayes are very good shooters.
The Badgers may be the better team, but they are overrated. Stars that seem afraid to shine, poor against a zone, and no one that really moves well without the ball. Good enough to win some games, but not even the best in the Big 10. Having seen OSU up close, I can say football isn't the only sport where they're better than Bucky.
Maybe.... or they may be like the Packers in their first three games. All the "sky is falling" people (I'm not not referring to you) listed all sorts of reasons why GB was toast.
It's a long season and as we saw last year when they had a stretch where they lost 5 out of 6, picking one stretch and saying the whole season will be that way doesn't mean anything. Just part of the ups and downs that almost all teams go through.
It was only 2 weeks ago that many on this board posted that MU wouldn't win five games all year.
So far I've watched UW-Madison against Georgetown, Duke, and Marquette. Small sample size, but in none of those were they particularly impressive. Defense as always is sound, but you can definitely push them around. Josh Smith and Jahlil Okafor both made Kaminsky look ineffectual in post defense. Dekker isn't bad but is hardly a star. And the rest look like role players. They can step up from time to time but there's no one like Brust who is a constant threat. If we had a big that could have provided a paint presence today, I really believe we would have won. They aren't bad, but they're more 15-20 than they are top-10.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 07, 2014, 12:32:45 AM
So far I've watched UW-Madison against Georgetown, Duke, and Marquette. Small sample size, but in none of those were they particularly impressive. Defense as always is sound, but you can definitely push them around. Josh Smith and Jahlil Okafor both made Kaminsky look ineffectual in post defense. Dekker isn't bad but is hardly a star. And the rest look like role players. They can step up from time to time but there's no one like Brust who is a constant threat. If we had a big that could have provided a paint presence today, I really believe we would have won. They aren't bad, but they're more 15-20 than they are top-10.
Fair enough. I disagree a little, but not too much.
First off.. Frank kaminsky is not going to make it in the league. He looked pretty average against our 6'7" center. The league will destroy him.
Second.. Wisconsin remains one of the most boring teams to watch in college hoops. What that says about us I don't know but man do they know how to turn a 40 min game into a 5 minute shooting contest. I don't see them making a deep run in the tourney. Lack of talent will
Prevail.
Third.. Luke couldn't become eligible at a better time. We are way too small to compete at this level. Luke will be a big help - if nothing else rebounding and defense should improve.
Quote from: Wojo'sMojo on December 06, 2014, 05:49:09 PM
I would like to commend Dawson for being a great teammate, despite being nailed to the bench all year. I watched him again today and he was the biggest cheerleader of any of the guys on the bench. It speaks very highly of him imo. I wish him much success in whatever school he decides to transfer to.
+1000
Quote from: nyg on December 06, 2014, 03:19:57 PM
Maybe trying to get the bigs in foul trouble, but didn't work out that way and still stayed with that strategy. Guess Wojo had a plan and sometimes it just doesn't pan out.
That was my interpretation as well, and seemed like they stuck with it too long after it wasn't working (and causing wasted possessions). Besides it not working, after a while it became predictable too. So Duane stopped looking for the 3 and started dribbling and taking wild layups and looked more like Derrick on offense than himself. Derrick was really frustrating on offense, everytime we would get ball movement and he catches it you think "Great! Wide open shot!" and then realize who it is and the ball stops for 3 seconds while he dribbles in place and the entire defense catches up. I was wishing they could put in Deonte for him, have greater team size and a legit offensive weapon, but then he would turn it over or screw up on defense. This team can be fun to watch but it can also be incredibly frustrating.
Overall, it's hard to be too disappointed but I feel like this is a missed opportunity. We allowed Wisconsin to take a lot of 3's (keeping them out of the paint), and we lucked out that they missed a lot. With a little more offensive creativity we might've been able to make a better game of it and stolen a resume-building win.
Quote from: ATEllen MU Warriorson on December 06, 2014, 08:34:01 PM
This is some stunningly poor "analysis"
Sorry but your "analysis" of my analysis is stunningly poor here, and proves you know very little about analyzing performance.
1. I challenge you to show me where 38 points by a team is acceptable in Big Time basketball. You can't, because 99.9% of the time it loses
2. Carlino is a chucker who tries to do too much. He played out of control and at a crucial time of the game turned it over. We were down 3 at the time.
3. Derrick Wilson adds little value to the game when he scores 1 point, goes 0-5 and we play zone just about all the time there. He was frequently out of position on rotations. No value added at all in this game.
