So I've been trying to figure out why I get annoyed by the Dawson over Derrick/JJJ over Jake/Burton over Anderson crowd. I know I have a different opinion than they do...but that's not it. CBB and MU82 frequently have different opinions than I do but I look forward to hearing their thoughts.
I think I figured it out. Not universally true, but many in the group have only negative things to say about those three. When Derrick hits a last second jumper it's "even blind squirrels can find a nut." When Jake scores 17 it's "he only goes off when we're losing." When Juan gets SOTG it's "he was the worst player on the floor, steals don't matter" Not a single positive thing to say. (Again this isn't universally true for everyone in that crowd)
But I know that at least for me, even though I'm in the Derrick/Jake/Juan fan club, I get really excited when Dawson/Burton/JJJ do well. Even though I'm being "proven wrong" in a sense, I get excited because it is good for my team. I wish others gave Derrick/Jake/Juan the same respect.
And I know there are some in the Derrick/Jake/Juan camp that do the same thing, and I get just annoyed with them.
I'm sure I will get attacked for this post, whatever, I couldn't give two sh1ts. Just wanted to share my realization
Jake works best. They both space the floor and can make a shot.
You can throw juan jjj or deonte wit them.
But d. Wilson doesnt require a defender.
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 11, 2014, 02:08:27 PM
So I've been trying to figure out why I get annoyed by the Dawson over Derrick/JJJ over Jake/Burton over Anderson crowd. I know I have a different opinion than they do...but that's not it. CBB and MU82 frequently have different opinions than I do but I look forward to hearing their thoughts.
I think I figured it out. Not universally true, but many in the group have only negative things to say about those three. When Derrick hits a last second jumper it's "even blind squirrels can find a nut." When Jake scores 17 it's "he only goes off when we're losing." When Juan gets SOTG it's "he was the worst player on the floor, steals don't matter" Not a single positive thing to say. (Again this isn't universally true for everyone in that crowd)
But I know that at least for me, even though I'm in the Derrick/Jake/Juan fan club, I get really excited when Dawson/Burton/JJJ do well. Even though I'm being "proven wrong" in a sense, I get excited because it is good for my team. I wish others gave Derrick/Jake/Juan the same respect.
And I know there are some in the Derrick/Jake/Juan camp that do the same thing, and I get just annoyed with them.
I'm sure I will get attacked for this post, whatever, I couldn't give two sh1ts. Just wanted to share my realization
It is all mostly about Derrick. A good kid but lacking in the requisites for success . this team lacks leadership and by default the point guard takes the heat. Hey I hope he does well too but the reality is he simply is not getting the job done .
Kiss cam camera guy must be from West Virginia, found every father-daughter and sister-brother combo in the building
this is a little ironic. i posted this in the game thread before i saw this topic: "question for anyone... are a bunch of the new posters (nevada, mubuzz, chris columbo, river rat, dreadman, sultan of silly) actually new? Or are they old posters with new names? Or did they get kicked off a different board and moved over here? Just curious. They all seem to have very similar opinions."
i'd agree with TAMU here 100%. it's fine to prefer different players or lineups. but some posters go nuts when derrrick, etc make poor plays and discount his successes. Sure, i want derrick more than dawson, but i'm happy when dawson plays well. that's why i wondered about these "new" posters and where they came from
The issue I have - being in the Dawson/JJJ/Burton club is we have gotten a ton of data as to what Derrick/Jake/Juan are capable of - and let's be real - it hasn't been good. Those guys are vets too. Should be getting much better production out of them
Those of us in the Dawson/Burton/JJJ club have to deal with watching Derrick play 30+ minutes a game, Jake 28+ per game, and Juan - well, he doesn't get as much now.
You'll notice Buzz ran a ton with Derrick, Jake and Juan down the stretch - if it weren't for Mayo - we lose this game against an awful Seton Hall team.
Derrick, as I suspected, looked very shaky against the press - I sure hope we don't see more of that, because its gonna be ugly. Derrick hasn't turned the ball over much cause he's never faced stiff pressure.
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 11, 2014, 03:10:00 PM
this is a little ironic. i posted this in the game thread before i saw this topic: "question for anyone... are a bunch of the new posters (nevada, mubuzz, chris columbo, river rat, dreadman, sultan of silly) actually new? Or are they old posters with new names? Or did they get kicked off a different board and moved over here? Just curious. They all seem to have very similar opinions."
i'd agree with TAMU here 100%. it's fine to prefer different players or lineups. but some posters go nuts when derrrick, etc make poor plays and discount his successes. Sure, i want derrick more than dawson, but i'm happy when dawson plays well. that's why i wondered about these "new" posters and where they came from
Im my own person if you want to know about me then ask and ill tell you....
Sorry I have more of a life than living on a message board. Just because I dont
Have 60094 posts doesnt make me less of a person than yall
You guys so full of crap. I'll say what I want about whoever I want
I graduated from Marquette in 2002 earned my degree and opinion if you dont like it Ban me. Period
This thread can also go the other way.
People obnoxiously defend Jake and Derrick
But first mistake they hammer on DG and forsure Todd. Sometimes even calling him a crack head.
The double standard on here is embarrassing.
Derrick actually had a pretty nice game.
8 points, 4 assists and only one turnover (that ugly one bringing ball up). 0 for 2 from fts.
Quote from: Ners on January 11, 2014, 03:13:44 PM
The issue I have - being in the Dawson/JJJ/Burton club is we have gotten a ton of data as to what Derrick/Jake/Juan are capable of - and let's be real - it hasn't been good. Those guys are vets too. Should be getting much better production out of them
Those of us in the Dawson/Burton/JJJ club have to deal with watching Derrick play 30+ minutes a game, Jake 28+ per game, and Juan - well, he doesn't get as much now.
You'll notice Buzz ran a ton with Derrick, Jake and Juan down the stretch - if it weren't for Mayo - we lose this game against an awful Seton Hall team.
Derrick, as I suspected, looked very shaky against the press - I sure hope we don't see more of that, because its gonna be ugly. Derrick hasn't turned the ball over much cause he's never faced stiff pressure.
ditto
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 11, 2014, 03:21:13 PM
This thread can also go the other way.
People obnoxiously defend Jake and Derrick
But first mistake they hammer on DG and forsure Todd. Sometimes even calling him a crack head.
The double standard on here is embarrassing.
