MUScoop
MUScoop => Hangin' at the Al => Topic started by: NersEllenson on February 14, 2011, 11:00:07 AM
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I'll probably get banned again, and don't really care. There are about 10-15 posters here who are a disgrace to the MU community - assuming they are actually TRUE MU fans, and not posers, trolls or others with a self serving agenda.
Buzz and staff deserve MUCH better than what some of this MU Scoop community offer - and for that reason, I hope he takes his act elsewhere and we'll then see what becomes of MU. MU is NOT a destination coaching job, and Marquette is NOT an ideal place to recruit to. If it were, Tom Crean and Kevin O'Neill would have stayed at MU. Then again, maybe they wouldn't have - and they simply left because of growing tired of dealing with an idiotic fan base that has an over-inflated view of its stature on the college basketball landscape.
95% of schools would be estatic with a coach like Buzz. Young. Can recruit. Good rep of university. Kids grow as people and players, and don't get into off court trouble. Has his teams competitve every game. Take away our joke of a non-conference schedule, and MU has by far and away played its toughest schedule EVER - and most of the top teams have been on the road. We have 3 wins over Top 25 teams, no bad losses, and still have a great chance to make the NCAA.
Yet we have so many disgruntled fans questioning Buzz and alluding to calling for his head. An absolute disgrace.
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I don't.
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Sorry your standards are so low. MU can be a destination job but we need people who believe we can get there and hold people we pay well(among the best, if they earn it) accountable.
I'm not calling for Buzz's head but the trend of poor defense with little improvement throughout the year gives me pause about his future.
If you can't handle higher expectations maybe you should go cheer for a Horizon league team or MAC team.
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I'll probably get banned again, and don't really care. There are about 10-15 posters here who are a disgrace to the MU community - assuming they are actually TRUE MU fans, and not posers, trolls or others with a self serving agenda.
Buzz and staff deserve MUCH better than what some of this MU Scoop community offer - and for that reason, I hope he takes his act elsewhere and we'll then see what becomes of MU. MU is NOT a destination coaching job, and Marquette is NOT an ideal place to recruit to. If it were, Tom Crean and Kevin O'Neill would have stayed at MU. Then again, maybe they wouldn't have - and they simply left because of growing tired of dealing with an idiotic fan base that has an over-inflated view of its stature on the college basketball landscape.
95% of schools would be estatic with a coach like Buzz. Young. Can recruit. Good rep of university. Kids grow as people and players, and don't get into off court trouble. Has his teams competitve every game. Take away our joke of a non-conference schedule, and MU has by far and away played its toughest schedule EVER - and most of the top teams have been on the road. We have 3 wins over Top 25 teams, no bad losses, and still have a great chance to make the NCAA.
Yet we have so many disgruntled fans questioning Buzz and alluding to calling for his head. An absolute disgrace.
Well three of those 10 are posters are the same person, warriors1965, nomorebuycks, and warriors65. And don't let the fringe minority dictate policy [redacted political bomb to try to steer this thread off course ;D ].
99% of MU fans want Buzz and are more or less pleased with the job he is doing.
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Great...we have had a dearth of negative thread titles this week. It's been too long since we attacked our coach and players. Thanks, Ners.
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It's a discussion board. That's what it is for. If you want to start your little fanboy board with unicorns and balloons, go right ahead.
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Sorry your standards are so low. MU can be a destination job but we need people who believe we can get there and hold people we pay well(among the best, if they earn it) accountable.
I'm not calling for Buzz's head but the trend of poor defense with little improvement throughout the year gives me pause about his future.
If you can't handle higher expectations maybe you should go cheer for a Horizon league team or MAC team.
I'm all for having high standards - but not having unrealistic, inflated standards - such as expecting a coach just in his 3rd year at MU to guide us to a Big East title or Top 3 or 4 finish. Part of our defense not being "good" has a little bit to do with the caliber of competition we've played since Vanderbilt. We've played 12 Top 25 Pomroy teams. They are top 25 for a reason, because they are darn good - and most of these have been on the road.
Lastly, if Buzz leaves - who is going to take the MU job?? We got shot down by all the other up and coming coaches - Tony Bennett (how is he doing at Virginia?), Sean Miller (how's he doing at Arizona?), Anthony Grant (whow's he doing at Alabama?), Keno Davis (How's he doing at Providence?). How are wonder boys Darin Horn and Brad Stevens doing at South Carolina and Butler this year? Does Calipari suck as a coach because his Kentucky team just got beat at Vanderbilt, like MU did?
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It's a discussion board. That's what it is for. If you want to start your little fanboy board with unicorns and balloons, go right ahead.
Not surprised to see you chime in with this caliber of content. How about offering some solutions as to who MU should get as a coach - considering you find Buzz Williams to be: "Exceedingly Average?" And just an FYI, if you were curious, I'd categorize you as 1 of the 10-15 "fans" I spoke of in my original post.
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You should of posted.
I hope Buzz stays, but I would not blame him for leaving, because of ......
MU is doing better in the Big East than the preseason predictions. It is obvious that MU is compettive based on coaching an effort. MU is short on talent. Buzz is doing a good job coaching, but needs to recruit better. I for one hope Buzz stays a very long time.
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I don't know the numbers but the small, small, small percentage that question buzz on here don't compare to the vast majority that love what he does with the program and will continue to do.
Buzz is turning heads around the country, he is blazing the recruiting trail and continues on the traditions of marquette basketball.
Don't be soured by what you read from 3 posters on a message board.
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I'm all for having high standards - but not having unrealistic, inflated standards - such as expecting a coach just in his 3rd year at MU to guide us to a Big East title or Top 3 or 4 finish. Part of our defense not being "good" has a little bit to do with the caliber of competition we've played since Vanderbilt. We've played 12 Top 25 Pomroy teams. They are top 25 for a reason, because they are darn good - and most of these have been on the road.
No sorry. If you include only conference games, here are MU's defensive ratings:
EFG%: 15th
Turnover%: 4th
OffensiveReb%: 4th
3pt%: 10th
2pt%: 15th
Overall defensive efficiency: 13th
This is a bad defensive team. Period. Outside of the fact that we cause turnovers, this team doesn't do things well on that side of the court.
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If you can't handle higher expectations maybe you should go cheer for a Horizon league team or MAC team.
There's a stark difference between higher expectations and realistic expectations.
Save all the b.s. that "you expect to win championships!!" Let's be friggin' real here. MU is in the Big East. We haven't been in it that long, and we certainly don't have the national pedigree/perception that traditional hoops powerhouse programs like Syracuse, Georgetown, UConn and Louisville. That's just a fact. MU is well known by hoops followers, but it's nowhere near those other schools. The ONLY way MU gets to that point is if we ran off several final four/elite eight/conference titles over a span of several years and I think that's an unfair burden to put on the team/coach.
At some point, we are who we are. I'm just as guilty of having unreal expectations on this team at times. But if you step back and look at MU and all that it has going for it and has to offer, realistic expectations - to me - would be to consistently be in the top half of the conference and maybe two out of five years, have a team that's capable of winning the big east or at least placing in the top four. To expect us to be top five in the big east every year and when we aren't call for the coach's head or 'soul searching' by the school? That's reactionary b.s. and typical sports fandom in 2011.
I will now get off my soap box.
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99% of MU fans want Buzz and are more or less pleased with the job he is doing.
I think, and certainly hope that's the case too. Marquette, despite recent success, isn't exactly a place that can just take any coach and get recruits like some of the big BB powers out there. Yes, we have a great tradition, and expect a lot from our hoops coach. However, I do think some of our fans unreasonably expect to make the NCAAs every year.
