Per MU athletics Twitter. 530 on a Friday... Nice timing.
no accident of course.
Said this was coming months ago.
Quote from: MUfan12 on April 20, 2012, 05:29:15 PM
Per MU athletics Twitter. 530 on a Friday... Nice timing.
For all of the complaints about our PR department, they actually did well here.
Quote from: Bocephys on April 20, 2012, 05:32:17 PM
For all of the complaints about our PR department, they actually did well here.
No kidding.
Guessing Lockett announces for MU by Monday.
Hope they are restricting him from going to SMU!
Quote from: Jay Bee on April 20, 2012, 05:37:04 PM
Hope they are restricting him from going to SMU!
And the entire Pac 12, because we played a school from there once.
Can't say I'm disappointed but I wish him the best. Guessing Lockett may be coming here which would be great.
Durley won't join Golden Eagles next season
Marquette has announced that center Aaron Durley of Fort Bend Bush High School in Texas has been granted a release from his National Letter of Intent with the Golden Eagles men’s basketball team and will not join the program for the 2012-‘13 season.
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/148330865.html
Quote from: Jay Bee on April 20, 2012, 05:37:04 PM
Hope they are restricting him from going to SMU!
It would be great if every school listed UW-Madison on the no transfer list
Wow, only 7 posts 30 minutes? I guess it's not nearly as interesting when it's real information.
Not that surprising. The kid never played his senior year of high school. Very unlikely he'd make the transition to the Big East similar to Mbao and Roseboro.
I don't know why they keep offering these massive projects. Get it done already Buzz. Get that legit big it's been four years now.
I hope the kid finds some place that is a good fit for him. Good luck, Mr. Durley.
This one was all too clear once the coach made his comments. Courtney & Buzz go back. Gotta think Courtney's statement was a tee up for today's announcement. No surprise
Quote from: PVMagic on April 20, 2012, 06:07:08 PM
Wow, only 7 posts 30 minutes? I guess it's not nearly as interesting when it's real information.
There's a reason why companies dump info on Fridays around 5.
Quote from: tower912 on April 20, 2012, 06:11:41 PM
I hope the kid finds some place that is a good fit for him. Good luck, Mr. Durley.
Agreed.... He said all the right things and truly wanted to be a part of the team.... Things didn't work out, but he's seems like a good kid.
Could see this coming from day one. Agree with Stone, it's time Buzz starts signing talented bigs. Let's go. If we want to really compete for the top, we need great bigs.
People are so funny. Yea Buzz make sure you get some burger boys too, since it's so easy.
Quote from: msbjim on April 20, 2012, 06:15:23 PM
Could see this coming from day one. Agree with Stone, it's time Buzz starts signing talented bigs. Let's go. If we want to really compete for the top, we need great bigs.
Right, because he's so busy looking for untalented bigs. Do you know anything about recruiting and how it works or do you make silly statements like this all the time?
But wait... I thought the worst travesty in college basketball history was Uthoff waiting 2 days to go basically wherever he wanted?
Meh... :o
And the question of who is not attending is answered. Until next season. Or earlier than that.
According to IWB and Dodds, with it looking like Otule will be granted a 6th year, Durley didn't see any playing time coming his way until his third year at MU.
Quote from: butchbadger on April 20, 2012, 06:31:07 PM
But wait... I thought the worst travesty in college basketball history was Uthoff waiting 2 days to go basically wherever he wanted?
Meh... :o
should you be watching re-runs of mike and mike?
Time to update the scholarship table take out Durley and put in Lockett.
Quote from: butchbadger on April 20, 2012, 06:31:07 PM
But wait... I thought the worst travesty in college basketball history was Uthoff waiting 2 days to go basically wherever he wanted?
Meh... :o
Letting someone out of their NLI offends you? Is this another one of those things that badger nation has no frame of reference on so you go to your default mode that (A) Bo is a saint and the swing is the greatest offense ever and (B) it happened at MU so it is by definition evil? ::)
Figurin' on at least one more.
Does this mean we won't have anymore threads titled "Aaron Durley" every two weeks?
Even if Lockett transfers here he's a senior which means he wont use a scholarship for 2013 which re-opens the Kendrick Nunn possibilty. :o
Quote from: MUFanatic4Life on April 20, 2012, 06:43:36 PM
Even if Lockett transfers here he's a senior which means he wont use a scholarship for 2013 which re-opens the Kendrick Nunn possibilty. :o
Not really. Now we are even for 2013, if we sign Nunn we would be one over with Otule's 6th.
Quote from: MUFanatic4Life on April 20, 2012, 06:43:36 PM
Even if Lockett transfers here he's a senior which means he wont use a scholarship for 2013 which re-opens the Kendrick Nunn possibilty. :o
scratch that forgot about scrub Otule's 6th year.
Quote from: MUFanatic4Life on April 20, 2012, 06:45:35 PM
scratch that forgot about scrub Otule's 6th year.
Scrub? Do you have any clue about how much better we would have been this year with Otule, or about the value he adds to our defense?
Durley 2 hours ago on twitter
Aaron Durley@ADurley24
It's hurts... I'm not gonna lie... But it's just Fuel to My Fire thats gonna drive me to become the best I can be.. #Back2TheLab #TheLead'
Quote from: TrueBlueAndGold on April 20, 2012, 06:58:06 PM
Scrub? Do you have any clue about how much better we would have been this year with Otule, or about the value he adds to our defense?
No, he does not.
Quote from: ibechillindoe on April 20, 2012, 06:42:35 PM
Does this mean we won't have anymore threads titled "Aaron Durley" every two weeks?
Why would that stop this board????
Quote from: butchbadger on April 20, 2012, 06:31:07 PM
But wait... I thought the worst travesty in college basketball history was Uthoff waiting 2 days to go basically wherever he wanted?
Meh... :o
Compared to Bo's antics, this is very classy.
Quote from: MUFanatic4Life on April 20, 2012, 06:59:28 PM
Durley 2 hours ago on twitter
Aaron Durley@ADurley24
It's hurts... I'm not gonna lie... But it's just Fuel to My Fire thats gonna drive me to become the best I can be.. #Back2TheLab #TheLead'
We sometimes forget we are dealing with kids here. I recall his mother saying in February that Aaron was excited and looking forward to coming to Marquette. I am sure he feels awful today.
Quote from: TrueBlueAndGold on April 20, 2012, 06:58:06 PM
Scrub? Do you have any clue about how much better we would have been this year with Otule, or about the value he adds to our defense?
Yes he is important to our team but we could have so much better plus the dude is a walking injury.
Is this the first sign of the said forthcoming "Marquette basketball Hiroshima?"
Quote from: madtownwarrior on April 20, 2012, 07:06:36 PM
Is this the first sign of the said forthcoming "Marquette basketball Hiroshima?"
Enola Gay you are cleared for take off...
7 minutes away from exactly 175 days to MU madness
Quote from: MUFanatic4Life on April 20, 2012, 07:02:29 PM
Yes he is important to our team but we could have so much better plus the dude is a walking injury.
Sorry, but I'm skeptical. Marquette isn't known as a destination for talented big men, so we have to develop them. Otule has developed into one of the best centers in the Big East, works hard, and is the type of person every team needs. There's definitely a risk of injury with him, but that's not a good enough reason not to take advantage of his 6th year of eligibility, if he's granted it.
Quote from: TrueBlueAndGold on April 20, 2012, 07:12:03 PM
Sorry, but I'm skeptical. Marquette isn't known as a destination for talented big men, so we have to develop them. Otule has developed into one of the best centers in the Big East, works hard, and is the type of person every team needs. There's definitely a risk of injury with him, but that's not a good enough reason not to take advantage of his 6th year of eligibility, if he's granted it.
Maurice Lucas, Jim Chones, Larry McNeill, Jerome Whitehead, Dean Marquardt (no kidding, he was highly rated out of HS,) Walter Downing, Lloyd Moore...and almost Sam Bowie
If we had signed Sam Bowie our death spiral might not have ever happened in the 80's
Quote from: warthog-driver on April 20, 2012, 07:01:47 PM
We sometimes forget we are dealing with kids here. I recall his mother saying in February that Aaron was excited and looking forward to coming to Marquette. I am sure he feels awful today.
100% agreed.
I hope that Aaron is successful wherever he winds up.
Quote from: MUFanatic4Life on April 20, 2012, 07:02:29 PM
Yes he is important to our team but we could have so much better plus the dude is a walking injury.
Who? Really? Better than a 6 year senior Otule? Since we're not going to bring in anyone this season, I'm assuming you mean a freshman in the 2013 class. I promise there will be few (if any) centers in that class better than Otule as a senior. And they will be at Kentucky.
I already miss The Grinch digging himself deep into axxhole! Maybe UW will let him go on Colin Cowherd's show Monday!
The majority of Bigs we sign either never are actually on the roster by the time the season starts or leave after a season. That being said, I think Buzz should not sign any bigs unless they have a 3 star rating. Yeah sure, it's nice to develop players with potential, but were in the Big East, not the A-10 or Horizon League.
Quote from: MUFanatic4Life on April 20, 2012, 06:32:37 PM
And the question of who is not attending is answered. Until next season. Or earlier than that.
No it's not.
Quote from: warthog-driver on April 20, 2012, 06:12:01 PM
This one was all too clear once the coach made his comments. Courtney & Buzz go back. Gotta think Courtney's statement was a tee up for today's announcement. No surprise
That is exactly what I thought the minute I read the article. Feel really bad for the guy.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on April 20, 2012, 07:49:27 PM
That is exactly what I thought the minute I read the article. Feel really bad for the guy.
I feel bad for him too, Sultan. Seems like a nice kid from a nice family. But after his lack of progress last year Buzz, Courtney and I'm sure Aaron himself knew he wasn't ready for D1, Big East basketball. Better for everyone to resolve this now instead of August, December or next June.
I just do not agree with releasing a kid you signed. The smart thing to do is not sign kids in the early signing period, if you are not sure thye are ready. Frankly, I hope Durley turns into a stud and beats MU or whatever team Buzz is coaching in the future.
Quote from: butchbadger on April 20, 2012, 06:31:07 PM
But wait... I thought the worst travesty in college basketball history was Uthoff waiting 2 days to go basically wherever he wanted?
Meh... :o
Oh, Wisconsin agreed to let him go to Iowa?
Quote from: MUFanatic4Life on April 20, 2012, 06:45:35 PM
scratch that forgot about scrub Otule's 6th year.
Someone who would post that Otule is a "scrub" either has not watched ANY MU basketball (despite the FANATIC 4 LIFE moniker), and/or has no idea what they're talking about. Were Chris healthy, he would have helped us IMMENSELY this year, particularly on the defensive end of the floor.
To quote Ron Burgundy, "why don't you sit this next one out, stop talking for a while."
Quote from: bilsu on April 20, 2012, 08:05:55 PM
I just do not agree with releasing a kid you signed. The smart thing to do is not sign kids in the early signing period, if you are not sure thye are ready. Frankly, I hope Durley turns into a stud and beats MU or whatever team Buzz is coaching in the future.
But you have to understand, Otule's injury changed everything with Durley unfortunately. No one could see that forthcoming when Durley signed. Because of that, and Otule now Needing/wanting a 6th year, a scholarship HAD to come from somewhere to accommodate that. It's unfortunate, but sometimes things happen that no one sees coming.
Quote from: muguru on April 20, 2012, 08:30:23 PM
But you have to understand, Otule's injury changed everything with Durley unfortunately. No one could see that forthcoming when Durley signed. Because of that, and Otule now Needing/wanting a 6th year, a scholarship HAD to come from somewhere to accommodate that. It's unfortunate, but sometimes things happen that no one sees coming.
Sorry, but that's crap. They had room until they signed Duane Wilson.
Quote from: bilsu on April 20, 2012, 08:05:55 PM
I just do not agree with releasing a kid you signed. The smart thing to do is not sign kids in the early signing period, if you are not sure thye are ready.
The smart thing? I would say maybe the reasonable/reputable thing to do. The SMART thing to do is let him go and upgrade.....whether you agree with it or not, what just happened is 'smarter' than the alternative.
There is a reason some coaches offer in the early, early, early, signing period (aka 8th grade)--certainly unsure if they are ready.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on April 20, 2012, 08:34:34 PM
Sorry, but that's crap. They had room until they signed Duane Wilson.
I don't agree with you Sultan. Buzz said so himself that the Otule situation changed things with Durley.
Both Durley and Marquette benefited when he committed to Marquette.
Both Durley and Marquette benefited when Durley was released from his letter of intent.
Pretty simple.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on April 20, 2012, 08:34:34 PM
Sorry, but that's crap. They had room until they signed Duane Wilson.
Wilson hasn't SIGNED anything yet, for the record. But it also changed in that now Durley doesn't see himself playing for at least two years at MU. Otule's injury had a major impact on this development, and whether you want to believe that or not, is up to you.
Quote from: THEultimateWARRIOR on April 20, 2012, 08:37:07 PM
I don't agree with you Sultan. Buzz said so himself that the Otule situation changed things with Durley.
Then why now? Why not when Otule decided to have surgery? I understand what you are saying, I am not buying it, though.
Krunti Hester. eom.
Quote from: strotty on April 20, 2012, 08:38:57 PM
Both Durley and Marquette benefited when he committed to Marquette.
Both Durley and Marquette benefited when Durley was released from his letter of intent.
Pretty simple.
this.
Quote from: muguru on April 20, 2012, 08:39:40 PM
Wilson hasn't SIGNED anything yet, for the record. But it also changed in that now Durley doesn't see himself playing for at least two years at MU. Otule's injury had a major impact on this development, and whether you want to believe that or not, is up to you.
Sure does not seem to be that Durley agrees with you. Not sure it was his decision at all.
Quote from: MUMac on April 20, 2012, 08:40:35 PM
Then why now? Why not when Otule decided to have surgery? I understand what you are saying, I am not buying it, though.
I would assume Buzz would never want to do things like that during the season.
Quote from: THEultimateWARRIOR on April 20, 2012, 08:42:19 PM
I would assume Buzz would never want to do things like that during the season.
The season ended nearly a month ago.
Quote from: muguru on April 20, 2012, 08:39:40 PM
Wilson hasn't SIGNED anything yet, for the record. But it also changed in that now Durley doesn't see himself playing for at least two years at MU. Otule's injury had a major impact on this development, and whether you want to believe that or not, is up to you.
That is a different issue than what you brought up earlier. You said the "scholarship had to come from somewhere." We had the scholarship even when Otule got hurt and needed a 6th.
