MUScoop

Green Bay Press-Gazette interviews former University of Wisconsin-Green Bay men's basketball player whose allegations led to an investigation of coach Brian Wardle.

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130429/GPG020101/304290404/Bross-outlines-complaints-against-Wardle (http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20130429/GPG020101/304290404/Bross-outlines-complaints-against-Wardle)

It seems like it still has a ways to run, but that Brian isn't too worried about being exonerated.  I guess we'll see.  I was surprised to see that Wardle would have veto power over what classes a player could take when the class didn't interfere with practice.

>allegations of vulgar, demeaning language Wardle used against the walk-on freshman, and an incident in which the coach made an ill Bross continue a workout until he couldn't control his bowels and then ridiculed him for it.

ಠ_ಠ

Quote from: EnderWiggen on April 29, 2013, 11:11:35 PM
>allegations of vulgar, demeaning language Wardle used against the walk-on freshman, and an incident in which the coach made an ill Bross continue a workout until he couldn't control his bowels and then ridiculed him for it.

ಠ_ಠ

Any guy who sh1ts his pants for whatever reason should expect to hear about it from his mates. Having your mother complain about it is weak.

Quote from: keefe on April 30, 2013, 03:23:29 AM
Any guy who sh1ts his pants for whatever reason should expect to hear about it from his mates. Having your mother complain about it is weak.

Holy Crap, Batman. Literally. With these allegations, one can be assured of two things:
1. Wardle is in deep doodoo
2. Bross, or at the very least, his mother must have a hyphen in their last name.

I love how this kid's mother is trying to protect her poor baby from embarrassment by letting the whole world know he sh:t his pants at basketball practice. And she's trying to ruin a guy's entire career in the process.

Wardle may not be concerned, but even if half true it shows he cannot evaluate people very well and if he vetoed the classes that he doesn't really care about the student athletes dreams or desires.  The course may have been hard, but as a coach if you are concerned about that you find a way to make it work for everyone.  And someone other than Bross may have taken the ribbing/abuse? in stride and developed into a better player.  Sounds like Bross is not that kind of a person.  He needed a different approach.  Coaches need to be able to evaluate how to get the best out of the player and being a dick/hard ass/pretty boy to Bross clearly did not work. 

So even though Wardle may not be concerned, I suspect this limits his job prospects in the future.  If I was a Division I Athletic Director I would have serious concerns about his ability to judge people individually and bring a team together.  Clearly the relationship with Bross  was not at a level where that stuff worked.  Kinda like a post I saw the other day.  Four people were holding up a sign that said "We miss you."  A fifth person was holding up a sign that said "Die *%^&#."  The note under the four was "friends" and under the fifth was "best friend."  The caption, "How to tell the difference."  You develop the ability to use those terms in strong relationships where the underlying meaning is understood and the love is simply present.

This isn't the whole story.  Let the investigation run its course before passing judgement.  And remember, there is a difference between being an abusive coach a la Mike Rice and simply a coach that makes a series of poor judgments.

The last line of his quote is classic

"So I just want someplace where the students coming in and the guys here, so that they don't get all the crap that happened to me."

Quote from: LittleMurs on April 29, 2013, 11:08:08 PM
It seems like it still has a ways to run, but that Brian isn't too worried about being exonerated.  I guess we'll see.  I was surprised to see that Wardle would have veto power over what classes a player could take when the class didn't interfere with practice.

Unfortunately, this is not all that uncommon in college athletics. When Greg Oden got to tOSU he wanted to be on a pre-dental plan (biology major, I assume?) but was basically told "no" and was enrolled in blow-off gen eds.

This kind of makes me wonder why James(?) Matthews beat the crap out of Wardle when they were scrimaging? It came across as Matthews had an out of control temper and he was shown the door by Crean, but maybe he at least had some reason to be mad at Wardle. For those of you who either forgot or were not around at that time, James was a 6'8" forward from Michigan that was suppose to be a strong rebounder. Wardle was an assistant on Crean's staff. They were scrimaging each other and Matthews had to be pulled off Wardle after he got mad at Wardle during their one on one scrimage.

Quote from: bilsu on April 30, 2013, 09:12:02 AM
This kind of makes me wonder why James(?) Matthews beat the crap out of Wardle when they were scrimaging? It came across as Matthews had an out of control temper and he was shown the door by Crean, but maybe he at least had some reason to be mad at Wardle. For those of you who either forgot or were not around at that time, James was a 6'8" forward from Michigan that was suppose to be a strong rebounder. Wardle was an assistant on Crean's staff. They were scrimaging each other and Matthews had to be pulled off Wardle after he got mad at Wardle during their one on one scrimage.

I thought it was fairly common knowledge that Brian Wardle was kind of a douche.

You guys are taking the side of the kid who soiled himself? In what universe does that happen and the offender is never reminded of it?

What is this world coming to?

if I was this kid, I would have kept my mouth shut
Now there is a multiparagraph article on how he crap his britches online.

Quote from: PuertoRicanNightmare on April 30, 2013, 09:29:12 AM
You guys are taking the side of the kid who soiled himself? In what universe does that happen and the offender is never reminded of it?

What is this world coming to?

I'm not defending the kid.  If he didn't want to lift weights until he crapped his pants, he didn't have to.  Wardle couldn't FORCE him to sit there and do it.

I was just saying that Wardle has been a known douche.

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 30, 2013, 09:26:25 AM
I thought it was fairly common knowledge that Brian Wardle was kind of a douche.

Did this become common knowledge after his playing days?

I went to school with Wardle. Knew him a bit socially. Did some projects with his now wife. Nothing struck me different then any other kid. Then again, it was college and hazy.

Quote from: Golden Avalanche on April 30, 2013, 10:31:23 AM
Did this become common knowledge after his playing days?

I went to school with Wardle. Knew him a bit socially. Did some projects with his now wife. Nothing struck me different then any other kid. Then again, it was college and hazy.

I don't know.  I went to school at the same time, and I've heard stories.

I think Wardle might be looking for new line of work in the near future.

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 30, 2013, 10:45:03 AM
I don't know.  I went to school at the same time, and I've heard stories.

Well "stories" you heard at school = just the kind of evidence needed in this discussion.

The only fact that appears to be agreed upon at this junction is that this dude dumped his drawers.

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 30, 2013, 09:26:25 AM
I thought it was fairly common knowledge that Brian Wardle was kind of a douche.

He's no Kinsella, but he's up there.

Agree with Goose, Wardle should look for a different line of work.  Apparently, he doesn't have the temperament to teach or coach. 

I have to say that article is .. believable.

I've never met Wardle, but in watching the MU vs. UWGB games the past couple years I was shocked by his sideline demeanor.  I've never seen a more obvious Crean imitator, it was odd to say the least.

ESPN Picked up the story

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9227839/ryan-bross-details-allegations-uw-green-bay-phoenix-coach-brian-wardle

Green Bay forward Alec Brown told local radio station WNFL he was "very surprised" by the allegations, which he refuted.

"Honestly, I don't agree with the things that are being said," Brown said. "I've been there the longest of any of the guys, and I feel like if I had personally seen any of this happening, I wouldn't still be here. A lot of this stuff is not happening the way it seems that it is."

When asked whether he thinks his teammates are lying, Brown responded: "Yeah, I believe so."

As a parent, I would rarely side with a kid telling his parents to "shut the fock up."  But if the kid said that to his mom in this case, he'd be totally justified.

Until the day he dies, everyone who googles this kid's name will learn that he was the kid who crapped in his pants at basketball practice...in college.  Every future employer, the parents of future girlfriends.  Everybody.  Gee, thanks mom!

Quote from: Ari Gold on April 30, 2013, 03:00:24 PM

Green Bay forward Alec Brown told local radio station WNFL he was "very surprised" by the allegations, which he refuted.

"Honestly, I don't agree with the things that are being said," Brown said. "I've been there the longest of any of the guys, and I feel like if I had personally seen any of this happening, I wouldn't still be here. A lot of this stuff is not happening the way it seems that it is."

When asked whether he thinks his teammates are lying, Brown responded: "Yeah, I believe so."

I don't know the whole story, but:
- Players and parents making claims about coach
- Players indicating other players may be lying
- Not a good situation no matter the facts

Quote from: Ari Gold on April 30, 2013, 03:00:24 PM
ESPN Picked up the story

http://espn.go.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/9227839/ryan-bross-details-allegations-uw-green-bay-phoenix-coach-brian-wardle

Green Bay forward Alec Brown told local radio station WNFL he was "very surprised" by the allegations, which he refuted.

"Honestly, I don't agree with the things that are being said," Brown said. "I've been there the longest of any of the guys, and I feel like if I had personally seen any of this happening, I wouldn't still be here. A lot of this stuff is not happening the way it seems that it is."

When asked whether he thinks his teammates are lying, Brown responded: "Yeah, I believe so."

Of course that is how Brown is going to respond.  School wouldn't let him go on the radio if he was going to say anything different.

Question .. the article states he was a walk-on .. but also, after telling them he was going to transfer "After that, he (Wardle) forces me to go to practice because he wouldn't give me my transfer" ..

Um .. if he's a walk-on, why does he need permission to transfer?  Plus, what's Wardle going to do, not let the kid play for freaking Concordia after he leaves? 

Wardle will not survive this. The university will will can his sorry ass.

