Northwestern should be Buzz's blueprint...

[BenCat12]

However; there is no basis in fact that this is true.  You hope it to be true but when presented with fact we need to ignore it because:

• Buzz doesn't know what he is doing and only out of loyalty to Wilson and his hatred of Dawson does he not see that Dawson is a stud.  He doesn't take the daily practices into account because even a rec league player, in 2-3 minutes of spot play, can see Dawson would get double the output.
• Anything that shows that Dawson might not be ready should instantly be ignored due to small sample size.  At providence, Dawson was in the game for an 11-0 run in 3:30 seconds.  That sample size is too small to judge and Buzz stacked the deck against him because he rotated in 9 other players.
• It doesn't matter the games we lost were against Top 50 schools (most of which were close).  Had Dawson played more we would have won them because against Georgetown we won

Where did I say any of that?  I am not Ners.  Of coarse nobody knows what would have happened, it is called a hypothetical.  But my opinion is that if three freshmen were given more minutes earlier in the year, they would be better today.  Not sure how that is debatable?  Unless of coarse you believe playing in games doesn't make you better. 
Please hang up and try your call again.

[tower912]

Here is a hypothetical, (if we are still allowed to post these here) what if they play poorly the rest of the season and the booing continues?  Will Buzz still play the, "as long as they want me card?"  He has proven to be pretty thin skinned about those things, curious as to what the message board police think.....Will the booing continue and if so will Buzz be able to handle it?  Will a select few students and message board maniacs be enough to make Buzz want to leave?  Just curious, fire away "experts."

No. 

[BallBoy]

Where did I say any of that?  I am not Ners.  Of coarse nobody knows what would have happened, it is called a hypothetical.  But my opinion is that if three freshmen were given more minutes earlier in the year, they would be better today.  Not sure how that is debatable?  Unless of coarse you believe playing in games doesn't make you better. 
Please hang up and try your call again.

Sure games make you "better" but not nearly as much as practice.  So since they participated in, I assume every practice, wouldn't they also be better today?  Understand the offense and defense better?  Understand how to communicate better? Is there any inclination that they aren't better then when we played Grambling State or just that they aren't good enough yet to start?  Or are there better players right now?  

Looking back if I knew that I am going to lose 10 games, why didn't I play them more.  Because at the time, I didn't know that and Buzz's opinion was he was playing those people who would win the game for him.  And he also needs to those players better too.  How about I don't play Gardner so Otule and Steve Taylor could get better?  How about I don't play Mayo a single minute so JJJ could get better?  Let's not even talk about playing Jamil because I need to get Deonte better.    


 

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

In my skimming I saw someone said that Derrick might be the 3rd string PG. I honestly think that is one thing that will NOT happen. Not because Derrick is better than Duane and John Dawesome, but because he would transfer if that was the case. Do you really think Buzz would let a hard working, high character, and not to mention one of his favorite players spend his entire senior season warming the bench? If Derrick is passed by both the youngings on the depth chart, Buzz would encourage him to transfer somewhere else where he could play.

Now saying that one Derrick will return to his role of backup PG is much more likely.

[GGGG]

If Derrick gets 25+ minutes per game next year, I'll guarantee you right now we won't make the NCAA tourney next year.  

So if this does actually happen, will you take a year long vacation from the board?  (Which means you'd be back in about 48 hours....)

Sultan - Do you think you could find one other junior (hell forget junior) just any PG in all of D-1 Hoops who gets 29 minutes per game and has made 1, 3 point shot for the year on 8% shooting?  That shoots 46% from the FT line?  

I mean, those numbers are almost impossible to post.  I know you say you understand Derrick's limitations - but man - to think he's better than Dawson - Dawson must be really, really bad...

I cannot believe you are still cherry-picking stats and acting as if those two stats validate your point of view.

[BenCat12]

Sure games make you "better" but not nearly as much as practice.  So since they participated in, I assume every practice, wouldn't they also be better today? Yes you get more skilled in practice than you do in games, but you gain more confidence from gametime Understand the offense and defense better?  Understand how to communicate better? Is there any inclination that they aren't better then when we played Grambling State or just that they aren't good enough yet to start?  Or are there better players right now? They are all better today than they were when we played Grambling State, I am not sure what the point of that is.  

Looking back if I knew that I am going to lose 10 games, why didn't I play them more.  Because at the time, I didn't know that and Buzz's opinion was he was playing those people who would win the game for him.  And he also needs to those players better too.  How about I don't play Gardner so Otule and Steve Taylor could get better? How about I don't play Mayo a single minute so JJJ could get better?  Let's not even talk about playing Jamil because I need to get Deonte better. This part is just incoherent babble so I won't respond to it.    


