I know everyone was saying Burton looked confused, but watching the replay numerous times, I'm not sure Gardner wasn't supposed to be the one going to the top.
I could understand Burton being nervous and unsure, but if it was Gardner that had the brain cramp, that would be inexcusable for a senior.
http://marquette.scout.com/2/1382155.html
Buzz explains it....if you can decipher Dodds writing. If I decipher it correctly, Davante was supposed to get the ball in the high post and then pass to whoever was open...Jake, Jamil, or Todd. So, when Davante and Deonte both went to the low block.... I had assumed that Davante was supposed to get it on the low block with Burton at the elbow. Bottom line is that when they both were in the same spot, it disrupted the play.
The one who called timeout and tried to draw up a play, despite a near zero success rate when he does so.
Also explained. At the end of the first overtime, with Todd in the game, Buzz let them play through it, with the intent of Todd making the play. With Todd fouled out and no one on the floor who could really get their own shot, he drew up a play. One for a man defense, one for a zone. I realize that you are down on buzz right now, Chapman, but tell me how you argue against that logic.
Well, we'll feel better knowin' the play wasn't drawn up for Derrick, aina?
Quote from: tower912 on March 08, 2014, 08:48:25 PM
With Todd fouled out and no one on the floor who could really get their own shot, he drew up a play. One for a man defense, one for a zone. I realize that you are down on buzz right now, Chapman, but tell me how you argue against that logic.
Because St. John's used a TO after the free throw. He couldn't draw something up then? Keeping that last timeout would have been helpful when everything broke down.
Who screwed up on the final play?
Buzz. As a coach you need to be under the assumption that the opposition plays to a scouting report as well. You have to assume that your play isn't going to work and have personnel in the game that can make an adjustment if the play breaks down. In that situation it would have made more sense to inbound the ball to Burton or Jamil, set 2 high staggered screens and let the dribble guy decide which screen to use to get to the rim. After the screen, all players crash the paint for a tip, rebound. You force St. John's to not foul (based on the officiating, not likely), or you get the ball on the rim and see what happens. There is no excuse (much like the Providence inbound), for Derrick to be in the game in that situation. He is consistently put into positions that he cannot succeed.
Quote from: BenCat12 on March 08, 2014, 09:10:51 PM
Who screwed up on the final play?
Buzz. As a coach you need to be under the assumption that the opposition plays to a scouting report as well. You have to assume that your play isn't going to work and have personnel in the game that can make an adjustment if the play breaks down. In that situation it would have made more sense to inbound the ball to Burton or Jamil, set 2 high staggered screens and let the dribble guy decide which screen to use to get to the rim. After the screen, all players crash the paint for a tip, rebound. You force St. John's to not foul (based on the officiating, not likely), or you get the ball on the rim and see what happens. There is no excuse (much like the Providence inbound), for Derrick to be in the game in that situation. He is consistently put into positions that he cannot succeed.
I am so tired of this board after losses. Seriously, there are already 6 threads about who should play, what is the point of adding another one to ask for a coach to insert a freshman that had two turnovers in a minute into the last 8 seconds of a double overtime game? And are you seriously saying that our coach should assume that the plays he draws up won't work, but that yours magically would? I guess that does encompass the thought process of many that post here.
I never should have given up alcohol for Lent.
Quote from: connie on March 08, 2014, 09:40:39 PM
I am so tired of this board after losses. Seriously, there are already 6 threads about who should play, what is the point of adding another one to ask for a coach to insert a freshman that had two turnovers in a minute into the last 8 seconds of a double overtime game? And are you seriously saying that our coach should assume that the plays he draws up won't work, but that yours magically would? I guess that does encompass the thought process of many that post here.
I never should have given up alcohol for Lent.
Here is an idea, if you get so worked up about reading a message board that you need to drink, you probably have more serious problems.
As for the actual basketball part of your post, yes you assume your play is not going to work and you option if the drawn up play doesn't work. If you can take your Buzz glasses off for two seconds you'll see that putting the ball in Derrick's hands and trying to get an entry pass into the low block to Davante are not feasible options in that situation. I am not saying my play would work, but it is more realistic. In that situation the ball almost always gets inbounded to the player that the coach wants to take the final shot. It was a poorly designed play in a long list of poor sets we've seen this year. It wasn't as bad as the Providence inbound but close.
Quote from: BenCat12 on March 08, 2014, 09:10:51 PM
Who screwed up on the final play?
Buzz. As a coach you need to be under the assumption that the opposition plays to a scouting report as well. You have to assume that your play isn't going to work and have personnel in the game that can make an adjustment if the play breaks down. In that situation it would have made more sense to inbound the ball to Burton or Jamil, set 2 high staggered screens and let the dribble guy decide which screen to use to get to the rim. After the screen, all players crash the paint for a tip, rebound. You force St. John's to not foul (based on the officiating, not likely), or you get the ball on the rim and see what happens. There is no excuse (much like the Providence inbound), for Derrick to be in the game in that situation. He is consistently put into positions that he cannot succeed.
Well lets look at the facts. Buzz had said he drew up two plays one for a zone one for man. So he game planned right there for two things that didn't work.
He then had the play designed to have Burton along the block, Gardner at the high post and Jake in the corner...three options in case the primary option (Gardner at high post) didn't work. If none of that worked there was the last option swinging over to Jamil...that option was used.
Why? Because there was confusion between a Freshman and a Senior as to the defense St. John's was using...that is something you can't game plan for...unless you have a Vander or Mayo where they just take over...Mayo fouled out.
Your option to inbound to Burton or Jamil, would not have worked at all in this scenario as they ran a zone...the staggered screens aren't going to help you there. Instead now you have the ball in the hands of two players who are not experienced with how to attack a zone from the top.
So, your argument is that the ball should have been inbounded to Davante and he should have brought it up? Intriguing. Jamil? He showed he didn't want it. Jake? Who can't create a shot? Deonte, for the first time all year, should have received the ball and dribbled it up? Buzz gave it his PG, who was supposed to give it to Davante,....... but wait, Deonte and Davante are in the exact same spot and the clock is ticking......
Quote from: tower912 on March 09, 2014, 01:16:21 PM
So, your argument is that the ball should have been inbounded to Davante and he should have brought it up? Intriguing. Jamil? He showed he didn't want it. Jake? Who can't create a shot? Deonte, for the first time all year, should have received the ball and dribbled it up? Buzz gave it his PG, who was supposed to give it to Davante,....... but wait, Deonte and Davante are in the exact same spot and the clock is ticking......