This is worth listening to: Alec Brown, Keifer Sykes, and Prss Gazette's Rob Demovsky all joined the Maino and Nick show on WNFL this morning. Brown and Sykes strongly supporting Wardle. Very interesting stuff - A must listen to:

Alec - http://wnflam.com/podcasts/maino-and...ns-show-43013/

Keifer - http://wnflam.com/podcasts/maino-and...ns-show-43013/

Rob - http://wnflam.com/podcasts/maino-and...ky-back-43013/

Link: http://www.phearthephoenix.proboards...#ixzz2RyxOhaGp

Quote from: mu_hilltopper on April 30, 2013, 03:45:48 PM
Question .. the article states he was a walk-on .. but also, after telling them he was going to transfer "After that, he (Wardle) forces me to go to practice because he wouldn't give me my transfer" ..

Um .. if he's a walk-on, why does he need permission to transfer?  Plus, what's Wardle going to do, not let the kid play for freaking Concordia after he leaves? 

Those were my questions also.  Plus, if he is a walk-on he could literally just stop going to practice, stop everything with the team.  What are they going to do?

Quote from: TheTulsaWarrior on April 30, 2013, 03:57:15 PM
This is worth listening to: Alec Brown, Keifer Sykes, and Prss Gazette's Rob Demovsky all joined the Maino and Nick show on WNFL this morning. Brown and Sykes strongly supporting Wardle. Very interesting stuff - A must listen to:

Alec - http://wnflam.com/podcasts/maino-and...ns-show-43013/

Keifer - http://wnflam.com/podcasts/maino-and...ns-show-43013/

Rob - http://wnflam.com/podcasts/maino-and...ky-back-43013/

Link: http://www.phearthephoenix.proboards...#ixzz2RyxOhaGp

None of your links work

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on April 30, 2013, 04:00:48 PM
Those were my questions also.  Plus, if he is a walk-on he could literally just stop going to practice, stop everything with the team.  What are they going to do?

Yup, no one was forcing him to do anything.

The dilemma here as well is if you suspend him, you'll have people questioning just because of the Rice/Rutgers fall out.  Justified or not...

You lost the PR battle when ESPN picks it up and puts you in the same sentence as Rice and Rutgers.

Since 1990, the only way a 4-year player for MU could miss the NCAAs was to enroll in the Fall of '97.  Brian was lucky enough to headline that class.  Oh LeDaryl.

Bross must have been doing the Majerus drill.

http://wnflam.com/podcasts/maino-and-nick-show/keifer-sykes-joins-show-43013/

http://collegebasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/04/30/uw-green-bay-center-alec-brown-a-lot-of-the-stuff-thats-been-said-is-not-true/

Quote from: Warriors10 on April 30, 2013, 04:40:08 PM
The dilemma here as well is if you suspend him, you'll have people questioning just because of the Rice/Rutgers fall out.  Justified or not...

You lost the PR battle when ESPN picks it up and puts you in the same sentence as Rice and Rutgers.

Yep--and as everybody knows ESPN is the model of PC, except they are usually wrong when they go there.

Quote from: willie warrior on April 30, 2013, 06:31:29 PM
Yep--and as everybody knows ESPN is the model of PC, except they are usually wrong when they go there.

Oh I wasn't saying ESPN was always correct, or nearly almost correct, that was not the point.  I was just saying that ESPN picked up the story and got it out to everybody outside of the 920 and 414 area codes and from there UW-GB will have a hard time making light of this situation.

Below is a tweet from former UWGB player and now color analyst for the GB radio broadcasts and the response from the Green Bay Press-Gazette reporter.

Sad to see where "journalism" has gone. Not what they taught me at MU. Apparently not at Kansas either... where my wife went to J-school. She was just as disappointed.

Cordero Barkley tweet: @ImCBarks: So in the age of leaks, gossips, etc. you are telling me GBPress Gazette ran a story with this significance with no other eyewitnesses to...

GB Press-Gazette reporter response: @RobDemovsky: @ImCBarks Not our job to corroborate. What he alleges is news. Nowhere does it say it's true. Just allegations. U r smart enuff to see that

Quote from: Doc on April 30, 2013, 11:43:45 PM

GB Press-Gazette reporter response: @RobDemovsky: @ImCBarks Not our job to corroborate. What he alleges is news...Nowhere does it say it's true. Just allegations.

Good Lord that is shocking. I am dumbfounded a credible journalist would actually write that. In what way does this guy see himself as a responsible journalist?

Quote from: Warriors10 on April 30, 2013, 07:39:27 PM
Oh I wasn't saying ESPN was always correct, or nearly almost correct, that was not the point.  I was just saying that ESPN picked up the story and got it out to everybody outside of the 920 and 414 area codes and from there UW-GB will have a hard time making light of this situation.

Not criticizing you. ESPN actually believes they are the social conscience of today--except they usually get it wrong. There have been plenty of examples of their PC (Limbaugh, Kornheiser, now Broussard, and such fine examples as Lupica, Greenberg and Wilbon's pontificating). Yet, did they ever say much about Pitino's shenanigans? ESPN believes they are it when it comes to PC.

Quote from: keefe on May 01, 2013, 02:03:30 AM
Good Lord that is shocking. I am dumbfounded a credible journalist would actually write that. In what way does this guy see himself as a responsible journalist?

Demovsky is a very good journalist.  He was simply telling the player's side of the story.  It wasn't meant to be a definitive report.

Quote from: Terror Skink on May 01, 2013, 08:36:50 AM

Demovsky is a very good journalist.  He was simply telling the player's side of the story.  It wasn't meant to be a definitive report.

To say it's not a journalist's job to corroborate a story, however, seems more like the stance of the National Enquirer. Very poor choice of words, in my opinion.

http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaab-the-dagger/accusations-against-brian-wardle-true-then-job-jeopardy-172703736.html

Yahoo story today. 

Quote from: Doc on May 01, 2013, 08:43:14 AM
To say it's not a journalist's job to corroborate a story, however, seems more like the stance of the National Enquirer. Very poor choice of words, in my opinion.

I think that's the follow-up story. I know that sort of sucks for Brian, but that's how it works.

The allegations were made. That is a fact. That was reported.

The outcome or truth of those allegations will come out and reported in subsequent stories.

Similar to reporting that a person was charged with a crime. It's not a journalists job to immediately find out if the person is guilty. It's just his job to report that the person was charged with a crime.

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on May 01, 2013, 09:08:28 AM
I think that's the follow-up story. I know that sort of sucks for Brian, but that's how it works.

The allegations were made. That is a fact. That was reported.

The outcome or truth of those allegations will come out and reported in subsequent stories.

Similar to reporting that a person was charged with a crime. It's not a journalists job to immediately find out if the person is guilty. It's just his job to report that the person was charged with a crime.

I understand. In my opinion, however, that (reporting the university is investigating charges against Wardle) was done in the initial story. This goes a lot deeper, and I think it's the reporter's job to do everything s/he can to ensure there's some basis to what s/he is reporting.

I understand Wardle isn't talking/can't talk, but I believe the reporter needs to do some investigating to get some of the other players to give their versions.

The reporter is saying he's following UWGB's process to request interviews with current players and is being denied, but that seems to be a little too easy of an answer for me.

In cases like this, I believe a reporter needs to do some investigating and try to get those quotes to either corroborate or refute the allegations being made – even if s/he is "violating" the university's policy for requesting interviews. The radio station did it live on the air.

It's a tough debate on how to handle. You can make arguments on both sides.

Quote from: Doc on May 01, 2013, 10:18:50 AM
I understand. In my opinion, however, that (reporting the university is investigating charges against Wardle) was done in the initial story. This goes a lot deeper, and I think it's the reporter's job to do everything s/he can to ensure there's some basis to what s/he is reporting.

I understand Wardle isn't talking/can't talk, but I believe the reporter needs to do some investigating to get some of the other players to give their versions.

The reporter is saying he's following UWGB's process to request interviews with current players and is being denied, but that seems to be a little too easy of an answer for me.

In cases like this, I believe a reporter needs to do some investigating and try to get those quotes to either corroborate or refute the allegations being made – even if s/he is "violating" the university's policy for requesting interviews. The radio station did it live on the air.

It's a tough debate on how to handle. You can make arguments on both sides.

Your points are valid. The only thing I'll add is that these are amateur athletes, so I don't know if I like the idea of a reporter sneaking around the university's policies to see if they can get a kid to talk about an internal investigation.

These kids are not trained media reps, and they could easily misspeak and cause a lot of drama for no reason. Now, that's not necessarily the reporter's fault, but ultimately, reporters have to walk a fine line of who they should and shouldn't talk to, especially when it comes to young people.

It's case by case, I guess.

In this day and age people are presumed guilty if Charged. . I thought the press was bound to corroborate their information or at least follow up with both sides. Don't see that much anymore

Quote from: elephantraker on May 01, 2013, 10:29:11 AM
In this day and age people are presumed guilty if Charged. . I thought the press was bound to corroborate their information or at least follow up with both sides. Don't see that much anymore

Where do you see that these stories haven't sought/obtained comment from Wardle and UWGB officials?

Quote from: elephantraker on May 01, 2013, 10:29:11 AM
In this day and age people are presumed guilty if Charged. . I thought the press was bound to corroborate their information or at least follow up with both sides. Don't see that much anymore

I guess you didn't bother to read the *fifth* paragraph of the article which said:

"The 33-year-old Wardle, who has a 47-49 record in three seasons as head coach, declined comment but issued a statement."

If you are going to make a complaint about the state of journalism today, and least READ the article in question.

