MUScoop

Had dinner last night with a friend who's son plays on Northwestern - asked her what was behind Northwestern's turnaround...and she said they had a player (PG) get hurt against Michigan January 5, that Collins was starting, largely due to the kid being named a team captain and upperclassmen...since the kid has gone to the bench via injury, Northwestern has gone 5-2.  Meant more minutes for Tre Demps and JerShon Cobb.  Here's the injured kids stats - Dave Sobolewski

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/56226/dave-sobolewski

Looks like Sobolewski posted decent numbers too, at least I'd think we'd take those numbers at MU.  The good thing for Northwestern was Collins gave good chunks of minutes to the sophomore Tre Demps during the non conference portion of the schedule too, so he was more prepared for this bigger role...

Just found this interesting in that some are absolutely convinced that 1 player cannot make a huge difference on a basketball team - particularly when that player is a PG.

Here we go again

Quote from: Ners on February 04, 2014, 08:18:16 AM
Had dinner last night with a friend who's son plays on Northwestern - asked her what was behind Northwestern's turnaround...and she said they had a player (PG) get hurt against Michigan January 5, that Collins was starting, largely due to the kid being named a team captain and upperclassmen...since the kid has gone to the bench via injury, Northwestern has gone 5-2.  Meant more minutes for Tre Demps and JerShon Cobb.  Here's the injured kids stats - Dave Sobolewski

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/player/gamelog/_/id/56226/dave-sobolewski

Looks like Sobolewski posted decent numbers too, at least I'd think we'd take those numbers at MU.  The good thing for Northwestern was Collins gave good chunks of minutes to the sophomore Tre Demps during the non conference portion of the schedule too, so he was more prepared for this bigger role...

Just found this interesting in that some are absolutely convinced that 1 player cannot make a huge difference on a basketball team - particularly when that player is a PG.

Yeah, let's follow the blueprint of a program who has never, in the history of their program, made it to the NCAA Tournament!  Buzz should follow the lead of a 1st year coach because Buzz is having so much trouble getting into the NCAAs and winning there, while Northwestern is the definition of NCAA Tournament success!  That's the spirit!

What happened to your Derrick moratorium?

It's been a nice little run for Northwestern but they will never be a blueprint for Marquette.  Besides, what is the blueprint?  Injure Derrick Wilson?

Quote from: wadesworld on February 04, 2014, 08:23:22 AM
Yeah, let's follow the blueprint of a program who has never, in the history of their program, made it to the NCAA Tournament!  Buzz should follow the lead of a 1st year coach because Buzz is having so much trouble getting into the NCAAs and winning there, while Northwestern is the definition of NCAA Tournament success!  That's the spirit!

I understand you don't want to debate the fact presented and with good reason.  Yet, to your point, sadly, Northwestern has a better chance of making the NCAA this year than do we - and with a 1st year  coach too.  

What'd ya have for dinner and did any sparks fly?

Quote from: hairyworthen on February 04, 2014, 08:24:48 AM
What happened to your Derrick moratorium?

Just presenting a case study to the board for consideration...

Quote from: frozena pizza on February 04, 2014, 08:25:21 AM
It's been a nice little run for Northwestern but they will never be a blueprint for Marquette.  Besides, what is the blueprint?  Injure Derrick Wilson?

Of course the blueprint isn't to injure Derrick Wilson - but to rather highlight what can happen when a coach makes a switch to a different player - whether it be as a result of injury (Hello Tom Brady), goodbye Drew Bledsoe...or just as a result of wanting to make a change due to the existing player not getting results..

Sobolewski and Cobb are juniors and Demps is a RS Soph (i.e. he's in his third year at NU).

Demps averaged 19 minutes a game last season, including over 23 minutes during B10 play, which is the same as the number of minutes he was playing prior to Sobolewski's injury this season.

Cobb averaged 24 min as a frosh and 20.4 min last season. He was averaging 31.4 min prior to Sobolewski's injury.

In other words, neither player was a freshman thrown into the mix for the sake of getting him minutes.

Also, NU is 5-3 since Sobolewski went down and had two 26-point losses.

Pretty weak effort, even for you, Ners.

Ners-- did you happen to mention your concern for our starting PG sometime over the course of the dinner? Or did that never come up?

Quote from: 4everwarriors on February 04, 2014, 08:28:24 AM
What'd ya have for dinner and did any sparks fly?

Nice 4ever....sushi.....but no sparks....she's married to a friend of mine who couldn't attend.   ;)

Problem is, John Dawson isn't very good!! When Duane comes back next year he probably won't even see the floor, and you think he's the answer? Good Grief.

The idea of you and this cougar (?) talking NCAA "blueprints" and strategy and injuries to college kids and how it benefits the pleasure you take from watching kids play GAMES is not only laughable, it's disturbing. What an odd guy you are.

Quotet's gotten old...for everyone....me included...the constant back/forth, and pros/cons of Derrick/Dawson.  So, I'll promise to the Scoop community to not comment on Derrick from here on out till the season is over.

So this is your way of saying the season is over?   :D

This is an absolutely ridiculous comparison...

Tre Demps is a sophomore who was already getting 20+ minutes per game prior to the Michigan game.  He averaged 18+ minutes and 7+ ppg last year.

Jershown Cobb is a redshirt junior who was getting almost 30 mpg prior to the Michigan game.  

This isn't a "blueprint for Buzz to follow."  John Dawson is a freshman.  And not only that, but Derrick Wilson is playing *better* than Dawson is.

And why don't you just admit that you don't have the will power for this whole moratorium thing and drop the facade.  

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 04, 2014, 08:30:35 AM
Sobolewski and Cobb are juniors and Demps is a RS Soph (i.e. he's in his third year at NU).

Demps averaged 19 minutes a game last season, including over 23 minutes during B10 play, which is the same as the number of minutes he was playing prior to Sobolewski's injury this season.

Cobb averaged 24 min as a frosh and 20.4 min last season. He was averaging 31.4 min prior to Sobolewski's injury.

In other words, neither player was a freshman thrown into the mix for the sake of getting him minutes.

Also, NU is 5-3 since Sobolewski went down and had two 26-point losses.

Pretty weak effort, even for you, Ners.

My bad...she said he got hurt in Michigan game, yet they played him next game 14 minutes against Iowa...which is one of the 26 point losses you reference...but...those were her words when asked what was behind the turnaround - and she's no basketball idiot - husband was an NBA pro....who coaches in WNBA and does color commentary for Timberwolves...

Also, throwing Dawson into the game shouldn't be for the "sake of getting him minutes."  It should be for the obvious freaking reason - every other lineup tweak, change, modification has been made - and none of them work...other than of course against Georgetown.  Hmm.  Rocket science.

Quote from: Ners on February 04, 2014, 08:38:13 AM
Also, throwing Dawson into the game shouldn't be for the "sake of getting him minutes."  It should be for the obvious freaking reason - every other lineup tweak, change, modification has been made - and none of them work...other than of course against Georgetown.  Hmm.  Rocket science.

Email Buzz!!!  Tell him that since his has changed everything but the starting point guard, that "rocket science" dictates that this change should be made.  That he should follow Northwestern's lead on how to develop a successful basketball program.  I'm sure that will go over well.

Your arguments get more strange by the week.

Seriously...Northwestern???

Quote from: chapman on February 04, 2014, 08:36:22 AM
So this is your way of saying the season is over?   :D

Well played Chapman

Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on February 04, 2014, 08:37:54 AM
This is an absolutely ridiculous comparison...

Tre Demps is a sophomore who was already getting 20+ minutes per game prior to the Michigan game.  He averaged 18+ minutes and 7+ ppg last year.

Jershown Cobb is a redshirt junior who was getting almost 30 mpg prior to the Michigan game.  

This isn't a "blueprint for Buzz to follow."  John Dawson is a freshman.  And not only that, but Derrick Wilson is playing *better* than Dawson is.

And why don't you just admit that you don't have the will power for this whole moratorium thing and drop the facade.  

Guess the moratorium is challenging for me, yes, especially after the comments made at dinner.

Who cares if John Dawson is a freshman??  He's 3 times better at making 3 point shots in his career than Derrick.  He's 40% better at making free throws.  I'd freaking love it if Derrick Wilson could average 7ppg as a JUNIOR in 18 minutes of play, like Demps got.  Hell, I'd gladly take 7ppg in 30 minutes a game this year from Derrick.

Would love it if Dawson was given 18 minutes per game this year...think he's gotten more 18 minutes exactly twice in his MU career - Xavier and Georgetown - yet all you experts are prepared to say Derrick Wilson is better???  Cause Dawson can't show a lot in his typical 8-11 minutes of action most games?  Yet, you have a guy getting 30+ over and over and over...and still has made 1 3 point shot for the year, and shoots 46% from the FT line??  Please.

Congratulations on the four day moratorium!  That must have been difficult.

Quote from: Ners on February 04, 2014, 08:38:13 AM
My bad...she said he got hurt in Michigan game, yet they played him next game 14 minutes against Iowa...which is one of the 26 point losses you reference...but...those were her words when asked what was behind the turnaround - and she's no basketball idiot - husband was an NBA pro....who coaches in WNBA and does color commentary for Timberwolves...

None of that changes the fact that Demps and Cobb (who is actually in his fourth year at NU) were already playing significant minutes this season and had played significant minutes in the past as well.

