I like the toughness and defensive mindedness that this team has taken on as an identity, but we're playing low-scoring games while trying to play up-tempo. It is ugly to watch. We need to recruit players who can put the ball in the hole. Duane Wilson is a nice start, but he needs to find the weight room before he will be effective in the Big East. He can knock down the jumper and finish at the rim, but he will have less space and won't be able to get to the rim at will like he can in Division 4 WIAA basketball.
Deonte Burton is going to *seem* like a bust his first 2 years, just like Vander Blue *seemed* like a bust his first 2 years to many (the untrained eye). He's playing in the WIAA and taking advantage of the fact that he's built like a bull. He plays forward and plays LIKE a forward. His shot is just as ugly as Vander Blue's is, if not more ugly. Right now he dominates because he's 6'5" and can play above the rim against the Farm Boys of Nowhere. He can handle the rock better than a forward, but he will find the going to get tough when he realizes he can't just out-physical Big East players like he could the City Conference. He will be the new favorite to be termed a "bust" on this board.
McKay I admittedly haven't seen play, and have hardly seen any video of him, but if he wasn't a well known name in Milwaukee high school basketball 2 years ago out of high school then he must not have been very good (Milwaukee isn't exactly a basketball hotbed for high school student athletes...especially not until recently). I understand that he can improve in a 2 year span, but he is playing against JUCO competition, which is not the Big East. I do like that he will have a chip on his shoulder and Buzz's best recruits have all been out of the JUCO ranks. They play with toughness AND can put the ball in the hole (minus Joe Fulce...except from the corners where he was AUTO-MATIC!)...however, he does not seem to be the type of JUCO Buzz has gotten in. He does not have the physical frame of guys like DJO and Jae, and even Buycks. My guess is that he is another guy who is just more athletic than the competition, which won't be the case in the Big East. He is razor thin. Could he be (edited, I originally had a Freudian slip and put Trent Locket, I meant...) Trend Blackledge 2.0? Regardless, we need more JUCOS.
I have also seen very little of JJJ. I am excited about his potential and it sounds like he can score the rock. He plays in a pretty loaded Memphis area, so that is a good thing. He is big for a guard so that is also a good thing. I think he'll end up being a much better player than Kendrick Nunn. That guy was strong but small. He'll be OK, but undersized and not fantastic. JJJ could be fantastic from what it sounds like, but we shall see.
Let's get some traditional shooters, baby!
And how, pray tell, shall we get these new players, seeing how we are already oversigned next year. Are you actually advocating running players off to make room for JUCO's? Cuz a couple of guys with long posting histories are going to beg to differ. DuWilson and JJJ can get their own shots at will and make them. But, as they will be freshmen next year, it would be silly to count on them to save the world.
Quote from: tower912 on January 10, 2013, 05:22:41 PM
And how, pray tell, shall we get these new players, seeing how we are already oversigned next year. Are you actually advocating running players off to make room for JUCO's? Cuz a couple of guys with long posting histories are going to beg to differ. DuWilson and JJJ can get their own shots at will and make them. But, as they will be freshmen next year, it would be silly to count on them to save the world.
Wilson can get his own shot at will...in Division 4 WIAA basketball. Not exactly the Big East, in my - extremely humble - opinion.
JJJ is doing it at a high *high school* level, but again, nowhere near the Big East, or even the Big Sky, for that matter.
Since when did the teams in the Milwaukee City Conference become the Farm Boys of Nowhere?
Its the City Conference not: Black Earth, Cassville, Port Washington, Elk Mound, the Dells, Phillips, Sheboygan, LaCrosse, South Dakota, etc.
Quote from: We R Final Four on January 10, 2013, 05:38:25 PM
Since when did the teams in the Milwaukee City Conference become the Farm Boys of Nowhere?
Its the City Conference not: Black Earth, Cassville, Port Washington, Elk Mound, the Dells, Phillips, Sheboygan, LaCrosse, South Dakota, etc.
Milwaukee Vincent has played 3 conference game this season...
They have played the likes of De Pere (Farm Boys of Nowhere) and a team from Indiana (probably Farm Boys of Nowhere).
Not to mention, the City Conference is great and all for the WIAA, but again...compare it to the best conferences in California, Florida, Tennessee, Illinois, Ohio, even Indiana. It'd be a joke. This isn't Big East competition. Name the Division 1 talent coming out of the City Conference in the last decade. Again, the talent in Milwaukee is as good as it's ever been, and that's with like 5 Division 1 recruits in coming out of it. Sad.
Worst first post ever?
don't feed the troll...
Troll? Yeah, I just like to go into an in-depth analysis of high school recruits for teams that I do not like, go to their high school games, etc. etc. etc. I also love spending a ton of money to travel to Minneapolis, Cleveland, Nashville, and New Orleans to watch Marquette NCAA Tournament games. Final Fours are cheap enough to travel to and find tickets for, why the heck not go to watch teams I can't stand play?
I apologize for calling it like I see it. We scored 47 points at lowly UWGB. We scored 49 points against Georgetown. We scored 60 points against UW@Madison.
But you're right, our offense is an efficient machine. No worries about scoring the ball.
And you're right, those guys will come in and be immediate studs, like all Marquette freshman basketball players are...
Quote from: TeamOh on January 10, 2013, 05:49:07 PM
Troll? Yeah, I just like to go into an in-depth analysis of high school recruits for teams that I do not like, go to their high school games, etc. etc. etc. I also love spending a ton of money to travel to Minneapolis, Cleveland, Nashville, and New Orleans to watch Marquette NCAA Tournament games. Final Fours are cheap enough to travel to and find tickets for, why the heck not go to watch teams I can't stand play?
I apologize for calling it like I see it. We scored 47 points at lowly UWGB. We scored 49 points against Georgetown. We scored 60 points against UW@Madison.
But you're right, our offense is an efficient machine. No worries about scoring the ball.
And you're right, those guys will come in and be immediate studs, like all Marquette freshman basketball players are...
I do believe the troll doth protest too much
Farm Boys of Nowhere - how about FBN for short?
Thats the one thing I liked in your post.
Quote from: honkytonk on January 10, 2013, 05:53:08 PM
Farm Boys of Nowhere - how about FBN for short?
Thats the one thing I liked in your post.
Haha fair enough, I can go with that.
And more to the point, we are 298th overall in 3 point shooting percentage. 298 out of 347. Not very good. 134th overall in points per game. Pretty mediocre. But if you guys are satisfied with our offense, then I guess that makes me a troll!
TeamOh = Teamdee
Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on January 10, 2013, 05:46:31 PM
Worst first post ever?
+1.
So original poster, who would you rather Buzz recruit instead? A top 10 recruiting class next year won't suffice for you? Please enlighten me, since i don't travel to as many Final Fours and High School games as you.
Quote from: Oldgym on January 10, 2013, 05:56:04 PM
TeamOh = Teamdee
Not quite.
Quote from: JDuquaine on January 10, 2013, 05:58:28 PM
+1.
So original poster, who would you rather Buzz recruit instead? A top 10 recruiting class next year won't suffice for you? Please enlighten me, since i don't travel to as many Final Fours and High School games as you.
I'm hoping next year's recruiting class is the start of a run of better players. It could be a very good class. Nowhere in there did I say I think all of those players will be busts. I don't think they're going to light the world on fire in their Freshman year though. Maybe I'm a troll for thinking that. But if so, name the last freshman who did that for Marquette. I'll be awaiting your response...
Edited: In my original post I meant to say Trend Blackledge.
Quote from: TeamOh on January 10, 2013, 06:01:53 PM
Not quite.
I'm hoping next year's recruiting class is the start of a run of better players. It could be a very good class. Nowhere in there did I say I think all of those players will be busts. I don't think they're going to light the world on fire in their Freshman year though. Maybe I'm a troll for thinking that. But if so, name the last freshman who did that for Marquette. I'll be awaiting your response...
Edited: In my original post I meant to say Trend Blackledge.
