I Hope Buzz leaves MU after this season

[NersEllenson]

I'll probably get banned again, and don't really care.  There are about 10-15 posters here who are a disgrace to the MU community - assuming they are actually TRUE MU fans, and not posers, trolls or others with a self serving agenda.

Buzz and staff deserve MUCH better than what some of this MU Scoop community offer - and for that reason, I hope he takes his act elsewhere and we'll then see what becomes of MU.  MU is NOT a destination coaching job, and Marquette is NOT an ideal place to recruit to.  If it were, Tom Crean and Kevin O'Neill would have stayed at MU.  Then again, maybe they wouldn't have - and they simply left because of growing tired of dealing with an idiotic fan base that has an over-inflated view of its stature on the college basketball landscape.

95% of schools would be estatic with a coach like Buzz.  Young.  Can recruit. Good rep of university.  Kids grow as people and players, and don't get into off court trouble.  Has his teams competitve every game.  Take away our joke of a non-conference schedule, and MU has by far and away played its toughest schedule EVER - and most of the top teams have been on the road.  We have 3 wins over Top 25 teams, no bad losses, and still have a great chance to make the NCAA.

Yet we have so many disgruntled fans questioning Buzz and alluding to calling for his head.  An absolute disgrace.

[drewm88]

I don't.

[Blackhat]

Sorry your standards are so low.   MU can be a destination job but we need people who believe we can get there and hold people we pay well(among the best, if they earn it) accountable. 

I'm not calling for Buzz's head but the trend of poor defense with little improvement throughout the year gives me pause about his future.

If you can't handle higher expectations maybe you should go cheer for a Horizon league team or MAC team.

[reinko]

I'll probably get banned again, and don't really care.  There are about 10-15 posters here who are a disgrace to the MU community - assuming they are actually TRUE MU fans, and not posers, trolls or others with a self serving agenda.

Buzz and staff deserve MUCH better than what some of this MU Scoop community offer - and for that reason, I hope he takes his act elsewhere and we'll then see what becomes of MU.  MU is NOT a destination coaching job, and Marquette is NOT an ideal place to recruit to.  If it were, Tom Crean and Kevin O'Neill would have stayed at MU.  Then again, maybe they wouldn't have - and they simply left because of growing tired of dealing with an idiotic fan base that has an over-inflated view of its stature on the college basketball landscape.

95% of schools would be estatic with a coach like Buzz.  Young.  Can recruit. Good rep of university.  Kids grow as people and players, and don't get into off court trouble.  Has his teams competitve every game.  Take away our joke of a non-conference schedule, and MU has by far and away played its toughest schedule EVER - and most of the top teams have been on the road.  We have 3 wins over Top 25 teams, no bad losses, and still have a great chance to make the NCAA.

Yet we have so many disgruntled fans questioning Buzz and alluding to calling for his head.  An absolute disgrace.

Well three of those 10 are posters are the same person, warriors1965, nomorebuycks, and warriors65.  And don't let the fringe minority dictate policy  [redacted political bomb to try to steer this thread off course   ].  

99% of MU fans want Buzz and are more or less pleased with the job he is doing.

[brewcity77]

Great...we have had a dearth of negative thread titles this week. It's been too long since we attacked our coach and players. Thanks, Ners.

[GGGG]

It's a discussion board.  That's what it is for.  If you want to start your little fanboy board with unicorns and balloons, go right ahead.

[NersEllenson]

Sorry your standards are so low.   MU can be a destination job but we need people who believe we can get there and hold people we pay well(among the best, if they earn it) accountable. 

I'm not calling for Buzz's head but the trend of poor defense with little improvement throughout the year gives me pause about his future.

If you can't handle higher expectations maybe you should go cheer for a Horizon league team or MAC team.

I'm all for having high standards - but not having unrealistic, inflated standards - such as expecting a coach just in his 3rd year at MU to guide us to a Big East title or Top 3 or 4 finish.  Part of our defense not being "good" has a little bit to do with the caliber of competition we've played since Vanderbilt.  We've played 12 Top 25 Pomroy teams.  They are top 25 for a reason, because they are darn good - and most of these have been on the road.