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 04, 2014, 08:30:35 AM
Sobolewski and Cobb are juniors and Demps is a RS Soph (i.e. he's in his third year at NU).

Demps averaged 19 minutes a game last season, including over 23 minutes during B10 play, which is the same as the number of minutes he was playing prior to Sobolewski's injury this season.

Cobb averaged 24 min as a frosh and 20.4 min last season. He was averaging 31.4 min prior to Sobolewski's injury.

In other words, neither player was a freshman thrown into the mix for the sake of getting him minutes.

Also, NU is 5-3 since Sobolewski went down and had two 26-point losses.

Pretty weak effort, even for you, Ners.

(http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lgk9b8ntii1qd3s0ko1_500.png)

Quote from: Ners on February 04, 2014, 08:45:17 AM
Guess the moratorium is challenging for me, yes, especially after the comments made at dinner.

Who cares if John Dawson is a freshman??  He's 3 times better at making 3 point shots in his career than Derrick.  He's 40% better at making free throws.  I'd freaking love it if Derrick Wilson could average 7ppg as a JUNIOR in 18 minutes of play, like Demps got.  Hell, I'd gladly take 7ppg in 30 minutes a game this year from Derrick.

Would love it if Dawson was given 18 minutes per game this year...think he's gotten more 18 minutes exactly twice in his MU career - Xavier and Georgetown - yet all you experts are prepared to say Derrick Wilson is better???  Cause Dawson can't show a lot in his typical 8-11 minutes of action most games?  Yet, you have a guy getting 30+ over and over and over...and still has made 1 3 point shot for the year, and shoots 46% from the FT line??  Please.

What are you even talking about?

Derrick is shooting 10% higher from the floor. Does that not count because of Dawson's small sample size?

Quote from: hairyworthen on February 04, 2014, 08:24:48 AM
What happened to your Derrick moratorium?

That's twice he checked himself into rehab only to break out within days. Is there a doctor in the house?

Quote from: Ners on February 04, 2014, 08:45:17 AM
Guess the moratorium is challenging for me, yes, especially after the comments made at dinner.

Who cares if John Dawson is a freshman??  He's 3 times better at making 3 point shots in his career than Derrick.  He's 40% better at making free throws.  I'd freaking love it if Derrick Wilson could average 7ppg as a JUNIOR in 18 minutes of play, like Demps got.  Hell, I'd gladly take 7ppg in 30 minutes a game this year from Derrick.

Would love it if Dawson was given 18 minutes per game this year...think he's gotten more 18 minutes exactly twice in his MU career - Xavier and Georgetown - yet all you experts are prepared to say Derrick Wilson is better???  Cause Dawson can't show a lot in his typical 8-11 minutes of action most games?  Yet, you have a guy getting 30+ over and over and over...and still has made 1 3 point shot for the year, and shoots 46% from the FT line??  Please.

Keep cherry picking stats.  It's awesome!!

Again...tell Buzz!!  Obviously you know the keys to the season by sitting on your couch and watching a couple games a week.  I mean, he works with these guys hours a day, seven days a week.  

He's not stubborn.  He's made changes over the past couple of games.  Including one where Derrick was named SOTG (which you agreed with BTW), yet less than a week later you're not only beating the "Dawson should get 30+" horse to death, but you are running it over with a truck, burying it, digging it up again, shooting it a few times, and then flogging it a bit more.

Buzz is going to go with whomever has the hot hand in each game.    It's very obvious that he is more than willing to ride Dawson if he's that guy.  But of course when he doesn't, out comes the "Magic Dawson Excuse Machine."  Not enough run...played with nine guys in three minutes...Buzz is f*cking with his mind...

Unbelievable.  

Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 04, 2014, 08:52:02 AM
That's twice he checked himself into rehab only to break out within days. Is there a doctor in the house?

Phillip Seymour Hoffman:heroine::Ners:Derrick Wilson

The only difference is that Derrick Wilson overdose doesn't bring the sweet relief of death.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 04, 2014, 08:52:02 AM
That's twice he checked himself into rehab only to break out within days. Is there a doctor in the house?

Yep. Admitting you have a problem is a great first step, but its not the only step.



(http://blogs.clarionledger.com/jmitchell/files/2014/02/philip-seymour-hoffman.jpg)

Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on February 04, 2014, 08:53:37 AM



 

He's not stubborn.  He's made changes over the past couple of games.  Including one where Derrick was named SOTG (which you agreed with BTW), yet less than a week later you're not only beating the "Dawson should get 30+" horse to death, but you are running it over with a truck, burying it, digging it up again, shooting it a few times, and then flogging it a bit more.


 

If you are going to keep using the 'dead' thing, it has reached "Weekend at Bernie's" stage because he is putting sunglasses on it and taking it to dinner.  

Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2014, 08:57:12 AM
If you are going to keep using the 'dead' thing, it has reached "Weekend at Bernie's" stage because he is putting sunglasses on it and taking it to dinner.  

Given the moratorium, this would now be "Weekend at Bernie's 2".

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 04, 2014, 08:51:03 AM
What are you even talking about?

Ahh....the facts...what part don't you understand?

And thanks for helping to make the argument for why Dawson should be getting more minutes...

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 04, 2014, 08:49:35 AM
None of that changes the fact that Demps and Cobb (who is actually in his fourth year at NU) were already playing significant minutes this season and had played significant minutes in the past as well.

Lastly, yet since they benched Sobolewski....and gave more minutes to Demps and Cobbs...the team's gotten much better.  I'd suspect the same would be true for MU...up the minutes big time for Dawson and Mayo...and the team would be much better.  It's been a disaster this year otherwise....and it isn't because there's a lack of talent on the roster or "leadership."  

Here you go Ners

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twelve-step_program

You have passed step 1. You are struggling with step 2.

Quote from: Ners on February 04, 2014, 09:01:45 AM
Ahh....the facts...what part don't you understand?

And thanks for helping to make the argument for why Dawson should be getting more minutes...

Lastly, yet since they benched Sobolewski....and gave more minutes to Demps and Cobbs...the team's gotten much better.  I'd suspect the same would be true for MU...up the minutes big time for Dawson and Mayo...and the team would be much better.  It's been a disaster this year otherwise....and it isn't because there's a lack of talent on the roster or "leadership."  

First of all, they didn't bench Sobolewski. He got injured. Second, Demps and Cobbs are upperclassmen who had proven in previous seasons that they were more than capable of playing extended, productive minutes at this level. Not only that, but they were already playing extended, productive minutes this season.

Coaches try to win every single game on their schedule. They don't think things like, "I should get the untested freshmen significant minutes against big time opponents so that they're ready to fill in on the off chance that a starter gets hurt sometime in the next couple of seasons." They coach to win! Bill Carmody wasn't playing Cobb and Demps to get them experience in case they needed to fill in for Sobolewski at some point down the road. He was playing them because they gave him the best chance to win.


Sidenote: You stated in your original post that you'd take Sobolewski's numbers at MU. However, Derrick is averaging roughly the same number of points (5.5 vs. 5.9), 2 more rebounds/game, nearly 1 more assist/game, more steals, fewer TOs and shooting 16% higher from the floor. In other words, you'd rather have a less productive player than have Derrick Wilson who's production and stats you've crushed all season.

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 04, 2014, 09:15:49 AM
Sidenote: You stated in your original post that you'd take Sobolewski's numbers at MU. However, Derrick is averaging roughly the same number of points (5.5 vs. 5.9), 2 more rebounds/game, nearly 1 more assist/game, more steals, fewer TOs and shooting 16% higher from the floor. In other words, you'd rather have a less productive player than have Derrick Wilson who's production and stats you've crushed all season.

But the offense flows better with Sobolewski.

::)

"It's Derrick, It's Derrick"

Ners is gonna go all Tonya Harding on DWill.

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 04, 2014, 08:51:03 AM
What are you even talking about?

Derrick is shooting 10% higher from the floor on layups. Does that not count because of Dawson's small sample size?

Fixed it for you.  We know he's got no midrange game, no pull up jumper, no 3-ball...and in other words...no pressure on the defense...certainly Derrick can get to the basket in transition situations, albeit usually with epic fail.

Dawson at lest puts pressure on the defense, and needs to be defended everywhere on the court - that in and of itself helps your team.

But no worries, you along with the others can continue to bury your head in the sand and point toward "leadership,' and the team not getting loose balls, and "lacking heart," to explain how this team is significantly worse in all offensive measurables, than any other team of Buzz's.  Sadly, being a good leader in basketball doesn't mean you can make a 3 point shot.

There's a number of reasons why MU's offense has fallen off:

**The best guard MU had last year left for the draft and there hasn't been an adequate replacement
**The senior leadership has been spotty and inconsistent.
**There has not be a good replacement for Junior Cadougan at point.

See again, you are mixing the issues.  No one is saying Derrick Wilson is all-conference, or a good replacement for Junior Cadougan, or even better than average.  People are just saying that giving Dawson 30+ isn't the answer, but that if he does have the hot hand, that Buzz should ride him.

That's all.

Quote from: Ners on February 04, 2014, 09:53:34 AM
Fixed it for you.  We know he's got no midrange game, no pull up jumper, no 3-ball...and in other words...no pressure on the defense...certainly Derrick can get to the basket in transition situations, albeit usually with epic fail.

Dawson at lest puts pressure on the defense, and needs to be defended everywhere on the court - that in and of itself helps your team.

