Wiscy thoughts

[royceda5 9]

First off.. Frank kaminsky is not going to make it in the league. He looked pretty average against our 6'7" center. The league will destroy him.

Second.. Wisconsin remains one of the most boring teams to watch in college hoops. What that says about us I don't know but man do they know how to turn a 40 min game into a 5 minute shooting contest. I don't see them making a deep run in the tourney. Lack of talent will
Prevail.

Third.. Luke couldn't become eligible at a better time. We are way too small to compete at this level. Luke will be a big help - if nothing else rebounding and defense should improve.

[Nevada233]

I would like to commend Dawson for being a great teammate, despite being nailed to the bench all year. I watched him again today and he was the biggest cheerleader of any of the guys on the bench. It speaks very highly of him imo. I wish him much success in whatever school he decides to transfer to.

+1000

[THRILLHO]

Maybe trying to get the bigs in foul trouble, but didn't work out that way and still stayed with that strategy.  Guess Wojo had a plan and sometimes it just doesn't pan out.

That was my interpretation as well, and seemed like they stuck with it too long after it wasn't working (and causing wasted possessions). Besides it not working, after a while it became predictable too. So Duane stopped looking for the 3 and started dribbling and taking wild layups and looked more like Derrick on offense than himself. Derrick was really frustrating on offense, everytime we would get ball movement and he catches it you think "Great! Wide open shot!" and then realize who it is and the ball stops for 3 seconds while he dribbles in place and the entire defense catches up. I was wishing they could put in Deonte for him, have greater team size and a legit offensive weapon, but then he would turn it over or screw up on defense. This team can be fun to watch but it can also be incredibly frustrating.

Overall, it's hard to be too disappointed but I feel like this is a missed opportunity. We allowed Wisconsin to take a lot of 3's (keeping them out of the paint), and we lucked out that they missed a lot. With a little more offensive creativity we might've been able to make a better game of it and stolen a resume-building win.

[willie warrior]

This is some stunningly poor "analysis"

Sorry but your "analysis" of my analysis is stunningly poor here, and proves you know very little about analyzing performance.
1. I challenge you to show me where 38 points by a team is acceptable in Big Time basketball. You can't, because 99.9% of the time it loses
2. Carlino is a chucker who tries to do too much. He played out of control and at a crucial time of the game turned it over. We were down 3 at the time.
3. Derrick Wilson adds little value to the game when he scores 1 point, goes 0-5 and we play zone just about all the time there. He was frequently out of position on rotations. No value added at all in this game.

That Sir, is "analysis". Your comment was vacuous. Crickets!!!!!

[willie warrior]

Derrick wasn't good.  Too bad, for the second year in a row, there aren't better options available.

BS Sultan--there are other options. Du. Wilson and Carlino can both play the point better than Derrick. And please don't preach about his D, since we are  playing zone now, and Derrick's out of position frequently.

17-15 last year with him at the point--4-4 this year with him at the point. Time to try something different.

[GGGG]

BS Sultan--there are other options. Du. Wilson and Carlino can both play the point better than Derrick.

Both of them did play point.  Derrick was off the ball most of the day.

[GGGG]

Sorry but your "analysis" of my analysis is stunningly poor here, and proves you know very little about analyzing performance.
1. I challenge you to show me where 38 points by a team is acceptable in Big Time basketball. You can't, because 99.9% of the time it loses
2. Carlino is a chucker who tries to do too much. He played out of control and at a crucial time of the game turned it over. We were down 3 at the time.
3. Derrick Wilson adds little value to the game when he scores 1 point, goes 0-5 and we play zone just about all the time there. He was frequently out of position on rotations. No value added at all in this game.

1. You are correct.  What can be done?  Especially when you have such a height disadvantage.

2. You are correct.  Like with many chuckers, you take the good with the bad.  I mean, where would they have been without him yesterday?  Probably losing by 20+.

3. You are correct.  I wish they had better alternatives.  But they don't.

[willie warrior]

1. You are correct.  What can be done?  Especially when you have such a height disadvantage.

2. You are correct.  Like with many chuckers, you take the good with the bad.  I mean, where would they have been without him yesterday?  Probably losing by 20+.

3. You are correct.  I wish they had better alternatives.  But they don't.

You are correct that I am correct, Sultan. Finally, you have it right. And as far as PG, we have better alternatives. You just won't admit that because it destroys your three year BS narrative. 17-15 and 4-4 with the Mr. Current proves that trying the same thing over and over and getting the same results warrants a new strategy. And offering up that they had a height advantage as your excuse is lame. Why is that? Because Buzz screwed the pooch there also. 38 points is not acceptable, height advantage or not.

