Northwestern should be Buzz's blueprint...

[mu-rara]

I have said before that I think Derrick should start and play about 25 minutes and that Dawson should be his backup and play about 15.  And by "hot hand" I mean "better player." 

Against Georgetown and Xavier, that was clearly Dawson.  Against Providence, Butler and Nova, that was clearly Derrick. 

Just because we came back to win v. Georgetown with Dawson playing a lot doesn't mean Dawson playing a lot = a win.  Just like you can't come away from the Providence game saying "hey Derrick played a lot...and we won...therefore Derrick playing a lot equals a win."

River rat said it best in another thread.  Dawson will likely be better as a junior than Derrick is now.  But he's not a junior, and I just don't think he's better.

AMEN BROTHER!

[Lennys Tap]

Ners is a good guy, big fan and he knows some stuff about basketball. He also obsessed on this topic. He wants us to throw out 164 minutes of poor numbers (too small a sample, not a long enough "run", blah, blah, blah) and use 5 minutes of good play in OT vs Georgetown for future expectations. I'd rather look at all 169 minutes. Sadly they don't paint the prettiest of pictures. Projecting his numbers given Derrick's minutes, here are the totals:

                Derrick    John D
Points           120        126
Assists           86          63
Rebounds       87          63
TOs                34          37
Steals             23          8

John is a much better 3 point and free throw shooter but his overall FG% is 10 points lower than Derrick's. So, 6 more points, 23 fewer assists, 24 fewer rebounds, 3 more TOs and 15 fewer steals. Throw in much worse on ball defense. 12-10 sucks, but it could be worse.

[BenCat12]

Ners is a good guy, big fan and he knows some stuff about basketball. He also obsessed on this topic. He wants us to throw out 164 minutes of poor numbers (too small a sample, not a long enough "run", blah, blah, blah) and use 5 minutes of good play in OT vs Georgetown for future expectations. I'd rather look at all 169 minutes. Sadly they don't paint the prettiest of pictures. Projecting his numbers given Derrick's minutes, here are the totals:

                Derrick    John D
Points           120        126
Assists           86          63
Rebounds       87          63
TOs                34          37
Steals             23          8

John is a much better 3 point and free throw shooter but his overall FG% is 10 points lower than Derrick's. So, 6 more points, 23 fewer assists, 24 fewer rebounds, 3 more TOs and 15 fewer steals. Throw in much worse on ball defense. 12-10 sucks, but it could be worse.

I think the point is the numbers on the left are for an established player with a lot of experience, Derrick is what he is by now.  He isn't going to get much better or worse.  But it is hard for me, or some others, to believe that if the amount of minutes were switched from the beginning of the season, that Dawson's wouldn't be near double what Derrick's are on a per minute basis.  Of coarse we will never know, but I think that's where the argument comes from.  The argument for me is limited ability and consistency vs. raw talent and potential.  It is just a difference in opinion.  Clearly this season Buzz believes limited ability and consistency is better than raw talent and potential. 

[River rat]

I seem to recall NERs screaming that Niv berkowitz should be playing the point over MArcus Jackson in 2005 too?
Seems every decade or so that we struggle at the point that he has all the answers.  Amybe MUBBAll can put him on retainer.
NErs did your dinner happen to be at Porcini's?

[TSmith34, Inc.]

But no worries, you along with the others can continue to bury your head in the sand and point toward "leadership,' and the team not getting loose balls, and "lacking heart," to explain how this team is significantly worse in all offensive measurables, than any other team of Buzz's.  Sadly, being a good leader in basketball doesn't mean you can make a 3 point shot.

I admire your ability to throw out a statistical claim, be shown to be absolutely completely wrong, yet ignore that and plow ahead with this same tired argument anyway.

You're not very good at this moratorium thingy.

[Wojo'sMojo]

Ners, I for one am ecstatic that your Derrick moratorium has ended. Keep fighting the good fight!!!

[NersEllenson]

I admire your ability to throw out a statistical claim, be shown to be absolutely completely wrong, yet ignore that and plow ahead with this same tired argument anyway.

You're not very good at this moratorium thingy.

Thanks. I agree in not doing well on moratorium. I am baffled by you and the 5 other staunch Derrick defenders to somehow rationalize a guy who shoots 46% from the FT line and 8% from 3, and has made 2, 3 point shots through 22 games into his junior season all while "leading" the team to its worst season in 9 years to be a better option than a raw freshman who can shoot and when given the 1 chance to play meaningful minutes delivered on a big way!  Talk about plowing ahead with a dumb argument!!  It truly is mind numbing.  I'd have no problem with Derrick getting 30 minutes a game of the team were winning h at a respectable clip. Yet instead we are 5-10 against teams ranked above 198 in the country and our best win coming against Number 40 George Washington. All in a year we were predicted to win the Big East by the other coaches in the league!!

[River rat]

Northwestern should be Buzz's blueprint...