Dominic James
You forgot John Dawson. People says he's very underrated.
Quote from: TeamOh on January 10, 2013, 06:01:53 PM
Not quite.
I'm hoping next year's recruiting class is the start of a run of better players. It could be a very good class. Nowhere in there did I say I think all of those players will be busts. I don't think they're going to light the world on fire in their Freshman year though. Maybe I'm a troll for thinking that. But if so, name the last freshman who did that for Marquette. I'll be awaiting your response...
Edited: In my original post I meant to say Trend Blackledge.
I'm not sure what "light the world on fire" means... Are you expecting a double double average as a freshman, or what exactly?
Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on January 10, 2013, 06:07:41 PM
Dominic James
Good call. He was very good as a freshman. That is one in the last 10 years. I'm not getting my hopes up that we will have 3 in one year, plus a JUCO on top of that.
Quote from: hilltopper03 on January 10, 2013, 06:08:25 PM
You forgot John Dawson. People says he's very underrated.
Ahh, you are right. I completely forgot about him, which seems to be happening a lot to him. Hopefully he will have a nice career at Marquette. I cannot see him contributing to the effort to score the rock next season, but I do think we could see a career trajectory like that of Derrick Wilson. Find a niche his freshman year and do that well for his spot minutes, gain some confidence going into his sophomore year, then become the starter his junior and senior years and be solid.
Have never seen him play at all though.
Who in the BE over the years would you say were great as freshmen?
Quote from: TeamOh on January 10, 2013, 06:09:09 PM
Good call. He was very good as a freshman. That is one in the last 10 years. I'm not getting my hopes up that we will have 3 in one year, plus a JUCO on top of that.
What team other than Kentucky, UNC, and maybe Duke does have more than one freshman who are big time contributors?
Yeah - cuz if McKay didn't do anything in Milwaukee high school he'll never be anything even if he improves tremendously and goes on to have a great JUCO career! It's not like Crowder, Butler, and to a certain extent DJO fall into that exact same category or anything.
And you keep qualifying everything by saying "yeah, they're doing it at X level but that's not against the Big East." 1.) That's true of every incoming recruit at every single program in the country 2.) The Big East as we know it will likely not even exist by the time they hit campus.
Quote from: JDuquaine on January 10, 2013, 06:08:31 PM
I'm not sure what "light the world on fire" means... Are you expecting a double double average as a freshman, or what exactly?
Not double double, but maybe one of them who averages close to double figures in scoring. I think maybe one could get 7-8 ppg. But I don't see any of them playing more of a roll than a guy like Steve Taylor is this year unless we have some unforeseen exits from contributing players this year (obviously 1 person we don't know about is out after this year, but I don't know if it will be someone who is contributing a lot or not).
Quote from: Jajuannaman on January 10, 2013, 06:11:47 PM
Yeah - cuz if McKay didn't do anything in Milwaukee high school he'll never be anything even if he improves tremendously and goes on to have a great JUCO career! It's not like Crowder, Butler, and to a certain extent DJO fall into that exact same category or anything.
And you keep qualifying everything by saying "yeah, they're doing it at X level but that's not against the Big East." 1.) That's true of every incoming recruit at every single program in the country 2.) The Big East as we know it will likely not even exist by the time they hit campus.
But the C7 is keeping the Big East. It's not like we're going from the Big East Big East to the Division 4 WIAA Big East.
Quote from: JDuquaine on January 10, 2013, 06:11:26 PM
What team other than Kentucky, UNC, and maybe Duke does have more than one freshman who are big time contributors?
That's my point. Nobody on the current roster can light up the scoreboard, besides maybe Gardner, but when he gets doubled hard early off of the catch he is pretty inefficient and turns the ball over a lot. Plus that's a post player who relies on other players to get him the ball in order to score, not a guard who can create his own shot. These freshman are good. But I'm saying they are not going to be All Conference as freshman. And people here are calling me a troll for that. Doesn't make a whole lot of sense.
We need to recruit high school players who have already proven themselves in the Big East!
Wow...This thread is comical. 1st time posters never fail to disappoint me. LOL
Quote from: sarcastro on January 10, 2013, 06:19:24 PM
We need to recruit high school players who have already proven themselves in the Big East!
This wasn't meant to be about the high school recruits we have coming in. But OK. Keep bringing that up.
The point was that we don't score the ball well at all, and we won't next year because freshman are not going to come in and be the stars of the team. It just doesn't happen that way. Hopefully next year's recruiting class is the first of many that has multiple players who can efficiently put the ball in the bucket consistently.
Next year's class is concensus top 10 right now. Though Buzz always keeps recruiting, there isn't room on next year's roster for any more players. So, more realistically, we need the players we have to step up (I am looking at you, JWilson, Vander, and DG) and we need to hope that at least some of our incoming freshmen are able to contribute immediately.
Looking at this year's team, we have more problems on defense than we do on offense.
We need to go back in time and recruit high school players who have proven themselves in the Big East!
Quote from: sarcastro on January 10, 2013, 06:19:24 PM
We need to recruit high school players who have already proven themselves in the Big East!
Best idea ever.
I wasn't aware Wilson and Burton's only competitive basketball has been in backwater places in Wisconsin. It must have been a different Wilson lighting it up against high major recruits in out of state tournaments like the Nike EYBL last spring and summer?
Yeah, and Burton couldn't make a lay up while playing at a high end prep school. Though I agree that with Deonte's body type, he may be the last to make a significant impact.
Quote from: sarcastro on January 10, 2013, 06:27:09 PM
We need to go back in time and recruit high school players who have proven themselves in the Big East!
Crank up the Way-Back Machine.
Name the Division 1 talent coming out of the City Conference in the last decade.
[/quote]
Deonte Burton
Jameel McKay
Diante Garrett
Philip Nolan
Kevon Looney
Dejaunte Wade
Boo Wade
Boo WIlliams
Quemont Greer
Landry Brothers
Denzell Walker
Avery Smith
Deion James
Anthony Hill
Ricky Franklin
Dwight Buycks
Freddie Owens
Etc.
FBN locales--
Milwaukee Luthern
Pius
St. Cats
St. Joes
Germantown
Nicolet
Sussex
Hartland and
Wauwatosa.
Oh yeah, and two from Whitefish Bay as well.
Im imagining sarcastro wearing a super hero costume .... awesome
Quote from: TeamOh on January 10, 2013, 06:01:53 PM
I don't think they're going to light the world on fire in their Freshman year though. Maybe I'm a troll for thinking that.
The VAST MAJORITY of frosh. are either bench warmers or roll players. So, you are not a troll because you think that next year's class isn't going to "light the world on fire". Frankly, I'm not counting on it either. It's very rare.
However, everything else you are saying makes you very troll-like.
The hand wringing over "BETTER PLAYERS!" is lame. Every program wants better players. Good players are a limited commodity. MU and Buzz are doing the best they can, and seem to be trending in the right direction.
Have a beer. Relax.
Quote from: sarcastro on January 10, 2013, 06:19:24 PM
We need to recruit high school players who have already proven themselves in the Big East!
That's the key!!
Lots of interesting new posters since the whole C7 business hit.
Quote from: TeamOh on January 10, 2013, 05:45:01 PM
Milwaukee Vincent has played 3 conference game this season...
They have played the likes of De Pere (Farm Boys of Nowhere) and a team from Indiana (probably Farm Boys of Nowhere).
Not to mention, the City Conference is great and all for the WIAA, but again...compare it to the best conferences in California, Florida, Tennessee, Illinois, Ohio, even Indiana. It'd be a joke. This isn't Big East competition. Name the Division 1 talent coming out of the City Conference in the last decade. Again, the talent in Milwaukee is as good as it's ever been, and that's with like 5 Division 1 recruits in coming out of it. Sad.
It's interesting when Deonte and his team play a team from Indiana they were probably Farmboys......But when you decide to diss the city conf. From WIAA the city conf. Can't compare to those in such great places as say, i dunno, Indiana. Whatever works for you.
