Some good news and some bad news in there.
http://ilprepbullseye.com/page54.html
Good news is that he is coming to Midnight Madness.
Bad news is potential academic issues.
What is the cut-off score on the ACT and SAT? I thought it was an 18 on the ACT, maybe?
So, I think TheRock is simply stating the obvious.
Quote from: TheRock on September 30, 2010, 04:07:51 PM
Yea because what the clowns on here, including myself, say matters when it comes down to recruiting. You need to check your self-awareness.
It has been proven in the past that current players, coaches, and possibly recruits do visit this message board. I'm not saying it matters to them, but they do see it.
Quote from: goodgreatgrand on September 30, 2010, 04:09:17 PM
What is the cut-off score on the ACT and SAT? I thought it was an 18 on the ACT, maybe?
So, I think TheRock is simply stating the obvious.
A. It's a sliding scale depending on what the kid's GPA is.
B. The ACT score used by the NCAA is the sum of the four sections, not an average.
Quote from: Pakuni on September 30, 2010, 04:22:29 PM
B. The ACT score used by the NCAA is the sum of the four sections, not an average. Good thing you're not insulting the intelligence of others. That might prompt someone here to question your own.
I'm confused. Wouldn't an average or the sum be comparable?
I have no idea how it works but for better understanding say there is 4 sections worth 100 each. Now you say you need a sum of 320. But someone says you need an average of 80. Isn't it the same thing? Or are the sections weighted differently?
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on September 30, 2010, 04:26:51 PM
I'm confused. Wouldn't an average or the sum be comparable?
I have no idea how it works but for better understanding say there is 4 sections worth 100 each. Now you say you need a sum of 320. But someone says you need an average of 80. Isn't it the same thing? Or are the sections weighted differently?
I think the difference is that the sum gives a certain a whole number to match alongside the sliding scale (see link below), whereas an average wouldn't necessarily.
Of course, I suppose the NCAA could just add decimal points to the scale, but apparently they've decided it's easier dealing with whole numbers.
http://web5.ncaa.org/ECWR2/NCAA_EMS/pdf/Quick_Reference_Sheet_for_IE_Standards-6-18-09.pdf
Lol now I am even more confused. ACT score of 37-86? How does that work? I'm not that old, thought the test was up to 36?
Reading between the lines, it sounds like his family likes West Virginia and his AAU coaches like Marquette. Depaul fans like Depaul and Illinois fans like Illinois.
My guess is that he does fine on his ACT and ends up at West Virginia. (cue the John Denver music)
Quote from: Pakuni on September 30, 2010, 03:54:09 PM
Some good news and some bad news in there.
http://ilprepbullseye.com/page54.html
This is a red herring, a ridiculous report. There's nothing in this article, or in any that I've read about Shaw, suggesting the kid struggles as a student. Calling out Shaw's test cadence is a non-starter from a reporter who must be bored. For example where is the evidence that this
"is something that is of huge concern to all of the schools that remain finalists in the Shaw recruiting sweepstakes"?
Truth is, no kid from the 2011 class can/will qualify before the end of their high school tenure anyway. BTW there are 12 more test dates for the ACT/SAT during this academic year.
Quote from: NYWarrior on September 30, 2010, 04:43:42 PM
This is a red herring, a ridiculous report. There's nothing in this article, or any that I've read about Shaw, that suggests the kid struggles as a student. Calling out Shaw's test cadence is a non-starter from a reporter who must be bored looking for an angle that isn't there.
I'm not sure that was their intent, to be honest. The Shaw recruitment has been one of the more secretive ones I can remember, and has led to a lot of insinuations of foul play (mainly from our friends in Champaign-Urbana).
I think they meant to dispel those rumors by giving the reason it has gone slowly. Not sure how effective it was.
Quote from: nyg on September 30, 2010, 03:58:41 PM
Good news is that he is coming to Midnight Madness.
Bad news is potential academic issues.
After reading the article, I would also say there's "potential" that he decides to give up basketball completely and focus on becoming an internationally renowned flautist.
I don't tin it's much of an issue. If his grades are go now, then he will be fine, and as said bove, there are plenty of dates to still take the ACT, multiple times as most students do anyway.
Quote from: Eford4President2012 on September 30, 2010, 04:41:04 PM
Reading between the lines, it sounds like his family likes West Virginia and his AAU coaches like Marquette. Depaul fans like Depaul and Illinois fans like Illinois.
My guess is that he does fine on his ACT and ends up at West Virginia. (cue the John Denver music)
Agree that reading between the lines..it sounds like his AAU coaches favor MU - as who else could be called "most influential?" That said, I'd rather be in our position than DePaul's, or Illinois! Looks like it will be head to head with Huggy Bear on this one. What parents see in that guy is beyond me. Truthfully, almost none of his kids EVER graduate, his teams are classic flame outs in the NCAA. Granted he took WVU to Elite 8 this year..but prior to that..his KState and Cincy teams always flamed out. I think 1 Final Four maybe in 1992? Seems I recall many surprise exits of his Cincy teams. His NCAA tourney record isn't that great...plus..getting to WVU to see a game, versus hopping in the car to drive 80 miles to MKE?