Buzz has been doing a good job, even if we're frustrated at times (imagine how frustrated he must get).
Ners - you must have learned your title writing from the Globe magazine editors. lol
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Not surprised to see you chime in with this caliber of content. How about offering some solutions as to who MU should get as a coach - considering you find Buzz Williams to be: "Exceedingly Average?" And just an FYI, if you were curious, I'd categorize you as 1 of the 10-15 "fans" I spoke of in my original post.
Ooo...I'm on Ners "list!!!" Oh and I love the way you question my fandom by putting it in quotes. I guess nearly 40 years of following MU basketball isn't enough for you unless I worship the ground Buzz walks on.
So be it...incredibly sad that someone with a MU education can't handle opinions that differ from yours with some maturity. So let me state what I believe is the case. Buzz is a good recruiter, but at this point an average bench coach. He undoubtedly can learn and hopefully will improve. Good enough for you fanboy???
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It's a discussion board. That's what it is for. If you want to start your little fanboy board with unicorns and balloons, go right ahead.
I get that. But the way we handle losses on this board is usually a bit childish. We lose to Villanova and suddenly Blue and Cadougan suck and will forever be useless. We lose to Georgetown and it's time for Buzz to go. I just think it's a bit silly. I guess it feels to me like we're all still in college. When you're there, you want instant success because you want to appreciate it while you're there. That's how I felt after 2003. We went to the Final Four my junior year, and after that, anything less was unacceptable. But once you're out for a few years I think you're supposed to realize that it's a process.
One loss does not a season make, does not a player's future determine, and does not end a coach's career. Yet we treat every loss as though it does. We beat Syracuse and we're top of the world, we lose to Georgetown and we're lower than pondscum. It just seems like an extreme lack of perspective. We're still in line to make the tournament. And if we do, we could still be a Sweet 16 team. Given the right matchup, we could go further. Who knows, maybe we get the luck of the draw, draw an 11-seed, upset a 6, either get the right 3 (San Diego State) or come up against a Cinderella 14 that we steamroll, and get a shot at reaching the Elite 8 by going through another Big East team like St. John's or Cincy after they just upset an overrated 2-seed from another conference? Before making "after this season" declarations, we should probably get to the point where the season is done. That's all I'm saying.
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I think people do not understand how hard it is to recruit at MU. Most WISC kids grew up Badger Fans, and we have just average talent in the state. We have a shot at the NCAA's and right now our 4 best player's were Juco's. That is pretty impressive. I'm happy that MU is consistently going to the NCAA's, But to goto the next level is going to be tough. Bottom line is, recruiting is King in College basketball. Is it everything No. But generally the teams that recruit the most talent win. You only get so much practice time and you only get the kids in your system for a few years. Has MU's D been great no. I will say I have seen improvement in both Otule and DG d the last few games. I'm a Buzz guy, and I'm gald the Admin has shown Commitment to MU basketball. We might have gotten a coach that is better at X and O's (Buzz is Young), But if we have less talent, IE the Deane years, are we really better off? While we are at maybe we should put Roy, Izzo and Howland on the Hot Seat.
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- I really don't understand the panic mode of this board, complete with constant state of the program debates, etc. I mean, as of this second we are looking like an upper bubble team who no one wants to play in the first round. Wow, that sounds familiar.
- Beyond this year, we lose Fulce, JFB and DB and gain Jamil Wilson plus some nice looking Freshman - hard to see a big drop off.
- Even a cursory, nonscientific glance shows that the sky isn't falling, and we're still very much the Marquette we all know and love. The drama is getting old.
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I think people do not understand how hard it is to recruit at MU. Most WISC kids grew up Badger Fans, and we have just average talent in the state. We have a shot at the NCAA's and right now our 4 best player's were Juco's. That is pretty impressive. I'm happy that MU is consistently going to the NCAA's, But to goto the next level is going to be tough. Bottom line is, recruiting is King in College basketball. Is it everything No. But generally the teams that recruit the most talent win. You only get so much practice time and you only get the kids in your system for a few years. Has MU's D been great no. I will say I have seen improvement in both Otule and DG d the last few games. I'm a Buzz guy, and I'm gald the Admin has shown Commitment to MU basketball. We might have gotten a coach that is better at X and O's (Buzz is Young), But if we have less talent, IE the Deane years, are we really better off? While we are at maybe we should put Roy, Izzo and Howland on the Hot Seat.
Honestly, I think we need an Elite 8 or Final 4 run. We didn't capitalize on our last trip to the Final 4 from a recruiting sense. Too bad, so sad, old news, not casting blame. But with Buzz's recruiting, maybe he could turn an Elite 8 trip into a top-10 recruit to commit here. If we can just turn out one or two of those players, show that we can compete nationally, it could well snowball. But until we get that run, we probably won't get there. Success breeds success, even if it takes some luck to get there.
- I really don't understand the panic mode of this board, complete with constant state of the program debates, etc. I mean, as of this second we are looking like an upper bubble team who no one wants to play in the first round. Wow, that sounds familiar.
- Beyond this year, we lose Fulce, JFB and DB and gain Jamil Wilson plus some nice looking Freshman - hard to see a big drop off.
- Even a cursory, nonscientific glance shows that the sky isn't falling, and we're still very much the Marquette we all know and love. The drama is getting old.
+1
Good perspective. The sky is still intact, though I would like to see another point guard in the mix before too long.
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But the way we handle losses on this board is usually a bit childish.
It's right up there with the RedSox' Sons of Sam Horn board circa 2003. Just a TOUCH of overreaction after each game.
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Oh wow, out of the 400+ posters there are 10 that don't like buzz. I'm sure that isn't the case at every other school. You realize that if you went to other boards they wouldn't be any different. It's called the internet, people post extreme views. Small minorities are given voices.
As for 'buzz deserving better' no one forces him to read the board. And if he chooses to I hope he has the good sense to Ignore nmb, warrior1965 and marquette65.
You have been posting like this for the last two years. Trying to shame people, hoping to turn scoop into into a fan club. One where we aren't allowed to question any decisions or complain. I think you are the one who should leave since you just don't get why this exists.
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Oh wow, out of the 400+ posters there are 10 that don't like buzz. I'm sure that isn't the case at every other school. You realize that if you went to other boards they wouldn't be any different. It's called the internet, people post extreme views. Small minorities are given voices.
As for 'buzz deserving better' no one forces him to read the board. And if he chooses to I hope he has the good sense to Ignore nmb, warrior1965 and marquette65.
You have been posting like this for the last two years. Trying to shame people, hoping to turn scoop into into a fan club. One where we aren't allowed to question any decisions or complain. I think you are the one who should leave since you just don't get why this exists.
I think that negative things and opinions should absolutely be shared and discussed, but IMHO, its the tenor of the negativity that leads to issues. The anonymity of the message board allows people to say things in a manner that people would not say face to face. We also know recruits, coaches and parents read the boards, so acting like we do, we don't make favorable impressions.
I would shame the board into better character, not into different content.
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Oh wow, out of the 400+ posters there are 10 that don't like buzz. I'm sure that isn't the case at every other school. You realize that if you went to other boards they wouldn't be any different. It's called the internet, people post extreme views. Small minorities are given voices.
As for 'buzz deserving better' no one forces him to read the board. And if he chooses to I hope he has the good sense to Ignore nmb, warrior1965 and marquette65.
You have been posting like this for the last two years. Trying to shame people, hoping to turn scoop into into a fan club. One where we aren't allowed to question any decisions or complain. I think you are the one who should leave since you just don't get why this exists.
I guess we just have different viewpoints - I never feel extreme views, ingorance nor idiocy have much of a place in society - or on a message board for that matter.
