From my source diamond stone is not thrilled about Marquette's new conference
And from another source
Ellenson is most likely headed to MN
You are kind of a "sky is falling" kind of guy aren't you? The recruiting story has yet to be written for 2014 and 2015.
Hmmmm....
What I personally find interesting is that last year during recruiting season our future was totally uncertain through the summer and in the run up to November signings. If there was any year recruiting should have suffered, that would have been a good candidate. Oh wait, 2013 was the best incoming class MU has had in about 40 years.
Quote from: jsglow on June 26, 2013, 09:00:15 AM
What I personally find interesting is that last year during recruiting season our future was totally uncertain through the summer and in the run up to November signings. If there was any year recruiting should have suffered, that would have been a good candidate. Oh wait, 2013 was the best incoming class MU has had in about 40 years.
Very good point.
Sure our conference might not be as solid as it was 3-4 years ago recruiting wise, but we are in much better shape than a year ago when we had no idea where we'd be or what our conference would look like.
You ever think that your "sources" are people that know how psycho you are about MU hoops and just wanna see you flip your lid over something completely unsubstantiated?
I call BS.
High School kids don't follow in who is in what conference.
Quote from: bradley center bat on June 26, 2013, 09:42:37 AM
I call BS.
High School kids don't follow in who is in what conference.
I suspect most highly sought recruits have a lot more knowledge of what teams are in what conference than you imply.
If your supposition is true about Conference teams influencing decisions why would any kid pick Memphis, Gonzaga, Utah, etc.
Quote from: bradley center bat on June 26, 2013, 09:42:37 AM
I call BS.
High School kids don't follow in who is in what conference.
Oh, they know. Very much so.
Quote from: jsglow on June 26, 2013, 09:00:15 AM
What I personally find interesting is that last year during recruiting season our future was totally uncertain through the summer and in the run up to November signings. If there was any year recruiting should have suffered, that would have been a good candidate. Oh wait, 2013 was the best incoming class MU has had in about 40 years.
The ground work was laid before the conference blew up.
F-it. Shut down the program. Go to D3. There is no future. ::)
Quote from: bilsu on June 26, 2013, 10:24:18 AM
The ground work was laid before the conference blew up.
The conference blew up in the fall of 2011 when Pitt, Syracuse and West Virginia announced they'd be leaving.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 26, 2013, 10:04:20 AM
Oh, they know. Very much so.
Then explain Memphis, Gonzaga, and UNLV.
Hard to explain outliers.
Vegas is located near a hotbed of talent
Gonzaga recruits overseas/canadian/and under appreciated guys
Memphis: talent hot bed
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on June 26, 2013, 08:25:21 AM
From my source diamond stone is not thrilled about Marquette's new conference
And from another source
Ellenson is most likely headed to MN
Let's be honest; I'm not
thrilled about the new big east either. Did I prefer the original BEast? Obviously.
Its no longer the extreme powerhouse conference, However, I'm happy with the new conference. I feel it will be competitive with every conference out there, and time will tell.
If you believe kids don't recognize what conference a school is in and what competition it will bring then you are just plain ignorant. Of course they do. You don't think it was a draw to say you will play Syracuse? You will play SJU at MSG? You will get to play UConn and Pitt and Georgetown...those are kids dreams..to play against teams they have grown up watching..come on meow.
AND..
Memphis has a track record of being a hotbed of talent that sends tons of players to the NBA. Lots of kids go early to the NBA from Memphis as well...a big draw for a kid who is putting the NBA 1 and school 2
Gonzaga does not get a ton of highly sought after talent from the states. They recruit well internationally, play a lot of high majors pre-conference, and again have been sending plenty of talent to the NBA.
UNLV again has a storied history and also still sends a lot of kids to the NBA...and is 15 minutes from the strip.
Im okay with it, but if 5 star players are going to look at UW over Marquette because of a conference than I think we are in trouble
QuoteMemphis has a track record of being a hotbed of talent that sends tons of players to the NBA. Lots of kids go early to the NBA from Memphis as well...a big draw for a kid who is putting the NBA 1 and school 2
Gonzaga does not get a ton of highly sought after talent from the states. They recruit well internationally, play a lot of high majors pre-conference, and again have been sending plenty of talent to the NBA.
UNLV again has a storied history and also still sends a lot of kids to the NBA...and is 15 minutes from the strip.
Its amazing the low regard some of you have for Marquette's basketball program. Marquette has one of the hottest coaches in Buzz, has sent multiple players to the NBA in the last few years, has facilities that compete with anyone and has a fairly storied history itself.
Yes the new Big East is weaker. Just because a RUMOR was heard saying that we are going to miss out on a highly regarded in state recruit doesn't mean that our program is in trouble. Have you seen the list of names were still in on for 2014-2015?
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on June 26, 2013, 11:24:29 AM
Im okay with it, but if 5 star players are going to look at UW over Marquette because of a conference than I think we are in trouble
I don't think it would be a killer, but it would hurt a lot. Miss out on both local Top 10 players? Very disappointing. Have 1 go to your in-state rival? Ouch.
QuoteI don't think it would be a killer, but it would hurt a lot. Miss out on both local Top 10 players? Very disappointing. Have 1 go to your in-state rival? Ouch.
As long as we keep beating Bucky and continue to go deep in the tourney I don't care where our players come from or what they are ranked out of high school.
Quote from: damuts222 on June 26, 2013, 11:36:07 AM
Its amazing the low regard some of you have for Marquette's basketball program. Marquette has one of the hottest coaches in Buzz, has sent multiple players to the NBA in the last few years, has facilities that compete with anyone and has a fairly storied history itself.
Yes the new Big East is weaker. Just because a RUMOR was heard saying that we are going to miss out on a highly regarded in state recruit doesn't mean that our program is in trouble. Have you seen the list of names were still in on for 2014-2015?
Actually, I think a lot of people here have a very realistic view of MU. We love the school, but understand its limitations.
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on June 26, 2013, 11:01:48 AM
Gonzaga recruits overseas/canadian/and under appreciated guys
Not to mention, that when all is said and done, they really haven't done all that much in the NCAA tournament.
Quote from: Terror Skink on June 26, 2013, 12:03:31 PM
Not to mention, that when all is said and done, they really haven't done all that much in the NCAA tournament.
Though better than Marquette over the past 20 years
QuoteActually, I think a lot of people here have a very realistic view of MU. We love the school, but understand its limitations.
You'd swear we were demoted to CUSA again. This is the first year of the new Big East, only time will tell if it has any affect on Marquette. I feel that I also have a realistic view of Marquette. Butler made it to two consecutive national championships, why not MU? Who says you need a top 10 or 20 player to make it to the top, is there a blueprint I'm missing.
Quote from: keefe on June 26, 2013, 12:07:17 PM
Though better than Marquette over the past 20 years
Disagree.
Marquette....one final four....two elite eights...four sweet sixteens....13 appearances
Gonzaga....no final fours...one elite eight...five sweet sixteens...16 appearances
I'll take Marquette's record every time.
Man people are acting like MU is the only school out there that loses in state talent to blue chips schools. It happens ALL the time even to some of the best programs. I get that people will be bummed if MU doesn't land Looney or Stone, but there's no shame if those guys land at the likes of Duke and Kentucky. Not to mention the instate talent of Wilson, Burton, Nowkowiak, and what appears to be a very solid lean from Cohen. And you could even argue that commitments from 4 year players like Wilson and Burton will be more valuable than possible 1 and done talents like Stone and Looney.
Quote from: Terror Skink on June 26, 2013, 12:18:41 PM
Disagree.
Marquette....one final four....two elite eights...four sweet sixteens....13 appearances
Gonzaga....no final fours...one elite eight...five sweet sixteens...16 appearances
I'll take Marquette's record every time.
Awfully strange math you're using...must be a liberal arts major...
Using your own logic then, even with the double counting, then Marquette has done very little in the NCAA Tournament, too.
I guess I always assume that MU won't get any top 10 recruits - if it were to happen of course I'll be fine with it but it would hurt to see one go to UW over MU, until then I'm assuming neither gets commits from top 10 players
Quote from: keefe on June 26, 2013, 12:29:01 PM
Awfully strange math you're using...must be a liberal arts major...
Using your own logic then, even with the double counting, then Marquette has done very little in the NCAA Tournament, too.
First of all, while I am double counting, I am doing so consistently.
Second, Marquette has done quite a bit in the NCAA tournament historically. You are the one that threw up the 20 year timeframe. Do you want me to compare Marquette v. Gonzaga all time? Because Marquette will look decidedly better then.
It's not hurting other schools:
Georgetown has landed 2 top 100 players in the 2014 class via scouts rankings 1 top 50
Villanova has landed a top 100 player in 2014
Xavier has a top 100 player for 2014 (Espn rankings)
Quote from: hoyasincebirth on June 26, 2013, 12:35:12 PM
It's not hurting other schools:
Georgetown has landed 2 top 100 players in the 2014 class via scouts rankings 1 top 50
Villanova has landed a top 100 player in 2014
Xavier has a top 100 player for 2014 (Espn rankings)
And my guess is that MU will have at least one top 100 player when all is said and done...and wouldn't doubt we have more than that.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 26, 2013, 10:32:29 AM
The conference blew up in the fall of 2011 when Pitt, Syracuse and West Virginia announced they'd be leaving.
Yes, but they still would of been playing in Big East this year. Also MU was still in a conference with Notre Dame, Louisville, Cincy, Uconn and Memphis when the players verbally committed.
Quote from: Terror Skink on June 26, 2013, 12:33:38 PM
First of all, while I am double counting, I am doing so consistently.
Second, Marquette has done quite a bit in the NCAA tournament historically. You are the one that threw up the 20 year timeframe. Do you want me to compare Marquette v. Gonzaga all time? Because Marquette will look decidedly better then.
But we are speaking of the past 20 years and by comparison then, applying your logic, Marquette has also done very little in the NCAA Tournament.
Quote from: keefe on June 26, 2013, 12:07:17 PM
Though better than Marquette over the past 20 years
That's debatable. What kind of seeds would we have gotten playing that layup conference schedule every year. Before the season starts they are 16-0 which is a nice luxury to have...has led to some over seeding for them.
Quote from: Terror Skink on June 26, 2013, 12:36:48 PM
And my guess is that MU will have at least one top 100 player when all is said and done...and wouldn't doubt we have more than that.
I'd be happy landing two top 100 guys on the rise like Cohen and Harris.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 26, 2013, 12:49:32 PM
That's debatable. What kind of seeds would we have gotten playing that layup conference schedule every year. Before the season starts they are 16-0 which is a nice luxury to have...has led to some over seeding for them.
Hyperbolic.
Quote from: icheights on June 26, 2013, 11:24:21 AM
If you believe kids don't recognize what conference a school is in and what competition it will bring then you are just plain ignorant. Of course they do. You don't think it was a draw to say you will play Syracuse? You will play SJU at MSG? You will get to play UConn and Pitt and Georgetown...those are kids dreams..to play against teams they have grown up watching..come on meow.
AND..
Memphis has a track record of being a hotbed of talent that sends tons of players to the NBA. Lots of kids go early to the NBA from Memphis as well...a big draw for a kid who is putting the NBA 1 and school 2
Gonzaga does not get a ton of highly sought after talent from the states. They recruit well internationally, play a lot of high majors pre-conference, and again have been sending plenty of talent to the NBA.
UNLV again has a storied history and also still sends a lot of kids to the NBA...and is 15 minutes from the strip.
"Excuse me sir, are you saying meow?"
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 26, 2013, 12:58:56 PM
Hyperbolic.
I don't think so. At most, two teams in the WCC worth anything, and usually it's a pretty big divide between Gonzaga and team b.
They know every year they're going to win the conference or at worse finish second. They know that the most losses they will have is 2 or 3, and often it is 0 or 1. They are a very solid program, but helped out considerably by a weak league.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 26, 2013, 10:04:20 AM
Oh, they know. Very much so.
Chico is spot on. I can speak of College Football. When my son and his buddies were being recruited they were very aware of conference reputation, rivalries, travel locations, and coed quality. My son would have had more PT earlier had he signed with USAFA or Idaho but the opportunity to play UDub, USC, UCLA, et al in a BCS Conference was compelling enough to accept being practice and special teams meat for the first two years. And as much as I would like to believe his primary consideration was academics the reality is that it was secondary to football.