And it seems pretty clear that MU is playing with words. I dont think Durley requested this...he was openly cheering for MU on twitter a couple weeks ago.
Quote from: MUMac on April 20, 2012, 08:41:49 PM
Sure does not seem to be that Durley agrees with you. Not sure it was his decision at all.
I agree. This was not Durley's decision. He seemed pretty upset about it. Buzz knew what was best for the team and for Durley, this was the right move.
Making room for Nolan.
Quote from: THEultimateWARRIOR on April 20, 2012, 08:44:32 PM
I agree. This was not Durley's decision. He seemed pretty upset about it. Buzz knew what was best for the team and for Durley, this was the right move.
Right move? I cannot agree with that. I understand the insensitive side of college basketball. I don't like to see it on display at my alma mater. Buzz signed Durley 5 months ago. Durley has been planing on attending MU. I don't like this situation at all. Really the seedy side of the sport. I am not a fan of what just went down.
Quote from: strotty on April 20, 2012, 08:38:57 PM
Both Durley and Marquette benefited when he committed to Marquette.
Both Durley and Marquette benefited when Durley was released from his letter of intent.
Pretty simple.
+1
Quote from: MUMac on April 20, 2012, 08:50:20 PM
Right move? I cannot agree with that. I understand the insensitive side of college basketball. I don't like to see it on display at my alma mater. Buzz signed Durley 5 months ago. Durley has been planing on attending MU. I don't like this situation at all. Really the seedy side of the sport. I am not a fan of what just went down.
Agreed. I didn't like it with Newbill either. I really like Jamil obviously, and it really isn't his fault, but this is the second time in three years that Buzz has taken fliers on kids, signs them to NLIs, and get leverages his way out of them. He preaches about teaching kids how to become men, and then he backs out on a commitment he makes to someone.
Quote from: strotty on April 20, 2012, 08:38:57 PM
Both Durley and Marquette benefited when he committed to Marquette.
Both Durley and Marquette benefited when Durley was released from his letter of intent.
Pretty simple.
Whatever makes you sleep at night I guess. I fail to see how Durley benefited from these transactions. We should have never signed him.
I have no problem with this happening. It gives the kid enough time to land on his feet and gives us time to sign a higher skilled player. Really is a win -win for both parties. I predict Nolan fills the spot.
Love that Buzz is looking to shape his best roster continually. Relieved Durley won't be on the roster. I have no problem with it, I don't like him signing these crappy bigs only to get their hopes up and then have to part ways. Wish he could land at least a top 250 big.
Quote from: MUMac on April 20, 2012, 08:50:20 PM
Right move? I cannot agree with that. I understand the insensitive side of college basketball. I don't like to see it on display at my alma mater. Buzz signed Durley 5 months ago. Durley has been planing on attending MU. I don't like this situation at all. Really the seedy side of the sport. I am not a fan of what just went down.
So Mac, what about Brett Roseboro?? Didn't Buzz stand behind him when he signed him, only for Roseboro to get to MU and realize he wouldn't get much playing time and ask for his release?? That left Buzz in a bind, and a player short. It works both ways. Maybe Buzz did him a favor??
Or.....how about this....Buzz signs 5 or 6 Durley's or Roseboro's, and suddenly MU isn't winning games because the kids aren't good enough to play at the BE level. Then everyone gets upset, because "Buzz can't recruit, etc etc". It's a double edged sword. Then are you still glad he "stood behind the kids he signed"??
Quote from: Stone Cold on April 20, 2012, 09:01:56 PM
Love that Buzz is looking to shape his best roster continually. Relieved Durley won't be on the roster. I have no problem with it, I don't like him signing these crappy bigs only to get their hopes up and then have to part ways. Wish he could land at least a top 250 big.
Right or wrong, it's about winning games, and winning at a consistent, high level. You can't do that if you don't have the best players to do so.
Quote from: muguru on April 20, 2012, 09:02:39 PM
So Mac, what about Brett Roseboro?? Didn't Buzz stand behind him when he signed him, only for Roseboro to get to MU and realize he wouldn't get much playing time and ask for his release?? That left Buzz in a bind, and a player short. It works both ways. Maybe Buzz did him a favor??
Or.....how about this....Buzz signs 5 or 6 Durley's or Roseboro's, and suddenly MU isn't winning games because the kids aren't good enough to play at the BE level. Then everyone gets upset, because "Buzz can't recruit, etc etc". It's a double edged sword. Then are you still glad he "stood behind the kids he signed"??
Yes. Buzz should stand behind the commitments he makes. Maybe the lesson he needs to learn is that he shouldn't make such commitments so willingly.
I was wrong before....this is the third time in five years he backed out of a signed NLI.
I have no problem with yanking a scholarship after a year. It is a year by year commitment. But I really don't like this one bit.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on April 20, 2012, 09:06:45 PM
Yes. Buzz should stand behind the commitments he makes. Maybe the lesson he needs to learn is that he shouldn't make such commitments so willingly.
I was wrong before....this is the third time in five years he backed out of a signed NLI.
I have no problem with yanking a scholarship after a year. It is a year by year commitment. But I really don't like this one bit.
In all fairness, both times Buzz "backed out" it worked out for the kid.
Quote from: strotty on April 20, 2012, 09:07:53 PM
In all fairness, both times Buzz "backed out" it worked out for the kid.
What? DJ Newbill went to Southern Miss...transferred to Penn State...sat out a year because of the transfer and meanwhile his coach left. That worked out better than going to MU?
Roseboro went to St. Bonaventure and transferred to UMBC.
C'mon.... Buzz just needs to stop signing kids like this.
Quote from: muguru on April 20, 2012, 09:02:39 PM
So Mac, what about Brett Roseboro?? Didn't Buzz stand behind him when he signed him, only for Roseboro to get to MU and realize he wouldn't get much playing time and ask for his release?? That left Buzz in a bind, and a player short. It works both ways. Maybe Buzz did him a favor??
Or.....how about this....Buzz signs 5 or 6 Durley's or Roseboro's, and suddenly MU isn't winning games because the kids aren't good enough to play at the BE level. Then everyone gets upset, because "Buzz can't recruit, etc etc". It's a double edged sword. Then are you still glad he "stood behind the kids he signed"??
How many times did we read "in Buzz we trust" when it came to discussions about Durley. Sorry, but this is 3 now - Roseboro, Newbill and Durley. I am not a fan of this. Why sign him in November then? Durley was planning to come here. UW has signed players who did not pan out, they did not cut them loose. As much as it pains me to say it, I prefer that way.
The favor would have been not to rush to sign him. Buzz did, and 5 months later cut him loose. As I stated, I am not a fan of this crap. I see all the rationalization going on. I cannot and will not do that.
Buzz has gone down a notch in my mind. And I have been a staunch Buzz defender.
Nolan's all but going to prep school, he's doubtful to qualify. Give us Lockett now. If anyone else leaves the spot is likely going unfilled until 2013, in which case we have room for Nunn and/or perhaps then a big.
Quote from: Stone Cold on April 20, 2012, 09:01:56 PM
Love that Buzz is looking to shape his best roster continually. Relieved Durley won't be on the roster. I have no problem with it, I don't like him signing these crappy bigs only to get their hopes up and then have to part ways. Wish he could land at least a top 250 big.
Agree. I understand it's talking out of your ass to say "go sign a talented stud big man", but when Buzz has whiffed with these guys he's whiffed spin around and fall on your butt in the dirt bad. Roseboro wasn't even a D1 player much less a high major, and with Mbao it took until his third year on a roster, second year playing, and MAC competition for him to finally score a basket at the end of the year. If you can't find a talented player might as well go sign a Jamil Lott or Trend Blackledge, not exactly studs but at least they knew what game they were playing.
Anyone remember the "false" Jim Hicks report back at the end of November quoting Durley's mom about Aaron going to JUCO?
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on April 20, 2012, 09:13:42 PM
Anyone remember the "false" Jim Hicks report back at the end of November quoting Durley's mom about Aaron going to JUCO?
She and Aaron both vehemently denied that report, so unless they were telling bold-faced lies to me on the phone (and doing so pretty convincingly), I don't think this was decided upon in November, or anywhere near that date.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on April 20, 2012, 08:58:15 PM
Whatever makes you sleep at night I guess. I fail to see how Durley benefited from these transactions. We should have never signed him.
Aaron was so disappointing as a high school senior he rarely played. If he came to Marquette the likely scenario was a)burning a year of eligibilty stapled to the bench, then b)transferring to a more suitable situation and having to sit out a year. How is opening up the recruiting process and finding a better fit not more benificial than that?
When Buzz signed Aaron he was the 27th rated center in his class and way ahead of Otule at the same stage of his career. This year his stock dropped like a rock according to his own coach. I feel terrible for the kid, but the fact that he went from prospect to suspect is on him. Why compound the mistake and punish both him and Marquette?
Quote from: strotty on April 20, 2012, 09:15:01 PM
She and Aaron both vehemently denied that report, so unless they were telling bold-faced lies to me on the phone (and doing so pretty convincingly), I don't think this was decided upon in November, or anywhere near that date.
I didn't say they lied, but Hicks gets info from other sources as well. This was well whispered.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on April 20, 2012, 09:20:23 PM
I didn't say they lied, but Hicks gets info from other sources as well. This was well whispered.
His only source was Durley's mom, and she said her words were misconstrued.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 20, 2012, 09:20:05 PM
Aaron was so disappointing as a high school senior he rarely played. If he came to Marquette the likely scenario was a)burning a year of eligibilty stapled to the bench, then b)transferring to a more suitable situation and having to sit out a year. How is opening up the recruiting process and finding a better fit not more benificial than that?
When Buzz signed Aaron he was the 27th rated center in his class and way ahead of Otule at the same stage of his career. This year his stock dropped like a rock according to his own coach. I feel terrible for the kid, but the fact that he went from prospect to suspect is on him. Why compound the mistake and punish both him and Marquette?
I agree.
Buzz probably said something along the lines of, "you will probably not play next year, and then I will have to pull your scholly. Or you could get out of your NLI. I recommend you pull out of your NLI rather than burn a year here riding the bench."
What is the sense in bringing Durley in for a year? So some people can sleep better at night?
This was a good turn of events for all parties involved.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 20, 2012, 09:20:05 PM
Aaron was so disappointing as a high school senior he rarely played. If he came to Marquette the likely scenario was a)burning a year of eligibilty stapled to the bench, then b)transferring to a more suitable situation and having to sit out a year. How is opening up the recruiting process and finding a better fit not more benificial than that?
When Buzz signed Aaron he was the 27th rated center in his class and way ahead of Otule at the same stage of his career. This year his stock dropped like a rock according to his own coach. I feel terrible for the kid, but the fact that he went from prospect to suspect is on him. Why compound the mistake and punish both him and Marquette?
Fine. I'm going to withhold further judgement until the rest of the story comes out...including comments from the Durley family. If they agreed with this, then you are right...who am I to argue?
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 20, 2012, 09:27:27 PM
Buzz probably said something along the lines of, "you will probably not play next year, and then I will have to pull your scholly. Or you could get out of your NLI. I recommend you pull out of your NLI rather than burn a year here riding the bench."
I honestly don't know what would be better.
Quote from: strotty on April 20, 2012, 09:24:27 PM
His only source was Durley's mom, and she said her words were misconstrued.
His only quoted source. Hicks has many other sources, enough to ask her the question at the time. No coincidence, nor was Courtney's interview the other day.
This doesn't look great on the surface, but I have zero problem with it if Buzz and the staff were clear with the kid from day one that this could happen if his game didn't progress.
If that is true, and like Blackheart said it has been whispered since about the time he signed that an agreement of sorts existed like this.
That is a win-win IMO. Buzz signs the kid early, but is open with him about the downside. If he blows up, we have a valuable commodity locked up. If he doesn't he'll be released with enough time to find a suitable landing spot. If he truly isn't ready for MU (and that seems obvious) than this outcome is WAY better for both sides than having him show up, ride the pine for a year while losing a year of eligibility, only to have to transfer and sit out another year.
I fail to see the problem with this.
And btw, only my opinion but I think the Newbill situation may have been different (no inside info there) and that situation didn't seem as OK to me because the kid wasn't left with as much time to find another option. IIRC, the Newbill/Jamil trade happened in mid to late summer.
Quote from: Goose on April 20, 2012, 08:58:32 PM
I have no problem with this happening. It gives the kid enough time to land on his feet and gives us time to sign a higher skilled player. Really is a win -win for both parties. I predict Nolan fills the spot.
Not unless Marquette is becoming a prep school which is where Nolan is headed, again.
Roseboro ... September
Newbill ... Summer
Durley ... late April
Is this a real trend is dealing with marginal recruits or a coincidence?
If it is a real trend. Early is better and Buzz seems to be making the call much earlier.
And I agree this was the right move. How does MU and Durley benefit from Durley DNPing at the end of the bench?
Glad he was given the time to find he right place.
This all stems from the Otule injury. Buzz is doing what he needs to keep winning. Wilson signing set the tone as well. Buzz gets a one year player like Russell Wilson, gets a quality player
with experience and becomes a better team for next year. Lights a fire under TJ Taylor and Todd Mayo. There is competition on this team for playing time now. Vander may have to watch
out as well. I would not be surprised with another transfer if Luckett signs next week. It is going to be tough for Anderson or Jones to see the court, next year or ever. Big time baskeball is at MU again!
Quote from: thebigjake on April 20, 2012, 09:33:50 PM
This doesn't look great on the surface, but I have zero problem with it if Buzz and the staff were clear with the kid from day one that this could happen if his game didn't progress.
If that is true, and like Blackheart said it has been whispered since about the time he signed that an agreement of sorts existed like this.
That is a win-win IMO. Buzz signs the kid early, but is open with him about the downside. If he blows up, we have a valuable commodity locked up. If he doesn't he'll be released with enough time to find a suitable landing spot. If he truly isn't ready for MU (and that seems obvious) than this outcome is WAY better for both sides than having him show up, ride the pine for a year while losing a year of eligibility, only to have to transfer and sit out another year.
I fail to see the problem with this.
And btw, only my opinion but I think the Newbill situation may have been different (no inside info there) and that situation didn't seem as OK to me because the kid wasn't left with as much time to find another option. IIRC, the Newbill/Jamil trade happened in mid to late summer.
Wow, are you giving Buzz the benefit of the doubt here.