Quote from: MUfan12 on September 30, 2010, 04:55:30 PM
I'm not sure that was their intent, to be honest. The Shaw recruitment has been one of the more secretive ones I can remember, and has led to a lot of insinuations of foul play (mainly from our friends in Champaign-Urbana).
I think they meant to dispel those rumors by giving the reason it has gone slowly. Not sure how effective it was.
Correct. There have been several schools and fans making these claims and not just with the Shaw recruitment, but also with Dawson and others. The question becomes this, is it sour grapes or is it legitimate?
As far as the Bullseye report, one of them eluded to this on the Illini board a few days ago. I thought the implication was that he would likely go to WVU if some of these waiting issues were to go away, at least that was my first impression. I may have read it wrong.
Quote from: TheRock on September 30, 2010, 03:59:10 PM
Why would he wait so long to take the test? Is he just that dumb? Sounds like he is getting terrible advice.
TheRock
You have thrown a lot of bs around this board in the short time you have been here. I won't tell you to delete your account like Ners, but you should seriously think about some of the stuff you put onto the internet.
Quote from: MarkCharles on September 30, 2010, 05:46:30 PM
TheRock
You have thrown a lot of bs around this board in the short time you have been here. I won't tell you to delete your account like Ners, but you should seriously think about some of the stuff you put onto the internet.
more restraint will be shown
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 30, 2010, 05:19:37 PM
Correct. There have been several schools and fans making these claims and not just with the Shaw recruitment, but also with Dawson and others. The question becomes this, is it sour grapes or is it legitimate?
I think it's mainly grapes. Look at Dawson- The rumors of improprieties were from MSU fans, and lo and behold, he ended up at MSU. Fact is, the majority of this stuff comes from Big Tweleven schools.
I'm not losing any sleep over it.
Quote from: TheRock on September 30, 2010, 05:51:02 PM
more restraint will be shown
According to IWB, somewhat recent comments on a message board impacted a recruit's (I believe his family's) opinion of Marquette, in a bad way. Take that as you will, but IWB brings a ton of info with him in his posts, interviews recruits, etc.
This is public domain, people do read it. Calling anyone an idiot when you have very little information on a subject is...well...not what I would do. I'm not saying every single post will have an impact, but if you act like an ass in the second or third comment in a thread under a recruits name, maybe you cast Marquette fans in a negative light?
Quote from: Tmreddevil on September 30, 2010, 06:32:01 PM
According to IWB, somewhat recent comments on a message board impacted a recruit's (I believe his family's) opinion of Marquette, in a bad way. Take that as you will, but IWB brings a ton of info with him in his posts, interviews recruits, etc.
This is public domain, people do read it. Calling anyone an idiot when you have very little information on a subject is...well...not what I would do. I'm not saying every single post will have an impact, but if you act like an ass in the second or third comment in a thread under a recruits name, maybe you cast Marquette fans in a negative light?
Newbil? ;D
Quote from: NYWarrior on September 30, 2010, 04:43:42 PM
This is a red herring, a ridiculous report. There's nothing in this article, or in any that I've read about Shaw, suggesting the kid struggles as a student. Calling out Shaw's test cadence is a non-starter from a reporter who must be bored. For example where is the evidence that this "is something that is of huge concern to all of the schools that remain finalists in the Shaw recruiting sweepstakes"?
Truth is, no kid from the 2011 class can/will qualify before the end of their high school tenure anyway. BTW there are 12 more test dates for the ACT/SAT during this academic year.
Thank you. When I read that I thought that it was late, but hardly unheard of.
Quote from: Ners on September 30, 2010, 05:16:24 PM
Agree that reading between the lines..it sounds like his AAU coaches favor MU - as who else could be called "most influential?"
Which, even if we don't end up with Shaw, means that Buzz has done major work in Chicago...and hopefully that will pay off for us down the road.
Couldn't it be possible that he's waiting on the ACT or SAT because he's not all the worried about it? Maybe he is a pretty smart kid and with his GPA he doesn't need a great score and feel he will do well on it. I mean he's taken an ACT practice test so it's not like he isn't thinking about it at all. I found it surprising he hasn't taken either yet, but didn't think it meant he had academic issues. He could, but that isn't the only conclusion someone can jump to. I haven't read about any academic issues, and if there are it is usually brought up when a recruit is discussed, and there hasn't been anything brought up that I know of.
Quote from: TheRock on September 30, 2010, 05:51:02 PM
more restraint will be shown
Thanks, and good. Unfortunately, recruits do visit message boards and will use it as a way to gauge the type of fans we are.