 

[GGGG]

MU4Life posted this in another thread, but I am going to quote it here as well.

http://onmilwaukee.com/sports/articles/marquetteoffense.html

"Some of our best offensive players are our worst defensive players; and some of our best defensive players are our worst offensive players," head coach Buzz Williams said against Providence. "So, running them in waves the way we did in the first half (against Providence) was kind of a balance of all of it. Not, who started, not how old they are, not where they're from, not what they did the last game or the game before, but what gives us our best chance today, from start to finish, to win."

Exactly what I have been saying...

[NersEllenson]

So if this does actually happen, will you take a year long vacation from the board?  (Which means you'd be back in about 48 hours....)



I cannot believe you are still cherry-picking stats and acting as if those two stats validate your point of view.

Cherry picking stats??  What stats do you want to champion to support Derrick getting the most minutes of any player on the team??!  Please, by all means cherry pick whichever stats of his you want. 

But yes, the fact the team is 12-10, 5-10 against teams ranked 198 and higher, best win against Team Ranked 40th, and our max minute getter being our worst rated offensive player - I feel all of those validate that he isn't getting the job done in any way, shape or form.

Still waiting for you to respond to my question earlier:  Did Dawson "have the hot hand" in the Georgetown game throughout?  Lenny has said as much, that Dawson was marginal in regulation, but then great in OT.  Getting lots of playing time starts to normalize results and impact - Derrick has had PLENTY of time to show what he's capable of...and unfortunately - he hasn't shown much.  I truly wish that wasn't the case - wish he was leading the team to wins, being a threat from all ares on the floor, creating great looks for teammates in the halfcourt - those things just aren't happening.

What do you think Derrick's numbers would look like if he were averaging 10 minutes per game....and those minutes came in 3 different stints of playing time...and while in one of those stints, he had the "pleasure" of playing with 9 different guys?!

[GooooMarquette]

Cherry picking stats??  What stats do you want to champion to support Derrick getting the most minutes of any player on the team??!  Please, by all means cherry pick whichever stats of his you want. 

Well if you're talking about minutes being divided between Derrick and John, someone who favors Derrick could pick assists, TO's, A/TO ratio, steals, rebounds or FG%.  And that's without mentioning that he plays better defense.

But yeah, let's just look at FTs and 3s....

[NersEllenson]

Well if you're talking about minutes being divided between Derrick and John, someone who favors Derrick could pick assists, TO's, A/TO ratio, steals, rebounds or FG%.  And that's without mentioning that he plays better defense.

But yeah, let's just look at FTs and 3s....

Honest question - Do you feel Derrick Wilson has more basketball talent than John Dawson?

I'll give that regardless of minutes, I'd suspect Derrick is a better rebounder than John.  However, I am quite confident if you were to look at assists per 40 minutes, those numbers would be roughly equal...and as for turnovers...probably a slight edge to Derrick.

What I do know is that 90% of Derrick's 2 pt FG attempts come in the form of layups...so, I'm not super impressed with his 2 point FG%...and with defenses knowing he's no threat to shoot a 3, or much less a 2 from the midrange, or shoot off the bounce....the negative domino effect that creates on the MU offense is something that statistically cannot be quantified - other than to look at team record - and guy getting the most minutes driving the bus at PG position...has to shoulder the blame.

I've said it before...I'd be happier if Derrick would just launch 5, 3pt shots a game to at least plant the seed to defenses that he will shoot it from out there...as well as for him to shoot some pull ups off the bounce...all in the spirit of keeping the defense honest..

[jesmu84]

Honest question - Do you feel Derrick Wilson has more basketball talent than John Dawson?

I'll give that regardless of minutes, I'd suspect Derrick is a better rebounder than John.  However, I am quite confident if you were to look at assists per 40 minutes, those numbers would be roughly equal...and as for turnovers...probably a slight edge to Derrick.

What I do know is that 90% of Derrick's 2 pt FG attempts come in the form of layups...so, I'm not super impressed with his 2 point FG%...and with defenses knowing he's no threat to shoot a 3, or much less a 2 from the midrange, or shoot off the bounce....the negative domino effect that creates on the MU offense is something that statistically cannot be quantified - other than to look at team record - and guy getting the most minutes driving the bus at PG position...has to shoulder the blame.

I've said it before...I'd be happier if Derrick would just launch 5, 3pt shots a game to at least plant the seed to defenses that he will shoot it from out there...as well as for him to shoot some pull ups off the bounce...all in the spirit of keeping the defense honest..