Btw, that school from Indy that Vincent beat is in the city conf. Of Indy--not Farmboys like Cassville.
http://basketballrecruiting.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=1435977
This...
Add this years experience for J. Wilson, Blue, Gardner, Taylor, D. Wilson, Mayo, Taylor and Anderson.
Add the incoming class of above.
Equals a potential very talented team. Better players, better experience.
Duane Wilson, Johnson and McKay will have immediate impact.
If Looney or Stone decide to MU in year after that, then watch out.
Um, haiku?
We need less trolls. It is an epidemic.
People need to remember to spray Lysol on the toilet seat before squatting. This smack is contagious.
Gavin Schilling 6-9, 235, Chicago, even if he is taken. We have a very good recruiting class in 2013. Wisconsin has a few--- Kevon Looney (Must) Diamond Stone (Must), Henry Ellenson (Must)
Matt Thomas, and steal Bronson Koenig, Luke Fischer, Nick Fuller, plus Luke Worthington or Toby Hegner
Fundamentally sound players who can shoot and play "D". D.J. Newbill would have been a good addition.
Tokoto, Dekker and W. Ellenson, would have great additions. All are good, hard nosed players.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 10, 2013, 06:24:29 PM
Looking at this year's team, we have more problems on defense than we do on offense.
I respectfully disagree.
What did Mayo average last year as a fr? The only team in the country that does not need better players is Kentucky. We lost 2 18 pt scores in 1 season. When is the last time a team did that and make the tournament the next year.
Today's new posters are producing some message board gold! Love it!
Quote from: TeamOh on January 10, 2013, 06:21:22 PM
This wasn't meant to be about the high school recruits we have coming in. But OK. Keep bringing that up.
The point was that we don't score the ball well at all, and we won't next year because freshman are not going to come in and be the stars of the team. It just doesn't happen that way. Hopefully next year's recruiting class is the first of many that has multiple players who can efficiently put the ball in the bucket consistently.
The current team is shooting 46.7% from the floor. The highest shooting percentage at MU since '02-'03. That shooting percentage ranks 41st in the country (top 12%). MU's top 4 scorers (60% of FG attempts) are shooting a combined 49% from the floor. Gardner is 4th in the BE in FG%. As a whole, the team is averaging 1.30 points per shot, good enough for 63rd in the country (top 20%). Those top 4 players are averaging 1.36 points per shot.
That seems pretty efficient to me.
OP lost all credibility when he said McKay did nothing in high school....
He was All State and City conference player of the year as a senior.
Oh....players are evaluated year round now...not just in high school. They play against the best talent in the country in AAU ball and at the camps.
Wilson had a memorable game game against the #1 point guard in 2014 Tyus Jones this past summer. To suggest that he hasn't played against talented players is beyond stupid.
How they will do as frosh is obviously something we will find out but it won't surprise me at all if one or more of them make significant contributions next year.
When are Milwaukee people going to learn that it is not the high school hoops hotbed they think it is? Who was the last Milwaukee kid drafted? Devin Harris?
Marquette needs to double down on all the talent down I-94.
Quote from: TeamOh on January 10, 2013, 05:31:38 PM
Wilson can get his own shot at will...in Division 4 WIAA basketball. Not exactly the Big East, in my - extremely humble - opinion.
JJJ is doing it at a high *high school* level, but again, nowhere near the Big East, or even the Big Sky, for that matter.
Against D4 basketball? Seriously?!?! They play a bunch of Milwaukee league schools as well as Little Chute, Vincent, and Germantown......
This is the dumbest fucking thread I've ever wasted time reading. Holy crap.
It always blows my mind when first time posters know exactly how the board functions work.
Agree; we have a team full of high level talent; we're finding our way and am thoroughly satisfied with our level of talent on a year by year basis. My only concern is our current lack of a committed potential impact true center; need one every two years in my opinion.... This post blows
Quote from: MuMark on January 10, 2013, 09:47:20 PM
OP lost all credibility when he said McKay did nothing in high school....
He was All State and City conference player of the year as a senior.
Oh....players are evaluated year round now...not just in high school. They play against the best talent in the country in AAU ball and at the camps.
Wilson had a memorable game game against the #1 point guard in 2014 Tyus Jones this past summer. To suggest that he hasn't played against talented players is beyond stupid.
How they will do as frosh is obviously something we will find out but it won't surprise me at all if one or more of them make significant contributions next year.
It isn't beyond stupid. I never said Wilson isn't a top 60 player in the country. I know he didn't get ranked highly based on the results he is showing in his Dominican season. But how many freshman in the country make major contributions? Not too many. There's a reason for that. I would not EXPECT major contributions from a player ranked the 60th best player in the country. Could it happen? It could, but it's unlikely. If it does, GREAT! If it doesn't, 90% of this board will freak out and the other 10% who have a clue will realize there is PLENTY of time for growth and that he will still be a stud. The fact of the matter is that Wilson goes up against those great point guards a few times a year at most. Big East players go up against those players EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE YEAR! The gap in competition from a night to night basis between a high school senior and a Big East player is INSANELY HUGE! This is why freshman oftentimes have a very difficult time adjusting immediately to college basketball. It happens to all but the very very top freshman in the country. It will happen to Wilson, and Burton, and Johnson, and Dawson. What used to be enough space to shoot a jumper for them will all of a sudden become a smaller window because of the increased size and athleticism of opponents. What used to be getting a half step on a defender will become giving up a half step to the defender. What used to be just out jumping a player for a rebound will become having to get into the guy to get the rebound. College ball is a whole different animal, regardless of whether you play Tyus Jones once a year or not.
And for those of you who think the City League is a good league and the WIAA is strong, it is not at all. Vincent is not a good high school basketball team (which doesn't mean Deonte Burton is not a good player...just that they aren't a good team), so pointing out that Dominican has played them really means nothing. Just look at what Germantown is doing. They have won over 40 games straight now with an average margine of victory over 40 points. GERMANTOWN! They have Fischer, and then..........? The Showalter kid? Who isn't very good in terms of college prospects. I mean seriously, they have 1 kid on their team who is going to play Division 1 basketball and they haven't lost a game in a year and a half, winning every game by nearly half of a hundred points. It's embarrassing.
TeamOh = Teamdee
Not quite.
So, roommates? Friends? ::)
Not sure if TeamOhh is a troll but his English is more developed than teamdee's. So unless he was playing dumb, I doubt it is the same person.
The only thing I agree with is that Burton will take a while to get assimilated here. I watched him play tonight and his coach has him starting at point guard. He had a lot of trouble with his passing against a weak Milwaukee North team. However, his shot form is perfectly fine, even if it doesn't go in all that often.
Quote from: hilltopper03 on January 10, 2013, 06:08:25 PM
You forgot John Dawson. People says he's very underrated.
Or, as I like to refer to him, The Farm Boy of Clovis!
Quote from: TeamOh on January 10, 2013, 10:37:22 PM
It isn't beyond stupid. I never said Wilson isn't a top 60 player in the country. I know he didn't get ranked highly based on the results he is showing in his Dominican season. But how many freshman in the country make major contributions? Not too many. There's a reason for that. I would not EXPECT major contributions from a player ranked the 60th best player in the country. Could it happen? It could, but it's unlikely. If it does, GREAT! If it doesn't, 90% of this board will freak out and the other 10% who have a clue will realize there is PLENTY of time for growth and that he will still be a stud. The fact of the matter is that Wilson goes up against those great point guards a few times a year at most. Big East players go up against those players EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE YEAR! The gap in competition from a night to night basis between a high school senior and a Big East player is INSANELY HUGE! This is why freshman oftentimes have a very difficult time adjusting immediately to college basketball. It happens to all but the very very top freshman in the country. It will happen to Wilson, and Burton, and Johnson, and Dawson. What used to be enough space to shoot a jumper for them will all of a sudden become a smaller window because of the increased size and athleticism of opponents. What used to be getting a half step on a defender will become giving up a half step to the defender. What used to be just out jumping a player for a rebound will become having to get into the guy to get the rebound. College ball is a whole different animal, regardless of whether you play Tyus Jones once a year or not.