Quote from: Tmreddevil on September 30, 2010, 06:32:01 PM
According to IWB, somewhat recent comments on a message board impacted a recruit's (I believe his family's) opinion of Marquette, in a bad way. Take that as you will, but IWB brings a ton of info with him in his posts, interviews recruits, etc.
This is public domain, people do read it. Calling anyone an idiot when you have very little information on a subject is...well...not what I would do. I'm not saying every single post will have an impact, but if you act like an ass in the second or third comment in a thread under a recruits name, maybe you cast Marquette fans in a negative light?
Why don't you just say who it is? Is it Newbill? I hate how the Scout board works, with everyone super secretive in eluding to what kind of information is being talked about on the premium board.
Newbill would make sense, but Id like to know if something was said that turned off another recruit, and what that was.
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 30, 2010, 07:00:10 PM
Why don't you just say who it is? Is it Newbill? I hate how the Scout board works, with everyone super secretive in eluding to what kind of information is being talked about on the premium board.
Newbill would make sense, but Id like to know if something was said that turned off another recruit, and what that was.
Bottom line is, if IWB said it happened, it happened. If it happened once it can happen again.
Which begs the question if the recruit \ family is upset about a comment, how will this recruit \ family do during a season, four seasons, road games in hostile environments, the newspaper writing a story that says the player struggled, etc?
I thought we were only recruiting mentally tough players.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 30, 2010, 07:39:50 PM
I thought we were only recruiting mentally tough players.
Nice touch. There is no 'we' when you post on this board, guy.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on September 30, 2010, 07:39:50 PM
Which begs the question if the recruit \ family is upset about a comment, how will this recruit \ family do during a season, four seasons, road games in hostile environments, the newspaper writing a story that says the player struggled, etc?
I thought we were only recruiting mentally tough players.
Good point. But I do think some of it may have to do with these are some of your most loyal, active, engaged, and, in general, older fans. There parents still see their kids as kids, so I think some of it has to do with people making judgements and accusations before they even got to the school.
I think it would feel strange to see yourself being talked about so freely by anonymous people online, at any age.
I think one of the moderators needs to delete a few of the posts in this thread. What contribution is made by hurling insults? I get tired of reading insults repeatedly made between the same posters. And, to read an anonymous poster insult a kid they've never met is offensive.
Finally, if repeat offenders can't clean up their act - they need to be banned. The are offering nothing positive to the board anyway.
Everything I have read says that Mike Shaw would be an incredible addition to our program. In my opinion, he is THE single most important recruit we are currently in the running for. I say this because of what he brings, it closely matches exactly what the team needs. I, and the vast majority of MU fans, would love to see Mike commit to Marquette.
Some posts deleted. My notes....
Ners & Rock - cut it out. Or you'll both have to find another place to be "clowns" (The Rock's words).
94Warrior - listen, we've got enough sheriff's in town, but we're not watching posts 24/7. If something bugs you, click the "report to moderator" button, and we'll take a look at it. However, I don't stand behind you and tell you how to do your job, so no need to rail on us if you haven't already clicked the "report to moderator" link.
Sorry that I hadn't had a chance to read posts since noon today....geesh!
apologies to all, lets get this season started so we have something good to talk about!
Back to Shaw's recruitment. I've got to admit I just don't get what impresses people about Huggins. Last year we lost that Minnesota center (I think his name was Noreen) to him. Back in the Bearcat days I could see Huggins getting "his" type of player. He recruited a lot of kids with "checkered" pasts. It was pretty obvious that "the warden" was willing to look the other way on anything that occurred off the court. There certainly wasn't much pressure to make progress towards graduation. His teams had that bad boy Oakland Raiders kind of aura. They pretty much ran C-USA and were top 10 every year. Huggins was the bad-est dude and in everybody's face. It all kind of worked together for that kind of kid.
But since he went to UWV the aura is gone. He's just another Big East coach. But what does he tell these families? "Well I used to recruit a bunch of x-cons and play'em until their eligibility ran out but now I've seen the error of my ways and I'm a changed man"
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 30, 2010, 07:00:10 PM
Why don't you just say who it is? Is it Newbill? I hate how the Scout board works, with everyone super secretive in eluding to what kind of information is being talked about on the premium board.
Newbill would make sense, but Id like to know if something was said that turned off another recruit, and what that was.
Ask Vander how the WI boards made him feel...
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 30, 2010, 07:00:10 PM
Why don't you just say who it is? Is it Newbill? I hate how the Scout board works, with everyone super secretive in eluding to what kind of information is being talked about on the premium board.
Because it doesn't matter who it is. If connected people like IWB said it happens, we need to take him at his word. In fact, it's best that he doesn't say who because all people are going to do is draw battle lines.
Kind of an odd place to be. If you were told that between Huggy and Buzz, a recruit's family liked one and his AAU coaches the other, who would you have thought preferred whom?