I'm not trying to censor opinions here, but simply championing a little bit of perspective. There is a good degree of sky is falling, knee jerk reaction that takes place here. MU has had some heartbreaking losses for sure under Buzz - but it gets to the point that everytime MU loses a game - some player sucks, the coaching sucks, JUCO's dont' allow for enough continuity (love that one that is now floating around due to Len Elmore making mention of it), etc. The bottome line is losing is part of sports - and though it sucks, it isn't reason to go bezerk critical of a coach and team that have largely been very successful/competitive over the last 2.5 years.
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Buzz ain't goin' nowhere fast.
1. MU is happy with him.
2. Hasn't done well enough to have another program steal him away.
3. Getting paid a king's fortune and can't command more sheckcles elsewhere.
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Buzz ain't goin' nowhere fast.
1. MU is happy with him.
2. Hasn't done well enough to have another program steal him away.
3. Getting paid a king's fortune and can't command more sheckcles elsewhere.
Give me an example of an under 40 coach at a BCS school that was in his third season that was such a hot property that everyone came calling?
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In Buzz We Trust. Buzz and his staff are learning from these games (atleast I hope so). Despite rarely being able to put together a full 40 minute gameplan consistently against Top 25 teams, I LOVE Buzz.
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No sorry. If you include only conference games, here are MU's defensive ratings:
EFG%: 15th
Turnover%: 4th
OffensiveReb%: 4th
3pt%: 10th
2pt%: 15th
Overall defensive efficiency: 13th
This is a bad defensive team. Period. Outside of the fact that we cause turnovers, this team doesn't do things well on that side of the court.
I think you missed the point - I'm simply stating that our defensive ratings thus far in the Big East have a lot to do with WHO we've played thus far in Big East play. Playing Top 15 teams, mostly on the road, tends to be more challenging for a team and its defense, than does it playing the bottome tier teams of a conference. Things should even out, and MU probably finishes around 8th overall in Big East defense - as it starts to play more teams in the lower tier. Sometimes very good offense beats good defense. Having said that, yes, this team has had some bad defensive lapses, stretches...but that is part of the game..
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MU has had some heartbreaking losses for sure under Buzz - but it gets to the point that everytime MU loses a game - some player sucks, the coaching sucks, JUCO's dont' allow for enough continuity
This is where I think you make your enemies. One of these things is not like the other. You can't equate people that make the first two arguments with those that make the last one. Once you start doing that, the objectors are right - there really isn't much of a reason to be on these boards.
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I think it is ridiculous to think that Buzz leaving would be a good idea and improve Marquette. If we had this year last year, everyone would chalk it up to losing the 3 amigos and it was the rebuilding year we all expected. Well we exceeded pre-season expectations and got a 6 seed. We then lose 3 players who played a huge amount of minutes and were all spent four years in the program. This year, the most experienced players we have are in their third year in the program, and two of those players have spent a majority of the time hurt.
I agree with Elmore that the lack of playing together may cause us problems, but that doesn't have much to do with JUCO's, at least not now. If we didn't recruit JUCO's, we would have a team filled with a bunch of freshman and sophomores who haven't played much together anyways. If he attributed it to JUCO's in a few years then maybe, but due to the empty 2007 class due to the coaching change and other reasons, no matter what background we recruited we wouldn't have any 4 year players in the program.
I have some criticisms of Buzz like anyone, he isn't perfect. I'm a little worried about the defense, but it seems like a lot of the problems, in my eyes at least, is that we get beat off the dribble pretty easily. This makes us always have to scramble to recover and if you are constantly rotating to help it only takes one slow rotation to cause a big breakdown. I don't know if this is a game plan issue because we are pressuring the ball to keep it out of the post or we just aren't great on the ball, but it worries me a bit. Also, I get a little worried about his developing of freshmen. However, I still am hopeful because of our true freshman, none are juniors, so there is still time to develop, and Gardner, Otule and Cadougan seem to be making strides.
Those are my two big worries, but I have a lot of faith in Buzz. I think he will continue to improve and be a very successful coach, hopefully all at MU. The Boeheim's and Calhoun's of the world have had their share of down seasons. I really think this is the year we all expected last year, but last year we had some 4 year seniors to shoulder the load. I think we are a year or two from being very good and hopefully we can continue to string together good recruiting classes to keep it going. Sorry for the novel, but a lot of the bashing on Buzz is sort of frustrating, even if it is from a vocal minority.
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I hope he doesn't leave. I appreciate stability, it's one of the things I liked about a recent coach we had, even if he rubbed people the wrong way. Going through coaches every 5 years is a bad thing for MU, it's destabilizing.
If he stays a long time, it means he's doing well and that's a good thing for Marquette. Unfortunately because we decided to go with an inexperienced coach we have growing pains to go through. That was the frustration in April of 2008 when we were a bonafide top 25 team, guaranteed a 4th straight NCAA appearance and probably could have waited a few extra weeks to go after someone with a few more coaching chops and if that didn't work out, then you still have Buzz to fall back on. He wasn't going anywhere. But MU felt acting in 72 hours was going to preserve a recruiting class (which of course it didn't). Those were the decisions MU made and now we have to hope it was the right course.
He's a nice guy, solid recruiter and has made progress as a coach. He's in a brutal league and it's unfortunate as hell that someone like him has to literally have trial by fire in a league like this. He has largely done well but certainly some frustrating L's along the way.
I would be thrilled if he's here 9 years and duplicates what the previous regime did. Absolutely thrilled. Hope it happens.
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I guess we just have different viewpoints - I never feel extreme views, ingorance nor idiocy have much of a place in society - or on a message board for that matter.
In my opinion, the initial post in this thread exhibits all three.
All teams have idiot fans and Marquette is no exception. All teams have fans who believe that their program is one recruit away from being a contender and a destination job and Marquette is no exception. All teams think have fans who think their team is under performing and may never go to the tournament again and Marquette is no exception. All teams have fans who worship the ground their coach walks on and Marquette is no exception. All teams have fans who want their coach fired and Marquette is no exception.
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I hope he doesn't leave. I appreciate stability, it's one of the things I liked about a recent coach we had, even if he rubbed people the wrong way. Going through coaches every 5 years is a bad thing for MU, it's destabilizing.
If he stays a long time, it means he's doing well and that's a good thing for Marquette. Unfortunately because we decided to go with an inexperienced coach we have growing pains to go through. That was the frustration in April of 2008 when were a bonafide top 25 team, guaranteed a 4th straight NCAA appearance and probably could have waited a few extra weeks to go after someone with a few more coaching chops and if that didn't work out, then you still have Buzz to fall back on. He wasn't going anywhere. But MU felt acting in 72 hours was going to preserve a recruiting class (which of course it didn't). Those were the decisions MU made and now we have to hope it was the right course.
He's a nice guy, solid recruiter and has made progress as a coach. He's in a brutal league and it's unfortunate as hell that someone like him has to literally have trial by fire in a league like this. He has largely done well but certainly some frustrating L's along the way.
I would be thrilled if he's here 9 years and duplicates what the previous regime did. Absolutely thrilled. Hope it happens.
Agree. Hope he's here for 15 years and add to the MU legacy. He's only in his 3rd year and is transitioning from the TC departure.
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Ding. Ding. Ding... Another thread hijacked into a big hug for TC. What a shock.
Good grief buddy. What Chicos say would include a final 4 and doing well in the BE. Get a life.
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Ners,
Most people on here think MUScoop is cool. I am a big MU fan so I come here to catch any breaking news and read some view points. But I would say that 80% of Alumni have not heard of MUScoop and 90% only read and don't post. My point is that MUScoop is not indicative of the MU fanbase.