And for those of you who think the City League is a good league and the WIAA is strong, it is not at all. Vincent is not a good high school basketball team (which doesn't mean Deonte Burton is not a good player...just that they aren't a good team), so pointing out that Dominican has played them really means nothing. Just look at what Germantown is doing. They have won over 40 games straight now with an average margine of victory over 40 points. GERMANTOWN! They have Fischer, and then..........? The Showalter kid? Who isn't very good in terms of college prospects. I mean seriously, they have 1 kid on their team who is going to play Division 1 basketball and they haven't lost a game in a year and a half, winning every game by nearly half of a hundred points. It's embarrassing.
Big East Season = 18 games. Typical college season equals approx 31 games. Every Day of the year = 365, occasionally 366 days. It will be very hard for the freshman to improve since practices will be minimal with a game every day.
Avoiding hyperbole, is a good way to avoid getting jumped on, on initial posts.
Buzz:
"Better players? Better players? Why didn't I think of that! D'oh!!!"
Quote from: TeamOh on January 10, 2013, 10:37:22 PM
It isn't beyond stupid. I never said Wilson isn't a top 60 player in the country. I know he didn't get ranked highly based on the results he is showing in his Dominican season. But how many freshman in the country make major contributions? Not too many. There's a reason for that. I would not EXPECT major contributions from a player ranked the 60th best player in the country. Could it happen? It could, but it's unlikely. If it does, GREAT! If it doesn't, 90% of this board will freak out and the other 10% who have a clue will realize there is PLENTY of time for growth and that he will still be a stud. The fact of the matter is that Wilson goes up against those great point guards a few times a year at most. Big East players go up against those players EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE YEAR! The gap in competition from a night to night basis between a high school senior and a Big East player is INSANELY HUGE! This is why freshman oftentimes have a very difficult time adjusting immediately to college basketball. It happens to all but the very very top freshman in the country. It will happen to Wilson, and Burton, and Johnson, and Dawson. What used to be enough space to shoot a jumper for them will all of a sudden become a smaller window because of the increased size and athleticism of opponents. What used to be getting a half step on a defender will become giving up a half step to the defender. What used to be just out jumping a player for a rebound will become having to get into the guy to get the rebound. College ball is a whole different animal, regardless of whether you play Tyus Jones once a year or not.
And for those of you who think the City League is a good league and the WIAA is strong, it is not at all. Vincent is not a good high school basketball team (which doesn't mean Deonte Burton is not a good player...just that they aren't a good team), so pointing out that Dominican has played them really means nothing. Just look at what Germantown is doing. They have won over 40 games straight now with an average margine of victory over 40 points. GERMANTOWN! They have Fischer, and then..........? The Showalter kid? Who isn't very good in terms of college prospects. I mean seriously, they have 1 kid on their team who is going to play Division 1 basketball and they haven't lost a game in a year and a half, winning every game by nearly half of a hundred points. It's embarrassing.
Just when I thought you couldn't possibly be any dumber, you go and do something like this... and totally redeem yourself!
Quote from: TeamOh on January 10, 2013, 10:37:22 PM
It isn't beyond stupid. I never said Wilson isn't a top 60 player in the country. I know he didn't get ranked highly based on the results he is showing in his Dominican season. But how many freshman in the country make major contributions? Not too many. There's a reason for that. I would not EXPECT major contributions from a player ranked the 60th best player in the country. Could it happen? It could, but it's unlikely. If it does, GREAT! If it doesn't, 90% of this board will freak out and the other 10% who have a clue will realize there is PLENTY of time for growth and that he will still be a stud. The fact of the matter is that Wilson goes up against those great point guards a few times a year at most. Big East players go up against those players EVERY SINGLE DAY OF THE YEAR! The gap in competition from a night to night basis between a high school senior and a Big East player is INSANELY HUGE! This is why freshman oftentimes have a very difficult time adjusting immediately to college basketball. It happens to all but the very very top freshman in the country. It will happen to Wilson, and Burton, and Johnson, and Dawson. What used to be enough space to shoot a jumper for them will all of a sudden become a smaller window because of the increased size and athleticism of opponents. What used to be getting a half step on a defender will become giving up a half step to the defender. What used to be just out jumping a player for a rebound will become having to get into the guy to get the rebound. College ball is a whole different animal, regardless of whether you play Tyus Jones once a year or not.
And for those of you who think the City League is a good league and the WIAA is strong, it is not at all. Vincent is not a good high school basketball team (which doesn't mean Deonte Burton is not a good player...just that they aren't a good team), so pointing out that Dominican has played them really means nothing. Just look at what Germantown is doing. They have won over 40 games straight now with an average margine of victory over 40 points. GERMANTOWN! They have Fischer, and then..........? The Showalter kid? Who isn't very good in terms of college prospects. I mean seriously, they have 1 kid on their team who is going to play Division 1 basketball and they haven't lost a game in a year and a half, winning every game by nearly half of a hundred points. It's embarrassing.
Strong, strong post.
I want better players to, so does every team in the country, except maybe the Top 10 every year. But for MU to recruit a class like this is crazy, can you feel the cold
everyday you walk out of the house, you recruit a kid from Memphis and New Mexico, a JC kid who could go anywhere, and 2 top players from your town, be happy what you
have and to Buzz, congrats. I talked to Mike Deane one day and he recruited John Polonowski, Jarrad Lovette and Mike Bargan. Do you want to go to back to that? He thought
that was the best he could do, compare.
Quote from: LittleMurs on January 10, 2013, 11:22:39 PM
Big East Season = 18 games. Typical college season equals approx 31 games. Every Day of the year = 365, occasionally 366 days. It will be very hard for the freshman to improve since practices will be minimal with a game every day.
Avoiding hyperbole, is a good way to avoid getting jumped on, on initial posts.
So when our MU players are practicing against themselves every day they aren't playing against Big East players? Huh... Here I thought MU was a Big East team... But I'm the dumb one on this board...
I think TeamOh is still upset that Buzz didn't get Jabari Parker.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on January 10, 2013, 09:54:15 PM
When are Milwaukee people going to learn that it is not the high school hoops hotbed they think it is? Who was the last Milwaukee kid drafted? Devin Harris?
Marquette needs to double down on all the talent down I-94.
[/quote
When? I don't think that they do, so not sure if you are looking for a time frame.
Diante Garrett.
Quote from: Avenue Commons on January 10, 2013, 09:54:15 PM
When? I don't think that they do, so not sure if you are looking for a time frame.
Diante Garrett.
Garrett wasn't drafted.
I think the name of this thread should be changed to "We Need Better Posters".
I'm just sayin'. I know I am a noob relative to some of y'all, but seriously, some of the recent walk-ons have made some pretty worthless comments.
Quote from: warriorchick on January 11, 2013, 08:45:04 AM
I think the name of this thread should be changed to "We Need Better Posters".
+1
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 11, 2013, 08:20:00 AM
Garrett wasn't drafted.
You are correct--first name that I could think of recently playing in the league.
I don't think Wes was drafted either--so not the only way to the league.
Quote from: honkytonk on January 10, 2013, 06:11:17 PM
Who in the BE over the years would you say were great as freshmen?
Fred Brown, Ewing, Dana Barros, Pearl Washington, Rony S, Derrick Coleman, Iverson, Lawrence Moten, Scoonie Penn, Tim Thomas, Khalid El Amin, Troy Murphy, Troy Bell, Eddie Griffin, Melo, Chris Thomas, Chris Taft, Rudy Gay, Jeff Green, Scottie Reynolds, Dom James, Jonny Flynn, DeJuan Blair, Lance Stephenson among others
Quote from: PTM on January 10, 2013, 10:32:04 PM
It always blows my mind when first time posters know exactly how the board functions work.