Dont get me wrong, this doesn't mean anything at all, just kind of surprising.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on September 30, 2010, 10:14:25 PM
Back to Shaw's recruitment. I've got to admit I just don't get what impresses people about Huggins. Last year we lost that Minnesota center (I think his name was Noreen) to him. Back in the Bearcat days I could see Huggins getting "his" type of player. He recruited a lot of kids with "checkered" pasts. It was pretty obvious that "the warden" was willing to look the other way on anything that occurred off the court. There certainly wasn't much pressure to make progress towards graduation. His teams had that bad boy Oakland Raiders kind of aura. They pretty much ran C-USA and were top 10 every year. Huggins was the bad-est dude and in everybody's face. It all kind of worked together for that kind of kid.
But since he went to UWV the aura is gone. He's just another Big East coach. But what does he tell these families? "Well I used to recruit a bunch of x-cons and play'em until their eligibility ran out but now I've seen the error of my ways and I'm a changed man"
I cannot believe you are making me do this, but I think Huggins is an excellent coach and I can see why players and their families love him. Has he taken risks on players? No doubt. But he has had plenty of players go through his program that are academically talented as well. And you mention off the court issues. Really, have there been all that many under Huggies at any of his stops? Honestly I don't consider his programs as dirty recruiting wise or filled with off the court issues. And I don't know how he can be called "another BE coach." He got to the final four last year. We all love Dixon here, but he has never got to the final four.
And I don't know how serious either side was in the Noreen recruitment. I thought Buzz moved on.
"And you mention off the court issues. Really, have there been all that many under Huggies at any of his stops?"
His time at Cincinnati involved athletes with off the court issues his entire tenure. Not to mention an abysmal graduation rate.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 01, 2010, 08:12:17 AM
I cannot believe you are making me do this, but I think Huggins is an excellent coach and I can see why players and their families love him. Has he taken risks on players? No doubt. But he has had plenty of players go through his program that are academically talented as well. And you mention off the court issues. Really, have there been all that many under Huggies at any of his stops? Honestly I don't consider his programs as dirty recruiting wise or filled with off the court issues. And I don't know how he can be called "another BE coach." He got to the final four last year. We all love Dixon here, but he has never got to the final four.
And I don't know how serious either side was in the Noreen recruitment. I thought Buzz moved on.
Per CBS sports report
"Village police in Fairfax, just east of Cincinnati, released a police cruiser video showing Huggins' field sobriety test, which police said he failed.
Huggins had slurred speech, and there was vomit on the driver's door when he was stopped, the police report said. His car was towed, the report said, and Huggins' wife came to pick him up from the police station.
Huggins was scheduled to appear Friday night in mayors court in Fairfax, but that was postponed.
Police Chief Rick Patterson said it was Huggins' first offense. He could be fined and sentenced to three days in jail.
Huggins' arrest is the latest black mark on a program that has been trying to get beyond a series of player arrests and NCAA rules violations in the 1990s that led to probation and a loss of scholarship"
Just Sayin
Quote from: PE8983 on October 01, 2010, 08:26:11 AM
"And you mention off the court issues. Really, have there been all that many under Huggies at any of his stops?"
His time at Cincinnati involved athletes with off the court issues his entire tenure. Not to mention an abysmal graduation rate.
I know about his DUI...but honestly, while I know he had some players arrested, I don't think those issues extended over his "entire tenure." Regardless, his players have always loved the guy...I can see why people want to play for him.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 01, 2010, 08:54:56 AM
I don't think those issues extended over his "entire tenure." Regardless, his players have always loved the guy...I can see why people want to play for him.
?
Here's a few of the folks arrested or kicked off the team for various things during Huggins' tenure: Art Long, Donald Little, Danny Fortson, Roy Bright, Eugene Land, Shawn Myrick, Jerome Harper, assistant coach Keith Legree ... not to mention that his Cincy program was nailed for NCAA violations (lack of institutional control) in 1998.
The problem was deep and pronounced during his entire tenure at Cincy -- http://sports.findlaw.com/basketball/tarnished/04/index.html ... and don't forget what great citizens several others were after leaving school (Corie Blunt, Darnell Burton, Dontonio Wingfield, Steve Logan).
OK...obviously I am wrong about the arrest issue...
Quote from: NYWarrior on October 01, 2010, 09:06:57 AM
?
Here's a few of the folks arrested or kicked off the team for various things during Huggins' tenure: Art Long, Donald Little, Danny Fortson, Roy Bright, Eugene Land, Shawn Myrick, Jerome Harper, assistant coach Keith Legree ... not to mention that his Cincy program was nailed for NCAA violations (lack of institutional control) in 1998.
The problem was deep and pronounced during his entire tenure at Cincy -- http://sports.findlaw.com/basketball/tarnished/04/index.html ... and don't forget what great citizens several others were after leaving school (Corie Blunt, Darnell Burton, Dontonio Wingfield, Steve Logan).
Don't forget Reuben Patterson.
Quote from: NYWarrior on October 01, 2010, 09:06:57 AM
?