One of his friends was the #1 rated HS QB in the country. This kid had offers from FL State, Oklahoma, Michigan, LSU, Cal, Tennessee, UDub, and Wazzou but signed with BYU for personal reasons. His buddies razzed him mercilessly about the MWC and Weber State coeds vs those at Florida State. Interestingly, Jake ended up transferring to Chico's alma mater to play for Charlie Weiss.
Conference, location, rivalries, and coeds do matter to 17 year old males when selecting between offers. A lot.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 26, 2013, 12:58:56 PM
Hyperbolic.
Yes, but the point is valid given Few's 178-22 conference record over the last 14 seasons.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 26, 2013, 12:58:56 PM
Hyperbolic.
Is that that really expensive chamber Crean bought where you float in water?
Quote from: LAZER on June 26, 2013, 01:16:47 PM
Yes, but the point is valid given Few's 178-22 conference record over the last 14 seasons.
Since Roy Williams and Bill Self have registered similar records in Big 12 play at KU one could argue thusly about the weakness of that conference too.
Assuming the conference perception makes a difference the question becomes whether we are better off staying at 10 teams or adding more teams that raise the conference's overall strength? The conference would be stronger if you added VCU, St. Louis, Wichita St and Gonzaga. However, I have no way of knowing if that would make recruits more open to playing in new conference. However, it would expand the conference foot print to 4 more states. Somewhere on these boards it was posted that Wichita St was interested in joining. We all know St. Louis would like to join. I am not sure it means anything, but I found it interesting that St. Louis and Wichita St. just agreed to play each other. My gut feeling is the conference will eventually go to 12 with the addition of St. Louis and Wichita St.
Quote from: keefe on June 26, 2013, 12:47:11 PM
But we are speaking of the past 20 years and by comparison then, applying your logic, Marquette has also done very little in the NCAA Tournament.
No because Marquette has a history to fall back on.
Quote from: bilsu on June 26, 2013, 02:08:31 PM
Assuming the conference perception makes a difference the question becomes whether we are better off staying at 10 teams or adding more teams that raise the conference's overall strength? The conference would be stronger if you added VCU, St. Louis, Wichita St and Gonzaga. However, I have no way of knowing if that would make recruits more open to playing in new conference. However, it would expand the conference foot print to 4 more states. Somewhere on these boards it was posted that Wichita St was interested in joining. We all know St. Louis would like to join. I am not sure it means anything, but I found it interesting that St. Louis and Wichita St. just agreed to play each other. My gut feeling is the conference will eventually go to 12 with the addition of St. Louis and Wichita St.
St. Louis, maybe.
Wichita St. and VCU don't fit the profile.
Quote from: LAZER on June 26, 2013, 12:57:01 PM
I'd be happy landing two top 100 guys on the rise like Cohen and Harris.
Harris is not yet top 100.
Quote from: keefe on June 26, 2013, 01:26:16 PM
Since Roy Williams and Bill Self have registered similar records in Big 12 play at KU one could argue thusly about the weakness of that conference too.
One could argue it, but it wouldn't get them very far given the huge difference in success Kansas has had in the tournament relative to Gonzaga.
Quote from: LittleMurs on June 26, 2013, 02:34:45 PM
Harris is not yet top 100.
He's in Scout's updated rankings and I think he'll move up in others as well. What I think obviously mean nothing, but I'm just basing that off of the recent buzz around him.
Quote from: LittleMurs on June 26, 2013, 02:34:45 PM
Harris is not yet top 100.
#76 Scout
http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=9&c=4&pid=88&yr=2014&cfg=bb
Rivals hasn't updated since March.
ESPN's Reggie Rankin said Harris just missed their top 100 and could end up there in the final rankings.
From what I have read we have Cohen all but locked up, and we are in good standing with Harris. Cohen is a likely consensus top 100, and Harris is on the rise and around the top 100. I would be happy landing two borderline top 100 players along with a possibly another player or two. Who knows, maybe Cohen and Harris will both shoot up in the rankings just as our 2013 recruits did and be around the top 50. However, I would still be very disappointed if we failed to land either Looney (already lost him) or Stone (if KW's sources are correct, ::) ). Buzz has done a great job turning unheralded guys into stars, and we have seen plenty of success the past few years, but getting a 5 star top 10 player such as Looney or Stone would likely push us over the top and into Final Four territory. This year's team looks very solid again and has the potential to climb into the top 10, and I expect nothing less than another Sweet Sixteen. Part of the reason I was mad at Vander for leaving was due to the fact that with him we are a top 10 preseason team with a very good chance at a Final Four. It's his decision in the end, so I can't fault him for making it. Getting to a F4 would make more 5 stars look at us, no matter what conference we are in.
http://insider.espn.go.com/college-sports/recruiting/basketball/mens/story/_/id/9420472/2014-big-east-basketball-recruiting-primer
Marquette Golden Eagles
Who they have: No 2014 recruits so far.
"Who they want: The 2013 class brought Marquette's backcourt of the future, with three ESPN 100 prospects in Duane Wilson, JaJuan Johnson and Deonte Burton, so conventional wisdom is that the Eagles would focus on their interior spots in 2014. While they could certainly use a true big man, the reality is that their 2013 class is filled with enough versatility to allow them to add the best available prospects in 2014. Shooting guard Ahmed Hill falls under that best-available category, while centers Sean O'Mara and Johnathon Wilkins would both help out up front.
Storyline to watch: Head coach Buzz Williams himself is the story, and specifically his growing reputation among recruits as someone they want to play for. If he can capitalize and deliver another strong class, it will be just the latest step in Marquette's budding national momentum.
Bold prediction: Don't be surprised to see two ESPN 100-caliber additions join the Eagles in 2014, one along the front line and another versatile wing.
Overall recruiting trend: Up. The "Buzz" is all positive about Williams these days, and recruits are taking notice. The 2013 class was his best since taking over at Marquette, and he shows no signs of slowing down in 2014."
According to Adam Finkelstein, all of the Big East teams are doing pretty well recruiting.
Nice article MtAiry....
Remember the default mode for most Scoopers is somewhere between "mind-numbing worry" and "hysterical panic."
Quote from: keefe on June 26, 2013, 12:07:17 PM
Though better than Marquette over the past 20 years
That's like a Japanese lager bomb.
Quote from: MtAiryGoldenEagle on June 26, 2013, 03:18:06 PM
According to Adam Finkelstein, all of the Big East teams are doing pretty well recruiting.
Pfttt. I'll stick with KW's sources, thank you very much.
Quote from: Golden Avalanche on June 26, 2013, 03:35:39 PM
That's like a Japanese lager bomb.
Perhaps after you have lived in both Japan and Germany, speak either language and have first hand knowledge of their respective lagers then perhaps you can have some meaningful perspective from which to be so dismissive.
But MU managed to land another 4 star forward. Just imagine what MU could do in a land of pink ponies where there was no shifting conference landscapes.
Quote from: keefe on June 26, 2013, 01:26:16 PM
Since Roy Williams and Bill Self have registered similar records in Big 12 play at KU one could argue thusly about the weakness of that conference too.
I don't think so, because KU has proven it out of conference as well as other areas more consistently than Gonzaga has. Plus, other schools in the Big12 have done very well, whereas it is hard to envision anyone other than perhaps St. Mary's being of any quality in the WCC for most of those years Gonzaga has dominated. I realize BYU is now part of the conference, but that is a very recent undertaking.
We really shouldn't be comparing KU's domination in the Big 12 to what Gonzaga has done. Strength of schedule so much different, various successes by Texas, Texas A&M (when they were in the league), Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, Baylor, Missouri, Kansas State, Iowa State....it just doesn't come close to comparing to USD, St. Mary's, LMU, Pepperdine, Portland, Santa Clara, USF and BYU (just the last few years). Night and day IMO.
Harris is well inside the top 100 now....Scout just updated and he came in at 76 and Bossi just said he will be inside the top 75 when Rivals updates tomorrow.
Quote from: MUFanatic4Life on June 26, 2013, 03:08:21 PM
From what I have read we have Cohen all but locked up, and we are in good standing with Harris. Cohen is a likely consensus top 100, and Harris is on the rise and around the top 100. I would be happy landing two borderline top 100 players along with a possibly another player or two. Who knows, maybe Cohen and Harris will both shoot up in the rankings just as our 2013 recruits did and be around the top 50. However, I would still be very disappointed if we failed to land either Looney (already lost him) or Stone (if KW's sources are correct, ::) ). Buzz has done a great job turning unheralded guys into stars, and we have seen plenty of success the past few years, but getting a 5 star top 10 player such as Looney or Stone would likely push us over the top and into Final Four territory. This year's team looks very solid again and has the potential to climb into the top 10, and I expect nothing less than another Sweet Sixteen. Part of the reason I was mad at Vander for leaving was due to the fact that with him we are a top 10 preseason team with a very good chance at a Final Four. It's his decision in the end, so I can't fault him for making it. Getting to a F4 would make more 5 stars look at us, no matter what conference we are in.
Quote from: MUFanatic4Life on June 26, 2013, 03:08:21 PM
From what I have read we have Cohen all but locked up, and we are in good standing with Harris. Cohen is a likely consensus top 100, and Harris is on the rise and around the top 100. I would be happy landing two borderline top 100 players along with a possibly another player or two. Who knows, maybe Cohen and Harris will both shoot up in the rankings just as our 2013 recruits did and be around the top 50. However, I would still be very disappointed if we failed to land either Looney (already lost him) or Stone (if KW's sources are correct, ::) ). Buzz has done a great job turning unheralded guys into stars, and we have seen plenty of success the past few years, but getting a 5 star top 10 player such as Looney or Stone would likely push us over the top and into Final Four territory. This year's team looks very solid again and has the potential to climb into the top 10, and I expect nothing less than another Sweet Sixteen. Part of the reason I was mad at Vander for leaving was due to the fact that with him we are a top 10 preseason team with a very good chance at a Final Four. It's his decision in the end, so I can't fault him for making it. Getting to a F4 would make more 5 stars look at us, no matter what conference we are in.
There are no "must-get" recruits. No single player will make or break MU's program. MU isn't getting Looney...and they may not land Stone. But guess what? Buzz will find talented, capable players who want to be at MU. Getting all worked up over one player is only a recipe for heartache.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 26, 2013, 06:35:47 PM
I don't think so, because KU has proven it out of conference as well as other areas more consistently than Gonzaga has. Plus, other schools in the Big12 have done very well, whereas it is hard to envision anyone other than perhaps St. Mary's being of any quality in the WCC for most of those years Gonzaga has dominated. I realize BYU is now part of the conference, but that is a very recent undertaking.
We really shouldn't be comparing KU's domination in the Big 12 to what Gonzaga has done. Strength of schedule so much different, various successes by Texas, Texas A&M (when they were in the league), Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, Baylor, Missouri, Kansas State, Iowa State....it just doesn't come close to comparing to USD, St. Mary's, LMU, Pepperdine, Portland, Santa Clara, USF and BYU (just the last few years). Night and day IMO.
Well, it's all moot once Gonzaga joins the Big East!
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 26, 2013, 10:04:20 AM
Oh, they know. Very much so.
They might think they know. Right now they are hearing about the bad PR of "The Big East is over as we know it". I must have heard it over 100 times on TV.
Quote from: mupanther on June 26, 2013, 07:18:09 PM
They might think they know. Right now they are hearing about the bad PR of "The Big East is over as we know it". I must have heard it over 100 times on TV.
The new conference is going to take a few years to earn some cred, that's just a way of life. Some good coaches, good programs with recent quality success will continue to help in the short run. Yes, there will be those out there that will negatively recruit against the conference, that's a way of life. I'm not too worried about the recruiting, quite frankly. I do believe the original statement that recruits don't know about conferences is silly....they definitely do in hoops, hockey, baseball, football and many other sports as well.
Quote from: icheights on June 26, 2013, 11:24:21 AM
If you believe kids don't recognize what conference a school is in and what competition it will bring then you are just plain ignorant.
They can name the heavyweights. Most would say about the ACC, Duke & UNC and struggle with the rest.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 26, 2013, 07:21:19 PM
The new conference is going to take a few years to earn some cred, that's just a way of life. Some good coaches, good programs with recent quality success will continue to help in the short run. Yes, there will be those out there that will negatively recruit against the conference, that's a way of life. I'm not too worried about the recruiting, quite frankly. I do believe the original statement that recruits don't know about conferences is silly....they definitely do in hoops, hockey, baseball, football and many other sports as well.
Correct! This will pass, once the football season starts and the American Conference (AAC) gets playing.