There is a correlation between accuracy and tenure on this board? Good Lord but you are delusional
Quote from: LittleMurs on January 10, 2013, 11:05:24 PM
Or, as I like to refer to him, The Farm Boy Ranch Hand or Roper of Clovis!
I know you Midwest boys don't know what ranches are but the cows ain't for milkin
Quote from: keefe on January 11, 2013, 09:09:05 AM
There is a correlation between accuracy and tenure on this board?
Probably not, but there have been a rash of newbie posters lately with rather bizarre opinions.
While on the topic of next year's class and the classes after that, I want to talk a bit about Diamond Stone. I'm sure you guys are familiar with him (Sophomore at Dominican, currently ranked 1st in the class of 2015 according to ESPN, Marquette hopeful). I just wonder if his exposure isn't due to Duane also being on the same team. Diamond is a huge body at 6'10, but I don't think that he can stay as that number 1 player, or even a top 10 player of his class (I realize he has two years left and that the rankings always change). I think that his success may be due to Duane, as he is the bigger threat on that team. Will Stone fall down the rankings? Or do you guys think that he will develop into a much better play with the additional pressures of being the possible go-to guy?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 11, 2013, 09:17:33 AM
Probably not, but there have been a rash of newbie posters lately with rather bizarre opinions.
Bizarre opinions?? On MUScoop?? The hell you say.
Quote from: setyoursightsnorth on January 11, 2013, 09:28:03 AM
While on the topic of next year's class and the classes after that, I want to talk a bit about Diamond Stone. I'm sure you guys are familiar with him (Sophomore at Dominican, currently ranked 1st in the class of 2015 according to ESPN, Marquette hopeful). I just wonder if his exposure isn't due to Duane also being on the same team. Diamond is a huge body at 6'10, but I don't think that he can stay as that number 1 player, or even a top 10 player of his class (I realize he has two years left and that the rankings always change). I think that his success may be due to Duane, as he is the bigger threat on that team. Will Stone fall down the rankings? Or do you guys think that he will develop into a much better play with the additional pressures of being the possible go-to guy?
See that box in the upper right hand of your screen? Type the words "Diamond Stone" into it, click the word "search" and see what happens.
Quote from: warriorchick on January 11, 2013, 09:47:43 AM
See that box in the upper right hand of your screen? Type the words "Diamond Stone" into it, click the word "search" and see what happens.
(http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/176062_o.gif)
Quote from: reinko on January 11, 2013, 10:11:36 AM
(http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/176062_o.gif)
that is exactly what happened.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 11, 2013, 09:17:33 AM
Probably not, but there have been a rash of newbie posters lately with rather bizarre opinions.
Seriously. How many screen names can Freeway create?
Quote from: MUfan12 on January 11, 2013, 10:18:37 AM
Seriously. How many screen names can Freeway create?
Or warthog.
Quote from: TeamOh on January 10, 2013, 10:37:22 PM
The fact of the matter is that Wilson goes up against those great point guards a few times a year at most.
GERMANTOWN! They have Fischer, and then..........? The Showalter kid?
I appreciate your vigor, but you just don't know what you're talking about in a couple spots (others would say I'm being too polite).
Wilson plays a gruesome schedule ALL YEAR LONG traveling ALL OVER THE COUNTRY playing against THE TOP AAU TALENT IN THE COUNTRY. High school basketball is what 20 games? He plays that much in June. Sure, he needs to hit the weight room, but this guy is going to make everyone forget Cadougan real quick. And some other point you brought up about him not being able to get his shot off is flat out ridiculous -- he has a pretty quick release.
On to your Germantown lament. They are not Simeon, but they are a great team. Over the past two years they have been the definition of a complete team. They have shooters, they have size, they have ball handlers. They might not have the athleticism of some, but collectively they don't have too many flaws and go hard. When you say, who else? They lucked into those Bearden brothers transferring this year, but they are solid players. Little Showalter can shoot. His brother is on a Big 10 court nightly. And the point guard from last year, Mongon, had one hell of a motor and is playing somewhere on scholarship. While WI isn't the hotbed of talent, most high schools have a Looney or a Stone and no one else, and they have a system that focuses on that one person. Germantown has a proven system and players who buy into that system. Surround a couple D1 kids with a bunch of solid D2 and D3 kids and this is what you get. They are a fun team to watch.
I will give you one on Burton. The Vander comparison is legit. I don't know where he fits in, but I'm sure Buzz will find a place for him. I see him as the bruising slasher who can get to the rim like Wade in college. Hopefully his shot will develop, but the make-up of his fellow recruits doesn't require him to be a lights out outside shooter. When stopped with a double team, he will have guys to kick it out to who will make the defense pay. That will open up both areas and there is no doubt that Burton can finish strong every time.
Finally, you say we need better players? You need a reality check. With the bust of the country's best basketball conference at our feet, this is one of the best collections of players (on paper) we have EVER had coming in. Moving ahead, it won't get easier. Just imagine if Buzz actually left this off-season or our new conference collapsed. Enjoy the ride.
I'm confused...
"We need better players!"
Posters point out that Buzz has recruited a top 10 class for next season.
"No, freshman aren't better because they don't produce as freshman. We need better players!"
WTF?! Where do you expect these players to come from? Kentucky, Duke, Kansas transfers? Teams improve by recruiting talent and then further developing that talent. Buzz has been increasingly doing that since Day 1.
I really have no idea what you're talking about, and I'm not sure you do either.
This HAS to be a troll. HAS to be.
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 11, 2013, 12:00:44 PM
I'm confused...
"We need better players!"
Posters point out that Buzz has recruited a top 10 class for next season.
"No, freshman aren't better because they don't produce as freshman. We need better players!"
WTF?! Where do you expect these players to come from? Kentucky, Duke, Kansas transfers? Teams improve by recruiting talent and then further developing that talent. Buzz has been increasingly doing that since Day 1.
I really have no idea what you're talking about, and I'm not sure you do either.
This HAS to be a troll. HAS to be.
He wants LW to acquire some new players via free agency and possibly trades, even if it means giving up some high round draft picks.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 11, 2013, 12:14:27 PM
He wants LW to acquire some new players via free agency and possibly trades, even if it means giving up some high round draft picks.
Isn't that how we got Lockett?
Quote from: keefe on January 11, 2013, 09:09:05 AM
There is a correlation between accuracy and tenure on this board? Good Lord but you are delusional
I would say, yes there is a correlation. Only a correlation so it isnt exact. Certainly not delusional.
Quote from: leever on January 11, 2013, 01:26:52 PM
Isn't that how we got Lockett?
Yep, they got him for cash considerations. I believe MU also traded a prospect named DJ something for Jamil Wilson.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 11, 2013, 01:51:20 PM
Yep, they got him for cash considerations. I believe MU also traded a prospect named DJ something for Jamil Wilson.
Whatever happened to DJ Newbill?
Quote from: keefe on January 11, 2013, 02:25:54 PM
Whatever happened to DJ Newbill?
Straight to the NBA
Quote from: TeamOh on January 11, 2013, 06:21:28 AM
So when our MU players are practicing against themselves every day they aren't playing against Big East players? Huh... Here I thought MU was a Big East team... But I'm the dumb one on this board...
You must be because you walked right into it.
Who will MU players be practicing against next year? Why I think that it will be those freshmen players you described thusly;
"The gap in competition from a night to night basis between a high school senior and a Big East player is INSANELY HUGE! This is why freshman oftentimes have a very difficult time adjusting immediately to college basketball. It happens to all but the very very top freshman in the country. It will happen to Wilson, and Burton, and Johnson, and Dawson. What used to be enough space to shoot a jumper for them will all of a sudden become a smaller window because of the increased size and athleticism of opponents. What used to be getting a half step on a defender will become giving up a half step to the defender. What used to be just out jumping a player for a rebound will become having to get into the guy to get the rebound. College ball is a whole different animal, regardless of whether you play Tyus Jones once a year or not."