Here's a few of the folks arrested or kicked off the team for various things during Huggins' tenure: Art Long, Donald Little, Danny Fortson, Roy Bright, Eugene Land, Shawn Myrick, Jerome Harper, assistant coach Keith Legree ... not to mention that his Cincy program was nailed for NCAA violations (lack of institutional control) in 1998.
The problem was deep and pronounced during his entire tenure at Cincy -- http://sports.findlaw.com/basketball/tarnished/04/index.html ... and don't forget what great citizens several others were after leaving school (Corie Blunt, Darnell Burton, Dontonio Wingfield, Steve Logan).
And it wasn't just at Cincy. Already at WVU, Cam Thoroughman was arrested and Joe Mazzulla has been arrested three separate times. The only place he didn't have off the court issues was K-State...and that's because he wasn't there long enough.
Quote from: bma725 on October 01, 2010, 09:23:01 AM
And it wasn't just at Cincy. Already at WVU, Cam Thoroughman was arrested and Joe Mazzulla has been arrested three separate times. The only place he didn't have off the court issues was K-State...and that's because he wasn't there long enough.
+1
If indeed there is a "segment of individuals most influential" in Shaw's recruitment who are favoring Marquette, you'd hope it would be his family given that the Univ. of Central Fla's Institute for Diversity and Ethics in Sports reports that the graduation rate for African-American men's basketball student athletes is 100% at Marquette and 30% at W. Va.
Marquette was one of a half-dozen schools with a 100% rate - there's a school in northern Indiana that did it as well.
Valpo?
"Regardless, his players have always loved the guy...I can see why people want to play for him."
They love him because he will make you a better basketball player on the court, and you don't have any accountability off the court (either in the classroom or on campus). Huggins didn't get fired at UC because of his coaching or because of his DUI. He got fired because Nancy Zimpher was tired of all of the players off court transgressions and academic performances over his tenure.
Quote from: bma725 on October 01, 2010, 09:23:01 AM
And it wasn't just at Cincy. Already at WVU, Cam Thoroughman was arrested and Joe Mazzulla has been arrested three separate times. The only place he didn't have off the court issues was K-State...and that's because he wasn't there long enough.
Kstate got a pretty good deal out of Huggins, looking back now. Jump started their program back, and didn't have to deal with all the other issues Huggins can bring.
Quote from: NYWarrior on October 01, 2010, 09:06:57 AM
?
Here's a few of the folks arrested or kicked off the team for various things during Huggins' tenure: Art Long, Donald Little, Danny Fortson, Roy Bright, Eugene Land, Shawn Myrick, Jerome Harper, assistant coach Keith Legree ... not to mention that his Cincy program was nailed for NCAA violations (lack of institutional control) in 1998.
The problem was deep and pronounced during his entire tenure at Cincy -- http://sports.findlaw.com/basketball/tarnished/04/index.html ... and don't forget what great citizens several others were after leaving school (Corie Blunt, Darnell Burton, Dontonio Wingfield, Steve Logan).
Jerome Harper was arrested before he ever arrived at Cincy, and Huggins pulled his scholarship offer after the arrest. Fortson and Long were acquitted, and what they arrested for was hardly the most serious of offenses. Legree also was acquitted.
And if we're going to hold programs accountable for every athlete arrest AFTER they leave, a lot of schools are going to look rogue. Heck, Michigan State may be the worst program of all (see: Burress, Vincent, Ingram, Rogers, Underwood, Rison, Cleaves, Randolph, etc.).
Not to say Huggins didn't bring in a lot of questionable characters over the years, but his reputation is worse than the reality. Essentially, you've listed seven arrests over 16 years, at least three of which led to acquittal. Hardly a sterling record, but I'd be willing to bet we could find similar numbers at plenty of programs who don't get nearly the cr@p Huggins does. Like our friends to the west, for example (see: Boo Wade, Roy Boone, Diamond Taylor, Jeremy Glover, Marcetteaus McGee, etc.)
Quote from: Aughnanure on September 30, 2010, 07:00:10 PM
Why don't you just say who it is? Is it Newbill? I hate how the Scout board works, with everyone super secretive in eluding to what kind of information is being talked about on the premium board.
Newbill would make sense, but Id like to know if something was said that turned off another recruit, and what that was.
I wasn't being super secretive, I don't know that much. I believe IWB also posted about this on the free board, but I could be mistaken about that.
I don't think it was Newbill, I believe it was before that whole situation took place. Don't know what was said. As for Chicos, yes, we may be recruiting mentally tough players, but I don't think a mentally tough mother/father/brother/coach is a requirement...and they do impact recruits' decisions. There Augh, you now know as much as I do.
Basically (to no one in particular) - remember that these are still young adults, don't be an ass towards/about them.
Quote from: Pakuni on October 01, 2010, 10:00:25 AM
Jerome Harper was arrested before he ever arrived at Cincy, and Huggins pulled his scholarship offer after the arrest. Fortson and Long were acquitted, and what they arrested for was hardly the most serious of offenses. Legree also was acquitted.