Quote from: Terror Skink on May 01, 2013, 08:36:50 AM

Demovsky is a very good journalist.  He was simply telling the player's side of the story.  It wasn't meant to be a definitive report.

Problem is that since people often read only one thing, it becomes "valid" in the eyes of many.  I have no idea if the story is true or not, but if it isn't then the Gazette has damaged Wardle considerably with the story. 


And if that is the case, as is often the case with the media, a retraction (if they bother), would be on page A28....if the allegations aren't true.


There's a reason why a positive view of the media is below 40%

Quote from: Pakuni on May 01, 2013, 10:32:24 AM
Where do you see that these stories haven't sought/obtained comment from Wardle and UWGB officials?

They have, but they also know full well that neither can comment because of legal reasons.  So one party is free to say what they want while the accused is stuck having to hold their tongue on any specifics, and must resort to general responses.

Again, no idea if what he is accused of is factual or not, but more than a few innocent folks have been tried in the press over the years.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 01, 2013, 10:42:10 AM
Problem is that since people often read only one thing, it becomes "valid" in the eyes of many.  I have no idea if the story is true or not, but if it isn't then the Gazette has damaged Wardle considerably with the story.  

So, what do you suggest? Ignore serious, public allegations and an investigation of a key figure at one of the city's most important institutions? A publicly funded institution? Ignore the fact the university goes public with an investigation?
The Gazette hasn't damaged Wardle. The accusations, perhaps, but not the fact they were reported.
I find your complaint particularly ironic given that you were the guy all-too-happy to spread rumors of Buzz Williams and his "squirmy"-ness. At least the Gazette is quoting named sources and giving the accused every opportunity to respond.

QuoteAnd if that is the case, as is often the case with the media, a retraction (if they bother), would be on page A28....if the allegations aren't true.

What would be retracted?
If the kid's lying, that will be reported.
If Wardle is cleared, that will be reported.
Yeah, it sucks for Wardle that the allegations are made public. That's the price one pays for choosing a high profile, public profession. He's free to go work at Target if he doesn't like the fact his job (and therefore his behavior) is in the public eye.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 01, 2013, 10:43:40 AM
They have, but they also know full well that neither can comment because of legal reasons.  So one party is free to say what they want while the accused is stuck having to hold their tongue on any specifics, and must resort to general responses.

What are you talking about? What legal reasons? No one's accused of anything criminal here, nor is there any pending litigation (though, admittedly, that could change). But even so, if there were a lawsuit, that would in no way prevent Wardle or anyone else from saying whatever they please.

Nobody is trying anyone here.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 01, 2013, 10:43:40 AM
They have, but they also know full well that neither can comment because of legal reasons.  So one party is free to say what they want while the accused is stuck having to hold their tongue on any specifics, and must resort to general responses.

Yes, one party is free to say what they want. And yes, the accused has to hold his tongue. That sucks for Wardle, but it's life in the not-so-big city.

It is the media's job to report on relevant stories. The Press-Gazette did that here and did it quite well.

Bross's run and dump is cousin to the pump and dump.

https://www.youtube.com/v/fg3qj5I-28A

Quote from: Stone Cold on May 01, 2013, 11:36:10 AM
Bross's run and dump is cousin to the pump and dump.

https://www.youtube.com/v/fg3qj5I-28A

That sequence with Woody is classic. He should have received an Academy Award nomination for that scene alone. And this is basketball related as he starred in White Men Can't Jump. A poll question: Who is hotter, the land lady or Rosie Perez?

Wardle was right, this kid is soft and a huge piece of sh!t. He should have just transferred and gone on with his life rather than try to ruin someones career and make a program take a step backwards. I think that he forgot he was a walk-on which is a job that requires you to be the whipping boy of the team. Then to bring your mom into the situation to fight your battles is beyond ridiculous.

College is the time you become independent and a man.  Kid should have left mom out and handled his business with Wardle/ media if he didn't appreciate the oops I crapped my pants moment.  

Regardless, there are more to what is going on at UWGB than this guy.

I'm sure it's horrifying.  This could become the first post-Rice slippery meet slope case.

Quote from: Pakuni on May 01, 2013, 10:52:53 AM
So, what do you suggest? Ignore serious, public allegations and an investigation of a key figure at one of the city's most important institutions? A publicly funded institution? Ignore the fact the university goes public with an investigation?
The Gazette hasn't damaged Wardle. The accusations, perhaps, but not the fact they were reported.
I find your complaint particularly ironic given that you were the guy all-too-happy to spread rumors of Buzz Williams and his "squirmy"-ness. At least the Gazette is quoting named sources and giving the accused every opportunity to respond.

What would be retracted?
If the kid's lying, that will be reported.
If Wardle is cleared, that will be reported.
Yeah, it sucks for Wardle that the allegations are made public. That's the price one pays for choosing a high profile, public profession. He's free to go work at Target if he doesn't like the fact his job (and therefore his behavior) is in the public eye.

Wish I had an easy answer.  Part of it, however, is how things have changed with reporting. Let's not kid ourselves, there are stories that journalists have hid from the public to protect politicians, athletes, etc over the years...some very famous ones that eventually got out because someone came forward and we learned that writers were sitting on it for months or even a year to protect their guy.  I can tell you a few fun ones from Green Bay and the Packers over a beer sometime.

Let's also not forget that it used to be the practice of writers to be damn sure about things before they reported them, that has all been thrown out the window in the last decade plus as well.  So I don't have an easy answer to your question except for one thing, though its not enforceable.  When the media does these stories and they turn out wrong, there should be an attempt with equal vigor to report on the correction, even if it puts that news organization in a bad light.  It won't happen.  We all know the lead-up and drip drip drip of stories can be weeks or months.  The conclusion is often covered in a few days, with much less coverage.

Coach did this
Coach accused of this.
Mother of player says coach did this
Lawyer hired to investigate
More stories from player
ETc
etc
etc
wash
Repeat





Oops, coach exonerated....on to the next story


Not saying this will happen here, because for all we know Wardle did this.  Who knows.  Unfortunately, the rush to report the allegations never seems to match the reporting if the allegations are false.  Plenty of people burned mightily as a result.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 01, 2013, 02:06:14 PM

Let's also not forget that it used to be the practice of writers to be damn sure about things before they reported them, that has all been thrown out the window in the last decade plus as well. 

You have an awfully naive view of the history of journalism if you believe that this is new.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 01, 2013, 02:06:14 PM
  When the media does these stories and they turn out wrong, there should be an attempt with equal vigor to report on the correction,

Cue Michael Irvin...

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 01, 2013, 02:06:14 PM
Wish I had an easy answer.  Part of it, however, is how things have changed with reporting. Let's not kid ourselves, there are stories that journalists have hid from the public to protect politicians, athletes, etc over the years...some very famous ones that eventually got out because someone came forward and we learned that writers were sitting on it for months or even a year to protect their guy.  I can tell you a few fun ones from Green Bay and the Packers over a beer sometime.

This still happens, trust me. That said, for what reason would any media outlet sit on this story? A public institution that spends millions upon millions of taxpayer dollars every year publicly states they're conducting this investigation into serious allegations against a high-profile employee... and you think they should sit on it?
I don't think that's ever happened in the history of journalism. It's one thing to hold back on a simple allegation - that happens a lot, you just don't know it because it never gets published - but when it's a public body that publicly states it? You run that 1,000 out of 1,000 times.

QuoteLet's also not forget that it used to be the practice of writers to be damn sure about things before they reported them, that has all been thrown out the window in the last decade plus as well.

Oh come now. We've had actual wars started over unverified media reports. This is hardly something new, and I'd suggest things are far, far better than they were decades ago. Go read some turn of the (20th) century newspapers. I think you might be surprised at how much journalistic standards have changed for the better.
That doesn't mean the modern media is above poor reporting and poor reporters, but I think you're pining for a day gone by that never actually existed.

But, speaking to this example in particular, what did the reporter possibly get wrong? I would think that the people of Green Bay and Wisconsin have a legitimate interest in knowing what wrongdoing a high-profile, highly paid state employee is accused of. And that's what was reported here .... the kid's accusations against Wardle. There's not judgment, or statement that this is fact. To the contrary, the story is laced with words and phrases like "allegations" and "according to Bross."

Quote from: Terror Skink on May 01, 2013, 01:33:50 PM
Regardless, there are more to what is going on at UWGB than this guy.

Wardle is toast.

4ever

IMO that is understatement of the year. Surprised he is not out the door already.

Quote from: Pakuni on May 01, 2013, 10:55:23 AM
What are you talking about? What legal reasons? No one's accused of anything criminal here, nor is there any pending litigation (though, admittedly, that could change). But even so, if there were a lawsuit, that would in no way prevent Wardle or anyone else from saying whatever they please.

Nobody is trying anyone here.

I believe for legal reasons Wardle, etc have been asked to not comment on the investigation, including the issue of Federal Privacy Laws.  I would assume those are for legal manners around his job, the school, etc, and any resolutions that may come of this.  I would imagine he is not comment on advice from counsel.


"I cannot comment on the specific allegations under federal privacy laws....."
-Brian Wardle, April 30, 2013 

Quote from: Terror Skink on May 01, 2013, 02:17:36 PM

You have an awfully naive view of the history of journalism if you believe that this is new.

Relatively new.  I think anyone taking a journalism class from an old timer can confirm.  Anyone who had a chance to talk with George Reedy at Marquette would probably share this view.  Other old time journalists who are appalled at today's journalistic standards.  Tom Brokaw, et al, have opined in the last few years on this topic.

