Update on Wardle allegations

[keefe]

When facts are withheld, how is the public able to decide?  How are they fat, dumb and stupid if the writer decides to withhold key pieces of information, even if unintentional?  One can only consume the facts are given.

Case in point.

Brian Wardle called a player a p^ssy and f^%%ot.


Or, Brian Wardle called a player a p^ssy and f^%%ot but there were no witnesses to this event.


Both are statements of fact....which one is more clear and MORE factual and gives the reader more information to make up their mind so they aren't fat, dumb and stupid?

Very well put.

[willie warrior]

Come on- that's not even a question.  Rosie was pretty hot- until she started talking....

I was not referring to any talking skills.

[Lennys Tap]

I find your complaint particularly ironic given that you were the guy all-too-happy to spread rumors of Buzz Williams and his "squirmy"-ness. At least the Gazette is quoting named sources and giving the accused every opportunity to respond.

Irony of ironies when the self annointed hypocrisy exposer is himself exposed.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Irony of ironies when the self annointed hypocrisy exposer is himself exposed.

Not really...I've admitted to being a hypocrite at times.  Try it some time, it can be refreshing to admit one's mistakes.  There is always a first time Lenny

[Sunbelt15]

Not really...I've admitted to being a hypocrite at times.  Try it some time, it can be refreshing to admit one's mistakes.  There is always a first time Lenny

True

[Stretchdeltsig]

Is Wardle still standing?  Or has he left the building (UWGB)?

[Blackhat]

Lawyer's still milking the cow.

[Blackhat]

God love lawyers...

[GGGG]

You realize the report was submitted right?

[Blackhat]

What's the conclusion?

[GGGG]

What's the conclusion?

It's private for something like 10 days to give Wardle a chance to respond.

[Blackhat]

I see.  Maybe a positive for Wardle, this thing has had some good simmer down time.

[axaguy]

Longtime college sports fan. WAY too much time and effort is being spent, publicly, on this "investigation." I am not a BW supporter or hater and have witnessed many coaching styles and players over time.

I guess we'll soon hear the results of the "internal investigation" and see where the chips fall but some thoughts while we wait......

It sounds like BW is a vocal, antagonistic, pusher of a coach. Loud, strong willed and self driven. This is not a judgment of good or bad, mind you. It's just his style it seems. Sounds like Bross is a guy with visible talent (height) that hasn't been used, developed or coached very much up to now. Looks like BW was pushing him and Bross wasn't mature, man enough, to take it or respond accordingly.

So he crapped his pants? So what? None of our business really. Ever been in a boot camp in the Marines?? You think those guys aren't pushed and mentally challenged daily? You have to stand up and "be a man" and deal with it and letters from home aren't going to help. Dealing with it involves his own choice on a course of action.... One of which is nothing, not responding, which is what he did...... and the result. Which is what it sounds like. If the style of treatment couldn't be handled why hadn't he chosen to leave...at any time...if he couldn't bear it?? Free country you know and he wasn't under any obligation to stay. And, again, I'm not condoning or agreeing with BW's style just saying the young man has choices HE needs to make on his own and live with them. Yes, this ISN'T the military and lives aren't or won't be on the line but he needs to grow up anyway....

Sounds like BW doesn't use "coffee hour" language and terminology in practice either. per Cougill. Not my personal choice as a model for a coach or motivation but I certainly don't have all the answers. Word has it that "beloved" Al McGuire had a vocal, physical style of his own...... Different than BW? Bob Knight? Anyone been though a coach K season?? You think he's a "kid's gloves" type guy or we haven't "publicly" investigated him because he's won championships and doesn't throw chairs..... Belittled and intimidating words are just that....words. "Sticks and stones" sound familiar to you?

The Rutger's situation?? Really now. I know this thought is going to piss off some folks but let's be real here, again. So he pushes guys around? So what? Some of these college kids are big people, size wise, and incredibly immature and stupid, yes stupid, and need to listen and do as they are told. Sometimes you have to get their attention to do so..... The video I saw showed him pushing a kid.... Maybe he didn't understand the "when this happens you go here" concept of a play for the 100th time??? Ahhh what's the use............ You ever coach? Where are the whips and chains?? Surely the scars are visible somewhere, right?

I'm not condoning anyone's actions or styles but also not saying that some young men need to mature and grow up, as well. I'm also not saying I agree with any or all of the above mentioned coaches or methods referred to but don't feel we should evaluate their styles in public, either.

Everything in life isn't fair or equal. You WILL work for bosses that you don't like or don't like you. Coaches you have a problem working with. You will not always get the recognition and praise for a job well done. Other people will take credit for work you did or ideas you had. You will be backstabbed somewhere along the line. And all the time YOU will have choices to make and courses of action to determine by yourself and reaction to judge. Again, not making any actions right or condoning them myself but it has been written we/our kids are getting soft, emotionally and physically, and maybe they need to toughen up a bit to live in the big bad world.....

Hey, if BW IS actually disciplined or fired for whatever reason I hear Kevin O'Neal is looking for a job.......... Might make BW look like a softy...   



Read more: http://phearthephoenix.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=222&page=10#ixzz2Ty7A1HTD

[Stretchdeltsig]

That's certainly not an update.  Your statement is a lot of hot air.

[GGGG]

Longtime college sports fan. WAY too much time and effort is being spent, publicly, on this "investigation."

In the wake of the Rutgers allegations, UWGB pretty much had to conduct this investigation.

Do you really think their constituents would be satisfied with your parallels to being in a boot camp?  Not a chance.