And if we're going to hold programs accountable for every athlete arrest AFTER they leave, a lot of schools are going to look rogue. Heck, Michigan State may be the worst program of all (see: Burress, Vincent, Ingram, Rogers, Underwood, Rison, Cleaves, Randolph, etc.).
Not to say Huggins didn't bring in a lot of questionable characters over the years, but his reputation is worse than the reality. Essentially, you've listed seven arrests over 16 years, only four of which led to acquittal. Hardly a sterling record, but I'd be willing to bet we could find similar numbers at plenty of programs who don't get nearly the cr@p Huggins does.
Sure not all convictions, which was not the point.
1) Legree got off on a technicality but let's face it - he was found passed out in his car in the left lane of a street. Of course that was just one of two DUIs for LeGree inside of 6 months back in 2005. Arguing that he was acquitted once does not mean much. Frankly, UC's zero tolerance policy for poor behavior -- which led to Legree's resignation -- was a direct result of the decade+ of embarrassments cause by the basketball program.
2) Long and Fortson were acquitted; sure, Art was just petting the police horse. But we know that Art was arrested and convicted for selling pot to an undercover cop while at his JUCO, yet Huggie still took him. While on campus Long pleaded guilty to momentarily choking his girlfriend. Re-read that.
3) Donald Little went to jail -- Cincy was lucky he didn't have Roy Bright's gun and wasn't inclined to sexual assault like Myrick (convicted)
4) Harper -- indicative of the kind of player Huggins attracted. And as we saw with Long -- the kind of player Huggins would have gladly taken if the situation had not become so toxic within the program.
5) Dontonio Wingfield was arrested (and pleaded guilty) just before showing up to UC for intimidating his mother and trashing her house. He was also charged with assaulting a pair of police officers.
6) 1998 team captain D'Juan Baker was sentenced to probation for hitting his girlfriend in the head with a flower pot and hitting her.
And of course there's more. How about Eugene Land jumping out of a window to avoid the cops and shredding his knee? Huggins is in a class(less) by himself. His reputation is well-earned...in fact, he's not judged harshly enough for the transgressions that occurred under his watch.
Here's the Cliffs Notes on his tenure at UC http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/stewart_mandel/03/22/huggins/1.html (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/stewart_mandel/03/22/huggins/1.html)
As for MSU -- that's another argument, you listed athletes from multiple sports who played for multiple coaches over literally decades. Cincy had the pleasure of cramming all this madness into the tenure of one coach.
Quote from: NYWarrior on October 01, 2010, 10:34:15 AM
As for MSU -- that's another argument, you listed athletes from multiple sports who played for multiple coaches over literally decades. Cincy had the pleasure of cramming all this madness into the tenure of one coach.
It may be a different argument, but it's one you raised when you said "and don't forget what great citizens several others were after leaving school."
Seriously, explain to me how Huggins and/or Cincy is somehow responsible for the criminal acts of one of his former players that, in many cases, happened long after the guy left campus. You blame Huggins for Corie Blount? Why not blame Phil Jackson? Or Dell Harris?
And I'm pretty sure the great majority of the MSU players I named were in East Lansing during some point of Huggins' Cincy tenure.
Quote from: Pakuni on October 01, 2010, 11:03:48 AM
It may be a different argument, but it's one you raised when you said "and don't forget what great citizens several others were after leaving school."
Seriously, explain to me how Huggins and/or Cincy is somehow responsible for the criminal acts of one of his former players that, in many cases, happened long after the guy left campus. You blame Huggins for Corie Blount? Why not blame Phil Jackson? Or Dell Harris?
And I'm pretty sure the great majority of the MSU players I named were in East Lansing during some point of Huggins' Cincy tenure.
not sure what u mean .. all of the examples I cited in that post (and the Mandel link) happened to players while they played for or were recruited by Huggins at UC.
On the 'what happens when they move on point' sure, he can't control that. But it is at least consistent that many of huggins' players were problematic before they got to campus, remained so on campus, and continued to be after they moved on. The latter is surely out of his control but consistent with the behavior and character tolerated at UC.
Quote from: Tmreddevil on October 01, 2010, 10:14:46 AM
I wasn't being super secretive, I don't know that much. I believe IWB also posted about this on the free board, but I could be mistaken about that.
I don't think it was Newbill, I believe it was before that whole situation took place. Don't know what was said. As for Chicos, yes, we may be recruiting mentally tough players, but I don't think a mentally tough mother/father/brother/coach is a requirement...and they do impact recruits' decisions. There Augh, you now know as much as I do.
Basically (to no one in particular) - remember that these are still young adults, don't be an ass towards/about them.
My comments were facetious in nature. I don't disagree with you, especially your last statement. I have certainly made generalizations about JUCOs in the past because of my personal bias that I shouldn't have.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 01, 2010, 08:12:17 AM
Really, have there been all that many under Huggies at any of his stops?