That Sir, is "analysis". Your comment was vacuous. Crickets!!!!!
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 06, 2014, 10:26:54 PM
Derrick wasn't good. Too bad, for the second year in a row, there aren't better options available.
BS Sultan--there are other options. Du. Wilson and Carlino can both play the point better than Derrick. And please don't preach about his D, since we are playing zone now, and Derrick's out of position frequently.
17-15 last year with him at the point--4-4 this year with him at the point. Time to try something different.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 07, 2014, 07:55:44 AM
BS Sultan--there are other options. Du. Wilson and Carlino can both play the point better than Derrick.
Both of them did play point. Derrick was off the ball most of the day.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 07, 2014, 07:49:30 AM
Sorry but your "analysis" of my analysis is stunningly poor here, and proves you know very little about analyzing performance.
1. I challenge you to show me where 38 points by a team is acceptable in Big Time basketball. You can't, because 99.9% of the time it loses
2. Carlino is a chucker who tries to do too much. He played out of control and at a crucial time of the game turned it over. We were down 3 at the time.
3. Derrick Wilson adds little value to the game when he scores 1 point, goes 0-5 and we play zone just about all the time there. He was frequently out of position on rotations. No value added at all in this game.
1. You are correct. What can be done? Especially when you have such a height disadvantage.
2. You are correct. Like with many chuckers, you take the good with the bad. I mean, where would they have been without him yesterday? Probably losing by 20+.
3. You are correct. I wish they had better alternatives. But they don't.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 07, 2014, 08:00:25 AM
1. You are correct. What can be done? Especially when you have such a height disadvantage.
2. You are correct. Like with many chuckers, you take the good with the bad. I mean, where would they have been without him yesterday? Probably losing by 20+.
3. You are correct. I wish they had better alternatives. But they don't.
You are correct that I am correct, Sultan. Finally, you have it right. And as far as PG, we have better alternatives. You just won't admit that because it destroys your three year BS narrative. 17-15 and 4-4 with the Mr. Current proves that trying the same thing over and over and getting the same results warrants a new strategy. And offering up that they had a height advantage as your excuse is lame. Why is that? Because Buzz screwed the pooch there also. 38 points is not acceptable, height advantage or not.
And since you are such the expert--your solution is: Keep trying with a non productive PG who is a great defender except that we are now a zone team. Hopefully at 35 minutes a game he will develop by the end of the season. Hell--he might even become a 50 % FT shooter. That will prove your point, I guess.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 07, 2014, 07:49:30 AM
Sorry but your "analysis" of my analysis is stunningly poor here, and proves you know very little about analyzing performance.
1. I challenge you to show me where 38 points by a team is acceptable in Big Time basketball. You can't, because 99.9% of the time it loses
2. Carlino is a chucker who tries to do too much. He played out of control and at a crucial time of the game turned it over. We were down 3 at the time.
3. Derrick Wilson adds little value to the game when he scores 1 point, goes 0-5 and we play zone just about all the time there. He was frequently out of position on rotations. No value added at all in this game.
That Sir, is "analysis". Your comment was vacuous. Crickets!!!!!
1. 38 points is pretty low. I would guess that in "Big Time" basketball (whatever that is), a team scoring that many points would lose the vast majority of the time. This is obvious, but thanks for pointing it out and thinking you have some actual insight. Of course, you might also give the other team some credit for playing good D, executing a well-thought-out game plan, being way bigger and more experienced than MU, etc. But no, it wouldn't be a Willie post without challenging the acceptability of something without having a single constructive thing to say.
2. Carlino was the only MU player that had any offensive success in this game. He shot over 50% on only 11 shots. That's a guy who should shoot more...hardly a chucker. Yes, he had an ill-timed turnover, but at least he was trying to make a play.
3. You apparently have no understanding of zone defense, because Derrick is very good within the defense we are currently playing...certainly WAY better than the other guys on the team that people are clamoring for.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 07, 2014, 08:10:29 AM
You are correct that I am correct, Sultan. Finally, you have it right. And as far as PG, we have better alternatives. You just won't admit that because it destroys your three year BS narrative. 17-15 and 4-4 with the Mr. Current proves that trying the same thing over and over and getting the same results warrants a new strategy. And offering up that they had a height advantage as your excuse is lame. Why is that? Because Buzz screwed the pooch there also. 38 points is not acceptable, height advantage or not.