Quote from: LittleMurs on January 11, 2013, 03:28:36 PM
You must be because you walked right into it.
Who will MU players be practicing against next year? Why I think that it will be those freshmen players you described thusly;
"The gap in competition from a night to night basis between a high school senior and a Big East player is INSANELY HUGE! This is why freshman oftentimes have a very difficult time adjusting immediately to college basketball. It happens to all but the very very top freshman in the country. It will happen to Wilson, and Burton, and Johnson, and Dawson. What used to be enough space to shoot a jumper for them will all of a sudden become a smaller window because of the increased size and athleticism of opponents. What used to be getting a half step on a defender will become giving up a half step to the defender. What used to be just out jumping a player for a rebound will become having to get into the guy to get the rebound. College ball is a whole different animal, regardless of whether you play Tyus Jones once a year or not."
What are you talking about? My point remains 100% relavant. What you just quoted me saying was to the response that Duane Wilson has proven himself against top level 2014 recruits. That happened in 1 game against Tyus Jones. Once in 365 days. I get it, he has played other top level point guard recruits. But again, that isn't every single day of the year like current Marquette players (Derrick Wilson, Vander Blue, etc.) are doing. Current Marquette players are improving much, much, much more playing against Big East players every single day (Marquette players in practice, other Big East players in games) than current high school seniors at Dominican High School, Vincent High School, a high school in Memphis, a high school in New Mexico, and even a JUCO. It's NOT a difficult concept to understand. It really isn't. You get better by playing better competition. Right now Wilson, Burton, Johnson, Dawson aren't at Marquette, while the Marquette players are. The competition at Marquette is better than the competition in high school. There will be a learning curve for the freshman next year while they adjust to the increase in competition, as they have not faced that competition day in and day out like they will starting next year. I didn't really think I had to walk people through this idea step by step, but I was wrong.
To all of those who are pointing out that our class is a top 10 class for next year...HOW MANY TIMES DO I NEED TO SAY THAT I THINK NEXT YEAR'S CLASS IS A GREAT START! GET IT THROUGH YOUR HEADS! IT IS NOT HARD TO UNDERSTAND! So I will say it one more time for those of you who have a hard time with reading comprehension (I thought my Marquette degree meant something, but some of these peoples' understanding - or lack thereof - of some pretty simple thoughts makes me wonder...) I THINK NEXT YEAR'S CLASS IS A GREAT START TO GETTING BETTER PLAYERS! But I do not think those freshman are going to make an immediate impact, as not very many freshman players do. It's not hard to understand this. I don't think the class is crappy. I think the 2013 needs to be the standard from now on. Because the players on this year's team are not good enough to compete for a Final Four. 2013 will be if the 2014, 2015, and 2016 classes are good enough.
Yep I think you nailed it.
We need better players...as long as they aren't freshmen because freshmen take time to develope.....
Oh and they can't be from Milwaukee or Wisconsin because the basketball stinks in this state and this city.....
I wonder how other schools deal with this vexing problem?
Quote from: jesmu84 on January 11, 2013, 12:00:44 PM
I'm confused...
"We need better players!"
Posters point out that Buzz has recruited a top 10 class for next season.
"No, freshman aren't better because they don't produce as freshman. We need better players!"
WTF?! Where do you expect these players to come from? Kentucky, Duke, Kansas transfers? Teams improve by recruiting talent and then further developing that talent. Buzz has been increasingly doing that since Day 1.
I really have no idea what you're talking about, and I'm not sure you do either.
This HAS to be a troll. HAS to be.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on January 11, 2013, 12:14:27 PM
He wants LW to acquire some new players via free agency and possibly trades, even if it means giving up some high round draft picks.
LW better not get us in salary cap trouble or Buzz is GONE!!!
(http://28.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lhgjim2jYx1qbiuveo1_400.gif)
Quote from: Freeport Warrior on January 11, 2013, 10:41:56 AM
I appreciate your vigor, but you just don't know what you're talking about in a couple spots (others would say I'm being too polite).
Wilson plays a gruesome schedule ALL YEAR LONG traveling ALL OVER THE COUNTRY playing against THE TOP AAU TALENT IN THE COUNTRY. High school basketball is what 20 games? He plays that much in June. Sure, he needs to hit the weight room, but this guy is going to make everyone forget Cadougan real quick. And some other point you brought up about him not being able to get his shot off is flat out ridiculous -- he has a pretty quick release.
On to your Germantown lament. They are not Simeon, but they are a great team. Over the past two years they have been the definition of a complete team. They have shooters, they have size, they have ball handlers. They might not have the athleticism of some, but collectively they don't have too many flaws and go hard. When you say, who else? They lucked into those Bearden brothers transferring this year, but they are solid players. Little Showalter can shoot. His brother is on a Big 10 court nightly. And the point guard from last year, Mongon, had one hell of a motor and is playing somewhere on scholarship. While WI isn't the hotbed of talent, most high schools have a Looney or a Stone and no one else, and they have a system that focuses on that one person. Germantown has a proven system and players who buy into that system. Surround a couple D1 kids with a bunch of solid D2 and D3 kids and this is what you get. They are a fun team to watch.
I will give you one on Burton. The Vander comparison is legit. I don't know where he fits in, but I'm sure Buzz will find a place for him. I see him as the bruising slasher who can get to the rim like Wade in college. Hopefully his shot will develop, but the make-up of his fellow recruits doesn't require him to be a lights out outside shooter. When stopped with a double team, he will have guys to kick it out to who will make the defense pay. That will open up both areas and there is no doubt that Burton can finish strong every time.
Finally, you say we need better players? You need a reality check. With the bust of the country's best basketball conference at our feet, this is one of the best collections of players (on paper) we have EVER had coming in. Moving ahead, it won't get easier. Just imagine if Buzz actually left this off-season or our new conference collapsed. Enjoy the ride.
Wilson will not make us forget about Cadougan "real quick." Wilson will get 7th man minutes as a freshman. He is not going to come in and average over 10, 5, and 3 (Cadougan's numbers so far this season). While Cadougan is too inconsistent, he is not a bad player at all. I like Cadougan's game for a point guard. He runs an offense. That should be the first job of a point guard. A point guard's first job is not to score the basketball.
I agree that Wilson has a quick release, but this is an honest question...have you ever sat on the floor for a Division 1 men's college basketball game? Shots that are considered "wide open" in the college game are highly contested shots in the high school game. The margin for error is much, much smaller in college than it is in high school. If you get an open look you better take it quickly or that open look will quickly be closed out on in college ball.
As far as Germantown goes, yes they are a good high school basketball team. I will agree with you on that. But they are NOT so good that they should be on a 40+ game winning streak and averaging a margin of victory over FOURTY POINTS! Even if they were as good of a program as Simeon (AKA occasionally competing for the mythical "high school national champion"), they should not be winning games by that much. Simeon's team last year, which finished the season ranked 11th in the country and had division 1 recruits coming off of their bench, won a total of 3 games by 40 or more points, with 2 more close to that. They had many games that they won by single digits, and multiple games where they won by a single possession. Germantown is winning games by FOURTY POINTS PER GAME! I don't care how good they are (again good, but with the way they beat teams you would think they would be legendary), they should not be winning games by 40 every single night.
Let's see how Brookfield Central does tomorrow against Chester High School from Pennsylvania, the number 9 team in the country. Brookfield Central lost to Germantown on a buzzer-beating put-back layup over Fischer's head. They really should've lost the game, as Brookfield Central had the ball out of bounds with 40 seconds left with the game tied and got a REAL quick 5 second call against them. If Brookfield Central can hang with Chester then maybe Germantown is really that legit not only in Wisconsin, but anywhere. If Brookfield Central gets blown out then I think the question is really answered.
Quote from: TeamOh on January 11, 2013, 04:31:08 PM
If Brookfield Central gets blown out then I think the question is really answered.
If Brookfield Central gets blown out then they need better players.
Quote from: Wareagle on January 11, 2013, 04:39:29 PM
If Brookfield Central gets blown out then they need better players.