First of all, John Wooden, the ball was inbounded at half court. So nobody would have had to bring it up the court (again no need for Derrick to be in the game). Secondly, you inbound the ball to a guy who can create his own shot which would be Deonte or Jamil. You run a lot of motion (jake running the baseline for example) to start the play to see if they are in zone or man. Then you either get the ball to Deonte or Jamil (which ever one did not receive the inbound pass) at the free throw line if it is a zone or you let Deonte or Jamil use a screen to get to the hoop if it is man. You can claim Buzz is a genius all you want, but both scenarios I laid out are better sets than what he tried to run with the personnel he had in the game.
Quote from: tower912 on March 08, 2014, 08:48:25 PM
Also explained. At the end of the first overtime, with Todd in the game, Buzz let them play through it, with the intent of Todd making the play. With Todd fouled out and no one on the floor who could really get their own shot, he drew up a play. One for a man defense, one for a zone. I realize that you are down on buzz right now, Chapman, but tell me how you argue against that logic.
It's not a this year thing, it's been a weakness throughout Buzz's tenure. His "special teams" as he calls them, inbounds, out of timeout, end end of clock situations, have always been poor despite supposedly being a focus in practices. With very limited exception, all of our successes in these situations have been the players making something of the play after whatever Buzz drew up broke down. Yesterday would have been the same if Derrick made the shot. The logic is fine if the coach's track record of drawing up plays that the players can grasp and execute in these situations is anything but abysmal. As soon as the timeout was called the result was inevitably going to be a busted play.
Quote from: BenCat12 on March 09, 2014, 01:30:59 PM
First of all, John Wooden, the ball was inbounded at half court. So nobody would have had to bring it up the court (again no need for Derrick to be in the game). Secondly, you inbound the ball to a guy who can create his own shot which would be Deonte or Jamil. You run a lot of motion (jake running the baseline for example) to start the play to see if they are in zone or man. Then you either get the ball to Deonte or Jamil (which ever one did not receive the inbound pass) at the free throw line if it is a zone or you let Deonte or Jamil use a screen to get to the hoop if it is man. You can claim Buzz is a genius all you want, but both scenarios I laid out are better sets than what he tried to run with the personnel he had in the game.
Obviously we should defer to you from now on. Admittedly your basketball knowledge exceeds that of the coach that has taken us to 5 straight NCAA's, including 2 Sweet 16's and an Elite Eight. As others have pointed out, there were contingencies drawn up. They just weren't executed. I know, that's Buzz's fault too. Next time do us all a favor and send in your play. Then we wouldn't have to have this discussion, and I wouldn't have to take an AA assessment and could go back to slurping with my "Buzz glasses" on while you and Willie do whatever it is you do with each other between diagramming plays in your parent's basements.
The bottom line is our starting point guard missed a wide open 8 footer for the win.
What I also don't understand is why the timeout was called. No timeout was called when when Todd tied the game against Providence and no timeout was called when Todd tied the game yesterday. Why let the defense set up?!
Quote from: BenCat12 on March 09, 2014, 01:08:14 PM
Here is an idea, if you get so worked up about reading a message board that you need to drink, you probably have more serious problems.
Are you implying there is something wrong with needing a drink after reading posts on this board? That I shouldn't be using this board as an excuse for drinking a glass of scotch?
Shoot.
I am going to have to come up with another legitimate basis (excuse) for reaching for the old bottle.
Quote from: BenCat12 on March 09, 2014, 01:30:59 PM
First of all, John Wooden, the ball was inbounded at half court. So nobody would have had to bring it up the court (again no need for Derrick to be in the game). Secondly, you inbound the ball to a guy who can create his own shot which would be Deonte or Jamil. You run a lot of motion (jake running the baseline for example) to start the play to see if they are in zone or man. Then you either get the ball to Deonte or Jamil (which ever one did not receive the inbound pass) at the free throw line if it is a zone or you let Deonte or Jamil use a screen to get to the hoop if it is man. You can claim Buzz is a genius all you want, but both scenarios I laid out are better sets than what he tried to run with the personnel he had in the game.
How many times this year have Jamil or Deonte successfully got their own shot from beyond the top of the key off of motion? I am comfortable guessing it is around the same number of times that Derrick has successfully made a 3. The play as drawn up would have gotten the ball to Davante at the foul line with several seconds left and the option to either create a shot for himself or hit the guy in the space vacated by the collapsing defenders. I like the play as drawn up. When Davante and Deonte went to the same spot, all bets were off.
Quote from: connie on March 09, 2014, 01:53:44 PM
Obviously we should defer to you from now on. Admittedly your basketball knowledge exceeds that of the coach that has taken us to 5 straight NCAA's, including 2 Sweet 16's and an Elite Eight. As others have pointed out, there were contingencies drawn up. They just weren't executed. I know, that's Buzz's fault too. Next time do us all a favor and send in your play. Then we wouldn't have to have this discussion, and I wouldn't have to take an AA assessment and could go back to slurping with my "Buzz glasses" on while you and Willie do whatever it is you do with each other between diagramming plays in your parent's basements.
Don't get your keyboard wet with your tears..... ::)
Doubt the warranty covers that. Go have a drink
Quote from: tower912 on March 09, 2014, 02:00:10 PM
How many times this year have Jamil or Deonte successfully got their own shot from beyond the top of the key off of motion. I am comfortable guessing it is around the same number of times that Derrick has successfully made a 3. The play as drawn up would have gotten the ball to Davante at the foul line with several seconds left and the option to either create a shot for himself or hit the guy in the space vacated by the collapsing defenders. I like the play as drawn up. When Davante and Deonte went to the same spot, all bets were off.
I don't know how to put this more clearly, and quite frankly I can't believe people don't get this.....no matter what the play design is, you cannot have a guy in the game, who cannot create his own shot, dribble 10 of the final 13 seconds off the clock. You can't rely on the execution of a complicated drawn up play. You need to rely on the guys who can create their own shot. Buzz often does this when he uses Mayo on final plays, but Mayo fouled out and he abandoned the strategy. Deonte is excellent at creating his own shot (sometimes to a fault), I would rather have him take it to the hoop.
Quote from: BenCat12 on March 09, 2014, 02:20:12 PM
I don't know how to put this more clearly, and quite frankly I can't believe people don't get this.....no matter what the play design is, you cannot have a guy in the game, who cannot create his own shot, dribble 10 of the final 13 seconds off the clock. You can't rely on the execution of a complicated drawn up play. You need to rely on the guys who can create their own shot. Buzz often does this when he uses Mayo on final plays, but Mayo fouled out and he abandoned the strategy. Deonte is excellent at creating his own shot (sometimes to a fault), I would rather have him take it to the hoop.