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Ding. Ding. Ding... Another thread hijacked into a big hug for TC. What a shock.
I'll agree that Chico's hijacked the thread into "a big hug for TC" if you'll admit that you re-hijacked it yet another opportunity to bash Chicos. What a shock.
At least Chico's post was somewhat related to the topic of the thread. But then again, I guess yours was too since one key point of the thread was to bash Chicos. Again, shocking.
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Give me an example of an under 40 coach at a BCS school that was in his third season that was such a hot property that everyone came calling?
MU plays in a BCS conference but is not a BCS school. I would say Brad Stevens of Butler would be an example. Also under 40, also was in his 3rd season, also not at a BCS school. That's the most recent example...just last year.
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Nice post. I wish you would not have titled it that way because I had some very bad thoughts about you until I read this. You are spot on. These people have no clue how good we have it. No patience and no idea what it takes to get 5 guys used to playing together in the toughest conference in the country.
Smee
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1) I guess we just have different viewpoints - I never feel extreme views, ingorance nor idiocy have much of a place in society - or on a message board for that matter.
I'm not trying to censor opinions here, 2) but simply championing a little bit of perspective. There is a good degree of sky is falling, knee jerk reaction that takes place here. MU has had some heartbreaking losses for sure under Buzz - but it gets to the point that 3) everytime MU loses a game - some player sucks, the coaching sucks, JUCO's dont' allow for enough continuity (love that one that is now floating around due to Len Elmore making mention of it), etc. The bottome line is losing is part of sports - and though it sucks, it isn't reason to 4) go bezerk critical of a coach and team that have largely been very successful/competitive over the last 2.5 years.
1) Well, i know some people who have given their lives to protect people's rights to have extreme views.
2) You keep saying that. You AREN'T. In no way do you bring perspective. You inflame the situation. You just like to have people all riled up because that is what drama queens love. Someone has a minor issue with buzz and you want to turn it into an attack on MU's hiring choice. People with perspective can't stand to read your passive aggressive posts. The, either you want him gone or should never complain argument does no good. Go check the 'would we be better off without buzz poll' and let me know how the results fit in with your assumption that a good % of posters dislike him.
3) It doesn't 'get to the point' it has always been at that point. There are 400 people posting after a loss at least one will say that: the refs jobbed us, coach blew it, some player sucks. Get over it and stop picturing youself in spandex, flying in to save buzz from an angry mob.
4) another passive aggressive jab. People aren't critical, they are berserk critical. The most berserk person on this board is you, only you are berserk defencive.
Would you please just ignore willie warrior, nmb and warriors1965 so that you can stop being offended by them.
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I'll agree that Chico's hijacked the thread into "a big hug for TC" if you'll admit that you re-hijacked it yet another opportunity to bash Chicos. What a shock.
At least Chico's post was somewhat related to the topic of the thread. But then again, I guess yours was too since one key point of the thread was to bash Chicos. Again, shocking.
Whoa whoa...did a post get deleted or something? I see a quote from Lenny but don't see his post. What just happened?
It wasn't a hijacking for TC either... I disagree with that assessment. I said the day Buzz was hired that we should be so lucky to have a repeat of the previous 9 year administration when so many were bashing it. Lenny has consistently said that Buzz is a better coach and better recruiter, one would surmise by that logic that we would thus have better results. I hope he's right. I'm not even asking for that, I'm asking for a duplication of the previous run and I'll be thrilled, especially the last 7 years (the first two were rebuilding years).
Continue to graduate players 90%+, no NCAA probation issues, no police blotter issues, success on the court, high attendance, etc....I'll be thrilled. Hope it happens. Wasn't meant to be a hijack at all.
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What the f*** is the point of this thread? That you can't satisfy all of the people all of the time?
Stop the presses.
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1) Well, i know some people who have given their lives to protect people's rights to have extreme views.
2) You keep saying that. You AREN'T. In no way do you bring perspective. You inflame the situation. You just like to have people all riled up because that is what drama queens love. Someone has a minor issue with buzz and you want to turn it into an attack on MU's hiring choice. People with perspective can't stand to read your passive aggressive posts. The, either you want him gone or should never complain argument does no good. Go check the 'would we be better off without buzz poll' and let me know how the results fit in with your assumption that a good % of posters dislike him.3) It doesn't 'get to the point' it has always been at that point. There are 400 people posting after a loss at least one will say that: the refs jobbed us, coach blew it, some player sucks. Get over it and stop picturing youself in spandex, flying in to save buzz from an angry mob.
4) another passive aggressive jab. People aren't critical, they are berserk critical. The most berserk person on this board is you, only you are berserk defencive.
Would you please just ignore willie warrior, nmb and warriors1965 so that you can stop being offended by them.
The last thing I am is a drama queen - you can call me a fanboy, all day long - but drama queen? no. Also, can you show me where I said a "good % of posters dislike him?" Pretty sure I wrote 10-15 posters..and you keep dropping the 400 people post here number - so that equates to about 3% of posters.
If you have a problem with my posts, and tell me I should leave the board, and am the most beserk person on the board - just put me on Ignore. Lastly, please tell me how I inflame situations by trying to lend a voice of reason?? Last year oafter the DePaul loss we had people claiming we wouldn't make the NIT - at which time I was critical of the knee jerk/overreaction crowd. We very well might still make the NCAA this year -and all of the negativity and critical nature of our players and coaches will all be ridiculous.
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Far as I can tell this thread has been one huge straw man.
Haven't seen one poster call for Buzz to go.
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My assumption is that we have about 10 to 12 trolls on this board that pose at MU fans, and try to stir things up. I wish there was more banning of these types on this board. Then there are a couple of posters that don't like Buzz, and two that probably like Buzz but feels the need to defend Crean and in so doing seems to need to put Buzz down.
So, only a couple of posters who are MU fans that are really down on Buzz, in my opinion. For the average fan that isn't a nut job (those are the fans that are not posting on here all the time; and yes I'm calling myself a nut job), Buzz is amazing. For the fans that really follow the team, most seem to see a unique personality who really gets what Marquette is about off the court. Which, in my opinion, is one of two keys, the other being to field a quality team. I think most of us want to win, but not at any cost. We wouldn't tolerat a Calipari type of coach even if we won it all. Players have to be students and given the direction to find success after basketball/college. Buzz gets that, and thus I think he is a good fit.
EVERYONE I talk to at games and that are fans/friends of Marquette really appreciate Buzz and what he has done in such a short time. Most coaches would would take the Marquette job would just be getting a base of players and their footing about now. Buzz kept us going with the 3 amigos (and Burke) and did an amazing job last year. To be where we are now and over the last two seasons after loosing our coach, is simply a great job. And to be looking forward at getting better next year, is simply a nice position to be in.
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And again, Ners, what is the point? Did you think you were going to convince those 10-15 posters to be less negative because of your condemnation?
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Lastly, please tell me how I inflame situations by trying to lend a voice of reason??
The title of this thread for one.
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Ignore doesn't work on your thread titles.
If you weren't a drama queen then the title of this thread would have been "why we should be happy with buzz." It would have been about how tough the BEast is and how he had an empty recruiting class when he came in but was able to successfully scout juco's, land top 100 recruits and compete in every game but 1 in the last 2 years. How we don't have any violations, our players attend class, play hard, how he's a good role model for what young men should be... Instead it was you whining about a few posters.
I don't care if you are 'trying to lend a voice of reason'. It is HOW you are trying is the problem. We don't need 3 new topics about how everyone needs to calm down after every loss.