Great to hear MU & Nova got nice pick ups for 2014!
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on June 26, 2013, 11:24:29 AM
Im okay with it, but if 5 star players are going to look at UW over Marquette because of a conference than I think we are in trouble
Yeah we might start losing out on all the 5 star recruits we've so commonly picked up.
Oh wait...
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 26, 2013, 06:35:47 PM
I don't think so, because KU has proven it out of conference as well as other areas more consistently than Gonzaga has. Plus, other schools in the Big12 have done very well, whereas it is hard to envision anyone other than perhaps St. Mary's being of any quality in the WCC for most of those years Gonzaga has dominated. I realize BYU is now part of the conference, but that is a very recent undertaking.
We really shouldn't be comparing KU's domination in the Big 12 to what Gonzaga has done. Strength of schedule so much different, various successes by Texas, Texas A&M (when they were in the league), Oklahoma State, Oklahoma, Baylor, Missouri, Kansas State, Iowa State....it just doesn't come close to comparing to USD, St. Mary's, LMU, Pepperdine, Portland, Santa Clara, USF and BYU (just the last few years). Night and day IMO.
Yeah. I mean, the Big XII really has kinda been a mediocre and sometimes overrated conference (a reason, I have always thought, to why KU has had trouble in the tourney under both Self and Williams - not soo much anymore) but come on. The WCC is such a poor conference (unfortunately). And BYU is what, only 2 years in?
Im not a recruitnik because the transfer rate is so high and it's tough for me to get excited about every single recruit. That said, if this conference is off to a bad start, can anybody tell me how Pitt, UConn, UL, and Cuse are doing now that they are in new conferences? If the ACC has become such a huge draw, are their top schools doing even better....? Too early to tell?
Quote from: keefe on June 26, 2013, 12:07:17 PM
Though better than Marquette over the past 20 years
Disagree. Marquette has a final 4. Tied with Gonzaga for Elite 8 appearances.
We are a bigger draw than Gonzaga.
Gonzaga lived off it's 1999 tourney run, and it's goofy name that was able to sell a ton of jerseys
Quote from: tower912 on June 26, 2013, 06:16:54 PM
But MU managed to land another 4 star forward. Just imagine what MU could do in a land of pink ponies where there was no shifting conference landscapes.
Change MU to Buzz and your statement would be correct.
So getting back to the topic of the thread. We have gotten 2 commits since the announcement of the new conference. One a top 75 SF/PF, the other a top 60 PG/2G. We're 2/2. No evidence whatsoever that the conference is hurting recruiting, except the evidence that exists in badger fans' fantasies.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on June 27, 2013, 08:52:27 AM
So getting back to the topic of the thread. We have gotten 2 commits since the announcement of the new conference. One a top 75 SF/PF, the other a top 60 PG/2G. We're 2/2. No evidence whatsoever that the conference is hurting recruiting, except the evidence that exists in badger fans' fantasies and sky-is-falling Scoopers.
Fixed.
Quote from: Atticus on June 27, 2013, 02:20:36 AM
Im not a recruitnik because the transfer rate is so high and it's tough for me to get excited about every single recruit. That said, if this conference is off to a bad start, can anybody tell me how Pitt, UConn, UL, and Cuse are doing now that they are in new conferences? If the ACC has become such a huge draw, are their top schools doing even better....? Too early to tell?
21 of the top 50 (using ESPN's list) have made commitments. Only 1 to the new Big East (#47 Issac Copeland)
Of the teams you called out:
--UL landed ESPN #22 JaQuan Lyle, #28 Quentin Snyder and #53 Shaqquan Aaron
--SU landed ESPN #7 Chris McCullough
--UConn (not going to the ACC) has landed ESPN #17 Daniel Hamilton.
--Pitt has no ESPN top 100 recruits yet.
As an aside, the team that seems to be leveraging its new conference situation is Maryland. They have top top 50 2014 commits.
Quote from: The Equalizer on June 27, 2013, 10:46:21 AM
21 of the top 50 (using ESPN's list) have made commitments. Only 1 to the new Big East (#47 Issac Copeland)
Of the teams you called out:
--UL landed ESPN #22 JaQuan Lyle, #28 Quentin Snyder and #53 Shaqquan Aaron
--SU landed ESPN #7 Chris McCullough
--UConn (not going to the ACC) has landed ESPN #17 Daniel Hamilton.
--Pitt has no ESPN top 100 recruits yet.
As an aside, the team that seems to be leveraging its new conference situation is Maryland. They have top top 50 2014 commits.
Maryland's been strong on the recruiting trail since hiring Turgeon. He landed Alex Len just after getting the job and landed a couple top 100 players (including #30 overall) in the class of 2012. Also, they were a close second to Kentucky for the Harrison twins.
Quote from: The Equalizer on June 27, 2013, 10:46:21 AM
21 of the top 50 (using ESPN's list) have made commitments. Only 1 to the new Big East (#47 Issac Copeland)
Of the teams you called out:
--UL landed ESPN #22 JaQuan Lyle, #28 Quentin Snyder and #53 Shaqquan Aaron
--SU landed ESPN #7 Chris McCullough
--UConn (not going to the ACC) has landed ESPN #17 Daniel Hamilton.
--Pitt has no ESPN top 100 recruits yet.
As an aside, the team that seems to be leveraging its new conference situation is Maryland. They have top top 50 2014 commits.
I think the real question is how does this compare to previous years?
Quote from: The Equalizer on June 27, 2013, 10:46:21 AM
21 of the top 50 (using ESPN's list) have made commitments. Only 1 to the new Big East (#47 Issac Copeland)
Of the teams you called out:
--UL landed ESPN #22 JaQuan Lyle, #28 Quentin Snyder and #53 Shaqquan Aaron
--SU landed ESPN #7 Chris McCullough
--UConn (not going to the ACC) has landed ESPN #17 Daniel Hamilton.
--Pitt has no ESPN top 100 recruits yet.
As an aside, the team that seems to be leveraging its new conference situation is Maryland. They have top top 50 2014 commits.
Why cut it off at top 50? Did it not fit your argument using top 100?
Quote from: Jajuannaman on June 27, 2013, 11:13:39 AM
Why cut it off at top 50? Did it not fit your argument using top 100?
Seven players among those ranked 51-100 on ESPN have committed, two of them to Big East programs (one to Villanova, one to Xavier).
That's obviously not including Malek Harris, who's expected to be in the top 100 in the final rankings (and already is top 100 in Scout and will be soon in Rivals).
FWIW, 33 of Scout's top 100 have committed, four of them to Big East schools. for comparison's sake, the Big ? has seven commitments, six of them to either Maryland or Ohio State. The Pac 12 has four. The Big 12 has none. The SEC has three. The AAC has one.
td;lr: No reason to panic over Big East recruiting. Already landed as many or more Scout top 100 players than the Pac 12, Big 12, SEC and AAC.
Don't interrupt 84's narrative like that.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on June 27, 2013, 11:13:39 AM
Why cut it off at top 50? Did it not fit your argument using top 100?
I think we've seen enough evidence that the type of players that excel come from the top 50.
Vander Blue, Jamil Wilson, Junior Cadougan were top 50
Juan Anderson, Jamail Jones, Erik Williams were 50-100
If the goal is to feel good about quantity, use top 100.
If the goal is to compare quality, top 50 is a better measure in my opinion.
Quote from: tower912 on June 27, 2013, 11:28:38 AM
Don't interrupt 84's narrative like that.
I'd love to hear your case that you seen no qualitative or performance difference between recruits ranked 1 to 50 and those ranked 51 to 100.
Quote from: The Equalizer on June 27, 2013, 11:32:40 AM
I think we've seen enough evidence that the type of players that excel come from the top 50.
Vander Blue, Jamil Wilson, Junior Cadougan were top 50
Juan Anderson, Jamail Jones, Erik Williams were 50-100
If the goal is to feel good about quantity, use top 100.
If the goal is to compare quality, top 50 is a better measure in my opinion.
Steve Taylor was in the 80's brah.
Quote from: The Equalizer on June 27, 2013, 11:32:40 AM
I think we've seen enough evidence that the type of players that excel come from the top 50.
Vander Blue, Jamil Wilson, Junior Cadougan were top 50
Juan Anderson, Jamail Jones, Erik Williams were 50-100
If the goal is to feel good about quantity, use top 100.
If the goal is to compare quality, top 50 is a better measure in my opinion.
Could you at least pretend to be objective?
Cameron Clark, Trey Zeigler and Mychal Parker were top 50 in 2010.
Allen Crabbe, CJ Fair and Tim Hardway Jr. were top 51-100.
See ... Marquette should only recruit players outside the top 50. Three players proves it.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on June 27, 2013, 08:52:27 AM
So getting back to the topic of the thread. We have gotten 2 commits since the announcement of the new conference. One a top 75 SF/PF, the other a top 60 PG/2G. We're 2/2. No evidence whatsoever that the conference is hurting recruiting, except the evidence that exists in badger fans' fantasies.
I think there is plenty of evidence that there
may be an effect. Last year, if you include McKay, we signed 4 players ranked higher than these two commits. Furthermore, if you look at who the top 50 recruits have listed as considering on Scout practically no one ( White) are listed as considering MU. Now this does not mean it is the new conference, but it is interesting. On the flip side UW is included on two top 10 player's lists and White's, but is not listed by anyone else so the Big 10 conference is not getting players to beat down UW's door either.
Quote from: The Equalizer on June 27, 2013, 11:32:40 AM
I think we've seen enough evidence that the type of players that excel come from the top 50.
Vander Blue, Jamil Wilson, Junior Cadougan were top 50
Juan Anderson, Jamail Jones, Erik Williams were 50-100
If the goal is to feel good about quantity, use top 100.
If the goal is to compare quality, top 50 is a better measure in my opinion.
Steve Taylor, jerel McNeal, Wesley Mathews. I understand your frustrations with the lower four stars (that's why I don't always trust the rankings) but don't forget that Erik Williams and Juan Anderson both had injuries that significantly hampered their development
Quote from: bilsu on June 27, 2013, 11:54:18 AM
I think there is plenty of evidence that there may be an effect. Last year, if you include McKay, we signed 4 players ranked higher than these two commits. Furthermore, if you look at who the top 50 recruits have listed as considering on Scout practically no one ( White) are listed as considering MU. Now this does not mean it is the new conference, but it is interesting. On the flip side UW is included on two top 10 player's lists and White's, but is not listed by anyone else so the Big 10 conference is not getting players to beat down UW's door either.
Last year we got a top 30-60 guy at every position except center. It's normal to have a drop off from that type of class as playing time won't be all that readily available. That we've already gotten a verbal from a top 75 and rising recruit and seem poised to land another top 100 guy (Cohen) is bullish to me. Post Al pre Buzz the best we could hope for were feast/famine recruiting cycles. No more.
Quote from: The Equalizer on June 27, 2013, 11:32:40 AM
I think we've seen enough evidence that the type of players that excel come from the top 50.
Vander Blue, Jamil Wilson, Junior Cadougan were top 50
Juan Anderson, Jamail Jones, Erik Williams were 50-100
If the goal is to feel good about quantity, use top 100.
If the goal is to compare quality, top 50 is a better measure in my opinion.
Jae Crowder, Jimmy Butler, Lazar Hayward, Davante Gardner, Dwyane Wade feel that life outside the top 50 isn't too bad. But go on with your narrative.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on June 27, 2013, 12:41:29 PM
Last year we got a top 30-60 guy at every position except center. It's normal to have a drop off from that type of class as playing time won't be all that readily available. That we've already gotten a verbal from a top 75 and rising recruit and seem poised to land another top 100 guy (Cohen) is bullish to me. Post Al pre Buzz the best we could hope for were feast/famine recruiting cycles. No more.
I think it is normal that there is a drop off in commitments after a good recruiting year, but is it normal to have no players considering you?
Quote from: bilsu on June 27, 2013, 12:48:55 PM
I think it is normal that there is a drop off in commitments after a good recruiting year, but is it normal to have no players considering you?
What are you talking about? #72 Harris (committed), #90 Cohen (halfway in the bag), #32 Okonoboh considering us, #60 Ahmed Hill considering us, among others. Not sure where this is going
Quote from: Jajuannaman on June 27, 2013, 01:00:36 PM
What are you talking about? #72 Harris (committed), #90 Cohen (halfway in the bag), #32 Okonoboh considering us, #60 Ahmed Hill considering us, among others. Not sure where this is going
Granted not a great year by any means, but if we constantly get 60, 72, 90 and big around 110 I'll be pretty damn happy.