There have been a few great lectures and papers on the changes in journalism since the 24/7 news cycle started and only further put on steroids with Twitter, blogging, etc.  Things have changed.  Sure, it's been around, but much more pronounced in the last 15 years, but I don't disagree that it didn't happen prior to that....not to the level it does today or the volume.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 01, 2013, 06:46:20 PM
Relatively new.  I think anyone taking a journalism class from an old timer can confirm.  Anyone who had a chance to talk with George Reedy at Marquette would probably share this view.  Other old time journalists who are appalled at today's journalistic standards.  Tom Brokaw, et al, have opined in the last few years on this topic.

There have been a few great lectures and papers on the changes in journalism since the 24/7 news cycle started and only further put on steroids with Twitter, blogging, etc.  Things have changed.  Sure, it's been around, but much more pronounced in the last 15 years, but I don't disagree that it didn't happen prior to that....not to the level it does today or the volume.

Old people opine on a lot on the grand old days that only really existed in their minds...when in reality things only changed both for better and for worse.

Jonathon Brandmeier was having a field day this morning on WGN radio talking about the kid who messed his pants.  He mentioned Wardle being the 7th all time leading scorer for Marquette.

Quote from: Pakuni on May 01, 2013, 03:12:20 PM
This still happens, trust me. That said, for what reason would any media outlet sit on this story? A public institution that spends millions upon millions of taxpayer dollars every year publicly states they're conducting this investigation into serious allegations against a high-profile employee... and you think they should sit on it?
I don't think that's ever happened in the history of journalism. It's one thing to hold back on a simple allegation - that happens a lot, you just don't know it because it never gets published - but when it's a public body that publicly states it? You run that 1,000 out of 1,000 times.

Oh come now. We've had actual wars started over unverified media reports. This is hardly something new, and I'd suggest things are far, far better than they were decades ago. Go read some turn of the (20th) century newspapers. I think you might be surprised at how much journalistic standards have changed for the better.
That doesn't mean the modern media is above poor reporting and poor reporters, but I think you're pining for a day gone by that never actually existed.

But, speaking to this example in particular, what did the reporter possibly get wrong? I would think that the people of Green Bay and Wisconsin have a legitimate interest in knowing what wrongdoing a high-profile, highly paid state employee is accused of. And that's what was reported here .... the kid's accusations against Wardle. There's not judgment, or statement that this is fact. To the contrary, the story is laced with words and phrases like "allegations" and "according to Bross."

I don't think you sit on it, to your point it is in the public interest.  Where I think the writer failed (just my opinion), is properly painting a picture up front that this happened in a vacuum, no witnesses, etc.  It wasn't until several weeks later that other players opinions on Wardle acted or coached were brought into the picture.  So you end up tainting the pool a bit, IMO. 

In my view, this is a bit of human nature.  There is this guy accused of doing this thing so you run with it.  And, you might even find another player out there that also had a run in....equals a pattern, so you run with that.   What's missing is some context.  Did the player have an axe to grind?  Did the writer investigate that?  What did other players think?  If this is how he treated this one player, did he treat the team like this? 

I just keep thinking Duke Lacrosse case here...Dan Rather George Bush Vietnam war memo fax from Kinkos....Richard Jewell.....etc....people accused of something that was wildly wrong when the truth came out.  (Maybe Trayvon Martin next, who knows).

Quote from: Terror Skink on May 01, 2013, 06:49:45 PM

Old people opine on a lot on the grand old days that only really existed in their minds...when in reality things only changed both for better and for worse.

+1

"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for
authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place
of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their
households. They no longer rise when elders enter the room. They
contradict their parents, chatter before company, gobble up dainties
at the table, cross their legs, and tyrannize their teachers."

1st said by socrates and said by every generation since.

Surprised this wasn't posted but yesterday Novak tweeted

@uwgb As a former player of Brian Wardle I know his level of class, decency & professionalism exceeds the false allegations being reported.

It was later deleted, but still, why?  You have nothing to gain saying that, just negatives.

Quote from: Warriors10 on May 01, 2013, 11:53:37 PM
Surprised this wasn't posted but yesterday Novak tweeted

@uwgb As a former player of Brian Wardle I know his level of class, decency & professionalism exceeds the false allegations being reported.

It was later deleted, but still, why?  You have nothing to gain saying that, just negatives.

I think that human nature is that you initially want to reach out to help when you see someone you care about in trouble.  Whether Wardle is a friend, mentor or just former coach to Steve.  At some point after you think about it more you get your last sentence, that there is nothing to gain just negatives by putting yourself out there which leads to deleting the comment.  Just what would be going through my mind at least, I can't speak for Steve.

There are people who runaway from a car wreck and those who run toward it.  Maybe his agent said you don't want to be in the middle of this one -- there's no percentage for you.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 01, 2013, 06:55:52 PM
I don't think you sit on it, to your point it is in the public interest.  Where I think the writer failed (just my opinion), is properly painting a picture up front that this happened in a vacuum, no witnesses, etc.  It wasn't until several weeks later that other players opinions on Wardle acted or coached were brought into the picture.  So you end up tainting the pool a bit, IMO. 

In my view, this is a bit of human nature.  There is this guy accused of doing this thing so you run with it.  And, you might even find another player out there that also had a run in....equals a pattern, so you run with that.   What's missing is some context.  Did the player have an axe to grind?  Did the writer investigate that?  What did other players think?  If this is how he treated this one player, did he treat the team like this? 

I just keep thinking Duke Lacrosse case here...Dan Rather George Bush Vietnam war memo fax from Kinkos....Richard Jewell.....etc....people accused of something that was wildly wrong when the truth came out.  (Maybe Trayvon Martin next, who knows).

A reporter is not a jury. While investigative journalism involves research and corroboration, there is also nothing wrong with reporting a fact (an allegation has been made) and running with that.

If a news organization starts withholding that kind of stuff, where do they draw the line. "Well, this girl alleges she was raped, but let's not report it. We don't really know what happened."

Report the facts (an allegation has been made, that's a fact) and let the public decide.

If the public is too fat, dumb and lazy to decipher allegations from actually truths or convictions, then that's on the fat, dumb and stupid.

There seems to be four kinds of posters on the various message boards commenting on this investigation.  Bross and Cougill who have put their names out and made specific allegations – a number of past and present players who have put their name out in support of Wardle (Novak, LeSage, Barkley, Brown, Sykes, etc.)  – A lynch mob either for or against Bross and Cougill – the final group are a couple posters who claim to be "former division one players."   These "anonymous" athletes say those who question Bross and Cougill don't know anything about how division one sports really works.  That is a fair criticism but it would carry more weight if they put their name with the comment.

As a life time journalist I would ask myself why is someone leaking information and why are they unwilling to put their name with the information?  What do they hope to gain by telling me a story?  Are they playing me?

This investigation is serious stuff.  Lives could be changed forever.  We all need to be damn sure we're not part of a lynch mob, for either side.

Quote from: Terror Skink on May 01, 2013, 06:49:45 PM

Old people opine on a lot on the grand old days that only really existed in their minds...when in reality things only changed both for better and for worse.

Older people are wiser than people give them credit for. 

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on May 02, 2013, 08:37:09 AM
A reporter is not a jury. While investigative journalism involves research and corroboration, there is also nothing wrong with reporting a fact (an allegation has been made) and running with that.

If a news organization starts withholding that kind of stuff, where do they draw the line. "Well, this girl alleges she was raped, but let's not report it. We don't really know what happened."

Report the facts (an allegation has been made, that's a fact) and let the public decide.

If the public is too fat, dumb and lazy to decipher allegations from actually truths or convictions, then that's on the fat, dumb and stupid.

When facts are withheld, how is the public able to decide?  How are they fat, dumb and stupid if the writer decides to withhold key pieces of information, even if unintentional?  One can only consume the facts are given.

Case in point.

Brian Wardle called a player a p^ssy and f^%%ot.


Or, Brian Wardle called a player a p^ssy and f^%%ot but there were no witnesses to this event.


Both are statements of fact....which one is more clear and MORE factual and gives the reader more information to make up their mind so they aren't fat, dumb and stupid?

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 02, 2013, 09:05:51 AM
Older people are wiser than people give them credit for. 

Did I say otherwise?

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 02, 2013, 09:11:30 AM
When facts are withheld, how is the public able to decide?  How are they fat, dumb and stupid if the writer decides to withhold key pieces of information, even if unintentional?  One can only consume the facts are given.

Case in point.

Brian Wardle called a player a p^ssy and f^%%ot.


Or, Brian Wardle called a player a p^ssy and f^%%ot but there were no witnesses to this event.

Both are statements of fact....which one is more clear and MORE factual and gives the reader more information to make up their mind so they aren't fat, dumb and stupid?

I'm not sure whether either is fact or not, or that anything is being withheld.
But regardless, the story doesn't present Wardle calling the player these names as fact. It presents it as Bross' claim, i.e. this is what Bross says happened to him.
As G n' A says, if some readers are too dumb to distinguish the difference, that's on them.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 02, 2013, 09:11:30 AM
When facts are withheld, how is the public able to decide?  How are they fat, dumb and stupid if the writer decides to withhold key pieces of information, even if unintentional?  One can only consume the facts are given.

Case in point.

Brian Wardle called a player a p^ssy and f^%%ot.


Or, Brian Wardle called a player a p^ssy and f^%%ot but there were no witnesses to this event.