You know how some people will complain about something America does? Then someone else will say "if you don't love it why don't you move somewhere else!"
That is what you do. It doesn't add any reason or anything else to the discussion. Why do that just to target 4-6% of the posters?
*EDIT - Haha, I was so mad that I did math wrong!
I'm glad you are able to recognize knee jerk reactions by others. Now GET OVER IT and stop making such ridiculous threads with crappy titles. It doesn't bring perspective or lend reason or do anything other than make this board look insane.
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First of all 10-15 of 400 is 4-6%. Second, Ignore doesn't work on your thread titles.
10/400 = .025 or 2.5%
15/400 = .0375 or 3.75%
Other than that, nice post.
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And again, Ners, what is the point? Did you think you were going to convince those 10-15 posters to be less negative because of your condemnation?
The title of this thread for one.
Good point about this thread probably not reversing the opinion of those fringe 10-15 always negative posters. However, I have a genuine concern about how those 10-15 might influence some fans/posters who might be in the middle or leaning toward being Buzz critical. Why do I care?? Because I think it would be a HUGE loss to MU to lose Buzz Williams - and if more and more fans become critical of the job Buzz has done - (considering most schools of our level/geography/size would be thrilled with the results thus far) it is easier for Buzz to walk/leave. Lot easier to have an attitude of "I don't need this crap, when I can go to a school that is easier to recruit to, and located in a more geographically friendly area with regard to weather and recruiting base."
Obviously the title of this thread - knowing that I'm a big Buzz supporter - was written sarcastically. Didn't think I'd really need to put that in teal. This post was started in the spirit of lending some perspective - not to be inflammatory. Thankfully it spawned the Buzz Williams poll which has been overwhelmingly favorable.
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This post was started in the spirit of lending some perspective - not to be inflammatory. Thankfully it spawned the Buzz Williams poll which has been overwhelmingly favorable.
And the overwhelmingly favorable results of the poll reveal that the vast majority of posters here are doing fine in the perspective department.
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I really like Buzz - recruiting, player development, persona (even being as quirky as he is) Definitely needs some improvements in his team defense and possibly some execution in key critical game moments (but he is young and hopefully learning).
The problem is this fanbase's expectations. In the Big East, MU is likely between a 2nd tier (at best) and a 3rd tier (normally) talented team. This means MU is competing for 5th place each year at best.
First Tier: Pitt, UConn, Georgetown, Syracuse, Villanova
Second Tier: West Virginia, Louisville, Note Dame
Third Tier: Cincinnati, St Johns, Seton Hall, Providence
Fourth Tier: Rutgers, USF, Depaul
Again - if MU overachieves - 5th looks to be the ceiling, if it underachieves 12 is very possibly.
The conference, while provides huge exposure for MU, is ridiculously talented.
The fanbase expecting MU to be in the top 4 in this conference is unrealistic.
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lock it and pop it.
Can't see this thread glow with insights that outshine the dark negativity that will be attracted.
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So you think that a few fans on a message board will convince Buzz to uproot his family and leave a job that he would otherwise stay at?
And you think other people need some perspective?
Why would you think the moderates would be swayed by the likes of willie warrior?
One of you is Olbermann and the other is Beck and everyone in the middle thinks you are both ridiculous.
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So you think that a few fans on a message board will convince Buzz to uproot his family and leave a job that he would otherwise stay at?
And you think other people need some perspective?
Why would you think the moderates would be swayed by the likes of willie warrior?
One of you is Olbermann and the other is Beck and everyone in the middle thinks you are both ridiculous.
+1
I guess that's why I don't get the title of the thread. Ners clearly loves Buzz, has admitted a man crush on him. That's fine. He also loves MU. So why would he hope that the guy he loves leaves the school he loves? Weird.
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+1
I guess that's why I don't get the title of the thread. Ners clearly loves Buzz, has admitted a man crush on him. That's fine. He also loves MU. So why would he hope that the guy he loves leaves the school he loves? Weird.
I agree. I finally had a chance to read through this thread and I don't understand it. One, the title alone should be enough to get Ners double secret probation. Two, Buzz is doing a fine job for being here only a couple years. Can't we agree that it takes a few years to truly see the quality of his coaching? And three, CBB didn't turn this into a TC love thread. I agree if the next several years are as good as we had the previous 9 years, that would be great. Heck, I'll go so far as to say if we have a run as good as we had with either Al or Hank, I'd be ecstatic. Did I just hijack the thread and turn it into an Al/Hank love affair?
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So you think that a few fans on a message board will convince Buzz to uproot his family and leave a job that he would otherwise stay at?
And you think other people need some perspective?
Why would you think the moderates would be swayed by the likes of willie warrior?
One of you is Olbermann and the other is Beck and everyone in the middle thinks you are both ridiculous.
Game, set, match.
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Despite rarely being able to put together a full 40 minute gameplan consistently against Top 25 teams
You do realize that the other team is also trying to win and sometimes they can overcome the best game plan. The inability of a team to execute might, just might, have something to do with the other team and their talent, especially, as you say, when they are top 25 and we are on the road.
Or do you subscribe the the idea that MU has never lost a game in the 100 years we have been playing basketball. Either we win or the coach is an idiot.
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Great, we've now established that two teams are trying to win in a basketball game.. this thread gets better and better.
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Great, we've now established that two teams are trying to win in a basketball game.. this thread gets better and better.
If you lived in Cleveland and followed the Cavs this year, this might be quite a revelation...
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Unlike you, I don't want Marquette basketball to head back into the 90s.
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+1
I guess that's why I don't get the title of the thread. Ners clearly loves Buzz, has admitted a man crush on him. That's fine. He also loves MU. So why would he hope that the guy he loves leaves the school he loves? Weird.
What part of sarcasm do you not understand? Do I seriously need to put my Thread title in teal? So you think that a few fans on a message board will convince Buzz to uproot his family and leave a job that he would otherwise stay at?
And you think other people need some perspective?
Why would you think the moderates would be swayed by the likes of willie warrior?
One of you is Olbermann and the other is Beck and everyone in the middle thinks you are both ridiculous.
Sorry you see it that way...but head coaches are human too. Yes, they probably have a thicker skin than most human beings - but at the end of the day coaches, like employees or anyone else like being appreciated - and certainly appreciate reasonable fanbase expectations. I know for a FACT that part of Kevin O'Neill leaft MU was due to the criticism he received which largely resulted from inflated fanbase expectations.
I guess the fact that I have gratitude and appreciation for Buzz - and choose to express it frequently, and not knee jerk over every loss - does make me lack perspective. Majerus was practically run off from MU, ONeill saw TN as a better place to go, and Crean left for Indiana. 3 good coaches who all chose to leave MU. Think if we want to retain a coach, it certainly would help for it to be known we value them. Sometimes some posts/content here could make many wonder.
Another FACT - the current coaching staff does read this Board and the Scout site...and that comes straight from the mouth of a current coach on staff.
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Honestly, making it to the big dance is something 200-teams around the ncaa NEVER get to experience. Buzz is 2-2.
When people have a winning team for years (just like MU) and then they start to lose, people freak out.
I.E. Notre Dame football...
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Would you stop acting like some sort of martyr!?! Everyone here thinks that you go about showing your "gratitude and appreciation for Buzz" in a Duche-like manner.
I explained to you, in my first response, what an appropriate "Why you should be thankful for Buzz" topic could contain (and should be titled). The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I, and a ton of other people, are trying to give you some advice on how to better execute your intentions.
Believe me, I know a thing or two about coming off like an pretty boy without it being what I intended. When everyone in the world tells you that you stink you don't just keep screaming about how it has only been a few hours since your last shower.