I do get frustrated with DG on defense sometimes i'll admit. But it's just because he could be such a good all around player if he worked a bit harder on D.
Quote from: Ners on January 11, 2014, 03:13:44 PM
The issue I have - being in the Dawson/JJJ/Burton club is we have gotten a ton of data as to what Derrick/Jake/Juan are capable of - and let's be real - it hasn't been good. Those guys are vets too. Should be getting much better production out of them
Those of us in the Dawson/Burton/JJJ club have to deal with watching Derrick play 30+ minutes a game, Jake 28+ per game, and Juan - well, he doesn't get as much now.
You'll notice Buzz ran a ton with Derrick, Jake and Juan down the stretch - if it weren't for Mayo - we lose this game against an awful Seton Hall team.
Derrick, as I suspected, looked very shaky against the press - I sure hope we don't see more of that, because its gonna be ugly. Derrick hasn't turned the ball over much cause he's never faced stiff pressure.
Exactly. .
Quote from: Ners on January 11, 2014, 03:13:44 PM
The issue I have - being in the Dawson/JJJ/Burton club is we have gotten a ton of data as to what Derrick/Jake/Juan are capable of - and let's be real - it hasn't been good. Those guys are vets too. Should be getting much better production out of them
Those of us in the Dawson/Burton/JJJ club have to deal with watching Derrick play 30+ minutes a game, Jake 28+ per game, and Juan - well, he doesn't get as much now.
You'll notice Buzz ran a ton with Derrick, Jake and Juan down the stretch - if it weren't for Mayo - we lose this game against an awful Seton Hall team.
Derrick, as I suspected, looked very shaky against the press - I sure hope we don't see more of that, because its gonna be ugly. Derrick hasn't turned the ball over much cause he's never faced stiff pressure.
Ah, I knew you'd be here with
this after the game. Tell me, where were the other players on the court when we faced the pressure. It was Derrick and Jamil and.....nobody. The other guys have to come back to the ball. Poor coaching or poor execution, take your pick. But of course, John Magic Dawson would have not had any issues whatsoever handling it I am sure, right?
Quote from: Nevada233 on January 11, 2014, 03:19:24 PM
Im my own person if you want to know about me then ask and ill tell you....
Sorry I have more of a life than living on a message board. Just because I dont
Have 60094 posts doesnt make me less of a person than yall
You guys so full of crap. I'll say what I want about whoever I want
I graduated from Marquette in 2002 earned my degree and opinion if you dont like it Ban me. Period
Your post doesn't make much sense. You "have more of a life" and such, but I bet your posts/day in the last month have been pretty high. It's the volume in the short period of time that has me wondering. If you've got "opinion", where was it between now and 2002?
Quote from: weareMU13 on January 11, 2014, 03:24:07 PM
I do get frustrated with DG on defense sometimes i'll admit. But it's just because he could be such a good all around player if he worked a bit harder on D.
Getting frustrated is fine but I see people piling on those two all the time when clearly they are two of our best.
That part doesn't make sense to me.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 11, 2014, 03:21:13 PM
This thread can also go the other way.
People obnoxiously defend Jake and Derrick
But first mistake they hammer on DG and forsure Todd. Sometimes even calling him a crack head.
The double standard on here is embarrassing.
True that some people obnoxiously defend Jake and Derrick. But read TAMU's original post all the way through. He denounces those people as well.
I'd like to know from those who frequent gameday chat (Jay Bee!) if that venue is being weighed down in the same way. If not, it may be time to put down the apple products and flash chat.
Quote from: LloydMooresLegs on January 11, 2014, 03:28:18 PM
I'd like to know from those who frequent gameday chat (Jay Bee!) if that venue is being weighed down in the same way. If not, it may be time to put down the apple products and flash chat.
I frequent the chat. The chat has a MUCH different tone from the game threads.
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 11, 2014, 03:25:40 PM
Your post doesn't make much sense. You "have more of a life" and such, but I bet your posts/day in the last month have been pretty high. It's the volume in the short period of time that has me wondering. If you've got "opinion", where was it between now and 2002?
The same place yours have been. Dont worry about me and what i post because I dont worry about you..
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 11, 2014, 03:26:57 PM
True that some people obnoxiously defend Jake and Derrick. But read TAMU's original post all the way through. He denounces those people as well.
My bad lol. But the point more regarded those two specifically. It would bug me as much if they jumped on JJJ or something.
Its just weird when I see people going to lengths to defend Derrick but first mistake by Todd is end of the world.
While my negativity certainly maxes out during losses. I'll at least get pumped if Juan does happen to make a shot, and get pissed if DG does do one of his lazy plays or botches a easy layup.
Quote from: HaywardsHeroes32 on January 11, 2014, 03:30:54 PM
My bad lol. But the point more regarded those two specifically. It would bug me as much if they jumped on JJJ or something.
Its just weird when I see people going to lengths to defend Derrick but first mistake by Todd is end of the world.
While my negativity certainly maxes out during losses. I'll at least get pumped if Juan does happen to make a shot, and get pissed if DG does do one of his lazy plays or botches a easy layup.
Agreed. I'm happy to have people with differing opinions and have back-and-forths with those people. Like you hayward. good stuff.
Quote from: Nevada233 on January 11, 2014, 03:29:30 PM
The same place yours have been. Dont worry about me and what i post because I dont worry about you..
So did you get banned on another name? Lost your password? Or just take a big break somewhere along the way?
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 11, 2014, 03:33:50 PM
So did you get banned on another name? Lost your password? Or just take a big break somewhere along the way?
Pick whatever helps you sleep at night.
And get back to talking about the game or the topic at hand today.
What I post don't pay my or your bills so what does it matter.
So how about that 2nd half... Nail biter or what?
Quote from: Ners on January 11, 2014, 03:13:44 PM
The issue I have - being in the Dawson/JJJ/Burton club is we have gotten a ton of data as to what Derrick/Jake/Juan are capable of - and let's be real - it hasn't been good. Those guys are vets too. Should be getting much better production out of them
Those of us in the Dawson/Burton/JJJ club have to deal with watching Derrick play 30+ minutes a game, Jake 28+ per game, and Juan - well, he doesn't get as much now.
You'll notice Buzz ran a ton with Derrick, Jake and Juan down the stretch - if it weren't for Mayo - we lose this game against an awful Seton Hall team.