I like Buzz. Like him a lot and have always supported him, right from when he first got the job. Glad he's our coach. Etc. I just wish he wouldn't sign kids like this in the first place. It's not "win-win." It's loser lose.
To sign Durley, fill him with hope, only to toss him aside five months later ... I just don't like it.
I know Buzz isn't the only guy ever to have done it. That doesn't mean we have to like it.
As I (and so many others) said so many times, if you're 6-10 and not even good enough to play garbage time in high school, you obviously aren't a high-major player. Yet anytime any of us wondered about Durley's rightful place as a college athlete, we were told to shut up and trust Buzz. Please.
The last few weeks, it became so obvious that Buzz was going to dump Durley, I actually found myself feeling sorry for the kid. The speculation on this board that it might be this guy or that guy ... come on. Durley was so obvious.
And then his tool of a high school coach does an absolute hatchet job in Buzz's behalf. The more I think about it, the more grotesque it seems. And now these coaches and leaders of young men can tell us it's all about the kids. What a crock.
Still like Buzz. Just disappointed this happened this way. The whole episode was unnecessary, and it ended up reflecting poorly on both him and the program.
Otules injury put Buzz in a pickle. Luckett wanting to come to MU sealed the deal, if he told Buzz he was coming.
Quote from: MUMac on April 20, 2012, 08:50:20 PM
Right move? I cannot agree with that. I understand the insensitive side of college basketball. I don't like to see it on display at my alma mater. Buzz signed Durley 5 months ago. Durley has been planing on attending MU. I don't like this situation at all. Really the seedy side of the sport. I am not a fan of what just went down.
Absolutely Disagree buzz did not know Otile was gonna get hurt. If otule does not get get hurt then Durley u u is still coming. U cannot ask buzz to be more loyal to durley than otule
Quote from: bilsu on April 20, 2012, 08:05:55 PM
I just do not agree with releasing a kid you signed. The smart thing to do is not sign kids in the early signing period, if you are not sure thye are ready. Frankly, I hope Durley turns into a stud and beats MU or whatever team Buzz is coaching in the future.
Why would you hope that?
Quote from: Stone Cold on April 20, 2012, 09:01:56 PM
Love that Buzz is looking to shape his best roster continually. Relieved Durley won't be on the roster. I have no problem with it, I don't like him signing these crappy bigs only to get their hopes up and then have to part ways. Wish he could land at least a top 250 big.
Agreed. Always look to make your roster better. You make a recruiting mistake? Fix it before the kid gets to school.
Don't like this at all. Largely because I really liked the combination of what we heard early and what we heard from Aaron and his family. But I really don't like us having the offer out there and pulling the rug out from under this kid. I trust our coaching staff to make solid, educated decisions when it comes to bringing kids in. There was no injury here we know of, nothing that Durley did to deserve this. We agreed to give him his shot when we accepted his LOI.
What I especially don't like is how this seems to contradict Buzz's character. As I remember, he never personally watched JFB. He saw DJO for only a few minutes, and he saw Jae in one game, get in foul trouble, and basically play cheerleader. If he's willing to take a chance on them, why not Aaron? I can't help but feel like this is a bit of a character revealed moment, and not in a good way.
One positive...our PR department finally wins one. Excellent timing on the announcement. I may not like the news, but for once it was handled appropriately.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on April 20, 2012, 08:43:20 PM
That is a different issue than what you brought up earlier. You said the "scholarship had to come from somewhere." We had the scholarship even when Otule got hurt and needed a 6th.
And it seems pretty clear that MU is playing with words. I dont think Durley requested this...he was openly cheering for MU on twitter a couple weeks ago.
No kidding. But buzz has to choose durley or otule n he is gonna be loyal to chris
Cue Rodents coming out the woodwork in 3.....2......1..... ::)
Quote from: KenoshaWarrior on April 20, 2012, 10:42:00 PM
Cue Rodents coming out the woodwork in 3.....2......1..... ::)
They're too busy having a bud light with Bo.
That reminds me - time to drink!
... and Golden Tee!
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 20, 2012, 10:36:38 PM
Don't like this at all. Largely because I really liked the combination of what we heard early and what we heard from Aaron and his family. But I really don't like us having the offer out there and pulling the rug out from under this kid. I trust our coaching staff to make solid, educated decisions when it comes to bringing kids in. There was no injury here we know of, nothing that Durley did to deserve this. We agreed to give him his shot when we accepted his LOI.
What I especially don't like is how this seems to contradict Buzz's character. As I remember, he never personally watched JFB. He saw DJO for only a few minutes, and he saw Jae in one game, get in foul trouble, and basically play cheerleader. If he's willing to take a chance on them, why not Aaron? I can't help but feel like this is a bit of a character revealed moment, and not in a good way.
One positive...our PR department finally wins one. Excellent timing on the announcement. I may not like the news, but for once it was handled appropriately.
I think you are jumping to conclusions a little, but I guess that is what message boards are for. It would be nice to get some quotes from the parents/coach. I'm just hoping everyone is on board this time compared to the Newbill episode where it was clear not everyone was informed of the situation.
i'm a huge buzz fan but i'm with mac and sultan on this one; don't like it at all. i'll wait for durley's side of the story but i fear it will be that "assistant coach X called and said i no longer had a scholarship." i hope my gut feeling is wrong!
with the rumored new restrictions placed on buzz by the administation, how was this allowed to go down (pending it was not a mutual decision)?
If you are fine with this from a basketball perspective, and that outweighs any other concern you might have about it, fine, but admit that. But cmon, enough rationalizing.
Among the more porous sentiments:
1) That this is win-win --- Stop it. Thats remarkably condescending. Durley gets to decide whats best for Durley. All everyone here says when Buzz is still recruiting w/ no schollies in his pocket is, "Anything can happen, keep going Buzz!" What if Durley wanted to say the same thing? We've got two bigs on the roster with recovering injuries and serious mobility issues. Hell, in the past few weeks, some of the same people who are now praising this move were saying "Its going to be so great for Durley to practice behind Otule and Gardner and learn behind them. We need to develop bigs. Guys with Durley's size don't grow on trees." Now this is whats best for him? Please.
2) Buzz has to be more loyal to Otule than Durley -- Two points: a) everyone pointing out that this is better for Durley than enrolling at MU is relying on the fact that schollies are renewable every year, so it could've gotten pulled next year. So how long does a player need to be on the roster before Buzz "owes" him a schollie over someone else while he overrecruits? Or is it just whoever is on the roster the longest deserves the most loyalty? By that logic, you could pull Otule's scholarship just as easily as Durley's. b) There is no way its less loyal to say "Chris, we really appreciate all you've done for the program, but no one could have foreseen what has happened here and we had already committed the scholarship because we thought you were going to be gone." Its Chris' situation that is so unusual and unforeseen. Not Durley's. Would this certainly suck for Chris? Of course. But at the end of the day, it isn't more disloyal to tell him you just can't afford another year of scholarship just because the NCAA makes an exception and says its okay than it is to pull the rug out from Durley.
well at least we can switch the topic from "Buzz almost went to SMU / administration is pushing Buzz out" to "how can Buzz possibly pull this kids scholarship"
and soon the promised Marquette Basketball Hiroshima?
I don't like this move to release Durley from his LOI. Seems really smarmy and can't help but feel this trend of releasing guys from their LOI will be used against Buzz on the recruiting trail by opposing programs.
Quote from: Stone Cold on April 20, 2012, 06:09:43 PM
Not that surprising. The kid never played his senior year of high school. Very unlikely he'd make the transition to the Big East similar to Mbao and Roseboro.
I don't know why they keep offering these massive projects. Get it done already Buzz. Get that legit big it's been four years now.
Gosh, that made me look them up. Mbao was worth 0.32% Value Add (all on defense of course) for Marshall to be in the top half of all D1 players but obviously nowhere near Big East level. Roseboro was actually worth 0.01% Value Add for St. B's, and actually almost half of players have no value add, so he did just little. In fairness though DJ Newbill was a top 500 player.
In general though, i still say these kind of releases are good when it just becomes evident the player can have a much more fulfilling career at another school than being buried at the end of the bench at MU. This isn't a tough one. Obviously the tough and fair debate is if we get a late 5-star at some point in the future and someone who is a decent BE bench player is odd man out.
I believe this is the type of situation that causing a problem for Buzz with the brass. The off court stuff is made worse because the over recruiting and letting kids go looks bad to some. Obviously everything comes to character and being in position of telling one kid no to get another kid does not play well in some circles.
If they want to compete they better get used to it. Doesn't the AD have to sign off on the release? If they feel that bad about it why don't they give the kid an academic schollie and ease their minds?
It's Buzz's responsibility to field the best team possible. This means the most talented players that give MU a chance to succeed. Durley had a terrible senior year period. His poor play or lack of play simply took him out of scholarship contention. This action was appropriate. We need talented players period.
I would like Durley at MU. But IMO, there are two reasons he isn't coming. 1. Otule coming back for a 6th year. (IMO, he wouldn't have been ready to contribute until his third season anyway, which leads to the second reason.......) 2. He made no progress his senior year. Again, IMO, Buzz and Co game to the conclusion that this guy was not going to play for a couple of years, if at all. I disagree, but I haven't seen him. My final opinion is that if CO wasn't coming back for a 6th year, Durley would be coming in and perhaps red-shirting.
Quote from: msbjim on April 21, 2012, 07:07:20 AM
It's Buzz's responsibility to field the best team possible. This means the most talented players that give MU a chance to succeed. Durley had a terrible senior year period. His poor play or lack of play simply took him out of scholarship contention. This action was appropriate. We need talented players period.
Disagree. There's more to this than just fielding the best team. And there's nothing wrong with having your 12th and 13th man not really contribute, if it comes to that. This isn't pro basketball, and I don't like the idea of playing fantasy sports with a kid's life. I sincerely hope that Durley was fully involved in this process.
Winning is important, but I don't want to turn into Kentucky in the process.
This was not done in a vacuum and Coach Courtney had input and was included in discussion. He was in agreement that Aaron was not ready to play in the BE. I hope that Aaron finds great success on and off the court.
BD
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 21, 2012, 07:12:30 AM
Disagree. There's more to this than just fielding the best team. And there's nothing wrong with having your 12th and 13th man not really contribute, if it comes to that. This isn't pro basketball, and I don't like the idea of playing fantasy sports with a kid's life. I sincerely hope that Durley was fully involved in this process.
Winning is important, but I don't want to turn into Kentucky in the process.
Brew, this doesn't turn us into Kentucky. My son isn't Harvard material. Part of my job as a parent during his college search process is to help him make a good choice that positions him well for the future. If Harvard had 'offered' him this Spring, I would have encouraged him not to head in that direction for his own good. Durley's HS coach and Buzz did the same (and right) thing by the young man. Sure he's disappointed. But in the long run this will pay off for him.
For comparisons sake, assume Buzz ran Mellow off the team right now to make room for some stud recruit. Now that would be a 'Kentucky' move and wrong on every level.
Quote from: thehammock on April 20, 2012, 11:39:37 PM
i'm a huge buzz fan but i'm with mac and sultan on this one; don't like it at all. i'll wait for durley's side of the story but i fear it will be that "assistant coach X called and said i no longer had a scholarship." i hope my gut feeling is wrong!
with the rumored new restrictions placed on buzz by the administation, how was this allowed to go down (pending it was not a mutual decision)?
This quote, like many on this thread, fit into the "rag picker" mentality. All the comments, in this and other posts, are conditioned on assumptions the poster does not know ... "I'll wait for Durley's side of the story, but fear ... rumored new restrictions ... pending it was not a mutual decision", etc.
This, and most of the other posts in this thread, reminds this alum of Logic 101. "A chair has four legs, a dog has four legs, therefore a chair must be a dog."
It would do all of us well to stick to the facts, and not make things up to fit our own (fractured) thought process.
He clearly didn't have the senior season expected from a High-Major. He is a big time project that may pan out eventually, but that is a big question mark. Most guys never develop. It's hard. Had he come, he would have surely not seen any minutes his first 2 years at least...even with another injury at center. Buzz prefers to go with a skilled small in that situation. Odds are he would have transferred after Freshman season. It would at least be wildly speculated and the process would repeat after Sophomore season. That's no fun for anyone.
I hope he picks a school where he can gain game experience right away. I'll definitely be rooting for him.
A tad off topic, but would it be safe to assume that the posters pre 8:00 am on a Saturday morning are not students and probably have first hand knowledge of the Al era? ;)
Quote from: wiscwarrior on April 21, 2012, 08:00:24 AM
A tad off topic, but would it be safe to assume that the posters pre 8:00 am on a Saturday morning are not students and probably have first hand knowledge of the Al era? ;)
LOL. God it sucks to be old!
Guilty as charged, I had great seats for all the home games in 77! I thought Durley would go Juco this year when I saw
all his DNPs.
Quote from: BigDaddy84 on April 21, 2012, 07:22:25 AM
This was not done in a vacuum and Coach Courtney had input and was included in discussion. He was in agreement that Aaron was not ready to play in the BE. I hope that Aaron finds great success on and off the court.
BD
Quoted since it was probably missed.
Anyone who claims the rug was pulled out from Durley is misinformed.
He probably saw it coming months ago like more than a few of us.
Life Lessons with Buzz. Quote about preparing young men to be husbands and fathers. Wearing Christianity on your sleeve.
These are all positive things that appear to make our coach genuine and perhaps somewhat unique in what many regard as a less than human business. For our Jesuit school which teaches and preaches Ad Majorem Dei Gloriem, that's appealing.
Now we see our leader chasing one kid (Lockett) as he makes room for him by rescinding a commitment to another kid.
This is not happening at this moment because of Otule. We need a schollie right now because Lockett might average 15 ppg next year, DJO's gone and Vander cant shoot. All of our decisions are being driven by making the team better. For some, that's all that matters. For others, it stinks of MU becoming like "the other kinda schools."
For me it's tough to take because of all the talk about having a higher purpose and a commitment to these kids.
And don't tell me it's a win-win. Durley's tweet shows he wanted to be here. What if that's as much about school as it is about hoops?
Life Lessons just had a summer school session.
Hards
I would agree this just did not happen overnight and unfortunately many only see the end result. I am sure Buzz has the kids best interest in mind and not trying to hurt the kid.
Durley played JV as a junior. His coach didn't play him as a senior. With Otule coming back, he wasn't going to see much playing time until his third year at MU. That means 4 straight years of not much playing time. Maybe the whole "hurting right now" quote is about the fact that he knew he wasn't going to play much at MU, was sad that his original plan had fallen through, but knew he wanted to go somewhere he could actually play. From that perspective, there is every chance this was a relatively mutual decision.