You're right about that. They're one of the top teams in the WIAA. Won't look too great if they lose by 60.
Quote from: TeamOh on January 11, 2013, 04:31:08 PM
Shots that are considered "wide open" in the college game are highly contested shots in the high school game.
Really??
You should sit courtside for Adams-Friendship games (instead of D1 games and numerous final fours)....alot of open looks in their games.
Quote from: We R Final Four on January 11, 2013, 04:55:26 PM
You should sit courtside for Adams-Friendship games (instead of D1 games and numerous final fours)....alot of open looks in their games.
I'll consider it. Thanks for the recommendation.
Wasn't meant to be a boast. I don't sit there every game. But I have sat there before. And you see the game in an entirely different light when you are that close to the action. Even 20 rows up the game seems much different than when you are right on the court. You see much more, realize how much more physical, how non-fluid the game is, how incredibly skilled these guys are, etc. You see how tiny a shooter's window is to get the shot off cleanly.
Thank for the perspective--most of us have only been around basketball for 5 minutes so thank you for the enlightenment. I had no idea of the different perspectives that you shared. Thanks again.
Someone make sure "Get Better Players" is on Buzz's checklist when he's figuring out his strategy for recruiting.
I think the problem with this topic could have been solved if the title simply wasn't "We Need Better Players." TeamOh you bring up some good points but just a word of advice - a little less attitude and a little more discussion will help give you a warmer welcome.
With that said, let's hope next years class is indeed top 10, and we get better players for 2014. ;D
We need to find out where Mark Few finds those 7 footers
Bad news guys. I looked into it and it is impossible to go back in time and recruit high school players who have proven themselves in the Big East.
Quote from: sarcastro on January 11, 2013, 09:46:03 PM
Bad news guys. I looked into it and it is impossible to go back in time and recruit high school players who have proven themselves in the Big East.
Reading comprehension really is a big problem here isn't it? Welp, this was fun!
Quote from: elephantraker on January 11, 2013, 08:23:44 PM
We need to find out where Mark Few finds those 7 footers
We recruited Karnowski.
Everyone attacked this guy, but did anyone care to think he may have watched all these players in the MPL?
Probably a terrible post title for his content, but despite the class ranking, there is no guarantee of on court translation at Marquette.
Quote from: TeamOh on January 11, 2013, 09:59:31 PM
Reading comprehension really is a big problem here isn't it? Welp, this was fun!
If everyone's missing the point, might want to reevaluate the delivery/message entirely.
Perhaps this post should read "We need taller players". I think we have good talent. Although we are taller than a few years ago, we are still shorter than most teams. It seems that Buzz is not comfortable coaching a taller team.
We need to go back in time and save Jonbenet Ramsey...butterfly effect...BOOM! Better players at Marquette.
Quote from: Stretchdeltsig on January 12, 2013, 10:11:19 AM
Perhaps this post should read "We need taller players". I think we have good talent. Although we are taller than a few years ago, we are still shorter than most teams. It seems that Buzz is not comfortable coaching a taller team.
This is one of the tallest teams we've had in a while. Sure, we need a bigger 5, but overall, there is a lot of length in each position, and next year it'll be pretty big as well.
Delete this thread.
Maybe just smarter at times, but we are turning out to be pretty good.
Quote from: GoldenZebra on January 12, 2013, 02:36:46 PM
Delete this thread.
Because we have beat teams who are a combined 2-6 in the Big East? Believe me, I'm extremely happy to be 3-0 in conference play, but really?
Quote from: TeamOh on January 12, 2013, 02:42:43 PM
Because we have beat teams who are a combined 2-6 in the Big East? Believe me, I'm extremely happy to be 3-0 in conference play, but really?
How bout delete it because you are stating just about the most obvious fact about basketball when you boil it all down- at the end of the day a team is only as good as the players that are recruited. No one is denying that, but we are more realistic in our understanding of the caliber of player we can get here.
I
Quote from: TeamOh on January 12, 2013, 02:42:43 PM
Because we have beat teams who are a combined 2-6 in the Big East? Believe me, I'm extremely happy to be 3-0 in conference play, but really?
Half of those losses are because we beat them. Let's not forget Georgetown beat UCLA and Texas and took Indiana to OT, UConn beat Michigan State, and Michigan needed a late comeback to beat Pittsburgh. We beat 3 very good teams and this thread is foolish.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 12, 2013, 02:53:27 PM
Half of those losses are because we beat them. Let's not forget Georgetown beat UCLA and Texas and took Indiana to OT, UConn beat Michigan State, and Michigan needed a late comeback to beat Pittsburgh. We beat 3 very good teams and this thread is foolish.
Man Brew, you kick so many facts at random, I would swear you're in your underwear, in the basement with a year supply of jerky, running 5 flat screens all tuned to Milwaukee news. GOT SOAP? LOL. YOU ARE THE MAN.
LMAO
Reggie Rankin @ReggieRankin
#BJI2013 Brookfield Central (WI) over Chester (PA) 64-56 Riley LaChance was MOP made shots off the catch and rythum bounce. Nice performance
Quote from: TeamOh on January 11, 2013, 04:31:08 PM
Wilson will not make us forget about Cadougan "real quick." Wilson will get 7th man minutes as a freshman. He is not going to come in and average over 10, 5, and 3 (Cadougan's numbers so far this season). While Cadougan is too inconsistent, he is not a bad player at all. I like Cadougan's game for a point guard. He runs an offense. That should be the first job of a point guard. A point guard's first job is not to score the basketball.
I agree that Wilson has a quick release, but this is an honest question...have you ever sat on the floor for a Division 1 men's college basketball game? Shots that are considered "wide open" in the college game are highly contested shots in the high school game. The margin for error is much, much smaller in college than it is in high school. If you get an open look you better take it quickly or that open look will quickly be closed out on in college ball.
As far as Germantown goes, yes they are a good high school basketball team. I will agree with you on that. But they are NOT so good that they should be on a 40+ game winning streak and averaging a margin of victory over FOURTY POINTS! Even if they were as good of a program as Simeon (AKA occasionally competing for the mythical "high school national champion"), they should not be winning games by that much. Simeon's team last year, which finished the season ranked 11th in the country and had division 1 recruits coming off of their bench, won a total of 3 games by 40 or more points, with 2 more close to that. They had many games that they won by single digits, and multiple games where they won by a single possession. Germantown is winning games by FOURTY POINTS PER GAME! I don't care how good they are (again good, but with the way they beat teams you would think they would be legendary), they should not be winning games by 40 every single night.
Let's see how Brookfield Central does tomorrow against Chester High School from Pennsylvania, the number 9 team in the country. Brookfield Central lost to Germantown on a buzzer-beating put-back layup over Fischer's head. They really should've lost the game, as Brookfield Central had the ball out of bounds with 40 seconds left with the game tied and got a REAL quick 5 second call against them. If Brookfield Central can hang with Chester then maybe Germantown is really that legit not only in Wisconsin, but anywhere. If Brookfield Central gets blown out then I think the question is really answered.
.
Quote from: MuMark on January 12, 2013, 06:43:13 PM
LMAO
Reggie Rankin @ReggieRankin
#BJI2013 Brookfield Central (WI) over Chester (PA) 64-56 Riley LaChance was MOP made shots off the catch and rythum bounce. Nice performance
LMAO. Might want to check the facts before you post a condescending comment. Rondae Jefferson, a 6'7" senior point guard committed to Arizona and a top 20 recruit in the 2013 class on Chester, did not play today. Still a nice win, but not quite the same team without a probable McDonald's All American. Nice effort!
Whatever-suck it teamdee! Lets see how Brook Cent does against a great team--too funny!! Suck it.
Quote from: TeamOh on January 12, 2013, 09:18:39 PM
LMAO. Might want to check the facts before you post a condescending comment. Rondae Jefferson, a 6'7" senior point guard committed to Arizona and a top 20 recruit in the 2013 class on Chester, did not play today. Still a nice win, but not quite the same team without a probable McDonald's All American. Nice effort!