Both are statements of fact....which one is more clear and MORE factual and gives the reader more information to make up their mind so they aren't fat, dumb and stupid?

They are reporting what the actual allegation is. That is a fact. Here. Is. The. Allegation. Fact. Boom. Print.

They asked Wardle for comment. He couldn't/wouldn't.

If new details come to light, then so be it. Not every story is an investigative piece. The police blotter gets printed without additional facts or consideration.

Quote from: Pakuni on May 02, 2013, 09:26:37 AM
I'm not sure whether either is fact or not, or that anything is being withheld.
But regardless, the story doesn't present Wardle calling the player these names as fact. It presents it as Bross' claim, i.e. this is what Bross says happened to him.
As G n' A says, if some readers are too dumb to distinguish the difference, that's on them.

Fair point, not statements of fact.

The example still holds, however,...is it more complete information for the writer to say this happened with no witnesses or to leave that information out and let the reader guess?  How is the reader supposed to know if this happened in practice with 10 other guys or off to the side where no one heard it unless the writer tells the reader?  I think there is a lot of painting of people being stupid, fat, dumb, whatever but the people can only go with the facts that are presented.  

How many times on this board alone do people say "you left this little tidbit of information out" or "you failed to mention X, Y, Z".  Same concept.

BTW, do you still think there is no legal issue on why Wardle cannot respond?

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on May 02, 2013, 09:45:52 AM
They are reporting what the actual allegation is. That is a fact. Here. Is. The. Allegation. Fact. Boom. Print.

They asked Wardle for comment. He couldn't/wouldn't.

If new details come to light, then so be it. Not every story is an investigative piece. The police blotter gets printed without additional facts or consideration.

Disagree.  When asking the player what the allegation was, a simple follow-up.  "Did anyone else hear Wardle say this?  Were there any witnesses?  Those are serious allegations Mr. Player, was anyone else around to hear them?"

Boom.  Print the complete event.  This isn't hard, and a journalist should do his utmost to present the complete picture. Part of the journalists responsibility is to pull out those details by asking questions....basic questions.  We're not talking about a 60 Minutes investigative piece, just basic questions.   

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on May 02, 2013, 09:45:52 AM
They are reporting what the actual allegation is. That is a fact. Here. Is. The. Allegation. Fact. Boom. Print.

They asked Wardle for comment. He couldn't/wouldn't.

If new details come to light, then so be it. Not every story is an investigative piece. The police blotter gets printed without additional facts or consideration.

so, fact is, this is the allegation, however, the allegation has not been proven to be fact, right?

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 02, 2013, 09:48:18 AM
Fair point, not statements of fact.

The example still holds, however,...is it more complete information for the writer to say this happened with no witnesses or to leave that information out and let the reader guess?  How is the reader supposed to know if this happened in practice with 10 other guys or off to the side where no one heard it unless the writer tells the reader?  I think there is a lot of painting of people being stupid, fat, dumb, whatever but the people can only go with the facts that are presented.

Maybe I've missed it, but where is the undisputed fact that there were no witnesses? And if that fact has been withheld by the media, then how do you know about it?

Quote
BTW, do you still think there is no legal issue on why Wardle cannot respond?

Yes, there is no legal issue preventing Wardle from responding. It's potentially smart legal strategy - you don't want to get tied into one story now and be forced to tell another in court if it gets that far - but there's no legal issue here. There's no gag order. It's not medical information protected by HIPPA. It's not an educational record as protected by FERPA. I cannot think of a single federal law that would prevent Wardle from saying "these things did not occur as they've been alleged."
Just because someone cites "federal privacy laws" as an excuse not to answer a question doesn't mean that such a law exists. Here's a summary of existing federal privacy laws. Which one applies?

https://www.cdt.org/privacy/guide/protect/laws.php#ferpa

Quote from: ATWizJr on May 02, 2013, 09:59:00 AM
so, fact is, this is the allegation, however, the allegation has not been proven to be fact, right?

The allegation may or may not be fact, but an allegation has been made, that is a fact.

I'm fine with a newspaper reporting that there is an allegation, and what the allegation is.

Brian will either be cleared, or not.

Unfortunately, that's the way things work for people in the public eye.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 02, 2013, 09:05:51 AM
Older people are wiser than people give them credit for. 

I'm asking my kids/grandkids for a framed copy of your post for Father's Day.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 02, 2013, 10:22:40 AM
I'm asking my kids/grandkids for a framed copy of your post for Father's Day.

Good luck with that....by the time they realize it, you're likely gone and buried.   ;)    Just like we all saw our parents shaking their heads at times when we were teenagers, now we get to do the same thing with ours and we remember fondly..."now I understand what mom and dad were trying to tell me".  LOL

Quote from: Pakuni on May 02, 2013, 10:06:12 AM
Maybe I've missed it, but where is the undisputed fact that there were no witnesses? And if that fact has been withheld by the media, then how do you know about it?

Yes, there is no legal issue preventing Wardle from responding. It's potentially smart legal strategy - you don't want to get tied into one story now and be forced to tell another in court if it gets that far - but there's no legal issue here. There's no gag order. It's not medical information protected by HIPPA. It's not an educational record as protected by FERPA. I cannot think of a single federal law that would prevent Wardle from saying "these things did not occur as they've been alleged."
Just because someone cites "federal privacy laws" as an excuse not to answer a question doesn't mean that such a law exists. Here's a summary of existing federal privacy laws. Which one applies?

https://www.cdt.org/privacy/guide/protect/laws.php#ferpa

Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I believe on two separate occasions he has cited the inability to respond due to Federal Privacy laws.  I suspect university lawyers, or his own, instructed him to respond in that fashion.  That's what I'm basing it on.....I'm certainly not a lawyer even if I do have to work with them several hours each day.   ;D

On the eye witness stuff, I think this article at least attempts to get some information from the other side, including the concerns of Wardle about the writer's lack of interviews of eye-witnesses.

http://wearegreenbay.com/1fulltext-sports-brewersmlb?nxd_id=193592


The GB writer may have this dead to nuts right, I guess we'll find out soon enough.  I'm hesitant, however, after Duke Lacrosse, Richard Jewell, Bush fax memo, etc, etc where the media sometimes looks for a conclusion (IMO) and follows the leads to get to the conclusion without looking at other criteria.  Is that happening here? I don't know, but I do think it would have been fairer and more proper reporting to paint a more complete picture.  A man is accused of some serious stuff here, the media needs to be careful in how they report.

QuoteIt is clear the article is trying to influence an on-going investigation. Character assassination of Brian Wardle's impeccable reputation cannot be tolerated. We are reviewing all of Brian Wardle's legal options."

Maybe I'm missing something, but can someone explain to me how Wardle's attorney is making this conclusion?  The last Press Gazette article only refreshed the background story, then explained what the contents of the letter and details of the accusations.  At no point did I see any commentary that would lead me to think the writer is swayed one way or the other.

Quote from: TheTulsaWarrior on May 02, 2013, 09:05:06 AM
As a life time journalist I would ask myself why is someone leaking information and why are they unwilling to put their name with the information?  What do they hope to gain by telling me a story?  Are they playing me?

As a journalist that would absolutely be the proper thing to ask.

But hopefully you also know why it is necessary to be anonymous at times.

Yep

Agree that Wardle is toast.  Let's move on.  He should.

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on May 02, 2013, 08:37:09 AM
A reporter is not a jury. While investigative journalism involves research and corroboration, there is also nothing wrong with reporting a fact (an allegation has been made) and running with that.

If a news organization starts withholding that kind of stuff, where do they draw the line. "Well, this girl alleges she was raped, but let's not report it. We don't really know what happened."

Report the facts (an allegation has been made, that's a fact) and let the public decide.

If the public is too fat, dumb and lazy to decipher allegations from actually truths or convictions, then that's on the fat, dumb and stupid.

Do you really believe what you just wrote?

Looks like that lawyer is still taking his sweet time.  Thankfully no lawyers had to investigate the Boston bombing.

Quote from: willie warrior on May 01, 2013, 12:20:55 PM
That sequence with Woody is classic. He should have received an Academy Award nomination for that scene alone. And this is basketball related as he starred in White Men Can't Jump. A poll question: Who is hotter, the land lady or Rosie Perez?

Come on- that's not even a question.  Rosie was pretty hot- until she started talking....

Quote from: Stone Cold on May 03, 2013, 12:14:39 PM
Looks like that lawyer is still taking his sweet time.  Thankfully no lawyers had to investigate the Boston bombing.

Yes, because this is exactly like a terrorist attack with its perpetrators on the loose.
Fantastic comparison.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 02, 2013, 09:11:30 AM
When facts are withheld, how is the public able to decide?  How are they fat, dumb and stupid if the writer decides to withhold key pieces of information, even if unintentional?  One can only consume the facts are given.

Case in point.

Brian Wardle called a player a p^ssy and f^%%ot.


Or, Brian Wardle called a player a p^ssy and f^%%ot but there were no witnesses to this event.


Both are statements of fact....which one is more clear and MORE factual and gives the reader more information to make up their mind so they aren't fat, dumb and stupid?

Very well put.

Quote from: robertoc on May 03, 2013, 01:38:21 PM

Come on- that's not even a question.  Rosie was pretty hot- until she started talking....

I was not referring to any talking skills.

Quote from: Pakuni on May 01, 2013, 10:52:53 AM

I find your complaint particularly ironic given that you were the guy all-too-happy to spread rumors of Buzz Williams and his "squirmy"-ness. At least the Gazette is quoting named sources and giving the accused every opportunity to respond.