Seriously...one needs to step back and read that phrase over again.  And then read it again.  Its sooo stupid i dont know whether to laugh or cry.  In a year of odd, in a year of irrational, in a year of wacky and absurd things on this board this comment blows everything else out of the water.  

All previous stupid comments are like firecrackers to this hiroshima bomb of stupidity!!

Seriously, just read that....Northwestern should be Buzz's blueprint...
incomprehensible.

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I am baffled by you and the 5 other staunch Derrick defenders

Occasionally -- just occasionally-- it would be helpful if you looked up a fact before throwing them out there as holy gospel.  If you can find a post of mine that would remotely qualify me as a "staunch Derrick defender" I'll send you a cookie.

[MerrittsMustache]

Occasionally -- just occasionally-- it would be helpful if you looked up a fact before throwing them out there as holy gospel.  If you can find a post of mine that would remotely qualify me as a "staunch Derrick defender" I'll send you a cookie.

Staunch Derrick Defender: noun, any open-minded MUScoop poster who doesn't relentlessly rip Derrick Wilson to shreds, doesn't share the opinion that Dawson should play 30 minutes a night because "it can't get any worse," and refuses to ignore all John Dawson performances that took place outside of the Verizon Center.

[mu03eng]

Staunch Derrick Defender: noun, any open-minded MUScoop poster who doesn't relentlessly rip Derrick Wilson to shreds, doesn't share the opinion that Dawson should play 30 minutes a night because "it can't get any worse," and refuses to ignore all John Dawson performances that took place outside of the Verizon Center.

See also; Slurper

[GooooMarquette]

Staunch Derrick Defender: noun, any open-minded MUScoop poster who doesn't relentlessly rip Derrick Wilson to shreds, doesn't share the opinion that Dawson should play 30 minutes a night because "it can't get any worse," and refuses to ignore all John Dawson performances that took place outside of the Verizon Center.

Guilty as charged.

[BallBoy]

I think the point is the numbers on the left are for an established player with a lot of experience, Derrick is what he is by now.  He isn't going to get much better or worse.  But it is hard for me, or some others, to believe that if the amount of minutes were switched from the beginning of the season, that Dawson's wouldn't be near double what Derrick's are on a per minute basis.  Of coarse we will never know, but I think that's where the argument comes from.  The argument for me is limited ability and consistency vs. raw talent and potential.  It is just a difference in opinion.  Clearly this season Buzz believes limited ability and consistency is better than raw talent and potential. 

However; there is no basis in fact that this is true.  You hope it to be true but when presented with fact we need to ignore it because:

• Buzz doesn't know what he is doing and only out of loyalty to Wilson and his hatred of Dawson does he not see that Dawson is a stud.  He doesn't take the daily practices into account because even a rec league player, in 2-3 minutes of spot play, can see Dawson would get double the output.
• Anything that shows that Dawson might not be ready should instantly be ignored due to small sample size.  At providence, Dawson was in the game for an 11-0 run in 3:30 seconds.  That sample size is too small to judge and Buzz stacked the deck against him because he rotated in 9 other players.
• It doesn't matter the games we lost were against Top 50 schools (most of which were close).  Had Dawson played more we would have won them because against Georgetown we won

[GGGG]

However; there is no basis in fact that this is true.  You hope it to be true but when presented with fact we need to ignore it because:

• Buzz doesn't know what he is doing and only out of loyalty to Wilson and his hatred of Dawson does he not see that Dawson is a stud.  He doesn't take the daily practices into account because even a rec league player, in 2-3 minutes of spot play, can see Dawson would get double the output.
• Anything that shows that Dawson might not be ready should instantly be ignored due to small sample size.  At providence, Dawson was in the game for an 11-0 run in 3:30 seconds.  That sample size is too small to judge and Buzz stacked the deck against him because he rotated in 9 other players.
• It doesn't matter the games we lost were against Top 50 schools (most of which were close).  Had Dawson played more we would have won them because against Georgetown we won

Yeah...that pretty much sums it up.

[Lennys Tap]

I think the point is the numbers on the left are for an established player with a lot of experience, Derrick is what he is by now.  He isn't going to get much better or worse.  But it is hard for me, or some others, to believe that if the amount of minutes were switched from the beginning of the season, that Dawson's wouldn't be near double what Derrick's are on a per minute basis.  Of coarse we will never know, but I think that's where the argument comes from.  The argument for me is limited ability and consistency vs. raw talent and potential.  It is just a difference in opinion.  Clearly this season Buzz believes limited ability and consistency is better than raw talent and potential. 

Give Jamail Jones, Erik Williams, etc., more minutes and they'll be much better than what the numbers say. They'll be different from the guy we see twice a week and Buzz sees every day. To me, that's hope over data/past experience. If we're giving up on this year and place getting the freshmen experience over winning, fine. Play them all 30+ minutes and finish under .500. I'd rather give them each 15 -20 minutes and still win some games this year.

