on the U right now vs. Ole Miss? Thought we'd have a thread a mile long by now on how we missed out on this non-traditional guard. BTW, Nick Williams is strutin' his stuff for the Rebels also.
Been watching this game..and Newbill does look like a really good player. In fact, the announcer said his coach - Larry Eustachy said Newbill is the best freshman he's ever coached. Too bad he's not in an MU uniform. Kid looks real smooth on the floor..great shot, smart player..solid handle. Hate to say it, but he looks better than any of the freshman on our team. Still not sure he was "Buzz-cut," as it looks like from seeing him play..he has serious skill..and perhaps the staff would have "cut" one of the other recruits in last year's class - if it was a case of making room for Jamil Wilson.
Agree regarding Newbill. He's guarding Nick on the defensive end late in the game.
What is his statline? I'm interested to see his play.
If he can hit an outside shot we could use him!
Newbill would offer Marquette something it desperately needs; a tenacious rebounder. He's got a nose for the basketball and has been a beast on the boards this young season. He's especially adept at snaring rebounds on the offensive end. Buzz missed the boat on this one and killed what could have been a terrific pipeline to the Philly area. At least two four star recruits from Philly were interested in attending the Elite Camp and soured on the program after DJ was jettisoned. One has already signed with Nova. Buzz could have had himself a nice connection to a basketball rich area. I'm afraid that's gone. By the way, I predict Newbill has a better college career than Vander Blue.
Quote from: bradforster on December 04, 2010, 09:19:22 PM
Newbill would offer Marquette something it desperately needs; a tenacious rebounder. He's got a nose for the basketball and has been a beast on the boards this young season. He's especially adept at snaring rebounds on the offensive end. Buzz missed the boat on this one and killed what could have been a terrific pipeline to the Philly area. At least two four star recruits from Philly were interested in attending the Elite Camp and soured on the program after DJ was jettisoned. One has already signed with Nova. Buzz could have had himself a nice connection to a basketball rich area. I'm afraid that's gone. By the way, I predict Newbill has a better college career than Vander Blue.
welcome back
Newbill's line: 36 min, 10 point, 10 reb (4 off), 2-3 fg, 0-1 3pt, 6-10 ft, 2 ast, 1 stl, 2 TO, 2 pf
His season thus far: http://scores.espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=53149
Just for fun...Vander's stats thus far: http://espn.go.com/ncb/player/profile?playerId=51393
What odds and terms you want Brad?
More DJ's please.
Quote from: bradforster on December 04, 2010, 09:19:22 PM
By the way, I predict Newbill has a better college career than Vander Blue.
This would not surprise me given what I've seen of both players so far. Newbill looks like the real deal. Van has potential, but does not seem nearly as polished as Newbill at this point.
Odds on what? Newbill vs. Overhyped Blue? I don't need any odds. I've seen both of them play and I'm certainly not impressed with Vander's goofy looking jumper. As for Jamil Wilson...Oregon misses him about as much as ESPN does Joe Theismann on it's football telecasts. He's another average player who couldn't find his way around the court in year one.
Quote from: bradforster on December 04, 2010, 09:36:58 PM
Odds on what? Newbill vs. Overhyped Blue? I don't need any odds. I've seen both of them play and I'm certainly not impressed with Vander's goofy looking jumper. As for Jamil Wilson...Oregon misses him about as much as ESPN does Joe Theismann on it's football telecasts. He's another average player who couldn't find his way around the court in year one.
Brad baby, don't mince your words. Just say what you mean.
I'll take Jamil Wilson any day of the week. 6-4 guards are a dime a dozen. Newbill would be buried anyway on this roster.
No solid player with a penchant for hitting the boards would be buried on an average roster.
Quote from: bradforster on December 04, 2010, 09:36:58 PM
Odds on what? Newbill vs. Overhyped Blue? I don't need any odds. I've seen both of them play and I'm certainly not impressed with Vander's goofy looking jumper. As for Jamil Wilson...Oregon misses him about as much as ESPN does Joe Theismann on it's football telecasts. He's another average player who couldn't find his way around the court in year one.
You are ridiculous. How many times have you seen Newbill play? Against what competition? Who else is on the floor with him? You simply can't compare Vander and DJ at this stage, and it will be difficult to ever really get a feel for what DJ would have done at MU since So Miss simply isn't in the same category. People obviously had high expectations for Vander, but if you watched any of his senior season you should have realized he still had some work to do. Not every freshman is Carmelo Anthony, Derrick Rose or Kyrie Irving, but that doesn't mean they can't develop into great players. Vander definitely has was more upside than DJ does.
Your comments on Jamil are just totally unfounded and indefensible so I won't bother addressing them.
How's Newbill's defense? In Buzz's system, guys (especially freshmen) earn playing time on the defensive end of the floor. It's been plenty acknowledged that Blue is earning his playing time on that end, and that his offense is not as strong. If he was at MU, would Newbill be getting as much playing time as Jamail Jones?
Brad where have you been? We have missed your YouTube clip voiceovers broadcasted from your parents basement
Be nice. Brad is a huge fan of this average Marquette team. Just not a "fanboy" like some of us.
JFMU, for your information I have a very good job and chose to leave the broadcast industry. I could very easily set up a green screen and place a fancy background behind me. Just because I chose to sit in front of a computer in my home office doesn't mean I'm broadcasting from my parent's basement. I'll put my work up against anyone's on this board and any of the average sportscasters in Milwaukee without hesitation. You are a useless pustule.
Quote from: AWegrzyn17 on December 04, 2010, 09:47:38 PM
You are ridiculous. How many times have you seen Newbill play? Against what competition? Who else is on the floor with him? You simply can't compare Vander and DJ at this stage, and it will be difficult to ever really get a feel for what DJ would have done at MU since So Miss simply isn't in the same category.
As I watched the Ole Miss vs Southern Miss game tonight - in some ways I thought both teams looked better than our team. We will win this year, but it may be winning ugly - meaning getting to the free throw line a ton..not scoring a lot in in our halfcourt sets. Southern Miss is a good mid major team.
As for the Newbill vs. Blue debate - you can just watch the 2 players and see at present Newbill looks to be the better player. He's got a great looking shot, very physical presence, good basketball IQ (Vander does too) - but he's just a very polished looking player for a freshman..Vander is probably a better "athlete" but at this point Newbill looks to be the better player. Newbill has very good athleticism, however.
Quote from: bradforster on December 04, 2010, 10:06:03 PM
I'll put my work up against anyone's on this board and any of the average sportscasters in Milwaukee without hesitation.
I'd bet that most people would take the other Brad on this board over your 'work'.
Quote from: bradforster on December 04, 2010, 09:44:49 PM
No solid player with a penchant for hitting the boards would be buried on an average roster.
Brad, we get it....you think newbill is great and was wronged by buzz. Turn the page.
Sounds like he's better off where he is anyway. Now go away
How does he compare to Gasser?
Brad, no offense intended but it seems a little too coincidental that you only comment/post/talk in threads about Newbill. I get that you like him, but what's the deal? It only makes your posts seem biased and unfounded.
As for the whole Blue vs. Newbill debate, I would hold off on putting your life's savings into Newbill stock. Not saying he isn't a better player now but, actually, that's exactly what I'm saying. Better scorer, maybe, but offense does not a player solely make.