Lastly, if Buzz leaves - who is going to take the MU job??  We got shot down by all the other up and coming coaches - Tony Bennett (how is he doing at Virginia?), Sean Miller (how's he doing at Arizona?), Anthony Grant (whow's he doing at Alabama?), Keno Davis (How's he doing at Providence?).  How are wonder boys Darin Horn and Brad Stevens doing at South Carolina and Butler this year?  Does Calipari suck as a coach because his Kentucky team just got beat at Vanderbilt, like MU did?

[NersEllenson]

It's a discussion board.  That's what it is for.  If you want to start your little fanboy board with unicorns and balloons, go right ahead.

Not surprised to see you chime in with this caliber of content.  How about offering some solutions as to who MU should get as a coach - considering you find Buzz Williams to be:  "Exceedingly Average?"  And just an FYI, if you were curious, I'd categorize you as 1 of the 10-15 "fans" I spoke of in my original post. 

[bilsu]

You should of posted.

I hope Buzz stays, but I would not blame him for leaving, because of ......

MU is doing better in the Big East than the preseason predictions. It is obvious that MU is compettive based on coaching an effort. MU is short on talent. Buzz is doing a good job coaching, but needs to recruit better. I for one hope Buzz stays a very long time.

[MikeyT42]

I don't know the numbers but the small, small, small percentage that question buzz on here don't compare to the vast majority that love what he does with the program and will continue to do.

Buzz is turning heads around the country, he is blazing the recruiting trail and continues on the traditions of marquette basketball.

Don't be soured by what you read from 3 posters on a message board.

[GGGG]

I'm all for having high standards - but not having unrealistic, inflated standards - such as expecting a coach just in his 3rd year at MU to guide us to a Big East title or Top 3 or 4 finish.  Part of our defense not being "good" has a little bit to do with the caliber of competition we've played since Vanderbilt.  We've played 12 Top 25 Pomroy teams.  They are top 25 for a reason, because they are darn good - and most of these have been on the road.

No sorry.  If you include only conference games, here are MU's defensive ratings:

EFG%: 15th
Turnover%: 4th
OffensiveReb%: 4th
3pt%: 10th
2pt%: 15th
Overall defensive efficiency: 13th

This is a bad defensive team.  Period.  Outside of the fact that we cause turnovers, this team doesn't do things well on that side of the court.

[Niv Berkowitz]

If you can't handle higher expectations maybe you should go cheer for a Horizon league team or MAC team.

There's a stark difference between higher expectations and realistic expectations.

Save all the b.s. that "you expect to win championships!!" Let's be friggin' real here. MU is in the Big East. We haven't been in it that long, and we certainly don't have the national pedigree/perception that traditional hoops powerhouse programs like Syracuse, Georgetown, UConn and Louisville. That's just a fact. MU is well known by hoops followers, but it's nowhere near those other schools. The ONLY way MU gets to that point is if we ran off several final four/elite eight/conference titles over a span of several years and I think that's an unfair burden to put on the team/coach.

At some point, we are who we are. I'm just as guilty of having unreal expectations on this team at times. But if you step back and look at MU and all that it has going for it and has to offer, realistic expectations - to me - would be to consistently be in the top half of the conference and maybe two out of five years, have a team that's capable of winning the big east or at least placing in the top four. To expect us to be top five in the big east every year and when we aren't call for the coach's head or 'soul searching' by the school? That's reactionary b.s. and typical sports fandom in 2011.

I will now get off my soap box.

[rocky_warrior]

99% of MU fans want Buzz and are more or less pleased with the job he is doing.

I think, and certainly hope that's the case too.  Marquette, despite recent success, isn't exactly a place that can just take any coach and get recruits like some of the big BB powers out there.  Yes, we have a great tradition, and expect a lot from our hoops coach.  However, I do think some of our fans unreasonably expect to make the NCAAs every year.  

Buzz has been doing a good job, even if we're frustrated at times (imagine how frustrated he must get).

Ners - you must have learned your title writing from the Globe magazine editors.  lol

[GGGG]

Not surprised to see you chime in with this caliber of content.  How about offering some solutions as to who MU should get as a coach - considering you find Buzz Williams to be:  "Exceedingly Average?"  And just an FYI, if you were curious, I'd categorize you as 1 of the 10-15 "fans" I spoke of in my original post. 

Ooo...I'm on Ners "list!!!"  Oh and I love the way you question my fandom by putting it in quotes.  I guess nearly 40 years of following MU basketball isn't enough for you unless I worship the ground Buzz walks on.