Jake Thomas also puts pressure on the defense, and needs to be defended everywhere on the court. Should he run the point? Besides, Dawson is shooting a paltry 28.6% from 3 and 31.4% from the field. He's not exactly Ray Allen.

Quote from: Ners on February 04, 2014, 09:53:34 AM
But no worries, you along with the others can continue to bury your head in the sand and point toward "leadership,' and the team not getting loose balls, and "lacking heart," to explain how this team is significantly worse in all offensive measurables, than any other team of Buzz's.  Sadly, being a good leader in basketball doesn't mean you can make a 3 point shot.

Show me one time when I said any of those things. Also, MU is averaging more points and assists than last season as well as fewer TOs while shooting roughly the same percentage from 3 (29.3% vs. 29.6%). Or were you talking about a different set of "all offensive measurables" that were "significantly worse?"

Interesting that you didn't comment on any of my other points in that post.

Quote from: Ners on February 04, 2014, 09:53:34 AM
Fixed it for you.  We know he's got no midrange game, no pull up jumper, no 3-ball...and in other words...no pressure on the defense...certainly Derrick can get to the basket in transition situations, albeit usually with epic fail.

Dawson at lest puts pressure on the defense, and needs to be defended everywhere on the court - that in and of itself helps your team.

But no worries, you along with the others can continue to bury your head in the sand and point toward "leadership,' and the team not getting loose balls, and "lacking heart," to explain how this team is significantly worse in all offensive measurables, than any other team of Buzz's.  Sadly, being a good leader in basketball doesn't mean you can make a 3 point shot.

I have no particular beef with you but really.  Talk about stubborn.

You continue to focus on Dawson's offensive potential, yet he has not shown it consistently.  Freshman earn playing time with defense.  

I think Dawson will be a productive player at MU.  He has shown flashes of it.  He's a FRESHMAN.  He needs some salt.

I know this effort is p*ssing in the wind.  I am declaring a moratorium responding to Ners calls far Dawson to play more til the end of the season.

Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on February 04, 2014, 10:01:56 AM
There's a number of reasons why MU's offense has fallen off:

**The best guard MU had last year left for the draft and there hasn't been an adequate replacement
**The senior leadership has been spotty and inconsistent.
**There has not be a good replacement for Junior Cadougan at point.

See again, you are mixing the issues.  No one is saying Derrick Wilson is all-conference, or a good replacement for Junior Cadougan, or even better than average.  People are just saying that giving Dawson 30+ isn't the answer, but that if he does have the hot hand, that Buzz should ride him.

That's all.

Here's the point you and others fail to realize.  Did Dawson necessarily have "the hot hand" against Georgetown??  Not really.  But, Buzz stuck with him for 30...and it absolutely paid off in overtime.  My beef is that just because Dawson comes in most games of late for 2-4 minute stretches of action...and if he misses his first 1 or 2 shots - it doesn't mean he doesn't have the hot hand for the game.  Few guys can come into games immediately and be hot within 2-3 minutes of getting in a game.  Maybe Vinnie Johnson and Ricky Pierce back in the day...but they are the exception.

Dawson has very good form on his jumper...is shooting 83% from FT line....usually guys who can shoot FT's can shoot from the field and 3 point line as well.

For the 1000th time....my beef is Buzz has only given John 1 game of "real" playing time and it worked out well.  Perhaps Derrick and Jake are "safer" players than John and Todd - but safe doesn't win you basketball games.  Think Burton typically has one of the best +/- on the team, even though some get frustrated with him shooting so much....he forces action.

Quote from: Ners on February 04, 2014, 10:24:02 AM
Here's the point you and others fail to realize.  Did Dawson necessarily have "the hot hand" against Georgetown??  Not really.  But, Buzz stuck with him for 30...and it absolutely paid off in overtime.  My beef is that just because Dawson comes in most games of late for 2-4 minute stretches of action...and if he misses his first 1 or 2 shots - it doesn't mean he doesn't have the hot hand for the game.  Few guys can come into games immediately and be hot within 2-3 minutes of getting in a game.  Maybe Vinnie Johnson and Ricky Pierce back in the day...but they are the exception.

Attention Merritts:  15 minutes, 59 seconds.

Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on February 04, 2014, 10:32:06 AM

Attention Merritts:  15 minutes, 59 seconds.

I win! Or did you win?...Or did we all lose?

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 04, 2014, 10:34:13 AM
I win! Or did you win?...Or did we all lose?

There are no winners on Scoop my friend.

Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on February 04, 2014, 08:54:45 AM
Phillip Seymour Hoffman:heroine::Ners:Derrick Wilson

Did Phillip once portray Rosa Parks or Jane Eyre or something?
I'm so confused...
;)

Quote from: barfolomew on February 04, 2014, 10:44:29 AM
Did Phillip once portray Rosa Parks or Jane Eyre or something?
I'm so confused...
;)

Joan of Arc

I think I have the answer...  EVERYONE just put NERS on IGNORE... No one will then reply to his repetitive posts.Then he will go away.. Then I won't have to read them either, when people box and quote him...  8-)  Just sayin'.....  

Quote from: guzica on February 04, 2014, 10:48:36 AM
I think I have the answer...  EVERYONE just put NERS on IGNORE... No one will then reply to his repetitive posts.Then he will go away.. Then I won't have to read them either, when people box and quote him...  8-)  Just sayin'.....  

Done!

But wait ... I thought St. Louis was supposed to be our blueprint!

Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on February 04, 2014, 10:01:56 AM
There's a number of reasons why MU's offense has fallen off:

**The best guard MU had last year left for the draft and there hasn't been an adequate replacement
**The senior leadership has been spotty and inconsistent.
**There has not be a good replacement for Junior Cadougan at point.

See again, you are mixing the issues.  No one is saying Derrick Wilson is all-conference, or a good replacement for Junior Cadougan, or even better than average.  People are just saying that giving Dawson 30+ isn't the answer, but that if he does have the hot hand, that Buzz should ride him.

That's all.

Really trying to understand this Sultan. I am not advocating playing Dawson over derrick--they both have strengths and weaknesses. But you keep saying that playing Dawson 30 minutes plus is not the answer. I believe that has only come close to happening once with Dawson, and we won the game. Were there any other games that he played that much that we got our ass kicked? You also keep saying Buzz will go with who has the hot hand. To my recollection, Derrick may have had a hot hand once or twice this year--and never from distance. So how does all this work out according to you? Should not the split be more like 25 minutes to 15, roughly? Think you would agree that Dawson is definitely a better perimeter player/shooter than Derrick. Seems like Dawson should warrant more minutes on a regular basis. Not being sarcastic--just trying to understand your thoughts on this.

I have said before that I think Derrick should start and play about 25 minutes and that Dawson should be his backup and play about 15.  And by "hot hand" I mean "better player." 

Against Georgetown and Xavier, that was clearly Dawson.  Against Providence, Butler and Nova, that was clearly Derrick. 

Just because we came back to win v. Georgetown with Dawson playing a lot doesn't mean Dawson playing a lot = a win.  Just like you can't come away from the Providence game saying "hey Derrick played a lot...and we won...therefore Derrick playing a lot equals a win."

River rat said it best in another thread.  Dawson will likely be better as a junior than Derrick is now.  But he's not a junior, and I just don't think he's better.

Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on February 04, 2014, 11:21:26 AM
I have said before that I think Derrick should start and play about 25 minutes and that Dawson should be his backup and play about 15.  And by "hot hand" I mean "better player." 

Against Georgetown and Xavier, that was clearly Dawson.  Against Providence, Butler and Nova, that was clearly Derrick. 

Just because we came back to win v. Georgetown with Dawson playing a lot doesn't mean Dawson playing a lot = a win.  Just like you can't come away from the Providence game saying "hey Derrick played a lot...and we won...therefore Derrick playing a lot equals a win."

River rat said it best in another thread.  Dawson will likely be better as a junior than Derrick is now.  But he's not a junior, and I just don't think he's better.

AMEN BROTHER!

Ners is a good guy, big fan and he knows some stuff about basketball. He also obsessed on this topic. He wants us to throw out 164 minutes of poor numbers (too small a sample, not a long enough "run", blah, blah, blah) and use 5 minutes of good play in OT vs Georgetown for future expectations. I'd rather look at all 169 minutes. Sadly they don't paint the prettiest of pictures. Projecting his numbers given Derrick's minutes, here are the totals:

                Derrick    John D
Points           120        126
Assists           86          63
Rebounds       87          63
TOs                34          37
Steals             23          8

John is a much better 3 point and free throw shooter but his overall FG% is 10 points lower than Derrick's. So, 6 more points, 23 fewer assists, 24 fewer rebounds, 3 more TOs and 15 fewer steals. Throw in much worse on ball defense. 12-10 sucks, but it could be worse.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 04, 2014, 11:39:14 AM
Ners is a good guy, big fan and he knows some stuff about basketball. He also obsessed on this topic. He wants us to throw out 164 minutes of poor numbers (too small a sample, not a long enough "run", blah, blah, blah) and use 5 minutes of good play in OT vs Georgetown for future expectations. I'd rather look at all 169 minutes. Sadly they don't paint the prettiest of pictures. Projecting his numbers given Derrick's minutes, here are the totals:

                Derrick    John D
Points           120        126
Assists           86          63
Rebounds       87          63
TOs                34          37
Steals             23          8

John is a much better 3 point and free throw shooter but his overall FG% is 10 points lower than Derrick's. So, 6 more points, 23 fewer assists, 24 fewer rebounds, 3 more TOs and 15 fewer steals. Throw in much worse on ball defense. 12-10 sucks, but it could be worse.