And 5Years has it right, I would take the other Brad too.
Chicos must have stepped out tonight or he would have chimed in by now.
Blue started on the gold medal winning national team. He's at a whole different level.
Quote from: bradforster on December 04, 2010, 09:36:58 PM
As for Jamil Wilson...Oregon misses him about as much as ESPN does Joe Theismann on it's football telecasts. He's another average player who couldn't find his way around the court in year one.
Newbill looked pretty good on a below average team -- seeing Wilson play this summer, and with a year of Buzz workouts ahead of him, I think Wilson is going to be a pretty special player with a much bigger upside than Newbill. Blue plays some pretty staunch D for a freshman. I think his all-around game will evolve as well. Kudos to Newbill, but I think Buzz made the right choice for MU.
Many here know that I'm a fanboy of Buzz and MU...rarely am I critical of any player in our program, or anything about our program. It says something about Newbill for me to say that from watching Newbill tonight and Vander in our 7 games so far - coupled with the stats Newbill has put up thus far - being objective...Newbill does look to be better RIGHT NOW. Vander may have a higher ceiling, possibly...but sometimes some kids are late bloomers, and are underrated by the scouting services etc. Such as Jimmy B, DJO, Davante Gardner. Just because Vander is a 5 star and played on the US under 18 team does not mean that he is currently better than a guy like Newbill.
Newbill looks like a really good player right now..and his stats have been consistent..some of which have come against BCS teams like Ole Miss and South Florida. He is a very solid defender - they moved him over to guard Nick Williams the last 8 minutes of the game and he shut him down. This kid can play. Period.
Quote from: Ners on December 04, 2010, 11:08:18 PM
Newbill looks like a really good player right now..and his stats have been consistent..some of which have come against BCS teams like Ole Miss and South Florida. ::)
REALLY? BCS teams in football maybe, but the Bulls will be fodder with Depaul. Ole Miss isn't going to set any records in the SEC either.
Quote from: Ners on December 04, 2010, 11:08:18 PM
He is a very solid defender - they moved him over to guard Nick Williams the last 8 minutes of the game and he shut him down. This kid can play. Period.
Agree. Saw the game. I would still take Blue for this MU team, at this time. Vander seems like a freshman going through typical growing pains of an upper level Big East team. Newbill seems like one of the better players on a mid-level team that looks to him in spots. Different scenarios, but I think Newbill is buried on our bench. He is in a much better scenario for his skill set. Good luck to him.
Quote from: bradforster on December 04, 2010, 09:19:22 PM
I predict Newbill has a better college career than Vander Blue.
Well, Draftexpress has Vander going 17th overall in the 2012 NBA Draft. So if that holds up, technically, Newbill will end up with a more productive college career. So I guess we really got screwed on this one.
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2012/
Quote from: Hamostradamus on December 04, 2010, 11:38:09 PM
Well, Draftexpress has Vander going 17th overall in the 2012 NBA Draft. So if that holds up, technically, Newbill will end up with a more productive college career. So I guess we really got screwed on this one.
http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2012/
If Vander is going to leave MU after his soph. season and get picked in the 1st round of the NBA draft, his game will have to improve about a billion percent over the next year. So far, he looks at best like an average freshman at the major college level. WI high school basketball just isn't that good and never has been.
Quote from: jtrash37 on December 04, 2010, 11:17:04 PM
REALLY? BCS teams in football maybe, but the Bulls will be fodder with Depaul. Ole Miss isn't going to set any records in the SEC either.
Fair enough point..but we can also say Vander and MU haven't faced the stiffest of competition yet - take away Duke and Gonzaga of course. We'll get to see how it all plays out over the next four years...I certainly don't want this to come off as being "down" on Vander in anyway..as I think he will be a very good player...but this is all more of a statement as to just how good of player Newbill looks to be...he didn't look anything like a freshman out there tonight..commentators (Mark Gottfried said as much) and his coach said he's the best freshman he's ever had..Eustachy's had some players in his time too.
Quote from: Freeport Warrior on December 04, 2010, 11:18:34 PM
Agree. Saw the game. I would still take Blue for this MU team, at this time. Vander seems like a freshman going through typical growing pains of an upper level Big East team. Newbill seems like one of the better players on a mid-level team that looks to him in spots. Different scenarios, but I think Newbill is buried on our bench. He is in a much better scenario for his skill set. Good luck to him.
Agreed. Good luck to Newbill. Brad, it's kind of a lost cause with your preaching here. Newbill looks like a solid player, but no need to bash they guys we have now. Thanks for your previous assessments, but I didn't expect all your bitterness.
Brad sounds like a bitter old man. It's like newbill is his son. Glad to see newbill doing well but I would definitely take all the freshman on our roster over him.
I wish people would put these stupid threads to rest.
So newbill is a nontraditional gasser?
Dude, why you up so early? Or are you just crawlin' into the crib?
How dare any of you criticize "In Buzz we Trust". We all know from the many posts here that Newbill screwed everything up, and Buzz did nothing wrong. And even if he did, which nobody better dare believe, he has learned from it and "moved on".
And do not dare to criticize Vander, even though he did not win POY in Wisconsin--those people did not know what they were voting on.
Some posters are probably right that the long term effects from the Newbill fiasco will destory any chance for a Philly pipeline. But fear not, we have the Texas pipeline (Otule, Williams, Fulce, etc.) Oh JFB is also from Texas.
Some of those Texas players will work out.
But don't get confused, according to all here, it was Newbill that messed up.
Wow, DJ Newbill over Vander Blue and Jamil Wilson?
Dont quit your day job, Brad. It was nice of you to stop by.
Wait...no it wasnt.
I'd put my money on blue. Just because he hasn't put up huge numbers doesn't mean he's not going to be a great player for us. Newbill is in an entirely different situation down there. And I think it's pretty safe to say that newbill wouldn't have started let alone made the USA team. There's a reason blue started for the gold
Medal winning team even if you haven't seen it yet. Ill go out on a limb and say blue also has some very impressive performances come big east play.
Quote from: esotericmindguy on December 04, 2010, 10:28:59 PM
Brad, we get it....you think newbill is great and was wronged by buzz. Turn the page.
Sounds like he's better off where he is anyway. Now go away
He's a Marquette fan and entitled to his opinion.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 04, 2010, 10:54:03 PM
Chicos must have stepped out tonight or he would have chimed in by now.
I was at a comedy benefit (Noreen Frasier cancer benefit) at Nokia theatre last night...Garry Shandling, Sarah Silverman, BJ Novak, Russel Brand,Aziz Ansari, Bob Saget, Patton Oswalt, etc....hilarious time.
Hopefully I dropped enough names there. Gene Simmons at the table next to ours which was a hoot.
One thing in watching Newbill that I don't think people take into account in comparison to Vander is the competition they played against the last four years. Wisconsin hoops has come a long way, but I'd bet everything I own that Newbill has played against tougher foes in Philly than Vander has.
As a result, Newbill looks better right now. What happens the remaining 3 years we will have to see. Wilson, by the way, did not look good last year for Oregon. To his benefit, their coach left a lot to be desired.