[axaguy]

I guess I really don't think constituents can understand. Basketball teams are not the Marines, for sure, and consequences of failure aren't dire but sometimes people need to be pushed and challenged for them to excel or exceed their own ranges of acceptance and performance. "Mommy" can't save a person from the Marines, in any event, but listening, cooperation, obedience and TEAMWORK are integral in the institution for all to succeed and some harsh measures are used to inspire, instill and separate the candidates, with no remorse. No kid gloves......

I guess the main question is what constitutes abuse and what constitutes "tough love." I guess we are going to have to let the courts decide our fate, parenting, teaching and leadership boundaries  like other things we couldn't resolve without "someone" defining the rules. There's the old. "What won't kill me makes me stronger," concept...... Romper Room or Mr Roger's neighborhood tactics may not be the answer either. I'll bet almost all the players on Rutgers out weigh or are taller/bigger than the coach. My concern, or his should be, is if a player responded by putting him on his backside.....which I wouldn't fault the kid for and shouldn't surprise the coach, if he's fully considered the consequences of his actions. Sometimes things backfire, too, and he's got to recognize and be ready for that..... Maybe that's what he's looking for, too....... Ahhhhh would a reaction be assault? Self defense? Manning up??? Would the coach sue the school for not protecting him....... Ahhhhh, Another decision for the courts.... 

[keefe]

This used to be a great nation...

[sarcastro]

John Wayne.  Right.  

How many people were forced to crap on themselves to land a man on the moon?

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I guess I really don't think constituents can understand. Basketball teams are not the Marines, for sure, and consequences of failure aren't dire but sometimes people need to be pushed and challenged for them to excel or exceed their own ranges of acceptance and performance. "Mommy" can't save a person from the Marines, in any event, but listening, cooperation, obedience and TEAMWORK are integral in the institution for all to succeed and some harsh measures are used to inspire, instill and separate the candidates, with no remorse. No kid gloves......

I guess the main question is what constitutes abuse and what constitutes "tough love." I guess we are going to have to let the courts decide our fate, parenting, teaching and leadership boundaries  like other things we couldn't resolve without "someone" defining the rules. There's the old. "What won't kill me makes me stronger," concept...... Romper Room or Mr Roger's neighborhood tactics may not be the answer either. I'll bet almost all the players on Rutgers out weigh or are taller/bigger than the coach. My concern, or his should be, is if a player responded by putting him on his backside.....which I wouldn't fault the kid for and shouldn't surprise the coach, if he's fully considered the consequences of his actions. Sometimes things backfire, too, and he's got to recognize and be ready for that..... Maybe that's what he's looking for, too....... Ahhhhh would a reaction be assault? Self defense? Manning up??? Would the coach sue the school for not protecting him....... Ahhhhh, Another decision for the courts.... 

"Tough love" is sometimes blurry, especially from the outside looking in.

However, I would/will challenge coaches and teachers to improve their motivational techniques. I'm not saying there isn't any place for tough love, certainly there is. But, just because something is "old school" doesn't mean it's better.

Coaches used to view drinking water during practice as weakness. I'm pretty sure we're past that, right?

Keep evolving.

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

John Wayne.  Right.  

How many people were forced to crap on themselves to land a man on the moon?

Alan Arkin has a great line in Argo on that.  "John Wayne's in the ground six months, and this is what's left of America."

[Hards Alumni]

John Wayne the actor never went to war, was divorced twice, and had multiple affairs.  He was extremely vain (wore a toupee), a drunk, a bigot, and a chain smoker.  Someone we should obviously all strive to be just like.

Made some cool movies though.

[GGGG]

Clint Eastwood >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> John Wayne

And it isn't even that close.

[Dawson Rental]

This used to be a great nation...

So, how did it fall apart on your watch?

It's an honest question.  You have unreal verbal skills and I bet absolute top of the charts intelligence, and you are spending your time posting pictures on a basketball message board about it.  Is that all you got?

[GGGG]

I guess I really don't think constituents can understand. Basketball teams are not the Marines, for sure, and consequences of failure aren't dire but sometimes people need to be pushed and challenged for them to excel or exceed their own ranges of acceptance and performance. "Mommy" can't save a person from the Marines, in any event, but listening, cooperation, obedience and TEAMWORK are integral in the institution for all to succeed and some harsh measures are used to inspire, instill and separate the candidates, with no remorse. No kid gloves......

I guess the main question is what constitutes abuse and what constitutes "tough love." I guess we are going to have to let the courts decide our fate, parenting, teaching and leadership boundaries  like other things we couldn't resolve without "someone" defining the rules. There's the old. "What won't kill me makes me stronger," concept...... Romper Room or Mr Roger's neighborhood tactics may not be the answer either. I'll bet almost all the players on Rutgers out weigh or are taller/bigger than the coach. My concern, or his should be, is if a player responded by putting him on his backside.....which I wouldn't fault the kid for and shouldn't surprise the coach, if he's fully considered the consequences of his actions. Sometimes things backfire, too, and he's got to recognize and be ready for that..... Maybe that's what he's looking for, too....... Ahhhhh would a reaction be assault? Self defense? Manning up??? Would the coach sue the school for not protecting him....... Ahhhhh, Another decision for the courts....  

First of all, I note your continuing use of strawmen.  This this post, "the courts" are now deciding everything even though "the courts" are not involved in this case whatsoever.  I guess whatever fits your narrative right?

Second, I am not arguing against tough love or pushing or challenging kids to succeed.  But there clearly are boundaries to that.  The problem with your stance on this is that you have no idea what actually happened here, yet you are making judgements.  To be honest, it seems as though you have this negative narrative on society, and you are using this to fit your narrative, yet you have no clue what exactly happened here.  What I have argued from the beginning is that UWGB clearly had to conduct this investigation, and that we should withhold judgement until the report is released.

[Abode4life]

This used to be a great nation...

I see you had a lot of pics from WWII, how about our current vets?  Forgetting them at all?