I think the point is the numbers on the left are for an established player with a lot of experience, Derrick is what he is by now.  He isn't going to get much better or worse.  But it is hard for me, or some others, to believe that if the amount of minutes were switched from the beginning of the season, that Dawson's wouldn't be near double what Derrick's are on a per minute basis.  Of coarse we will never know, but I think that's where the argument comes from.  The argument for me is limited ability and consistency vs. raw talent and potential.  It is just a difference in opinion.  Clearly this season Buzz believes limited ability and consistency is better than raw talent and potential. 

I seem to recall NERs screaming that Niv berkowitz should be playing the point over MArcus Jackson in 2005 too?
Seems every decade or so that we struggle at the point that he has all the answers.  Amybe MUBBAll can put him on retainer.
NErs did your dinner happen to be at Porcini's?

Quote from: Ners on February 04, 2014, 09:53:34 AM
But no worries, you along with the others can continue to bury your head in the sand and point toward "leadership,' and the team not getting loose balls, and "lacking heart," to explain how this team is significantly worse in all offensive measurables, than any other team of Buzz's.  Sadly, being a good leader in basketball doesn't mean you can make a 3 point shot.

I admire your ability to throw out a statistical claim, be shown to be absolutely completely wrong, yet ignore that and plow ahead with this same tired argument anyway.

You're not very good at this moratorium thingy.

Ners, I for one am ecstatic that your Derrick moratorium has ended. Keep fighting the good fight!!!

Quote from: TSmith34 on February 04, 2014, 12:18:35 PM
I admire your ability to throw out a statistical claim, be shown to be absolutely completely wrong, yet ignore that and plow ahead with this same tired argument anyway.

You're not very good at this moratorium thingy.

Thanks. I agree in not doing well on moratorium. I am baffled by you and the 5 other staunch Derrick defenders to somehow rationalize a guy who shoots 46% from the FT line and 8% from 3, and has made 2, 3 point shots through 22 games into his junior season all while "leading" the team to its worst season in 9 years to be a better option than a raw freshman who can shoot and when given the 1 chance to play meaningful minutes delivered on a big way!  Talk about plowing ahead with a dumb argument!!  It truly is mind numbing.  I'd have no problem with Derrick getting 30 minutes a game of the team were winning h at a respectable clip. Yet instead we are 5-10 against teams ranked above 198 in the country and our best win coming against Number 40 George Washington. All in a year we were predicted to win the Big East by the other coaches in the league!!

Northwestern should be Buzz's blueprint...


Seriously...one needs to step back and read that phrase over again.  And then read it again.  Its sooo stupid i dont know whether to laugh or cry.  In a year of odd, in a year of irrational, in a year of wacky and absurd things on this board this comment blows everything else out of the water.  

All previous stupid comments are like firecrackers to this hiroshima bomb of stupidity!!

Seriously, just read that....Northwestern should be Buzz's blueprint...
incomprehensible.

Quote from: Ners on February 04, 2014, 12:38:12 PM
I am baffled by you and the 5 other staunch Derrick defenders

Occasionally -- just occasionally-- it would be helpful if you looked up a fact before throwing them out there as holy gospel.  If you can find a post of mine that would remotely qualify me as a "staunch Derrick defender" I'll send you a cookie.

Quote from: TSmith34 on February 04, 2014, 12:45:59 PM
Occasionally -- just occasionally-- it would be helpful if you looked up a fact before throwing them out there as holy gospel.  If you can find a post of mine that would remotely qualify me as a "staunch Derrick defender" I'll send you a cookie.

Staunch Derrick Defender: noun, any open-minded MUScoop poster who doesn't relentlessly rip Derrick Wilson to shreds, doesn't share the opinion that Dawson should play 30 minutes a night because "it can't get any worse," and refuses to ignore all John Dawson performances that took place outside of the Verizon Center.

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 04, 2014, 12:52:03 PM
Staunch Derrick Defender: noun, any open-minded MUScoop poster who doesn't relentlessly rip Derrick Wilson to shreds, doesn't share the opinion that Dawson should play 30 minutes a night because "it can't get any worse," and refuses to ignore all John Dawson performances that took place outside of the Verizon Center.

See also; Slurper

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 04, 2014, 12:52:03 PM
Staunch Derrick Defender: noun, any open-minded MUScoop poster who doesn't relentlessly rip Derrick Wilson to shreds, doesn't share the opinion that Dawson should play 30 minutes a night because "it can't get any worse," and refuses to ignore all John Dawson performances that took place outside of the Verizon Center.

Guilty as charged.

Quote from: BenCat12 on February 04, 2014, 11:46:52 AM
I think the point is the numbers on the left are for an established player with a lot of experience, Derrick is what he is by now.  He isn't going to get much better or worse.  But it is hard for me, or some others, to believe that if the amount of minutes were switched from the beginning of the season, that Dawson's wouldn't be near double what Derrick's are on a per minute basis.  Of coarse we will never know, but I think that's where the argument comes from.  The argument for me is limited ability and consistency vs. raw talent and potential.  It is just a difference in opinion.  Clearly this season Buzz believes limited ability and consistency is better than raw talent and potential. 

However; there is no basis in fact that this is true.  You hope it to be true but when presented with fact we need to ignore it because:

• Buzz doesn't know what he is doing and only out of loyalty to Wilson and his hatred of Dawson does he not see that Dawson is a stud.  He doesn't take the daily practices into account because even a rec league player, in 2-3 minutes of spot play, can see Dawson would get double the output.
• Anything that shows that Dawson might not be ready should instantly be ignored due to small sample size.  At providence, Dawson was in the game for an 11-0 run in 3:30 seconds.  That sample size is too small to judge and Buzz stacked the deck against him because he rotated in 9 other players.
• It doesn't matter the games we lost were against Top 50 schools (most of which were close).  Had Dawson played more we would have won them because against Georgetown we won

Quote from: BallBoy on February 04, 2014, 01:35:37 PM
However; there is no basis in fact that this is true.  You hope it to be true but when presented with fact we need to ignore it because:

• Buzz doesn't know what he is doing and only out of loyalty to Wilson and his hatred of Dawson does he not see that Dawson is a stud.  He doesn't take the daily practices into account because even a rec league player, in 2-3 minutes of spot play, can see Dawson would get double the output.
• Anything that shows that Dawson might not be ready should instantly be ignored due to small sample size.  At providence, Dawson was in the game for an 11-0 run in 3:30 seconds.  That sample size is too small to judge and Buzz stacked the deck against him because he rotated in 9 other players.
• It doesn't matter the games we lost were against Top 50 schools (most of which were close).  Had Dawson played more we would have won them because against Georgetown we won

Yeah...that pretty much sums it up.

Quote from: BenCat12 on February 04, 2014, 11:46:52 AM
I think the point is the numbers on the left are for an established player with a lot of experience, Derrick is what he is by now.  He isn't going to get much better or worse.  But it is hard for me, or some others, to believe that if the amount of minutes were switched from the beginning of the season, that Dawson's wouldn't be near double what Derrick's are on a per minute basis.  Of coarse we will never know, but I think that's where the argument comes from.  The argument for me is limited ability and consistency vs. raw talent and potential.  It is just a difference in opinion.  Clearly this season Buzz believes limited ability and consistency is better than raw talent and potential. 

Give Jamail Jones, Erik Williams, etc., more minutes and they'll be much better than what the numbers say. They'll be different from the guy we see twice a week and Buzz sees every day. To me, that's hope over data/past experience. If we're giving up on this year and place getting the freshmen experience over winning, fine. Play them all 30+ minutes and finish under .500. I'd rather give them each 15 -20 minutes and still win some games this year.

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 04, 2014, 12:52:03 PM
Staunch Derrick Defender: noun, any open-minded MUScoop poster who doesn't relentlessly rip Derrick Wilson to shreds, doesn't share the opinion that Dawson should play 30 minutes a night because "it can't get any worse," and refuses to ignore all John Dawson performances that took place outside of the Verizon Center.

Synonyms:realist, empiricist. Antonym:dreamer

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 04, 2014, 12:52:03 PM
Staunch Derrick Defender: noun, any open-minded MUScoop poster who doesn't relentlessly rip Derrick Wilson to shreds, doesn't share the opinion that Dawson should play 30 minutes a night because "it can't get any worse," and refuses to ignore all John Dawson performances that took place outside of the Verizon Center.

<------- Raises hand

Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 04, 2014, 01:42:57 PM
Give Jamail Jones, Erik Williams, etc., more minutes and they'll be much better than what the numbers say. They'll be different from the guy we see twice a week and Buzz sees every day. To me, that's hope over data/past experience. If we're giving up on this year and place getting the freshmen experience over winning, fine. Play them all 30+ minutes and finish under .500. I'd rather give them each 15 -20 minutes and still win some games this year.

What difference does it make giving up on this yr? We aren't going to the tournament anyways. Cut our losses now and give more playing time to our young guys. I think they could surprise some people. We should be building for next year at this point. Oh and Jamil has been nonexistent half the time this yr anyway, so he wouldn't be missed.

Quote from: mubuzz on February 04, 2014, 01:57:24 PM
What difference does it make giving up on this yr? We aren't going to the tournament anyways. Cut our losses now and give more playing time to our young guys. I think they could surprise some people. We should be building for next year at this point. Oh and Jamil has been nonexistent half the time this yr anyway, so he wouldn't be missed.