Now go sleep it off, take in what we are saying without demonizing us and try harder next time to remember that even people you think are extreme are still humans.
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What part of sarcasm do you not understand? Do I seriously need to put my Thread title in teal?
Sorry you see it that way...but head coaches are human too. Yes, they probably have a thicker skin than most human beings - but at the end of the day coaches, like employees or anyone else like being appreciated - and certainly appreciate reasonable fanbase expectations. I know for a FACT that part of Kevin O'Neill leaft MU was due to the criticism he received which largely resulted from inflated fanbase expectations.
I guess the fact that I have gratitude and appreciation for Buzz - and choose to express it frequently, and not knee jerk over every loss - does make me lack perspective. Majerus was practically run off from MU, ONeill saw TN as a better place to go, and Crean left for Indiana. 3 good coaches who all chose to leave MU. Think if we want to retain a coach, it certainly would help for it to be known we value them. Sometimes some posts/content here could make many wonder.
Another FACT - the current coaching staff does read this Board and the Scout site...and that comes straight from the mouth of a current coach on staff.
In that case, hey guys, can you fix the defense so it isn't complete crap? I'm sure you may even be able to find some books on defense in the library. Or, how about taking in a workshop.
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(http://img3.prosperent.com/images/250x250/www.onlinesports.com/images/cbv-bd-02451a.gif)
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(http://img3.prosperent.com/images/250x250/www.onlinesports.com/images/cbv-bd-02451a.gif)
perfect. Now that wasn't so hard was it?
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In Buzz We Trust. Buzz and his staff are learning from these games (atleast I hope so). Despite rarely being able to put together a full 40 minute gameplan consistently against Top 25 teams, I LOVE Buzz.
Buzz and his staff are learning from these games?
What leads you to believe this? Is the defense improving? Is the late game play improving?
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What part of sarcasm do you not understand? Do I seriously need to put my Thread title in teal?
Sorry you see it that way...but head coaches are human too. Yes, they probably have a thicker skin than most human beings - but at the end of the day coaches, like employees or anyone else like being appreciated - and certainly appreciate reasonable fanbase expectations. I know for a FACT that part of Kevin O'Neill leaft MU was due to the criticism he received which largely resulted from inflated fanbase expectations.
I guess the fact that I have gratitude and appreciation for Buzz - and choose to express it frequently, and not knee jerk over every loss - does make me lack perspective. Majerus was practically run off from MU, ONeill saw TN as a better place to go, and Crean left for Indiana. 3 good coaches who all chose to leave MU. Think if we want to retain a coach, it certainly would help for it to be known we value them. Sometimes some posts/content here could make many wonder.
Another FACT - the current coaching staff does read this Board and the Scout site...and that comes straight from the mouth of a current coach on staff.
No, I didn't know it was sarcasm.
I'm pretty sure that the coaches would know if "we" (the Royal We) support them by attending games, donating money, paying him a hefty salary. The fact that there are a bunch of MU fans that are on a message board talking about the program, warts and all, shows how much we support MU. Maybe it's just me, but I think the coaches have a LOT thicker skin then you are giving them credit for.
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Guys, It is time for a little change in perspective. Because MU has been televised so many times this year many friends and acquaintances have watched the Warriors and quite a few have contacted me about what an EXCITING team they are to watch! these are not Alums or Milwaukeans but folks living in other parts of the country mostly SO Cal and they look forward to watching OUR guys. Someone I grew up with,has lived in Boston for 20 years, happened to be in DC this weekend and for whatever reason( no relation to either team) took his kid to the MU/GU game. afterward he contacted me to relate what a good game it was and that i should be proud of our guys. Just some information of what I hear from random people who call or email me to prise our team
The sky is not falling
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+1 Elephantraker
Mike Ditka once said: "If they stop talking about you, then you know you are in trouble." You think the crickets at the Allstate Arena or the lack of activity on the DePaul site makes Oliver Purnell feel welcomed?
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+1 Elephantraker
Mike Ditka once said: "If they stop talking about you, then you know you are in trouble." You think the crickets at the Allstate Arena or the lack of activity on the DePaul site makes Oliver Purnell feel welcomed?
I've got a good friend who is a native Chicagoan and absolute sports nut. Can name the Bears starting lineup and what college they went to, always telling me what the Cubs needs to do to get over the hump. He WENT to DePaul, but couldn't pick Mac Koshwal out of a lineup and didn't know who Purnell was when I told him I thought it was a good hire.
That pretty much sums up all you need to know about the state of DePaul bball. Lets all be thankful for where we are right now folks, this team is a threat to win on any given night, home or away.
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I seldom post on this site because more times than not I am accused of being anti Buzz or anti MU. I have been an MU fan since 1968 and loved every minute of it. That said, I do believe MU sells itself short and walks a fine line between success and failure. Buzz has exceeded my expectations for him, but admit the bar was set extremely low. Each year it seems to me that program and school go in with fingers crossed praying we do not end up on the bottom of the BE. That scares me.
Often I hear MU alums, which I also am, debate on why MU is better school than our rivals and we are on higher moral ground. I cannot take that side of the argument 100% of the time. We use academic standards as a source of pride and built in excuse. To me MU is probably looked upon as an above average school with top 50 program by the rest of the country.
Posters have told me that MU can never repeat the 70's and to some degree that is true. The world has changed. However, it does anger me that nationally more "casual" fans respect the Gonzaga or Butler programs to ours. Again, in my opinion we do not market the school, conference or program to a national audience. Because of that area alone I did not think Buzz was the right guy.
I would not want him to go because our search would include the usual non basketball people and finding a guy is tough. Love or hate TC or KO they had the skills to sell MU nationally. Unfortunately the overall culture of school and program handcuffed them
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Would you stop acting like some sort of martyr!?! Everyone here thinks that you go about showing your "gratitude and appreciation for Buzz" in a Duche-like manner.
I explained to you, in my first response, what an appropriate "Why you should be thankful for Buzz" topic could contain (and should be titled). The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I, and a ton of other people, are trying to give you some advice on how to better execute your intentions. Believe me, I know a thing or two about coming off like an pretty boy without it being what I intended. When everyone in the world tells you that you stink you don't just keep screaming about how it has only been a few hours since your last shower.
Now go sleep it off, take in what we are saying without demonizing us and try harder next time to remember that even people you think are extreme are still humans.
Think you need to chill out dude. You sure seem to speak on behalf of "everyone." If you choose to put yourself in the category of the 10-15 people on this board I've "demonized," that's your issue. 4 or 5 people in this thread "agreeing" with you does not equate to "everyone." Do you want me to say that the 30 or so others who haven't complained about me in this thread agree with me? And regarding me needing to treat the people I think are "extreme," more humanely - let's be real - those "humans" are the ones slinging insults toward 18 year old kids and our coaching staff.
Lastly, you know what is really douchey?? Telling someone they need to take your advice..."Hey man, you need to take my advicce - I know we've never met before...but I'm telling you..this is how it is..because I am Mr. Know it All."
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Wow, where to start with this...
Horrendous thread title. There's NO WAY that thread title conveys sarcasm. It could easily have been posted by Willie, M65, NMB, etc.
Ners, I drank as much of the Buzz kool-aid as anyone but I'm not getting baited by some of the negativos who post here. The vast silent majority of Marquette fans are solidly behind Buzz at this stage of his tenure.
RawdogDX makes a pretty good point in a slightly-snotty way. Consider it.
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WVU blew a second half lead and lost to Syracuse tonight.
Since I'm an avid reader here, I know how it works ... Any team that has a second half lead must win the game or their coach is a poor game coach and makes poor half-time adjustments. If he's not fired, at the very least, he must hire an assistant coach that can teach and run the defense.