Brad, welcome back. Stick around. I know why you left as we had a few email conversations. For some here, you can only be a Marquette fan if you say certain things. Kind of sad, but it's good to have someone here that is every bit as passionate as anyone else, loves MU (like you do) and can have an opinion and stand by it (just be prepared as you will be bludgeoned for having an opinion that some don't agree with).
Peace
Quote from: WarriorHal on December 05, 2010, 01:37:47 AM
If Vander is going to leave MU after his soph. season and get picked in the 1st round of the NBA draft, his game will have to improve about a billion percent over the next year. So far, he looks at best like an average freshman at the major college level. WI high school basketball just isn't that good and never has been.
From what I have seen of Vander so far, he will be playing in Europe not the NBA. There is no place in the NBA for 6-3 guards who cannot shoot.
I always thought Newbill was dropped for another reason besides talent. I could see him being dropped for talent (I still would have not agreed with it) if he signed in November and did not progress. I just cannot see signing a player in April and dropping him in July, because of talent. That part makes no sense to me. I agree that between Roseboro and Newbill Buzz has blown off Phily.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 05, 2010, 11:08:15 AM
He's a Marquette fan and entitled to his opinion.
Actually, he's entitled to his opinion whether he's a Marquette fan or not.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 05, 2010, 11:41:32 AM
Actually, he's entitled to his opinion whether he's a Marquette fan or not.
Correct, but for some people they need reminding that he loves MU as much as anyone and isn't here trolling. The request by some posters here that he go away is what I'm talking about.
Quote from: Ners on December 04, 2010, 11:08:18 PM
Many here know that I'm a fanboy of Buzz and MU...rarely am I critical of any player in our program, or anything about our program. It says something about Newbill for me to say that from watching Newbill tonight and Vander in our 7 games so far - coupled with the stats Newbill has put up thus far - being objective...Newbill does look to be better RIGHT NOW. Vander may have a higher ceiling, possibly...but sometimes some kids are late bloomers, and are underrated by the scouting services etc. Such as Jimmy B, DJO, Davante Gardner. Just because Vander is a 5 star and played on the US under 18 team does not mean that he is currently better than a guy like Newbill.
Newbill looks like a really good player right now..and his stats have been consistent..some of which have come against BCS teams like Ole Miss and South Florida. He is a very solid defender - they moved him over to guard Nick Williams the last 8 minutes of the game and he shut him down. This kid can play. Period.
+1.
Anyone who doesn't see it that way .. is clouded by the circumstances when MU gave Newbill's spot to Wilson and the vitriol of the debate that commenced.
I don't get why so many are worried about DJ Newbill? He's at a D1 school, good luck to him.
Quote from: mupanther on December 05, 2010, 12:05:09 PM
I don't get why so many are worried about DJ Newbill? He's at a D1 school, good luck to him.
I agree. He's doing well for himself...most likely playing a lot more than he would have at MU and making the most of it. Good for him. Hopefully he'll have a great career.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 05, 2010, 11:13:16 AM
I was at a comedy benefit (Noreen Frasier cancer benefit) at Nokia theatre last night...Garry Shandling, Sarah Silverman, BJ Novak, Russel Brand,Aziz Ansari, Bob Saget, Patton Oswalt, etc....hilarious time.
Hopefully I dropped enough names there. Gene Simmons at the table next to ours which was a hoot.
Thanks for the invite, Bro. I was was home watching the tube and eating my pb & J sandwich.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 05, 2010, 11:59:32 AM
Correct, but for some people they need reminding that he loves MU as much as anyone and isn't here trolling. The request by some posters here that he go away is what I'm talking about.
Your saying that "he loves Marquette as much as anyone" doesn't make it so, nor does someone saying he's become an MU hater due to the Newbill incident make it so. I don't know and you don't know, regardless of the two of you becoming pen pals. You've lectured us (those who don't accept the Newbill camp's version as ex cathedra) on our ethical shortcomings while wrapping yourself in the cloak of righteousness. Mr Forster (who clearly has a horse in this race) agrees with you. Good for you. But please, no more lectures.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 05, 2010, 12:52:20 PM
Your saying that "he loves Marquette as much as anyone" doesn't make it so, nor does someone saying he's become an MU hater due to the Newbill incident make it so. I don't know and you don't know, regardless of the two of you becoming pen pals. You've lectured us (those who don't accept the Newbill camp's version as ex cathedra) on our ethical shortcomings while wrapping yourself in the cloak of righteousness. Mr Forster (who clearly has a horse in this race) agrees with you. Good for you. But please, no more lectures.
And we've been lectured that no matter what the Newbill camp is saying, they must be liars (their family, the kid himself, the coaches) and I don't recall you ONCE calling those people out. Not once....does the cloak of righteousness only apply to one side? Seems so in your mind.
Quote from: 4everwarriors on December 05, 2010, 12:12:18 PM
Thanks for the invite, Bro. I was was home watching the tube and eating my pb & J sandwich.
My beautiful wife attended with me....next time. ;)
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 05, 2010, 01:32:13 PM
And we've been lectured that no matter what the Newbill camp is saying, they must be liars (their family, the kid himself, the coaches) and I don't recall you ONCE calling those people out. Not once....does the cloak of righteousness only apply to one side? Seems so in your mind.
If anyone had ever said "that no matter what the Newbill camp is saying they must be liars" I would agree that they should be called out. I don't recall that. What I do recall is that people were skeptical that the entire Newbill camp was totally blindsided by events that Buzz had publically spoken about and this board had discussed for a long time. It was (and still is) hard for me to believe that casual readers of this board knew (or could at least surmise) more about the Newbill situation than Newbill or anyone in his camp. That any Marquette fan without an axe to grind would swallow that story hook, line and sinker I found curious. Still do.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 05, 2010, 11:08:15 AM
He's a Marquette fan and entitled to his opinion.
And I'm entitled to ask him to go away. Thanks.
Pretty sad what happened to him. I watched that 40 minute video on gomarquette where Buzz starts crying while looking at the player board and says " these are my guys". If he honestly cared about kids that much he would've never cut DJ like that.
Quote from: bradforster on December 04, 2010, 09:36:58 PM
Odds on what? Newbill vs. Overhyped Blue? I don't need any odds. I've seen both of them play and I'm certainly not impressed with Vander's goofy looking jumper. As for Jamil Wilson...Oregon misses him about as much as ESPN does Joe Theismann on it's football telecasts. He's another average player who couldn't find his way around the court in year one.
Hell hath no fury like a fanboy scorned.
This is mob mentality. Brad took a beating last spring, re: his Newbill coverage, and it even seemed to be highlighted by the MU athletic dept, when they posted that no-contacting-the-recruits boilerplate. Whether or not is was improper, I didn't sense intentional interference or malice from Brad anywhere. Just the opposite: More like journalism. So when the drama unfolded, of course the MU faithful lined up behind MU. In my opinion, the MU athletic dept post implied meddling, and the fanbase seemed more than willing to pile on. It's probably just coincidence, bad luck, etc, that the recruit who lost his scholarship happened to have a champion. Anyway, I think Brad got the short end of the stick last spring, and I'm glad to hear from him. And I"m glad to hear that DJ's doing well too.