Sorry Sultan but you're on the wrong side of this one. They didn't call Huggins the Warden for nothing. I know several Bearcat fans who would have snickered at your statement.
Quote from: NotAnAlum on October 01, 2010, 01:34:03 PM
Sorry Sultan but you're on the wrong side of this one.
Uh...thanks....but if you read the whole thread, you'd find that I admitted as such about three hours ago.
Yes but I'm the guy you called out so I get to gloat. ;)
Quote from: Ners on September 30, 2010, 05:16:24 PM
Agree that reading between the lines..it sounds like his AAU coaches favor MU - as who else could be called "most influential?" That said, I'd rather be in our position than DePaul's, or Illinois! Looks like it will be head to head with Huggy Bear on this one. What parents see in that guy is beyond me. Truthfully, almost none of his kids EVER graduate, his teams are classic flame outs in the NCAA. Granted he took WVU to Elite 8 this year..but prior to that..his KState and Cincy teams always flamed out. I think 1 Final Four maybe in 1992? Seems I recall many surprise exits of his Cincy teams. His NCAA tourney record isn't that great...plus..getting to WVU to see a game, versus hopping in the car to drive 80 miles to MKE?
Anybody who asks such a question obviously didn't see WVU's elimination game last year.
After seeing what he did that game... my opinion of the guy has changed forever (I get a little emotional just replaying that scene in my head). Definitely more hugs and less bear -- maybe that's what these parents have seen for years while we're left to page through the blotters.
Quote from: Benny B on October 01, 2010, 02:29:13 PM
Anybody who asks such a question obviously didn't see WVU's elimination game last year.
After seeing what he did that game... my opinion of the guy has changed forever (I get a little emotional just replaying that scene in my head). Definitely more hugs and less bear -- maybe that's what these parents have seen for years while we're left to page through the blotters.
I think that is what I was trying to say...and I overeached. It's more than "they don't have accountability off the court," it's that he does seem to genuinely care for his players.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on October 01, 2010, 02:32:04 PM
I think that is what I was trying to say...and I overeached. It's more than "they don't have accountability off the court," it's that he does seem to genuinely care for his players.
Yep.
Also, I doubt many parents think about Art Long punching a horse 15 years ago or Jerome Harper getting into a fight with his stepdad or Corie Blunt getting busted with dope 15 years after he left Cincinnati and think "Gee, if Bob Huggins is my son's coach, the boy will turn into a criminal."
Huggins has taken many more risky players than most, and as a result he's been burned repeatedly and tarnished his reputation.
But to an extent, MU has been pretty fortunate over the years. Young men in college often do stupid, reckless things, and examples of it have popped up even at the "cleanest" of program involving kids with no trace of prior issues. We're lucky that MU hasn't seen more of these incidents, and the ones that have occurred havnen't been more public.
Quote from: Pakuni on October 01, 2010, 02:46:33 PM
Yep.
Also, I doubt many parents think about Art Long punching a horse 15 years ago or Jerome Harper getting into a fight with his stepdad or Corie Blunt getting busted with dope 15 years after he left Cincinnati and think "Gee, if Bob Huggins is my son's coach, the boy will turn into a criminal."
Huggins has taken many more risky players than most, and as a result he's been burned repeatedly and tarnished his reputation.
But to an extent, MU has been pretty fortunate over the years. Young men in college often do stupid, reckless things, and examples of it have popped up even at the "cleanest" of program involving kids with no trace of prior issues. We're lucky that MU hasn't seen more of these incidents, and the ones that have occurred havnen't been more public.
Well said
"Corie Blunt getting busted with dope"
He didn't just get busted with dope - the guy had 29 pounds of it. He's damn lucky he got a plea where it didn't include trafficking. All from a guy who majored in Criminal Justice at UC. Oh, the irony...
Quote from: Benny B on October 01, 2010, 02:29:13 PM
Anybody who asks such a question obviously didn't see WVU's elimination game last year.
After seeing what he did that game... my opinion of the guy has changed forever (I get a little emotional just replaying that scene in my head). Definitely more hugs and less bear -- maybe that's what these parents have seen for years while we're left to page through the blotters.
He had a 28% graduation rate at Cincy... I honesty believe some coaches will do anything to make their players graduate more because it makes the coach look good, but 28%...
Quote from: avid1010 on October 02, 2010, 08:40:58 AM
He had a 28% graduation rate at Cincy... I honesty believe some coaches will do anything to make their players graduate more because it makes the coach look good, but 28%...
It was that high?
Quote from: avid1010 on October 02, 2010, 08:40:58 AM
He had a 28% graduation rate at Cincy... I honesty believe some coaches will do anything to make their players graduate more because it makes the coach look good, but 28%...
Gary Williams had an 8 percent graduation rate at Maryland. Cal had a 20 percent rate last year under Mike Montgomery. Washington had a 29 percent rate under Lorenzo Romar.
None of these guys take 1/10 the flak that Huggins has.
