I Hope Buzz leaves MU after this season

[NersEllenson]

To make matters worse - Huggins actually to beat by Buzz Williams and MU this year...as did Jim Boheim.

You did fail to mention that he needs to make his players shoot at least 100 Free Throw per day, as they went 7-12 from the line.  

[groove]

oh how quaint. here come the fanboys.

Has he been doing it all season and twice in the last two years in the tourney.  Looking for Huggins to say at press conference, 'we didn't play like US' and then start to cry.

[RubyWiscy]

Maybe I'm a little sensitive to it because I was at the Louisville game and still have nightmares, but it seems to me there are an awefull lot of double digit leads evaporating this year in the Big East and beyond. I know it has been Marquette's MO the last few seasons, but it seems like the trend has really caught on.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

WVU blew a second half lead and lost to Syracuse tonight.

Since I'm an avid reader here, I know how it works ... Any team that has a second half lead must win the game or their coach is a poor game coach and makes poor half-time adjustments.  If he's not fired, at the very least, he must hire an assistant coach that can teach and run the defense.

What am I missing?

I hope we can have these threads continue to be started.   

He has two Final Fours under his belt, that buys him the benefit of the doubt.  Life is unfair, but that's how it works.  I gave the example of when I lived in Cleveland during Bellichek's era.  It was his first head coaching gig, he couldn't get it done and was fired.  Once he started winning Super Bowls, the benefit of the doubt shifts the other way.  Fair?  Probably not, but that's the reality.

Personally, I'd fire Huggins for being a terrible representative of the university, but he knows his hoops and has more than earned his bball accolades.  No different than the Jay Wright thread you started two days ago.   Or any others you will start down the road.  Wright, Huggins, etc earned a pass.  Buzz hasn't yet, that's how life works in American sports...fair or not....it's reality.

[NersEllenson]

I hope we can have these threads continue to be started.   

He has two Final Fours under his belt, that buys him the benefit of the doubt.  Life is unfair, but that's how it works.  I gave the example of when I lived in Cleveland during Bellichek's era.  It was his first head coaching gig, he couldn't get it done and was fired.  Once he started winning Super Bowls, the benefit of the doubt shifts the other way.  Fair?  Probably not, but that's the reality.

Personally, I'd fire Huggins for being a terrible representative of the university, but he knows his hoops and has more than earned his bball accolades.  No different than the Jay Wright thread you started two days ago.   Or any others you will start down the road.  Wright, Huggins, etc earned a pass.  Buzz hasn't yet, that's how life works in American sports...fair or not....it's reality.

Well..most people wouldn't expect a 3rd year coach to have multiple Final Fours under their belt..

[HoopsMalone]

This crap is getting tired.

+1

[Tugg Speedman]

Maybe I'm a little sensitive to it because I was at the Louisville game and still have nightmares, but it seems to me there are an awefull lot of double digit leads evaporating this year in the Big East and beyond. I know it has been Marquette's MO the last few seasons, but it seems like the trend has really caught on.  

It is NOT the case that a lot of double digit leads are "blown" this year.  It happens all the time.  The difference this year is we are in a lot of close games and we are more sensitive to it and notice it more.

That's why I continue to poke fun at all the "fixes" around here.

[ATL MU Warrior]

This crap is getting tired.

Equally tired are all the threads started after we lose complaining about everything Buzz did wrong, the team did wrong, each player did wrong, the refs did wrong, we'll never win again, etc etc. while never remotely acknowledging that the teams we have been losing to are among the absolute best teams in the country. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Equally tired are all the threads started after we lose complaining about everything Buzz did wrong, the team did wrong, each player did wrong, the refs did wrong, we'll never win again, etc etc. while never remotely acknowledging that the teams we have been losing to are among the absolute best teams in the country. 

Perhaps, but where people get frustrated is when we're beating some of those teams by double digit points late in the second half to crumble, well that does get some folks excited.  Also, some fans at MU expect that we are also supposed to be among the "best teams in the country" and should win our fair share of these.  Are those fair expectations?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Well..most people wouldn't expect a 3rd year coach to have multiple Final Fours under their belt..

Very true...but a Brad Stevens...who had 1 Final Four in his first 3 years, is going to get a bigger benefit of the doubt than someone who hasn't.

There's a reason why a certain someone (I've pledged I won't mention his name) was up for a prime job, because he had been there on the top stage.  Fair or not, that earns a coach a lot of latitude.

I don't think you disagree with this...do you?

[Lennys Tap]

Perhaps, but where people get frustrated is when we're beating some of those teams by double digit points late in the second half to crumble, well that does get some folks excited.  Also, some fans at MU expect that we are also supposed to be among the "best teams in the country" and should win our fair share of these.  Are those fair expectations?