Irony of ironies when the self annointed hypocrisy exposer is himself exposed.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 03, 2013, 05:27:08 PM
Irony of ironies when the self annointed hypocrisy exposer is himself exposed.

Not really...I've admitted to being a hypocrite at times.  Try it some time, it can be refreshing to admit one's mistakes.  There is always a first time Lenny

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 05, 2013, 12:49:35 AM
Not really...I've admitted to being a hypocrite at times.  Try it some time, it can be refreshing to admit one's mistakes.  There is always a first time Lenny

True

Is Wardle still standing?  Or has he left the building (UWGB)?

Lawyer's still milking the cow.

God love lawyers...

(http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/1760159/laughing.gif)

You realize the report was submitted right?

What's the conclusion?

Quote from: Stone Cold on May 20, 2013, 08:40:45 PM
What's the conclusion?

It's private for something like 10 days to give Wardle a chance to respond.

I see.  Maybe a positive for Wardle, this thing has had some good simmer down time.

Longtime college sports fan. WAY too much time and effort is being spent, publicly, on this "investigation." I am not a BW supporter or hater and have witnessed many coaching styles and players over time.

I guess we'll soon hear the results of the "internal investigation" and see where the chips fall but some thoughts while we wait......

It sounds like BW is a vocal, antagonistic, pusher of a coach. Loud, strong willed and self driven. This is not a judgment of good or bad, mind you. It's just his style it seems. Sounds like Bross is a guy with visible talent (height) that hasn't been used, developed or coached very much up to now. Looks like BW was pushing him and Bross wasn't mature, man enough, to take it or respond accordingly.

So he crapped his pants? So what? None of our business really. Ever been in a boot camp in the Marines?? You think those guys aren't pushed and mentally challenged daily? You have to stand up and "be a man" and deal with it and letters from home aren't going to help. Dealing with it involves his own choice on a course of action.... One of which is nothing, not responding, which is what he did...... and the result. Which is what it sounds like. If the style of treatment couldn't be handled why hadn't he chosen to leave...at any time...if he couldn't bear it?? Free country you know and he wasn't under any obligation to stay. And, again, I'm not condoning or agreeing with BW's style just saying the young man has choices HE needs to make on his own and live with them. Yes, this ISN'T the military and lives aren't or won't be on the line but he needs to grow up anyway....

Sounds like BW doesn't use "coffee hour" language and terminology in practice either. per Cougill. Not my personal choice as a model for a coach or motivation but I certainly don't have all the answers. Word has it that "beloved" Al McGuire had a vocal, physical style of his own...... Different than BW? Bob Knight? Anyone been though a coach K season?? You think he's a "kid's gloves" type guy or we haven't "publicly" investigated him because he's won championships and doesn't throw chairs..... Belittled and intimidating words are just that....words. "Sticks and stones" sound familiar to you?

The Rutger's situation?? Really now. I know this thought is going to piss off some folks but let's be real here, again. So he pushes guys around? So what? Some of these college kids are big people, size wise, and incredibly immature and stupid, yes stupid, and need to listen and do as they are told. Sometimes you have to get their attention to do so..... The video I saw showed him pushing a kid.... Maybe he didn't understand the "when this happens you go here" concept of a play for the 100th time??? Ahhh what's the use............ You ever coach? Where are the whips and chains?? Surely the scars are visible somewhere, right?

I'm not condoning anyone's actions or styles but also not saying that some young men need to mature and grow up, as well. I'm also not saying I agree with any or all of the above mentioned coaches or methods referred to but don't feel we should evaluate their styles in public, either.

Everything in life isn't fair or equal. You WILL work for bosses that you don't like or don't like you. Coaches you have a problem working with. You will not always get the recognition and praise for a job well done. Other people will take credit for work you did or ideas you had. You will be backstabbed somewhere along the line. And all the time YOU will have choices to make and courses of action to determine by yourself and reaction to judge. Again, not making any actions right or condoning them myself but it has been written we/our kids are getting soft, emotionally and physically, and maybe they need to toughen up a bit to live in the big bad world.....

Hey, if BW IS actually disciplined or fired for whatever reason I hear Kevin O'Neal is looking for a job.......... Might make BW look like a softy...   



Read more: http://phearthephoenix.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=222&page=10#ixzz2Ty7A1HTD

That's certainly not an update.  Your statement is a lot of hot air.

Quote from: axaguy on May 21, 2013, 05:31:01 PM
Longtime college sports fan. WAY too much time and effort is being spent, publicly, on this "investigation."

In the wake of the Rutgers allegations, UWGB pretty much had to conduct this investigation.

Do you really think their constituents would be satisfied with your parallels to being in a boot camp?  Not a chance.

I guess I really don't think constituents can understand. Basketball teams are not the Marines, for sure, and consequences of failure aren't dire but sometimes people need to be pushed and challenged for them to excel or exceed their own ranges of acceptance and performance. "Mommy" can't save a person from the Marines, in any event, but listening, cooperation, obedience and TEAMWORK are integral in the institution for all to succeed and some harsh measures are used to inspire, instill and separate the candidates, with no remorse. No kid gloves......

I guess the main question is what constitutes abuse and what constitutes "tough love." I guess we are going to have to let the courts decide our fate, parenting, teaching and leadership boundaries  like other things we couldn't resolve without "someone" defining the rules. There's the old. "What won't kill me makes me stronger," concept...... Romper Room or Mr Roger's neighborhood tactics may not be the answer either. I'll bet almost all the players on Rutgers out weigh or are taller/bigger than the coach. My concern, or his should be, is if a player responded by putting him on his backside.....which I wouldn't fault the kid for and shouldn't surprise the coach, if he's fully considered the consequences of his actions. Sometimes things backfire, too, and he's got to recognize and be ready for that..... Maybe that's what he's looking for, too....... Ahhhhh would a reaction be assault? Self defense? Manning up??? Would the coach sue the school for not protecting him....... Ahhhhh, Another decision for the courts.... 

This used to be a great nation...

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSouQsBmMf83tqiZVEwouvxoqT1VmpdE3GqavPe4eNDhvzXerYo9w)

(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQvBw7c8ZH2QCFdU-aV2uG5W1MY1w-7rJGnaLkOXvPn93yvKKR3)

(https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTUQvlNv6KxSR5FBAl0Wo7jHVNdIYF3oCvmgTpnQ7G2-TpJsvLc)

(https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcS1oMy7td-SO4UKx2mocqCrU6UDPmGv_FSa1G7NCQBdq_e17FLF)

(https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSxBqpGn7cGCUynIn6Co_2agfoa7nYOPRBTz8Rfrl6qw8TWLkad)

(http://www.strijdbewijs.nl/film/omaha.jpg)

(http://www.tomlea.net/images/Lea.AcePilot-lg.jpg)

(http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/020925-O-9999G-104.jpg)



(http://bikiniwaxchronicles.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/pee-sitting.jpg)

John Wayne.  Right.   ::)

How many people were forced to crap on themselves to land a man on the moon?

Quote from: axaguy on May 23, 2013, 05:45:33 PM
I guess I really don't think constituents can understand. Basketball teams are not the Marines, for sure, and consequences of failure aren't dire but sometimes people need to be pushed and challenged for them to excel or exceed their own ranges of acceptance and performance. "Mommy" can't save a person from the Marines, in any event, but listening, cooperation, obedience and TEAMWORK are integral in the institution for all to succeed and some harsh measures are used to inspire, instill and separate the candidates, with no remorse. No kid gloves......

I guess the main question is what constitutes abuse and what constitutes "tough love." I guess we are going to have to let the courts decide our fate, parenting, teaching and leadership boundaries  like other things we couldn't resolve without "someone" defining the rules. There's the old. "What won't kill me makes me stronger," concept...... Romper Room or Mr Roger's neighborhood tactics may not be the answer either. I'll bet almost all the players on Rutgers out weigh or are taller/bigger than the coach. My concern, or his should be, is if a player responded by putting him on his backside.....which I wouldn't fault the kid for and shouldn't surprise the coach, if he's fully considered the consequences of his actions. Sometimes things backfire, too, and he's got to recognize and be ready for that..... Maybe that's what he's looking for, too....... Ahhhhh would a reaction be assault? Self defense? Manning up??? Would the coach sue the school for not protecting him....... Ahhhhh, Another decision for the courts.... 

"Tough love" is sometimes blurry, especially from the outside looking in.

However, I would/will challenge coaches and teachers to improve their motivational techniques. I'm not saying there isn't any place for tough love, certainly there is. But, just because something is "old school" doesn't mean it's better.

Coaches used to view drinking water during practice as weakness. I'm pretty sure we're past that, right?

Keep evolving.

Quote from: sarcastro on May 23, 2013, 08:24:01 PM
John Wayne.  Right.   ::)

How many people were forced to crap on themselves to land a man on the moon?

Alan Arkin has a great line in Argo on that.  "John Wayne's in the ground six months, and this is what's left of America."

John Wayne the actor never went to war, was divorced twice, and had multiple affairs.  He was extremely vain (wore a toupee), a drunk, a bigot, and a chain smoker.  Someone we should obviously all strive to be just like.

Made some cool movies though.

Clint Eastwood >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John Wayne

And it isn't even that close.

Quote from: keefe on May 23, 2013, 06:35:37 PM
This used to be a great nation...

So, how did it fall apart on your watch?

It's an honest question.  You have unreal verbal skills and I bet absolute top of the charts intelligence, and you are spending your time posting pictures on a basketball message board about it.  Is that all you got?