Derrick, as I suspected, looked very shaky against the press - I sure hope we don't see more of that, because its gonna be ugly. Derrick hasn't turned the ball over much cause he's never faced stiff pressure.
Would not blame him he is getting double team, there should be some one down with him either to screen or pass to. Only Jamil is mid court and he is not coming to the ball when pass to. Don't know if they are not doing what they are suppose to or Buzz is playing it that way.
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 11, 2014, 03:10:00 PM
this is a little ironic. i posted this in the game thread before i saw this topic: "question for anyone... are a bunch of the new posters (nevada, mubuzz, chris columbo, river rat, dreadman, sultan of silly) actually new? Or are they old posters with new names? Or did they get kicked off a different board and moved over here? Just curious. They all seem to have very similar opinions."
i'd agree with TAMU here 100%. it's fine to prefer different players or lineups. but some posters go nuts when derrrick, etc make poor plays and discount his successes. Sure, i want derrick more than dawson, but i'm happy when dawson plays well. that's why i wondered about these "new" posters and where they came from
Speaking for myself I am a new poster...is it really that strange to have a group of posters who share similar sentiments??
Quote from: Nevada233 on January 11, 2014, 03:36:02 PM
Pick whatever helps you sleep at night.
And get back to talking about the game or the topic at hand today.
What I post don't pay my or your bills so what does it matter.
So how about that 2nd half... Nail biter or what?
Well, considering that's not the subject of this thread....
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on January 11, 2014, 03:25:14 PM
Ah, I knew you'd be here with this after the game. Tell me, where were the other players on the court when we faced the pressure. It was Derrick and Jamil and.....nobody. The other guys have to come back to the ball. Poor coaching or poor execution, take your pick. But of course, John Magic Dawson would have not had any issues whatsoever handling it I am sure, right?
Well if your PG is confident with the ball - say James, Diener, or Tony Miller - they actually push the ball against the press. Derrick - ultra tentative and easy to trap. Derrick is straight line player. Speed Derrick up and its gonna become turnover city. Derrick brought those traps upon himself.
Just watch and see what happens when Derrick gets sped up, or tries to push the ball in transition - its shaky. The reason we don't have a fast break game this year, is because Derrick isn't good playing at full pace. He's methodical and robotic.
I'm sure Buzz's press break strategy hasn't changed over the years - today, we see full court press on 4 possessions and turn it over 2 times. Not good.
Quote from: Ners on January 11, 2014, 03:53:43 PM
Well is your PG is confident with the ball - say James, Diener, or Tony Miller - they actually push the ball against the press. Derrick - ultra tentative and easy to trap. Derrick is straight line player. Speed Derrick up and its gonna become turnover city. Derrick brought those traps upon himself.
Just watch and see what happens when Derrick gets sped up, or tries to push the ball in transition - its shaky. The reason we don't have a fast break game this year, is because Derrick isn't good playing at full pace. He's methodical and robotic.
I'm sure Buzz's press break strategy hasn't changed over the years - today, we see full court press on 4 possessions and turn it over 2 times. Not good.
Agreed.
The problem with the Derrick/Jake/Juan trio is really not one of them individually. They all have some strengths. However, none of them score and I include Jake in that for the most part. If two or three of them are on the floor at the same time the other team has such an easy time defending. If you only have to defend two guys, well enough said. The freshman all have plenty of freshman faults but they should get more time mixed in just to keep the other team's defense honest.
Great post TAMUEagle.
Like you, I fall into the Derrick/Jake/Juan crowd, but I am happy when the frosh do well. I jumped into Sultan's thread the other day acknowledging the nice game by Dawson against X...and yet after a nice game today by Derrick (8 pts, 4 ast, 1 TO), so many people focus on the 1 TO.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 11, 2014, 08:03:10 PM
Great post TAMUEagle.
Like you, I fall into the Derrick/Jake/Juan crowd, but I am happy when the frosh do well. I jumped into Sultan's thread the other day acknowledging the nice game by Dawson against X...and yet after a nice game today by Derrick (8 pts, 4 ast, 1 TO), so many people focus on the 1 TO.
Ditto. It's really kind of sad that after a pretty good game by him there are still the same cast of characters dumping on the kid. He's the designated whipping boy this year for sure.
I guess for now I am on team Jake/Derrick/Juan--but not by much. JJJ didn't help his case much today, and seeing Jake's block has me so surprised I am probably not capable of honest evaluation. I attribute the frustration to the fact that J/D/J are really role players. If we had someone that stepped up their game this year and turned into a stud we could much more easily accept their individual limitations. I love what I see out of Deonte, and this week Dawson has looked good in his limited minutes. I don't think we can expect much more improvement from J/D/J, and a 1 point win at home over Seton Hall has me thinking that we will be seeing more of the freshmen as the year unfolds.
I am really to the point where I do not feel like posting anymore. I am just sick of our players being attack by our so called fans. I love it when MU wins and I hate it when we lose, but in the end I understand it is just a game. I have never seen Jake or Derrick not try to do their best on the floor. I will always back the players that give 100% no matter what their skill level is.
I am as loyal a fan as there is and have been a ardent supporter since the late 70s. What frustrates me immensely is that Derrick has proven that he can't effectively play PG. We have no chance of winning with him. Watch him consistently bring the ball up the court and he acts like the 3 point line is a brick wall. No penetration, no outside shot, no free throw shooting, limited assists, etc. etc. Let's face reality; we aren't going to the big dance this year. Give Dawson some meaningful minutes and stop pulling him. Derrick is the worst PG we have had in 30+ years.
Quote from: bilsu on January 11, 2014, 08:47:39 PM
I am really to the point where I do not feel like posting anymore. I am just sick of our players being attack by our so called fans. I love it when MU wins and I hate it when we lose, but in the end I understand it is just a game. I have never seen Jake or Derrick not try to do their best on the floor. I will always back the players that give 100% no matter what their skill level is.
Great post. I agree completely. I'm not sure what's more frustrating to me, watching us lose or reading the crap that retards post on here. I need to stay out of the game threads...
Thicken your skin. We don't have the right to complain about a player's performance? What gets us going is the frustration that our best players are benched and the young, highly recruited players are sitting. Our starting backcourt is not D1 worthy. A year ago who would have imagined this backcourt. I realize Vander's loss was unexpected and Duane injury was tragic but we have other options.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on January 11, 2014, 09:16:42 PM
Great post. I agree completely. I'm not sure what's more frustrating to me, watching us lose or reading the crap that retards post on here. I need to stay out of the game threads...