Does it honestly matter what another poster thinks? Why can't he have his opinion? Why can't you have yours? And by "have yours", I mean not start 99 threads about the same argument over and over. (Including creating a poll.. and then referencing those poll results in your many, many threads and posts about the same subjects). We all know how you feel. Many agree with you. Some disagree for several different reasons. But, in the end, what's the point in overdoing this so much? At this point, just like any other debate, everyone is becoming more and more entrenched in their own viewpoint. You're not going to convert anyone. Why not just email Buzz and be done with it? You will have gone to the ONE source who actually has a say in the debate.

If you keep posting, I'll keep reading. And likely replying. Because I do like back and forths on meaningful subject. Or I like to be tortured.

[Newsdreams]

Here is a hypothetical, (if we are still allowed to post these here) what if they play poorly the rest of the season and the booing continues?  Will Buzz still play the, "as long as they want me card?"  He has proven to be pretty thin skinned about those things, curious as to what the message board police think.....Will the booing continue and if so will Buzz be able to handle it?  Will a select few students and message board maniacs be enough to make Buzz want to leave?  Just curious, fire away "experts."

I was listening to that post game and he was upset with the booing because it was directed at a player. What he basically said was that a player at this level should not be booed by his own fans. My take on it is that these are not pros and they are doing the best they can.
As for the Freshmen they have been getting more minutes. It is obvious Buzz thinks they are ready for more minutes.
About Dawson in the Georgetown game Buzz gave the explanation and it was posted before. He thinks both Dawson and Taylor are "really, really good against the zone"...so he says that there was a zone, plus Derrick fouls, he got Dawson and Taylor in they got hot played well so he said he 'rolled with them". Good coaching, knew best players to go against the zone and they responded. He has tried on other occasions, but they have not been able to respond. Taylor has been terrible on offense the last few games missing open layups, have to wonder if maybe the knee hurts or if he is worrying about re-injuring the knee?
I recall Hank Raymonds being booed a lot at least 79-80, 80-81 seasons, would Buzz leave? I think if it starts to happen repeatedly then maybe.

[mu03eng]

As mentioned in another thread, he complained about booing back in 2011.  He has proven to be testy on other occasions as well, the McIlvaine incident comes to mind.  

I just have a feeling that if the losing with Derrick and Jake continues, the booing is going to become overwhelming..

I can't remember what thread I posted it in but this kind of proves my point that as fans we have to reflect on this season and if our character is revealed.  It's a frustrating season, but under what pretense should this team ever be booed let alone justified?   Buzz should be pissed about that, its just total disrespect.  I wouldn't be ok with it if this was a professional team let alone a bunch of young adults.

Clearly this season hasn't been what we want but I just don't get the anger and agnst and the you owe me this mentality

[ATL MU Warrior]

I can't remember what thread I posted it in but this kind of proves my point that as fans we have to reflect on this season and if our character is revealed.  It's a frustrating season, but under what pretense should this team ever be booed let alone justified?   Buzz should be pissed about that, its just total disrespect.  I wouldn't be ok with it if this was a professional team let alone a bunch of young adults.

Clearly this season hasn't been what we want but I just don't get the anger and agnst and the you owe me this mentality

Talk to Willie.  He'll fill you in.

[Class71]

New thought. How about we focus on the Butler game tonight and go from there. I think I am correct when I say Buzz decides who plays. Our votes, either way, do not count.

Fox is shortly going to present on FS1 a way that MU can get into the Big Dance. I believe it is still possible but we need the heart, confidence, great coaching and passion to climb a very, very big hill. But it is possible with a little luck and a lot of determination it can happen. That should be our focus.

[Goose]

I want to follow the Kentucky blueprint or Kansas blueprint or Duke blueprint... I will take a pass on Northwestern blueprint for running basketball program.

[GGGG]

Honest question - Do you feel Derrick Wilson has more basketball talent than John Dawson?

I'll give that regardless of minutes, I'd suspect Derrick is a better rebounder than John.  However, I am quite confident if you were to look at assists per 40 minutes, those numbers would be roughly equal...and as for turnovers...probably a slight edge to Derrick.

What I do know is that 90% of Derrick's 2 pt FG attempts come in the form of layups...so, I'm not super impressed with his 2 point FG%...and with defenses knowing he's no threat to shoot a 3, or much less a 2 from the midrange, or shoot off the bounce....the negative domino effect that creates on the MU offense is something that statistically cannot be quantified - other than to look at team record - and guy getting the most minutes driving the bus at PG position...has to shoulder the blame.

"Cannot be quantified?" 

Lol.  In other words, the team stats that show that MU is scoring more and assisting more dont support my point of view, so I'm going to ignore them.

[Lennys Tap]

What I do know is that 90% of Derrick's 2 pt FG attempts come in the form of layups...so, I'm not super impressed with his 2 point FG%...