And since you are such the expert--your solution is: Keep trying with a non productive PG who is a great defender except that we are now a zone team. Hopefully at 35 minutes a game he will develop by the end of the season. Hell--he might even become a 50 % FT shooter. That will prove your point, I guess.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Sorry but your "analysis" of my analysis is stunningly poor here, and proves you know very little about analyzing performance.
1. I challenge you to show me where 38 points by a team is acceptable in Big Time basketball. You can't, because 99.9% of the time it loses
2. Carlino is a chucker who tries to do too much. He played out of control and at a crucial time of the game turned it over. We were down 3 at the time.
3. Derrick Wilson adds little value to the game when he scores 1 point, goes 0-5 and we play zone just about all the time there. He was frequently out of position on rotations. No value added at all in this game.

That Sir, is "analysis". Your comment was vacuous. Crickets!!!!!

1.  38 points is pretty low.  I would guess that in "Big Time" basketball (whatever that is), a team scoring that many points would lose the vast majority of the time.  This is obvious, but thanks for pointing it out and thinking you have some actual insight.  Of course, you might also give the other team some credit for playing good D, executing a well-thought-out game plan, being way bigger and more experienced than MU, etc.  But no, it wouldn't be a Willie post without challenging the acceptability of something without having a single constructive thing to say.  

2.  Carlino was the only MU player that had any offensive success in this game.  He shot over 50% on only 11 shots.  That's a guy who should shoot more...hardly a chucker.  Yes, he had an ill-timed turnover, but at least he was trying to make a play.  

3.  You apparently have no understanding of zone defense, because Derrick is very good within the defense we are currently playing...certainly WAY better than the other guys on the team that people are clamoring for.

[ATL MU Warrior]

You are correct that I am correct, Sultan. Finally, you have it right. And as far as PG, we have better alternatives. You just won't admit that because it destroys your three year BS narrative. 17-15 and 4-4 with the Mr. Current proves that trying the same thing over and over and getting the same results warrants a new strategy. And offering up that they had a height advantage as your excuse is lame. Why is that? Because Buzz screwed the pooch there also. 38 points is not acceptable, height advantage or not.

And since you are such the expert--your solution is: Keep trying with a non productive PG who is a great defender except that we are now a zone team. Hopefully at 35 minutes a game he will develop by the end of the season. Hell--he might even become a 50 % FT shooter. That will prove your point, I guess.

Another "not acceptable" post from Willie!  Shocking.

Why don't you tell everyone what Wojo should be doing differently?

If he doesn't do these things, what should the consequences be? 

[GGGG]

You are correct that I am correct, Sultan. Finally, you have it right. And as far as PG, we have better alternatives. You just won't admit that because it destroys your three year BS narrative. 17-15 and 4-4 with the Mr. Current proves that trying the same thing over and over and getting the same results warrants a new strategy. And offering up that they had a height advantage as your excuse is lame. Why is that? Because Buzz screwed the pooch there also. 38 points is not acceptable, height advantage or not.

And since you are such the expert--your solution is: Keep trying with a non productive PG who is a great defender except that we are now a zone team. Hopefully at 35 minutes a game he will develop by the end of the season. Hell--he might even become a 50 % FT shooter. That will prove your point, I guess.

I'm not even sure what to say here.  What "three year narrative" are you talking about?  Here is what I have said about Derrick since last year.

He isn't very good.  There are not better alternatives.

This year he is playing off the ball a ton.  Carlino and Duane are playing point a great deal.  So you take Derrick's off-ball minutes away for who?

JJJ has been worse.  Dawson has now been judged as worse by two coaches.  So Cohen?  Burton?  Seriously what are the solutions here?   People keep bitching and moaning and bitching and moaning, but provide no solutions.  

No thanks.

[Nevada233]

4 min all season and 7 straight DNP's on a 8 man deep team says alot.

Dawson played last year, played in games that JJJ didn't and on a team with (Todd, Jamil, Devante, Otule and Jake Thomas) playing major minutes, he still saw the floor. Did he play 25 MPG no, but he played and if Buzz was here he would have found the floor by now. Then people get all rilled up when its suggested he transfer, shoot if he does it will happen and happen soon. No need to delay the inevitable, if your not playing on a barely .500 team your not gonna play with a Top 5 recruiting class next year either. So if you want a free degree then stay, if you want to play even if its on a "Medium Major" or however yall wanna put it then leave is how I would look at it.