And since you are such the expert--your solution is: Keep trying with a non productive PG who is a great defender except that we are now a zone team. Hopefully at 35 minutes a game he will develop by the end of the season. Hell--he might even become a 50 % FT shooter. That will prove your point, I guess.
Another "not acceptable" post from Willie! Shocking.
Why don't you tell everyone what Wojo should be doing differently?
If he doesn't do these things, what should the consequences be?
Quote from: willie warrior on December 07, 2014, 08:10:29 AM
You are correct that I am correct, Sultan. Finally, you have it right. And as far as PG, we have better alternatives. You just won't admit that because it destroys your three year BS narrative. 17-15 and 4-4 with the Mr. Current proves that trying the same thing over and over and getting the same results warrants a new strategy. And offering up that they had a height advantage as your excuse is lame. Why is that? Because Buzz screwed the pooch there also. 38 points is not acceptable, height advantage or not.
And since you are such the expert--your solution is: Keep trying with a non productive PG who is a great defender except that we are now a zone team. Hopefully at 35 minutes a game he will develop by the end of the season. Hell--he might even become a 50 % FT shooter. That will prove your point, I guess.
I'm not even sure what to say here. What "three year narrative" are you talking about? Here is what I have said about Derrick since last year.
He isn't very good. There are not better alternatives.
This year he is playing off the ball a ton. Carlino and Duane are playing point a great deal. So you take Derrick's off-ball minutes away for who?
JJJ has been worse. Dawson has now been judged as worse by two coaches. So Cohen? Burton? Seriously what are the solutions here? People keep bitching and moaning and bitching and moaning, but provide no solutions.
No thanks.
4 min all season and 7 straight DNP's on a 8 man deep team says alot.
Dawson played last year, played in games that JJJ didn't and on a team with (Todd, Jamil, Devante, Otule and Jake Thomas) playing major minutes, he still saw the floor. Did he play 25 MPG no, but he played and if Buzz was here he would have found the floor by now. Then people get all rilled up when its suggested he transfer, shoot if he does it will happen and happen soon. No need to delay the inevitable, if your not playing on a barely .500 team your not gonna play with a Top 5 recruiting class next year either. So if you want a free degree then stay, if you want to play even if its on a "Medium Major" or however yall wanna put it then leave is how I would look at it.
Before the game started I was seeing only one way we win this game. It had to be a combination of us hitting threes and UW not hitting threes. UW did not hit threes. The probelm was that Wojo's game plan was to take it to the hoop every chance we got. In theory you draw a lot of fouls doing this, but Kaminsky and UW in general were very well coached in playing defense straight up, which kept them from fouling and forcing us to throw up a lot of two foot shots that did not have much chance of going in. We might of won, if we would of concentrated on shooting three point shots instead of driving to the hoop all of the time. It reminded me of Buzz's game plan against North Carolina. He kept having the ball passed inside to Otule, which either resulted in a turnover or a missed shot. Buzz was worried about UNC fast breaking on missed threes and therefore did not allow the team to take any. Hitting threes were the only way we were going to beat UNC and the game plan took that away. The same way to a lesser extent yesterday.
There was no room to take a lot of threes. UW pushed their defense way out knowing that they had guys guarding the rim. The threes MU did hit were off broken plays or transition. Nothing from the set offense.
Quote from: Nevada233 on December 07, 2014, 09:43:25 AM
4 min all season and 7 straight DNP's on a 8 man deep team says alot.
Dawson played last year, played in games that JJJ didn't and on a team with (Todd, Jamil, Devante, Otule and Jake Thomas) playing major minutes, he still saw the floor. Did he play 25 MPG no, but he played and if Buzz was here he would have found the floor by now. Then people get all rilled up when its suggested he transfer, shoot if he does it will happen and happen soon. No need to delay the inevitable, if your not playing on a barely .500 team your not gonna play with a Top 5 recruiting class next year either. So if you want a free degree then stay, if you want to play even if its on a "Medium Major" or however yall wanna put it then leave is how I would look at it.
Idk about that. Carlino and DeWil will have graduated. I know next year's class has a lot of hype, but there is still a huge gap between high school bball and high major bball. At the very least, he'd likely get decent minutes at backup.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 07, 2014, 10:07:03 AM
There was no room to take a lot of threes. UW pushed their defense way out knowing that they had guys guarding the rim. The threes MU did hit were off broken plays or transition. Nothing from the set offense.