Yeah, wouldn't want to resort to use words like "retard" to affirm my superiority on an internet fan message board! Lighten up, Francis.
I am not in either of these "camps." I just want the players on the floor who are most likely to help us win.
I defend Buzz's decision not to give Dawson big minutes because I am giving our S16-S16-E8 coach the benefit of the doubt that he's seen these kids in practice for hours every day for weeks and weeks and he has a little better idea than I or the rest of us interwebbers do.
But I want Dawson to succeed when he is in there, as I want all of our guys to succeed.
It didn't take a basketball savant to know that PG was going to be our weakness this season unless Duane Wilson could come in as a freshman and be even better than advertised.
Unfortunately, Derrick has been precisely what many of us thought he would be. Am I glad he didn't exceed expectations just so I can say "I told you so"? No I am not. I wish he would have proved me wrong, just as I was thrilled last season when Vander (and eventually Lockett) proved me wrong.
I think it is completely fair for fans to go on a fan chat board and criticize the coach and criticize foolish play, lack of hustle, seeming indifference or other bad displays by the players. But I think most of us are smart enough to know when it's an over-the-top thing. Calling Buzz an idiot or Juan a waste or Derrick the worst player in Marquette history adds nothing to the conversation.
I have tried not to personally criticize Derrick. It is not his fault that his skill set is what it is. It is Buzz's fault -- and maybe the fault of some things beyond Buzz's control (Vander's departure, Duane's injury) -- that Derrick is a 35-minute PG.
I don't have to be in the Dawson-over-Derrick camp to say that I'd like to see Dawson play a little more because the Derrick thing just ain't working. But when Dawson doesn't play a little more, I don't react by wanting to fire the coach as a few here do.
Instead, I actually give Buzz credit for taking Derrick out of the game in the closing minute. It can't be easy for him to do because he loves Derrick and he must know it humiliates Derrick that the starting PG on the preseason Big East favorite can't be on the floor in the exact kind of situation a team needs to be led by its PG. But, loyalty be damned, Buzz wants to win, just as we all do.
I want to enjoy watching the team play, and naturally as a fan/alum my enjoyment level is increased when the team wins. That's the only camp I'm in.
Quote from: Superfan on January 11, 2014, 09:32:13 PM
Thicken your skin. We don't have the right to complain about a player's performance? What gets us going is the frustration that our best players are benched and the young, highly recruited players are sitting. Our starting backcourt is not D1 worthy. A year ago who would have imagined this backcourt. I realize Vander's loss was unexpected and Duane injury was tragic but we have other options.
Read the OP. The point isn't that the players are being criticized, it is that even when they are good, it is overlooked or passed off as luck and the criticism continues. It is to the point were some have posted celebratory posts when one of their disliked player makes a mistake. You gotta take the bad with the good and vice versa.
Quote from: ATL MU Warrior on January 11, 2014, 09:16:42 PM
Great post. I agree completely. I'm not sure what's more frustrating to me, watching us lose or reading the crap that retards post on here. I need to stay out of the game threads...
Wow pretty classy...call people retards because they have views that differ from yours. That's a pretty douchey thing to do. Did you ride the short bus when you were a kid?
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 11, 2014, 10:41:58 PM
Read the OP. The point isn't that the players are being criticized, it is that even when they are good, it is overlooked or passed off as luck and the criticism continues. It is to the point were some have posted celebratory posts when one of their disliked player makes a mistake. You gotta take the bad with the good and vice versa.
I think part of the issue is the pro Derrick crowd exaggerates his performance and spins it in a more positive light than what is reality. The he had a good game today analysis...is that really accurate? Honestly watching the game today would you say he played good today? I would say he played fair today. I don't think he was a net positive or negative, just average. To think everyone on a message board is going to be positive all the time with the year we are having is absurd.
Quote from: mubuzz on January 11, 2014, 11:27:59 PM
I think part of the issue is the pro Derrick crowd exaggerates his performance and spins it in a more positive light than what is reality. The he had a good game today analysis...is that really accurate? Honestly watching the game today would you say he played good today? I would say he played fair today. I don't think he was a net positive or negative, just average. To think everyone on a message board is going to be positive all the time with the year we are having is absurd.
With all due respect, the anti-Derrick crowd does the same for Dawson. He was 2-7 the other night with one rebound and two assists, and consistently let Christian get to the hoop for easy layups...and some people were ready to anoint him as the starter. They kept talking about the threes that "almost went in." If Derrick had the same type of game, you'd be ready to stick him at the end of the bench. Heck - Derrick usually does better than that and you're ready to stick him on the bench.
I want Derrick to succeed...and I want John to succeed. I gave John credit for the improvement he made the other day despite the defensive breakdowns...and yet today when Derrick played a really nice game, most people focus on the 1 TO he had instead of the positives, and conclude things like his game was "just average."
Try giving both players credit when they do something well.
Quote from: weareMU13 on January 11, 2014, 03:24:07 PM
I do get frustrated with DG on defense sometimes i'll admit. But it's just because he could be such a good all around player if he worked a bit harder on D.
I have been critical of DG a lot. For very similar reasons as you. He has the talent to be great, but often times doesn't give the effort to reach potential. When he has great all around games I speak well of him, when he doesn't give the effort I critique his effort.
I agree with TAMU 100%, I am thrilled when those I am critical of do well.
I really don't like it when people are critical of Juan/Jake/Derrick, because they have offered MU a lot this year and have provided us with our best possibility to win. They also are guys that give 100% of their effort every night. All players have faults, to criticize the ones playing at 100% effort and focus is unfair.
I was thrilled when Dawson stepped up and argued that he clearly outplayed Derrick (for one night), because he gave everything when he was out there and did his job.
I really love Mayo and think he can bring a lot to the team, just he hasn't always been 100% there as a team player. That is a legitimate reason to critique him.
It is the type of criticism many have used that offends me. Calling players that are working hard worthless, should never see the floor...saying you hate them, ... etc has no value. Saying that a player has a bad attitude, needs to work harder and get his act together, when they are not playing 100% is valid criticism.