So be it...incredibly sad that someone with a MU education can't handle opinions that differ from yours with some maturity.  So let me state what I believe is the case.  Buzz is a good recruiter, but at this point an average bench coach.  He undoubtedly can learn and hopefully will improve.  Good enough for you fanboy???

[brewcity77]

It's a discussion board.  That's what it is for.  If you want to start your little fanboy board with unicorns and balloons, go right ahead.

I get that. But the way we handle losses on this board is usually a bit childish. We lose to Villanova and suddenly Blue and Cadougan suck and will forever be useless. We lose to Georgetown and it's time for Buzz to go. I just think it's a bit silly. I guess it feels to me like we're all still in college. When you're there, you want instant success because you want to appreciate it while you're there. That's how I felt after 2003. We went to the Final Four my junior year, and after that, anything less was unacceptable. But once you're out for a few years I think you're supposed to realize that it's a process.

One loss does not a season make, does not a player's future determine, and does not end a coach's career. Yet we treat every loss as though it does. We beat Syracuse and we're top of the world, we lose to Georgetown and we're lower than pondscum. It just seems like an extreme lack of perspective. We're still in line to make the tournament. And if we do, we could still be a Sweet 16 team. Given the right matchup, we could go further. Who knows, maybe we get the luck of the draw, draw an 11-seed, upset a 6, either get the right 3 (San Diego State) or come up against a Cinderella 14 that we steamroll, and get a shot at reaching the Elite 8 by going through another Big East team like St. John's or Cincy after they just upset an overrated 2-seed from another conference? Before making "after this season" declarations, we should probably get to the point where the season is done. That's all I'm saying.

[kmwtrucks]

I think people do not understand how hard it is to recruit at MU.  Most WISC kids grew up Badger Fans, and we have just average talent in the state.  We have a shot at the NCAA's and right now our 4 best player's were Juco's.  That is pretty impressive.  I'm happy that MU is consistently going to the NCAA's, But to goto the next level is going to be tough.  Bottom line is, recruiting is King in College basketball.  Is it everything No.  But generally the teams that recruit the most talent win.  You only get so much practice time and you only get the kids in your system for a few years.  Has MU's D been great no.  I will say I have seen improvement in both Otule and DG d the last few games.   I'm a Buzz guy, and I'm gald the Admin has shown Commitment to MU basketball.  We might have gotten a coach that is better at X and O's (Buzz is Young), But if we have less talent, IE the Deane years, are we really better off?  While we are at maybe we should put Roy, Izzo and Howland on the Hot Seat.

[MUBurrow]

- I really don't understand the panic mode of this board, complete with constant state of the program debates, etc.  I mean, as of this second we are looking like an upper bubble team who no one wants to play in the first round.  Wow, that sounds familiar.  
- Beyond this year, we lose Fulce, JFB and DB and gain Jamil Wilson plus some nice looking Freshman - hard to see a big drop off.
- Even a cursory, nonscientific glance shows that the sky isn't falling, and we're still very much the Marquette we all know and love. The drama is getting old.

[brewcity77]

I think people do not understand how hard it is to recruit at MU.  Most WISC kids grew up Badger Fans, and we have just average talent in the state.  We have a shot at the NCAA's and right now our 4 best player's were Juco's.  That is pretty impressive.  I'm happy that MU is consistently going to the NCAA's, But to goto the next level is going to be tough.  Bottom line is, recruiting is King in College basketball.  Is it everything No.  But generally the teams that recruit the most talent win.  You only get so much practice time and you only get the kids in your system for a few years.  Has MU's D been great no.  I will say I have seen improvement in both Otule and DG d the last few games.   I'm a Buzz guy, and I'm gald the Admin has shown Commitment to MU basketball.  We might have gotten a coach that is better at X and O's (Buzz is Young), But if we have less talent, IE the Deane years, are we really better off?  While we are at maybe we should put Roy, Izzo and Howland on the Hot Seat.

Honestly, I think we need an Elite 8 or Final 4 run. We didn't capitalize on our last trip to the Final 4 from a recruiting sense. Too bad, so sad, old news, not casting blame. But with Buzz's recruiting, maybe he could turn an Elite 8 trip into a top-10 recruit to commit here. If we can just turn out one or two of those players, show that we can compete nationally, it could well snowball. But until we get that run, we probably won't get there. Success breeds success, even if it takes some luck to get there.