Quote from: axaguy on May 23, 2013, 05:45:33 PM
I guess I really don't think constituents can understand. Basketball teams are not the Marines, for sure, and consequences of failure aren't dire but sometimes people need to be pushed and challenged for them to excel or exceed their own ranges of acceptance and performance. "Mommy" can't save a person from the Marines, in any event, but listening, cooperation, obedience and TEAMWORK are integral in the institution for all to succeed and some harsh measures are used to inspire, instill and separate the candidates, with no remorse. No kid gloves......

I guess the main question is what constitutes abuse and what constitutes "tough love." I guess we are going to have to let the courts decide our fate, parenting, teaching and leadership boundaries  like other things we couldn't resolve without "someone" defining the rules. There's the old. "What won't kill me makes me stronger," concept...... Romper Room or Mr Roger's neighborhood tactics may not be the answer either. I'll bet almost all the players on Rutgers out weigh or are taller/bigger than the coach. My concern, or his should be, is if a player responded by putting him on his backside.....which I wouldn't fault the kid for and shouldn't surprise the coach, if he's fully considered the consequences of his actions. Sometimes things backfire, too, and he's got to recognize and be ready for that..... Maybe that's what he's looking for, too....... Ahhhhh would a reaction be assault? Self defense? Manning up??? Would the coach sue the school for not protecting him....... Ahhhhh, Another decision for the courts....  

First of all, I note your continuing use of strawmen.  This this post, "the courts" are now deciding everything even though "the courts" are not involved in this case whatsoever.  I guess whatever fits your narrative right?

Second, I am not arguing against tough love or pushing or challenging kids to succeed.  But there clearly are boundaries to that.  The problem with your stance on this is that you have no idea what actually happened here, yet you are making judgements.  To be honest, it seems as though you have this negative narrative on society, and you are using this to fit your narrative, yet you have no clue what exactly happened here.  What I have argued from the beginning is that UWGB clearly had to conduct this investigation, and that we should withhold judgement until the report is released.

Quote from: keefe on May 23, 2013, 06:35:37 PM
This used to be a great nation...

I see you had a lot of pics from WWII, how about our current vets?  Forgetting them at all?

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 24, 2013, 07:51:28 AM
John Wayne the actor never went to war, was divorced twice, and had multiple affairs.  He was extremely vain (wore a toupee), a drunk, a bigot, and a chain smoker.  Someone we should obviously all strive to be just like.

Made some cool movies though.

I believe the studios required him to wear the toupee

He also did a lot of great things for people that maybe we should want to emulate.


I vote for the IRS to get involved and check it out.    ;D

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 24, 2013, 10:34:00 AM
I believe the studios required him to wear the toupee

He also did a lot of great things for people that maybe we should want to emulate.


I vote for the IRS to get involved and check it out.    ;D

Oh your humor is boundless.

Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on May 24, 2013, 10:34:00 AM
I vote for the IRS to get involved and check it out.    ;D

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-8pIkaJMP1L0/UPEuaveHuvI/AAAAAAAAH2E/1HufN1U8Fi4/s1600/JackBootedThugs.jpg)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RdbNSX87ewY/T_iaBIQlbSI/AAAAAAAAMkM/yUyYh-H7NXQ/s1600/IRS_swat_team.jpg)

Quote from: LittleMurs on May 24, 2013, 07:55:36 AM
So, how did it fall apart on your watch?

It's an honest question.  You have unreal verbal skills and I bet absolute top of the charts intelligence, and you are spending your time posting pictures on a basketball message board about it.  Is that all you got?

In between posting here last week I got an agreement from the Singapore Vice Minister of Education for the Ministry to donate and ship three 40' containers of English language K-12 textbooks and school supplies every year for 12 orphanages in Nepal.

The first container will arrive in Chennai in mid-August. By the way, I arranged with NOL to ship those containers for free.

In the past month I have gotten pledges totaling $240,000 from two Sand Hill Road VC firms for those same orphanages.

This was all volunteer work. Good enough?

Quote from: keefe on May 24, 2013, 11:58:12 AM
In between posting here last week I got an agreement from the Singapore Vice Minister of Education for the Ministry to donate and ship three 40' containers of English language K-12 textbooks and school supplies every year for 12 orphanages in Nepal.

The first container will arrive in Chennai in mid-August. By the way, I arranged with NOL to ship those containers for free.

In the past month I have gotten pledges totaling $240,000 from two Sand Hill Road VC firms for those same orphanages.

This was all volunteer work. Good enough?

That's all well and good, but how many times did you poop your pants?  You're forgetting what made this country great.

Wardle is being retained by UWGB...but will face some disciplinary measures.  Time to move on.

Quote from: sarcastro on May 24, 2013, 12:02:33 PM
That's all well and good, but how many times did you poop your pants?  You're forgetting what made this country great.

You're forgetting it's not about the pooping, but about what you accomplish after you poop.

That's what makes America great.

If that is what you call discipline. Wardle mostly exonerated.

Quote from: Terror Skink on May 24, 2013, 12:16:13 PM
Wardle is being retained by UWGB...but will face some disciplinary measures.  Time to move on.

Quote from: Guns n Ammo on May 24, 2013, 12:17:01 PM
You're forgetting it's not about the pooping, but about what you accomplish after you poop.

That's what makes America great.

I am pretty good at wiping myself. ;D

QuoteThat's all well and good, but how many times did you poop your pants?  You're forgetting what made this country great.

(http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/961wodz.com/files/2013/01/happiness-al-roker-meme-e1357652685281.jpg)

Quote from: LittleMurs on May 24, 2013, 07:55:36 AM
So, how did it fall apart on your watch?

It's an honest question.  You have unreal verbal skills and I bet absolute top of the charts intelligence, and you are spending your time posting pictures on a basketball message board about it.  Is that all you got?

How did it fall apart?  Simple really.  Not enough people like Keefe, and too many people like, er, well, uh......let's just say not enough people like Keefe.

Quote from: ATWizJr on May 24, 2013, 12:41:16 PM
 

How did it fall apart?  Simple really.  Not enough people like Keefe, and too many people like, er, well, uh......let's just say not enough people like Keefe.

Don't you mean John Wayne?  Does anyone even know if this iteration of Warthog Driver/keefe etc is truthful?  He sure does a lot in this world.  One wonders how he can find the time to post on internet message boards.  I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but I taking someone for their word around here isn't usually normal.  lol  ;D

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 24, 2013, 01:09:47 PM
Don't you mean John Wayne?  Does anyone even know if this iteration of Warthog Driver/keefe etc is truthful?  He sure does a lot in this world.  One wonders how he can find the time to post on internet message boards.  I'm not accusing anyone of anything, but I taking someone for their word around here isn't usually normal.  lol  ;D

Some of us have met and talk off line. I will leave it at that.

Quote from: damuts222 on May 24, 2013, 12:29:59 PM
(http://wac.450f.edgecastcdn.net/80450F/961wodz.com/files/2013/01/happiness-al-roker-meme-e1357652685281.jpg)

Don't ya mean hump?

Venezula ran out of TP a few weeks ago.  The whole damn country did. 

In some countries, they still use their left hands to wipe their ass.  Or leaves.  or sticks.

TP (and John Wayne & Clint Eastwood) is what makes America great.

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 24, 2013, 03:26:39 PM
Venezula ran out of TP a few weeks ago.  The whole damn country did. 

In some countries, they still use their left hands to wipe their ass.  Or leaves.  or sticks.

TP (and John Wayne & Clint Eastwood) is what makes America great.

The convention in Indonesia is left hand and bucket of water. One learns to carry those baby wipes in the 3rd world.

Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 24, 2013, 10:42:01 AM
Oh your humor is boundless.

It's not meant to be humorous really, though all I can do right now is smile at the crapstorm it is causing and every single bit of it deserved. It's ultimately meant to show how sad and pathetic it is that we are dealing with this.  Tip of the iceberg. 

Quote from: Terror Skink on May 24, 2013, 12:16:13 PM
Wardle is being retained by UWGB...but will face some disciplinary measures.  Time to move on.

I guess the predictions that he was toast were a bit premature.

Who did Larry Williams poop on?

I'm calling for an investigation.

(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070903233253/uncyclopedia/images/e/e1/Eating_poop.gif)

Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 24, 2013, 03:26:39 PM


In some countries, they still use their left hands to wipe their ass. 

As a left hander, I guess I'd be sh!t out of luck.

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 24, 2013, 03:51:08 PM
As a left hander, I guess I'd be sh!t out of luck.

Bon appetit!

Quote from: Terror Skink on May 24, 2013, 12:16:13 PM
Wardle is being retained by UWGB...but will face some disciplinary measures.  Time to move on.

Chancellor's statement: http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/assets/pdf/U0205911524.PDF

Quote from: Lennys Tap on May 24, 2013, 03:51:08 PM
As a left hander, I guess I'd be sh!t out of luck.

Hell of a stink-palmer Lenny is!

Wardle interview with Katz.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=katz_andy&id=9309259

Quote from: Gato78 on May 25, 2013, 07:54:01 PM
Wardle interview with Katz.

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=katz_andy&id=9309259

Anyone else find this part "curious".....


Wardle said Crean, now the coach at Indiana, was a tremendous asset during the month-long investigation.

"I was never worried about what they were going to find, never," Crean told ESPN.com Friday. "I told him to stay true to yourself, to your family. You know how your players view you and how strong your relationship is with them."