Quote from: MOwarrior on December 05, 2010, 06:30:34 PM
This is mob mentality. Brad took a beating last spring, re: his Newbill coverage, and it even seemed to be highlighted by the MU athletic dept, when they posted that no-contacting-the-recruits boilerplate. Whether or not is was improper, I didn't sense intentional interference or malice from Brad anywhere. Just the opposite: More like journalism. So when the drama unfolded, of course the MU faithful lined up behind MU. In my opinion, the MU athletic dept post implied meddling, and the fanbase seemed more than willing to pile on. It's probably just coincidence, bad luck, etc, that the recruit who lost his scholarship happened to have a champion. Anyway, I think Brad got the short end of the stick last spring, and I'm glad to hear from him. And I"m glad to hear that DJ's doing well too.
I was a critic as much as anyone around here regarding the Newbill situation. However, Brad making derogatory comments about Blue and Wilson when they had nothing to do with the situation that occured? Does not sound like "more like journalism" as you state. Sounds like someone bitter and quite biased. Usually a trait I avoid when reading "journalists".
I see your point, and I agree. But I'd be bitter too, that's all I'm saying. I thought he was one of the most generous/selfless posters on here, and ended up just getting hammered.
It is early to make judgments on Newbill, but all I know so far is that Newbill looks really good and has played better than any of our freshmen. Regardless of how he ended up not attending Marquette, if he turns out to be a stud, Buzz deserves criticism for losing him. Buzz's record on recruits is mixed at best and he is on the hook for how this one comes out.
Quote from: MOwarrior on December 05, 2010, 06:30:34 PM
This is mob mentality. Brad took a beating last spring, re: his Newbill coverage, and it even seemed to be highlighted by the MU athletic dept, when they posted that no-contacting-the-recruits boilerplate. Whether or not is was improper, I didn't sense intentional interference or malice from Brad anywhere. Just the opposite: More like journalism. So when the drama unfolded, of course the MU faithful lined up behind MU. In my opinion, the MU athletic dept post implied meddling, and the fanbase seemed more than willing to pile on. It's probably just coincidence, bad luck, etc, that the recruit who lost his scholarship happened to have a champion. Anyway, I think Brad got the short end of the stick last spring, and I'm glad to hear from him. And I"m glad to hear that DJ's doing well too.
The great irony was when DJ committed everyone loved Brad's original videos. Couldn't get enough of them. More more more.
Then when he got cut, Brad followed up and the wolves were on him. Pretty sad. I'd be upset, too, if I were him. He's an MU grad with the best of intentions....when the content was feeding the fanboys, he was Golden. When the content (after DJ was cut) had the nuts to question the other side of the story, he became the targeted.
Cura Personalis.
What's the slur that is appropriate for those who slur people with the term "fanboy"?
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 05, 2010, 08:17:11 PM
What's the slur that is appropriate for those who slur people with the term "fanboy"?
Hater?
Quote from: Jacks DC on December 05, 2010, 07:42:23 PM
It is early to make judgments on Newbill, but all I know so far is that Newbill looks really good and has played better than any of our freshmen. Regardless of how he ended up not attending Marquette, if he turns out to be a stud, Buzz deserves criticism for losing him. Buzz's record on recruits is mixed at best and he is on the hook for how this one comes out.
Not sure I'd classify Buzz's recruiting record as mixed at best - considering we have more Top 100 players in the program currently than at any other time in the program's history. No coach bats 100% on all of the recruits they bring in..this year's freshman class has a long time to grow up yet. Next year's team could be quite special with Wilson joining the fold and every other player gaining one year of experience.
Quote from: bradforster on December 04, 2010, 09:19:22 PM
Newbill would offer Marquette something it desperately needs; a tenacious rebounder. He's got a nose for the basketball and has been a beast on the boards this young season. He's especially adept at snaring rebounds on the offensive end. Buzz missed the boat on this one and killed what could have been a terrific pipeline to the Philly area. At least two four star recruits from Philly were interested in attending the Elite Camp and soured on the program after DJ was jettisoned. One has already signed with Nova. Buzz could have had himself a nice connection to a basketball rich area. I'm afraid that's gone. By the way, I predict Newbill has a better college career than Vander Blue.
It would be tough for Newbill to grab rebounds from MU's bench.
Also, the whole notion that Buzz "killed" the chances of MU landing players from Philly is completely ludicrous. Just this past week there was a thread about a recruit who's considering MU and is from Philly. Maybe he hadn't heard the Newbill story yet. Besides, who says that landing one kid who likely wouldn't have gotten much PT each of the next couple seasons would have results in a "pipeline."
I understand that you're bitter because things didn't work out between your boy and your alma mater but give it a rest. The slight journalistic integrity that you had is dissolving with each of your posts.
Quote from: Ners on December 05, 2010, 08:37:51 PM
Not sure I'd classify Buzz's recruiting record as mixed at best - considering we have more Top 100 players in the program currently than at any other time in the program's history.
Huh? That's not accurate
blah blah blah blah
:D
Quote from: Ners on December 05, 2010, 08:37:51 PM
Not sure I'd classify Buzz's recruiting record as mixed at best - considering we have more Top 100 players in the program currently than at any other time in the program's history. No coach bats 100% on all of the recruits they bring in..this year's freshman class has a long time to grow up yet. Next year's team could be quite special with Wilson joining the fold and every other player gaining one year of experience.
He has brought in some high profile recruits who may turn out to be great, but the program was in very good shape when he took over. In the limited time he's been at the helm, there have been several recruiting mistakes mixed in with the successes - Roseboro, Maymon, Mbao, Newbill. That's a mixed record if you ask me.
Quote from: Jacks DC on December 06, 2010, 07:59:07 AM
He has brought in some high profile recruits who may turn out to be great, but the program was in very good shape when he took over. In the limited time he's been at the helm, there have been several recruiting mistakes mixed in with the successes - Roseboro, Maymon, Mbao, Newbill. That's a mixed record if you ask me.
There was a great senior class in place when he took over. And one stud junior. But circumstances left him with two empty classes, which is not indicative of a program in very good shape.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 04, 2010, 10:00:57 PM
Be nice. Brad is a huge fan of this average Marquette team. Just not a "fanboy" like some of us.
hahahaha I was thinking the same thing!
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 05, 2010, 11:59:32 AM
Correct, but for some people they need reminding that he loves MU as much as anyone and isn't here trolling. The request by some posters here that he go away is what I'm talking about.
Hmm...really?
Troll (Internet) In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
Quote from: bradforster on December 04, 2010, 09:19:22 PMBy the way, I predict Newbill has a better college career than Vander Blue.
Quote from: bradforster on December 04, 2010, 09:36:58 PMOdds on what? Newbill vs. Overhyped Blue? I don't need any odds. I've seen both of them play and I'm certainly not impressed with Vander's goofy looking jumper. As for Jamil Wilson...Oregon misses him about as much as ESPN does Joe Theismann on it's football telecasts. He's another average player who couldn't find his way around the court in year one.
Quote from: bradforster on December 04, 2010, 09:44:49 PMNo solid player with a penchant for hitting the boards would be buried on an average roster.
Quote from: bradforster on December 04, 2010, 10:06:03 PMI'll put my work up against anyone's on this board and any of the average sportscasters in Milwaukee without hesitation. You are a useless pustule.