Quote from: nycwarrior on April 21, 2012, 08:18:40 AM
Life Lessons with Buzz. Quote about preparing young men to be husbands and fathers. Wearing Christianity on your sleeve.
These are all positive things that appear to make our coach genuine and perhaps somewhat unique in what many regard as a less than human business. For our Jesuit school which teaches and preaches Ad Majorem Dei Gloriem, that's appealing.
Now we see our leader chasing one kid (Lockett) as he makes room for him by rescinding a commitment to another kid.
This is not happening at this moment because of Otule. We need a schollie right now because Lockett might average 15 ppg next year, DJO's gone and Vander cant shoot. All of our decisions are being driven by making the team better. For some, that's all that matters. For others, it stinks of MU becoming like "the other kinda schools."
For me it's tough to take because of all the talk about having a higher purpose and a commitment to these kids.
And don't tell me it's a win-win. Durley's tweet shows he wanted to be here. What if that's as much about school as it is about hoops?
Life Lessons just had a summer school session.
Of course he wanted to be here. But it is not in HIS best interest. And the 2 basketball experts in his life right now are facilitating that with the least amount of disruption for Aaron.
Quote from: jsglow on April 21, 2012, 08:52:13 AM
Of course he wanted to be here. But it is not in HIS best interest. And the 2 basketball experts in his life right now are facilitating that with the least amount of disruption for Aaron.
And while I understand that, how many fliers is Buzz going to take on this type of player? He has backed out of NLIs three of the last five years...I simply don't like that trend.
First of all I'm not going to say this was some kind of mutual decision or the kids decision. Based on his tweet it clearly wasn't.
That said I can live with it and I don't think it says anything really negative about Buzz or the program.
This is big time college athletics boys. These guys are being offered $200,000 in scholarship, expensive training facilities, the chance to be coached by a multimillion dollar coaching staff, a decent shot at the NBA.
Durley's tweet says he'll be more motivated now. Well maybe he should have been more "motivated" during his senior year. Obviously from his HS Coach's point of view he wasn't.
Buzz was willing to take a flyer on this guy probably because he figured he'd red shirt his first year while CO as a senior and Davante as a junior played ahead of him. Then after a red-shirt year he back up Davante while we try to recruit another center. Well guess what. When Chris got injuried and in effect got a 6th season that all changed. Now the staff is looking at 2 years where Durley won't see the floor. All of that said if this guy was putting up good HS numbers they still take him. BUT HE ISN'T AND THAT IS ON HIM.
For all we know his coach may have told Buzz "You know I told you to take a flyer on this kid because he has potential but after this year I'm not so sure, he just doesn't get it."
To me this is not nearly as heartless as forcing guys into walkon status (as Louisville has done) or kicking guys off the team. Its not even as heartless as what some on this board have advocated "Not allowing Chris a 6th year so we can move on and he'll probably get injured anyway." That is HEARTLESS.
IF MU is going to have to take chances on guys this is going to happen and people can't resort to all kinds of hand ringing when it does.
Wow, and the kid had a 427 mph fastball.
Seriously, feel bad for the kid. Also feel a little stupid for drinking the koolaid on this one that Buzz was serving.
Curious how Enlund's interview of Durley's coach came about. Did the coach initiate it? If so, seems like a cheap shot. Did Buzz call the coach and put him up to the interview? Did Buzz call Enlund, and tell him to do the interview? I doubt if Enlund figured this out all on his own.
Best of luck to Durley.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 21, 2012, 08:11:55 AM
Quoted since it was probably missed.
Anyone who claims the rug was pulled out from Durley is misinformed.
He probably saw it coming months ago like more than a few of us.
Honest question:
If Durley saw this coming, is/was he allowed to talk to other schools when he was already signed by MU?
Why would Durley not be disappointed? What kid wouldn't want to come to a Top 15 program on scholarship? The bottom line is that this was not an out of the blue Buzz-cut - there were clear understandings from the beginning that it was a conditional schollie...practically since the day he signed the NLI.
Durley had an awful senior year - and didn't show nearly enough that he was deserving of a Big East scholarship. Perhaps he goes prep/Juco and comes back to MU in several years..or he goes very low major right now.
To not think the kid is disappointed or upset is ridiculous. However, just because he is upset/disappointed does not mean he was wronged/misled/or unaware of the deal from the start.
Quote from: Ners on April 21, 2012, 09:21:36 AM
Why would Durley not be disappointed? What kid wouldn't want to come to a Top 15 program on scholarship? The bottom line is that this was not an out of the blue Buzz-cut - there were clear understandings from the beginning that it was a conditional schollie...practically since the day he signed the NLI.
Really? How do you know this?
(This should be good....too early in the morning for popcorn though.)
Ners
Agreed the kid was not "wronged" by the situation. There are dozens if not more posts on Durley on here over past months that speculated he would end up at JUCO or Prep school. Why all of sudden would anybody be shocked and/or disappointed in the news? Durley can be disappointed but do not think anyone else should be by the news.
All that said, Buzz probably needs to narrow his lists on offers. Would say that Buzz is probably perfect guy to sign higher rated recruits late in the cycle and he does not need to sign flyer's early in process. If everything spring Buzz had one or two spots in his back pocket I would bet he would improve team more than taking early projects. Some coaches would have me worried with open spots in April...not Buzz.
Sultan,
I understand you comments on signing kids and them letting go to some degree. I do not think Buzz is trying to screw the kid and I give him more of a pass than most I would most coaches.However, I do think having this happen is not great reflection of school to many outsiders. Buzz needs to limit his offers and have confidence he will get kids he wants. He is far from at the picking kids he wants stage but he also is not in chasing stage on trying to build a brand.. He needs to learn where he is as a coach and the program is in different place than 4-5 years ago. I think that comes with maturity.
Quote from: wiscwarrior on April 21, 2012, 08:00:24 AM
A tad off topic, but would it be safe to assume that the posters pre 8:00 am on a Saturday morning are not students and probably have first hand knowledge of the Al era? ;)
t'would in my case.
Quote from: nycwarrior on April 21, 2012, 08:18:40 AM
Life Lessons with Buzz. Quote about preparing young men to be husbands and fathers. Wearing Christianity on your sleeve.
These are all positive things that appear to make our coach genuine and perhaps somewhat unique in what many regard as a less than human business. For our Jesuit school which teaches and preaches Ad Majorem Dei Gloriem, that's appealing.
Now we see our leader chasing one kid (Lockett) as he makes room for him by rescinding a commitment to another kid.
This is not happening at this moment because of Otule. We need a schollie right now because Lockett might average 15 ppg next year, DJO's gone and Vander cant shoot. All of our decisions are being driven by making the team better. For some, that's all that matters. For others, it stinks of MU becoming like "the other kinda schools."
For me it's tough to take because of all the talk about having a higher purpose and a commitment to these kids.
And don't tell me it's a win-win. Durley's tweet shows he wanted to be here. What if that's as much about school as it is about hoops?
Life Lessons just had a summer school session.
First of all, this is not being done to make room for Lockett or anyone else. What if there will be room to bring in Lockett without Durley leaving?? Then would it look so bad to you?? That Durley was NOT released to make room for a "better" player??
ATWiz
Unfortunately I fall into same camp. Getting old sucks!
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on April 21, 2012, 09:27:43 AM
Really? How do you know this?
(This should be good....too early in the morning for popcorn though.)
Ahh...ever heard of the cliche where there is smoke there is fire Sultan? Its surrounded the Durley recruitment since Day 1. I'd suggest you go get yourself a big sh$tburger to eat..forget about the popcorn..king of the IWB and Mark Miller "retweet."
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on April 21, 2012, 08:55:46 AM
And while I understand that, how many fliers is Buzz going to take on this type of player? He has backed out of NLIs three of the last five years...I simply don't like that trend.
Absolutely valid. Buzz erred in offering Aaron. Both sides would have been best served by a 'wait and see' approach. But give him credit for fixing the situation.
Quote from: Ners on April 21, 2012, 09:39:42 AM
Ahh...ever heard of the cliche where there is smoke there is fire Sultan? Its surrounded the Durley recruitment since Day 1. I'd suggest you go get yourself a big sh$tburger to eat..forget about the popcorn..king of the IWB and Mark Miller "retweet."
Ahh...I figured. Simply biased speculation on your part. Move along now.
This is just amazing. Why do so many of you immediately jump to the conclusion that this was dirty or immoral when there is plenty of evidence that this was known by all parties as a possibility all along? Aaron tweeting that he was hurt may mean he wasn't the one deciding this, but no one was suggesting that. But it also doesn't mean that he didn't know this was possible. I believe that Newbill didn't see his thing coming, and the quotes coming from him and his coach afterward support that. There are no such quotes coming from Aaron's family or coach this time.
Remember back in November when his mother was quoted that Aaron was going JUCO? Why would she say that? Do you really think she was misquoted? I have a hard time believing she actually said "Aaron is looking forward to MU" and somehow the person who printed that mistakenly heard her say "Aaron is going to JUCO." Isn't it more logical that she knew the LOI was heavily conditional, so much so that she was operating under the assumption that JUCO was more likely than MU?
"So why the correction?" you will no doubt say.
Isn't it more logical that the MU coaches hadn't decided yet and upon seeing that quote immediately called her and said something to the effect of "hold on Mrs. Durley, we are still very interested in Aaron and continue to monitor his progress. At this point we are still planning on bringing Aaron up." That whole thing happened in November, before he was even a month into his senior season. His majorly disappointing senior season. It also happened before Otule got hurt.
Or is it just easier to assume that Buzz is screwing that kid over. If so, wouldn't the quotes coming from the Durley side display more anger or surprise? Wouldn't his coach be backing him more?
I'm no insider, but i was told a very long time ago that there was an understanding between MU and the Durley's that the LOI was conditional. It was a 2nd or 3rd hand source, but it sure seems true now. There is nothing wrong with doing that if both sides are aware and agree. It makes sense because anyone could see (including the Durley's) that this kid had some upside, but at that point was still a major project. It helped Aaron because if it worked out (i.e. he earned it) he had his spot reserved and if it didn't he would go JUCO or prep or at the very worst have time to find another D1 spot.
The criticisms of Aaron all along have centered on his motivation. Maybe he needed this kick to see that.
I didn't really like the Newbill situation, but this one i have no problem with. I think Buzz learned from the Newbill thing to be very clear early and often to avoid the bad blood that resulted the first time. I also think the only reason DJN was cut was because Jamil became available and Buzz didn't see that coming. He made a tough choice and rightfully got criticized by many. Now he knows that when you sign a project you make darn sure they understand that he is viewed as such and that his spot isn't guaranteed. So when a Lockett comes open, or Otule gets hurt and adds another year or something else unexpected happens then you can do what you have to do and everyone understands. Of course, if Durley was putting up big numbers and holding his own against Ridley he would be coming to MU in the fall. Heck, he still may show up at MU in a few years. I wouldn't bet that, but it is possible.
Quote from: thebigjake on April 21, 2012, 09:48:53 AM
This is just amazing. Why do so many of you immediately jump to the conclusion that this was dirty or immoral when there is plenty of evidence that this was known by all parties as a possibility all along? Aaron tweeting that he was hurt may mean he wasn't the one deciding this, but no one was suggesting that. But it also doesn't mean that he didn't know this was possible. I believe that Newbill didn't see his thing coming, and the quotes coming from him and his coach afterward support that. There are no such quotes coming from Aaron's family or coach this time.
Remember back in November when his mother was quoted that Aaron was going JUCO? Why would she say that? Do you really think she was misquoted? I have a hard time believing she actually said "Aaron is looking forward to MU" and somehow the person who printed that mistakenly heard her say "Aaron is going to JUCO." Isn't it more logical that she knew the LOI was heavily conditional, so much so that she was operating under the assumption that JUCO was more likely than MU?
"So why the correction?" you will no doubt say.
Isn't it more logical that the MU coaches hadn't decided yet and upon seeing that quote immediately called her and said something to the effect of "hold on Mrs. Durley, we are still very interested in Aaron and continue to monitor his progress. At this point we are still planning on bringing Aaron up." That whole thing happened in November, before he was even a month into his senior season. His majorly disappointing senior season. It also happened before Otule got hurt.
Or is it just easier to assume that Buzz is screwing that kid over. If so, wouldn't the quotes coming from the Durley side display more anger or surprise? Wouldn't his coach be backing him more?
I'm no insider, but i was told a very long time ago that there was an understanding between MU and the Durley's that the LOI was conditional. It was a 2nd or 3rd hand source, but it sure seems true now. There is nothing wrong with doing that if both sides are aware and agree. It makes sense because anyone could see (including the Durley's) that this kid had some upside, but at that point was still a major project. It helped Aaron because if it worked out (i.e. he earned it) he had his spot reserved and if it didn't he would go JUCO or prep or at the very worst have time to find another D1 spot.
The criticisms of Aaron all along have centered on his motivation. Maybe he needed this kick to see that.
I didn't really like the Newbill situation, but this one i have no problem with. I think Buzz learned from the Newbill thing to be very clear early and often to avoid the bad blood that resulted the first time. I also think the only reason DJN was cut was because Jamil became available and Buzz didn't see that coming. He made a tough choice and rightfully got criticized by many. Now he knows that when you sign a project you make darn sure they understand that he is viewed as such and that his spot isn't guaranteed. So when a Lockett comes open, or Otule gets hurt and adds another year or something else unexpected happens then you can do what you have to do and everyone understands. Of course, if Durley was putting up big numbers and holding his own against Ridley he would be coming to MU in the fall. Heck, he still may show up at MU in a few years. I wouldn't bet that, but it is possible.
Nice post bigjake. Welcome.
OK...even if I buy the story that the the LOI was "conditional," (and I don't) Buzz needs to stop doing that.
This isn't A&M-Kingsville...this isn't some JUCO in bumf*ck Texas...this is the highest level of college basketball. This simply looks bad. Stop taking fliers on players that are marginal.
Quote from: Ners on April 21, 2012, 09:39:42 AM
Ahh...ever heard of the cliche where there is smoke there is fire Sultan? Its surrounded the Durley recruitment since Day 1. I'd suggest you go get yourself a big sh$tburger to eat..forget about the popcorn..king of the IWB and Mark Miller "retweet."