You are trying to engage in a basketball debate with Tower who is convinced up and down Derrick never makes a mistake on the basketball court, and is the least of this team's problems. And Tower offering up the notion Burton wouldn't be able to create his own shot if given the rock is further evidence of a very limited basketball IQ.
Play should have gone through Burton..period...inbound it to him...and let him go to work. Buzz always talks about needing/having a guy "who can go get you one." Said that about DJO, Todd, Vander etc. With Mayo out the game, the next best option is Deonte - freshman or not.
Quote from: Ners on March 09, 2014, 02:28:04 PM
You are trying to engage in a basketball debate with Tower who is convinced up and down Derrick never makes a mistake on the basketball court, and is the least of this team's problems. And Tower offering up the notion Burton wouldn't be able to create his own shot if given the rock is further evidence of a very limited basketball IQ.
Play should have gone through Burton..period...inbound it to him...and let him go to work. Buzz always talks about needing/having a guy "who can go get you one." Said that about DJO, Todd, Vander etc. With Mayo out the game, the next best option is Deonte - freshman or not.
Obviously we should defer to you from now on. Admittedly your basketball knowledge exceeds that of the coach that has taken us to 5 straight NCAA's, including 2 Sweet 16's and an Elite Eight. As others have pointed out, there were contingencies drawn up. They just weren't executed. I know, that's Buzz's fault too. Next time do us all a favor and send in your play. Then we wouldn't have to have this discussion, and I wouldn't have to take an AA assessment and could go back to slurping with my "Buzz glasses" on while you and Willie do whatever it is you do with each other between diagramming plays in your parent's basements.
Quote from: BenCat12 on March 09, 2014, 02:20:12 PM
I don't know how to put this more clearly, and quite frankly I can't believe people don't get this.....no matter what the play design is, you cannot have a guy in the game, who cannot create his own shot, dribble 10 of the final 13 seconds off the clock. You can't rely on the execution of a complicated drawn up play. You need to rely on the guys who can create their own shot. Buzz often does this when he uses Mayo on final plays, but Mayo fouled out and he abandoned the strategy. Deonte is excellent at creating his own shot (sometimes to a fault), I would rather have him take it to the hoop.
I agree to an extent. The last thing I wanted in that sequence was for Derrick to shoot or handle the ball for 10 of the 13 seconds. But look at it part by part. Derrick dribbled up. Gardner was supposed to be at the high block, where he was supposed to receive the entry pass with several seconds left. Derrick was then supposed to get the hell out of the way, because no one wanted the ball to come back to him. Ox wasn't there. He and Deonte were in the same spot, at the low block. By the time Ox started to go to the high post, Derrick had already given up on him and was taking the ball across the top to Jamil. Jamil got the ball with just under 4 seconds left. He took a dribble to the lane and met defensive resistance. At that point, he could have (A) pulled up and shot, (B) split the double team and taken the shot, (C) hit Ox at the foul line, where he was now open and waiting, (D) the horrible choice that he made.
It clearly didn't go the way Buzz drew it up. Your argument is that Derrick never should have touched the ball. I understand but disagree. I like the other options less. And once Ox wasn't where he was supposed to be, Derrick's options were limited. You also seem to imply that he shouldn't be on the floor at all. Under the circumstance, the options were Otule, Dawson (who hadn't played in over an hour) or Juan/STjr/JJJ, none of whom had removed their sweats. None of those are improvements.
Quote from: tower912 on March 09, 2014, 03:26:25 PM
I agree to an extent. The last thing I wanted in that sequence was for Derrick to shoot or handle the ball for 10 of the 13 seconds. But look at it part by part. Derrick dribbled up. Gardner was supposed to be at the high block, where he was supposed to receive the entry pass with several seconds left. Derrick was then supposed to get the hell out of the way, because no one wanted the ball to come back to him. Ox wasn't there. He and Deonte were in the same spot, at the low block. By the time Ox started to go to the high post, Derrick had already given up on him and was taking the ball across the top to Jamil. Jamil got the ball with just under 4 seconds left. He took a dribble to the lane and met defensive resistance. At that point, he could have (A) pulled up and shot, (B) split the double team and taken the shot, (C) hit Ox at the foul line, where he was now open and waiting, (D) the horrible choice that he made.
It clearly didn't go the way Buzz drew it up. Your argument is that Derrick never should have touched the ball. I understand but disagree. I like the other options less. And once Ox wasn't where he was supposed to be, Derrick's options were limited. You also seem to imply that he shouldn't be on the floor at all. Under the circumstance, the options were Otule, Dawson (who hadn't played in over an hour) or Juan/STjr/JJJ, none of whom had removed their sweats. None of those are improvements.
You missed one option that would have been best. St. John's forgot about Burton with the clock winding down, he was open for a lob pass as soon as Jamil got the ball. Wouldn't an alley-oop from Jamil to Burton to win the game been a pretty sight.
Ners, since BC 12 quoted you.... Derrick can do wrong. Terrible shooter. Confidence completely gone. Boneheaded play at the end of the Providence game. Just dumb. Conversely, 9 assists, 6 rebounds, 2 turnovers in 47 minutes. Deonte hadn't made a shot since the first half. And the ones he had taken in the second were forced and ugly. With that line up, IMO the options are
1. Gardner going to the rack, having received the ball with several seconds left and having had time to make a move.
2. Jamil going to the rack
3. Jake with the spot up 3.
4. Deonte, catching the pass from Davante in the short corner with about 5 seconds left, going to the hole.
I could flip flop options 3 and 4.
Quote from: tower912 on March 09, 2014, 03:26:25 PM
I agree to an extent. The last thing I wanted in that sequence was for Derrick to shoot or handle the ball for 10 of the 13 seconds. But look at it part by part. Derrick dribbled up. Gardner was supposed to be at the high block, where he was supposed to receive the entry pass with several seconds left. Derrick was then supposed to get the hell out of the way, because no one wanted the ball to come back to him. Ox wasn't there. He and Deonte were in the same spot, at the low block. By the time Ox started to go to the high post, Derrick had already given up on him and was taking the ball across the top to Jamil. Jamil got the ball with just under 4 seconds left. He took a dribble to the lane and met defensive resistance. At that point, he could have (A) pulled up and shot, (B) split the double team and taken the shot, (C) hit Ox at the foul line, where he was now open and waiting, (D) the horrible choice that he made.