I have taken the wait and see approach with Derrick this year and gave him the bennefit of the doubt moxt of the time. However, after watching todays game its pretty clear Dawson should get his shot. Derrick is good defensivly but he isnt good enough to where hes playing as many minutes as he does. I still like Juan and Jake has grown on me so long as he keeps shooting but Derrick has regressed since the Arizona state game.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 11, 2014, 11:47:20 PM
With all due respect, the anti-Derrick crowd does the same for Dawson. He was 2-7 the other night with one rebound and two assists, and consistently let Christian get to the hoop for easy layups...and some people were ready to anoint him as the starter. They kept talking about the threes that "almost went in." If Derrick had the same type of game, you'd be ready to stick him at the end of the bench. Heck - Derrick usually does better than that and you're ready to stick him on the bench.
I want Derrick to succeed...and I want John to succeed. I gave John credit for the improvement he made the other day despite the defensive breakdowns...and yet today when Derrick played a really nice game, most people focus on the 1 TO he had instead of the positives, and conclude things like his game was "just average."
Try giving both players credit when they do something well.
First, Dawson was 2 of 6 against X, with the 6th shot coming at the buzzer from 30 feet. Secondly, no, Dawson did not allow Christian to repeatedly drive and score on him. Third, why people get on Derrick and not Dawson, is because we've gotten 16 games to see what Derrick can do in 30 minutes of play, and the "performance" is consistently about 3.5 ppg, 3 assists, on 50% FT shooting and 30% shooting from the field, and with a career mark of making 2, 3-point field goals in his almost 3 year career...and the team scuffling to a 9-7 record, while just narrowly escaping lowly Seton Hall at home.
Derrick has had every chance in the world to show what he's capable of, and its been awful. I posted how Mayo's stats this year, are virtually identical to what Vander did last year. We return ALL other players except Lockett and Cadougan - and are we really going to say Lockett is the guy who is the difference between this year's team and last year's team?? Not a chance. The difference is Derrick playing Cadougan's minutes.
This is Buzz's most veteran team he's ever had at MU - more returning letter winners/years than ever before, and yet it is his worst team. The unique talent that Gardner is, is essentially being wasted as a senior.
Quote from: Ners on January 12, 2014, 09:04:45 AM
First, Dawson was 2 of 6 against X, with the 6th shot coming at the buzzer from 30 feet. Secondly, no, Dawson did not allow Christian to repeatedly drive and score on him. Third, why people get on Derrick and not Dawson, is because we've gotten 16 games to see what Derrick can do in 30 minutes of play, and the "performance" is consistently about 3.5 ppg, 3 assists, on 50% FT shooting and 30% shooting from the field, and with a career mark of making 2, 3-point field goals in his almost 3 year career...and the team scuffling to a 9-7 record, while just narrowly escaping lowly Seton Hall at home.
Derrick has had every chance in the world to show what he's capable of, and its been awful. I posted how Mayo's stats this year, are virtually identical to what Vander did last year. We return ALL other players except Lockett and Cadougan - and are we really going to say Lockett is the guy who is the difference between this year's team and last year's team?? Not a chance. The difference is Derrick playing Cadougan's minutes.
This is Buzz's most veteran team he's ever had at MU - more returning letter winners/years than ever before, and yet it is his worst team. The unique talent that Gardner is, is essentially being wasted as a senior.
The box score against X shows Dawson as 2-7, not 2-6.
Christian had three blow-by layups in the latter portion of the first half...after Derrick got his second foul, and while being guarded by Dawson.
That's not the point of this thread though- it's that even with Dawson's modest performance the other night, many of us in the Derrick/Jake/Juan camp gave Dawson credit for his gradual improvements. Yet when Derrick played a better game yesterday than he'd been playing previously - most notably, taking (and making) jumpers that he'd previously been passing up - the Dawson/JJJ/Deonte crowd does nothing to acknowledge the improvement...and instead seems intent on focusing on the negatives - like the 1 TO he made in 36 minutes of running the offense.
Give credit where credit is due, even for modest improvements. We did it when Dawson showed improvement the other night - why is it so hard for you to give credit when Derrick shows improvement?
Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 12, 2014, 09:33:08 AM
The box score against X shows Dawson as 2-7, not 2-6.
Christian had three blow-by layups in the latter portion of the first half...after Derrick got his second foul, and while being guarded by Dawson.
That's not the point of this thread though- it's that even with Dawson's modest performance the other night, many of us in the Derrick/Jake/Juan camp gave Dawson credit for his gradual improvements. Yet when Derrick played a better game yesterday than he'd been playing previously - most notably, taking (and making) jumpers that he'd previously been passing up - the Dawson/JJJ/Deonte crowd does nothing to acknowledge the improvement...and instead seems intent on focusing on the negatives - like the 1 TO he made in 36 minutes of running the offense.
Give credit where credit is due, even for modest improvements. We did it when Dawson showed improvement the other night - why is it so hard for you to give credit when Derrick shows improvement?
I'm not lobbying for one player or the other but context is important.
He was 2-7. One miss buzzer beater end of 1st half on a forced shot (almost went in). Another miss buzzer beater end of 2nd half. So in actual offense driven shots 2-5, both 3-pointers. That is a very solid offensive performance, especially because the other 3 misses were all in and out.
More importantly, the defense. You keep saying Dawson bad because of layups, Derrick good because of 3 pointers. That is ridiculous and doesn't look at the context.
If when Dawson was in, the defensive design was to put ball pressure on and then have defensive help, he was playing fine defense when Christon was able to drive. He ended up scoring because his help defense was not there on time. If Buzz then realizes that we can't pressure Christon, because he is able to beat the help, you switch and deny drives.
Denying drives is what most of the 2nd half did. That opens up nice 3 opportunities. Which he made. Both strategies failed tremendously well. But both defenders would also have been playing equally well for the designed defense. Unless you know from Buzz what the exact game plan was when each player was in, you have no metric to compare defensive ability from that one game.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 12, 2014, 09:33:08 AM
The box score against X shows Dawson as 2-7, not 2-6.
Christian had three blow-by layups in the latter portion of the first half...after Derrick got his second foul, and while being guarded by Dawson.
That's not the point of this thread though- it's that even with Dawson's modest performance the other night, many of us in the Derrick/Jake/Juan camp gave Dawson credit for his gradual improvements. Yet when Derrick played a better game yesterday than he'd been playing previously - most notably, taking (and making) jumpers that he'd previously been passing up - the Dawson/JJJ/Deonte crowd does nothing to acknowledge the improvement...and instead seems intent on focusing on the negatives - like the 1 TO he made in 36 minutes of running the offense.