I mean how many players on our team in two years will not be top 100 players?
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on June 27, 2013, 01:25:11 PM
Granted not a great year by any means, but if we constantly get 60, 72, 90 and big around 110 I'll be pretty damn happy.
I mean how many players on our team in two years will not be top 100 players?
Three years ago we would be ecstatic with a class like that, and now some are saying (not you) that it's not good enough to get a class like that IMMEDIATELY following our best class (on paper) in 30+ years? This is maddening.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on June 27, 2013, 01:30:39 PM
Three years ago we would be ecstatic with a class like that, and now some are saying (not you) that it's not good enough to get a class like that IMMEDIATELY following our best class (on paper) in 30+ years? This is maddening.
Not besmirching this class, it is damn fine, but what about the class that included Key, Logterman, and McIlvane. It was pretty good. Or was that 30 years ago. Time does go by fast when you are having so much fun. And then there was the class of the three musketeers.
It is too early to say this new conference could be hurting recruiting. Better to wait a couple years.
Quote from: willie warrior on June 27, 2013, 02:33:41 PM
Not besmirching this class, it is damn fine, but what about the class that included Key, Logterman, and McIlvane. It was pretty good. Or was that 30 years ago. Time does go by fast when you are having so much fun. And then there was the class of the three musketeers.
That's an interesting convo. The first trio was before my time, but I think this class compares favorably against the other 3 amigos. I only say that as recruits and ranking. The 3 amigos production will be a different story and very hard to match, especially without the time available right away.
Quote from: MUFanatic4Life on June 26, 2013, 03:08:21 PM
However, I would still be very disappointed if we failed to land either Looney (already lost him) or Stone (if KW's sources are correct, ::) ). Buzz has done a great job turning unheralded guys into stars, and we have seen plenty of success the past few years, but getting a 5 star top 10 player such as Looney or Stone would likely push us over the top and into Final Four territory.
I wonder how many fans of however many programs over the years have said: "If only we can land so-and-so, we'll go to the Final Four." Too bad they only let four teams go to the Final Four every year!
Quote from: willie warrior on June 27, 2013, 02:36:02 PM
It is too early to say this new conference could be hurting recruiting. Better to wait a couple years.
You gotta wait 5 years bro.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 27, 2013, 11:26:47 AM
Seven players among those ranked 51-100 on ESPN have committed, two of them to Big East programs (one to Villanova, one to Xavier).
That's obviously not including Malek Harris, who's expected to be in the top 100 in the final rankings (and already is top 100 in Scout and will be soon in Rivals).
FWIW, 33 of Scout's top 100 have committed, four of them to Big East schools. for comparison's sake, the Big ? has seven commitments, six of them to either Maryland or Ohio State. The Pac 12 has three. The Big 12 has one (#100 to Colorado). The SEC has three. The AAC has one.
td;lr: No reason to panic over Big East recruiting. Already landed more Scout top 100 players than the Pac 12, Big 12 and SEC.
Colorado is in the Pac-12.
Also, all of these conferences (cept the Big XII) have more teams in them than the Big East. Some by as much as 40% more.
Quote from: Aughnanure on June 27, 2013, 04:00:36 PM
Colorado is in the Pac-12.
Also, all of these conferences (cept the Big XII) have more teams in them than the Big East. Some by as much as 40% more.
D'oh.
Edited.
SEC except for Kentucky, Florida, and 1 other rotating, and Pac 12 have sucked the past few years. It would be no shock to me if the new Big East is as good as those two or better right off the bat. Big 12 after KU is usually nothing great either. Since we'll basically be the UK/FL, KU, or UCLA of the NBE (along with Georgetown) for the foreseeable future, our recruiting will not be hurt one iota. May even be helped.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on June 27, 2013, 04:38:10 PM
SEC except for Kentucky, Florida, and 1 other rotating, and Pac 12 have sucked the past few years. It would be no shock to me if the new Big East is as good as those two or better right off the bat. Big 12 after KU is usually nothing great either. Since we'll basically be the UK/FL, KU, or UCLA of the NBE (along with Georgetown) for the foreseeable future, our recruiting will not be hurt one iota. May even be helped.
Kansas State is almost always very good at hoops. Iowa State and West Virginia have had plenty of outstanding seasons. Texas made the tourney 14 straight years (and 17 of 18) before struggling last season. Oklahoma State, Oklahoma and Baylor all have had very nice stretches. Losing Mizzou and a down year in 2012-13 makes them look worse than they really are as a basketball league.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on June 27, 2013, 02:37:57 PM
That's an interesting convo. The first trio was before my time, but I think this class compares favorably against the other 3 amigos. I only say that as recruits and ranking. The 3 amigos production will be a different story and very hard to match, especially without the time available right away.
If they make it to the second weekend once in four years then the production would be even better. I loved the three amigos but they lacked what it took to get out of the first weekend.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on June 27, 2013, 04:48:07 PM
If they make it to the second weekend once in four years then the production would be even better. I loved the three amigos but they lacked what it took to get out of the first weekend.
They didn't lack anything but a big man who could occasionally score, health and a decent second-round matchup.
It would insane to think that team wouldn't have moved on to the Sweet Sixteen with second-round games against Murray State and Butler instead of Stanford (with the Lopez twins) and Mizzou.
Quote from: MU82 on June 27, 2013, 04:46:03 PM
Kansas State is almost always very good at hoops. Iowa State and West Virginia have had plenty of outstanding seasons. Texas made the tourney 14 straight years (and 17 of 18) before struggling last season. Oklahoma State, Oklahoma and Baylor all have had very nice stretches. Losing Mizzou and a down year in 2012-13 makes them look worse than they really are as a basketball league.
Phine, phair enouph. MU & Georgetown will be the KU/UT consistent cream, Villanova & Creighton will be the WVU/KSt. of the new league.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on June 27, 2013, 11:37:48 AM
Steve Taylor was in the 80's brah.
Yep, and he averaged 3 ppg/2.1 rpg average, as compared to a 9.9 ppg 4.1 rpg average for the eveven top 50 Small Forwards in his class. 3x the points, 2x the rebounds. I think that's signficant.
Meanwhile, your argument is that he'll get significantly better next season. Fine--he might. But it hasn't happened yet. Also keep in mind that
at the same time in their respective careers, we all thought Jamail Jones, Erik Williams and Juan Anderson would get signficantly better in THEIR second seasons. It didn't happen.
Why did I choose the top 50 instead of the top 100 in my inital post:
I'll use RSCI data so I'm not accused of using a single data point as an outlier. Since he's been at MU, Buzz has brought in 8 top 100 recruits:
--#40 Jamil Wilson
--#47 Junior Cadougan
--#48 Vander Blue
--#67 Erik Williams
--#73 Jeronne Maymon
--#74 Jamail Jones
--#81 Juan Anderson
--#82 Steve Taylor
Maybe I missed someone--if I did I'm sure you'll be more than happy to correct me. And I do hope including every one of Buzz's top 100 recruits is objective enough for Pakuni.
Sorry you disagree with me on my observation that the top 50 players are genreally better than the next 50.
At best, at this point you could argue that Taylor might buck the trend. And then 20% of Buzz's 51 to 100 will be considered successful. Compared to 100% of the top fifty.
It's not set in stone, but it's definitely better to have higher rated recruits. That said, you need Juan Anderson type guys who progress over 4-years to provide leadership and toughness. You don't want 12 top 50 guys and have a lot of resentment over playing time.
Quote from: The Equalizer on June 27, 2013, 05:25:35 PM
Yep, and he averaged 3 ppg/2.1 rpg average, as compared to a 9.9 ppg 4.1 rpg average for the eveven top 50 Small Forwards in his class. 3x the points, 2x the rebounds. I think that's signficant.
Meanwhile, your argument is that he'll get significantly better next season. Fine--he might. But it hasn't happened yet. Also keep in mind that at the same time in their respective careers, we all thought Jamail Jones, Erik Williams and Juan Anderson would get signficantly better in THEIR second seasons. It didn't happen.
Why did I choose the top 50 instead of the top 100 in my inital post:
I'll use RSCI data so I'm not accused of using a single data point as an outlier. Since he's been at MU, Buzz has brought in 8 top 100 recruits:
--#40 Jamil Wilson
--#47 Junior Cadougan
--#48 Vander Blue
--#67 Erik Williams
--#73 Jeronne Maymon
--#74 Jamail Jones
--#81 Juan Anderson
--#82 Steve Taylor
Maybe I missed someone--if I did I'm sure you'll be more than happy to correct me. And I do hope including every one of Buzz's top 100 recruits is objective enough for Pakuni.
Sorry you disagree with me on my observation that the top 50 players are genreally better than the next 50.
At best, at this point you could argue that Taylor might buck the trend. And then 20% of Buzz's 51 to 100 will be considered successful. Compared to 100% of the top fifty.
Victor Oladipo and Otto Porter say hi, and that life outside the top 100 is tolerable.
Quote from: The Equalizer on June 27, 2013, 05:25:35 PM
Yep, and he averaged 3 ppg/2.1 rpg average, as compared to a 9.9 ppg 4.1 rpg average for the eveven top 50 Small Forwards in his class. 3x the points, 2x the rebounds. I think that's signficant.
Meanwhile, your argument is that he'll get significantly better next season. Fine--he might. But it hasn't happened yet. Also keep in mind that at the same time in their respective careers, we all thought Jamail Jones, Erik Williams and Juan Anderson would get signficantly better in THEIR second seasons. It didn't happen.
Why did I choose the top 50 instead of the top 100 in my inital post:
I'll use RSCI data so I'm not accused of using a single data point as an outlier. Since he's been at MU, Buzz has brought in 8 top 100 recruits:
--#40 Jamil Wilson
--#47 Junior Cadougan
--#48 Vander Blue
--#67 Erik Williams
--#73 Jeronne Maymon
--#74 Jamail Jones
--#81 Juan Anderson
--#82 Steve Taylor
Maybe I missed someone--if I did I'm sure you'll be more than happy to correct me. And I do hope including every one of Buzz's top 100 recruits is objective enough for Pakuni.
Sorry you disagree with me on my observation that the top 50 players are genreally better than the next 50.
At best, at this point you could argue that Taylor might buck the trend. And then 20% of Buzz's 51 to 100 will be considered successful. Compared to 100% of the top fifty.
top 50 generally better than 50 to 100? The hell you say. Damn you are smart. Nice research, keep up the good work
Quote from: tower912 on June 27, 2013, 07:01:45 PM
Victor Oladipo and Otto Porter say hi, and that life outside the top 100 is tolerable.
Otto Porter was #34 in the RSCI.
Then shame on me for believing Jay Bilas when he said they had both come from outside the top 100.
Quote from: The Equalizer on June 27, 2013, 07:42:10 PM
Otto Porter was #34 in the RSCI.
You are correct about the RSCI, but even ESPN in the draft commented that he wasn't a top 100 player.
Quote from: The Equalizer on June 27, 2013, 05:25:35 PM
Sorry you disagree with me on my observation that the top 50 players are genreally better than the next 50.
"Top 50 players aren't generally better than the next 50," said no one here ever.
You don't need to be John Wooden to see that Steve Taylor is significantly better than Erik Williams and Jamail Jones. Those two were completely lost on the floor.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 26, 2013, 02:21:47 PM
St. Louis, maybe.
Wichita St. and VCU don't fit the profile.
I still don't get the love for SLU. Urban-ish, yes. Bball focused, yes. But their bball team also sucks except for the rare season. And now their coach is gone, which will undoubtedly affect recruiting. And let's not get started about the horror show in its administration. Good soccer teams, though.
Quote from: Pakuni on June 28, 2013, 08:04:41 AM
"Top 50 players aren't generally better than the next 50," said no one here ever.
To be fair, you said it in this thread. Not using those exact words of course, but your response to my comment that the top 50 players were generally better was:
Quote from: Pakuni on June 27, 2013, 11:40:38 AM
Could you at least pretend to be objective?
Cameron Clark, Trey Zeigler and Mychal Parker were top 50 in 2010.
Allen Crabbe, CJ Fair and Tim Hardway Jr. were top 51-100.
See ... Marquette should only recruit players outside the top 50. Three players proves it.
Boy, that sounds like you're agreeing with me, doesn't it? Not.