It clearly didn't go the way Buzz drew it up. Your argument is that Derrick never should have touched the ball. I understand but disagree. I like the other options less. And once Ox wasn't where he was supposed to be, Derrick's options were limited. You also seem to imply that he shouldn't be on the floor at all. Under the circumstance, the options were Otule, Dawson (who hadn't played in over an hour) or Juan/STjr/JJJ, none of whom had removed their sweats. None of those are improvements.
The play in theory is fine, IF it works, the problem is it is too complicated and too easy to defend. Thus my saying that you can't have Derrick handle the ball if the play breaks down. It was a mistake by Buzz. As for your personnel question, Dawson or STjr would have been better, for different reasons. Dawson as a spot up shooter and STjr as an offensive rebounder. Under no circumstance should Derrick have been in the game. Just like he should not have been in the game against Providence on the inbound play for the reason you mention above. If the situation was reversed and St. Johns had the ball, then absolutely Derrick should have been in the game. I am not a derrick hater, he has value, but he should never be on the court in late game offensive situations.
Quote from: tower912 on March 09, 2014, 03:35:40 PM
Ners, since BC 12 quoted you.... Derrick can do wrong. Terrible shooter. Confidence completely gone. Boneheaded play at the end of the Providence game. Just dumb. Conversely, 9 assists, 6 rebounds, 2 turnovers in 47 minutes. Deonte hadn't made a shot since the first half. And the ones he had taken in the second were forced and ugly. With that line up, IMO the options are
1. Gardner going to the rack, having received the ball with several seconds left and having had time to make a move.
2. Jamil going to the rack
3. Jake with the spot up 3.
4. Deonte, catching the pass from Davante in the short corner with about 5 seconds left, going to the hole.
I could flip flop options 3 and 4.
So Gardner going to the rack from the elbow is a better option than Deonte or Jamil going to the rack? ok I think we will just have to agree to disagree on this one and from now on. Perhaps a dual ignore is in order?
Why ignore? We are having a difference of opinion with honest dialogue and no hyperbole. We disagree about a couple of things. I would never put a completely cold player in the game at that point. You would. I think Davante at the elbow with about 8 seconds to play is a great option. You prefer others. We have debated this into the ground, but without any real rancor, at least on my part. I enjoyed it.
Quote from: tower912 on March 09, 2014, 03:50:20 PM
Why ignore? We are having a difference of opinion with honest dialogue and no hyperbole. We disagree about a couple of things. I would never put a completely cold player in the game at that point. You would. I think Davante at the elbow with about 8 seconds to play is a great option. You prefer others. We have debated this into the ground, but without any real rancor, at least on my part. I enjoyed it.
There are no hard feelings, I am just saying, we don't agree on anything it seems. You defend Buzz at all costs and I like to look at things more honestly. It is what it is, point is, neither of us is going to change our opinion. Davante at the elbow is a poor option because he can't beat his man off the dribble. The only two guys I feel are capable of doing that are Deonte and Jamil. I don't think Buzz sucks, I just think he makes mistakes, and I don't see anything wrong with pointing them out. Others think he walks on water and is above criticism. I can't imagine what this board is going to look like if Derrick is playing 20+ minutes at PG next year, with the same results.
Quote from: BenCat12 on March 09, 2014, 03:41:08 PM
The play in theory is fine, IF it works, the problem is it is too complicated and too easy to defend. Thus my saying that you can't have Derrick handle the ball if the play breaks down. It was a mistake by Buzz. As for your personnel question, Dawson or STjr would have been better, for different reasons. Dawson as a spot up shooter and STjr as an offensive rebounder. Under no circumstance should Derrick have been in the game. Just like he should not have been in the game against Providence on the inbound play for the reason you mention above. If the situation was reversed and St. Johns had the ball, then absolutely Derrick should have been in the game. I am not a derrick hater, he has value, but he should never be on the court in late game offensive situations.
It is never a mistake to have the PG have the ball in that situation in college basketball....the other guys have to stop being so scary (especially as Seniors on their day] and go get the damn ball!There was nothing wrong with the play or the players running it.
A Senior should NEVER BE LATE or tardy to their spot in that situation. If you are then what good are you? I was not a mistake by Buzz! The only thing I would give you is who the PG is. I would have had Todd Mayo handle the ball all day long [unless he had fouled out?].
And please give it a rest blaming everything on thing on Buzz. That is getting tiresome...He was just in the huddle with them and I am sure they practice that play every day. It comes down to plain execution, and heart and fearlessness or adaptation. No one adapts better then Buzz...imo. We are all experts in hindsight...
I will never tell a coach to not put the ball in the hands of his PG on a play like that. You can debate that if the PG can't shoot free throws but they were not going to foul in that situation.
And actually I MIGHT HAVE HAD DERRICK WILSON TAKE THE SHOT...and fool them all! What if he hit it? It would have done wonders for his confidence and the teams in him. But seniors can't run from the ball...
Period.
Quote from: Ners on March 09, 2014, 02:28:04 PM
You are trying to engage in a basketball debate with Tower who is convinced up and down Derrick never makes a mistake on the basketball court, and is the least of this team's problems. And Tower offering up the notion Burton wouldn't be able to create his own shot if given the rock is further evidence of a very limited basketball IQ.
Play should have gone through Burton..period...inbound it to him...and let him go to work. Buzz always talks about needing/having a guy "who can go get you one." Said that about DJO, Todd, Vander etc. With Mayo out the game, the next best option is Deonte - freshman or not.
Now this I agree with....its that simple. If a senior doesn't want it, then give it to the freshmen and ascending star and have a changing of the guard right there if you want to embarrass your guys who played for you 4 years right in front of their families...
But no way in heck is Buzz going to override his Seniors and give that ball to a freshman as the first option on Senior's Day with the game in the balance, and you better not either if you are a coach.
You just, . . . don't. Am I contradicting myself. Hardly. Deonte should not have been the first option under any and all circumstances regardless to the lack of confidence you have in Derrick.
Buzz does not have that discriminating luxury and knee jerk reaction we have of these players...he does not think like you or I. So he is not wrong in what he did and no one can judge him in here rightfully on that imo. You have come to far with Derrick to kick him to the curb.
Like I said, I would have had Derrick shoot it..if the first option broke down and to heck with it...
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on March 09, 2014, 04:03:23 PM
It is never a mistake to have the PG have the ball in that situation in college basketball....the other guys have to stop being so scary (especially as Seniors on their day] and go get the damn ball!There was nothing wrong with the play or the players running it.