Those are Brad's four posts in this thread. I think it's safe to say each and every one is an instance of trolling. The thread was started to point out that Newbill is doing well for himself at Southern Miss. That's it. So what does Brad do?
Well, he starts by slamming Buzz's recruiting, which I suppose is fair for the topic, but then also slams Vander Blue. Umm...why? Blue's recruiting had absolutely nothing to do with Newbill. Both were scheduled to come here at the same time, and could have both been playing on this team. Brad is lashing out just to lash out.
Then he continues to slam Blue and adds Wilson into the mix. Okay, we did part ways with Newbill at the same time we added Wilson, but the two are completely different players. And if we are going to assume that Buzz and only Buzz was in the wrong, why is it necessary to attack Jamil Wilson, a kid who wanted to get home to be closer to his family and seems to have no ill will towards Brad, DJ, or anyone else?
Next he decides to go after everyone else at Marquette, saying they have an "average roster". Maybe he missed it by being gone the past few months, but it's pretty safe to say this is the deepest roster Marquette has had in years, and it's proving out on the court. Nine guys are averaging double-digit minutes, and every eligible scholarship player is averaging 7+ minutes. Tack on six guys averaging 8+ points per game and eight guys averaging 3+ rebounds per game and I think it's safe to say that if Newbill were here, he'd have to earn his minutes and that there's be plenty of stiff competition for them.
Finally, yes, jfmu did insult him, and Brad has the right to respond. The work he presented here was good and much appreciated, and anyone who said otherwise would be lying. However, instead of just going after the person who insulted him, he pretty much says he's better than any sportscaster in Milwaukee, and "useless pustule" seems more than a bit over the top.
I'll agree completely that when Brad first showed up with videos, we were grateful. I also agree that he did good work on them and helped build excitement around Newbill. However, what happened happened. There's nothing anyone on this board did to instigate it, nor anything we can do to change the past. Coming on here and attacking the Marquette players, coaching staff, and fans is not the way to prove you are ready to move on as a member of the Marquette community.
And MU grad or not, bradforster is a troll. Every post he has put in here is trolling for a response. So until he decides to mature a bit and carry himself as a responsible poster, I see no reason anyone in this thread or on this site should treat him as anything other than what he has become...
(http://livingonthecostadelsol.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/webtroll.jpg?w=315&h=325)
Quote from: MOwarrior on December 05, 2010, 06:30:34 PM
This is mob mentality. Brad took a beating last spring, re: his Newbill coverage, and it even seemed to be highlighted by the MU athletic dept, when they posted that no-contacting-the-recruits boilerplate. Whether or not is was improper, I didn't sense intentional interference or malice from Brad anywhere. Just the opposite: More like journalism. So when the drama unfolded, of course the MU faithful lined up behind MU. In my opinion, the MU athletic dept post implied meddling, and the fanbase seemed more than willing to pile on. It's probably just coincidence, bad luck, etc, that the recruit who lost his scholarship happened to have a champion. Anyway, I think Brad got the short end of the stick last spring, and I'm glad to hear from him. And I"m glad to hear that DJ's doing well too.
Truth
People need to back off Brad. Frankly, I don't blame him for having an attitude about things.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 06, 2010, 10:38:25 AM
Hmm...really?
Troll (Internet) In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into a desired emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.
Those are Brad's four posts in this thread. I think it's safe to say each and every one is an instance of trolling. The thread was started to point out that Newbill is doing well for himself at Southern Miss. That's it. So what does Brad do?
Well, he starts by slamming Buzz's recruiting, which I suppose is fair for the topic, but then also slams Vander Blue. Umm...why? Blue's recruiting had absolutely nothing to do with Newbill. Both were scheduled to come here at the same time, and could have both been playing on this team. Brad is lashing out just to lash out.
Then he continues to slam Blue and adds Wilson into the mix. Okay, we did part ways with Newbill at the same time we added Wilson, but the two are completely different players. And if we are going to assume that Buzz and only Buzz was in the wrong, why is it necessary to attack Jamil Wilson, a kid who wanted to get home to be closer to his family and seems to have no ill will towards Brad, DJ, or anyone else?
Next he decides to go after everyone else at Marquette, saying they have an "average roster". Maybe he missed it by being gone the past few months, but it's pretty safe to say this is the deepest roster Marquette has had in years, and it's proving out on the court. Nine guys are averaging double-digit minutes, and every eligible scholarship player is averaging 7+ minutes. Tack on six guys averaging 8+ points per game and eight guys averaging 3+ rebounds per game and I think it's safe to say that if Newbill were here, he'd have to earn his minutes and that there's be plenty of stiff competition for them.
Finally, yes, jfmu did insult him, and Brad has the right to respond. The work he presented here was good and much appreciated, and anyone who said otherwise would be lying. However, instead of just going after the person who insulted him, he pretty much says he's better than any sportscaster in Milwaukee, and "useless pustule" seems more than a bit over the top.
I'll agree completely that when Brad first showed up with videos, we were grateful. I also agree that he did good work on them and helped build excitement around Newbill. However, what happened happened. There's nothing anyone on this board did to instigate it, nor anything we can do to change the past. Coming on here and attacking the Marquette players, coaching staff, and fans is not the way to prove you are ready to move on as a member of the Marquette community.
And MU grad or not, bradforster is a troll. Every post he has put in here is trolling for a response. So until he decides to mature a bit and carry himself as a responsible poster, I see no reason anyone in this thread or on this site should treat him as anything other than what he has become...
(http://livingonthecostadelsol.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/webtroll.jpg?w=315&h=325)
Post of the Day.
Game. Set. Match.
Quote from: Ners on December 05, 2010, 08:37:51 PM
Not sure I'd classify Buzz's recruiting record as mixed at best - considering we have more Top 100 players in the program currently than at any other time in the program's history. No coach bats 100% on all of the recruits they bring in..this year's freshman class has a long time to grow up yet. Next year's team could be quite special with Wilson joining the fold and every other player gaining one year of experience.
really?
Quote from: mug644 on December 04, 2010, 09:51:26 PM
How's Newbill's defense? In Buzz's system, guys (especially freshmen) earn playing time on the defensive end of the floor. It's been plenty acknowledged that Blue is earning his playing time on that end, and that his offense is not as strong. If he was at MU, would Newbill be getting as much playing time as Jamail Jones?
Considering how poor of a defensive team MU is this season, and how much Freshmen are playing, I'm not sure I would continue to suck down this particular straw of coachspeak. In time it may bear out but for now its not the case.
Regarding Newbill's defense, he's a starting guard on a team that I believe ranks top 10 nationally in FG% defense (if I recall correctly from the telecast) so he must be doing something right to claim that as a Frosh.
Quote from: 2002MUalum on December 05, 2010, 08:17:46 PM
Hater?
Exactly. But I'll choose the "Cura Personalis" route and not go there.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 06, 2010, 11:38:24 AM
Exactly. But I'll choose the "Cura Personalis" route and not go there.
Is that greek for hater or something?