[Lennys Tap]

Staunch Derrick Defender: noun, any open-minded MUScoop poster who doesn't relentlessly rip Derrick Wilson to shreds, doesn't share the opinion that Dawson should play 30 minutes a night because "it can't get any worse," and refuses to ignore all John Dawson performances that took place outside of the Verizon Center.

Synonyms:realist, empiricist. Antonym:dreamer

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Staunch Derrick Defender: noun, any open-minded MUScoop poster who doesn't relentlessly rip Derrick Wilson to shreds, doesn't share the opinion that Dawson should play 30 minutes a night because "it can't get any worse," and refuses to ignore all John Dawson performances that took place outside of the Verizon Center.

<------- Raises hand

[Wojo'sMojo]

Give Jamail Jones, Erik Williams, etc., more minutes and they'll be much better than what the numbers say. They'll be different from the guy we see twice a week and Buzz sees every day. To me, that's hope over data/past experience. If we're giving up on this year and place getting the freshmen experience over winning, fine. Play them all 30+ minutes and finish under .500. I'd rather give them each 15 -20 minutes and still win some games this year.

What difference does it make giving up on this yr? We aren't going to the tournament anyways. Cut our losses now and give more playing time to our young guys. I think they could surprise some people. We should be building for next year at this point. Oh and Jamil has been nonexistent half the time this yr anyway, so he wouldn't be missed.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

What difference does it make giving up on this yr? We aren't going to the tournament anyways. Cut our losses now and give more playing time to our young guys. I think they could surprise some people. We should be building for next year at this point. Oh and Jamil has been nonexistent half the time this yr anyway, so he wouldn't be missed.

I would hate that.

This isn't professional sports.

I don't want Buzz dumping/benching Jamil/Gardner for the rest of the year just so he can look at the frosh. Jamil and Gardner have busted their asses for 4 years. They deserve some loyalty.

[GGGG]

What difference does it make giving up on this yr? We aren't going to the tournament anyways. Cut our losses now and give more playing time to our young guys. I think they could surprise some people. We should be building for next year at this point. Oh and Jamil has been nonexistent half the time this yr anyway, so he wouldn't be missed.

Because you play to win games now.  And there is no guaranty that giving playing time to young guys is going to result in any favorable results next year.

Oh and Derrick Wilson is going to be around and will likely start next year.  So if you are "building for next year," that would include him right?

[willie warrior]

See also; Slurper

No, I started the slurper, so I get to define it: Anybody (other than Buzz's immediate family) who continues to rain down hosannas and praise offering up excuses for Buzz for this year's performance. Also anybody that gives Buzz an A+ for his 5 year performance as Coach at MU is by default a slurper.

[Eldon]

I don't know about Ners and the rest in our cult, but I for one was advocating that Dawson should be getting huge minutes *before* the Georgetown game.  I said that we should be playing Dawson more ONLY IF he is a true DI player (ie we didn't make a mistake recruiting him).  IMO, all the Georgetown game did was confirm that he does in fact have DI potential, it does *not* mean that he is Magic Johnson Jr.

RiverRat said that as a junior Dawson will be better than DWil.  I agree.  And thus, let's get that ceiling reached as soon as possible.  It's not like Dawson's mind/body is going to magically switch to beast mode simply because final grades have been released.  He needs to log minutes, not age.

Dawson, like all freshmen, will get better with minutes.  Minutes, minutes, minutes.  Age is merely a proxy for minutes.  The more minutes he logs the faster that potential gets realized.

[Eldon]

What difference does it make giving up on this yr? We aren't going to the tournament anyways. Cut our losses now and give more playing time to our young guys. I think they could surprise some people. We should be building for next year at this point. Oh and Jamil has been nonexistent half the time this yr anyway, so he wouldn't be missed.

No man, no.  Freshmen minutes now primes them for next year is merely a plus-factor, IMO.  The main reason to play them more now (esp Dawson) is so that we have a chance at winning the BE tournament.

[Archies Bat]

What difference does it make giving up on this yr? We aren't going to the tournament anyways. Cut our losses now and give more playing time to our young guys. I think they could surprise some people. We should be building for next year at this point. Oh and Jamil has been nonexistent half the time this yr anyway, so he wouldn't be missed.

Didn't Buzz do this somewhat against St John's?  JJJ had the 2nd most minutes of any player.  Deonte played until he fouled out.   Dawson played only 11 minutes, but had a very poor stat line, IMHO tied for worst on the team and very comparable to the poor stat lines of Jamil and Todd Mayo.

The freshman played, we lost, why aren't the youth advocates happy?

[GGGG]

Didn't Buzz do this somewhat against St John's?  JJJ had the 2nd most minutes of any player.  Deonte played until he fouled out.   Dawson played only 11 minutes, but had a very poor stat line, IMHO tied for worst on the team and very comparable to the poor stat lines of Jamil and Todd Mayo.

The freshman played, we lost, why aren't the youth advocates happy?

And they *should* have played.  They were the better, more aggressive players on the floor.  But that doesn't mean they will be tonight....

Basketball isn't that linear.