Oh please...so because one random writer said he was going JUCO and a bunch of posters here didn't think he was ready, there were "clear understandings" this was coming? Funny...if that was the case why did anyone ever think Durley was coming? Why did his family join this message board to vehemently state he would be here in 2012? Why did all if his public comments indicate he was coming?
And if there's smoke there's fire is obviously not the case, otherwise DJO would be facing criminal charges for a beat-down at Apt 720, Todd Mayo would have transferred already, and Buzz would be at SMU, Oklahoma, Oregon, or some other school. Absolutely ludicrous assertion and post. No one outside Buzz and the Durley family knew the nature of the offer, certainly not any of us keyboard jockeys on Scoop.
So now that the scholly is open, when does Lockett give his commitment for next year? Does he wait until ASU exams are over?
Sultan,
OK, i can see that point and understand. I respectfully disagree though. If Buzz decided to wait to extend the LOI and Durley just started kicking the crap out of Ridley and put up huge numbers, then Buzz would be fighting off every big boy program for him. Getting a conditional LOI cuts off that possibility (I suppose Aaron could have asked out of his LOI in that hypothetical, but the chances would be less than him honoring the LOI). If all sides are aware of each possibility and agree, then I don't care how it looks to outsiders. Sometimes when you take projects they turn out to be Mbao, McMorrow or Roseboro. Sometimes they turn out to be Otule, Gardner or McKaskill. I call this smart planning to keep the upside for a while but limit the downside.
Quote from: lab_warrior on April 20, 2012, 08:20:04 PM
Someone who would post that Otule is a "scrub" either has not watched ANY MU basketball (despite the FANATIC 4 LIFE moniker), and/or has no idea what they're talking about. Were Chris healthy, he would have helped us IMMENSELY this year, particularly on the defensive end of the floor.
To quote Ron Burgundy, "why don't you sit this next one out, stop talking for a while."
Otule should have been a senior this year but redshirted once already. He was putting up 5.0 PPG and 4.5 REB in about 18 minutes. Those are not senior numbers for a BE starting center. Been here 4 years been injured 3 times right?
Quote from: MUFanatic4Life on April 21, 2012, 10:18:54 AM
Otule should have been a senior this year but redshirted once already. He was putting up 5.0 PPG and 4.5 REB in about 18 minutes. Those are not senior numbers for a BE starting center. Been here 4 years been injured 3 times right?
I really don't think you watch the games. Otule started this year incredibly. He was a defense force, who did so much for our team. He allowed the guards to attack more on defense, he sealed off the post on drives on offense. His length is exactly what our team needed this year. Yes, he gets injured. But I will take Otule's ppg and 4.5 reb for the next two years. He will be vital to us making any deep NCAA tourney runs.
Quote from: Goose on April 21, 2012, 09:30:12 AM
All that said, Buzz probably needs to narrow his lists on offers. Would say that Buzz is probably perfect guy to sign higher rated recruits late in the cycle and he does not need to sign flyer's early in process. If everything spring Buzz had one or two spots in his back pocket I would bet he would improve team more than taking early projects. Some coaches would have me worried with open spots in April...not Buzz.
Excellent point! Buzz should have more faith in his recruiting abilities by now. He is an ELITE recruiter! He can afford to wait and make a more informed decision. Guys will be knocking on the door. Look at how many guys have been mentioning MU this time of year.
Quote from: ibechillindoe on April 20, 2012, 06:42:35 PM
Does this mean we won't have anymore threads titled "Aaron Durley" every two weeks?
Nope. The first time he has a 4 point 3 rebound game people will be lamenting that he isn't here, and it will continue for the next 35 years.
Quote from: ibechillindoe on April 21, 2012, 10:24:25 AM
I really don't think you watch the games. Otule started this year incredibly. He was a defense force, who did so much for our team. He allowed the guards to attack more on defense, he sealed off the post on drives on offense. His length is exactly what our team needed this year. Yes, he gets injured. But I will take Otule's ppg and 4.5 reb for the next two years. He will be vital to us making any deep NCAA tourney runs.
I watched every single game (except for the Ole Miss game because it wasnt on TV) and Otule was one of the only 2 players I did not love (the other being Cadougan). Yes, if you mix together Otule's numbers (about a 55% FG rate) and Gardner's numbers, then you have a good combo. Otule just seemed to make so many silly and bad turnovers and plays while he played this year. I guess those are the plays I remember most. He is very important, and I agree that we needed him to make a deeper run and increase our ceiling. But we could have better. I know Buzz took him because it was around the time he took the job here and he was in his first recruiting class when Buzz didnt have an edge on recruitng yet. There's just something about the way he plays I just don't like. Buzz needs to start recruiting top centers, and I think Jahlil Okafor is the guy we could get (and Stone the year after that).
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 21, 2012, 09:56:05 AM
Oh please...so because one random writer said he was going JUCO and a bunch of posters here didn't think he was ready, there were "clear understandings" this was coming? Funny...if that was the case why did anyone ever think Durley was coming? Why did his family join this message board to vehemently state he would be here in 2012? Why did all if his public comments indicate he was coming?
And if there's smoke there's fire is obviously not the case, otherwise DJO would be facing criminal charges for a beat-down at Apt 720, Todd Mayo would have transferred already, and Buzz would be at SMU, Oklahoma, Oregon, or some other school. Absolutely ludicrous assertion and post. No one outside Buzz and the Durley family knew the nature of the offer, certainly not any of us keyboard jockeys on Scoop.
Why was Durley's Mom quoted as saying he was going to JUCO (shortly after he signed the LOI)? Think they joined here and elsewhere to squash the JUCO comment - as conditional recruitments are a gray area (that many schools engage in), yet schools don't want to publicize such?
Absolutely ludicrous to think differently Brew....Durley's Mom just didn't come up with the quote he's going to JUCO out of thin air...think about it for a minute.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on April 21, 2012, 09:46:22 AM
Ahh...I figured. Simply biased speculation on your part. Move along now.
I'm sure your sources - IWB and Mark Miller - will tell you the same thing. Wait...I mean IWB and MM will post something to the effect that there was an understanding between MU and Durley's, at which time you will then regal us all with your inside information.
Even if the LOI was conditional - which who the unnatural carnal knowledge honestly knows - I still philosophically don't like them. If thats the way everyone is doing business now (and I mean specifically with conditional LOI agreements) then fine. But I would really like to see that changed. Recruiting is inherently a gamble, and I dont like creating this gray area chasm where either party can simply back out. The signee is gambling that this is where he wants to be/the best he can do, and the signor school is gambling that this is the best use of an available scholarship. To do it this way totally defeats the purpose of the LOI. Why the hell even have signing periods if its just going to be a crapshoot from March - June anyway?
Quote from: Ners on April 21, 2012, 11:07:31 AM
Why was Durley's Mom quoted as saying he was going to JUCO (shortly after he signed the LOI)? Think they joined here and elsewhere to squash the JUCO comment - as conditional recruitments are a gray area (that many schools engage in), yet schools don't want to publicize such?
Absolutely ludicrous to think differently Brew....Durley's Mom just didn't come up with the quote he's going to JUCO out of thin air...think about it for a minute.
She said the original story (the one you are referring to) was completely wrong. Are you calling her a liar?
http://painttouches.com/2011/11/27/despite-rumors-durley-remains-fully-committed-to-marquette/
Amid false report, Durley remains fully committed to Marquette
Posted on November 27, 2011 by Mark Strotman |
Aaron Durley, a 6-foot-11 inch forward from Houston, re-affirmed his commitment to Marquette University, six days after unconfirmed reports surfaced that he would not attend in the fall of 2012.
Jim Hicks of RCS Sports reported last Monday that Durley would attend junior college, falsely claiming that Durley and his parents knew their intentions even before Aaron signed his National Letter of Intent to Marquette on Nov. 9.
"This article is far from true," Durley said in an email. "From the horse's mouth, I assure you that I will be at Marquette University in the fall."
Dana Durley, Aaron's mother, said she was misquoted in the original report and confirmed that her son is fully committed to attending Marquette.
"We couldn't be happier with Marquette," Dana said. "We are completely satisfied with Aaron's decision."
Durley's mother moved from Saudi Arabia to Houston two years ago to help her son along in the process of selecting a school. She said she called Hicks to give an update on Aaron's commitment to Marquette.
"It was how we were happy about Marquette," Dana said. "We said we made our decision because of Marquette's develpoment skills, the great education and we know that Buzz [Williams] and [Tony] Benford really think hard about offering scholarships."
Durley's mother informed the Marquette coaching staff after the original report was published, saying that neither she nor Aaron would do or say anything negative or hurtful toward Marquette.
"I have never wavered on Aaron's decision to attend Marquette," Dana said. "He is fully committed."
(http://www.netnax.net/imgs/misc/box-liar2.gif)
Quote from: MUBurrow on April 21, 2012, 11:11:24 AM
Even if the LOI was conditional - which who the frack honestly knows - I still philosophically don't like them. If thats the way everyone is doing business now (and I mean specifically with conditional LOI agreements) then fine. But I would really like to see that changed. Recruiting is inherently a gamble, and I dont like creating this gray area chasm where either party can simply back out. The signee is gambling that this is where he wants to be/the best he can do, and the signor school is gambling that this is the best use of an available scholarship. To do it this way totally defeats the purpose of the LOI. Why the hell even have signing periods if its just going to be a crapshoot from March - June anyway?
The NCAA does not allow a conditional letter of intent. It is called the Caliprari rule. This has been in place since 2009. I hope what you and others are saying about a conditional letter of intent are not true, because it would mean we are breaking NCAA rules.
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2009-10-01/ncaa-says-no-conditions-allowed-on-letters-intent
NCAA says no conditions allowed on letters of intent
PUBLISHED Thursday, Oct 1, 2009 at 7:28 pm EDT
Mike DeCourcy, Sporting News Sporting News
When basketball star Xavier Henry signed a letter of intent last fall to play for the University of Memphis, his agreement included an addendum stating the university would release him from that obligation if John Calipari were no longer the Tigers coach.
Such deals now out of bounds in college sports.
The National Letter of Intent Policy and Review Committee sent a memo to member schools Thursday announcing that institutions should be aware they are prohibited from establishing any additional conditions associated with the NLI agreement in advance of a prospective student-athlete signing the NLI.
A copy of the memo was provided to Sporting News by a Division I basketball coach.
The memo declares that if any institution or its employees offer additional conditions, the prospective student-athletes NLI is subject to being declared null and void along with possible institutional penalties. Susan Peal of the NLI office said possible punishments range from a letter of admonishment to expulsion from the National Letter of Intent program.
The National Letter of Intent program is a voluntary system run by the Collegiate Commissioners Association out of offices at the NCAA in Indianapolis. It was established so prospects can end the recruiting process by making a formal, signed commitment to a university. Schools benefit by gaining some certainty regarding which athletes will be entering their programs.
The concept of an addendum promising an NLI release had become more popular recently, as releases from the letter became easier to obtain. It escalated last year, with top-10 prospect DeMarcus Cousins refusing to sign at UAB because the school would not agree to release him if coach Mike Davis were to leave, and when Henry and guard Nolan Dennis abandoned their signed letters with Memphis after Calipari departed for Kentucky.
The letter of intent includes clauses mandating eligibility penalties for those athletes who do not spend at least one academic year at the school where they sign, but the past decade has seen more players gain releases when circumstances change such as a coach being fired or taking another job.
The NLI committee's memo said an athlete who wants to be released from a signed letter will need to follow the standard procedures of submitting a request form.
Quote from: Hoopaloop on April 21, 2012, 11:13:31 AM
She said the original story (the one you are referring to) was completely wrong. Are you calling her a liar?
http://painttouches.com/2011/11/27/despite-rumors-durley-remains-fully-committed-to-marquette/
Amid false report, Durley remains fully committed to Marquette
Posted on November 27, 2011 by Mark Strotman |
Aaron Durley, a 6-foot-11 inch forward from Houston, re-affirmed his commitment to Marquette University, six days after unconfirmed reports surfaced that he would not attend in the fall of 2012.
Jim Hicks of RCS Sports reported last Monday that Durley would attend junior college, falsely claiming that Durley and his parents knew their intentions even before Aaron signed his National Letter of Intent to Marquette on Nov. 9.
"This article is far from true," Durley said in an email. "From the horse's mouth, I assure you that I will be at Marquette University in the fall."
Dana Durley, Aaron's mother, said she was misquoted in the original report and confirmed that her son is fully committed to attending Marquette.
"We couldn't be happier with Marquette," Dana said. "We are completely satisfied with Aaron's decision."
Durley's mother moved from Saudi Arabia to Houston two years ago to help her son along in the process of selecting a school. She said she called Hicks to give an update on Aaron's commitment to Marquette.
"It was how we were happy about Marquette," Dana said. "We said we made our decision because of Marquette's develpoment skills, the great education and we know that Buzz [Williams] and [Tony] Benford really think hard about offering scholarships."
Durley's mother informed the Marquette coaching staff after the original report was published, saying that neither she nor Aaron would do or say anything negative or hurtful toward Marquette.
"I have never wavered on Aaron's decision to attend Marquette," Dana said. "He is fully committed."
Can you find an example of another recruitment where such a drama has unfolded...see bolded part...that they would never do or say anything negative or hurtful toward Marquette...which is exactly why they she recanted her statement about Aaron going to JUCO. Had to vehemently deny previous quotes, as to not do so would reflect poorly on MU...
Quote from: Hoopaloop on April 21, 2012, 11:23:15 AM
The NCAA does not allow a conditional letter of intent. It is called the Caliprari rule. This has been in place since 2009. I hope what you and others are saying about a conditional letter of intent are not true, because it would mean we are breaking NCAA rules.
http://aol.sportingnews.com/ncaa-basketball/story/2009-10-01/ncaa-says-no-conditions-allowed-on-letters-intent
NCAA says no conditions allowed on letters of intent
PUBLISHED Thursday, Oct 1, 2009 at 7:28 pm EDT
Mike DeCourcy, Sporting News Sporting News
When basketball star Xavier Henry signed a letter of intent last fall to play for the University of Memphis, his agreement included an addendum stating the university would release him from that obligation if John Calipari were no longer the Tigers coach.
Such deals now out of bounds in college sports.
The National Letter of Intent Policy and Review Committee sent a memo to member schools Thursday announcing that institutions should be aware they are prohibited from establishing any additional conditions associated with the NLI agreement in advance of a prospective student-athlete signing the NLI.
A copy of the memo was provided to Sporting News by a Division I basketball coach.