What am I missing?
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I did not see the game, but if WVU missed any free throws, then I say you are on to something.
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WVU blew a second half lead and lost to Syracuse tonight.
Since I'm an avid reader here, I know how it works ... Any team that has a second half lead must win the game or their coach is a poor game coach and makes poor half-time adjustments. If he's not fired, at the very least, he must hire an assistant coach that can teach and run the defense.
What am I missing?
This crap is getting tired.
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To make matters worse - Huggins actually to beat by Buzz Williams and MU this year...as did Jim Boheim.
You did fail to mention that he needs to make his players shoot at least 100 Free Throw per day, as they went 7-12 from the line.
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oh how quaint. here come the fanboys.
Has he been doing it all season and twice in the last two years in the tourney. Looking for Huggins to say at press conference, 'we didn't play like US' and then start to cry.
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Maybe I'm a little sensitive to it because I was at the Louisville game and still have nightmares, but it seems to me there are an awefull lot of double digit leads evaporating this year in the Big East and beyond. I know it has been Marquette's MO the last few seasons, but it seems like the trend has really caught on.
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WVU blew a second half lead and lost to Syracuse tonight.
Since I'm an avid reader here, I know how it works ... Any team that has a second half lead must win the game or their coach is a poor game coach and makes poor half-time adjustments. If he's not fired, at the very least, he must hire an assistant coach that can teach and run the defense.
What am I missing?
I hope we can have these threads continue to be started. ::)
He has two Final Fours under his belt, that buys him the benefit of the doubt. Life is unfair, but that's how it works. I gave the example of when I lived in Cleveland during Bellichek's era. It was his first head coaching gig, he couldn't get it done and was fired. Once he started winning Super Bowls, the benefit of the doubt shifts the other way. Fair? Probably not, but that's the reality.
Personally, I'd fire Huggins for being a terrible representative of the university, but he knows his hoops and has more than earned his bball accolades. No different than the Jay Wright thread you started two days ago. Or any others you will start down the road. Wright, Huggins, etc earned a pass. Buzz hasn't yet, that's how life works in American sports...fair or not....it's reality.
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I hope we can have these threads continue to be started. ::)
He has two Final Fours under his belt, that buys him the benefit of the doubt. Life is unfair, but that's how it works. I gave the example of when I lived in Cleveland during Bellichek's era. It was his first head coaching gig, he couldn't get it done and was fired. Once he started winning Super Bowls, the benefit of the doubt shifts the other way. Fair? Probably not, but that's the reality.
Personally, I'd fire Huggins for being a terrible representative of the university, but he knows his hoops and has more than earned his bball accolades. No different than the Jay Wright thread you started two days ago. Or any others you will start down the road. Wright, Huggins, etc earned a pass. Buzz hasn't yet, that's how life works in American sports...fair or not....it's reality.
Well..most people wouldn't expect a 3rd year coach to have multiple Final Fours under their belt..
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This crap is getting tired.
+1
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Maybe I'm a little sensitive to it because I was at the Louisville game and still have nightmares, but it seems to me there are an awefull lot of double digit leads evaporating this year in the Big East and beyond. I know it has been Marquette's MO the last few seasons, but it seems like the trend has really caught on.
It is NOT the case that a lot of double digit leads are "blown" this year. It happens all the time. The difference this year is we are in a lot of close games and we are more sensitive to it and notice it more.
That's why I continue to poke fun at all the "fixes" around here.
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This crap is getting tired.
Equally tired are all the threads started after we lose complaining about everything Buzz did wrong, the team did wrong, each player did wrong, the refs did wrong, we'll never win again, etc etc. while never remotely acknowledging that the teams we have been losing to are among the absolute best teams in the country.
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Equally tired are all the threads started after we lose complaining about everything Buzz did wrong, the team did wrong, each player did wrong, the refs did wrong, we'll never win again, etc etc. while never remotely acknowledging that the teams we have been losing to are among the absolute best teams in the country.
Perhaps, but where people get frustrated is when we're beating some of those teams by double digit points late in the second half to crumble, well that does get some folks excited. Also, some fans at MU expect that we are also supposed to be among the "best teams in the country" and should win our fair share of these. Are those fair expectations?
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Well..most people wouldn't expect a 3rd year coach to have multiple Final Fours under their belt..
Very true...but a Brad Stevens...who had 1 Final Four in his first 3 years, is going to get a bigger benefit of the doubt than someone who hasn't.
There's a reason why a certain someone (I've pledged I won't mention his name) was up for a prime job, because he had been there on the top stage. Fair or not, that earns a coach a lot of latitude.
I don't think you disagree with this...do you?
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Perhaps, but where people get frustrated is when we're beating some of those teams by double digit points late in the second half to crumble, well that does get some folks excited. Also, some fans at MU expect that we are also supposed to be among the "best teams in the country" and should win our fair share of these. Are those fair expectations?
Louisville was a disaster. Nobody can deny that. But to my knowledge that's the only game this year that we've blown a double digit lead
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Perhaps, but where people get frustrated is when we're beating some of those teams by double digit points late in the second half to crumble, well that does get some folks excited. Also, some fans at MU expect that we are also supposed to be among the "best teams in the country" and should win our fair share of these. Are those fair expectations?
I get as frustrated as anyone but I think I have tried to gain some sense of perspective about it. In fact, I melted down so bad during that Louisville debacle that I scared my 3-year old son. Talk about a quick life lesson about what's really important.
And hell no, those are not fair expectations. Not at this point in time for what I think are pretty obvious reasons that have been discussed over and over again.
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Louisville was a disaster. Nobody can deny that. But to my knowledge that's the only game this year that we've blown a double digit lead
Notre Dame we blew a double digit second half lead and lost.
Syracuse we blew a double digit lead all the way to a tie but recovered in the final 3 minutes
MU had a double digit lead in the second half to UWM but hung on to win by 3...I guess you could say we didn't blow that one since the closest UWM got was trailing by 2 points.
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Notre Dame we blew a double digit second half lead and lost.
Syracuse we blew a double digit lead all the way to a tie but recovered in the final 3 minutes
MU had a double digit lead in the second half to UWM but hung on to win by 3...I guess you could say we didn't blow that one since the closest UWM got was trailing by 2 points.
Apologies as I inadvertently hit "post" before I was finished. You had stated that people were frustrated because of the double digit leads MU had blown LATE in the second half. Think that only applies to Louisville.
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Thankfully, Buzz doesn't strike me as the type to be spending his time reading this message board.
Even if he did though, he's not a fan sitting behind a computer monitor, he's actually been involved with coaching in college ball for awhile now. He knows how hard it is to consistently get top notch recruits at any school without a great home recruiting base and/or without a great basketball tradition like a Duke, North Carolina, Kanasa, UCLA, etc. He knows that even very proven coaches at upper tier programs like North Carolina or UCLA miss the NCAA Tournament sometimes. Making the NCAA Tournament is a tough thing to do.
Regardless of the sport, be it pro or college, some fans just will be constantly much more negative than positive towards the coach who is coaching a team they cheer for. Look at the Packers head coach Mike McCarthy. I'm a huge Packers fan and regularly read two Packer forms. A certain segment of fans on both forums have constantly ragged on McCarthy. In fact, many of those guys were this year calling for MM to be fired immediately or after the season because McCarthy supposedly would always prevent the Packers from "ever seriously competing for a championship." ::)
Buzz obviously is far from perfect as a coach, but overall, he's exceeded my expectations for on court team performance so far in his tenure and i see no reason he can't improve with experience as both a bench coach and recruiter. Plus, IMO he's brought in kids who have represented the university wonderfully as people. I see that as important. Besides Maymon, i can't think of a single other player Buzz has brought in that i had trouble liking a lot as a person.