Brew...I'd go back and read some of Brad's original posts when Buzz recruited, then signed DJ. He is anything but a troll. Everything requires context and when you're limiting your entire evaluation on someone based on a few posts, or even parts of a post, that's dangerous. That's what happens here all the time and leads to outrageous claims like "the vast majority of your posts about Buzz" are negative, when factually that is so incorrect it's laughable. But that's what people do here.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 06, 2010, 12:56:25 PM
Brew...I'd go back and read some of Brad's original posts when Buzz recruited, then signed DJ. He is anything but a troll. Everything requires context and when you're limiting your entire evaluation on someone based on a few posts, or even parts of a post, that's dangerous. That's what happens here all the time and leads to outrageous claims like "the vast majority of your posts about Buzz" are negative, when factually that is so incorrect it's laughable. But that's what people do here.
Chicos...I'd get off your high horse and go back and read the definition of trolling as well as brew's last paragraph. He sums things up quite nicely and you're obviously missing his point.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 06, 2010, 09:32:59 AM
There was a great senior class in place when he took over. And one stud junior. But circumstances left him with two empty classes, which is not indicative of a program in very good shape.
Buzz inherited a full roster of 13 scholarship players (actually 14 scholarships committed). He lost three (Nick Williams, Tyshawn Taylor and Scott Christopherson), and signed two (Jimmy Butler and Liam McMorrow) due to the transition.
Oliver Purnell and Steve Lavin inherited programs not in very good shape. I'm sure either one of them would have killed to have future NBA picks on their roster the day they took over.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on December 06, 2010, 01:08:46 PM
Chicos...I'd get off your high horse and go back and read the definition of trolling as well as brew's last paragraph. He sums things up quite nicely and you're obviously missing his point.
+1. Fans morph into haters all the time. Issue arise and they take sides. Because of the "breakup", some longtime Favre fans now hate him. On the other side, there's even a few Packer fans who left the team over it. I have no doubt that Brad was a fan of the program. I also have no doubt that Brad was (and is) a much bigger fan of a) Brad and b) DJ. For now, anyway, being a fan of the program appears to be incompatible with a) and b). Hence the hate for Vander and the rest of the players. For now anyway, he's definitely a troll.
Quote from: Marquette84 on December 06, 2010, 02:07:42 PM
Buzz inherited a full roster of 13 scholarship players (actually 14 scholarships committed). He lost three (Nick Williams, Tyshawn Taylor and Scott Christopherson), and signed two (Jimmy Butler and Liam McMorrow) due to the transition.
Oliver Purnell and Steve Lavin inherited programs not in very good shape. I'm sure either one of them would have killed to have future NBA picks on their roster the day they took over.
Disengenous as usual. Saying that Buzz "inherited" Nick Williams, Taylor, Christopherson or Mbakwe is as fair as saying Crean inherited star players like Crawford at Indiana (actually less fair in Williams and Taylors case). Total nonsense. Misleading bs. Your specialty.
Quote from: Marquette84 on December 06, 2010, 02:07:42 PM
Buzz inherited a full roster of 13 scholarship players (actually 14 scholarships committed). He lost three (Nick Williams, Tyshawn Taylor and Scott Christopherson), and signed two (Jimmy Butler and Liam McMorrow) due to the transition.
Oliver Purnell and Steve Lavin inherited programs not in very good shape. I'm sure either one of them would have killed to have future NBA picks on their roster the day they took over.
There was only one future NBA pick on the roster: Lazar. And depending on your timeframe, you can judge the team Buzz inheritited differently. The team was very good for that coming season but wasn't built for future success. Overall, though, I'd agree he walked into a decent situation, having talented/experienced upperclassmen he could rely on while he was getting his feet wet as head coach.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on December 06, 2010, 01:08:46 PM
Chicos...I'd get off your high horse and go back and read the definition of trolling as well as brew's last paragraph. He sums things up quite nicely and you're obviously missing his point.
Thanks for the advice. I read Brew's points but I disagree with what he and you are saying in terms of the definition used. He did not start the thread and many of his comments were in response to someone else's question...he gave his opinion. Now, you and others may not like that opinion, but that's how he feels. A troll typically goes out and starts his\her own threads or goes off topic within a thread to try and reel in a response. That's not what he did in most of the thread, but rather ANSWERED questions that people put to him.
Thus, I do not agree that it fits under the definition of a troll. I got Brew's point just fine, but I do not agree it fits into the definition of what a typical (dare say Traditional) troll does.
That's the difference in my mind. Sorry if I missed the point YOU wanted me to get Merrit, but I don't see it the way it was portrayed. Brad's first response in the thread was level headed, he felt Buzz missed a great Philly pipeline, talked of two kids that canceled on the MU Elite camp as a result and then stated an opinion that Newbill would have a better career. Then, like clockwork, the attacks started on the guy. He responded in kind.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 06, 2010, 02:11:39 PM
+1. Fans morph into haters all the time. Issue arise and they take sides. Because of the "breakup", some longtime Favre fans now hate him. On the other side, there's even a few Packer fans who left the team over it. I have no doubt that Brad was a fan of the program. I also have no doubt that Brad was (and is) a much bigger fan of a) Brad and b) DJ. For now, anyway, being a fan of the program appears to be incompatible with a) and b). Hence the hate for Vander and the rest of the players. For now anyway, he's definitely a troll.
Where do you guys get the idea he "hates" Vander? All he said is he thinks he's overrated and that Newbill will have a better career. Two opinions. Now, whether Vander is overrated to me is probably to early to tell, but I can certainly make a case supporting that position if need be. I believe a few national journalists have greeted his initial play as milquetoast. Does that mean they hate him, too? Personally, I think Vander's defense is very good, he's athletic as hell and generally playing pretty well as a Freshman. I didn't expect much from him this year and even warned a few folks here when they were talking out of their minds craziness during the Summer that he's only a freshman. That being said, there are certainly some kids rated on par where he was that are off to "better" starts, depending on how you define that.
You guys play way too much psychiatrist on intent or real meaning of people's opinions. He thinks Newbill will be better than Vander and believes Vander is overrated...that does not mean he HATES Vander.
Actually, I've found most trolls like threadjacking. They go in, attack people in a given thread with off-topic and inflammatory remarks, then sit back and see what responses they get. This thread was about Newbill. Dare I say, it was made in a complimentary fashion to a player that showed a great deal of interest in Marquette but landed elsewhere. I don't think there was anything negative in this thread in regards to either DJ or Brad before he came in and started dishing on Vander, who has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion, and Wilson, who certainly isn't responsible for the way things went down.
Again, I was one of the people thankful to Brad when he showed up, but the thread was created to give some credit to Newbill, not to discredit Buzz (as Brad did) or this now "invisible" Philly pipeline (despite us still getting interest from Philly players), and certainly not to slam Vander, who committed to Marquette before DJ was even in the picture. If Brad wasn't a troll, he would have said his piece about DJ, maybe even about Buzz, then left it at that. But when he added his snide little "Oh, by the way, DJ's better than VB" comment, he instantly vaulted himself to Internet Troll status. It was uncalled for, off-topic, and frankly one of the most blatant bitch moves he could have made.
If Brad wants to grow up and apologize for bringing VB and Wilson into a discussion they didn't belong in, fine. If he wants to profile future MU prospects (from a distance, don't want to violate NCAA rules) and share that with us, again, I'm happy with that. From a professional standpoint, he does a good job and I'm sure has a lot to offer. But if all he wants to do is dredge up the same topic and use it as a way to attack the program, players, and coaching staff every time he bothers to stop by, then as far as I'm concerned, he can log right off for good and go to hell.