The memo declares that if any institution or its employees offer additional conditions, the prospective student-athletes NLI is subject to being declared null and void along with possible institutional penalties. Susan Peal of the NLI office said possible punishments range from a letter of admonishment to expulsion from the National Letter of Intent program.
The National Letter of Intent program is a voluntary system run by the Collegiate Commissioners Association out of offices at the NCAA in Indianapolis. It was established so prospects can end the recruiting process by making a formal, signed commitment to a university. Schools benefit by gaining some certainty regarding which athletes will be entering their programs.
The concept of an addendum promising an NLI release had become more popular recently, as releases from the letter became easier to obtain. It escalated last year, with top-10 prospect DeMarcus Cousins refusing to sign at UAB because the school would not agree to release him if coach Mike Davis were to leave, and when Henry and guard Nolan Dennis abandoned their signed letters with Memphis after Calipari departed for Kentucky.
The letter of intent includes clauses mandating eligibility penalties for those athletes who do not spend at least one academic year at the school where they sign, but the past decade has seen more players gain releases when circumstances change such as a coach being fired or taking another job.
The NLI committee's memo said an athlete who wants to be released from a signed letter will need to follow the standard procedures of submitting a request form.
Kind of like hiring son's of AAU coaches to be video coordinators, and giving walk on slots to the sons of AAU Board of Directors...and then shortly thereafter just watching the floodgates open with commits from the same AAU program (that had gone dormant in sending kids to IU for years prior), correct?
Ners, sorry, but when Dana Durley came out and called that writer a liar, asserting Aaron would be here, and especially considering I have never seen an actual quote attributed to her, there's really no leg to stand on. What Hoop produced sums it up. If they felt that article was accurate, why the vehement denial? Because they planned on Aaron being here.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 21, 2012, 11:46:21 AM
Ners, sorry, but when Dana Durley came out and called that writer a liar, asserting Aaron would be here, and especially considering I have never seen an actual quote attributed to her, there's really no leg to stand on. What Hoop produced sums it up. If they felt that article was accurate, why the vehement denial? Because they planned on Aaron being here.
Agree to disagree. The vehement denial from them was due to the very article Hoop produced...conditional recruitments are a gray area...and the Durley's basically spilling the beans could* hurt MU...therefore they put the flames out as quickly and absolutely as possible...
Quote from: Ners on April 21, 2012, 11:31:42 AM
Kind of like hiring son's of AAU coaches to be video coordinators, and giving walk on slots to the sons of AAU Board of Directors...and then shortly thereafter just watching the floodgates open with commits from the same AAU program (that had gone dormant in sending kids to IU for years prior), correct?
Just because you don't like the source doesnt make the point any less valid.
Gotta feel a little bad for the kid, but the right decision was made. Now...Trent Lockett.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on April 20, 2012, 09:11:05 PM
C'mon.... Buzz just needs to stop signing kids like this.
All that needs to be said.
Quote from: MUBurrow on April 21, 2012, 12:36:36 PM
Just because you don't like the source doesnt make the point any less valid.
Agree..it is a dicey game to be playing, yet thus is the way the game gets played in high major hoops and football. Tough waters to navigate...damned if you do, damned if you don't. All coaches straddle that line as closely as possible at this level...it is a dirty, dirty, competitive business...and you have to toe the line of borderline shady/unethical to compete...or don't....and be an NIT program...
I don't know why some of you are making this into a federal case.
If Durley had a great senior year, Buzz certainly would have allowed Durley to change his mind and go to UT or UNC, UCLA or wherever, and everybody here would have understood and wished the kid good luck.
Now the situations are reversed so some of you are in attack mode?
WTF.
Here's a question. Where does Durley end up?
Quote from: nyg on April 21, 2012, 01:45:27 PM
Here's a question. Where does Durley end up?
I'd guess a prep or JUCO. He probably still wants to go to a "name" school and I don't think he'll get the offers he wants. I can't imagine many High-Majors offering him given his HS resume.
Agreed Buzzsaw, I think he just needs some in-game experience. He didn't play much this year and had to play JV one year due to transferring and his injury. I think a prep school would be best just because of not losing a yea of eligibility.
With the type of recruits that were getting now and even projecting into the future. Durley would never had played and would likely had been forced out by his 2nd or 3rd year. Buzz definitely was doing him a favor. I like to consider that MU has standards on who they sign, hopefully Buzz will stop making desperate signings in the future.
Quote from: Rockmic87 on April 21, 2012, 02:22:36 PM
With the type of recruits that were getting now and even projecting into the future. Durley would never had played and would likely had been forced out by his 2nd or 3rd year. Buzz definitely was doing him a favor. I like to consider that MU has standards on who they sign, hopefully Buzz will stop making desperate signings in the future.
How do you figure? What incoming big that we are getting would get time ahead of Durley? He was the ONLY big we had slated for 3 years out, so by default, that post is false. And you can't just project random guys not yet recruited, because otherwise we'd be arguing that CO has no hope of playing because he'll be behind Nerlens Noel and Cam Ridley.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 21, 2012, 03:22:41 PM
How do you figure? What incoming big that we are getting would get time ahead of Durley? He was the ONLY big we had slated for 3 years out, so by default, that post is false. And you can't just project random guys not yet recruited, because otherwise we'd be arguing that CO has no hope of playing because he'll be behind Nerlens Noel and Cam Ridley.
Steve Taylor would get playing time a head of Durley. I don't know of any player ever to not get any paying time in HS and be a contribution at a D-1 school. Most bigs who are considered a project and are coming into a D-1 program are at least making some type of contribution on their HS team, whether defensively (Former Rufus King player Mitchell Carter) or offensively (a Roy Hibbert who was averaging double digit pts.)
Quote from: Rockmic87 on April 21, 2012, 04:36:28 PM
Steve Taylor would get playing time a head of Durley. I don't know of any player ever to not get any paying time in HS and be a contribution at a D-1 school. Most bigs who are considered a project and are coming into a D-1 program are at least making some type of contribution on their HS team, whether defensively (Former Rufus King player Mitchell Carter) or offensively (a Roy Hibbert who was averaging double digit pts.)
Okay...Taylor is a flex 3/4, Durley is an unquestioned 5. Not sure how many DNPs he had, but Durley averaged 7/5 behind a McDonald's All-American. But regardless...what big plays the 5 ahead of him in 2014? No one, because we have no other.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 21, 2012, 04:53:41 PM
Okay...Taylor is a flex 3/4, Durley is an unquestioned 5. Not sure how many DNPs he had, but Durley averaged 7/5 behind a McDonald's All-American. But regardless...what big plays the 5 ahead of him in 2014? No one, because we have no other.
We are in hard on Greatstaff. Word is he has some real beef.
Quote from: warthog-driver on April 20, 2012, 07:16:17 PM
Maurice Lucas, Jim Chones, Larry McNeill, Jerome Whitehead, Dean Marquardt (no kidding, he was highly rated out of HS,) Walter Downing, Lloyd Moore...and almost Sam Bowie
If we had signed Sam Bowie our death spiral might not have ever happened in the 80's
Warthog: Lloyd Moore? Lloyd Moore? I guess you really mean "big men who were perceived when they were recruited as having potential" rather than "talented big men."
Anyway, I appreciate the mention.
Quote from: LloydMooresLegs on April 21, 2012, 06:46:12 PM
Warthog: Lloyd Moore? Lloyd Moore? I guess you really mean "big men who were perceived when they were recruited as having potential" rather than "talented big men."
Anyway, I appreciate the mention.
Legs - As you know, Lloyd Moore was very highly rated in HS. His signing was a very big deal. Unfortunately he ate his way out of being a player.
Attached is an artticle on Durley's team written on February 14th in the Houston Chronicle. Courtney is quoted as saying that Durley has played a key role this season for his team. An interesting comment, when you compare it to the complete flogging Courtney gave Durley last week. Clearly, there is more to this story.
http://www.chron.com/default/article/Boys-basketball-Bush-has-big-playoff-plans-3323275.php
I really, really would like to know why Enlund chose to write a blog entry about Durley...just a week before this announcement. He hasn't written about Taylor or Ferguson right? Why Durley? Too coincidental IMO.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on April 22, 2012, 08:03:18 AM
I really, really would like to know why Enlund chose to write a blog entry about Durley...just a week before this announcement. He hasn't written about Taylor or Ferguson right? Why Durley? Too coincidental IMO.
Because it had been all but assured for months that Durley wouldn't be attending Marquette.
You may likely be right. I can't believe that Enlund figured this out all on his own.
I can understand the decision, but it seems like a really sh1tty way to cut the kid by ripping him a new one in the media.
So wait... Durley's own high school coach is in on it too?
Come on.
Quote from: PTM on April 22, 2012, 10:07:42 AM
So wait... Durley's own high school coach is in on it too?
Come on.
No I don't think so. I think it was "suggested" to Enlund that he interview the coach...pulled a few quotes to sell the story...and the stage was set for what occurred Friday.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on April 22, 2012, 10:32:56 AM
No I don't think so. I think it was "suggested" to Enlund that he interview the coach...pulled a few quotes to sell the story...and the stage was set for what occurred Friday.
Gotcha. That's a little better.
Badgermaniac, Eric The Red and their minions went on an all-out Twitter assualt on the Twitter media types (Bilas, Freeman, Dauster, Seth Davis) to try and get Buzz inbetween their crosshairs.
Hasn't quite worked out for them.
Freeman replied with a 'Don't be a simpleton.'
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 21, 2012, 04:53:41 PM
Okay...Taylor is a flex 3/4, Durley is an unquestioned 5. Not sure how many DNPs he had, but Durley averaged 7/5 behind a McDonald's All-American. But regardless...what big plays the 5 ahead of him in 2014? No one, because we have no other.
I don't know who our 5 starters will be in 2014, but I'd be willing to bet (assuming Buzz is here) that they're all better at basketball than Aaron Durley. Way better.
I'm not going to rule out Durley eventually playing with MU until he signs somewhere else. There's no reason he couldn't go prep and then come here or go JUCO and then come here if he improves.
Quote from: ODMU238 on April 22, 2012, 11:06:03 AM
I'm not going to rule out Durley eventually playing with MU until he signs somewhere else. There's no reason he couldn't go prep and then come here or go JUCO and then come here if he improves.
Has that ever happened? I mean, commit de-commits, spends a year or two in prep/juco and then re-commits? I can't think of a time that's happened, but I'd be interested to hear if it has.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on April 22, 2012, 10:32:56 AM
No I don't think so. I think it was "suggested" to Enlund that he interview the coach...pulled a few quotes to sell the story...and the stage was set for what occurred Friday.
So MU, which has up to this point been criticised for being inept at managing the press has sudden figured out a way to manipulate the Journal which most of you guys claim is out to get us.
Even if this far fetched scenario is true it still comes down to the kid didn't progress much in his senior year and MU is questioning (and rightly so) if he has BE talent and the will to make it.
Unless of course you feel the whole last few months have been a conspiracy where the coach didn't play Durley to screw up his stats make him look bad and then applied the coup de grace in the interview. If you believe that I've got a grassy knoll you should check out.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on April 22, 2012, 11:59:17 AM
So MU, which has up to this point been criticised for being inept at managing the press has sudden figured out a way to manipulate the Journal which most of you guys claim is out to get us.
Even if this far fetched scenario is true it still comes down to the kid didn't progress much in his senior year and MU is questioning (and rightly so) if he has BE talent and the will to make it.
Unless of course you feel the whole last few months have been a conspiracy where the coach didn't play Durley to screw up his stats make him look bad and then applied the coup de grace in the interview. If you believe that I've got a grassy knoll you should check out.
O k, then give your explanation as to why Enlund all of a sudden chose to interview the coach and write an article. He hasn't shown any real interest in writing anything about any other MU recruit. He hasn't really showed much of an interest in writing anything MU related since the season ended. Yet, he wrote this one. Other than your response above, dazzle us with your insight.
Quote from: MUMac on April 22, 2012, 12:03:41 PM
O k, then give your explanation as to why Enlund all of a sudden chose to interview the coach and write an article. He hasn't shown any real interest in writing anything about any other MU recruit. He hasn't really showed much of an interest in writing anything MU related since the season ended. Yet, he wrote this one. Other than your smarmy response above, dazzle us with your insight.
Obviously he reads this board and this is attempt at a peace offering towards us.
Yeah, this was just far too out of the ordinary from everything we've seen out of Enlund to be a coincidence.
FWIW, I think there's a difference between the beat man and the publication generally. Of course the former takes marching orders from the latter, but for someone at the Al to call Enlund isn't like someone calling the editor of the JS or Potrykus or anything like that. No one would have accused the JS of being a pro-MU publication over the past few years, yet I think we all pretty much agree that Rosiak was great.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 22, 2012, 11:00:13 AM
I don't know who our 5 starters will be in 2014, but I'd be willing to bet (assuming Buzz is here) that they're all better at basketball than Aaron Durley. Way better.
Maybe so. Maybe not. Maybe it doesn't matter! We have zero bigs for 2014. Zero. None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Empty set. Even if Durley wasn't going to start, that doesn't mean he couldn't have been a useful contributor off the bench, and I fail to see a downside with having a big, athletic five in the system with time to get experience.
If we land Jahlil Okafor or Cliff Alexander, we won't likely have any problems. Even Philip Nolan or Jameel McKay could help alleviate troubles we might face with no bigs in 2014. But having Durley here getting experience and growing wouldn't have been a bad thing. And having a guy at the end of the bench who doesn't contribute isn't a team-killer. I just like the idea of balancing the classes, and not having any room for additional bigs between now and then means at the very least we will likely end up unbalanced at center. 2 seniors and no one else in 2013-14, no one experienced in the system in 2014-15.
Bottom line, no one has answered the original question of what legitimate big (and not just because a guy is 6'7"-6'8", but actually a post) plays ahead of him in 2014 that we have in the pipeline?
Quote from: MUMac on April 22, 2012, 12:03:41 PM
O k, then give your explanation as to why Enlund all of a sudden chose to interview the coach and write an article. He hasn't shown any real interest in writing anything about any other MU recruit. He hasn't really showed much of an interest in writing anything MU related since the season ended. Yet, he wrote this one. Other than your response above, dazzle us with your insight.
And don't forget, he wrote his article just three days before he was "released." Here is what I said at the time:
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=32240.msg385754#msg385754
You guys all have "Newbillitus" and are building this into some big dark deal because you think it shows a pattern of unethical behavior. The Newbill situation was bad. The kid had a great senior year, his coach said he was getting better and better. Buzz heard about a local kid we had missed on in the past (Wilson) and Newbill (who would also have played the same small forward position) was cut loose. That is bad, I agree.