Now after I show that 100% of Buzz's top 50 have been successful compared to at best 20% of 51-100, you're trying to say that nobody here has ever disgreed with me that the top 50 are bettter.
But if you really want me to believe you, perhaps you could edit your reply to this post:
Quote from: Jajuannaman on June 27, 2013, 11:13:39 AM
Why cut it off at top 50? Did it not fit your argument using top 100?
And politely explain to Jaminnamam that its obvious that the top 50 are nerally alot better than 51-100.
Quote from: The Equalizer on June 28, 2013, 03:05:34 PM
To be fair, you said it in this thread. Not using those exact words of course, but your response to my comment that the top 50 players were generally better was:
Boy, that sounds like you're agreeing with me, doesn't it? Not.
Now after I show that 100% of Buzz's top 50 have been successful compared to at best 20% of 51-100, you're trying to say that nobody here has ever disgreed with me that the top 50 are bettter.
But if you really want me to believe you, perhaps you could edit your reply to this post:
And politely explain to Jaminnamam that its obvious that the top 50 are nerally alot better than 51-100.
I'd say Jeronne Maymonn has been pretty successful at Tennessee so if you look at Buzz's bottom 50 I'd say 40% and fine that's Buzz's recruits but once again tons of recruits in the bottom 50 for other teams become successful they aren't 1 and done players, if they were they'd be ranked higher that's a given. And seeing as Juan and Williams got injured you can't really use their stats Jamail Jones was a flop ill give you that.
Maybe Buzz should just stick to JUCO's. His percentage is pretty good there. Buycks, Butler, Crowder, DJO, vs. Fulce, and Fulce's lack of success was attributable to injuries, not lack of talent. Of course, some would argue that gives MU a negative reputation, but that is a different can of worms.
Quote from: tower912 on June 28, 2013, 03:25:16 PM
Maybe Buzz should just stick to JUCO's. His percentage is pretty good there. Buycks, Butler, Crowder, DJO, vs. Fulce, and Fulce's lack of success was attributable to injuries, not lack of talent. Of course, some would argue that gives MU a negative reputation, but that is a different can of worms.
I have a feeling that we aren't going to be seeing too many more non-qualifying Jucos a la Buycks or Crowder. APR takes a hit. Since McKay committed early, he stands a reasonable chance at graduating in two years.
Agreed. Going forward, Buzz has made enough of an impression that he will probably only take the occasional JUCO. In '14, for example, if he fails to land a prep 5, I can see him going the JUCO route for a big. But IMO, that will become more of the exception, versus what he did during his first years at MU.
Quote from: tower912 on June 28, 2013, 03:40:37 PM
Agreed. Going forward, Buzz has made enough of an impression that he will probably only take the occasional JUCO. In '14, for example, if he fails to land a prep 5, I can see him going the JUCO route for a big. But IMO, that will become more of the exception, versus what he did during his first years at MU.
I think jucos will be Buzz's way of avoiding rebuilding years like I think we'll have a big Juco year after jujuan, Duane and Deonte graduate or leave
Quote from: tower912 on June 28, 2013, 03:40:37 PM
Agreed. Going forward, Buzz has made enough of an impression that he will probably only take the occasional JUCO. In '14, for example, if he fails to land a prep 5, I can see him going the JUCO route for a big. But IMO, that will become more of the exception, versus what he did during his first years at MU.
And it makes a big difference if he takes a qualifying Juco, who can play 3 years at MU and likely graduate (like JFB and DJO). The two year Jucos simply have trouble geting enough credits to graduate in two years. McKay might be the exception.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on June 28, 2013, 03:44:13 PM
I think jucos will be Buzz's way of avoiding rebuilding years like I think we'll have a big Juco year after jujuan, Duane and Deonte graduate or leave
With the roster turnover MU has had, that seems like a lifetime away.
Quote from: forgetful on June 27, 2013, 07:53:35 PM
You are correct about the RSCI, but even ESPN in the draft commented that he wasn't a top 100 player.
Yes, but that was before his senior year in high school. He was realitively unknown when Georgetown signed him before the start of his senior year, because he did not play AAU ball.
Quote from: tower912 on June 27, 2013, 07:49:40 PM
Then shame on me for believing Jay Bilas when he said they had both come from outside the top 100.
Yeah, what? Otto Porter was very highly considered, like Ben Mclemore (both from Missouri). It was a huge disappointment to Mizzou fans to lose out on both of them.
Quote from: MU82 on June 27, 2013, 04:46:03 PM
Kansas State is almost always very good at hoops. Iowa State and West Virginia have had plenty of outstanding seasons. Texas made the tourney 14 straight years (and 17 of 18) before struggling last season. Oklahoma State, Oklahoma and Baylor all have had very nice stretches. Losing Mizzou and a down year in 2012-13 makes them look worse than they really are as a basketball league.
I love how perceptions can change so much. 5 years ago, everyone would be talking about how KState is never good at hoops.
Quote from: Aughnanure on June 29, 2013, 12:05:53 PM
I love how perceptions can change so much. 5 years ago, everyone would be talking about how KState is never good at hoops.
Kansas St is the 38th all-time winningest program and MU is the 43rd.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on June 27, 2013, 11:37:48 AM
Steve Taylor was in the 80's brah.
So was Erik Williams, brah. Jamail Jones, etc. Plenty of hits and misses with player rankings in recruiting. Examples on both sides.
Quote from: The Equalizer on June 27, 2013, 05:25:35 PM
Yep, and he averaged 3 ppg/2.1 rpg average, as compared to a 9.9 ppg 4.1 rpg average for the eveven top 50 Small Forwards in his class. 3x the points, 2x the rebounds. I think that's signficant.
Meanwhile, your argument is that he'll get significantly better next season. Fine--he might. But it hasn't happened yet. Also keep in mind that at the same time in their respective careers, we all thought Jamail Jones, Erik Williams and Juan Anderson would get signficantly better in THEIR second seasons. It didn't happen.
Why did I choose the top 50 instead of the top 100 in my inital post:
I'll use RSCI data so I'm not accused of using a single data point as an outlier. Since he's been at MU, Buzz has brought in 8 top 100 recruits:
--#40 Jamil Wilson
--#47 Junior Cadougan
--#48 Vander Blue
--#67 Erik Williams
--#73 Jeronne Maymon
--#74 Jamail Jones
--#81 Juan Anderson
--#82 Steve Taylor
Maybe I missed someone--if I did I'm sure you'll be more than happy to correct me. And I do hope including every one of Buzz's top 100 recruits is objective enough for Pakuni.
Sorry you disagree with me on my observation that the top 50 players are genreally better than the next 50.
At best, at this point you could argue that Taylor might buck the trend. And then 20% of Buzz's 51 to 100 will be considered successful. Compared to 100% of the top fifty.
Reggie Smith was another
http://www.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2012-05-22/unlv-guard-reggie-smith-to-transfer-again
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on June 29, 2013, 01:25:27 PM
Reggie Smith was another
One of my favorite Dodgers. Steve Garvey fought Don Sutton when Sutton said Reggie was the best Dodger. Had one of the better Fros back in the day.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HrAfFbcN6kI/UFE2krWnVdI/AAAAAAAABeA/oqcQqpmsE_Y/s1600/ReggieSmith.jpg)
Quote from: The Equalizer on June 28, 2013, 03:05:34 PM
To be fair, you said it in this thread. Not using those exact words of course, but your response to my comment that the top 50 players were generally better was:
Boy, that sounds like you're agreeing with me, doesn't it? Not.
Now after I show that 100% of Buzz's top 50 have been successful compared to at best 20% of 51-100, you're trying to say that nobody here has ever disgreed with me that the top 50 are bettter.
But if you really want me to believe you, perhaps you could edit your reply to this post:
And politely explain to Jaminnamam that its obvious that the top 50 are nerally alot better than 51-100.
You have a very vivid imagination If you got "top 50 recruits are worse than 51-100 recruits" from what I wrote. Perhaps the same vivid imagination that convinced you that moving to the Big East was a bad move for Marquette. And the same one that convinced you that an A-10 program like Xavier would never hook up with the C7 because they had it so good already.
Unsurprisingly, you missed the point entirely. I wasn't making the case that top 50 players are worse than players outside the top 50. I was mocking your convoluted effort to downgrade BE recruiting by arbitrarily cutting things off at 50. Why not top 20? Aren't top 20 players better than 21-50? Why not top 30? Aren't top 30 better than 31-75? The fact is, top 100 is the "industry standard." There is no ESPN, Scout, RSCI, etc. Top 50. They all make Top 100 lists.
Also, when discussing top 50 vs 51-100, you ignore the reality that the edge in the first 50 is almost entirely a result of the top 20 or so kids, not because there's some wide gulf between the kid ranked 41st and the one ranked 61st.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 01, 2013, 10:33:48 AM
Unsurprisingly, you missed the point entirely. I wasn't making the case that top 50 players are worse than players outside the top 50. I was mocking your convoluted effort to downgrade BE recruiting by arbitrarily cutting things off at 50. Why not top 20? Aren't top 20 players better than 21-50? Why not top 30? Aren't top 30 better than 31-75? The fact is, top 100 is the "industry standard." There is no ESPN, Scout, RSCI, etc. Top 50. They all make Top 100 lists.
So you admit to intentionally making stupid arguments because by some contorted logic you thought it would "mock" me?
At this point, the only thing you've demonstrated is that you have no freaking clue as to what the term "arbitrary" means. As I celarly explained very early in the thread, I used the top 50 based on our recent experience:
Quote from: The Equalizer on June 27, 2013, 11:32:40 AM
I think we've seen enough evidence that the type of players that excel come from the top 50.
Vander Blue, Jamil Wilson, Junior Cadougan were top 50
Juan Anderson, Jamail Jones, Erik Williams were 50-100
If the goal is to feel good about quantity, use top 100.
If the goal is to compare quality, top 50 is a better measure in my opinion.
Lets face it, the only convoluted efforts in this thread have been your attempts to "mock" me for making a commonsense observation -- based on our own experience -- that there is a performance difference between top 50 players and those ranked lower.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 01, 2013, 10:33:48 AM
Also, when discussing top 50 vs 51-100, you ignore the reality that the edge in the first 50 is almost entirely a result of the top 20 or so kids, not because there's some wide gulf between the kid ranked 41st and the one ranked 61st.
Really? I'm
ignoring all of our Top 20 recruits who skewed the findings? Let me refresh your memory on the ranking of all our top 100 recruits:
--#40 Jamil Wilson
--#47 Junior Cadougan
--#48 Vander Blue
--#67 Erik Williams
--#73 Jeronne Maymon
--#74 Jamail Jones
--#81 Juan Anderson
--#82 Steve Taylor
Pray tell how can I be "ignoring" the impact of players we never had? Our BEST recruit was ranked 40th.
At best, we don't have any data between 48 and 67. The cutoff might be 50. Or 60.
But the fact remains, 100% of our top 50 recruits have been successful (as have 100% of our 1st team JUCO AAs). If we assume a significant improvement in Taylor, then 20% of 51-100 have been successful.
Quote from: The Equalizer on July 01, 2013, 03:17:12 PM
Lets face it, the only convoluted efforts in this thread have been your attempts to "mock" me for making a commonsense observation -- based on our own experience -- that there is a performance difference between top 50 players and those ranked lower.
Anybody who thinks he made an interesting/worthwhile observation by arguing that top 50 players generally are better than players ranked lower deserves to be mocked.
Will you next make the bold observation that McDonald's All Americans tend to be pretty good at basketball?
As for the rest, you're simply unable/unwilling to get it.
Quote from: The Equalizer on July 01, 2013, 03:17:12 PM
But the fact remains, 100% of our top 50 recruits have been successful (as have 100% of our 1st team JUCO AAs). If we assume a significant improvement in Taylor, then 20% of 51-100 have been successful.
That 20% gets a little better when you add McNeal(#99), Matthews(#85), Hayward(#73), and James(#61) into the 50-100 field.
Going further back....Diener and James would both have been in the top 50 IIRC
McNeal, Lazar, Novak and Matthews would have been top 100 guys.
James was 36 in his final RSCI ranking
Quote from: LAZER on July 01, 2013, 04:12:31 PM
That 20% gets a little better when you add McNeal(#99), Matthews(#85), Hayward(#73), and James(#61) into the 50-100 field.
Quote from: LAZER on July 01, 2013, 04:12:31 PM
That 20% gets a little better when you add McNeal(#99), Matthews(#85), Hayward(#73), and James(#61) into the 50-100 field.
