Bullseye update on Shaw recruitment

[Bob "Big Daddy" Wild]

Why don't you just say who it is? Is it Newbill? I hate how the Scout board works, with everyone super secretive in eluding to what kind of information is being talked about on the premium board.

Newbill would make sense, but Id like to know if something was said that turned off another recruit, and what that was.

I wasn't being super secretive, I don't know that much.  I believe IWB also posted about this on the free board, but I could be mistaken about that.

I don't think it was Newbill, I believe it was before that whole situation took place.  Don't know what was said.  As for Chicos, yes, we may be recruiting mentally tough players, but I don't think a mentally tough mother/father/brother/coach is a requirement...and they do impact recruits' decisions.  There Augh, you now know as much as I do.

Basically (to no one in particular) - remember that these are still young adults, don't be an ass towards/about them.

[NYWarrior]

Jerome Harper was arrested before he ever arrived at Cincy, and Huggins pulled his scholarship offer after the arrest. Fortson and Long were acquitted, and what they arrested for was hardly the most serious of offenses. Legree also was acquitted.
And if we're going to hold programs accountable for every athlete arrest AFTER they leave, a lot of schools are going to look rogue. Heck, Michigan State may be the worst program of all (see: Burress, Vincent, Ingram, Rogers, Underwood, Rison, Cleaves, Randolph, etc.).

Not to say Huggins didn't bring in a lot of questionable characters over the years, but his reputation is worse than the reality. Essentially, you've listed seven arrests over 16 years, only four of which led to acquittal. Hardly a sterling record, but I'd be willing to bet we could find similar numbers at plenty of programs who don't get nearly the cr@p Huggins does.

Sure not all convictions, which was not the point.

1) Legree got off on a technicality but let's face it - he was found passed out in his car in the left lane of a street. Of course that was just one of two DUIs for LeGree inside of 6 months back in 2005.  Arguing that he was acquitted once does not mean much.  Frankly, UC's zero tolerance policy for poor behavior -- which led to Legree's resignation -- was a direct result of the decade+ of embarrassments cause by the basketball program.
2)  Long and Fortson were acquitted; sure, Art was just petting the police horse. But we know that Art was arrested and convicted for selling pot to an undercover cop while at his JUCO, yet Huggie still took him.  While on campus Long pleaded guilty to momentarily choking his girlfriend. Re-read that.
3) Donald Little went to jail -- Cincy was lucky he didn't have Roy Bright's gun and wasn't inclined to sexual assault like Myrick (convicted)
4) Harper -- indicative of the kind of player Huggins attracted.  And as we saw with Long -- the kind of player Huggins would have gladly taken if the situation had not become so toxic within the program.
5) Dontonio Wingfield was arrested (and pleaded guilty) just before showing up to UC for intimidating his mother and trashing her house.  He was also charged with assaulting a pair of police officers.
6) 1998 team captain D'Juan Baker was sentenced to probation for hitting his girlfriend in the head with a flower pot and hitting her.

And of course there's more.  How about Eugene Land jumping out of a window to avoid the cops and shredding his knee?  Huggins is in a class(less) by himself.  His reputation is well-earned...in fact, he's not judged harshly enough for the transgressions that occurred under his watch.  

Here's the Cliffs Notes on his tenure at UC  http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/stewart_mandel/03/22/huggins/1.html

As for MSU -- that's another argument, you listed athletes from multiple sports who played for multiple coaches over literally decades.  Cincy had the pleasure of cramming all this madness into the tenure of one coach.

[Pakuni]

As for MSU -- that's another argument, you listed athletes from multiple sports who played for multiple coaches over literally decades.  Cincy had the pleasure of cramming all this madness into the tenure of one coach.

It may be a different argument, but it's one you raised when you said "and don't forget what great citizens several others were after leaving school."
Seriously, explain to me how Huggins and/or Cincy is somehow responsible for the criminal acts of one of his former players that, in many cases, happened long after the guy left campus. You blame Huggins for Corie Blount? Why not blame Phil Jackson? Or Dell Harris?
And I'm pretty sure the great majority of the MSU players I named were in East Lansing during some point of Huggins' Cincy tenure. 

[NYWarrior]

It may be a different argument, but it's one you raised when you said "and don't forget what great citizens several others were after leaving school."
Seriously, explain to me how Huggins and/or Cincy is somehow responsible for the criminal acts of one of his former players that, in many cases, happened long after the guy left campus. You blame Huggins for Corie Blount? Why not blame Phil Jackson? Or Dell Harris?
And I'm pretty sure the great majority of the MSU players I named were in East Lansing during some point of Huggins' Cincy tenure.  

not sure what u mean .. all of the examples I cited in that post (and the Mandel link) happened to players while they played for or were recruited by Huggins at UC.