In this case we take a flyer on a kid with the expectation he will improve and get minutes his second year as a back-up. The kid doesn't improve, his coach says he doesn't improve and the playing landscape at MU changes. NOT because we recruited someone over him but because our player, who we should have more loyalty to, wants a medical redshirt.
I wouldn't lose any sleep at all on this one. If anything MU did the most humane thing they could have done.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on April 22, 2012, 12:24:20 PM
You guys all have "Newbillitus" and are building this into some big dark deal because you think it shows a pattern of unethical behavior. The Newbill situation was bad. The kid had a great senior year, his coach said he was getting better and better. Buzz heard about a local kid we had missed on in the past (Wilson) and Newbill (who would also have played the same small forward position) was cut loose. That is bad, I agree.
In this case we take a flyer on a kid with the expectation he will improve and get minutes his second year as a back-up. The kid doesn't improve, his coach says he doesn't improve and the playing landscape at MU changes. NOT because we recruited someone over him but because our player, who we should have more loyalty to, wants a medical redshirt.
I wouldn't lose any sleep at all on this one. If anything MU did the most humane thing they could have done.
We are talking about two different things....
1. The release from the NLI...which IMO is unethical regardless of...
2. Enlund's article and whether or not it was "suggested" by someone with connections to mubb.
So I have already fallen into the unethical camp regardless if I am right about Enlund.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on April 22, 2012, 12:30:56 PM
So I have already fallen into the unethical camp regardless if I am right about Enlund.
+1.
Unless Durley or Courtney come out and say, "Durley didn't belong in the BE and both parties agreed to take different roads" this is a sleazy situation.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on April 22, 2012, 12:30:56 PM
So I have already fallen into the unethical camp regardless if I am right about Enlund.
Admitting your fall is the first step towards redemption.
Quote from: PTM on April 22, 2012, 12:54:01 PM
+1.
Unless Durley or Courtney come out and say, "Durley didn't belong in the BE and both parties agreed to take different roads" this is a sleazy situation.
Courtney has already said as much and demonstrated (by never playing him) that in his view Durley doesn't belong in the Big East. Don't know how Durley or his Mom feel about his game - but I don't think it's particularly relevant.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 22, 2012, 01:06:25 PM
Courtney has already said as much and demonstrated (by never playing him) that in his view Durley doesn't belong in the Big East. Don't know how Durley or his Mom feel about his game - but I don't think it's particularly relevant.
That doesn't mean that Durley wasn't planning on being here or wanted to be here.
Courtney can say as much as he wants, someone needs to say both parties agreed...until then... sleazy.
Quote from: PTM on April 22, 2012, 01:22:48 PM
That doesn't mean that Durley wasn't planning on being here or wanted to be here.
Courtney can say as much as he wants, someone needs to say both parties agreed...until then... sleazy.
Both parties agreed. I have no source nor inside knowledge, I just wanted PTM to feel better about things.
Quote from: Bocephys on April 22, 2012, 01:25:20 PM
Both parties agreed. I have no source nor inside knowledge, I just wanted PTM to feel better about things.
Makes me feel a bit better, thank you.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 22, 2012, 01:06:25 PM
Courtney has already said as much and demonstrated (by never playing him) that in his view Durley doesn't belong in the Big East. Don't know how Durley or his Mom feel about his game - but I don't think it's particularly relevant.
?? I didn't know that Courtney signed a LOI.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on April 22, 2012, 12:24:20 PM
You guys all have "Newbillitus" and are building this into some big dark deal because you think it shows a pattern of unethical behavior. The Newbill situation was bad. The kid had a great senior year, his coach said he was getting better and better. Buzz heard about a local kid we had missed on in the past (Wilson) and Newbill (who would also have played the same small forward position) was cut loose. That is bad, I agree.
In this case we take a flyer on a kid with the expectation he will improve and get minutes his second year as a back-up. The kid doesn't improve, his coach says he doesn't improve and the playing landscape at MU changes. NOT because we recruited someone over him but because our player, who we should have more loyalty to, wants a medical redshirt.
I wouldn't lose any sleep at all on this one. If anything MU did the most humane thing they could have done.
Yeah, I didn't think you would have anything. All you did was sarcastically attack Sultan in your previous thread. When asked for the explanation, you have none. You would have been better ignoring it all together, quite honestly.
Quote from: MUBurrow on April 22, 2012, 01:49:39 PM
?? I didn't know that Courtney signed a LOI.
I was respoding to PTM. Talk to him if you think Courtney's opinion is irrelevant.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 22, 2012, 02:47:02 PM
I was respoding to PTM. Talk to him if you think Courtney's opinion is irrelevant.
ohhh I see. the whole situation's got me all antsy in my pantsies. my b.
FWIW, I don't necessarily think its irrelevant prior to committing, but I think upon the LOI being signed, Courtney gave Durley away at the altar. Once Durley was married to Buzz, I'm not so sure Courtney's input is really worth much any more. Its kind of like I said when Endlund's interview first came out though - I think everything Courtney says from that interview onward is about maintaining his relationship with Buzz and Durley is just collateral damage.
I disagree, Sultan. The Newbill situation felt far more 'squirmy' to me than this one. This one feels like a kid failed to progress and, with Otule probably receiving a 6th year of eligibility, realized he was not going to see the floor for another 3 years. I have no problem seeing this as being mutual.
Quote from: tower912 on April 22, 2012, 03:17:24 PM
I have no problem seeing this as being mutual.
Not sure it was mutual but it is certainly merciful. If Durley wants to play ball it won't happen at MU for several years. Hopefully, Buzz is working the circuit to help the kid get something more appropriate for his skill set.
I'm trying to look at it from Durley's perspective. I haven't played a lot of competitive minutes in two years. It is unlikely I am going to see the floor until my third year at MU. 4 straight years of recovery and sitting the bench. Stupid Otule. Buzz and company came to me and told me that I wasn't going to play for until my third year and maybe I would be better off going somewhere else. Which leads to the ....this hurts.....etc. tweet.
I keep looking, but I just am not seeing a conspiracy here. Unless you are of the opinion that this is Buzz's final go around at MU and he wants to win now and not build for the future.
Quote from: tower912 on April 22, 2012, 03:29:30 PM
I'm trying to look at it from Durley's perspective. I haven't played a lot of competitive minutes in two years. It is unlikely I am going to see the floor until my third year at MU. 4 straight years of recovery and sitting the bench. Stupid Otule. Buzz and company came to me and told me that I wasn't going to play for until my third year and maybe I would be better off going somewhere else. Which leads to the ....this hurts.....etc. tweet.
I keep looking, but I just am not seeing a conspiracy here. Unless you are of the opinion that this is Buzz's final go around at MU and he wants to win now and not build for the future.
We're together, Tower. I think the bottom line is that the kid not only did not progress but slid backwards. Buzz was honest and the future at MU was worse than bleak. We have no way of knowing what transpirted but MU cannot unilaterally pull the LOI; the kid/family have to agree.
Yawn. The guy wasn't a Big East caliber player. It's best for both sides to move on.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on April 22, 2012, 03:56:12 PM
Yawn. The guy wasn't a Big East caliber player. It's best for both sides to move on.
Agree. But our neighbors to the west just can't seem to let go
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=193&f=2565&t=8924456
Quote from: warthog-driver on April 22, 2012, 04:04:30 PM
Agree. But our neighbors to the west just can't seem to let go
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=193&f=2565&t=8924456
But what does The Mouthpiece have to say about this?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 22, 2012, 02:47:02 PM
I was respoding to PTM. Talk to him if you think Courtney's opinion is irrelevant.
Why would it be irrelevant? In your opinion, Durley and his family's opinion is irrelevant as well.
In Lenny's world...
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on April 22, 2012, 10:32:56 AM
No I don't think so. I think it was "suggested" to Enlund that he interview the coach...pulled a few quotes to sell the story...and the stage was set for what occurred Friday.
That's what I said as well the other day. Prepping the masses for the fact he isn't coming here by having him write that article and using various language to say he isn't up to par.
Who had to be prepped for that? The cat never played as a senior in high school.
If you couldn't see that coming, may God have mercy on your soul.
Amen. Enough said.
Quote from: warthog-driver on April 22, 2012, 04:04:30 PM
Agree. But our neighbors to the west just can't seem to let go
http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=193&f=2565&t=8924456
Who cares what Badger fans think? They're going to find something to rip MU for no matter what.
The other factor to this potentially... Benford got done interviewing at North Texas late last week, and is the favorite for that job. That could be a landing spot for Aaron.
Quote from: MUBurrow on April 22, 2012, 03:10:46 PM
ohhh I see. the whole situation's got me all antsy in my pantsies. my b.
FWIW, I don't necessarily think its irrelevant prior to committing, but I think upon the LOI being signed, Courtney gave Durley away at the altar. Once Durley was married to Buzz, I'm not so sure Courtney's input is really worth much any more. Its kind of like I said when Endlund's interview first came out though - I think everything Courtney says from that interview onward is about maintaining his relationship with Buzz and Durley is just collateral damage.
Point well taken. Not a bad analogy.
Quote from: MUfan12 on April 22, 2012, 09:33:42 PM
The other factor to this potentially... Benford got done interviewing at North Texas late last week, and is the favorite for that job. That could be a landing spot for Aaron.
Reportedly was at UNT's spring football game, as well. Really like to see him get that gig, and if he brings Aaron along, I admit it would go a long way to easing my feeling about how this was handled.
Quote from: MUfan12 on April 22, 2012, 09:33:42 PM
The other factor to this potentially... Benford got done interviewing at North Texas late last week, and is the favorite for that job. That could be a landing spot for Aaron.
It'd be nice for Buzz to start building out his coaching tree, though losing Benford would hurt.
Is Benford strong enough and ready to be Bizz's replacement?
New president and new AD at Marquette. May want to go a different direction if Buzz leaves.
Quote from: TedBaxter on April 23, 2012, 07:30:23 AM
New president and new AD at Marquette. May want to go a different direction if Buzz leaves.
That's the scary part. "New direction" when you're currently experiencing on the court success usually leads to a mediocre hire.
Quote from: Stone Cold on April 22, 2012, 08:08:30 PM
Who had to be prepped for that? The cat never played as a senior in high school.
If you couldn't see that coming, may God have mercy on your soul.
Mercy should be granted to a number of souls here. Look at the Durley signing thread and the various threads since. There are those of us that were always wondering why and another group that said he would be here and contribute at MU.
Quote from: TedBaxter on April 23, 2012, 07:30:23 AM
New president and new AD at Marquette. May want to go a different direction if Buzz leaves.
Also, if the administration would want to push Buzz out, would Benford want to take over? Maybe the prestige of the MU job and money would be too tempting to turn down, but I'd wonder if Benford would see the same issues as head coach that Buzz is not pleased with.
Having a kid sign a NLI means you are giving the kid your word that there is definitely a scholarship waiting for him unless he fails to qualify academically or something. It also means that the kid is giving you his word that he will accept that scholarship. So, other than mutual agreement (and mutual agreement does not mean "I found somebody else that I'd rather have, so please gracefully back out" or "a better school wants me now, so please let me go") I don't like the idea of going back on your word. Your word is what defines you as a person.
Now, if I was Durley I would have originally figured, "Well, I probably won't play much as a freshman but I figure to get 10-12 mpg my sophomore year backing up Gardner." If, after it became clear Otule was going to get a 6th year, I may have said to myself "As it stands, I'm not going to play until I'm a junior, and even then there's no guarantee." If he and Buzz had a conversation and Durley decided based on the change of circumstance he wanted to go somewhere else and Buzz was good with that, then this is fine. Of course I don't know which way it went, but based on that Durley tweet referenced in this thread I get the feeling that it was not a mutual decision, which makes me uncomfortable. Hopefully Durley lands at a place that will make him happy.
Quote from: CTWarrior on April 23, 2012, 04:28:55 PM
Having a kid sign a NLI means you are giving the kid your word that there is definitely a scholarship waiting for him unless he fails to qualify academically or something. It also means that the kid is giving you his word that he will accept that scholarship. So, other than mutual agreement (and mutual agreement does not mean "I found somebody else that I'd rather have, so please gracefully back out" or "a better school wants me now, so please let me go") I don't like the idea of going back on your word. Your word is what defines you as a person.
Now, if I was Durley I would have originally figured, "Well, I probably won't play much as a freshman but I figure to get 10-12 mpg my sophomore year backing up Gardner." If, after it became clear Otule was going to get a 6th year, I may have said to myself "As it stands, I'm not going to play until I'm a junior, and even then there's no guarantee." If he and Buzz had a conversation and Durley decided based on the change of circumstance he wanted to go somewhere else and Buzz was good with that, then this is fine. Of course I don't know which way it went, but based on that Durley tweet referenced in this thread I get the feeling that it was not a mutual decision, which makes me uncomfortable. Hopefully Durley lands at a place that will make him happy.
Honestly, I don't get it. Why would it ever be anything than your second paragraph? The writing was on the wall in plain English. He was probably lead to the writing by Buzz, but he had to make the decision himself. If Durley really was stubborn about it, Marquette would have had to honor the NLI that he signed.
You guys may feel squirmy about it, but in the end, it was Durley's decision whether or not he would be at Marquette this summer/fall.
Someone in an earlier post said that Durley had to request his release....it needed to be mutual. Is that correct?
If that is the case, Enlund's choice to exclude that in his article would be most interesting.
Quote from: real chili 83 on April 24, 2012, 07:16:34 AM
Someone in an earlier post said that Durley had to request his release....it needed to be mutual. Is that correct?
If that is the case, Enlund's choice to exclude that in his article would be most interesting.
Once a LOI is signed, the school is obligated to give the scholarship, so there had to be some mutual consent. Marquette couldn't simply pull the scholarship, but I have a feeling Durley wanted to be at Marquette, but was convinced that it wasn't the best thing for him.
Personally, I think this just doesn't look very good, and I'm sure that while Durley agreed to the decision, it still wasn't what he wanted. It looks a lot better to hold off on offering a guy until you're sure, especially with a project player. With Buzz's track record in Spring, I'd rather he try to leave at least one scholarship open every year, and if you get to Spring and haven't filled it, then offer it to the big project kid.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 24, 2012, 06:55:50 AM
Honestly, I don't get it. Why would it ever be anything than your second paragraph?
I think Durley still wanted to come because of this tweet referenced earlier in the thread.