A Senior should NEVER BE LATE or tardy to their spot in that situation. If you are then what good are you? I was not a mistake by Buzz! The only thing I would give you is who the PG is. I would have had Todd Mayo handle the ball all day long [unless he had fouled out?].
And please give it a rest blaming everything on thing on Buzz. That is getting tiresome...He was just in the huddle with them and I am sure they practice that play every day. It comes down to plain execution, and heart and fearlessness or adaptation. No one adapts better then Buzz...imo. We are all experts in hindsight...
I will never tell a coach to not put the ball in the hands of his PG on a play like that. You can debate that if the PG can't shoot free throws but they were not going to foul in that situation.
And actually I MIGHT HAVE HAD DERRICK WILSON TAKE THE SHOT...and fool them all! What if he hit it? It would have done wonders for his confidence and the teams in him. But seniors can't run from the ball...
Period.
It is when Derrick Wilson is your point guard. Nobody ran from the ball. Derrick gave Jamil the ball in a terrible spot. What exactly was Jamil supposed to do? Shoot over two defenders?
Put it this way, if the play was run exactly the same way and you replaced Derrick with Dawson it makes more sense because Dawson can hit that shot. The personnel was poor and there is no arguing that. Derrick should not have been on the floor.
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on March 09, 2014, 04:14:22 PM
Now this I agree with....its that simple. If a senior doesn't want it, then give it to the freshmen and ascending star and have a changing of the guard right there if you want to embarrass your guys who played for you 4 years right in front of their families...
But no way in heck is Buzz going to override his Seniors and give that ball to a freshman as the first option on Senior's Day with the game in the balance, and you better not either if you are a coach.
You just, . . . don't. Am I contradicting myself. Hardly.
So now senior day trumps a much needed win? OK ::).....If a freshmen gives you the best chance to win you design the play for him. Inbounding to Jamil or Deonte would have made more sense because of their ability to create their own shot, that is all I am saying. One of those two should have received the pass and Derrick shouldn't have been in the game. Those were the mistakes.
Quote from: BenCat12 on March 09, 2014, 04:20:12 PM
It is when Derrick Wilson is your point guard. Nobody ran from the ball. Derrick gave Jamil the ball in a terrible spot. What exactly was Jamil supposed to do? Shoot over two defenders?
Put it this way, if the play was run exactly the same way and you replaced Derrick with Dawson it makes more sense because Dawson can hit that shot. The personnel was poor and there is no arguing that. Derrick should not have been on the floor.
That is your opinion...but like I said, no coach is going to do that. No coach is going to put a freshman in that situation no matter what you think of Derrick.
There was nothing wrong with where he gave him the ball,if they had gotten over there in time. They were too late coming to it. You are looking for a reason just to replace Derrick. Did Todd foul out?
Now if you want to debate the merit of whether Derrick should have been in or not I might have had Todd there but it goes to show you how vital PG's are in college basketball. Losing Vander and Duane hurt us all year...That is Vander or Duane's play all day long.
Quote from: BenCat12 on March 09, 2014, 04:23:42 PM
So now senior day trumps a much needed win? OK ::).....If a freshmen gives you the best chance to win you design the play for him. Inbounding to Jamil or Deonte would have made more sense because of their ability to create their own shot, that is all I am saying. One of those two should have received the pass and Derrick shouldn't have been in the game. Those were the mistakes.
YES...it does.
Yes sir, it does. Absolutely. You go down with your seniors. I should not have had to even answer this. In CBB yes it does. You sink or swim with them or what have you or they accomplished in 4 years under your tutelage?
And had they come through then your underclassmen see that and understand what it takes to get there and how hard you have to work. You have to win, the right way. Buzz is about that . . .
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on March 09, 2014, 04:25:31 PM
That is your opinion...but like I said, no coach is going to do that. No coach is going to put a freshman in that situation no matter what you think of Derrick.
There was nothing wrong with where he gave him the ball,if they had gotten over there in time. They were too late coming to it. You are looking for a reason just to replace Derrick. Did Todd foul out?
Now if you want to debate the merit of whether Derrick should have been in or not I might have had Todd there but it goes to show you how vital PG's are in college basketball. Losing Vander and Duane hurt us all year...That is Vander or Duane's play all day long.
And most coaches wouldn't start a PG of Derrick's caliber in a major conference. What's your point? Buzz has to compound mistakes by leaving Derrick in and not playing the players that are better suited for certain situations? OK? Buzz prides himself on situations and substitutions, yet he consistently messes up his personnel in late game offensive situations.
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on March 09, 2014, 04:26:42 PM
YES...it does.
Yes sir, it does. Absolutely. You go down with your seniors. I should have have to even answer this. In CBB yes it does.
Yeah Im sure the Gardners, Wilsons, Thomas, and Otule families would have been pissed if Deonte Burton hit a game winning shot on senior day.
You are joking right?
Quote from: BenCat12 on March 09, 2014, 04:30:14 PM
Yeah Im sure the Gardners, Wilsons, Thomas, and Otule families would have been pissed if Deonte Burton hit a game winning shot on senior day.
You are joking right?
No, I am not joking. I see you do not understand. I know if my son [or daughter] was a senior and I had come to enjoy him or her on that day before their graduation in their last home game perhaps, and I wanted to see him go out well sure I would like to know he was an option on that play. Wouldn't any parent? Go ask them...
But then again I am huge sports fan, some parents are not so they would not really care.
I would.
Especially Jamil being from Wisconsin, you darn right I would be upset for him if he was not involved in a big play like that on this day of all days and then a Freshman got the ball? I would want my kid to have that chance because those are life changing plays right there. . .it just broke down.
Some plays are gifts from the player to the University they played for that took them in, and what better way then to hit a shot that wins a game on a special day to perhaps help them get in the tournament. Hell yes I want my kid to take it and would be upset if he was not an option. That's just me...its not right or wrong.
Right or wrong there is an emotional element to this my friend. These are not just fans like you. This is a totally different connect then the way you are looking at it. Wait until you have kids and you will understand. LOL.
Quote from: BenCat12 on March 09, 2014, 03:57:25 PM
There are no hard feelings, I am just saying, we don't agree on anything it seems. You defend Buzz at all costs and I like to look at things more honestly. It is what it is, point is, neither of us is going to change our opinion. Davante at the elbow is a poor option because he can't beat his man off the dribble. The only two guys I feel are capable of doing that are Deonte and Jamil. I don't think Buzz sucks, I just think he makes mistakes, and I don't see anything wrong with pointing them out. Others think he walks on water and is above criticism. I can't imagine what this board is going to look like if Derrick is playing 20+ minutes at PG next year, with the same results.