On the 'what happens when they move on point'  sure, he can't control that.  But it is at least consistent that many of huggins' players were problematic before they got to campus, remained so on campus, and continued to be after they moved on.  The latter is surely out of his control but consistent with the behavior and character tolerated at UC.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I wasn't being super secretive, I don't know that much.  I believe IWB also posted about this on the free board, but I could be mistaken about that.

I don't think it was Newbill, I believe it was before that whole situation took place.  Don't know what was said.  As for Chicos, yes, we may be recruiting mentally tough players, but I don't think a mentally tough mother/father/brother/coach is a requirement...and they do impact recruits' decisions.  There Augh, you now know as much as I do.

Basically (to no one in particular) - remember that these are still young adults, don't be an ass towards/about them.

My comments were facetious in nature.  I don't disagree with you, especially your last statement.  I have certainly made generalizations about JUCOs in the past because of my personal bias that I shouldn't have.

[NotAnAlum]

Really, have there been all that many under Huggies at any of his stops?  

Sorry Sultan but you're on the wrong side of this one.  They didn't call Huggins the Warden for nothing.  I know several Bearcat fans who would have snickered at your statement.

[GGGG]

Sorry Sultan but you're on the wrong side of this one. 

Uh...thanks....but if you read the whole thread, you'd find that I admitted as such about three hours ago.

[NotAnAlum]

Yes but I'm the guy you called out so I get to gloat. 

[Benny B]

Agree that reading between the lines..it sounds like his AAU coaches favor MU - as who else could be called "most influential?"  That said, I'd rather be in our position than DePaul's, or Illinois!   Looks like it will be head to head with Huggy Bear on this one.  What parents see in that guy is beyond me.  Truthfully, almost none of his kids EVER graduate, his teams are classic flame outs in the NCAA.  Granted he took WVU to Elite 8 this year..but prior to that..his KState and Cincy teams always flamed out.  I think 1 Final Four maybe in 1992?  Seems I recall many surprise exits of his Cincy teams.  His NCAA tourney record isn't that great...plus..getting to WVU to see a game, versus hopping in the car to drive 80 miles to MKE?

Anybody who asks such a question obviously didn't see WVU's elimination game last year.

After seeing what he did that game... my opinion of the guy has changed forever (I get a little emotional just replaying that scene in my head).  Definitely more hugs and less bear -- maybe that's what these parents have seen for years while we're left to page through the blotters. 

[GGGG]

Anybody who asks such a question obviously didn't see WVU's elimination game last year.

After seeing what he did that game... my opinion of the guy has changed forever (I get a little emotional just replaying that scene in my head).  Definitely more hugs and less bear -- maybe that's what these parents have seen for years while we're left to page through the blotters. 

I think that is what I was trying to say...and I overeached.  It's more than "they don't have accountability off the court," it's that he does seem to genuinely care for his players.

[Pakuni]

I think that is what I was trying to say...and I overeached.  It's more than "they don't have accountability off the court," it's that he does seem to genuinely care for his players.

Yep.
Also, I doubt many parents think about Art Long punching a horse 15 years ago or Jerome Harper getting into a fight with his stepdad or  Corie Blunt getting busted with dope 15 years after he left Cincinnati and think "Gee, if Bob Huggins is my son's coach, the boy will turn into a criminal."

Huggins has taken many more risky players than most, and as  a result he's been burned repeatedly and tarnished his reputation.
But to an extent, MU has been pretty fortunate over the years. Young men in college often do stupid, reckless things, and examples of it have popped up even at the "cleanest" of program involving kids with no trace of prior issues. We're lucky that MU hasn't seen more of these incidents, and the ones that have occurred havnen't been more public.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yep.
Also, I doubt many parents think about Art Long punching a horse 15 years ago or Jerome Harper getting into a fight with his stepdad or  Corie Blunt getting busted with dope 15 years after he left Cincinnati and think "Gee, if Bob Huggins is my son's coach, the boy will turn into a criminal."

Huggins has taken many more risky players than most, and as  a result he's been burned repeatedly and tarnished his reputation.
But to an extent, MU has been pretty fortunate over the years. Young men in college often do stupid, reckless things, and examples of it have popped up even at the "cleanest" of program involving kids with no trace of prior issues. We're lucky that MU hasn't seen more of these incidents, and the ones that have occurred havnen't been more public.

Well said

[PE8983]

"Corie Blunt getting busted with dope"

He didn't just get busted with dope - the guy had 29 pounds of it.  He's damn lucky he got a plea where it didn't include trafficking.  All from a guy who majored in Criminal Justice at UC.  Oh, the irony...