Aaron Durley@ADurley24
It's hurts... I'm not gonna lie... But it's just Fuel to My Fire thats gonna drive me to become the best I can be.. #Back2TheLab #TheLead'
That doesn't sound like someone who wanted out. Of course I may be misinterpreting it which is why I said "I get the feeling..." in my original post.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on April 24, 2012, 06:55:50 AM
You guys may feel squirmy about it, but in the end, it was Durley's decision whether or not he would be at Marquette this summer/fall.
Well, my guess is the coaching staff convinced him he didn't want to come, which is pretty easy to do.
"Durley, you aren't going to play as a frosh., and scholarships are year to year. You probably won't be back as a soph."
At that point, Durley would want out of his NLI.
Now, in the above scenario, the coaching staff is just being bluntly honest, which I can appreciate. However, I still feel bad for the kid, and I wish it didn't have to go down like this.
This is probably how big time hoops has to work now, but I wish it didn't have to. Maybe I'm just naive.
The school always retains the power: the scholarships are only for a year, they control the playing time, and the kid is the one who has to sit out for a year when he transfers. Its hard to imagine the decision was "mutual"
Quote from: 2002MUalum on April 24, 2012, 07:54:04 AM
Well, my guess is the coaching staff convinced him he didn't want to come, which is pretty easy to do.
"Durley, you aren't going to play as a frosh., and scholarships are year to year. You probably won't be back as a soph."
At that point, Durley would want out of his NLI.
Now, in the above scenario, the coaching staff is just being bluntly honest, which I can appreciate. However, I still feel bad for the kid, and I wish it didn't have to go down like this.
This is probably how big time hoops has to work now, but I wish it didn't have to. Maybe I'm just naive.
Or maybe the conversation went like this: "Aaron, you've got qualities, size and athletic ability, that only God can give. Coach Courtney and I believed last November that with a year of hard work you would be ready to be an asset to Marquette University. Maybe we were wrong, or maybe you didn't work hard enough. That's a question only you can answer. The bottom line is that progress wasn't made and right now you're not ready, and given that you're probably better off somewhere you can play and improve your game."
Like you, I wish things like this never had to happen. I don't know whether Buzz and Courtney were just wrong on this kid or if he's not motivated. But in either case, would his coming to MU for a year be in his or Marquette's best interests? I'd say no, and with time and perspective I think Aaron will also.
Quote from: brewcity77 on April 24, 2012, 07:37:12 AM
Once a LOI is signed, the school is obligated to give the scholarship, so there had to be some mutual consent. Marquette couldn't simply pull the scholarship, but I have a feeling Durley wanted to be at Marquette, but was convinced that it wasn't the best thing for him.
Personally, I think this just doesn't look very good, and I'm sure that while Durley agreed to the decision, it still wasn't what he wanted. It looks a lot better to hold off on offering a guy until you're sure, especially with a project player. With Buzz's track record in Spring, I'd rather he try to leave at least one scholarship open every year, and if you get to Spring and haven't filled it, then offer it to the big project kid.
Agree 100 percent with this.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on April 24, 2012, 09:12:36 AM
Or maybe the conversation went like this: "Aaron, you've got qualities, size and athletic ability, that only God can give. Coach Courtney and I believed last November that with a year of hard work you would be ready to be an asset to Marquette University. Maybe we were wrong, or maybe you didn't work hard enough. That's a question only you can answer. The bottom line is that progress wasn't made and right now you're not ready, and given that you're probably better off somewhere you can play and improve your game."
Like you, I wish things like this never had to happen. I don't know whether Buzz and Courtney were just wrong on this kid or if he's not motivated. But in either case, would his coming to MU for a year be in his or Marquette's best interests? I'd say no, and with time and perspective I think Aaron will also.
I agree, and you can frame it however you want. I'm sure they were more gentle than my quotes.
My point is, at the end of the day, MU has the hammer because no matter what Durley wants to do this year, MU can indicate that he won't be invited back as a soph., and that really makes his decision for him.
Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on April 24, 2012, 08:21:52 AM
The school always retains the power: the scholarships are only for a year, they control the playing time, and the kid is the one who has to sit out for a year when he transfers. Its hard to imagine the decision was "mutual"
Coaches have all the power at successful athletic schools. They can leave whenever they want, regardless of the terms of their contracts. They can toy with the athletes, saying "it's all about the kids" when clearly it isn't. They can play loose and fast with NCAA rules and (in all but a few cases in history) get away without any significant personal repercussions. And in the rare situations in which an AD/president/school "forces" a coach to leave, that coach leaves with plenty of money in his pocket and usually a new (often better) job waiting.
So while none of us are privy to exactly how "mutual" this Durley decision was ...
Given the facts we do know and the tone of the kid's tweet, I stand by my opinion that this whole thing reflects very poorly on Buzz, a coach I like very much.
Let's say that after his junior year, a Marquette student with respectable grades and decent internship gets a very good job lined up for after he graduates. During his senior year, however, his grades slip significantly and he gets a very poor performance review at his internship.
If you're the hiring manager who offered him the position but you're now pretty sure it was a mistake and that his hiring will hinder your department's production, do you bring him aboard anyway or do you pull the offer?
I know what I'd do.
FWIW, I didn't see this linked here...from IWB
Quote
Just into the weekend it came out the Marquette had honored 6'10 C Aaron Durley of Ft. Bend Bush High School in Texas' request to be released from his letter of intent. Those on the attack claimed that MU ran him off, but from what I have been able to gather, Marquette strongly recommended that he attend a prep school for a year to further help his development. You see, Durley missed the majority of his junior year with an injury, and his senior year he spent a lot of time on the bench behind All-American Cameron Ridley. Well, Durley didn't like that idea and opted out of his release. He seems like a good kid, hopefully he finds what he is looking for.
http://www.brewcityball.com/forums/content.php?318
Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on April 24, 2012, 08:21:52 AM
The school always retains the power: the scholarships are only for a year, they control the playing time, and the kid is the one who has to sit out for a year when he transfers. Its hard to imagine the decision was "mutual"
Scholarships are one year at a time, but no school worth their salt would take a scholarship away from a kid who is doing all that is asked of him because he turns out not to be a good player. I think kids leave all the time because they want to play and think their chances for playing may be better elsewhere. I guess it's semantics, but you shouldn't throw a human being away because you made a mistake recruiting him.
Quote from: MU82 on April 24, 2012, 09:30:53 AM
Coaches have all the power at successful athletic schools. They can leave whenever they want, regardless of the terms of their contracts. They can toy with the athletes, saying "it's all about the kids" when clearly it isn't. They can play loose and fast with NCAA rules and (in all but a few cases in history) get away without any significant personal repercussions. And in the rare situations in which an AD/president/school "forces" a coach to leave, that coach leaves with plenty of money in his pocket and usually a new (often better) job waiting.
So while none of us are privy to exactly how "mutual" this Durley decision was ...
Given the facts we do know and the tone of the kid's tweet, I stand by my opinion that this whole thing reflects very poorly on Buzz, a coach I like very much.
"The successful athletic schools," you mention are successful because of their Head Coaches..so without the coach...the school by virtue of name alone is not successful....thus why coaches are paid the big $$$$$. Elite coaches, CEO's, etc., generally always have the power, because of the results they are able to achieve. As soon as the results aren't to the liking of a fanbase, administrator, Wall Sreet - guess what - the CEO/Coach is fired...so...the school/Wall Street also have power too.
It is a little pollyana/self righteous to want to think MU and Buzz shouldn't operate as a business...as big time college athletics is exactly that - a business. We can kid ourselves and hope NCAA basketball and football are "pure" worlds, but that is totally naive. Kids can transfer - Taylor, Maymon, Smith, Williams, etc. IF there is any tragedy in all of this, it is that Division 1 basketball and football players don't get paid a dime for their efforts at schools...and no...a scholarship isn't an argument for them getting paid....schools hump the legs of these kids to try to get them to attend...they are blue chip commodities...
Quote from: CTWarrior on April 24, 2012, 10:01:31 AM
Scholarships are one year at a time, but no school worth their salt would take a scholarship away from a kid who is doing all that is asked of him because he turns out not to be a good player. I think kids leave all the time because they want to play and think their chances for playing may be better elsewhere. I guess it's semantics, but you shouldn't throw a human being away because you made a mistake recruiting him.
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Oh wait, are you being serious?
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on April 24, 2012, 10:10:33 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
Oh wait, are you being serious?
+1. Reality check.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on April 24, 2012, 09:45:19 AM
FWIW, I didn't see this linked here...from IWB
http://www.brewcityball.com/forums/content.php?318
Crazy. Not run off, recommended to attend prep school for a year because he hadn't progressed. He didn't want to do that and come in with a '13 scholarship. MU said we want you to develop for a year and he wanted to play in college right away. I continue to not see the conspiracy here.
Quote from: 2002MUalum on April 24, 2012, 09:28:37 AM
I agree, and you can frame it however you want. I'm sure they were more gentle than my quotes.
My point is, at the end of the day, MU has the hammer because no matter what Durley wants to do this year, MU can indicate that he won't be invited back as a soph., and that really makes his decision for him.
I'd agree that the deck is stacked in the school's favor and since the coach controls playing time it always will. That's what most transfers are about, after all.
Quote from: tower912 on April 24, 2012, 10:21:36 AM
Crazy. Not run off, recommended to attend prep school for a year because he hadn't progressed. He didn't want to do that and come in with a '13 scholarship. MU said we want you to develop for a year and he wanted to play in college right away. I continue to not see the conspiracy here.
Well, IWB didn't say that we would offer him a '13 scholarship.
You are correct, Sultan. I extrapolated that from IWB saying that MU wanted Durley to go the prep route. I inferred that meant they were still interested in him after a year of prep school. That is not explicitly stated.
I know this one rubs you the wrong way, but I'm just not feeling it.
Quote from: tower912 on April 24, 2012, 10:56:38 AM
You are correct, Sultan. I extrapolated that from IWB saying that MU wanted Durley to go the prep route. I inferred that meant they were still interested in him after a year of prep school. That is not explicitly stated.
I know this one rubs you the wrong way, but I'm just not feeling it.
IF Buzz wanted him to go prep AND said something like "look, if you work hard down there, the offer still stands for 2013," then I wouldn't have a problem with it.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on April 24, 2012, 10:59:27 AM
IF Buzz wanted him to go prep AND said something like "look, if you work hard down there, the offer still stands for 2013," then I wouldn't have a problem with it.
I assumed that, though it was not explicity stated.
Quote from: tower912 on April 24, 2012, 10:21:36 AM
Crazy. Not run off, recommended to attend prep school for a year because he hadn't progressed. He didn't want to do that and come in with a '13 scholarship. MU said we want you to develop for a year and he wanted to play in college right away. I continue to not see the conspiracy here.
I feel a little better seeing that, but when he signed the LOI, there was a mutual agreement that he would be coming here on a 2012 scholarship. As it seems Durley's first desire was to come to Marquette, I'd still rather see us either honor those commitments or not make the offer in the first place. If the options were (1) prep school, (2) come in 2012 and at best get significant PT in 2014-15, or (3) give up the scholarship and he picked option 3, I guess it is what it is. Still doesn't change that it all could have been avoided by simply waiting to commit to a LOI until Spring.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on April 24, 2012, 10:59:27 AM
IF Buzz wanted him to go prep AND said something like "look, if you work hard down there, the offer still stands for 2013," then I wouldn't have a problem with it.
I would...because as it stands today, there is no scholarship available in 2013 for him if Otule stays. Why put the kid through the wash cycle
twice? That is a hollow promise and one that is very empty for the kid.
In this case, both sides of this argument are right. The objective side (MU should honor all commitments no matter what happens...even though the NCAA allows a school to oversign on a LOI contract). And the subjective side (why waste a year of the kid's life at the wrong school? He may have to red shirt next year, and even then he most likely won't crack it at the high major level, and then the kid is screwed out of another year of playing when he transfers). In this case, I side with the subjective side as it gives the kid the best options in the end. I also don't believe in coincidences and believe this option was always in this discussion...of which none of us will know.
Roseboro: I had no problem with as the kid didn't cut it and wanted out. This saved the kid a year and he quickly went to a school who wanted him originally.
Newbill; I blame MU as I don't think the coach communication was very good. That said, they kid never applied to MU, and that implies there was more to the story, whether true or not. I just don't think it was handled very well all the way around by MU, including admissions and compliance.
Quote from: Dr. Blackheart on April 24, 2012, 11:29:13 AM
I would...because as it stands today, there is no scholarship available in 2013 for him if Otule stays. Why put the kid through the wash cycle twice? That is a hollow promise and one that is very empty for the kid.
In this case, both sides of this argument are right. The objective side (MU should honor all commitments no matter what happens...even though the NCAA allows a school to oversign on a LOI contract). And the subjective side (why waste a year of the kid's life at the wrong school? He may have to red shirt next year, and even then he most likely won't crack it at the high major level, and then the kid is screwed out of another year of playing when he transfers). In this case, I side with the subjective side as it gives the kid the best options in the end. I also don't believe in coincidences and believe this option was always in this discussion...of which none of us will know.
Roseboro: I had no problem with as the kid didn't cut it and wanted out. This saved the kid a year and he quickly went to a school who wanted him originally.
Newbill; I blame MU as I don't think the coach communication was very good. That said, they kid never applied to MU, and that implies there was more to the story, whether true or not. I just don't think it was handled very well all the way around by MU, including admissions and compliance.
Correct on all counts as usual Doc.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on April 24, 2012, 10:59:27 AM
IF Buzz wanted him to go prep AND said something like "look, if you work hard down there, the offer still stands for 2013," then I wouldn't have a problem with it.
Given the kinds of players Marquette is in on for '13, I doubt that was the case.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on April 24, 2012, 09:38:39 AM
Let's say that after his junior year, a Marquette student with respectable grades and decent internship gets a very good job lined up for after he graduates. During his senior year, however, his grades slip significantly and he gets a very poor performance review at his internship.
If you're the hiring manager who offered him the position but you're now pretty sure it was a mistake and that his hiring will hinder your department's production, do you bring him aboard anyway or do you pull the offer?
I know what I'd do.
The difference is this isn't at will employment. The player is signing a contract with his NLI that binds him to the school and forces him to sit out for a year if he decides to leave. Regular junior undergrads don't do that, they are free to walk whenever and wherever they want. If you want to play the whole free market game, you shouldn't be locking down the kids while retaining effective free rein yourself.