Derrick had more than enough room to pop several 3s. Glad he didn't!
But yes, otherwise you are right. Carlino had to take some mighty difficult 3s and, to his credit, he hit a few. Duane didn't have a good look from 3 range. JJJ did but bricked it.
To answer an earlier question you asked, I guess I almost always would like to see Cohen and Burton get at least 2-3 minutes each of Derrick's "extra" time, which would still mean Derrick was playing 25-30 mpg. With us playing zone, I'm less concerned about the potential defense Derrick would have played that they wouldn't have.
There
are other options. Wojo just chooses not to use them.
I'm not saying he's wrong, though. He knows his team better than we do. You asked what I personally would like to see, so I told you.
Quote from: MU82 on December 07, 2014, 10:25:21 AM
To answer an earlier question you asked, I guess I almost always would like to see Cohen and Burton get at least 2-3 minutes each of Derrick's "extra" time, which would still mean Derrick was playing 25-30 mpg. With us playing zone, I'm less concerned about the potential defense Derrick would have played that they wouldn't have.
There are other options. Wojo just chooses not to use them.
I'm not saying he's wrong, though. He knows his team better than we do. You asked what I personally would like to see, so I told you.
And I really don't disagree with this. But 25-30 minutes is still a lot of game time. There are options that result in him playing less, but not significantly so.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 07, 2014, 07:49:30 AM
Sorry but your "analysis" of my analysis is stunningly poor here, and proves you know very little about analyzing performance.
1. I challenge you to show me where 38 points by a team is acceptable in Big Time basketball. You can't, because 99.9% of the time it loses
2. Carlino is a chucker who tries to do too much. He played out of control and at a crucial time of the game turned it over. We were down 3 at the time.
3. Derrick Wilson adds little value to the game when he scores 1 point, goes 0-5 and we play zone just about all the time there. He was frequently out of position on rotations. No value added at all in this game.
That Sir, is "analysis". Your comment was vacuous. Crickets!!!!!
1. 38 points is really low. But its not about how much you score, it is about the margin of defeat. We played a really slow placed game, with very little foul calls, and both teams played elite level defense. That's a recipe for a low scoring game. We lost by 11 to the number 2 team in the nation. I am ok with that.
2. Yep. He can shoot you into games and can shoot you out of games too.
3. I disagree about the defensive rotations. The few times I saw him "out of position" was when Cohen or Deonte or JJJ biffed on their assignment and he moved into the post to deny an easy look. There are other options at PG now. That is true. Unfrotunately, there are two other guard positions that need to be filled. So our two best options for the 1 are forced to play the 2 and 3. If JjJ and Deonte stepped up, we wouldn't have to play Derrick so often. I agree that playing Derrick for 35 minutes is not a recipe for success, but Derrick can at least play one end of the floor well. Deonte and JjJ aren't playing either end well right now.
Last season I thought Deonte and Gardner got in each other's way. I realize now I was wrong. Deonte needs a big man down low to clear out space for him. He has been running into the trees all season which has resulted in a turnover almost every time. I think getting Luke down there will help Deonte find his stride offensively. Defensively, I think the zone can hide a lot of his deficiencies but it still needs to get better.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on December 07, 2014, 10:43:48 AM
1. 38 points is really low. But its not about how much you score, it is about the margin of defeat. We played a really slow placed game, with very little foul calls, and both teams played elite level defense. That's a recipe for a low scoring game. We lost by 11 to the number 2 team in the nation. I am ok with that.
2. Yep. He can shoot you into games and can shoot you out of games too.
3. I disagree about the defensive rotations. The few times I saw him "out of position" was when Cohen or Deonte or JJJ biffed on their assignment and he moved into the post to deny an easy look. There are other options at PG now. That is true. Unfrotunately, there are two other guard positions that need to be filled. So our two best options for the 1 are forced to play the 2 and 3. If JjJ and Deonte stepped up, we wouldn't have to play Derrick so often. I agree that playing Derrick for 35 minutes is not a recipe for success, but Derrick can at least play one end of the floor well. Deonte and JjJ aren't playing either end well right now.
Re: #2, we would have gotten blown out by 30 yesterday if he hadn't played, so IMO this was a game he kept us in. He shot well yesterday, most of the time with a high degree of difficulty. We should have done more to try to get him some looks.