I would hate that.

This isn't professional sports.

I don't want Buzz dumping/benching Jamil/Gardner for the rest of the year just so he can look at the frosh. Jamil and Gardner have busted their asses for 4 years. They deserve some loyalty.

Quote from: mubuzz on February 04, 2014, 01:57:24 PM
What difference does it make giving up on this yr? We aren't going to the tournament anyways. Cut our losses now and give more playing time to our young guys. I think they could surprise some people. We should be building for next year at this point. Oh and Jamil has been nonexistent half the time this yr anyway, so he wouldn't be missed.

Because you play to win games now.  And there is no guaranty that giving playing time to young guys is going to result in any favorable results next year.

Oh and Derrick Wilson is going to be around and will likely start next year.  So if you are "building for next year," that would include him right?

Quote from: mu03eng on February 04, 2014, 12:56:55 PM
See also; Slurper

No, I started the slurper, so I get to define it: Anybody (other than Buzz's immediate family) who continues to rain down hosannas and praise offering up excuses for Buzz for this year's performance. Also anybody that gives Buzz an A+ for his 5 year performance as Coach at MU is by default a slurper.

I don't know about Ners and the rest in our cult, but I for one was advocating that Dawson should be getting huge minutes *before* the Georgetown game.  I said that we should be playing Dawson more ONLY IF he is a true DI player (ie we didn't make a mistake recruiting him).  IMO, all the Georgetown game did was confirm that he does in fact have DI potential, it does *not* mean that he is Magic Johnson Jr.

RiverRat said that as a junior Dawson will be better than DWil.  I agree.  And thus, let's get that ceiling reached as soon as possible.  It's not like Dawson's mind/body is going to magically switch to beast mode simply because final grades have been released.  He needs to log minutes, not age.

Dawson, like all freshmen, will get better with minutes.  Minutes, minutes, minutes.  Age is merely a proxy for minutes.  The more minutes he logs the faster that potential gets realized.

Quote from: mubuzz on February 04, 2014, 01:57:24 PM
What difference does it make giving up on this yr? We aren't going to the tournament anyways. Cut our losses now and give more playing time to our young guys. I think they could surprise some people. We should be building for next year at this point. Oh and Jamil has been nonexistent half the time this yr anyway, so he wouldn't be missed.

No man, no.  Freshmen minutes now primes them for next year is merely a plus-factor, IMO.  The main reason to play them more now (esp Dawson) is so that we have a chance at winning the BE tournament.

Quote from: mubuzz on February 04, 2014, 01:57:24 PM
What difference does it make giving up on this yr? We aren't going to the tournament anyways. Cut our losses now and give more playing time to our young guys. I think they could surprise some people. We should be building for next year at this point. Oh and Jamil has been nonexistent half the time this yr anyway, so he wouldn't be missed.

Didn't Buzz do this somewhat against St John's?  JJJ had the 2nd most minutes of any player.  Deonte played until he fouled out.   Dawson played only 11 minutes, but had a very poor stat line, IMHO tied for worst on the team and very comparable to the poor stat lines of Jamil and Todd Mayo.

The freshman played, we lost, why aren't the youth advocates happy?

Quote from: Archies Bat on February 04, 2014, 02:10:24 PM
Didn't Buzz do this somewhat against St John's?  JJJ had the 2nd most minutes of any player.  Deonte played until he fouled out.   Dawson played only 11 minutes, but had a very poor stat line, IMHO tied for worst on the team and very comparable to the poor stat lines of Jamil and Todd Mayo.

The freshman played, we lost, why aren't the youth advocates happy?

And they *should* have played.  They were the better, more aggressive players on the floor.  But that doesn't mean they will be tonight....

Basketball isn't that linear.

Quote from: Archies Bat on February 04, 2014, 02:10:24 PM
Didn't Buzz do this somewhat against St John's?  JJJ had the 2nd most minutes of any player.  Deonte played until he fouled out.   Dawson played only 11 minutes, but had a very poor stat line, IMHO tied for worst on the team and very comparable to the poor stat lines of Jamil and Todd Mayo.

The freshman played, we lost, why aren't the youth advocates happy?

You just don't get it. The frosh need to play minutes now so that they're good enough to win the BET in a month. They simply haven't logged the appropriate number of minutes for them to be good yet. If Buzz had been playing the frosh all along, the team would only have about 6-8 wins, but would be looking like the Globetrotters against the Generals about now. It all about minutes, baby!

Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on February 04, 2014, 02:02:42 PM

Because you play to win games now.  And there is no guaranty that giving playing time to young guys is going to result in any favorable results next year.

Oh and Derrick Wilson is going to be around and will likely start next year.  So if you are "building for next year," that would include him right?

Of course there is no guarantee. It couldn't possibly hurt to get them more experience though. I disagree about Wilson starting next year...I see him as the 3rd pg hopefully. The building for next year would exclude him, the playing time should be for players that have a lot of upside and untapped potential.

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 04, 2014, 02:00:17 PM
I would hate that.

This isn't professional sports.

I don't want Buzz dumping/benching Jamil/Gardner for the rest of the year just so he can look at the frosh. Jamil and Gardner have busted their asses for 4 years. They deserve some loyalty.

Have they really busted their asses for 4 years? They are probably the 2 most called out players on this team for being lazy and not showing up. I personally don't know if they have or haven't.

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 04, 2014, 02:15:48 PM
You just don't get it. The frosh need to play minutes now so that they're good enough to win the BET in a month. They simply haven't logged the appropriate number of minutes for them to be good yet. If Buzz had been playing the frosh all along, the team would only have about 6-8 wins, but would be looking like the Globetrotters against the Generals about now. It all about minutes, baby!

Sorry, does this make me a slurper, defender, or something else?  I've lost track.

Quote from: Archies Bat on February 04, 2014, 02:29:15 PM
Sorry, does this make me a slurper, defender, or something else?  I've lost track.

All of the above...along with a "kool-aid drinker."

Quote from: mubuzz on February 04, 2014, 02:24:22 PM
Of course there is no guarantee. It couldn't possibly hurt to get them more experience though. I disagree about Wilson starting next year...I see him as the 3rd pg hopefully. The building for next year would exclude him, the playing time should be for players that have a lot of upside and untapped potential.

What on God's green earth leads you to believe that Derrick will be the 3rd PG next year...outside of blind hope on your end?  Name one player under Buzz who has seen their minutes *significantly* decrease over the course of their MU tenure not due to injury or suspension?

You better get used to him, because while he may not play the 29 mpg he is playing now, he will be playing a lot.  

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on February 04, 2014, 02:00:17 PM
I would hate that.

This isn't professional sports.

I don't want Buzz dumping/benching Jamil/Gardner for the rest of the year just so he can look at the frosh. Jamil and Gardner have busted their asses for 4 years. They deserve some loyalty.

As Sultan once said, if Buzz is playing guys out of loyalty, then he should be fired.

Quote from: ElDonBDon on February 04, 2014, 02:36:20 PM
As Sultan once said, if Buzz is playing guys out of loyalty, then he should be fired.

I appreciate it, but that wasn't me...I don't think.

Quote from: ElDonBDon on February 04, 2014, 02:36:20 PM
As Sultan once said, if Buzz is playing guys out of loyalty, then he should be fired.

Actually, I said that several times... and I believe it.

However, right now, the frosh. aren't better than the upperclassman. Therefore, I think it would be extremely disloyal and poor form to dump the seniors and start playing the frosh. the bulk of the minutes because MU is suddenly "rebuilding".

Now, if Burton is better than Jamil, go ahead, play Burton.

Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on February 04, 2014, 02:34:06 PM

What on God's green earth leads you to believe that Derrick will be the 3rd PG next year...outside of blind hope on your end?  Name one player under Buzz who has seen their minutes *significantly* decrease over the course of their MU tenure not due to injury or suspension?

You better get used to him, because while he may not play the 29 mpg he is playing now, he will be playing a lot.  

Admittedly, it is blind hope on my part. I guess I hope that Dawson and Duane play up to their vast potential and don't give Buzz any other choice but to sit Derrick. Stranger things have happened. And if he is playing a lot next year, we will be having the same type of season and Buzz seat will be starting to warm up a little bit.

Quote from: mubuzz on February 04, 2014, 02:43:03 PM
Admittedly, it is blind hope on my part. I guess I hope that Dawson and Duane play up to their vast potential and don't give Buzz any other choice but to sit Derrick. Stranger things have happened. And if he is playing a lot next year, we will be having the same type of season and Buzz seat will be starting to warm up a little bit.

LOL...no.  Not even close.

Quote from: willie warrior on February 04, 2014, 02:03:41 PM
No, I started the slurper, so I get to define it: Anybody (other than Buzz's immediate family) who continues to rain down hosannas and praise offering up excuses for Buzz for this year's performance. Also anybody that gives Buzz an A+ for his 5 year performance as Coach at MU is by default a slurper.

Are explanations and excuses the same thing? Are you the sole arbiter?

Buzz's seat warm next year?    You have truly jumped the shark.   Next year's team is going to be incredibly young, so the expectations will be lower.   Crean's last 5 years at MU included 2 NIT bids and one NCAA tourney win and his seat here wasn't even tepid.   Unless there is some huge scandal, Buzz's seat at MU will be just fine for the next few years.  

Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on February 04, 2014, 02:47:32 PM

LOL...no.  Not even close.

I didn't say he would get fired, I just said his seat would start to warm up. I think for the kind of money he's making, 3 years in a row of seasons like this he might be shown the door. Next year with Wilson playing a lot would be the 2nd. Now I don't expect that to happen...I was just using that scenario as context to my opinion.

Quote from: mubuzz on February 04, 2014, 02:52:05 PM
I didn't say he would get fired, I just said his seat would start to warm up. I think for the kind of money he's making, 3 years in a row of seasons like this he might be shown the door. Next year with Wilson playing a lot would be the 2nd. Now I don't expect that to happen...I was just using that scenario as context to my opinion.

If next year is like this year, Buzz's seat won't even come close to coming warm. 

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 04, 2014, 02:31:19 PM
All of the above...along with a "kool-aid drinker."

And I actually agree that the freshman should get more playing time overall as the season progresses, conditions permitting.  It's just some of the folks that agree with more freshman play (not necessarily MUBuzz, who I replied to and I've found also listens when posting) need to say it loud, say it often, ignore counterpoints, and ignore stats when it pleases them.

Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on February 04, 2014, 02:34:06 PM

What on God's green earth leads you to believe that Derrick will be the 3rd PG next year...outside of blind hope on your end?  Name one player under Buzz who has seen their minutes *significantly* decrease over the course of their MU tenure not due to injury or suspension?

You better get used to him, because while he may not play the 29 mpg he is playing now, he will be playing a lot.  

If Derrick gets 25+ minutes per game next year, I'll guarantee you right now we won't make the NCAA tourney next year.  Without Gardner in the post, and all the attention he gets, and a PG who simply cannot shoot - life will be hell for JJJ, Mayo, Hill, Burton, Steve Taylor, et al.

Sultan - Do you think you could find one other junior (hell forget junior) just any PG in all of D-1 Hoops who gets 29 minutes per game and has made 1, 3 point shot for the year on 8% shooting?  That shoots 46% from the FT line?  

I mean, those numbers are almost impossible to post.  I know you say you understand Derrick's limitations - but man - to think he's better than Dawson - Dawson must be really, really bad...

Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on February 04, 2014, 02:56:13 PM

If next year is like this year, Buzz's seat won't even come close to coming warm. 

I disagree, I think you are underestimating the split that has occurred with the fans this year. Everyone loved Buzz when we were winning...now that we are having a down year, I think his persona has become very polarizing and back to back seasons of this will only make it worse. And after next year i said start to get warm. This is why message boards are fun, everyone has their own opinion and it's fun to talk about this stuff. Oh and for the record I love Buzz and hope he's here a long time...was just bringing up a hypothetical.

What the dimwitted denizens whine about on this board does not represent a split of opinion by ANYONE WHO ACTUALLY MATTERS in regards to Buzz's future employment by MU.   The only people in the MU hierarchy who were even rumored to not like Buzz are gone.   The BoT chose Buzz.     There is frustration, but there is no 'split'.

Quote from: tower912 on February 04, 2014, 03:18:22 PM
What the dimwitted denizens whine about on this board does not represent a split of opinion by ANYONE WHO ACTUALLY MATTERS in regards to Buzz's future employment by MU.   The only people in the MU hierarchy who were even rumored to not like Buzz are gone.   The BoT chose Buzz.     There is frustration, but there is no 'split'.

Here is a hypothetical, (if we are still allowed to post these here) what if they play poorly the rest of the season and the booing continues?  Will Buzz still play the, "as long as they want me card?"  He has proven to be pretty thin skinned about those things, curious as to what the message board police think.....Will the booing continue and if so will Buzz be able to handle it?  Will a select few students and message board maniacs be enough to make Buzz want to leave?  Just curious, fire away "experts."

Quote from: BenCat12 on February 04, 2014, 03:28:08 PM
Here is a hypothetical, (if we are still allowed to post these here) what if they play poorly the rest of the season and the booing continues?  Will Buzz still play the, "as long as they want me card?"  He has proven to be pretty thin skinned about those things, curious as to what the message board police think.....Will the booing continue and if so will Buzz be able to handle it?  Will a select few students and message board maniacs be enough to make Buzz want to leave?  Just curious, fire away "experts."

I'm not sure how Buzz "has proven to be pretty thin skinned" in regards to booing. Because he mentioned it in a postgame interview? Anything else?

I highly doubt that the select few will be enough, or even anywhere close to enough, for Buzz to have some sort of angry, public outburst or be pushed to the point of considering resigning.

Anybody with a mind....

Please save me some time and a ton of anxiety...

I read the first post. I have also watched a few Northwestern games this year.  I am hoping someone pointed out that the players who stepped in were already experienced and logging a lot of time when this young man went down. I hope they also asked how this type of thing can be used for a blueprint.

If you tell me that they did, I will be able to skip over the rest, which likely continues with the themes which I promised not to read or respond to regarding why Buzz does not know anything anymore and that player x should get more time and player z sucks.

Thank you.

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 04, 2014, 03:39:08 PM
It's somewhat of a fair question, although I'm not sure how Buzz "has proven to be pretty thin skinned" in regards to booing. Because he mentioned it in a postgame interview? Anything else?

As mentioned in another thread, he complained about booing back in 2011.  He has proven to be testy on other occasions as well, the McIlvaine incident comes to mind.  

I just have a feeling that if the losing with Derrick and Jake continues, the booing is going to become overwhelming..

Quote from: Rudy on February 04, 2014, 03:40:27 PM
Anybody with a mind....

Please save me some time and a ton of anxiety...

I read the first post. I have also watched a few Northwestern games this year.  I am hoping someone pointed out that the players who stepped in were already experienced and logging a lot of time when this young man went down. I hope they also asked how this type of thing can be used for a blueprint.

If you tell me that they did, I will be able to skip over the rest, which likely continues with the themes which I promised not to read or respond to regarding why Buzz does not know anything anymore and that player x should get more time and player z sucks.

Thank you.

Fear not...
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=41832.msg564043#msg564043 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=41832.msg564043#msg564043)

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 04, 2014, 03:42:07 PM
Fear not...
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=41832.msg564043#msg564043 (http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=41832.msg564043#msg564043)

Thank you Merritt!

Quote from: BallBoy on February 04, 2014, 01:35:37 PM
However; there is no basis in fact that this is true.  You hope it to be true but when presented with fact we need to ignore it because:

• Buzz doesn't know what he is doing and only out of loyalty to Wilson and his hatred of Dawson does he not see that Dawson is a stud.  He doesn't take the daily practices into account because even a rec league player, in 2-3 minutes of spot play, can see Dawson would get double the output.
• Anything that shows that Dawson might not be ready should instantly be ignored due to small sample size.  At providence, Dawson was in the game for an 11-0 run in 3:30 seconds.  That sample size is too small to judge and Buzz stacked the deck against him because he rotated in 9 other players.
• It doesn't matter the games we lost were against Top 50 schools (most of which were close).  Had Dawson played more we would have won them because against Georgetown we won

Where did I say any of that?  I am not Ners.  Of coarse nobody knows what would have happened, it is called a hypothetical.  But my opinion is that if three freshmen were given more minutes earlier in the year, they would be better today.  Not sure how that is debatable?  Unless of coarse you believe playing in games doesn't make you better. 
Please hang up and try your call again.

Quote from: BenCat12 on February 04, 2014, 03:28:08 PM
Here is a hypothetical, (if we are still allowed to post these here) what if they play poorly the rest of the season and the booing continues?  Will Buzz still play the, "as long as they want me card?"  He has proven to be pretty thin skinned about those things, curious as to what the message board police think.....Will the booing continue and if so will Buzz be able to handle it?  Will a select few students and message board maniacs be enough to make Buzz want to leave?  Just curious, fire away "experts."

No. 

Quote from: BenCat12 on February 04, 2014, 04:00:54 PM
Where did I say any of that?  I am not Ners.  Of coarse nobody knows what would have happened, it is called a hypothetical.  But my opinion is that if three freshmen were given more minutes earlier in the year, they would be better today.  Not sure how that is debatable?  Unless of coarse you believe playing in games doesn't make you better. 
Please hang up and try your call again.

Sure games make you "better" but not nearly as much as practice.  So since they participated in, I assume every practice, wouldn't they also be better today?  Understand the offense and defense better?  Understand how to communicate better? Is there any inclination that they aren't better then when we played Grambling State or just that they aren't good enough yet to start?  Or are there better players right now?  

Looking back if I knew that I am going to lose 10 games, why didn't I play them more.  Because at the time, I didn't know that and Buzz's opinion was he was playing those people who would win the game for him.  And he also needs to those players better too.  How about I don't play Gardner so Otule and Steve Taylor could get better?  How about I don't play Mayo a single minute so JJJ could get better?  Let's not even talk about playing Jamil because I need to get Deonte better.    


 

In my skimming I saw someone said that Derrick might be the 3rd string PG. I honestly think that is one thing that will NOT happen. Not because Derrick is better than Duane and John Dawesome, but because he would transfer if that was the case. Do you really think Buzz would let a hard working, high character, and not to mention one of his favorite players spend his entire senior season warming the bench? If Derrick is passed by both the youngings on the depth chart, Buzz would encourage him to transfer somewhere else where he could play.

Now saying that one Derrick will return to his role of backup PG is much more likely.