[bilsu]

Before the game started I was seeing only one way we win this game. It had to be a combination of us hitting threes and UW not hitting threes. UW did not hit threes. The probelm was that Wojo's game plan was to take it to the hoop every chance we got. In theory you draw a lot of fouls doing this, but Kaminsky and UW in general were very well coached in playing defense straight up, which kept them from fouling and forcing us to throw up a lot of two foot shots that did not have much chance of going in. We might of won, if we would of concentrated on shooting three point shots instead of driving to the hoop all of the time. It reminded me of Buzz's game plan against North Carolina. He kept having the ball passed inside to Otule, which either resulted in a turnover or a missed shot. Buzz was worried about UNC fast breaking on missed threes and therefore did not allow the team to take any. Hitting threes were the only way we were going to beat UNC and the game plan took that away. The same way to a lesser extent yesterday.

[GGGG]

There was no room to take a lot of threes.  UW pushed their defense way out knowing that they had guys guarding the rim.  The threes MU did hit were off broken plays or transition.  Nothing from the set offense.

[Eldon]

4 min all season and 7 straight DNP's on a 8 man deep team says alot.

Dawson played last year, played in games that JJJ didn't and on a team with (Todd, Jamil, Devante, Otule and Jake Thomas) playing major minutes, he still saw the floor. Did he play 25 MPG no, but he played and if Buzz was here he would have found the floor by now. Then people get all rilled up when its suggested he transfer, shoot if he does it will happen and happen soon. No need to delay the inevitable, if your not playing on a barely .500 team your not gonna play with a Top 5 recruiting class next year either. So if you want a free degree then stay, if you want to play even if its on a "Medium Major" or however yall wanna put it then leave is how I would look at it.

Idk about that. Carlino and DeWil will have graduated. I know next year's class has a lot of hype, but there is still a huge gap between high school bball and high major bball. At the very least, he'd likely get decent minutes at backup.

[MU82]

There was no room to take a lot of threes.  UW pushed their defense way out knowing that they had guys guarding the rim.  The threes MU did hit were off broken plays or transition.  Nothing from the set offense.

Derrick had more than enough room to pop several 3s. Glad he didn't!

But yes, otherwise you are right. Carlino had to take some mighty difficult 3s and, to his credit, he hit a few. Duane didn't have a good look from 3 range. JJJ did but bricked it.

To answer an earlier question you asked, I guess I almost always would like to see Cohen and Burton get at least 2-3 minutes each of Derrick's "extra" time, which would still mean Derrick was playing 25-30 mpg. With us playing zone, I'm less concerned about the potential defense Derrick would have played that they wouldn't have.

There are other options. Wojo just chooses not to use them.

I'm not saying he's wrong, though. He knows his team better than we do. You asked what I personally would like to see, so I told you.

[GGGG]

To answer an earlier question you asked, I guess I almost always would like to see Cohen and Burton get at least 2-3 minutes each of Derrick's "extra" time, which would still mean Derrick was playing 25-30 mpg. With us playing zone, I'm less concerned about the potential defense Derrick would have played that they wouldn't have.

There are other options. Wojo just chooses not to use them.

I'm not saying he's wrong, though. He knows his team better than we do. You asked what I personally would like to see, so I told you.

And I really don't disagree with this.  But 25-30 minutes is still a lot of game time.  There are options that result in him playing less, but not significantly so.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Sorry but your "analysis" of my analysis is stunningly poor here, and proves you know very little about analyzing performance.
1. I challenge you to show me where 38 points by a team is acceptable in Big Time basketball. You can't, because 99.9% of the time it loses
2. Carlino is a chucker who tries to do too much. He played out of control and at a crucial time of the game turned it over. We were down 3 at the time.
3. Derrick Wilson adds little value to the game when he scores 1 point, goes 0-5 and we play zone just about all the time there. He was frequently out of position on rotations. No value added at all in this game.

That Sir, is "analysis". Your comment was vacuous. Crickets!!!!!