Give credit where credit is due, even for modest improvements. We did it when Dawson showed improvement the other night - why is it so hard for you to give credit when Derrick shows improvement?
Fair enough - I was happy to an extent that Derrick took and made a few of the perimeter shots - baseline and just off the elbow. It's better he shoot out there than not shoot at all, to the extent that defenses might* start to guard him a little more on the perimeter and that would help this team.
Having said that, I'm not going to lie - There is a good part of me that wants to see Derrick fail - as I'd hope with that, Buzz would eventually make the move that needs to be made - Dawson for 25 Derrick for 15. I know that sounds crappy to almost root against one of our guys, yet I feel that the only way this team is going to achieve anything decent this season, is if Buzz makes the switch. If he doesn't, I suspect we will be going to the NIT - which never in a million years coming into this season would I have thought we'd even be having a conversation about..
Quote from: Ners on January 12, 2014, 10:50:24 AM
Fair enough - I was happy to an extent that Derrick took and made a few of the perimeter shots - baseline and just off the elbow. It's better he shoot out there than not shoot at all, to the extent that defenses might* start to guard him a little more on the perimeter and that would help this team.
Having said that, I'm not going to lie - There is a good part of me that wants to see Derrick fail - as I'd hope with that, Buzz would eventually make the move that needs to be made - Dawson for 25 Derrick for 15. I know that sounds crappy to almost root against one of our guys, yet I feel that the only way this team is going to achieve anything decent this season, is if Buzz makes the switch. If he doesn't, I suspect we will be going to the NIT - which never in a million years coming into this season would I have thought we'd even be having a conversation about..
I'll give you credit for being honest about wanting to see Derrick fail...but it's horribly disappointing - mind-boggling actually - to hear any MU fan say they want to see any MU player fail.
The kid has been busting his a$$ for three years for Marquette and has always given 100% on the court. He has never gotten in trouble or represented Marquette negatively. To hear a "fan" say they hope such a kid fails just blows me away.
I want to see Derrick succeed, I want to see John succeed, I want to see Marquette succeed. Your statement about wanting to see Derrick fail speaks volumes.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 12, 2014, 11:57:33 AM
I'll give you credit for being honest about wanting to see Derrick fail...but it's horribly disappointing - mind-boggling actually - to hear any MU fan say they want to see any MU player fail.
The kid has been busting his a$$ for three years for Marquette and has always given 100% on the court. He has never gotten in trouble or represented Marquette negatively. To hear a "fan" say they hope such a kid fails just blows me away.
I want to see Derrick succeed, I want to see John succeed, I want to see Marquette succeed. Your statement about wanting to see Derrick fail speaks volumes.
I don't think anyone wanted to see him fail initially. However after 3 and a half years of mediocre play, we have come to the realization he is not the man for the job. It's obvious that Many of us feel that he is not who we want running our team and by hoping he fails it could hopefully lead to change. Fair or not that is the reality of the situation. I wish no ill will towards him as he seems like a great representative of Marquette. I think a majority of the anti Derrick crowd have big aspirations for Marquette basketball and we know he will not get us there so we cling to the hope for someone else to become our PG. Personal attacks on his character are stupid, but discussing his basketball shortcomings is fair game just as it is with any other player.
I think Derrick should start, but I also think Dawson should play more.
Quote from: GooooMarquette on January 12, 2014, 11:57:33 AM
I'll give you credit for being honest about wanting to see Derrick fail...but it's horribly disappointing - mind-boggling actually - to hear any MU fan say they want to see any MU player fail.
The kid has been busting his a$$ for three years for Marquette and has always given 100% on the court. He has never gotten in trouble or represented Marquette negatively. To hear a "fan" say they hope such a kid fails just blows me away.
I want to see Derrick succeed, I want to see John succeed, I want to see Marquette succeed. Your statement about wanting to see Derrick fail speaks volumes.
You make a lot of good points. I probably should reconsider my statements and views, because as you point out Derrick is a great kid and represents MU well, and is just a kid. He certainly is doing his best, and I probably shouldn't put my personal desires to see the team play better above supporting one of our athletes fully. It would be great if he can take a big step up, and along with that, see the team make big strides. Having said that, however, I do also believe there is being successful and a valuable contributor to a team, in a lesser role. I guess at the end of the day, I just feel Derrick would be a great backup PG, who will give you 10-15 minutes of solid play - and to try to extract perhaps something that simply isn't there - 30+ minutes of playing time, and a major contribution - in hopes of better results - may also be doing the kid a disservice - as it is causing me and I'm sure many other fans frustration.
I've generally been one of the most supportive fans posting here, and have been accused of wearing the blue and gold goggles...and I've probably taken the negativity on Derrick too far. Will try to remember the words my Mom once taught me - If you don't have something nice to say, don't say it all. Easier said than done, however, when Marquette basketball is my absolute passion.
Quote from: mubuzz on January 12, 2014, 12:26:53 PM
I don't think anyone wanted to see him fail initially. However after 3 and a half years of mediocre play, we have come to the realization he is not the man for the job. It's obvious that Many of us feel that he is not who we want running our team and by hoping he fails it could hopefully lead to change. Fair or not that is the reality of the situation. I wish no ill will towards him as he seems like a great representative of Marquette. I think a majority of the anti Derrick crowd have big aspirations for Marquette basketball and we know he will not get us there so we cling to the hope for someone else to become our PG. Personal attacks on his character are stupid, but discussing his basketball shortcomings is fair game just as it is with any other player.
I understand the frustration. As an ardent supporter of Derrick (and someone who would love for Dawson to succeed), I am also frustrated by his lack of ability. It is what it is. IMO, however, RIGHT NOW, Dawson doesn't seem to be able to be any better overall (I don't think it's a question Dawson is likely a better scorer). I understand that you may want Derrick to fail big so that change will occur (be it Dawson, Mayo, whoever), but wouldn't the better (for the team and players) mentality be to want Buzz to realize Derrick's shortcomings and adjust accordingly rather than Derrick to fail (and thus hurt MU bball even more)?