Well, maybe Crean was a little better at spotting hidden talent in the 50-100 range. :D
Quote from: MuMark on July 01, 2013, 04:14:47 PM
Going further back....Diener and James would both have been in the top 50 IIRC
McNeal, Lazar, Novak and Matthews would have been top 100 guys.
I pulled James #61 ranking from Rivals, Scout had him at #43. McNeal was #54 on Scout too.
RSCI is an average of all the services so is considered a better estimate of true ranking coming out of high school.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 01, 2013, 03:25:19 PM
Anybody who thinks he made an interesting/worthwhile observation by arguing that top 50 players generally are better than players ranked lower deserves to be mocked.
And anyone who thinks
that was the observation I originally posted is a complete idiot.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 01, 2013, 03:25:19 PM
As for the rest, you're simply unable/unwilling to get it.
As for the rest? What rest? You have nothing. Your entire argument is nothing but a big fat circular argument.
You argue that my post was arbitrary, but that means you have to argue that there is no effective performance difference between the top 50 and the next 50. When I pressure you to make that case that there's no difference, you switch the argument and claim nobody is saying that and "duh, of course better players are better."
Okay--since you agree better players are better, then you have to agree that its not arbitrary to look at them separately. Oh wait, that's not your argument, is it?
Rather than own up the circular nonsensical argument, you'd rather attempt to "mock" me for perfectly reasonalbe and factually based arguments.
BTW, the interesing/worthwhile observation is that while the Big East has annually recruited 8 to 10 top 50 recruits each year, so far this year we collectively have only 1 commitment.
We either have a long way to go (even adjusting for league size), or we're going to fall short compared recent performance.
Quote from: The Equalizer on July 01, 2013, 05:27:09 PM
And anyone who thinks that was the observation I originally posted is a complete idiot.
Just so we're clear, the guy who ...
- suggested Tom Crean adopt a player
- thought moving to the Big East in 2005 was a bad move for MU basketball
- called David Cubillan a "pure point guard"
- argued vociferously that Xavier (and other A-10 programs) would want no part in the New Big East
... is calling someone a complete idiot.
Duly noted.
And your latest startling observation: the new Big East - minus Louisville, Syracuse, UConn and Pitt - may be getting fewer top 50 recruits than the old Big East had in recent years.
Great stuff.
I was ignored last time I pointed out that Jeronne Maymonn wasn't a flop if you look at his Tennessee numbers. But I guess because that makes the number 40% it makes your argument not as effective you are just ignoring me.
Quote from: Pakuni on July 01, 2013, 06:08:37 PM
Just so we're clear, the guy who ...
- argued vociferously that Xavier (and other A-10 programs) would want no part in the New Big East
The Equalizer is UDPride???
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on July 01, 2013, 07:27:57 PM
I was ignored last time I pointed out that Jeronne Maymonn wasn't a flop if you look at his Tennessee numbers. But I guess because that makes the number 40% it makes your argument not as effective you are just ignoring me.
Sorry--didn't mean to ignore you--your message just got lost in all of Pakuni's lies and misrrepresentations.
I simply don't recall Maymon as one of Buzz' success stories. Feel free to respectfully disagree if you want--but you asked why I didn't consider him, and that's my answer.
Keep in mind that this is in reponse to an innocuous post where I provided a recruiting analysis of the 2014 top 50 for the league. Someone asked why I choce the top 50 (insinuating that there was some nefarious reason), and I gave them the honest answer--my observation is that we haven't had a lot of success outside the top 50 HS players.
I guess there's no satisfying the haters, who seem more bent on personal attacks than actual discussion (unless I 100% agree with them).
Quote from: Pakuni on July 01, 2013, 06:08:37 PM
- suggested Tom Crean adopt a player
- thought moving to the Big East in 2005 was a bad move for MU basketball
- called David Cubillan a "pure point guard"
- argued vociferously that Xavier (and other A-10 programs) would want no part in the New Big East
Anyone who believes these come anywhere close to what I actually said on any of these topics is a complete idiot.
Back on topic....LJ Peak verbaled to Georgetown tonight....another top 100 kid chooses to play in the new Big East....
Quote from: MuMark on July 02, 2013, 06:34:28 PM
Back on topic....LJ Peak verbaled to Georgetown tonight....another top 100 kid chooses to play in the new Big East....
Saw him play a few times last year. Really impressive, looked much better than his teammate (Paul White) in the games I saw.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on July 02, 2013, 06:39:42 PM
Saw him play a few times last year. Really impressive, looked much better than his teammate (Paul White) in the games I saw.
In the end, I think Harris might be the better player than White.
Quote from: keefe on July 01, 2013, 01:42:41 AM
One of my favorite Dodgers. Steve Garvey fought Don Sutton when Sutton said Reggie was the best Dodger. Had one of the better Fros back in the day.
My favorite was during a spring training game when Sutton faced Garvey and Garvey said he was going to drill Sutton. Next thing you know, Garvey crushes a ball back up the middle that hits Sutton. A few innings later, Garvey does the exact same thing. Tough enough to get a hit off a pitcher, but to nail your rival pitcher back to back with line drives is pretty good.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2013, 07:01:48 PM
My favorite was during a spring training game when Sutton faced Garvey and Garvey said he was going to drill Sutton. Next thing you know, Garvey crushes a ball back up the middle that hits Sutton. A few innings later, Garvey does the exact same thing. Tough enough to get a hit off a pitcher, but to nail your rival pitcher back to back with line drives is pretty good.
I think a lot of us lost some respect for Garvey, he of Popeye forearms, when scrawny Don Sutton kicked his as in the locker room. But any lingering admiration evaporated immediately once word emerged that his wife left him for Marvin Hamlisch.
(http://images.thehollywoodgossip.com/iu/t_xlarge_l/v1364529176/attachment/garveys.jpg)
(http://www.washingtonpost.com/rf/image_606w/2010-2019/WashingtonPost/2012/08/07/National-Enterprise/Images/mhlc5.jpg)
Quote from: keefe on July 02, 2013, 07:27:48 PM
I think a lot of us lost some respect for Garvey, he of Popeye forearms, when scrawny Don Sutton kicked his as in the locker room. But any lingering admiration evaporated immediately once word emerged that his wife left him for Marvin Hamlisch.
My recollection of the "fight" was that both came away bruised. Sutton said something about Popeye's wife, Cindy, which is not a cool thing to do and Garvey went after him. I'm not backing either, that's just my memory from growing up out here. Personally, I liked Steve Yeager, nephew of Chuck Yeager whom I sure you have a fondness for in your pilot heart.
L.J. Peak put on a South Carolina hat at first and then threw it. I understand he's a kid just enjoying the moment but I probably wouldn't find it funny if I was a South Carolina fan.
http://zagsblog.com/georgetown/l-j-peak-fakes-out-fans-before-pledging-to-georgetown/ (http://zagsblog.com/georgetown/l-j-peak-fakes-out-fans-before-pledging-to-georgetown/)
Quote from: I don't care on July 02, 2013, 07:47:26 PM
L.J. Peak put on a South Carolina hat at first and then threw it. I understand he's a kid just enjoying the moment but I probably wouldn't find it funny if I was a South Carolina fan.
http://zagsblog.com/georgetown/l-j-peak-fakes-out-fans-before-pledging-to-georgetown/ (http://zagsblog.com/georgetown/l-j-peak-fakes-out-fans-before-pledging-to-georgetown/)
They have press conferences for the 82nd ranked player......no wonder there are so many prima donna high school kids out there.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2013, 07:37:58 PM
My recollection of the "fight" was that both came away bruised. Sutton said something about Popeye's wife, Cindy, which is not a cool thing to do and Garvey went after him. I'm not backing either, that's just my memory from growing up out here. Personally, I liked Steve Yeager, nephew of Chuck Yeager whom I sure you have a fondness for in your pilot heart.
I liked Davey Lopes but then I was a second baseman. My dad was a two star F-4/F-15 Driver and disciple of Robin Olds. He met Yeager a few times but never knew him. The TPS guys at Edwards are in their own privileged best-of-the-best universe. Rumor has it that upon selection to TPS one undergoes a surgical procedure that removes any and all malodorous scent from your fecal matter.
I know a couple guys who went to TPS. The main difference between today and Yeager's era is that the 1946 generation was pushing the far outer edge of a completely unknown envelope. The were going higher, faster, and farther on a daily basis. Problem for them is that the USAF values team, conformity, procedure - attributes that inhibit success as a Test Pilot. Because of that cultural construct the TPS guys were never considered for the newly established space program. The USAF and USN wanted Company Men with movie star looks.
The injustice was chronicled by Tom Wolfe in The Right Stuff. Best line from the movie is after Yeager set the world air breather altitude record in an F-104 then endured an 80,000' flat spin before punching out is spotted walking across the floor of the Mojave Desert. The NCO driving the crash truck cries out, "Look! It's a man!" Yeager's long time wingman, Col. Bud "Triple Ace" Anderson replies, "You're Goddam right that's a man!"
And yes, fighter pilots chew Beeman's.
(http://www.nasa.gov/centers/dryden/images/content/111346main_scan41_330.jpg)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2013, 07:49:28 PM
They have press conferences for the 82nd ranked player......no wonder there are so many prima donna high school kids out there.
Hey he's 63rd on scout show some respect 8-)
that's 3 top 100 recruits for the Hoyas based on the scout rankings. Which are clearly superior since they have the highest rankings for all 3 hoya recruits. ;D
Quote from: hoyasincebirth on July 02, 2013, 09:34:18 PM
Hey he's 63rd on scout show some respect 8-)
that's 3 top 100 recruits for the Hoyas based on the scout rankings. Which are clearly superior since they have the highest rankings for all 3 hoya recruits. ;D
As stated elsewhere, I've seen the kid play a few times and came away impressed. Think you've got a good one in Peak.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2013, 07:49:28 PM
They have press conferences for the 82nd ranked player......no wonder there are so many prima donna high school kids out there.
While I agree that there are many prima donnas out there....I don't think a press conference for 82nd is unwarranted. Its easy to forget that there are literally thousands of young men competing for scholarships at all levels. To be top 100 of that number is a huge achievement
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on July 02, 2013, 07:49:28 PM
They have press conferences for the 82nd ranked player......no wonder there are so many prima donna high school kids out there.
I find it very reasonable for a top 100 player to have a press conference. So basically a majority of the players on this MU squad should not have been allowed to have a press conference?
Quote from: Rockmic87 on July 03, 2013, 12:42:11 AM
I find it very reasonable for a top 100 player to have a press conference. So basically a majority of the players on this MU squad should not have been allowed to have a press conference?
Gotta be top 50 to hold a press conference. Otherwise it just looks gauche.
Quote from: I don't care on July 02, 2013, 07:47:26 PM
L.J. Peak put on a South Carolina hat at first and then threw it. I understand he's a kid just enjoying the moment but I probably wouldn't find it funny if I was a South Carolina fan.
http://zagsblog.com/georgetown/l-j-peak-fakes-out-fans-before-pledging-to-georgetown/ (http://zagsblog.com/georgetown/l-j-peak-fakes-out-fans-before-pledging-to-georgetown/)
Seems like he has the same kind of sense of humor as some of the posters here have.
Quote from: bilsu on July 03, 2013, 08:31:33 AM
Seems like he has the same kind of sense of humor as some of the posters here have.
(http://jeffreyhill.typepad.com/.a/6a00d8341d417153ef01156fb125f6970c-pi)
actually apparently he's 54th on ESPN's rankings. So I guess he's 4 spots away from deserving a press conference. ;D
Quote from: hoyasincebirth on July 03, 2013, 12:47:28 PM
actually apparently he's 54th on ESPN's rankings. So I guess he's 4 spots away from deserving a press conference. ;D
Sorry bud, doesn't even count as a recruiting win for the conference.
To me having press conferences and such for kids of that level only adds to the epidemic in transfers. These kids are coddled from an early age, told how great they are, have the TV cameras in front of them so they can tell the world (50 year old alums) they are coming to their school. When they arrive on campus and are actually required to work and not get by just on their athleticism, a demanding coach, etc....no wonder why these kids want to transfer at such a high rate. They come in with an inflated self-worth, they don't get the minutes that correspond with what they believe is their rightful slot and they become disillusioned. It's a part of the pumping we do to these kids.
Not everyone, of course. I would love to see this throttled down, but I know that is never going to happen. If anything it will continue to go the other way.