I'm not suggesting Huggins doesn't deserve the criticism he gets, but he seems to get more of it than others who aren't doing much, or any, better.
Quote from: Brewtown Andy on October 02, 2010, 09:34:03 AM
It was that high?
According to this article...
http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/story/bob_huggins_just_win_baby (http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/story/bob_huggins_just_win_baby)
"As for academics, 27 of 95 Huggins' players graduated from Cincinnati or another university in his 16 years. That's a 28% graduation rate overall, including those students who transferred. Huggins also had four seasons where the NCAA reported the Cincinnati men's basketball graduation rate to be zero. Even at the time Huggins was forced to resign, again according to university officials, one of his players had been maintaining a 0.0 GPA, and another would have had a 0.0 if not for two incompletes."
Quote from: Pakuni on October 02, 2010, 09:36:11 AM
Gary Williams had an 8 percent graduation rate at Maryland. Cal had a 20 percent rate last year under Mike Montgomery. Washington had a 29 percent rate under Lorenzo Romar.
None of these guys take 1/10 the flak that Huggins has.
I'm not suggesting Huggins doesn't deserve the criticism he gets, but he seems to get more of it than others who aren't doing much, or any, better.
I think Huggins gets more of it from us because he is a direct comptitor for games and recruits. In addition, he has done a pretty good job getting in the news for bad stuff (DUI etc).
If a recruit wants a very good school academically, a true family environment, being coached by a very solid coach and staff, in one of the programs that has a solid history of basketball, with an extremely high gradution rate, MU is a great fit.
The only edge huggins would seem to have is that they just made a deep run and everyone saw huggins on tv concerned for an injured star.
Hopefully the shaw's will realize that MU is much better positioned to make a run during the coming years and has a much better history of taking care of all players who come here (from william gates to our superstars).
Wvu has a couple of fresh tv images pulling him that way, but I believe he will enjoy much more long-term success if he comes to MU.
Quote from: marquette99 on October 02, 2010, 10:06:22 AM
Hopefully the shaw's will realize that MU is much better positioned to make a run during the coming years
We are???
Quote from: Pakuni on October 02, 2010, 09:36:11 AM
Gary Williams had an 8 percent graduation rate at Maryland. Cal had a 20 percent rate last year under Mike Montgomery. Washington had a 29 percent rate under Lorenzo Romar.
None of these guys take 1/10 the flak that Huggins has.
I'm not suggesting Huggins doesn't deserve the criticism he gets, but he seems to get more of it than others who aren't doing much, or any, better.
I don't argue that...I just don't think kissing a player shows he cares for his players as much as a coach who gets his kids to graduate. Heck, I don't even mind a coach with lower graduation rates because he recruits players that are going to have a more difficult time graduating, but with the help these kids get, I don't believe Huggins is doing much to promote or enforce responsibility in respect to education. I've heard/read plenty of remarks from coaches that state their only objective is to help their players become better basketball players...not a fan of that approach.
I think some people are missing the point that there are a number of players that have ZERO intention of graduating and don't care about it. They are going to play basketball, do what is necessary to stay eligible and will bolt as soon as their eligibility is used up, usually before graduating. Some coaches are magnets for that type of player.
http://www.mysuburbanlife.com/hillside/statenews/x1305347345/Illini-recruit-Mike-Shaw-expected-to-visit-this-weekend
Shaw is visiting Illinois this weekend on an unofficial.
Quote from: Skatastrophy on October 02, 2010, 04:53:40 PM
http://www.mysuburbanlife.com/hillside/statenews/x1305347345/Illini-recruit-Mike-Shaw-expected-to-visit-this-weekend
Shaw is visiting Illinois this weekend on an unofficial.
How dare you post a link in this thread that is actually about Mike Shaw.
Quote from: ChicosBailBonds on October 02, 2010, 04:03:13 PM
I think some people are missing the point that there are a number of players that have ZERO intention of graduating and don't care about it. They are going to play basketball, do what is necessary to stay eligible and will bolt as soon as their eligibility is used up, usually before graduating. Some coaches are magnets for that type of player.
That was my point exactly...why are some coaches magnets for those types of players...because they allow it, maybe even promote it.
"Veronica Vaughn, so hot, want to touch the heine."
Eso, Bama, your posts we deleted.
All - I'm being nice and deleting things here during the off-season with warnings. During the season, you'll be immediately banned because there's too much conversation and the moderators don't have time to deal with your BS.
Please self moderate, or you'll be gone!
Quote from: rocky_warrior on October 03, 2010, 12:13:07 AM
Eso, Bama, your posts we deleted.
All - I'm being nice and deleting things here during the off-season with warnings. During the season, you'll be immediately banned because there's too much conversation and the moderators don't have time to deal with your BS.
Please self moderate, or you'll be gone!
If I were the one moderating a flamewar at 1am on a weekend there would have been permabans abound to go along with a rambling post bridging the majority of political and socio-economic issues plaguing our fine nation today.
Grats on not being me :P