Quote from: Ners on January 12, 2014, 12:37:15 PM
You make a lot of good points. I probably should reconsider my statements and views, because as you point out Derrick is a great kid and represents MU well, and is just a kid. He certainly is doing his best, and I probably shouldn't put my personal desires to see the team play better above supporting one of our athletes fully. It would be great if he can take a big step up, and along with that, see the team make big strides. Having said that, however, I do also believe there is being successful and a valuable contributor to a team, in a lesser role. I guess at the end of the day, I just feel Derrick would be a great backup PG, who will give you 10-15 minutes of solid play - and to try to extract perhaps something that simply isn't there - 30+ minutes of playing time, and a major contribution - in hopes of better results - may also be doing the kid a disservice - as it is causing me and I'm sure many other fans frustration.
I've generally been one of the most supportive fans posting here, and have been accused of wearing the blue and gold goggles...and I've probably taken the negativity on Derrick too far. Will try to remember the words my Mom once taught me - If you don't have something nice to say, don't say it all. Easier said than done, however, when Marquette basketball is my absolute passion.
Peace, bro.
Go Marquette!
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 12, 2014, 12:56:56 PM
I understand the frustration. As an ardent supporter of Derrick (and someone who would love for Dawson to succeed), I am also frustrated by his lack of ability. It is what it is. IMO, however, RIGHT NOW, Dawson doesn't seem to be able to be any better overall (I don't think it's a question Dawson is likely a better scorer). I understand that you may want Derrick to fail big so that change will occur (be it Dawson, Mayo, whoever), but wouldn't the better (for the team and players) mentality be to want Buzz to realize Derrick's shortcomings and adjust accordingly rather than Derrick to fail (and thus hurt MU bball even more)?
For most of the season, I've stayed out of this debate. I don't know what goes on in practice and I'm guessing most posters in this room don't either.
What I will say is this: We win as a team. We lose as a team. If Derrick can't shoot, somebody should be picking up for him. I generally don't see that. To pin our current problems on Derrick is JUST WRONG. He may not be what we, Buzz or even he wants to be, but at some point we have to acknowledge that the team isn't getting us to where we need to be.
Yesterday against Seton Hall was a good example. Derrick wasn't expecting a press and got trapped into turnovers. The thing that was evident is as the situation developed, where was the rest of the team? Did anyone have the innate sense to rush up and help him out? I didn't see it on my TV, if they did.
We had a great first half yesterday and then held on for dear life. You knew that there would be adjustments by the Pirates for the second half, but we came out looking very average and barely able to finish. If their guard hadn't had a brain cramp, who knows. The key word though, is "we." There is some cohesiveness that is missing among our team and I'm not sure a component switch-out will make THAT much difference. Not the way things have gone so far.
Quote from: mubuzz on January 12, 2014, 12:26:53 PM
I don't think anyone wanted to see him fail initially. However after 3 and a half years of mediocre play, we have come to the realization he is not the man for the job.
So this is what Derrick is up against: Some are blaming him for mediocre play a full year before he even stepped foot on campus!
Quote from: mubuzz on January 12, 2014, 12:26:53 PM
I don't think anyone wanted to see him fail initially. However after 3 and a half years of mediocre play, we have come to the realization he is not the man for the job. It's obvious that Many of us feel that he is not who we want running our team and by hoping he fails it could hopefully lead to change. Fair or not that is the reality of the situation. I wish no ill will towards him as he seems like a great representative of Marquette. I think a majority of the anti Derrick crowd have big aspirations for Marquette basketball and we know he will not get us there so we cling to the hope for someone else to become our PG. Personal attacks on his character are stupid, but discussing his basketball shortcomings is fair game just as it is with any other player.
I think the majority of the anti-Derrick crowd base it on the hope that Dawson "could be" better and not on whether or not that he is. If Derrick plays bad enough then Buzz will have to play Dawson and Marquette will turn it around because Dawson will be the second coming. Other than the fact Buzz prefers playing seniors vs. than winning games there isn't anything that shows Dawson is in fact "better." I do not believe that he is otherwise he would be playing more because I believe Buzz does want to win.
Here are my thoughts on Dawson:
- The is nothing which shows the offense runs better with him in. He has taken 20 shots of which 2/3 are from three. This indicates he isn't a drive and dish guy but that someone else creating a shot for him.
- His 2P%, 3P%, and FT% doesn't indicate that he is better offensively. Though he has only shot 2 FT all year which indicates again he isn't a driver
- For as much people talking about Derrick not handling the pressure defense, Dawson hasn't either. In games he has played, the ball is usually not in his hands when the ball is brought up the court.
At the end of the day, I think Derrick Wilson shooting better/more is just as good an outcome as Dawson stepping into the D1 point guard and doing it. I don't think that would satisfy the anti-derrick crowd.
I think there are big gaps on this team including Derrick, Gardner, Mayo, and Jamil Wilson. I don't agree that you can say Vander for Mayo was an even trade and everyone else is the same so it has to be Derrick's fault.
Juan? No. Burton? No. JJJ? No.
Play Thomas and Mayo together as much as possible. Best two shooters. Mayo is a threat to slash. Spreads the floor out best to make up for any deficiencies of Derrick/Dawson.
Quote from: Aughnanure on January 12, 2014, 07:58:13 PM
Juan? No. Burton? No. JJJ? No.
Play Thomas and Mayo together as much as possible. Best two shooters. Mayo is a threat to slash. Spreads the floor out best to make up for any deficiencies of Derrick/Dawson.
I agree. I like Thomas and Mayo on the floor together. Think it gives us our best chance to win. But with that lineup Jamil and Gardner/Otule need to box out and be rebounding beasts.
Quote from: BallBoy on January 12, 2014, 07:25:14 PM
I think the majority of the anti-Derrick crowd base it on the hope that Dawson "could be" better and not on whether or not that he is. If Derrick plays bad enough then Buzz will have to play Dawson and Marquette will turn it around because Dawson will be the second coming. Other than the fact Buzz prefers playing seniors vs. than winning games there isn't anything that shows Dawson is in fact "better." I do not believe that he is otherwise he would be playing more because I believe Buzz does want to win.
Here are my thoughts on Dawson:
- The is nothing which shows the offense runs better with him in. He has taken 20 shots of which 2/3 are from three. This indicates he isn't a drive and dish guy but that someone else creating a shot for him.
- His 2P%, 3P%, and FT% doesn't indicate that he is better offensively. Though he has only shot 2 FT all year which indicates again he isn't a driver
- For as much people talking about Derrick not handling the pressure defense, Dawson hasn't either. In games he has played, the ball is usually not in his hands when the ball is brought up the court.