Quote from: The Equalizer on July 02, 2013, 03:20:27 PM
Sorry--didn't mean to ignore you--your message just got lost in all of Pakuni's lies and misrrepresentations.
I simply don't recall Maymon as one of Buzz' success stories. Feel free to respectfully disagree if you want--but you asked why I didn't consider him, and that's my answer.
Keep in mind that this is in reponse to an innocuous post where I provided a recruiting analysis of the 2014 top 50 for the league. Someone asked why I choce the top 50 (insinuating that there was some nefarious reason), and I gave them the honest answer--my observation is that we haven't had a lot of success outside the top 50 HS players.
I guess there's no satisfying the haters, who seem more bent on personal attacks than actual discussion (unless I 100% agree with them).
12 pts 8 reb in 28min a game when he's only had two seasons under his belt clearly shows talent. Granted Buzz couldn't hang onto that talent but you have to admit that it is talent none the less.
Quote from: Jajuannaman on July 03, 2013, 06:44:05 AM
Gotta be top 50 to hold a press conference. Otherwise it just looks gauche.
Given that everyone tries to play basketball, dreams of playing basketball, and aspires to play basketball at the D1 level, if you are a top 100 player, you definitely have the right to hold a press conference.
Quote from: Rockmic87 on July 04, 2013, 02:27:39 AM
Given that everyone tries to play basketball, dreams of playing basketball, and aspires to play basketball at the D1 level, if you are a top 100 player, you definitely have the right to hold a press conference.
As the signing seasons pass these run the risk of being even further trivialized into banality
So, maybe the new conference isn't as bad at recruiting as some want to claim.
@EvanDanielsFOX: The new Big East currently has more top 100 commitments than every league, except the ACC.
Quote from: Rockmic87 on July 04, 2013, 02:27:39 AM
Given that everyone tries to play basketball, dreams of playing basketball, and aspires to play basketball at the D1 level, if you are a top 100 player, you definitely have the right to hold a press conference.
'twas just a dig at Equalizer's creatively selective arguing. I agree with you.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 25, 2013, 09:58:31 AM
So, maybe the new conference isn't as bad at recruiting as some want to claim.
@EvanDanielsFOX: The new Big East currently has more top 100 commitments than every league, except the ACC.
Yeah Big East has been killing it. All the knee-jerk negative nancies looking stupid as usual.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 25, 2013, 09:58:31 AM
So, maybe the new conference isn't as bad at recruiting as some want to claim.
@EvanDanielsFOX: The new Big East currently has more top 100 commitments than every league, except the ACC.
"@BSnowScout: As of Sep 20, four/five star commits by conference ACC (17), Big East (13), B1G/Pac 12 (11), SEC (9), American (5), Big XII (2)"
Quote from: muwarrior69 on September 25, 2013, 11:39:45 AM
"@BSnowScout: As of Sep 20, four/five star commits by conference ACC (17), Big East (13), B1G/Pac 12 (11), SEC (9), American (5), Big XII (2)"
Now I know that is very likely to change since just a handful of the uncommitted 2014s are still considering BE schools (Ahmed Hill being one), but I think this is clearly a sign that the NBE chicken-littles were wrong...again.
Quote from: muwarrior69 on September 25, 2013, 11:39:45 AM
"@BSnowScout: As of Sep 20, four/five star commits by conference ACC (17), Big East (13), B1G/Pac 12 (11), SEC (9), American (5), Big XII (2)"
The American will be hurting quite a bit in these rankings next year after Louisville moves onto the ACC. Do they have three of the five?
Quote from: muwarrior69 on September 25, 2013, 11:39:45 AM
"@BSnowScout: As of Sep 20, four/five star commits by conference ACC (17), Big East (13), B1G/Pac 12 (11), SEC (9), American (5), Big XII (2)"
And to put the numbers further in perspective:
NBE - 13 for 10 schools (1.3 per)
ACC - 17 for 15 schools (1.2 per)
Big 10/Pac 12 - 11 for 12 schools (.92 per)
SEC - 9 for 14 schools (.64 per)
Quote from: muwarrior69 on September 25, 2013, 11:39:45 AM
"@BSnowScout: As of Sep 20, four/five star commits by conference ACC (17), Big East (13), B1G/Pac 12 (11), SEC (9), American (5), Big XII (2)"
Big East also only has 10 teams so 13 is an average of 1.3 per team.
Quote from: LittleMurs on September 25, 2013, 11:50:24 AM
The American will be hurting quite a bit in these rankings next year after Louisville moves onto the ACC. Do they have three of the five?
I believe Duke, UNC and Syracuse got the bulk of those recruits for the ACC.
There are still a lot of top 25 players that have not committed. I'm guessing UK lands a few...maybe Florida, too.
All of those players have the potential to be difference makers. Isn't that what is most important?
Quote from: Jajuannaman on September 25, 2013, 10:08:22 AM
'twas just a dig at Equalizer's creatively selective arguing. I agree with you.
Great.......prepare for a 1000 word essay, with quotes, showing how 3 different contradictory things are going on but that he both was right all along and never said it, with a few snarky insults thrown in.
Quote from: tower912 on September 25, 2013, 12:50:06 PM
Great.......prepare for a 1000 word essay, with quotes, showing how 3 different contradictory things are going on but that he both was right all along and never said it, with a few snarky insults thrown in.
Post of the year!
Add another one...Xavier gets 4 star
http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=7024113
Quote from: MuMark on September 25, 2013, 02:40:25 PM
Add another one...Xavier gets 4 star
http://scouthoops.scout.com/a.z?s=75&p=8&c=1&nid=7024113
So far their class looks like this:
4 STARS
PF 16 Makinde London
(Montverde Academy)
Montverde, FL 6-9/210
SG 20 J.P. Macura
(Lakeville North HS)
Lakeville, MN 6-5/170
3 STARS
SG 27 Edmond Sumner
(Detroit Country Day School)
Beverly Hills, MI 6-2/155
If the STARS mean anything to you...
Quote from: 77ncaachamps on September 25, 2013, 03:05:23 PM
So far their class looks like this:
4 STARS
PF 16 Makinde London
(Montverde Academy)
Montverde, FL 6-9/210
SG 20 J.P. Macura
(Lakeville North HS)
Lakeville, MN 6-5/170
3 STARS
SG 27 Edmond Sumner
(Detroit Country Day School)
Beverly Hills, MI 6-2/155
If the STARS mean anything to you...
No one taller than 6-9? Is that with or without shoes?
Big East has six of the top 20 in 24/7's 2014 Team Rankings.
This obviously will change some in the months ahead, but the conference is off to a great start.
Perhaps to the chagrin of certain naysayers.
http://247sports.com/Season/2014-Basketball/CompositeTeamRankings
Quote from: Pakuni on September 25, 2013, 03:35:48 PM
Big East has six of the top 20 in 24/7's 2014 Team Rankings.
This obviously will change some in the months ahead, but the conference is off to a great start.
Perhaps to the chagrin of certain naysayers.
http://247sports.com/Season/2014-Basketball/CompositeTeamRankings
And this, from Evan Daniels of Fox Sports (https://twitter.com/EvanDanielsFOX/status/382874618031132674):
The new Big East currently has more top 100 commitments than every league, except the ACC.
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on September 26, 2013, 02:14:13 AM
And this, from Evan Daniels of Fox Sports (https://twitter.com/EvanDanielsFOX/status/382874618031132674):
The new Big East currently has more top 100 commitments than every league, except the ACC.
This was posted in post 165.
http://zagsblog.com/articles/ben-bentil-to-providence/
Add one for Creighton.....over Purdue and KSU
@ny2lasports: Class of 2014: Ronnie Harrell- a 6'6" guard/wing from Denver East HS has committed to Creighton
Quote from: MuMark on September 30, 2013, 06:27:37 PM
Add one for Creighton.....over Purdue and KSU
@ny2lasports: Class of 2014: Ronnie Harrell- a 6'6" guard/wing from Denver East HS has committed to Creighton
What's he rated?
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on September 30, 2013, 08:02:09 PM
3 stars on rivals and scout.
Although currently not a top 150 recruit, SG/SF 6'7 Ronnie Harrell just committed to Creighton. Under the radar, recently grew from 5'10 to 6'7 from freshman to junior year, he has guard skills with forward height. Chose Creighton over Purdue, Kansas State, Arizona State, Washington, DePaul and Washington State. #2 rated by Rivals in the state of Colorado. Also, he is the cousin of Chauncy Billups so he has some good genes. Eric Bossi of Rivals quote "I really, really like this pickup for the Jays. He's one of the bigger "potential" guys out there, especially as a fringe Rivals150 ranked player."
Harrell joins Top 150 recruit Leon Gilmore III in Creighton's 2014 class.
Quote from: Jet915 on September 30, 2013, 08:25:11 PM
Although currently not a top 150 recruit, SG/SF 6'7 Ronnie Harrell just committed to Creighton. Under the radar, recently grew from 5'10 to 6'7 from freshman to junior year, he has guard skills with forward height. Chose Creighton over Purdue, Kansas State, Arizona State, Washington, DePaul and Washington State. #2 rated by Rivals in the state of Colorado. Also, he is the cousin of Chauncy Billups so he has some good genes. Eric Bossi of Rivals quote "I really, really like this pickup for the Jays. He's one of the bigger "potential" guys out there, especially as a fringe Rivals150 ranked player."
Harrell joins Top 150 recruit Leon Gilmore III in Creighton's 2014 class.
Congrats on what appears to be a solid pickup. When will DePaul get anybody? Sigh.
Quote from: LittleMurs on September 30, 2013, 08:28:58 PM
Congrats on what appears to be a solid pickup. When will DePaul get anybody? Sigh.
They are in Cliff Alexander's final 5...you never know...
Quote from: TAMU Eagle on September 30, 2013, 09:18:48 PM
They are in Cliff Alexander's final 5...you never know...
Believe me, I know....
Georgetown lands 2015 PF Marcus Derrickson, ranked 56th by ESPN, 55th by Rivals, 55th by 24/7 and 54th by Scout.
This new conference continues to be a drag on recruiting.
Quote from: Pakuni on October 28, 2013, 01:00:37 PM
Georgetown lands 2015 PF Marcus Derrickson, ranked 56th by ESPN, 55th by Rivals, 55th by 24/7 and 54th by Scout.
This new conference continues to be a drag on recruiting.
Ah...the sweet smell of sarcasm. I love it!
Quote from: humanlung on October 28, 2013, 02:12:17 PM
Ah...the sweet smell of sarcasm. I love it!
Is this sarcastic? I honestly can't tell
DePaul just landed 3-star SG Jon Davis out of D.C. Sounds like a solid pickup. Also, Bullseye Brothers continue to insist they are legitimately in the running for Cliff Alexander, though I'm sure I'm not the only skeptic in that regard.
Quote from: ElDonBDon on October 28, 2013, 08:09:10 PM
Is this sarcastic? I honestly can't tell
Yes, Pakuni was being sarcastic when he said that "the new conference continues to be a drag on recruiting", because he was reporting another top 100 commitment to a Big East school.
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 30, 2013, 10:47:41 AM
DePaul just landed 3-star SG Jon Davis out of D.C. Sounds like a solid pickup. Also, Bullseye Brothers continue to insist they are legitimately in the running for Cliff Alexander, though I'm sure I'm not the only skeptic in that regard.
I'm not all in either, but I've seen a lot of boards and bloggers in the last day or two predicting Alexander to either Illinois or DePaul.
Quote from: Archies Bat on October 30, 2013, 03:56:40 PM
I'm not all in either, but I've seen a lot of boards and bloggers in the last day or two predicting Alexander to either Illinois or DePaul.
Adding to that, it appears Alexander has canceled his scheduled official visit to Michigan State.
Quote from: Archies Bat on October 30, 2013, 03:56:40 PM
I'm not all in either, but I've seen a lot of boards and bloggers in the last day or two predicting Alexander to either Illinois or DePaul.
This is just one of those things that can turn around an entire program. I think Depul will be fine this year finishing closer to 7th place but with Alexander the Big East would be in incredible shape.
Cliff Alexander to DePaul with be incredible, really pulling for the Demons.
Illinois can also suck it.
I blame Val Ackerman
Quote from: esard2011 on October 30, 2013, 05:02:50 PM
This is just one of those things that can turn around an entire program. I think Depul will be fine this year finishing closer to 7th place but with Alexander the Big East would be in incredible shape.