Quote from: Ners on February 04, 2014, 03:01:46 PM
If Derrick gets 25+ minutes per game next year, I'll guarantee you right now we won't make the NCAA tourney next year.  

So if this does actually happen, will you take a year long vacation from the board?  (Which means you'd be back in about 48 hours....)

Quote from: Ners on February 04, 2014, 03:01:46 PM
Sultan - Do you think you could find one other junior (hell forget junior) just any PG in all of D-1 Hoops who gets 29 minutes per game and has made 1, 3 point shot for the year on 8% shooting?  That shoots 46% from the FT line?  

I mean, those numbers are almost impossible to post.  I know you say you understand Derrick's limitations - but man - to think he's better than Dawson - Dawson must be really, really bad...

I cannot believe you are still cherry-picking stats and acting as if those two stats validate your point of view.

Quote from: BallBoy on February 04, 2014, 04:25:31 PM
Sure games make you "better" but not nearly as much as practice.  So since they participated in, I assume every practice, wouldn't they also be better today? Yes you get more skilled in practice than you do in games, but you gain more confidence from gametime Understand the offense and defense better?  Understand how to communicate better? Is there any inclination that they aren't better then when we played Grambling State or just that they aren't good enough yet to start?  Or are there better players right now? They are all better today than they were when we played Grambling State, I am not sure what the point of that is.  

Looking back if I knew that I am going to lose 10 games, why didn't I play them more.  Because at the time, I didn't know that and Buzz's opinion was he was playing those people who would win the game for him.  And he also needs to those players better too.  How about I don't play Gardner so Otule and Steve Taylor could get better? How about I don't play Mayo a single minute so JJJ could get better?  Let's not even talk about playing Jamil because I need to get Deonte better. This part is just incoherent babble so I won't respond to it.    


 

MU4Life posted this in another thread, but I am going to quote it here as well.

http://onmilwaukee.com/sports/articles/marquetteoffense.html

"Some of our best offensive players are our worst defensive players; and some of our best defensive players are our worst offensive players," head coach Buzz Williams said against Providence. "So, running them in waves the way we did in the first half (against Providence) was kind of a balance of all of it. Not, who started, not how old they are, not where they're from, not what they did the last game or the game before, but what gives us our best chance today, from start to finish, to win."

Exactly what I have been saying...

Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on February 04, 2014, 04:34:02 PM
So if this does actually happen, will you take a year long vacation from the board?  (Which means you'd be back in about 48 hours....)



I cannot believe you are still cherry-picking stats and acting as if those two stats validate your point of view.

Cherry picking stats??  What stats do you want to champion to support Derrick getting the most minutes of any player on the team??!  Please, by all means cherry pick whichever stats of his you want. 

But yes, the fact the team is 12-10, 5-10 against teams ranked 198 and higher, best win against Team Ranked 40th, and our max minute getter being our worst rated offensive player - I feel all of those validate that he isn't getting the job done in any way, shape or form.

Still waiting for you to respond to my question earlier:  Did Dawson "have the hot hand" in the Georgetown game throughout?  Lenny has said as much, that Dawson was marginal in regulation, but then great in OT.  Getting lots of playing time starts to normalize results and impact - Derrick has had PLENTY of time to show what he's capable of...and unfortunately - he hasn't shown much.  I truly wish that wasn't the case - wish he was leading the team to wins, being a threat from all ares on the floor, creating great looks for teammates in the halfcourt - those things just aren't happening.

What do you think Derrick's numbers would look like if he were averaging 10 minutes per game....and those minutes came in 3 different stints of playing time...and while in one of those stints, he had the "pleasure" of playing with 9 different guys?!

Quote from: Ners on February 04, 2014, 05:00:55 PM
Cherry picking stats??  What stats do you want to champion to support Derrick getting the most minutes of any player on the team??!  Please, by all means cherry pick whichever stats of his you want. 

Well if you're talking about minutes being divided between Derrick and John, someone who favors Derrick could pick assists, TO's, A/TO ratio, steals, rebounds or FG%.  And that's without mentioning that he plays better defense.

But yeah, let's just look at FTs and 3s....

Quote from: GooooMarquette on February 04, 2014, 05:22:50 PM
Well if you're talking about minutes being divided between Derrick and John, someone who favors Derrick could pick assists, TO's, A/TO ratio, steals, rebounds or FG%.  And that's without mentioning that he plays better defense.

But yeah, let's just look at FTs and 3s....

Honest question - Do you feel Derrick Wilson has more basketball talent than John Dawson?

I'll give that regardless of minutes, I'd suspect Derrick is a better rebounder than John.  However, I am quite confident if you were to look at assists per 40 minutes, those numbers would be roughly equal...and as for turnovers...probably a slight edge to Derrick.

What I do know is that 90% of Derrick's 2 pt FG attempts come in the form of layups...so, I'm not super impressed with his 2 point FG%...and with defenses knowing he's no threat to shoot a 3, or much less a 2 from the midrange, or shoot off the bounce....the negative domino effect that creates on the MU offense is something that statistically cannot be quantified - other than to look at team record - and guy getting the most minutes driving the bus at PG position...has to shoulder the blame.

I've said it before...I'd be happier if Derrick would just launch 5, 3pt shots a game to at least plant the seed to defenses that he will shoot it from out there...as well as for him to shoot some pull ups off the bounce...all in the spirit of keeping the defense honest..

Quote from: Ners on February 04, 2014, 05:37:16 PM
Honest question - Do you feel Derrick Wilson has more basketball talent than John Dawson?

I'll give that regardless of minutes, I'd suspect Derrick is a better rebounder than John.  However, I am quite confident if you were to look at assists per 40 minutes, those numbers would be roughly equal...and as for turnovers...probably a slight edge to Derrick.

What I do know is that 90% of Derrick's 2 pt FG attempts come in the form of layups...so, I'm not super impressed with his 2 point FG%...and with defenses knowing he's no threat to shoot a 3, or much less a 2 from the midrange, or shoot off the bounce....the negative domino effect that creates on the MU offense is something that statistically cannot be quantified - other than to look at team record - and guy getting the most minutes driving the bus at PG position...has to shoulder the blame.

I've said it before...I'd be happier if Derrick would just launch 5, 3pt shots a game to at least plant the seed to defenses that he will shoot it from out there...as well as for him to shoot some pull ups off the bounce...all in the spirit of keeping the defense honest..

Does it honestly matter what another poster thinks? Why can't he have his opinion? Why can't you have yours? And by "have yours", I mean not start 99 threads about the same argument over and over. (Including creating a poll.. and then referencing those poll results in your many, many threads and posts about the same subjects). We all know how you feel. Many agree with you. Some disagree for several different reasons. But, in the end, what's the point in overdoing this so much? At this point, just like any other debate, everyone is becoming more and more entrenched in their own viewpoint. You're not going to convert anyone. Why not just email Buzz and be done with it? You will have gone to the ONE source who actually has a say in the debate.

If you keep posting, I'll keep reading. And likely replying. Because I do like back and forths on meaningful subject. Or I like to be tortured.

Quote from: BenCat12 on February 04, 2014, 03:28:08 PM
Here is a hypothetical, (if we are still allowed to post these here) what if they play poorly the rest of the season and the booing continues?  Will Buzz still play the, "as long as they want me card?"  He has proven to be pretty thin skinned about those things, curious as to what the message board police think.....Will the booing continue and if so will Buzz be able to handle it?  Will a select few students and message board maniacs be enough to make Buzz want to leave?  Just curious, fire away "experts."

I was listening to that post game and he was upset with the booing because it was directed at a player. What he basically said was that a player at this level should not be booed by his own fans. My take on it is that these are not pros and they are doing the best they can.
As for the Freshmen they have been getting more minutes. It is obvious Buzz thinks they are ready for more minutes.
About Dawson in the Georgetown game Buzz gave the explanation and it was posted before. He thinks both Dawson and Taylor are "really, really good against the zone"...so he says that there was a zone, plus Derrick fouls, he got Dawson and Taylor in they got hot played well so he said he 'rolled with them". Good coaching, knew best players to go against the zone and they responded. He has tried on other occasions, but they have not been able to respond. Taylor has been terrible on offense the last few games missing open layups, have to wonder if maybe the knee hurts or if he is worrying about re-injuring the knee?
I recall Hank Raymonds being booed a lot at least 79-80, 80-81 seasons, would Buzz leave? I think if it starts to happen repeatedly then maybe.

Quote from: BenCat12 on February 04, 2014, 03:41:54 PM
As mentioned in another thread, he complained about booing back in 2011.  He has proven to be testy on other occasions as well, the McIlvaine incident comes to mind.  

I just have a feeling that if the losing with Derrick and Jake continues, the booing is going to become overwhelming..

I can't remember what thread I posted it in but this kind of proves my point that as fans we have to reflect on this season and if our character is revealed.  It's a frustrating season, but under what pretense should this team ever be booed let alone justified?   Buzz should be pissed about that, its just total disrespect.  I wouldn't be ok with it if this was a professional team let alone a bunch of young adults.

Clearly this season hasn't been what we want but I just don't get the anger and agnst and the you owe me this mentality

Quote from: mu03eng on February 04, 2014, 06:33:21 PM
I can't remember what thread I posted it in but this kind of proves my point that as fans we have to reflect on this season and if our character is revealed.  It's a frustrating season, but under what pretense should this team ever be booed let alone justified?   Buzz should be pissed about that, its just total disrespect.  I wouldn't be ok with it if this was a professional team let alone a bunch of young adults.