At the end of the day, I think Derrick Wilson shooting better/more is just as good an outcome as Dawson stepping into the D1 point guard and doing it. I don't think that would satisfy the anti-derrick crowd.
I think there are big gaps on this team including Derrick, Gardner, Mayo, and Jamil Wilson. I don't agree that you can say Vander for Mayo was an even trade and everyone else is the same so it has to be Derrick's fault.
What you seem to have a hard time grasping is the relevance of the sample size pertaining to the two players. It is highly unlikely you are going to see a significant upward trajectory from Derrick as we have 2.5 years of data, and a ton of minutes this year. Dawson, has only been in the program for 6 months, and his numbers are virtually on par with Derrick. And, it is really hard to put up any kind of numbers when half of your 104 minutes came in 2-3 minute stints, and in those stints being played off the ball bizarrely. My hypothesis simply is that Dawson's ceiling is higher, and it should be explored at least 20 minutes a game, as the "fall off" if any, is razor thin.
Quote from: Ners on January 12, 2014, 08:30:50 PM
What you seem to have a hard time grasping is the relevance of the sample size pertaining to the two players. It is highly unlikely you are going to see a significant upward trajectory from Derrick as we have 2.5 years of data, and a ton of minutes this year. Dawson, has only been in the program for 6 months, and his numbers are virtually on par with Derrick. And, it is really hard to put up any kind of numbers when half of your 104 minutes came in 2-3 minute stints, and in those stints being played off the ball bizarrely. My hypothesis simply is that Dawson's ceiling is higher, and it should be explored at least 20 minutes a game, as the "fall off" if any, is razor thin.
No. I have a much larger sample size than you want to include because it doesn't help your narrative. How many freshman play significant minutes their freshman year? Not many. How many come from a small schools in the middle of nowhere? Even fewer. How many come from players that were not heavily recruit and were not in the Top 100? Even fewer. How many practice minutes has Buzz seen and said he would prefer to ride with Derrick? That sample size is much larger than the 104 minutes.
I get that you feel that there is little downside but you don't have a sample size which shows you how bad that could get and until you do then Dawson is always going to be the man. I have also seen Dawson in game with actual facts which you have failed to evaluate him with because you have been proven to exaggerate his accomplishments. The only fact you base your evaluation is that he is not Derrick Wilson.
Quote from: BallBoy on January 12, 2014, 09:09:35 PM
No. I have a much larger sample size than you want to include because it doesn't help your narrative. How many freshman play significant minutes their freshman year? Not many. How many come from a small schools in the middle of nowhere? Even fewer. How many come from players that were not heavily recruit and were not in the Top 100? Even fewer. How many practice minutes has Buzz seen and said he would prefer to ride with Derrick? That sample size is much larger than the 104 minutes.
I get that you feel that there is little downside but you don't have a sample size which shows you how bad that could get and until you do then Dawson is always going to be the man. I have also seen Dawson in game with actual facts which you have failed to evaluate him with because you have been proven to exaggerate his accomplishments. The only fact you base your evaluation is that he is not Derrick Wilson.
It sure didn't get super bad against Xavier when Dawson got 17 minutes. Only guy on team other than Burton with a non-negative +/-. Derrick was -9 in the Xavier game, Dawson was 0. Team played better when Dawson ran the point. Period. And in his first real action on the road in a tough place to play, against a good team. Dawson hardly collapsed. Okay, so it's 1 game. I've seen 13 clunkers from Derrick already this year.
But hey, what do I know. I really need to re-evaluate the conclusions I've drawn from Derrick's 450 minutes of play this year. The team is doing great. Our opposition doesn't even guard our PG. Our head coach says we play 4 on 5 with him in the game. And he plays him 30+ minutes a game. Sure seems to be a tough road to hoe playing 4 on 5 for 75% of a basketball game.
We damn near beat X on the road, but come home and eek out a 1 point victory against a depleted Seton Hall team - in a game where Mayo goes off for 18?
Quote from: Nevada233 on January 11, 2014, 03:36:02 PM
Pick whatever helps you sleep at night.
And get back to talking about the game or the topic at hand today.
What I post don't pay my or your bills so what does it matter.
So how about that 2nd half... Nail biter or what?
I know this is a message board, but it amazes me some posters actually graduated from MU. Is it that difficult to use actual sentence structure, grammar and punctuation? Most 6th graders can write better than some of the posters on here. I know some will bitch about my rant, but it's hard to read some of this and think you went to the same university I graduated from as well. Oh, and this was typed on an iPhone so don't use that as an excuse.
Quote from: Lighthouse 84 on January 12, 2014, 09:39:05 PM
I know this is a message board, but it amazes me some posters actually graduated from MU. Is it that difficult to use actual sentence structure, grammar and punctuation? Most 6th graders can write better than some of the posters. I know some will bitch about my rant, but it's hard to read some of this and think you went to the same university I graduates from as well.
I imagine a tongue in cheek sense of humor. ;D
Quote from: Ners on January 12, 2014, 09:41:16 PM
I imagine a tongue in cheek sense of humor. ;D
iPhone Ners.
I think this thread turned into couples' counseling. But I think it worked....on the reasonable posters. The peanut gallery will be back next game and nothing will have changed most likely
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on January 13, 2014, 10:41:59 AM
I think this thread turned into couples' counseling. But I think it worked....on the reasonable posters. The peanut gallery will be back next game and nothing will have changed most likely
I agree. Hopefully you guys come around one of these games. ;D
I know u guys dislike me because I speak my mind but i have to say the worst starting pg in the history of the Big East conference has to be Derrick Wilson.
Quote from: Dreadman24 on January 13, 2014, 11:30:42 AM
I know u guys dislike me because I speak my mind but i have to say the worst starting pg in the history of the Big East conference has to be Derrick Wilson.
No we dislike you because you have devolved into nothing but a f*cking troll.
Worst starting backcourt in the big east has to be Joke Thomas and Derrick Wilson
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 13, 2014, 11:32:47 AM
No we dislike you because you have devolved into nothing but a f*cking troll.
Im more of a fan than u will ever be sir
Quote from: The Sultan of Syncopation on January 13, 2014, 11:32:47 AM
No we dislike you because you have devolved into nothing but a f*cking troll.
my f*cking car is decked out in Marquette gold and blue. Man come again
if anyone don't like my comments do me a favor and IGNORE me
^Ok ;D
Resisting....urge....to feed....the troll