Louisville was a disaster. Nobody can deny that. But to my knowledge that's the only game this year that we've blown a double digit lead

[ATL MU Warrior]

Perhaps, but where people get frustrated is when we're beating some of those teams by double digit points late in the second half to crumble, well that does get some folks excited.  Also, some fans at MU expect that we are also supposed to be among the "best teams in the country" and should win our fair share of these.  Are those fair expectations?

I get as frustrated as anyone but I think I have tried to gain some sense of perspective about it.  In fact, I melted down so bad during that Louisville debacle that I scared my 3-year old son.  Talk about a quick life lesson about what's really important.  

And hell no, those are not fair expectations.  Not at this point in time for what I think are pretty obvious reasons that have been discussed over and over again.  

[ChicosBailBonds]

Louisville was a disaster. Nobody can deny that. But to my knowledge that's the only game this year that we've blown a double digit lead

Notre Dame we blew a double digit second half lead and lost.

Syracuse we blew a double digit lead all the way to a tie but recovered in the final 3 minutes

MU had a double digit lead in the second half to UWM but hung on to win by 3...I guess you could say we didn't blow that one since the closest UWM got was trailing by 2 points.

[Lennys Tap]

Notre Dame we blew a double digit second half lead and lost.

Syracuse we blew a double digit lead all the way to a tie but recovered in the final 3 minutes

MU had a double digit lead in the second half to UWM but hung on to win by 3...I guess you could say we didn't blow that one since the closest UWM got was trailing by 2 points.

Apologies as I inadvertently hit "post" before I was finished. You had stated that people were frustrated because of the double digit leads MU had blown LATE in the second half. Think that only applies to Louisville.

[El Duderino]

Thankfully, Buzz doesn't strike me as the type to be spending his time reading this message board.

Even if he did though, he's not a fan sitting behind a computer monitor, he's actually been involved with coaching in college ball for awhile now. He knows how hard it is to consistently get top notch recruits at any school without a great home recruiting base and/or without a great basketball tradition like a Duke, North Carolina, Kanasa, UCLA, etc. He knows that even very proven coaches at upper tier programs like North Carolina or UCLA miss the NCAA Tournament sometimes. Making the NCAA Tournament is a tough thing to do.

Regardless of the sport, be it pro or college, some fans just will be constantly much more negative than positive towards the coach who is coaching a team they cheer for. Look at the Packers head coach Mike McCarthy. I'm a huge Packers fan and regularly read two Packer forms. A certain segment of fans on both forums have constantly ragged on McCarthy. In fact, many of those guys were this year calling for MM to be fired immediately or after the season because McCarthy supposedly would always prevent the Packers from "ever seriously competing for a championship." 

Buzz obviously is far from perfect as a coach, but overall, he's exceeded my expectations for on court team performance so far in his tenure and i see no reason he can't improve with experience as both a bench coach and recruiter. Plus, IMO he's brought in kids who have represented the university wonderfully as people. I see that as important. Besides Maymon, i can't think of a single other player Buzz has brought in that i had trouble liking a lot as a person.

Hell, for anyone thinking Buzz has done a poor or very mediocre job so far, think about how for example the Providence fans feel?

Keno Davis was hired at the same time as Buzz, but has no NCAA Tournament bids, a 4-14 conference record last year, and is 3-9 so far this year. If that was happening at MU with Buzz, then sure, fans should be extremely frustrated and very concerned about the direction of the program. Who knows, maybe Davis will get Providence to turn things around, but a guy like him shows how tough it can be the win in a conference like the Big East when you aren't a traditional power.

[ChicosBailBonds]

We spoke about this earlier today and even got into the Keno example.  The question is if Buzz was at Providence are they any better?  If Keno was at MU are we any better?  Impossible to know.  Both came into totally different situations, different commitments by the university, different traditions of recent success, etc.  Impossible to know

[El Duderino]

We spoke about this earlier today and even got into the Keno example.  The question is if Buzz was at Providence are they any better?  If Keno was at MU are we any better?  Impossible to know.  Both came into totally different situations, different commitments by the university, different traditions of recent success, etc.  Impossible to know.

I didn't see the other Keno discussion you mentioned, so i can't comment. I just brought him up because he was hired when Buzz was, is in the Big East, and also was hired at a school that isn't a traditional Big East power which makes recruiting tougher.

Given that i don't follow Providence closely at all, i won't claim to know how Keno has recruited since he got hired and thus if that's likely the main reason for his major struggles or if it's more a coaching issue?

Either way, that fact is that Davis is only 7-23 the last two years in Big East conference play. That's really bad and if it was happening here at Marquette, i would then understand why fans would be very concerned about the direction of the program and if Davis was in over his head.

As for if things were reversed for the two coaches, obviously we can't know how exactly things would have played out. That said, looking at things right now, i'm certainly glad we have Buzz instead of Keno. I see no legit reason to to believe that we'd be better off with Davis.