Clearly this season hasn't been what we want but I just don't get the anger and agnst and the you owe me this mentality

Talk to Willie.  He'll fill you in.

New thought. How about we focus on the Butler game tonight and go from there. I think I am correct when I say Buzz decides who plays. Our votes, either way, do not count.

Fox is shortly going to present on FS1 a way that MU can get into the Big Dance. I believe it is still possible but we need the heart, confidence, great coaching and passion to climb a very, very big hill. But it is possible with a little luck and a lot of determination it can happen. That should be our focus.

I want to follow the Kentucky blueprint or Kansas blueprint or Duke blueprint... I will take a pass on Northwestern blueprint for running basketball program.

Quote from: Ners on February 04, 2014, 05:37:16 PM
Honest question - Do you feel Derrick Wilson has more basketball talent than John Dawson?

I'll give that regardless of minutes, I'd suspect Derrick is a better rebounder than John.  However, I am quite confident if you were to look at assists per 40 minutes, those numbers would be roughly equal...and as for turnovers...probably a slight edge to Derrick.

What I do know is that 90% of Derrick's 2 pt FG attempts come in the form of layups...so, I'm not super impressed with his 2 point FG%...and with defenses knowing he's no threat to shoot a 3, or much less a 2 from the midrange, or shoot off the bounce....the negative domino effect that creates on the MU offense is something that statistically cannot be quantified - other than to look at team record - and guy getting the most minutes driving the bus at PG position...has to shoulder the blame.

"Cannot be quantified?" 

Lol.  In other words, the team stats that show that MU is scoring more and assisting more dont support my point of view, so I'm going to ignore them.

Quote from: Ners on February 04, 2014, 05:37:16 PM


What I do know is that 90% of Derrick's 2 pt FG attempts come in the form of layups...so, I'm not super impressed with his 2 point FG%...

Begs the question - How come Derrick can get to the rim for so many lay ups but John can't? Would you rather have your PG shooting 2 point pull up jump shots or lay ups?

Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 04, 2014, 07:46:28 PM
Begs the question - How come Derrick can get to the rim for so many lay ups but John can't? Would you rather have your PG shooting 2 point pull up jump shots or lay ups?

He averages 5 points a game...clearly he's not making that many lay ups a game.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on February 04, 2014, 07:46:28 PM
Begs the question - How come Derrick can get to the rim for so many lay ups but John can't? Would you rather have your PG shooting 2 point pull up jump shots or lay ups?

That wasn't serious was it Lenny?
You're better than that.

Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on February 04, 2014, 07:10:16 PM

"Cannot be quantified?" 

Lol.  In other words, the team stats that show that MU is scoring more and assisting more dont support my point of view, so I'm going to ignore them.

Don't really care if we are assisting more - efficiency is name of the game, and this is far and away the least efficient team of Buzz's tenure per Pomroy, measured in Adjusted Offensive Efficiency and Effective FG% - the two key metrics of offensive production.  So we are scoring more points (perhaps an offshoot of rules change...believe scoring is up across college basketball), but are still losing more than ever before...and all of this with an elite, lockdown Aaron Craft caliber PG defender in Derrick..?  Don't think anyone would argue Derrick is an upgrade over Junior defensively...so at PG...we should be better on D, right?  How do you reconcile then, such a poor record - even though our scoring is up?

Quote from: MerrittsMustache on February 04, 2014, 08:30:35 AM
Sobolewski and Cobb are juniors and Demps is a RS Soph (i.e. he's in his third year at NU).

Demps averaged 19 minutes a game last season, including over 23 minutes during B10 play, which is the same as the number of minutes he was playing prior to Sobolewski's injury this season.

Cobb averaged 24 min as a frosh and 20.4 min last season. He was averaging 31.4 min prior to Sobolewski's injury.

In other words, neither player was a freshman thrown into the mix for the sake of getting him minutes.

Also, NU is 5-3 since Sobolewski went down and had two 26-point losses.

Pretty weak effort, even for you, Ners.

Cobb is a redshirt junior. He didn't average 20.4 min last season. He averaged 0 because he didn't play.

Sobo has played sporadically. He did make an appearance at Minnesota this weekend..and two games before that.

JerShon and Tre were already getting minutes. The benefit has largely gone to Kale Abrahamson who has stepped into the starting lineup and spread around as additional mins to others who were already getting late... occasionally Cerina gets some run.

Northwestern's offense is way worse even compared to Marquette's. They are winning with defense. There's been one game over 1.00 ppp in Big Ten play for them. Not a Sobo issue.

Quote from: Ners on February 04, 2014, 07:58:12 PM
Don't really care if we are assisting more - efficiency is name of the game, and this is far and away the least efficient team of Buzz's tenure per Pomroy, measured in Adjusted Offensive Efficiency and Effective FG% - the two key metrics of offensive production.  So we are scoring more points (perhaps an offshoot of rules change...believe scoring is up across college basketball), but are still losing more than ever before...and all of this with an elite, lockdown Aaron Craft caliber PG defender in Derrick..?  Don't think anyone would argue Derrick is an upgrade over Junior defensively...so at PG...we should be better on D, right?  How do you reconcile then, such a poor record - even though our scoring is up?

Maybe because 9 of the 10 losses were against the Top 52 teams per Pomeroy and maybe because as an overall team MU isn't as good as past years.  When was the last time MU played 11 Top 52 teams before the midpoint of the conference season?

Quote from: BallBoy on February 04, 2014, 08:14:23 PM
Maybe because 9 of the 10 losses were against the Top 52 teams per Pomeroy and maybe because as an overall team MU isn't as good as past years.  When was the last time MU played 11 Top 52 teams before the midpoint of the conference season?

Pomroy has us predicted to finish 16-15 for the year and 8-10 in the watered down Big East...and we've never had a more veteran team in Buzz's tenure.  Lots of returning letter winners.  This season has been an epic fail thus far....hopefully it can still be salvaged...I still am hesitant to throw in the towel as still think the team has too much talent to be as bad as we've been..

@lenny .... Guesstimating what Dawson will do is totally out of order .... Per your number game .... Not fair to Derrick either .... Derricks and young Dawson's games are different, and if mixed during games would totally work for MARQUETTE .  Young Dawson is only 18yrs old and 3months into the program showing great promise.  Getting to go against Derrick in practice and learning from the vets is a great position to be in for the future.    Wait TIL we all can see young Dawson in some other plus min roles and then make your determination, which will be your opinion....hint hint.   Derrick is doing Derrick and I love that about him .... Young Dawson is staying patient...humble and hungry and loving MARQUETTE (not the weather)

Quote from: dddawson on February 07, 2014, 11:22:30 AM
@lenny .... Guesstimating what Dawson will do is totally out of order .... Per your number game .... Not fair to Derrick either .... Derricks and young Dawson's games are different, and if mixed during games would totally work for MARQUETTE .  Young Dawson is only 18yrs old and 3months into the program showing great promise.  Getting to go against Derrick in practice and learning from the vets is a great position to be in for the future.    Wait TIL we all can see young Dawson in some other plus min roles and then make your determination, which will be your opinion....hint hint.   Derrick is doing Derrick and I love that about him .... Young Dawson is staying patient...humble and hungry and loving MARQUETTE (not the weather)

I think John can be a really good player at MU. Maybe in addition to backing up Derrick he sees some time at the 2/3 this year. Think he could help us there.

Quote from: dddawson on February 07, 2014, 11:22:30 AM
@lenny .... Guesstimating what Dawson will do is totally out of order .... Per your number game .... Not fair to Derrick either .... Derricks and young Dawson's games are different, and if mixed during games would totally work for MARQUETTE .  Young Dawson is only 18yrs old and 3months into the program showing great promise.  Getting to go against Derrick in practice and learning from the vets is a great position to be in for the future.    Wait TIL we all can see young Dawson in some other plus min roles and then make your determination, which will be your opinion....hint hint.   Derrick is doing Derrick and I love that about him .... Young Dawson is staying patient...humble and hungry and loving MARQUETTE (not the weather)

Excellent perspective. I don't think John had the same exposure to playing against top talent in HS like some of the other guys had. He's started a little behind some of the other frosh but is learning the college game every day. And being behind someone who works as hard as Derrick will only help him in the future.

Quote from: dddawson on February 07, 2014, 11:22:30 AM
@lenny .... Guesstimating what Dawson will do is totally out of order .... Per your number game .... Not fair to Derrick either .... Derricks and young Dawson's games are different, and if mixed during games would totally work for MARQUETTE .  Young Dawson is only 18yrs old and 3months into the program showing great promise.  Getting to go against Derrick in practice and learning from the vets is a great position to be in for the future.    Wait TIL we all can see young Dawson in some other plus min roles and then make your determination, which will be your opinion....hint hint.   Derrick is doing Derrick and I love that about him .... Young Dawson is staying patient...humble and hungry and loving MARQUETTE (not the weather)

For everyone ... dddawson is John Dawson's father.

Mr. Dawson

Please understand this is a fan message board.  I hope Buzz warned you that this means it's a bunch of unknowing fans (aka yahoos) talking out their backsides (me included).  Half the time people make up stuff just to get people to respond.  So, please do not let any of the BS spewed here affect your or John's opinion of MU.

Sir, it is a privilege to have your son on this team.  You should be proud of him in every way.  I'm glad he is enjoying MU.  Tell him not every winter is this bad.