Begs the question - How come Derrick can get to the rim for so many lay ups but John can't? Would you rather have your PG shooting 2 point pull up jump shots or lay ups?

[Wojo'sMojo]

Begs the question - How come Derrick can get to the rim for so many lay ups but John can't? Would you rather have your PG shooting 2 point pull up jump shots or lay ups?

He averages 5 points a game...clearly he's not making that many lay ups a game.

[BenCat12]

Begs the question - How come Derrick can get to the rim for so many lay ups but John can't? Would you rather have your PG shooting 2 point pull up jump shots or lay ups?

That wasn't serious was it Lenny?
You're better than that.

[NersEllenson]

"Cannot be quantified?" 

Lol.  In other words, the team stats that show that MU is scoring more and assisting more dont support my point of view, so I'm going to ignore them.

Don't really care if we are assisting more - efficiency is name of the game, and this is far and away the least efficient team of Buzz's tenure per Pomroy, measured in Adjusted Offensive Efficiency and Effective FG% - the two key metrics of offensive production.  So we are scoring more points (perhaps an offshoot of rules change...believe scoring is up across college basketball), but are still losing more than ever before...and all of this with an elite, lockdown Aaron Craft caliber PG defender in Derrick..?  Don't think anyone would argue Derrick is an upgrade over Junior defensively...so at PG...we should be better on D, right?  How do you reconcile then, such a poor record - even though our scoring is up?

[Jay Bee]

Sobolewski and Cobb are juniors and Demps is a RS Soph (i.e. he's in his third year at NU).

Demps averaged 19 minutes a game last season, including over 23 minutes during B10 play, which is the same as the number of minutes he was playing prior to Sobolewski's injury this season.

Cobb averaged 24 min as a frosh and 20.4 min last season. He was averaging 31.4 min prior to Sobolewski's injury.

In other words, neither player was a freshman thrown into the mix for the sake of getting him minutes.

Also, NU is 5-3 since Sobolewski went down and had two 26-point losses.

Pretty weak effort, even for you, Ners.

Cobb is a redshirt junior. He didn't average 20.4 min last season. He averaged 0 because he didn't play.

Sobo has played sporadically. He did make an appearance at Minnesota this weekend..and two games before that.

JerShon and Tre were already getting minutes. The benefit has largely gone to Kale Abrahamson who has stepped into the starting lineup and spread around as additional mins to others who were already getting late... occasionally Cerina gets some run.

Northwestern's offense is way worse even compared to Marquette's. They are winning with defense. There's been one game over 1.00 ppp in Big Ten play for them. Not a Sobo issue.

[BallBoy]

Don't really care if we are assisting more - efficiency is name of the game, and this is far and away the least efficient team of Buzz's tenure per Pomroy, measured in Adjusted Offensive Efficiency and Effective FG% - the two key metrics of offensive production.  So we are scoring more points (perhaps an offshoot of rules change...believe scoring is up across college basketball), but are still losing more than ever before...and all of this with an elite, lockdown Aaron Craft caliber PG defender in Derrick..?  Don't think anyone would argue Derrick is an upgrade over Junior defensively...so at PG...we should be better on D, right?  How do you reconcile then, such a poor record - even though our scoring is up?

Maybe because 9 of the 10 losses were against the Top 52 teams per Pomeroy and maybe because as an overall team MU isn't as good as past years.  When was the last time MU played 11 Top 52 teams before the midpoint of the conference season?

[NersEllenson]

Maybe because 9 of the 10 losses were against the Top 52 teams per Pomeroy and maybe because as an overall team MU isn't as good as past years.  When was the last time MU played 11 Top 52 teams before the midpoint of the conference season?

Pomroy has us predicted to finish 16-15 for the year and 8-10 in the watered down Big East...and we've never had a more veteran team in Buzz's tenure.  Lots of returning letter winners.  This season has been an epic fail thus far....hopefully it can still be salvaged...I still am hesitant to throw in the towel as still think the team has too much talent to be as bad as we've been..

[dddawson]

@lenny .... Guesstimating what Dawson will do is totally out of order .... Per your number game .... Not fair to Derrick either .... Derricks and young Dawson's games are different, and if mixed during games would totally work for MARQUETTE .  Young Dawson is only 18yrs old and 3months into the program showing great promise.  Getting to go against Derrick in practice and learning from the vets is a great position to be in for the future.    Wait TIL we all can see young Dawson in some other plus min roles and then make your determination, which will be your opinion....hint hint.   Derrick is doing Derrick and I love that about him .... Young Dawson is staying patient...humble and hungry and loving MARQUETTE (not the weather)