Quote from: ATEllen MU Warriorson on December 07, 2014, 10:53:15 AM
Re: #2, we would have gotten blown out by 30 yesterday if he hadn't played, so IMO this was a game he kept us in. He shot well yesterday, most of the time with a high degree of difficulty. We should have done more to try to get him some looks.
Carlino both shot us into and out of that game...however that works
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 07, 2014, 08:18:17 AM
I'm not even sure what to say here. What "three year narrative" are you talking about? Here is what I have said about Derrick since last year.
He isn't very good. There are not better alternatives.
This year he is playing off the ball a ton. Carlino and Duane are playing point a great deal. So you take Derrick's off-ball minutes away for who?
JJJ has been worse. Dawson has now been judged as worse by two coaches. So Cohen? Burton? Seriously what are the solutions here? People keep bitching and moaning and bitching and moaning, but provide no solutions.
No thanks.
I have provided solutions. You have provided nothing but wishes, speculation and slurp a Derrick, which is always your MO.
Quote from: willie warrior on December 07, 2014, 10:57:47 AM
I have provided solutions. You have provided nothing but wishes, speculation and slurp a Derrick, which is always your MO.
Which solutions have you provided to Derrick's off ball minutes? In this offense there isn't one point guard. Derrick, Carlino, Duane can all be on the floor at the same time and can all bring up the ball in different possessions.
You name call. You reference last year. That's nothing. Tell me specifically what you would do with Derrick's minutes. Who would you give them to?
Awesome, Lenny - let's get the stats accurate - it was only 4 horrible looking drives to the basket and a 3 pt attempt that has about zero chance of going in (Yes, I know he is 2 - 9 from 3 this year)...
so 5 empty possessions in an offensively challenged game...
there - facts are straight now... proceed...
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 06, 2014, 03:03:30 PM
Here's an analysis of your analysis:!inaccurate. Derrick's 0-5 wasn't all on drives, it included a missed 3. If you're going to rip one of our guys the least you might want to do is watch the game and get your facts right.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on December 07, 2014, 11:24:42 AM
Awesome, Lenny - let's get the stats accurate - it was only 4 horrible looking drives to the basket and a 3 pt attempt that has about zero chance of going in (Yes, I know he is 2 - 9 from 3 this year)...
so 5 empty possessions in an offensively challenged game...
there - facts are straight now... proceed...
Well you are assuming that we didn't grab an offensive rebound and eventually score on any of those.
But why don't you mention Duane's 1-8 shooting? Or Juan's 1-7? Both of them resulted in more "empty possessions" than Derrick.
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 07, 2014, 11:30:47 AM
But why don't you mention Duane's 1-8 shooting? Or Juan's 1-7? Both of them resulted in more "empty possessions" than Derrick.
+100. This is what always drives me crazy. People knee jerk react and automatically blame one player for everything. There is always plenty of blame to go around. A loss can almost never be blamed on one player.
other than Duane and Juan have shown the ability to actually score and need to be defended...
plenty of blame for the Wisconsin game to go around - it's just that we should not allow our "Caretaker PG" to be an option in the offense....
Quote from: The Sultan of Sunshine on December 07, 2014, 11:30:47 AM
Well you are assuming that we didn't grab an offensive rebound and eventually score on any of those.
But why don't you mention Duane's 1-8 shooting? Or Juan's 1-7? Both of them resulted in more "empty possessions" than Derrick.
Quote from: madtownwarrior on December 07, 2014, 01:52:26 PM
other than Duane and Juan have shown the ability to actually score and need to be defended...
plenty of blame for the Wisconsin game to go around - it's just that we should not allow our "Caretaker PG" to be an option in the offense....
Why does there need to be "blame"? We were highly competitive against the #2 team in the country with an undermanned squad.
Just got back from Milwaukee after going to the game. My thought during the game was, why doesn't UW pound the ball inside and let their bigs have their way? But each time the ball went in to Kaminsky, he'd dump it back out. Credit MU's collapsing zone? Or just poor execution by UW?
By the way...for the money, Brewhouse Inns and Suites is a great place for a bunch o' people to stay.
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on December 07, 2014, 02:40:05 PM
Just got back from Milwaukee after going to the game. My thought during the game was, why doesn't UW pound the ball inside and let their bigs have their way? But each time the ball went in to Kaminsky, he'd dump it back out. Credit MU's collapsing zone? Or just poor execution by UW?