Crean said his biggest concern was ensuring Wardle had the right attorney to help him navigate the investigation.

"I'm sick over him and his family having to go through this," Crean said. "In the same vein, he will be better for it and will learn a ton about people and their agendas and that will serve him well. I appreciate people supported him and the truth came out."[/b]

How the hell did this thread about Wardle turn into a political commentary about the IRS, Roker, and a ton of other things.

Now if that player was made to crap in his pants, somebody needs to open up the investigation about who made Majerus crap in a towel.

Is Wardle home scott free now? If so, will he get the Father's blessing as Buzz's replacement when he decides to leave. Doesn't Kimberrly Clark still make diapers and are still located in the Neenah area? I'll bet they are making contributions to Wardle's defense fund.

Not sure what you find curious about either statement Another...

Quote from: willie warrior on May 26, 2013, 06:13:10 AM
How the hell did this thread about Wardle turn into a political commentary about the IRS, Roker, and a ton of other things.

Now if that player was made to crap in his pants, somebody needs to open up the investigation about who made Majerus crap in a towel.

Is Wardle home scott free now? If so, will he get the Father's blessing as Buzz's replacement when he decides to leave. Doesn't Kimberrly Clark still make diapers and are still located in the Neenah area? I'll bet they are making contributions to Wardle's defense fund.

Wardle is not the heir apparent.

Quote from: real chili 83 on May 26, 2013, 06:27:41 AM
Wardle is not the heir apparent.

If and when Buzz bolts, this program will be in a better position to attract a more qualified replacement.

The reality is that this episode will always be a part of any conversation concerning Brian Wardle. One is never fully exonerated in such proceedings. Innuendo is an insidiousl weapon. Sun Tzu observed that the whispered word is often more devastating than the frontal assault. Bruises heal but diminished luster persists.

Quote from: Terror Skink on May 26, 2013, 06:24:26 AM
Not sure what you find curious about either statement Another...

Crean said:

Crean said his biggest concern was ensuring Wardle had the right attorney to help him navigate the investigation.

"I'm sick over him and his family having to go through this," Crean said. "In the same vein, he will be better for it and will learn a ton about people and their agendas and that will serve him well. I appreciate people supported him and the truth came out."

After I read this all I could think of was fluoridated water is a communist plot and this.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/Tin_foil_hat_2.jpg)

Quote from: AnotherMU84 on May 26, 2013, 07:06:06 PM

After I read this all I could think of was fluoridated water is a communist plot and this.

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f3/Tin_foil_hat_2.jpg)

In Kubrick's classic, Dr. Strangelove, the paranoid psychotic Gen. Jack D. Ripper pontificates to a stiff-upper lipped RAF Group Captain Lionel Mandrake about the dangers of fluoridated water— a Communist plot to sap the free world of its "precious bodily fluids" as he unleashes thermonuclear Armageddon outside.


Gen Ripper: "Mandrake, have you ever seen a Commie drink a glass of water?"

GC Mandrake: "Well, I can't say that I have."

Gen Ripper: "Vodka, that's what they drink . . . on no account will a Commie ever drink water, and not without good reason . . . Have you never wondered why I drink only distilled water, or rainwater, and only pure-grain alcohol? Have you ever heard of a thing called fluoridation of water? Do you realize that fluoridation is the most monstrously conceived and dangerous Communist plot we have ever had to face?"


(http://www.comicsbeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/jackdripper.jpg)

Peter Sellers was stupendous in that film. Sellers actually played three roles - The President, the President's National Security Adviser Dr. Strangelove (an eerie take on Henry Kissinger,) and RAF Group Captain Lionel Mandrake.

(http://www.dailypress.com/media/photo/2009-05/46747958.jpg)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-xiXNkG3YEZ8/UDKY1nb0zdI/AAAAAAAADMc/qyCilSoVf94/s1600/tumblr_lc1apm1QYK1qd1o58.jpg)

(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_ln-S7XzA0gc/SmYQVifWA2I/AAAAAAAAAE8/rxoHZAdfiUA/s400/Strangelove--01,-Peter-Sellers-as-Dr-Strangelove.jpg)

Peter Sellers was a true comedic genius. It is regrettable that so few today have even heard his name much less witnessed his virtuosity.

Sellers was awesome, and how about George C. Scott as Buck Turgeon, and Chill Wills as the hillbilly pilot.

Quote from: willie warrior on May 26, 2013, 08:39:13 PM
Sellers was awesome, and how about George C. Scott as Buck Turgeon, and Chill Wills as the hillbilly pilot.

Actually, it was Slim Pickens as the BUFF Driver who rode the nuke into Mother Russia in the movie's denouement. Classic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLPnnPHkIuc

(http://markkolier.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/pickens_bomb_rider.jpeg)

Has Wardle been fired yet?

Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on May 29, 2013, 07:55:08 PM
Has Wardle been fired yet?

(http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/60/6004/69DB100Z/posters/j-b-handelsman-hank-when-you-re-finished-firing-this-gentleman-i-have-some-rather-unfor-new-yorker-cartoon.jpg)

I really, really like the New Yorker cartoons.

Quote from: keefe on May 26, 2013, 09:00:47 PM
Actually, it was Slim Pickens as the BUFF Driver who rode the nuke into Mother Russia in the movie's denouement. Classic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RLPnnPHkIuc

(http://markkolier.files.wordpress.com/2013/03/pickens_bomb_rider.jpeg)

Thank you--you are right and I am corrected. Pickens was great.

Vodka is nasty. I prefer Gin Martinis (Beefeaters or Tangueray). Ripper was right. The Ruusskies drink vodka, therefore, vodka is part of the Communist conspiracy.

Slim Pickens was great in Blazing Saddles.

and he was about the best thing in 1941

Quote from: willie warrior on May 30, 2013, 07:09:05 AM
Vodka is nasty. I prefer Gin Martinis (Beefeaters or Tangueray). Ripper was right. The Ruusskies drink vodka, therefore, vodka is part of the Communist conspiracy.

My vodka is made in 'Murrica, so I am being patriotic when I drink it.

And gin hangovers are much nastier than vodka ones.

Quote from: warriorchick on May 30, 2013, 10:10:42 AM
My vodka is made in 'Murrica, so I am being patriotic when I drink it.

And gin hangovers are much nastier than vodka ones.

Q:Why did Hitler stop drinking gin?

A:It made him mean.

Quote from: warriorchick on May 30, 2013, 10:10:42 AM
My vodka is made in 'Murrica, so I am being patriotic when I drink it.

And gin hangovers are much nastier than vodka ones.

Gin is just vodka with botanicals mixed in (juniper, cardamom, coriander, anise, and zest.) There are some nice craft vodkas being produced in the States. I like one done by Rogue out of Oregon. Nicely done with an emphasis on barley in its grain mash. The most overrated vodka is Grey Goose. Brilliantly marketed...P.T. Barnum would be proud.

My favorite gins are Scottish. Hendricks and Caorunn are certainly worth investigating. The Scots have some sway in the lore of gin for it was Highlanders stationed in British India who created the Gin and Tonic as a delivery method for quinine as an anti-malarial.

There is a great case study on Stoli, which was a cheap product in the old USSR. It was PepsiCo's counter trade that converted internationally worthless rubles for Crimean ships, Ukrainian wheat, and Russian vodka. Pepsi put some marketing genius behind Stoli and a brand was born. Fascinating business case, actually.

Quote from: warriorchick on May 30, 2013, 10:10:42 AM
My vodka is made in 'Murrica, so I am being patriotic when I drink it.

Titos?

Quote from: MU B2002 on May 30, 2013, 12:43:47 PM

Titos?

That's good stuff.

Quote from: keefe on May 30, 2013, 12:36:43 PM
The most overrated vodka is Grey Goose. Brilliantly marketed...P.T. Barnum would be proud.

Amen brother.  I truly believe that the bottle costs more to produce than the liquid.

Quote from: Sir Lawrence on May 30, 2013, 04:13:30 PM
Amen brother.  I truly believe that the bottle costs more to produce than the liquid.

If you insist on having French vodka, just go to Costco and get the Kirkland's brand.

Quote from: warriorchick on May 30, 2013, 04:15:31 PM
If you insist on having French vodka, just go to Costco and get the Kirkland's brand.

My father taught me many essential life skills but two of the most compelling are to never watch a Jane Fonda movie and never buy anything French. Scrupulous adherence to both has served me rather well.


(http://www.newsmax.com/CMSPages/GetFile.aspx?guid=5f8234f3-0f7c-4462-8595-bdec37e09f9f&SiteName=Newsmax)

(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_LoPTdkHrjjk/SzHdxeT_0EI/AAAAAAAAGFI/vgZZR2CWDu0/s1600/ww2-second-world-war-two-fall-france-surrenders-pictures-images-photos-french-+soldiers.jpeg)

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-VHUZF0ySrXU/T-H6JcTVOuI/AAAAAAAAD1c/WaQbal_q3DQ/s1600/Corbis-BE048068.jpg)

@Uncle Rico you seein this shi*?

This is a good bump.

When I Google "Brian Wardle," the first thing that pops up is the image from this article.  This article is pure gold.  Latrell Lewis is on his way to bringing Journalism back.

https://www.bradleyscout.com/voice/mens-basketball-head-coach-brian-wardle-announces-departure-from-peoria-after-10-seasons/

"This article is a part of the April Fools' Day edition, The Scoop, and is not meant to be taken seriously."

Cannot be a coincidence