So who screwed up on that final play?

[BenCat12]

You caught that huh?  Sorry, Ill resort to name calling and personal insults next time.  Seems to be more effective.

[BenCat12]

I'll jump in a little on this....the play broke down and Wilson had to improvise correct? yes That was not Wilson's fault correct?  YesThey then had to scramble around and out of it we got a clean 10foot look at the basket for a win, right? Yes Wilson has a lot of deficiencies and I don't want him taking that last look either.  However, if your whole point is that there is going to be a scramble and the original play is going to blow up I'd rather have Derrick in there who can improvise better and less likely to panic than a very cold John Dawsonno.  Neither is an ideal scenario but you leave Wilson in their because he's got more experience and a better facilitator.

If you read the entire thread, I've said several times you have to inbound the ball to your best playmaker, the guy who has the best shot of creating something for himself or others.  IMO that is Deonte or Jamil, guys that can beat someone off the dribble.  I'm not advocating Dawson being the primary ball handler or even being in the game.  I could make an argument for STjr, Otule or Dawson all being better options than Derrick in that situation.  The play was not Derricks fault, he should not have been put in that position as he does not have the skill set to make a play in that situation.  The play Buzz ran against Davidson with Vander would have been a better option IMO (Cadougan was in the game but hiding in the opposite corner, same could have been done with Dawson).  Inbound to Deonte or Jamil and have them penetrate a gap against a zone or use a screen against man.  It was a poor decision to inbound the ball to Derrick, that is my point.  

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You caught that huh?  Sorry, Ill resort to name calling and personal insults next time.  Seems to be more effective.

Mostly I just wanted to use that GIF. Been sitting on it for a few days. 

[BenCat12]

Mostly I just wanted to use that GIF. Been sitting on it for a few days. 

What else do you sit on?
I kid, I kid 

[mu03eng]

If you read the entire thread, I've said several times you have to inbound the ball to your best playmaker, the guy who has the best shot of creating something for himself or others.  IMO that is Deonte or Jamil, guys that can beat someone off the dribble.  I'm not advocating Dawson being the primary ball handler or even being in the game.  I could make an argument for STjr, Otule or Dawson all being better options than Derrick in that situation.  The play was not Derricks fault, he should not have been put in that position as he does not have the skill set to make a play in that situation.  The play Buzz ran against Davidson with Vander would have been a better option IMO (Cadougan was in the game but hiding in the opposite corner, same could have been done with Dawson).  Inbound to Deonte or Jamil and have them penetrate a gap against a zone or use a screen against man.  It was a poor decision to inbound the ball to Derrick, that is my point.  

I did read the entire thread, and while your position isn't a wrong one, it's also a matter of philosophy.  You put the ball in Derrick's hands there because it forces the other team to guard him.  If you inbound to Jamil or Deonte you are allowing the help off Derrick immediately.  Even if you had Dawson in the game, you are allowing help off of him to the primary.  You inbound to Derrick, because when you do initiate to the primary or secondary scorer there is much less time for the defense to react and collapse.

I also disagree about Jamil being the primary scorer.  The two scorers I want taking the shot, with Mayo unavailable, are Davante or Deonte...Davante has to be the primary.  And Davante isn't going to receive the inbound and dribble into the high post.  If Davante goes high post and gets fed the ball there he has the option for his jump shot, a quick back down and shot, or a pass to Deonte in the low post who's man has helped off of him.  Jamil only becomes the third score in that scenario maybe 4th behind Jake.

[BenCat12]

I did read the entire thread, and while your position isn't a wrong one, it's also a matter of philosophy.  You put the ball in Derrick's hands there because it forces the other team to guard him. Precisely why he shouldn't be on the floor If you inbound to Jamil or Deonte you are allowing the help off Derrick immediatelyprecisely why Derrick shouldn't be on the floor.  Even if you had Dawson in the game, you are allowing help off of him to the primary.  not if he is hiding in the corner away from the ball, like buzz did with Cadougan on the Vander play.You inbound to Derrick, because when you do initiate to the primary or secondary scorer there is much less time for the defense to react and collapse.  So again we have to run our offense based on all of Derrick's deficiencies.  Proves again why he shouldn't have been on the court.  Also you start your offense early so you can have a shot at an offensive rebound or even a foul with a couple seconds left.

I also disagree about Jamil being the primary scorer.  The two scorers I want taking the shot, with Mayo unavailable, are Davante or Deonte...Davante has to be the primary.  Davante can only be an option after someone else beats their man off the dribble.  Of coarse the opposition in any situation is going to try and deny Davante the ball.  The other team plays to a scouting report tooAnd Davante isn't going to receive the inbound and dribble into the high post.  If Davante goes high post and gets fed the ball there he has the option for his jump shot, a quick back down and shot, or a pass to Deonte in the low post who's man has helped off of him.  Jamil only becomes the third score in that scenario maybe 4th behind Jake.The rest of this is irrelevant, Deonte or Jamil should have dominated the ball, attempted to beat their man off the dribble and make a play, either taking it to the rack or drawing a defender and kicking.  Derrick should not have been on the floor.  Buzz has shown in the past, Davidson game, that the PG doesn't need to touch the ball on the final play.  He chose to go a different route this game, I believe it was a mistake.  You are right it is a difference in philosophy.  I believe in getting the ball in a playmakers hands immediately.  I think I've beaten this horse enough.