[avid1010]

Anybody who asks such a question obviously didn't see WVU's elimination game last year.

After seeing what he did that game... my opinion of the guy has changed forever (I get a little emotional just replaying that scene in my head).  Definitely more hugs and less bear -- maybe that's what these parents have seen for years while we're left to page through the blotters. 

He had a 28% graduation rate at Cincy...  I honesty believe some coaches will do anything to make their players graduate more because it makes the coach look good, but 28%...

[Brewtown Andy]

He had a 28% graduation rate at Cincy...  I honesty believe some coaches will do anything to make their players graduate more because it makes the coach look good, but 28%...

It was that high?

[Pakuni]

He had a 28% graduation rate at Cincy...  I honesty believe some coaches will do anything to make their players graduate more because it makes the coach look good, but 28%...

Gary Williams had an 8 percent graduation rate at Maryland. Cal had a 20 percent rate last year under Mike Montgomery. Washington had a 29 percent rate under Lorenzo Romar.
None of these guys take 1/10 the flak that Huggins has.
I'm not suggesting Huggins doesn't deserve the criticism he gets, but he seems to get more of it than others who aren't doing much, or any, better.

[MerrittsMustache]

It was that high?

According to this article...
http://www.collegehoopsnet.com/story/bob_huggins_just_win_baby


"As for academics, 27 of 95 Huggins' players graduated from Cincinnati or another university in his 16 years.  That’s a 28% graduation rate overall, including those students who transferred.  Huggins also had four seasons where the NCAA reported the Cincinnati men’s basketball graduation rate to be zero.  Even at the time Huggins was forced to resign, again according to university officials, one of his players had been maintaining a 0.0 GPA, and another would have had a 0.0 if not for two incompletes."

[Daniel]

Gary Williams had an 8 percent graduation rate at Maryland. Cal had a 20 percent rate last year under Mike Montgomery. Washington had a 29 percent rate under Lorenzo Romar.
None of these guys take 1/10 the flak that Huggins has.
I'm not suggesting Huggins doesn't deserve the criticism he gets, but he seems to get more of it than others who aren't doing much, or any, better.

I think Huggins gets more of it from us because he is a direct comptitor for games and recruits.  In addition, he has done a pretty good job getting in the news for bad stuff (DUI etc).  

If a recruit wants a very good school academically, a true family environment, being coached by a very solid coach and staff, in one of the programs that has a solid history of basketball, with an extremely high gradution rate, MU is a great fit.

[marquette99]

The only edge huggins would seem to have is that they just made a deep run and everyone saw huggins on tv concerned for an injured star.

Hopefully the shaw's will realize that MU is much better positioned to make a run during the coming years and has a much better history of taking care of all players who come here (from william gates to our superstars).

Wvu has a couple of fresh tv images pulling him that way, but I believe he will enjoy much more long-term success if he comes to MU.

[GGGG]

Hopefully the shaw's will realize that MU is much better positioned to make a run during the coming years

We are???

[avid1010]

Gary Williams had an 8 percent graduation rate at Maryland. Cal had a 20 percent rate last year under Mike Montgomery. Washington had a 29 percent rate under Lorenzo Romar.
None of these guys take 1/10 the flak that Huggins has.
I'm not suggesting Huggins doesn't deserve the criticism he gets, but he seems to get more of it than others who aren't doing much, or any, better.

I don't argue that...I just don't think kissing a player shows he cares for his players as much as a coach who gets his kids to graduate.  Heck, I don't even mind a coach with lower graduation rates because he recruits players that are going to have a more difficult time graduating, but with the help these kids get, I don't believe Huggins is doing much to promote or enforce responsibility in respect to education.  I've heard/read plenty of remarks from coaches that state their only objective is to help their players become better basketball players...not a fan of that approach.

[Aughnanure]

It was that high?

At one point it was 0%.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think some people are missing the point that there are a number of players that have ZERO intention of graduating and don't care about it.  They are going to play basketball, do what is necessary to stay eligible and will bolt as soon as their eligibility is used up, usually before graduating.  Some coaches are magnets for that type of player.

[Skatastrophy]

http://www.mysuburbanlife.com/hillside/statenews/x1305347345/Illini-recruit-Mike-Shaw-expected-to-visit-this-weekend

Shaw is visiting Illinois this weekend on an unofficial.

[Bob "Big Daddy" Wild]

http://www.mysuburbanlife.com/hillside/statenews/x1305347345/Illini-recruit-Mike-Shaw-expected-to-visit-this-weekend

Shaw is visiting Illinois this weekend on an unofficial.

How dare you post a link in this thread that is actually about Mike Shaw.