Hell, for anyone thinking Buzz has done a poor or very mediocre job so far, think about how for example the Providence fans feel?
Keno Davis was hired at the same time as Buzz, but has no NCAA Tournament bids, a 4-14 conference record last year, and is 3-9 so far this year. If that was happening at MU with Buzz, then sure, fans should be extremely frustrated and very concerned about the direction of the program. Who knows, maybe Davis will get Providence to turn things around, but a guy like him shows how tough it can be the win in a conference like the Big East when you aren't a traditional power.
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We spoke about this earlier today and even got into the Keno example. The question is if Buzz was at Providence are they any better? If Keno was at MU are we any better? Impossible to know. Both came into totally different situations, different commitments by the university, different traditions of recent success, etc. Impossible to know
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We spoke about this earlier today and even got into the Keno example. The question is if Buzz was at Providence are they any better? If Keno was at MU are we any better? Impossible to know. Both came into totally different situations, different commitments by the university, different traditions of recent success, etc. Impossible to know.
I didn't see the other Keno discussion you mentioned, so i can't comment. I just brought him up because he was hired when Buzz was, is in the Big East, and also was hired at a school that isn't a traditional Big East power which makes recruiting tougher.
Given that i don't follow Providence closely at all, i won't claim to know how Keno has recruited since he got hired and thus if that's likely the main reason for his major struggles or if it's more a coaching issue?
Either way, that fact is that Davis is only 7-23 the last two years in Big East conference play. That's really bad and if it was happening here at Marquette, i would then understand why fans would be very concerned about the direction of the program and if Davis was in over his head.
As for if things were reversed for the two coaches, obviously we can't know how exactly things would have played out. That said, looking at things right now, i'm certainly glad we have Buzz instead of Keno. I see no legit reason to to believe that we'd be better off with Davis.
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We spoke about this earlier today and even got into the Keno example. The question is if Buzz was at Providence are they any better? If Keno was at MU are we any better? Impossible to know. Both came into totally different situations, different commitments by the university, different traditions of recent success, etc. Impossible to know
Obviously Buzz walked into a very good situation with the Big 3 and Lazar - dont think anyone would disagree with that. However where Buzz deserves a good deal of credit is for how fast he re-loaded a depleted MU roster due to transfers or LOI's being broken. For MU to not skip a beat, largely, has been a big feather in Buzz's cap. Like JUCO's or not - you cannot argue with the quality and caliber of JUCO's brought in, that have played a significant role in keeping MU highly competitive.
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I've got a good friend who is a native Chicagoan and absolute sports nut. Can name the Bears starting lineup and what college they went to, always telling me what the Cubs needs to do to get over the hump. He WENT to DePaul, but couldn't pick Mac Koshwal out of a lineup and didn't know who Purnell was when I told him I thought it was a good hire.
That pretty much sums up all you need to know about the state of DePaul bball. Lets all be thankful for where we are right now folks, this team is a threat to win on any given night, home or away.
Freeway?
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We spoke about this earlier today and even got into the Keno example. The question is if Buzz was at Providence are they any better? If Keno was at MU are we any better? Impossible to know. Both came into totally different situations, different commitments by the university, different traditions of recent success, etc. Impossible to know
Hypotheticals and "what ifs" are by definition impossible to KNOW. That said, think it's fair to say the Friars would trade Keno for Buzz in a heartbeat.
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Hypotheticals and "what ifs" are by definition impossible to KNOW. That said, think it's fair to say the Friars would trade Keno for Buzz in a heartbeat.
I think they'd trade Keno for a sack of used socks in a heartbeat.
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Obviously Buzz walked into a very good situation with the Big 3 and Lazar - dont think anyone would disagree with that. However where Buzz deserves a good deal of credit is for how fast he re-loaded a depleted MU roster due to transfers or LOI's being broken. For MU to not skip a beat, largely, has been a big feather in Buzz's cap. Like JUCO's or not - you cannot argue with the quality and caliber of JUCO's brought in, that have played a significant role in keeping MU highly competitive.
I don't think anyone would question that at all. Of course a big chunk of that is being able to sell what the program has going for it, the recent success, etc. In other words, is it easier to reload at MU with our recent success or at Providence or at DePaul or wherever has not had recent success? I think we all know that answer.
Lenny and Pakuni say that PC would trade Buzz for Keno right now...no one would disagree with them. Buzz is now an established coach with 2+ years of NCAAs behind him. That doesn't change the fact we'll never know who would have done what. It also doesn't change the fact that 2+ years ago PC or pretty much no other DI school would have offered Buzz their head coaching job considering what happened at New Orleans. This bit of info is somehow glossed over by Lenny and Pakuni.
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I don't think anyone would question that at all. Of course a big chunk of that is being able to sell what the program has going for it, the recent success, etc. In other words, is it easier to reload at MU with our recent success or at Providence or at DePaul or wherever has not had recent success? I think we all know that answer.
Lenny and Pakuni say that PC would trade Buzz for Keno right now...no one would disagree with them. Buzz is now an established coach with 2+ years of NCAAs behind him. That doesn't change the fact we'll never know who would have done what. It also doesn't change the fact that 2+ years ago PC or pretty much no other DI school would have offered Buzz their head coaching job considering what happened at New Orleans. This bit of info is somehow glossed over by Lenny and Pakuni.
How long was the search process at MU?
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How long was the search process at MU?
Depends when you start the clock. Search process started April 2nd, Buzz was announced April 8th but the decision to hire him was prior to the 8th with first leak that he was the guy on April 6th. Since Buzz wasn't option A or B, some will argue the clock doesn't start until after Miller and Bennett said no (Bennett on April 3rd and Miller on April 4th).
Big game tonight...go Warriors
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Depends when you start the clock. Search process started April 2nd, Buzz was announced April 8th but the decision to hire him was prior to the 8th with first leak that he was the guy on April 6th. Since Buzz wasn't option A or B, some will argue the clock doesn't start until after Miller and Bennett said no (Bennett on April 3rd and Miller on April 4th).
Big game tonight...go Warriors
Seems like ages ago. Who were other possible candidates other than Buzz after Miller and Bennett pulled out. Did the decision have to be made that quickly. I know they were afraid of losing recruits, which happened anyway. Were there no other possibilites? Would there have been other candidates available, say April 20th?
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I think they'd trade Keno for a sack of used socks in a heartbeat.
Cleveland Browns fans would traded Bellicheck for a box of rocks when I was there. UCLA fans with Lavin. UCLA fans with Bartow. Etc, etc.
Situation, timing, etc, etc, all come into play.
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Seems like ages ago. Who were other possible candidates other than Buzz after Miller and Bennett pulled out. Did the decision have to be made that quickly. I know they were afraid of losing recruits, which happened anyway. Were there no other possibilites? Would there have been other candidates available, say April 20th?
MU was interested in Anthony Grant who was Virginia Commonwealth's coach at the time - and he said thanks but no thanks. The reality of the MU situation is that no solid, upper echelon exisiting coach at another BCS type of university is going to leave the program they are at (assuming things are going fairly well - which you'd have to think they would be in order for them to be an attractive candidate) to come to MU. Is it any surprise that our best coaches thus far since the days of Al have been young assistants - Majerus, O'Neill, Crean, Buzz??
We've seen what happens when MU tries to get an established/veteran coach - Dukiet and Deane. This is my biggest beef with those who hate on Buzz - if not him, then who?? Considering we were shot down by the above...