[WellsstreetWanderer]

The play broke down and Jamil did the right thing finding the open man. Dwill reacted correctly going to the open spot. He had no choice but to take the shot with time expiring. Hope he finds his spot over the offseason as we he won't see much time next year if he can't score.

[mu03eng]

not if he is hiding in the corner away from the ball, like buzz did with Cadougan on the Vander play.

Yeah and who has Vander's ability to drive to the hoop without Mayo available?  It certainly ain't Jamil, he sets for a contested 12 foot jumper every time.

Davante can only be an option after someone else beats their man off the dribble.  Of coarse the opposition in any situation is going to try and deny Davante the ball.  The other team plays to a scouting report too

Disagree with this, you can initiate without a drive

I don't think you're wrong with your approach, it could work(except I just don't think Jamil's the man for the job).  I also don't think Buzz was wrong in his plan either.  And while I agree you get it into the playmakers hands right away, that doesn't really work all that effectively if both are predominately post players (Again Jamil is just not a playmaker).

[BenCat12]

Yeah and who has Vander's ability to drive to the hoop without Mayo available?  It certainly ain't Jamil, he sets for a contested 12 foot jumper every time.

Disagree with this, you can initiate without a drive

I don't think you're wrong with your approach, it could work(except I just don't think Jamil's the man for the job).  I also don't think Buzz was wrong in his plan either.  And while I agree you get it into the playmakers hands right away, that doesn't really work all that effectively if both are predominately post players (Again Jamil is just not a playmaker).

Deonte is the best on the team at driving to the hoop IMO, sometimes to a fault.  Jamil has his faults, but I would much rather have him dominate the ball over Derrick, he has the ability to penetrate or shoot, Derrick has neither.

This team absolutely cannot initiate offense without a drive.  That is why the team is successful on offense when Deonte and Mayo are on the floor and why they are bad offensively without those two.  Our set plays have been very poor this year, why exactly would one work without one of our best offensive players (Mayo fouled out), against one of the best defensive teams in the country?  As for Davante, he was only going to be an option if someone beat their man off the dribble or if St. John's made a mistake in coverage.  There was a brief moment when Davante was open at the elbow, but both double-teamed Jamil, and wide open Derrick, didn't see him.  It is what it is, you aren't going to change my mind....I'm sure I won't change yours

[mu03eng]

Deonte is the best on the team at driving to the hoop IMO, sometimes to a fault.  Jamil has his faults, but I would much rather have him dominate the ball over Derrick, he has the ability to penetrate or shoot, Derrick has neither.

This team absolutely cannot initiate offense without a drive.  That is why the team is successful on offense when Deonte and Mayo are on the floor and why they are bad offensively without those two.  Our set plays have been very poor this year, why exactly would one work without one of our best offensive players (Mayo fouled out), against one of the best defensive teams in the country?  As for Davante, he was only going to be an option if someone beat their man off the dribble or if St. John's made a mistake in coverage.  There was a brief moment when Davante was open at the elbow, but both double-teamed Jamil, and wide open Derrick, didn't see him.  It is what it is, you aren't going to change my mind....I'm sure I won't change yours

Fair enough

[Fullodds]

The play in theory is fine, IF it works, the problem is it is too complicated and too easy to defend.  Thus my saying that you can't have Derrick handle the ball if the play breaks down.  It was a mistake by Buzz.  As for your personnel question, Dawson or STjr would have been better, for different reasons.  Dawson as a spot up shooter and STjr as an offensive rebounder.  Under no circumstance should Derrick have been in the game.  Just like he should not have been in the game against Providence on the inbound play for the reason you mention above.  If the situation was reversed and St. Johns had the ball, then absolutely Derrick should have been in the game.  I am not a derrick hater, he has value, but he should never be on the court in late game offensive situations.

+10,000

[ChicosBailBonds]

The play broke down and Jamil did the right thing finding the open man. Dwill reacted correctly going to the open spot. He had no choice but to take the shot with time expiring. Hope he finds his spot over the offseason as we he won't see much time next year if he can't score.

THIS

[MUfan12]

The play broke down and Jamil did the right thing finding the open man. Dwill reacted correctly going to the open spot. He had no choice but to take the shot with time expiring. Hope he finds his spot over the offseason as we he won't see much time next year if he can't score.

Absolutely right. The main gripe about that play should be that Buzz burned his final timeout, after St. John's took one and allowed him a chance to draw something up. When the play broke down early, it would have been nice to have a TO and 6 seconds to get another play set up.