I don't think Buzz is infallible. I advocated early and consistently to make the 5th starter an offensive threat, a la Burton, Mayo, or JJJ (when he was still scoring). I was very critical of the Oxtule line up, because it was just painful to watch either of those two trying to chase a scoring wing on the perimeter. I've chafed at the odd substitution patterns, though I accept his explanation that he doesn't know what he is going to get from player X from game to game. I know that Buzz installs defense first and not offense until December, but I think there has to be a better way. There are coaches whose system owns his system. But I can't change him, so I don't spend hundreds of posts trying to. And I think that next year, being forced to play young guys more than he ever has, will be good for him. It will force him to loosen the reins a little.
I just don't think Dawson is a better option this year at point than Derrick. And so many other disagreements flow from that.
Quote from: tower912 on March 09, 2014, 06:00:30 PM
I don't think Buzz is infallible. I advocated early and consistently to make the 5th starter an offensive threat, a la Burton, Mayo, or JJJ (when he was still scoring). I was very critical of the Oxtule line up, because it was just painful to watch either of those two trying to chase a scoring wing on the perimeter. I've chafed at the odd substitution patterns, though I accept his explanation that he doesn't know what he is going to get from player X from game to game. I know that Buzz installs defense first and not offense until December, but I think there has to be a better way. There are coaches whose system owns his system. But I can't change him, so I don't spend hundreds of posts trying to. And I think that next year, being forced to play young guys more than he ever has, will be good for him. It will force him to loosen the reins a little.
I just don't think Dawson is a better option this year at point than Derrick. And so many other disagreements flow from that.
Any mattyv's basic and advanced stats prove that to be a statistical truth as well
It looked to me like Bush screwed up that last play, so now we will need 5 plus years of somebody to straighten things out.
Quote from: tower912 on March 09, 2014, 06:00:30 PM
I don't think Buzz is infallible. I advocated early and consistently to make the 5th starter an offensive threat, a la Burton, Mayo, or JJJ (when he was still scoring). I was very critical of the Oxtule line up, because it was just painful to watch either of those two trying to chase a scoring wing on the perimeter. I've chafed at the odd substitution patterns, though I accept his explanation that he doesn't know what he is going to get from player X from game to game. I know that Buzz installs defense first and not offense until December, but I think there has to be a better way. There are coaches whose system owns his system. But I can't change him, so I don't spend hundreds of posts trying to. And I think that next year, being forced to play young guys more than he ever has, will be good for him. It will force him to loosen the reins a little.
I just don't think Dawson is a better option this year at point than Derrick. And so many other disagreements flow from that.
I don't think either is the answer. I was pushing for Mayo to be given the job once I heard Duane was injured. He is more dynamic and that is what this team needed out of that position. I could live with 3 to 4 turnovers a game if it meant a more dynamic offense. I also think Mayo is a very good on-ball defender, not so much off the ball. I think Mayo guarding the other teams point and shadowing him up the court would have done wonders for Todd's focus and involvement in the game. Buzz chose to go in another direction, that is his prerogative. I am allowed to disagree with it.
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on March 09, 2014, 04:34:15 PM
No, I am not joking. I see you do not understand. I know if my son [or daughter] was a senior and I had come to enjoy him or her on that day before their graduation in their last home game perhaps, and I wanted to see him go out well sure I would like to know he was an option on that play. Wouldn't any parent? Go ask them...You are delusional. So in other words, despite Buzz's love affair with Chris and his constant praising of all things Otule, you would be offended today if you were his mother because he was not on the court for the last play?
But then again I am huge sports fan, some parents are not so they would not really care.
I would.
Especially Jamil being from Wisconsin, you darn right I would be upset for him if he was not involved in a big play like that on this day of all days and then a Freshman got the ball? I would want my kid to have that chance because those are life changing plays right there. . .it just broke down.
Some plays are gifts from the player to the University they played for that took them in, and what better way then to hit a shot that wins a game on a special day to perhaps help them get in the tournament. Hell yes I want my kid to take it and would be upset if he was not an option. That's just me...its not right or wrongNo, LOL, it is wrong for any mother to have that attitude.
Right or wrong there is an emotional element to this my friend. These are not just fans like you. This is a totally different connect then the way you are looking at it. Wait until you have kids and you will understand. LOL. Save the lecture. I have kids and have coached them in many sports over the years, some have been the star some have been the role player. The key is to understand your child's limitations and abilities. Everyone is important to a team in one way or another. Some help in practice, some take game winning shots, but seniority and personal attachment should never impact a coaches decision in who takes that shot. Based on your attitude I really hope you do not have kids and god forbid they play sports. If so, I am sure ill see you on nightline or 20/20 someday as the crazy lady swinging her purse at the coach on the field.
Todd starting at the point? I can see that. I don't necessarily agree, as he would have to change his game, but I don't dismiss it out of hand, either. It still does nothing to change that final play as he had fouled out, so Derrick would have been in the game by default, like he was last year and the year before when Junior was out of the game.
Quote from: tower912 on March 09, 2014, 07:23:51 PM
Todd starting at the point? I can see that. I don't necessarily agree, as he would have to change his game, but I don't dismiss it out of hand, either. It still does nothing to change that final play as he had fouled out, so Derrick would have been in the game by default, like he was last year and the year before when Junior was out of the game.
It doesn't change the final play you are right, that was meant to address the point you made about arguments involving Wilson vs. Dawson. I am on neither side of that argument, as they both have major downfalls that's why I was pushing for Todd, more versatility.
The other part is where we disagree and that isn't going to change. I believe there is no reason for Derrick to be on the court in late game offensive situations and you disagree. Not much more to be said.
You got to have talent. Years ago after Tan Tommy left, Sean Miller was available, boy did I catch "HELL"
Buzz had one lucky year. We needed a name coach, and got middle of the pack person. Buzz over-
coaches.
Quote from: Earl Tatum on March 09, 2014, 07:32:57 PM
You got to have talent. Years ago after Tan Tommy left, Sean Miller was available, boy did I catch "HELL"
Buzz had one lucky year. We needed a name coach, and got middle of the pack person. Buzz over-
coaches.
I wouldn't call Buzz middle of the pack person in any way, shape or form. He's a great story, great human being...and like all of us...makes mistakes...this season he made some mistakes...but he deserves a pass or two after all he's accomplished thus far at MU. He's getting talent to MU which is somewhat challenging, and we'll be good again - hopefully next year - but if not next, definitely the one after next.