[NersEllenson]

We spoke about this earlier today and even got into the Keno example.  The question is if Buzz was at Providence are they any better?  If Keno was at MU are we any better?  Impossible to know.  Both came into totally different situations, different commitments by the university, different traditions of recent success, etc.  Impossible to know

Obviously Buzz walked into a very good situation with the Big 3 and Lazar - dont think anyone would disagree with that.  However where Buzz deserves a good deal of credit is for how fast he re-loaded a depleted MU roster due to transfers or LOI's being broken.  For MU to not skip a beat, largely, has been a big feather in Buzz's cap.  Like JUCO's or not - you cannot argue with the quality and caliber of JUCO's brought in, that have played a significant role in keeping MU highly competitive.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

I've got a good friend who is a native Chicagoan and absolute sports nut.  Can name the Bears starting lineup and what college they went to, always telling me what the Cubs needs to do to get over the hump.  He WENT to DePaul, but couldn't pick Mac Koshwal out of a lineup and didn't know who Purnell was when I told him I thought it was a good hire.

That pretty much sums up all you need to know about the state of DePaul bball.  Lets all be thankful for where we are right now folks, this team is a threat to win on any given night, home or away.

Freeway?

[Lennys Tap]

We spoke about this earlier today and even got into the Keno example.  The question is if Buzz was at Providence are they any better?  If Keno was at MU are we any better?  Impossible to know.  Both came into totally different situations, different commitments by the university, different traditions of recent success, etc.  Impossible to know

Hypotheticals and "what ifs" are by definition impossible to KNOW. That said, think it's fair to say the Friars would trade Keno for Buzz in a heartbeat.

[Pakuni]

Hypotheticals and "what ifs" are by definition impossible to KNOW. That said, think it's fair to say the Friars would trade Keno for Buzz in a heartbeat.

I think they'd trade Keno for a sack of used socks in a heartbeat.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Obviously Buzz walked into a very good situation with the Big 3 and Lazar - dont think anyone would disagree with that.  However where Buzz deserves a good deal of credit is for how fast he re-loaded a depleted MU roster due to transfers or LOI's being broken.  For MU to not skip a beat, largely, has been a big feather in Buzz's cap.  Like JUCO's or not - you cannot argue with the quality and caliber of JUCO's brought in, that have played a significant role in keeping MU highly competitive.

I don't think anyone would question that at all.  Of course a big chunk of that is being able to sell what the program has going for it, the recent success, etc.  In other words, is it easier to reload at MU with our recent success or at Providence or at DePaul or wherever has not had recent success?   I think we all know that answer.

Lenny and Pakuni say that PC would trade Buzz for Keno right now...no one would disagree with them.  Buzz is now an established coach with 2+ years of NCAAs behind him.  That doesn't change the fact we'll never know who would have done what.  It also doesn't change the fact that 2+ years ago PC or pretty much no other DI school would have offered Buzz their head coaching job considering what happened at New Orleans.  This bit of info is somehow glossed over by Lenny and Pakuni.

[groove]

I don't think anyone would question that at all.  Of course a big chunk of that is being able to sell what the program has going for it, the recent success, etc.  In other words, is it easier to reload at MU with our recent success or at Providence or at DePaul or wherever has not had recent success?   I think we all know that answer.

Lenny and Pakuni say that PC would trade Buzz for Keno right now...no one would disagree with them.  Buzz is now an established coach with 2+ years of NCAAs behind him.  That doesn't change the fact we'll never know who would have done what.  It also doesn't change the fact that 2+ years ago PC or pretty much no other DI school would have offered Buzz their head coaching job considering what happened at New Orleans.  This bit of info is somehow glossed over by Lenny and Pakuni.

How long was the search process at MU?

[ChicosBailBonds]

How long was the search process at MU?

Depends when you start the clock.  Search process started April 2nd, Buzz was announced April 8th but the decision to hire him was prior to the 8th with first leak that he was the guy on April 6th.  Since Buzz wasn't option A or B, some will argue the clock doesn't start until after Miller and Bennett said no (Bennett on April 3rd and Miller on April 4th). 

Big game tonight...go Warriors

[groove]

Depends when you start the clock.  Search process started April 2nd, Buzz was announced April 8th but the decision to hire him was prior to the 8th with first leak that he was the guy on April 6th.  Since Buzz wasn't option A or B, some will argue the clock doesn't start until after Miller and Bennett said no (Bennett on April 3rd and Miller on April 4th). 

Big game tonight...go Warriors

Seems like ages ago. Who were other possible candidates other than Buzz after Miller and Bennett pulled out. Did the decision have to be made that quickly. I know they were afraid of losing recruits, which happened anyway. Were there no other possibilites? Would there have been other candidates available, say April 20th?