1. 38 points is really low. But its not about how much you score, it is about the margin of defeat. We played a really slow placed game, with very little foul calls, and both teams played elite level defense. That's a recipe for a low scoring game. We lost by 11 to the number 2 team in the nation. I am ok with that.
2. Yep. He can shoot you into games and can shoot you out of games too.
3. I disagree about the defensive rotations. The few times I saw him "out of position" was when Cohen or Deonte or JJJ biffed on their assignment and he moved into the post to deny an easy look. There are other options at PG now. That is true. Unfrotunately, there are two other guard positions that need to be filled. So our two best options for the 1 are forced to play the 2 and 3. If JjJ and Deonte stepped up, we wouldn't have to play Derrick so often. I agree that playing Derrick for 35 minutes is not a recipe for success, but Derrick can at least play one end of the floor well. Deonte and JjJ aren't playing either end well right now.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Last season I thought Deonte and Gardner got in each other's way. I realize now I was wrong. Deonte needs a big man down low to clear out space for him. He has been running into the trees all season which has resulted in a turnover almost every time. I think getting Luke down there will help Deonte find his stride offensively. Defensively, I think the zone can hide a lot of his deficiencies but it still needs to get better.

[ATL MU Warrior]

1. 38 points is really low. But its not about how much you score, it is about the margin of defeat. We played a really slow placed game, with very little foul calls, and both teams played elite level defense. That's a recipe for a low scoring game. We lost by 11 to the number 2 team in the nation. I am ok with that.
2. Yep. He can shoot you into games and can shoot you out of games too.
3. I disagree about the defensive rotations. The few times I saw him "out of position" was when Cohen or Deonte or JJJ biffed on their assignment and he moved into the post to deny an easy look. There are other options at PG now. That is true. Unfrotunately, there are two other guard positions that need to be filled. So our two best options for the 1 are forced to play the 2 and 3. If JjJ and Deonte stepped up, we wouldn't have to play Derrick so often. I agree that playing Derrick for 35 minutes is not a recipe for success, but Derrick can at least play one end of the floor well. Deonte and JjJ aren't playing either end well right now.

Re: #2, we would have gotten blown out by 30 yesterday if he hadn't played, so IMO this was a game he kept us in.  He shot well yesterday, most of the time with a high degree of difficulty.  We should have done more to try to get him some looks. 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Re: #2, we would have gotten blown out by 30 yesterday if he hadn't played, so IMO this was a game he kept us in.  He shot well yesterday, most of the time with a high degree of difficulty.  We should have done more to try to get him some looks. 

Carlino both shot us into and out of that game...however that works

[willie warrior]

I'm not even sure what to say here.  What "three year narrative" are you talking about?  Here is what I have said about Derrick since last year.

He isn't very good.  There are not better alternatives.

This year he is playing off the ball a ton.  Carlino and Duane are playing point a great deal.  So you take Derrick's off-ball minutes away for who?

JJJ has been worse.  Dawson has now been judged as worse by two coaches.  So Cohen?  Burton?  Seriously what are the solutions here?   People keep bitching and moaning and bitching and moaning, but provide no solutions.  

No thanks.

I have provided solutions. You have provided nothing but wishes, speculation and slurp a Derrick, which is always your MO.

[GGGG]

I have provided solutions. You have provided nothing but wishes, speculation and slurp a Derrick, which is always your MO.

Which solutions have you provided to Derrick's off ball minutes?  In this offense there isn't one point guard.  Derrick, Carlino, Duane can all be on the floor at the same time and can all bring up the ball in different possessions. 

You name call.  You reference last year.  That's nothing.  Tell me specifically what you would do with Derrick's minutes.  Who would you give them to?

[madtownwarrior]

Awesome, Lenny - let's get the stats accurate - it was only 4 horrible looking drives to the basket and a 3 pt attempt that has about zero chance of going in (Yes, I know he is 2 - 9 from 3 this year)...

so 5 empty possessions in an offensively challenged game...

there - facts are straight now... proceed...

Here's an analysis of your analysis:!inaccurate. Derrick's 0-5 wasn't all on drives, it included a missed 3. If you're going to rip one of our guys the least you might want to do is watch the game and get your facts right.

[GGGG]

Awesome, Lenny - let's get the stats accurate - it was only 4 horrible looking drives to the basket and a 3 pt attempt that has about zero chance of going in (Yes, I know he is 2 - 9 from 3 this year)...

so 5 empty possessions in an offensively challenged game...

there - facts are straight now... proceed...

Well you are assuming that we didn't grab an offensive rebound and eventually score on any of those.

But why don't you mention Duane's 1-8 shooting?  Or Juan's 1-7?  Both of them resulted in more "empty possessions" than Derrick.