Quote from: MUHoopsFan2 on March 09, 2014, 04:25:31 PM
That is your opinion...but like I said, no coach is going to do that. No coach is going to put a freshman in that situation no matter what you think of Derrick.
Some coaches will. Different situation, but with Shaq and a team full of veterans, Phil called a play for Kobe with the season on the line. 19 years old. A rookie. He missed and the season was over - but the point is, a great coach will make that kind of decision. DW should not be on the floor for an offensive possession with the game on the line. As we saw yesterday, he has nothing to offer offensively on an end-of-game play.
Quote from: BenCat12 on March 09, 2014, 01:08:14 PM
Here is an idea, if you get so worked up about reading a message board that you need to drink, you probably have more serious problems.
As for the actual basketball part of your post, yes you assume your play is not going to work and you option if the drawn up play doesn't work. If you can take your Buzz glasses off for two seconds you'll see that putting the ball in Derrick's hands and trying to get an entry pass into the low block to Davante are not feasible options in that situation. I am not saying my play would work, but it is more realistic. In that situation the ball almost always gets inbounded to the player that the coach wants to take the final shot. It was a poorly designed play in a long list of poor sets we've seen this year. It wasn't as bad as the Providence inbound but close.
I don't think you understand what Buzz's play was about - it was not about getting the ball to Davante in the low post - you are wrong. Go watch it again. Davante set a high screen coming out of a huh post at the elbow.
Quote from: BenCat12 on March 09, 2014, 03:57:25 PM
There are no hard feelings, I am just saying, we don't agree on anything it seems. You defend Buzz at all costs and I like to look at things more honestly.
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbdlbynpF61qbn6bbo1_500.gif)
Quote from: BenCat12 on March 09, 2014, 04:20:12 PM
It is when Derrick Wilson is your point guard. Nobody ran from the ball. Derrick gave Jamil the ball in a terrible spot. What exactly was Jamil supposed to do? Shoot over two defenders?
Put it this way, if the play was run exactly the same way and you replaced Derrick with Dawson it makes more sense because Dawson can hit that shot. The personnel was poor and there is no arguing that. Derrick should not have been on the floor.
I'll jump in a little on this....the play broke down and Wilson had to improvise correct? That was not Wilson's fault correct? They then had to scramble around and out of it we got a clean 10foot look at the basket for a win, right? Wilson has a lot of deficiencies and I don't want him taking that last look either. However, if your whole point is that there is going to be a scramble and the original play is going to blow up I'd rather have Derrick in there who can improvise better and less likely to panic than a very cold John Dawson. Neither is an ideal scenario but you leave Wilson in their because he's got more experience and a better facilitator.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 10, 2014, 09:55:47 AM
(http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbdlbynpF61qbn6bbo1_500.gif)
You caught that huh? Sorry, Ill resort to name calling and personal insults next time. Seems to be more effective.
Quote from: mu03eng on March 10, 2014, 10:20:02 AM
I'll jump in a little on this....the play broke down and Wilson had to improvise correct? yes That was not Wilson's fault correct? YesThey then had to scramble around and out of it we got a clean 10foot look at the basket for a win, right? Yes Wilson has a lot of deficiencies and I don't want him taking that last look either. However, if your whole point is that there is going to be a scramble and the original play is going to blow up I'd rather have Derrick in there who can improvise better and less likely to panic than a very cold John Dawsonno. Neither is an ideal scenario but you leave Wilson in their because he's got more experience and a better facilitator.
If you read the entire thread, I've said several times you have to inbound the ball to your best playmaker, the guy who has the best shot of creating something for himself or others. IMO that is Deonte or Jamil, guys that can beat someone off the dribble. I'm not advocating Dawson being the primary ball handler or even being in the game. I could make an argument for STjr, Otule or Dawson all being better options than Derrick in that situation. The play was not Derricks fault, he should not have been put in that position as he does not have the skill set to make a play in that situation. The play Buzz ran against Davidson with Vander would have been a better option IMO (Cadougan was in the game but hiding in the opposite corner, same could have been done with Dawson). Inbound to Deonte or Jamil and have them penetrate a gap against a zone or use a screen against man. It was a poor decision to inbound the ball to Derrick, that is my point.
Quote from: BenCat12 on March 10, 2014, 10:48:07 AM
You caught that huh? Sorry, Ill resort to name calling and personal insults next time. Seems to be more effective.
Mostly I just wanted to use that GIF. Been sitting on it for a few days. ;D
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on March 10, 2014, 11:10:30 AM
Mostly I just wanted to use that GIF. Been sitting on it for a few days. ;D
What else do you sit on?
I kid, I kid ;)
Quote from: BenCat12 on March 10, 2014, 10:56:31 AM
If you read the entire thread, I've said several times you have to inbound the ball to your best playmaker, the guy who has the best shot of creating something for himself or others. IMO that is Deonte or Jamil, guys that can beat someone off the dribble. I'm not advocating Dawson being the primary ball handler or even being in the game. I could make an argument for STjr, Otule or Dawson all being better options than Derrick in that situation. The play was not Derricks fault, he should not have been put in that position as he does not have the skill set to make a play in that situation. The play Buzz ran against Davidson with Vander would have been a better option IMO (Cadougan was in the game but hiding in the opposite corner, same could have been done with Dawson). Inbound to Deonte or Jamil and have them penetrate a gap against a zone or use a screen against man. It was a poor decision to inbound the ball to Derrick, that is my point.
I did read the entire thread, and while your position isn't a wrong one, it's also a matter of philosophy. You put the ball in Derrick's hands there because it forces the other team to guard him. If you inbound to Jamil or Deonte you are allowing the help off Derrick immediately. Even if you had Dawson in the game, you are allowing help off of him to the primary. You inbound to Derrick, because when you do initiate to the primary or secondary scorer there is much less time for the defense to react and collapse.
I also disagree about Jamil being the primary scorer. The two scorers I want taking the shot, with Mayo unavailable, are Davante or Deonte...Davante has to be the primary. And Davante isn't going to receive the inbound and dribble into the high post. If Davante goes high post and gets fed the ball there he has the option for his jump shot, a quick back down and shot, or a pass to Deonte in the low post who's man has helped off of him. Jamil only becomes the third score in that scenario maybe 4th behind Jake.