By the way...for the money, Brewhouse Inns and Suites is a great place for a bunch o' people to stay.
I talked to Sandy and John last night. They kept saying that Kaminsky is really soft.
Quote from: ChitownJuan on December 07, 2014, 03:53:20 PM
I talked to Sandy and John last night. They kept saying that Kaminsky is really soft.
Who's John?
Quote from: ChitownJuan on December 07, 2014, 04:18:36 PM
Dawson...?
Ummmm ... the only thing Dawson personally witnessed being soft Saturday was the seat under his rump.
He is in no position to be ripping an All-American.
Not that Sandy is, either, but at least he got to stretch his legs a few times.
From Statsheet and over the past 18 seasons:
The 32.7% Floor Percentage ("Floor percentage is the fraction of a team's or individual possessions on which there is a scoring possession." Dean Oliver) was the lowest game in the Statistcal Age.
The 53 possessions was the third lowest game.
The PPP was 7th lowest at 0.72 tied with the Syracuse Elite 8 stinker. The 1st half was the fourth lowest scoring MU half (either half). The offensive rebounding % was the 10th lowest game (15.6%). Even though MU won the turnover war, MU lost points off of turnovers 16-4. That's was the game.
MU is 347th for offensive rebounding rate and 241st defensively. With limited possessions and the inability to convert or extend your own possessions while allowing your opponent multiple chances, that is simply a narrow margin. Luke can only help here. Too many times, UW had two, three, four cracks at scoring during each trip down the court. Add in Carlino's five turnovers as he was the only option, the UW talent and experience won out despite a great Wojo defensive gameplan and team effort.
Carlino was the biggest scorer, but I felt he was the one that cost us a chance of winning. I deleted the game without rewatching it, but in my selective memory he was the one that blew the game when we got close. I remembering him taking a very poor quick three that was not even close and turning the ball over a couple of times. He also did that in the first half. Sure the other players missed close shots, but they were following the game plan.
Quote from: bilsu on December 08, 2014, 01:49:22 PM
Carlino was the biggest scorer, but I felt he was the one that cost us a chance of winning. I deleted the game without rewatching it, but in my selective memory he was the one that blew the game when we got close. I remembering him taking a very poor quick three that was not even close and turning the ball over a couple of times. He also did that in the first half. Sure the other players missed close shots, but they were following the game plan.
Carlino earns a very long leash when he's scoring almost half your teams points while shooting over 50% from the field. While he definitely wasn't perfect in the final minutes, those final minutes wouldn't have mattered had he not came to play for the rest of the game.
Hate to be a downer but even though we hung in there and played hard the game shouldn't have been close. Our defense was good, but UW missed a much higher than normal share of open shots. There defense was stifling - with very few exceptions we shot an assortment of out of control runners/drives and contested 3s. They got a lot of good shots, we didn't. Given normal shooting (considering the shots degrees of difficulty) we should have lost by 20+.
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on December 07, 2014, 02:40:05 PM
Just got back from Milwaukee after going to the game. My thought during the game was, why doesn't UW pound the ball inside and let their bigs have their way? But each time the ball went in to Kaminsky, he'd dump it back out. Credit MU's collapsing zone? Or just poor execution by UW?
By the way...for the money, Brewhouse Inns and Suites is a great place for a bunch o' people to stay.
They have done a great job with the Brewhouse.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 08, 2014, 03:30:16 PM
Hate to be a downer but even though we hung in there and played hard the game shouldn't have been close. Our defense was good, but UW missed a much higher than normal share of open shots. There defense was stifling - with very few exceptions we shot an assortment of out of control runners/drives and contested 3s. They got a lot of good shots, we didn't. Given normal shooting (considering the shots degrees of difficulty) we should have lost by 20+.
I mostly agree but to a point. MU, Juan and Du in particular, passed up a lot of open threes or should have pulled up for open twos. Bo wasn't going to let Carlino free and he wasn't going to let MU to the rim. Shots were there but MU passed on them.
On defense, Duke zoned Bucky too--a rare occurrence. Brust opened up a lot last year for that offense and Kaminsky was having trouble posting up in both games. Gasser saved them vs. MU. Bo needs to let him shoot more.
Marquette Nation @mubbnation ยท 5h 5 hours ago
#mubb currently ranks 347th out of 351 in rebounds per game at 27. Fischer adding 5-point-something to that would boost MU nearly 100 spots.