The comment wasn't condescending....and you were wrong. Don't make excuses.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 12, 2013, 10:08:23 PM
The comment wasn't condescending....and you were wrong. Don't make excuses.
DON'T MAKE EXCUSES?! LOL! Yeah so let's take Looney off of Hamilton and watch them get torn apart in the city league. Losing Looney doesn't change anything for them though. Lol. Clueless.
Quote from: TeamOh on January 12, 2013, 10:20:52 PM
DON'T MAKE EXCUSES?! LOL! Yeah so let's take Looney off of Hamilton and watch them get torn apart in the city league. Losing Looney doesn't change anything for them though. Lol. Clueless.
Whatever dude.
You were wrong.
You can't admit it.
<yawn>
Go away now.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on January 12, 2013, 10:24:25 PM
Whatever dude.
You were wrong.
You can't admit it.
<yawn>
Go away now.
Not sure what you're saying he was wrong about anyways. If you read his post he says if BC hangs with Chester then maybe Germantown really is legit but if they get blown out then they aren't. He didn't say whether he thought they'd get blown out or not.
And by the way, taking a top 15 recruit off of a high school basketball team is a big, big deal. Even if he wasn't a top recruit, not having your starting point guard is a huge deal. Just think if BC didn't have LaChance (a very nice traditional) playing. They would be an entirely different team. He had 31 points against GTown and was the sole reason they had a shot to win the game. That's what good players can do for a team in high school. They can make an average team a good team. A McD's All American player? He can make a bad team an undefeated team in high school. Take that away mid season with no time to adjust? Back to an average or bad team.
But yeah, LeBron James's St. Mary's team still would've gotten Nike deals, nationally televised games, National Championships, etc. without LeBron James. Or not. To say BC's win over Chester without Rondae Jefferson (a complete stud...check out his YouTube videos, he had all the weapons) is as impressive as it would've been with him is simply wrong. It's silly to deny that.
But he is only a high school player so he can't be that good. ;)
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Quote from: Billybob on January 12, 2013, 03:06:55 PM
Man Brew, you kick so many facts at random, I would swear you're in your underwear Batman pajama pants, in the basement living room with a year supply of jerky coffee, running 5 flat screens 6 browser windows all tuned to Milwaukee college basketball news. GOT SOAP? LOL. YOU ARE THE MAN.
That would be more accurate. And I shower every day. And thank you, I am :D
Quote from: wadesworld on January 12, 2013, 11:45:29 PM
Not sure what you're saying he was wrong about anyways. If you read his post he says if BC hangs with Chester then maybe Germantown really is legit but if they get blown out then they aren't. He didn't say whether he thought they'd get blown out or not.
And by the way, taking a top 15 recruit off of a high school basketball team is a big, big deal. Even if he wasn't a top recruit, not having your starting point guard is a huge deal. Just think if BC didn't have LaChance (a very nice traditional) playing. They would be an entirely different team. He had 31 points against GTown and was the sole reason they had a shot to win the game. That's what good players can do for a team in high school. They can make an average team a good team. A McD's All American player? He can make a bad team an undefeated team in high school. Take that away mid season with no time to adjust? Back to an average or bad team.
But yeah, LeBron James's St. Mary's team still would've gotten Nike deals, nationally televised games, National Championships, etc. without LeBron James. Or not. To say BC's win over Chester without Rondae Jefferson (a complete stud...check out his YouTube videos, he had all the weapons) is as impressive as it would've been with him is simply wrong. It's silly to deny that.
But he is only a high school player so he can't be that good. ;)
I was at the game. Chester's best play came from point guard. On paper and eye test, this looked to be a blow out. When your TEAM is ranked highly nationally, it isn't because of one guy. Take Parker off of Simeon and they still destroy most. Chester definitely had good players and some huge bodies, they just couldn't buy an outside shot. Once BC packed in their zone rather than extending it, Chester would settle for long shots and they didn't fall. By the time they figured out that wouldn't work, BC was up 4 or 5 and in the bonus. As we know, traditionals love them some free throws and BC put it away. BC was on the verge of getting blown out in the first quarter.
Your example of taking LaChance off of BC or even Looney off Hamilton is not a good one. Even with those guys, these teams aren't even close to a nationally ranked squad. Good win for BC.
Team Oh doubted Germantown was legit and then threw in this Chester/BC litmus test. Missing player, outcome, whatever -- Germantown is a good team with great high school players of which, 4/5 will get their college paid for through scholarship. Their margin of victory is skewed because they have played some downright horrible teams.
And in answer to Team Oh asking if I've ever sat court side to see the speed of the game, I have. It is a different perspective, but basketball is basketball. Duane Wilson has a quick shot and he will have no problem getting it off in college -- this is where I lost some respect for your opinion -- dude is lightning quick, uses pump fakes and gets whatever shot he wants all summer long on the AAU circuit. Cadougan gets his shot off just fine, but a leaner, quicker Duane Wilson will struggle?
In an unrelated note, Diamond Stone was at the game and he is just a monster.
Quote from: brewcity77 on January 13, 2013, 06:45:18 AM
That would be more accurate. And I shower every day. And thank you, I am :D
Any water proof LED screens in the shower?
BTW, have the nuptials taken place, yet?
All that time tracking college basketball, and still time left over to romance a top-flight babe.
Your are indeed, the man.
I don't follow WI high school basketball much outside of Marquette recruits. Nor do I have much of a grasp of national rankings among high schools. However, it appears at least 1 person believes Germantown is a pretty good team.
http://espn.go.com/college-sports/basketball/recruiting/powerrankings/_/week/8/season/2012
TeamOh has a point, this team's offense is pretty bad, maybe recruiting better offensive players is the right idea. Can't always rely on defense to win games, sometimes a consistent scorer is necessary, which this team is lacking.
I personally Feel Buzz should only recruit 5 star player's. The fact we are bringing in (4) 4 Star player's next year is not acceptable. Of our 11 player's 6 were top 100's and Mayo, Ferg, were both top 150 and Gardner and Wilson were right on the cusp of top 150. The only guy that was not rated as a HM was Otule. Buzz is not a top 10 name coach at this point and MU is not a top 10 name program. The fact that we have done so well the last 10 years is becuase in general the coach's have out worked other Coach's.
Quote from: flash on January 16, 2013, 01:22:11 PM
TeamOh has a point, this team's offense is pretty bad, maybe recruiting better offensive players is the right idea. Can't always rely on defense to win games, sometimes a consistent scorer is necessary, which this team is lacking.
Again, I don't think anyone's arguing with the fact that more scorers on this team would help. It's just a) the fact that there's very little we can do about it now and b) the way TeamOh communicates his points that has most of the posters riled up.
Quote from: flash on January 16, 2013, 01:22:11 PM
TeamOh has a point, this team's offense is pretty bad, maybe recruiting better offensive players is the right idea. Can't always rely on defense to win games, sometimes a consistent scorer is necessary, which this team is lacking.
Hold on. Are you saying that under Buzz we have relied on defense to win games?
Quote from: kmwtrucks on January 16, 2013, 01:39:38 PM
I personally Feel Buzz should only recruit 5 star player's. The fact we are bringing in (4) 4 Star player's next year is not acceptable. Of our 11 player's 6 were top 100's and Mayo, Ferg, were both top 150 and Gardner and Wilson were right on the cusp of top 150. The only guy that was not rated as a HM was Otule. Buzz is not a top 10 name coach at this point and MU is not a top 10 name program. The fact that we have done so well the last 10 years is becuase in general the coach's have out worked other Coach's.
.
Did someone ban the use of teal or must we rely on on advanced intelligence to recognize sarcasm?
DOH! Brook Central didn't do any of you all any favors in losing to 5-9 overall, 1-6 in the Classic 8 Waukesha North last night.
But yeah, not having Rondae Jefferson had no impact on the outcome of their game with Chester :-*