Quote from: mu03eng on March 10, 2014, 11:16:16 AM
I did read the entire thread, and while your position isn't a wrong one, it's also a matter of philosophy. You put the ball in Derrick's hands there because it forces the other team to guard him. Precisely why he shouldn't be on the floor If you inbound to Jamil or Deonte you are allowing the help off Derrick immediatelyprecisely why Derrick shouldn't be on the floor. Even if you had Dawson in the game, you are allowing help off of him to the primary. not if he is hiding in the corner away from the ball, like buzz did with Cadougan on the Vander play.You inbound to Derrick, because when you do initiate to the primary or secondary scorer there is much less time for the defense to react and collapse. So again we have to run our offense based on all of Derrick's deficiencies. Proves again why he shouldn't have been on the court. Also you start your offense early so you can have a shot at an offensive rebound or even a foul with a couple seconds left.
I also disagree about Jamil being the primary scorer. The two scorers I want taking the shot, with Mayo unavailable, are Davante or Deonte...Davante has to be the primary. Davante can only be an option after someone else beats their man off the dribble. Of coarse the opposition in any situation is going to try and deny Davante the ball. The other team plays to a scouting report tooAnd Davante isn't going to receive the inbound and dribble into the high post. If Davante goes high post and gets fed the ball there he has the option for his jump shot, a quick back down and shot, or a pass to Deonte in the low post who's man has helped off of him. Jamil only becomes the third score in that scenario maybe 4th behind Jake.The rest of this is irrelevant, Deonte or Jamil should have dominated the ball, attempted to beat their man off the dribble and make a play, either taking it to the rack or drawing a defender and kicking. Derrick should not have been on the floor. Buzz has shown in the past, Davidson game, that the PG doesn't need to touch the ball on the final play. He chose to go a different route this game, I believe it was a mistake. You are right it is a difference in philosophy. I believe in getting the ball in a playmakers hands immediately. I think I've beaten this horse enough. ;)
The play broke down and Jamil did the right thing finding the open man. Dwill reacted correctly going to the open spot. He had no choice but to take the shot with time expiring. Hope he finds his spot over the offseason as we he won't see much time next year if he can't score.
Quote from: BenCat12 on March 10, 2014, 11:28:48 AM
not if he is hiding in the corner away from the ball, like buzz did with Cadougan on the Vander play.
Yeah and who has Vander's ability to drive to the hoop without Mayo available? It certainly ain't Jamil, he sets for a contested 12 foot jumper every time.
Quote from: BenCat12 on March 10, 2014, 11:28:48 AM
Davante can only be an option after someone else beats their man off the dribble. Of coarse the opposition in any situation is going to try and deny Davante the ball. The other team plays to a scouting report too
Disagree with this, you can initiate without a drive
I don't think you're wrong with your approach, it could work(except I just don't think Jamil's the man for the job). I also don't think Buzz was wrong in his plan either. And while I agree you get it into the playmakers hands right away, that doesn't really work all that effectively if both are predominately post players (Again Jamil is just not a playmaker).
Quote from: mu03eng on March 10, 2014, 11:48:08 AM
Yeah and who has Vander's ability to drive to the hoop without Mayo available? It certainly ain't Jamil, he sets for a contested 12 foot jumper every time.
Disagree with this, you can initiate without a drive
I don't think you're wrong with your approach, it could work(except I just don't think Jamil's the man for the job). I also don't think Buzz was wrong in his plan either. And while I agree you get it into the playmakers hands right away, that doesn't really work all that effectively if both are predominately post players (Again Jamil is just not a playmaker).
Deonte is the best on the team at driving to the hoop IMO, sometimes to a fault. Jamil has his faults, but I would much rather have him dominate the ball over Derrick, he has the ability to penetrate or shoot, Derrick has neither.
This team absolutely cannot initiate offense without a drive. That is why the team is successful on offense when Deonte and Mayo are on the floor and why they are bad offensively without those two. Our set plays have been very poor this year, why exactly would one work without one of our best offensive players (Mayo fouled out), against one of the best defensive teams in the country? As for Davante, he was only going to be an option if someone beat their man off the dribble or if St. John's made a mistake in coverage. There was a brief moment when Davante was open at the elbow, but both double-teamed Jamil, and wide open Derrick, didn't see him. It is what it is, you aren't going to change my mind....I'm sure I won't change yours ;)
Quote from: BenCat12 on March 10, 2014, 12:08:31 PM
Deonte is the best on the team at driving to the hoop IMO, sometimes to a fault. Jamil has his faults, but I would much rather have him dominate the ball over Derrick, he has the ability to penetrate or shoot, Derrick has neither.
This team absolutely cannot initiate offense without a drive. That is why the team is successful on offense when Deonte and Mayo are on the floor and why they are bad offensively without those two. Our set plays have been very poor this year, why exactly would one work without one of our best offensive players (Mayo fouled out), against one of the best defensive teams in the country? As for Davante, he was only going to be an option if someone beat their man off the dribble or if St. John's made a mistake in coverage. There was a brief moment when Davante was open at the elbow, but both double-teamed Jamil, and wide open Derrick, didn't see him. It is what it is, you aren't going to change my mind....I'm sure I won't change yours ;)
Fair enough
Quote from: BenCat12 on March 09, 2014, 03:41:08 PM
The play in theory is fine, IF it works, the problem is it is too complicated and too easy to defend. Thus my saying that you can't have Derrick handle the ball if the play breaks down. It was a mistake by Buzz. As for your personnel question, Dawson or STjr would have been better, for different reasons. Dawson as a spot up shooter and STjr as an offensive rebounder. Under no circumstance should Derrick have been in the game. Just like he should not have been in the game against Providence on the inbound play for the reason you mention above. If the situation was reversed and St. Johns had the ball, then absolutely Derrick should have been in the game. I am not a derrick hater, he has value, but he should never be on the court in late game offensive situations.
+10,000
Quote from: elephantraker on March 10, 2014, 11:40:59 AM
The play broke down and Jamil did the right thing finding the open man. Dwill reacted correctly going to the open spot. He had no choice but to take the shot with time expiring. Hope he finds his spot over the offseason as we he won't see much time next year if he can't score.
THIS
Quote from: elephantraker on March 10, 2014, 11:40:59 AM
The play broke down and Jamil did the right thing finding the open man. Dwill reacted correctly going to the open spot. He had no choice but to take the shot with time expiring. Hope he finds his spot over the offseason as we he won't see much time next year if he can't score.
Absolutely right. The main gripe about that play should be that Buzz burned his final timeout, after St. John's took one and allowed him a chance to draw something up. When the play broke down early, it would have been nice to have a TO and 6 seconds to get another play set up.