In addition, is it any surprise that he just "happens" to show up and start posting again when someone makes a Newbill thread? I highly doubt it. Another common troll characteristic, they frequently check a message board they want to antagonize and jump into discussions when others start them. My guess is Brad checks this site once to twice a week, looking for moments like this when he can attack. Either he monitors the site for Newbill threads, or he just happened to log on the one time someone actually made one. Which sounds more likely?
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 06, 2010, 02:28:10 PM
Thus, I do not agree that it fits under the definition of a troll. I got Brew's point just fine, but I do not agree it fits into the definition of what a typical (dare say Traditional) troll does.
When you say that it doesn't fit into the definition of "what a
typical troll does" then you're changing the definition that brew posted. He gave the definition of a troll, a definition that fits Brad to a T on this thread, but since his actions don't fit those of a "typical troll," then you discount it. Actually, I shouldn't be surprised since this is pretty
typical behavior from you, Chicos.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 06, 2010, 02:46:23 PM
tl ; dr
Brad has been turned into a pariah for the Newbill situation. He is not the only one that thinks Buzz screwed up.
(official Henry position - Buzz made a mistake. Wilson is an upgrade. Don't make a habit of it). If Forster wants to have an attitude about people ganging up on him, then good show. Doesn't make him a troll.
Really, what you and MerrittsMustache and LennysTap and others are doing is bullying. You are shouting him down, and Chicos down, and ganging up on what he says. It's distasteful.
Maybe Newbill will turn out to have a better career than Blue and/or Wilson. Hardly a crazy statement. I will say that Newbill wouldn't have had such an impact at Marquette, though. Because Buzz can't develop freshmen.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 06, 2010, 02:28:10 PM
Brad's first response in the thread was level headed, he felt Buzz missed a great Philly pipeline, talked of two kids that canceled on the MU Elite camp as a result and then stated an opinion that Newbill would have a better career.
This part I was kind of confused about in what he said, maybe someone that follows it a bit more can help me out, but I didn't think MU had an elite camp this summer.
Quote from: cheebs09 on December 06, 2010, 03:35:50 PM
This part I was kind of confused about in what he said, maybe someone that follows it a bit more can help me out, but I didn't think MU had an elite camp this summer.
They did not due to NCAA rules, I believe.
MU did not have an elite camp this summer.
Quote from: Henry Sugar on December 06, 2010, 03:16:57 PM
Because Buzz can't develop freshmen.
Although I'm starting to lean that way, I wonder if there's enough data yet to reach that conclusion.
Will be interesting to see how Vander's playing come late February/March.
Brew, I'm curious how a discussion on Newbill and his future wouldn't involve Wilson from time to time. Newbill was cut because of Wilson. So I'm puzzled when you say Brad brought him in for no reason as if from out in left field. How are the two NOT married....one player was cut so the other player could be here.
Just asking
My guess, by the way, is that he probably visits the board occasionally and has been laying low due to the treatment he got. Then he saw that thread and chimed in. He's closer to the Newbill situation than 99% of us here because he's heard the other side of the story.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on December 06, 2010, 03:10:59 PM
When you say that it doesn't fit into the definition of "what a typical troll does" then you're changing the definition that brew posted. He gave the definition of a troll, a definition that fits Brad to a T on this thread, but since his actions don't fit those of a "typical troll," then you discount it. Actually, I shouldn't be surprised since this is pretty typical behavior from you, Chicos.
So that I understand, a troll is defined then based on what one does in a few posts or in a thread, not overall actions?
Quote from: RJax55 on December 06, 2010, 03:47:07 PM
Although I'm starting to lean that way, I wonder if there's enough data yet to reach that conclusion.
Yeah, I know. I was just saying that to get a response.
/troll
There has been some confusion as to why there was no MU Elite Camp this year... now it all makes sense.
The bountiful Philly pipeline that was filled up with treasures bailed out on us. Just didn't have enough interested talent.
Quote from: Henry Sugar on December 06, 2010, 03:16:57 PM
Brad has been turned into a pariah for the Newbill situation. He is not the only one that thinks Buzz screwed up. (official Henry position - Buzz made a mistake. Wilson is an upgrade. Don't make a habit of it). If Forster wants to have an attitude about people ganging up on him, then good show. Doesn't make him a troll.
Really, what you and MerrittsMustache and LennysTap and others are doing is bullying. You are shouting him down, and Chicos down, and ganging up on what he says. It's distasteful.
Maybe Newbill will turn out to have a better career than Blue and/or Wilson. Hardly a crazy statement. I will say that Newbill wouldn't have had such an impact at Marquette, though. Because Buzz can't develop freshmen.
+1.
I agree with every single word of this.
Quote from: Henry Sugar on December 06, 2010, 03:16:57 PM
Brad has been turned into a pariah for the Newbill situation. He is not the only one that thinks Buzz screwed up. (official Henry position - Buzz made a mistake. Wilson is an upgrade. Don't make a habit of it). If Forster wants to have an attitude about people ganging up on him, then good show. Doesn't make him a troll.
Really, what you and MerrittsMustache and LennysTap and others are doing is bullying. You are shouting him down, and Chicos down, and ganging up on what he says. It's distasteful.
Maybe Newbill will turn out to have a better career than Blue and/or Wilson. Hardly a crazy statement. I will say that Newbill wouldn't have had such an impact at Marquette, though. Because Buzz can't develop freshmen.
Those are fightin' words.
You better keep your head on a swivel.
Quote from: Henry Sugar on December 06, 2010, 03:16:57 PM
Brad has been turned into a pariah for the Newbill situation. He is not the only one that thinks Buzz screwed up. (official Henry position - Buzz made a mistake. Wilson is an upgrade. Don't make a habit of it). If Forster wants to have an attitude about people ganging up on him, then good show. Doesn't make him a troll.
Really, what you and MerrittsMustache and LennysTap and others are doing is bullying. You are shouting him down, and Chicos down, and ganging up on what he says. It's distasteful.
Maybe Newbill will turn out to have a better career than Blue and/or Wilson. Hardly a crazy statement. I will say that Newbill wouldn't have had such an impact at Marquette, though. Because Buzz can't develop freshmen.
Sugar, I love your numbers and I often love your insights, but you totally lose me here. First of all, the idea that anyone (even a large group of anyones) could ever shout down the board's resident shouter is absurd. As for ganging up on or bullying him - huh? My opinions are my own and I don't check with anyone else for support or valedation. Chicos often finds himself arguing with several people at once. I'd say that's on him, not me and 20 or 30 (or more) others on the board.
Quote from: Henry Sugar on December 06, 2010, 03:16:57 PMBrad has been turned into a pariah for the Newbill situation. He is not the only one that thinks Buzz screwed up. (official Henry position - Buzz made a mistake. Wilson is an upgrade. Don't make a habit of it). If Forster wants to have an attitude about people ganging up on him, then good show. Doesn't make him a troll.
Really, what you and MerrittsMustache and LennysTap and others are doing is bullying. You are shouting him down, and Chicos down, and ganging up on what he says. It's distasteful.