- I really don't understand the panic mode of this board, complete with constant state of the program debates, etc.  I mean, as of this second we are looking like an upper bubble team who no one wants to play in the first round.  Wow, that sounds familiar.  
- Beyond this year, we lose Fulce, JFB and DB and gain Jamil Wilson plus some nice looking Freshman - hard to see a big drop off.
- Even a cursory, nonscientific glance shows that the sky isn't falling, and we're still very much the Marquette we all know and love. The drama is getting old.

+1

Good perspective. The sky is still intact, though I would like to see another point guard in the mix before too long.

[lab_warrior]

But the way we handle losses on this board is usually a bit childish.

It's right up there with the RedSox' Sons of Sam Horn board circa 2003.  Just a TOUCH of overreaction after each game.

[RawdogDX]

Oh wow, out of the 400+ posters there are 10 that don't like buzz.  I'm sure that isn't the case at every other school.   You realize that if you went to other boards they wouldn't be any different.  It's called the internet, people post extreme views.  Small minorities are given voices. 

As for 'buzz deserving better' no one forces him to read the board.  And if he chooses to I hope he has the good sense to Ignore nmb, warrior1965 and marquette65.

You have been posting like this for the last two years.  Trying to shame people, hoping to turn scoop into into a fan club. One where we aren't allowed to question any decisions or complain.  I think you are the one who should leave since you just don't get why this exists.

[mu03eng]

Oh wow, out of the 400+ posters there are 10 that don't like buzz.  I'm sure that isn't the case at every other school.  You realize that if you went to other boards they wouldn't be any different.  It's called the internet, people post extreme views.  Small minorities are given voices.  

As for 'buzz deserving better' no one forces him to read the board.  And if he chooses to I hope he has the good sense to Ignore nmb, warrior1965 and marquette65.

You have been posting like this for the last two years.  Trying to shame people, hoping to turn scoop into into a fan club. One where we aren't allowed to question any decisions or complain.  I think you are the one who should leave since you just don't get why this exists.

I think that negative things and opinions should absolutely be shared and discussed, but IMHO, its the tenor of the negativity that leads to issues.  The anonymity of the message board allows people to say things in a manner that people would not say face to face.  We also know recruits, coaches and parents read the boards, so acting like we do, we don't make favorable impressions.

I would shame the board into better character, not into different content.

[NersEllenson]

Oh wow, out of the 400+ posters there are 10 that don't like buzz.  I'm sure that isn't the case at every other school.   You realize that if you went to other boards they wouldn't be any different.  It's called the internet, people post extreme views.  Small minorities are given voices. 

As for 'buzz deserving better' no one forces him to read the board.  And if he chooses to I hope he has the good sense to Ignore nmb, warrior1965 and marquette65.

You have been posting like this for the last two years.  Trying to shame people, hoping to turn scoop into into a fan club. One where we aren't allowed to question any decisions or complain.  I think you are the one who should leave since you just don't get why this exists.

I guess we just have different viewpoints - I never feel extreme views, ingorance nor idiocy have much of a place in society - or on a message board for that matter.  

I'm not trying to censor opinions here, but simply championing a little bit of perspective.  There is a good degree of sky is falling, knee jerk reaction that takes place here.  MU has had some heartbreaking losses for sure under Buzz - but it gets to the point that everytime MU loses a game - some player sucks, the coaching sucks, JUCO's dont' allow for enough continuity (love that one that is now floating around due to Len Elmore making mention of it), etc.  The bottome line is losing is part of sports - and though it sucks, it isn't reason to go bezerk critical of a coach and team that have largely been very successful/competitive over the last 2.5 years.

[4everwarriors]

Buzz ain't goin' nowhere fast.

1. MU is happy with him.
2. Hasn't done well enough to have another program steal him away.
3. Getting paid a king's fortune and can't command more sheckcles elsewhere.

[Tugg Speedman]

Buzz ain't goin' nowhere fast.

1. MU is happy with him.
2. Hasn't done well enough to have another program steal him away.
3. Getting paid a king's fortune and can't command more sheckcles elsewhere.

Give me an example of an under 40 coach at a BCS school that was in his third season that was such a hot property that everyone came calling?

[Wade for President]

In Buzz We Trust.  Buzz and his staff are learning from these games (atleast I hope so).  Despite rarely being able to put together a full 40 minute gameplan consistently against Top 25 teams, I LOVE Buzz.