I have no faith in DPU. It seems with two guys like Melvin and Young, that team should really be doing...I don't know...something. Contending for the NIT or something along that level. Even guys like Clahar, Crockett, and Kirk seemed like decent enough role players.
Purnell's teams have been remarkably bad. It seems almost difficult to be so consistently bad, you'd think they'd manage to get 5-6 league wins some year just on the basis that someone else has an off night. Instead, Melvin and Young have a combined 6 wins in 3 years. Pathetic.
Maybe this recruiting class will turn it around. Garrett seems to have some real star potential and if Hamilton can slim down he was once a highly regarded recruit. But will they be ready to help lift DePaul out of the cellar? I'm not convinced. That program has problems that start well above Purnell's head, and until they fix things at the top, I don't expect them to turn it around.
EDIT: I have to imagine Alexander would help, but even if he does go there, it's still a team game. He might help them win a few, but I'm not convinced even his presence makes them a NCAA team.
Lot of talent there with Young, Kirk, Melvin, McKinney and Garrett
Quote from: brewcity77 on October 30, 2013, 05:39:47 PM
I have no faith in DPU. It seems with two guys like Melvin and Young, that team should really be doing...I don't know...something. Contending for the NIT or something along that level. Even guys like Clahar, Crockett, and Kirk seemed like decent enough role players.
Purnell's teams have been remarkably bad. It seems almost difficult to be so consistently bad, you'd think they'd manage to get 5-6 league wins some year just on the basis that someone else has an off night. Instead, Melvin and Young have a combined 6 wins in 3 years. Pathetic.
Maybe this recruiting class will turn it around. Garrett seems to have some real star potential and if Hamilton can slim down he was once a highly regarded recruit. But will they be ready to help lift DePaul out of the cellar? I'm not convinced. That program has problems that start well above Purnell's head, and until they fix things at the top, I don't expect them to turn it around.
EDIT: I have to imagine Alexander would help, but even if he does go there, it's still a team game. He might help them win a few, but I'm not convinced even his presence makes them a NCAA team.
Melvin and Young are good but their stats are exageratted. Purnell runs the offense completely through the two of them. Also, when you are the best on a bad team, its easy to get gaudy stats.
That being said, they are still two great players and I do agree that Depaul should have been able to put something better together in the past few years.
just a hunch, but Alexander to DPU=probation in 2-3 years for the Demons.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on October 30, 2013, 10:39:02 PM
just a hunch, but Alexander to DPU=probation in 2-3 years for the Demons.
I've never smelled anything foul in Purnell's administration (besides their play). And some kids just want to stay close to home.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on October 30, 2013, 10:39:02 PM
just a hunch, but Alexander to DPU=probation in 2-3 years for the Demons.
That's not been their MO. Something's a little strange regarding Alexander's recruitment. Cancelling the Michigan State visit seems to imply he wants to be close to home. But, MU is a lot closer to home than Illinois, and I can't remember him ever being mentioned with us, although Okafor was early on.
Very highly ranked without the expected level of interest from the blue bloods. Odd.
Quote from: LittleMurs on October 30, 2013, 10:49:06 PM
That's not been their MO. Something's a little strange regarding Alexander's recruitment. Cancelling the Michigan State visit seems to imply he wants to be close to home. But, MU is a lot closer to home than Illinois, and I can't remember him ever being mentioned with us, although Okafor was early on.
Very highly ranked without the expected level of interest from the blue bloods. Odd.
There's nothing odd about his Illinois interest/lean. Illinois has always done well with in-state kids, even under Weber (Brandon Paul, DJ Richardson, Jereme Richmond were all very highly rated), and Groce is an excellent recruiter.
Quote from: Pakuni on October 31, 2013, 07:54:48 AM
There's nothing odd about his Illinois interest/lean. Illinois has always done well with in-state kids, even under Weber (Brandon Paul, DJ Richardson, Jereme Richmond were all very highly rated), and Groce is an excellent recruiter.
I didn't find anything strange about Illinois being involved, I was thinking more along the lines of them not having more competition, like really intense competition given Alexander's ranking.
Quote from: Pakuni on October 31, 2013, 07:54:48 AM
There's nothing odd about his Illinois interest/lean. Illinois has always done well with in-state kids, even under Weber (Brandon Paul, DJ Richardson, Jereme Richmond were all very highly rated), and Groce is an excellent recruiter.
Groce will stop at nothing to get the talent, and he has the backing to do whatever is necessary to get those kids down into Champaign-Manure-Urbana.
Quote from: PTM on October 31, 2013, 11:08:32 AM
Groce will stop at nothing to get the talent, and he has the backing to do whatever necessary to get those kids down into Champaign-Manure-Urbana.
Illinois is no where close to being a dirty program.
Quote from: esard2011 on October 31, 2013, 11:27:37 AM
Illinois is no where close to being a dirty program.
I was making fun of Tim Beckman's 'WIN' mantra: Whatever Is Necessary, Today.
Some people might get the reference.
Quote from: PTM on October 31, 2013, 11:30:04 AM
I was making fun of Tim Beckman's 'WIN' mantra: Whatever Is Necessary, Today.
Some people might get the reference.
Sorry, I have been really behind lately on the references.
Quote from: esard2011 on October 31, 2013, 11:32:12 AM
Sorry, I have been really behind lately on the references.
It's a little out there.
Bill Self was in Chicago yesterday visiting both Alexander and Okafor. My guess is Cliff goes to Kansas
Quote from: swoopem on October 31, 2013, 11:55:56 AM
Bill Self was in Chicago yesterday visiting both Alexander and Okafor. My guess is Cliff goes to Kansas
Self was in town for Okafor who is his primary target right now. If Okafor ends up at KU, Alexander won't be following him.
Quote from: LAZER on October 31, 2013, 12:08:48 PM
Self was in town for Okafor who is his primary target right now. If Okafor ends up at KU, Alexander won't be following him.
He saw both guys and according to "experts" Okafor and Tyus Jones are both going to Duke. That leaves Cliff with KU all to himself.
Quote from: swoopem on October 31, 2013, 02:05:33 PM
He saw both guys and according to "experts" Okafor and Tyus Jones are both going to Duke. That leaves Cliff with KU all to himself.
Duke will be really screwed if Okafor and Jones do not go there. I think they had Looney, but stopped paying attention to him while they were chasing after these two players.
Quote from: swoopem on October 31, 2013, 02:05:33 PM
He saw both guys and according to "experts" Okafor and Tyus Jones are both going to Duke. That leaves Cliff with KU all to himself.
We'll see what happens with Jones/Okafor, far from a lock to Duke. Lots of people saying KU is in the lead now. If those two head to KU, Illinois will be in real good shape for Alexander.
Xavier got a commitment this weekend from 2014 top 50 SF Trevon Bluiett.
https://twitter.com/NewBigEastConf/status/397381829528780800
Yowza
Quote from: bilsu on October 31, 2013, 02:26:10 PM
Duke will be really screwed if Okafor and Jones do not go there.
That's some pretty fantastic hyperbole.
Quote from: jesmu84 on November 04, 2013, 09:37:26 AM
https://twitter.com/NewBigEastConf/status/397381829528780800
Yowza
Holy sleeping giant batman!
Quote from: jesmu84 on November 04, 2013, 09:37:26 AM
https://twitter.com/NewBigEastConf/status/397381829528780800
Yowza
Go Big East! Land him, DePaul!!!!
Quote from: JWags85 on November 04, 2013, 09:52:55 AM
That's some pretty fantastic hyperbole.
In the context of the '14 recruiting class, it's not far off.
Quote from: LAZER on November 04, 2013, 11:21:24 AM
In the context of the '14 recruiting class, it's not far off.
They've already got a commitment from 5-star (ESPN #24 overall) two guard Grayson Allen, and are the favorite for 5-star (ESPN #23 overall) PF Reid Travis, and are in good with 5-star (ESPN #14 overall) wing Justise Winslow.
So, even without Jones or Okafor, they could easily come away with three top 25 players in the class of 2014.
If that's "screwed," then let's hope Marquette gets screwed every year. Hard.
Quote from: Pakuni on November 04, 2013, 11:32:48 AM
They've already got a commitment from 5-star (ESPN #24 overall) two guard Grayson Allen, and are the favorite for 5-star (ESPN #23 overall) PF Reid Travis, and are in good with 5-star (ESPN #14 overall) wing Justise Winslow.
So, even without Jones or Okafor, they could easily come away with three top 25 players in the class of 2014.
If that's "screwed," then let's hope Marquette gets screwed every year. Hard.
Ha well yeah MU and Duke are two different stories.
I did forget they had Grayson Allen already, so they'll be in good shape most likely. I do remember reading that Duke shifted their focus from Looney to Winslow, I'm interested to see if that plays out.
Quote from: jesmu84 on November 04, 2013, 09:37:26 AM
https://twitter.com/NewBigEastConf/status/397381829528780800
Yowza
That would be a ridiculous get for DePaul, maybe the first step in renewing our rivalry.
Quote from: striker14 on November 04, 2013, 12:21:43 PM
That would be a ridiculous get for DePaul, maybe the first step in renewing our rivalry.
http://www.thechampaignroom.com/2013/11/4/5064688/recruiting-illinois-depaul-cliff-alexander
Still that would be enormous, mostly for saving Purnell's butt. Though could you imagine if they got Cliff and we got Stone? The BE would defs not be overlooked anymore.
Any word on when hes announcing?
Quote from: esard2011 on November 04, 2013, 01:35:42 PM
Any word on when hes announcing?
Cliff Alexander is announcing November 15th.
Quote from: BagpipingBoxer on November 04, 2013, 01:09:48 PM
http://www.thechampaignroom.com/2013/11/4/5064688/recruiting-illinois-depaul-cliff-alexander
Still that would be enormous, mostly for saving Purnell's butt. Though could you imagine if they got Cliff and we got Stone? The BE would defs not be overlooked anymore.
That would be awesome, and I hope it comes to fruition. Only problem is they'll never play each other. Alexander's camp has already indicated he's a one-and-done, and would enter the draft after HS if it were still allowed. I don't see DePaul beating out Illinois anyway. Hope Oliver proves me wrong.
Quote from: Wally Schroeder on November 04, 2013, 02:01:43 PM
Cliff Alexander is announcing November 15th.
That would be awesome, and I hope it comes to fruition. Only problem is they'll never play each other. Alexander's camp has already indicated he's a one-and-done, and would enter the draft after HS if it were still allowed. I don't see DePaul beating out Illinois anyway. Hope Oliver proves me wrong.
Ah bummer, still though getting those two back to back would tremendously improve the conference even if it doesn't help our rivalry return to being nationally sexy. I could see Purnell getting him for a year if he's friends with Billy Garrett Jr. Shame he's announcing so soon because a strong performance during the year from Young, Melvin and Garrett might've really helped the Blue Demons.
247sports.com's Crystal Ball currently has Alexander's destination at 68% for Kansas, 24% for Illinois, 5% for DePaul and 3% for Kentucky.
http://247sports.com/Player/Cliff-Alexander-14912 (http://247sports.com/Player/Cliff-Alexander-14912)
Quote from: Heavy Gear on November 04, 2013, 02:18:53 PM
247sports.com currently has Alexander's destination at 68% for Kansas, 24% for Illinois, 5% for DePaul and 3% for Kentucky.
http://247sports.com/Player/Cliff-Alexander-14912 (http://247sports.com/Player/Cliff-Alexander-14912)
Recent rumblings, like in the article posted by Boxer, indicate he's down to Illinois and DePaul. Alexander's denying it, so who knows. Look at the timing of the predictions. Illinois got a solid smattering after Alexander's official visit to Champaign, and picked up three today. I'd feel pretty good if I were an Illini fan.
Every time MU lands another good player, this thread needs bumped. bump
Quote from: tower912 on November 15, 2013, 06:33:05 PM
Every time MU lands another good player, this thread needs bumped. bump
Yeah, too bad about that new conference...
5 teams in Scout top 20 (updated)
1 Big 10 team in top 20
Quote from: brandx on November 15, 2013, 08:00:21 PM
5 teams in Scout top 20 (updated)
1 Big 10 team in top 20
Paige not listed for MU.
Quote from: tower912 on November 15, 2013, 06:33:05 PM
Every time MU lands another good player, this thread, which was based on sad, ignorant,
knee-jerk pessimism, combined with bats*** hearsay and a complete absence of any
evidence, needs bumped. bump
Agree with this completely. But put some fixes in.