Maybe Newbill will turn out to have a better career than Blue and/or Wilson. Hardly a crazy statement. I will say that Newbill wouldn't have had such an impact at Marquette, though. Because Buzz can't develop freshmen.
Personally, I'm not trying to gang up on Brad. I'm just calling a spade a spade. As I've said multiple times in this thread, I appreciate what Brad did during the Newbill recruitment. I thought he did a good job, and most everyone else on this site agreed with that. However, he came in and began trolling. When he was accused of being a troll by some, yet not a troll by others, all I did was explain, point by point, why what he was doing was trolling to a tee.
I don't think there was any need to bash on Blue or Wilson. If Brad wants to applaud Newbill's solid start at Southern Miss, so be it. I agree with anyone who wants to do that. When Newbill moved on, I wished him the best, and I sincerely meant it then as I do now. However, when you come in and attack Blue, who definitely doesn't deserve it, and Wilson, who I'm sure didn't plan to push Newbill out, I think that's uncalled for.
Again, if Brad wants to come back and contribute, I welcome him to it. But if he's going to offer nothing but vindictive posts, then I say move on.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 06, 2010, 04:04:57 PMBrew, I'm curious how a discussion on Newbill and his future wouldn't involve Wilson from time to time. Newbill was cut because of Wilson. So I'm puzzled when you say Brad brought him in for no reason as if from out in left field. How are the two NOT married....one player was cut so the other player could be here.
Sure, Wilson's arrival signalled Newbill's departure, but does that call for an attack on Wilson? If Brad wants to blame Buzz, so be it. My thought was that Buzz made a mistake, I wasn't happy with how it played out, and that I hope he learns from the mistake and we don't see another situation like this any time in the near future. If other people can't forgive and move on, then I suppose that's their prerogative, but blame Buzz, don't blame and attack Wilson. He's what, a 20-year-old kid who just wanted a chance to play basketball closer to his family? While he's part of a situation that is germane to the argument, attacking him and his abilities is uncalled for, and I feel well within my rights to call someone out for that.
And all that said, I still wish the best for Newbill. I'm really glad to see he's had such a positive start at Southern Miss, and think this is one more indicator that Buzz has a pretty good eye for talent. Had Newbill landed at Marquette, I'm sure he would have contributed before too long, because it's clear he's got some measure of talent. It didn't work out here, but my guess is that in the long run, it will end up better for both Marquette
and Newbill. You'd think that would make some people happy...but I guess not :-\
Quote from: cheebs09 on December 06, 2010, 03:35:50 PM
This part I was kind of confused about in what he said, maybe someone that follows it a bit more can help me out, but I didn't think MU had an elite camp this summer.
They didn't, but a crackerjack journalist never let's an inconvenient fact get in the way of a good story.
Quote from: Lennys Tap on December 06, 2010, 05:12:07 PM
Chicos often finds himself arguing with several people at once.
It's always the same core 5 or 6 people....takes two to tango Lenny. It's not a one way conversation, just remember that.
Quote from: brewcity77 on December 06, 2010, 05:16:24 PM
It didn't work out here, but my guess is that in the long run, it will end up better for both Marquette and Newbill. You'd think that would make some people happy...but I guess not :-\
Hopefully it does. I hate seeing kids have to settle for a school that was never even in their faintest dreams because of something like this. Whether that's Newbill, Saunders, etc....I'm happy he got a full ride at a DI school, but it's sad that he's basically going somewhere he had no intention of ever going to.
Hopefully it does all work out in the long run.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on December 06, 2010, 05:34:09 PM
It's always the same core 5 or 6 people....takes two to tango Lenny. It's not a one way conversation, just remember that.
Always the same 5 or 6 people? In this thread it's been Merritt, Brew City and me. Off the top of my head, the list includes Pakuni, Ready2Fly, Jay Bee, Salsa Man, Canadian Dimes, ATL Warrior, Ners and Navin. And that's barely scratching the surface - there are many, many more.
It all boils down to this: some of us have a mostly positive view of the program. Because of that we're accused of being "fanboys" and su**ing the coach's c**k. Others (like yourself) take a more negative view and because of that are called "haters" and even once a sabotuer. We scream that we are realistic fans and that your accusations are ridiculous. You scream the same thing back at us.
We'll never agree and that's ok. I don't, however, think it's okay to suggest that you have God and everything that is Marquette on your side while those who disagree with you are your moral inferiors. Guess I missed that part of the Cura Personalis you picked up at MU.
Nor is it ok for you to believe you have God and everything that is Marquette on your side and to suggest if we don't drink all the Kool-Aid we hate MU, hate Buzz, blah blah....takes two to tango.
That remains the problem, you apply one standard for yourselves and a different one for others. I'm guilty of it as well....no problem admitting that.
Yes, the core 5 to 6 people are the same...you, Ners, Jay Bee, etc. It's like the bat signal goes off. Its funny to watch.
Salsa Man has about 130 posts total on this board and you're counting him? Please. Ready2Fly is rarely here either, only to attack certain posters. Merrit does the same thing. LC Dutchman...complete fraud...as are others like Dimes...sure you want to count them...how many times...which one of their usernames do you count? Etc. I especially like the ones where all their creation dates are on the same day...hmm. ::)
rocky's edit: anonymized. c'mon chicos - it may be publicly available, but it's their choice to use a username.
Chicos, don't ever use my real name again. You don't know me, and what does it prove? That you're an expert internet stalker?
My viewpoint is this: no one disagrees that Newbill had talent. Had Brad left it at that, he wouldn't have been attacked.
Also, check out Kemba Walker and Wesley Matthews' freshman year stats. Some on this board would have taken the Gasser and Newbill equivalent over those two at the same point in their careers and called them overrated. That would have been dumb.
In fact, go back and delete my name from your post. It's completely unnecessary. You wonder why everyone thinks you're a complete tool?
Quote from: Ready2Fly on December 06, 2010, 07:01:46 PM
Chicos, don't ever use my real name again. You don't know me, and what does it prove? That you're an expert internet stalker?
My viewpoint is this: no one disagrees that Newbill had talent. Had Brad left it at that, he wouldn't have been attacked.
Also, check out Kemba Walker and Wesley Matthews' freshman year stats. Some on this board would have taken the Gasser and Newbill equivalent over those two at the same point in their careers and called them overrated. That would have been dumb.
Stalker...hardly...it's in your profile on your page here for everyone to see. You answered a question on whether you wanted your name publicly open. You obviously did or you wouldn't have checked that box. Not my fault. I can only act on what you have allowed people to view.
Have you ever gone back and read your 500 posts and what an unusually large number in which you are totally obsessed with someone? Talk about stalking.
No one disagrees Newbill had talent? Really....better go back and read the threads here when he was cut...plenty of people ripping on his talent and the ripping got worse the longer it played out. So I disagree, your statement is incorrect.
I sick of this s#1t! If you guys can't discuss basketball without attacking each other, then don't click post!
Yet another thread locked.
Quote from: rocky_warrior on December 06, 2010, 07:17:21 PM
I sick of this s#1t! If you guys can't discuss basketball without attacking each other, then don't click post!
Yet another thread locked.
CO FREAKING SIGN.
Now I know what this thread was talking about.
http://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=22710.0;topicseen
>:(