I graduated today and couldn't find Lazar's name in the program...Any ideas as to why?
I don't remember hearing that he wasn't set to graduate.
Just curious.
yes he graduated....
http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/051910aaa.html
I dont know...Lazars name was not on any of the graudation brochure stuff. You don't have to be there to be on that list, it is all-inclusive of all graduates, including those that get done in May.
Quote from: westcoastwarrior on May 23, 2010, 09:52:35 PM
yes he graduated....
http://www.gomarquette.com/sports/m-baskbl/spec-rel/051910aaa.html
That press release was very trickily worded. Note it said that Lazar/Cubie/Mo would be participating in graduation activities and when they graduated . . . it never explicitly said that they would be graduating in May--perhaps they are finishing up this summer?
Quote from: CrazyEcho on May 23, 2010, 11:14:08 PM
That press release was very trickily worded. Note it said that Lazar/Cubie/Mo would be participating in graduation activities and when they graduated . . . it never explicitly said that they would be graduating in May--perhaps they are finishing up this summer?
That wouldn't be too uncommon. I had friends who did this, I'm not surprised someone as busy as these guys needs an extra class or two at the end.
Quote from: muhoosier260 on May 23, 2010, 11:39:06 PM
That wouldn't be too uncommon. I had friends who did this, I'm not surprised someone as busy as these guys needs an extra class or two at the end.
Usually those who need extra innings are listed as well.
Everyone that is set to graduate is listed, even if it is in August. So if you are a couple classes short and are registered for those extra classes you need, then you are on the list. Both Mo and Cubillan were listed.
I had a class with Lazar this semester, and it was one that was required for graduation. I saw him maybe twice all year.
I love Lazar, but I would be really disappointed if he got a "screw it, my job is basketball" attitude towards the end of his stay at Marquette. I would also be surprised that someone who is doing the whole NBA try out circuit would have any time to take summer classes. If his "extra classes" were pushed back until after the draft, then he would be either playing overseas or on a summer league team, pushing back the classes further and further. My gut says that if he didn't graduate on time in May, he won't for awhile, if at all.
Quote from: MUfan12 on May 23, 2010, 11:50:12 PM
Usually those who need extra innings are listed as well.
Nope, not unless you sign up for may graduation. I finished in the summer but was only able to participate in ceremony by registering...maybe he didn't.
QuoteGraduation Day: Seniors Maurice Acker, David Cubillan and Lazar Hayward will participate in graduation ceremonies this weekend. Cubillan's mother and brother will be in attendance, marking the first time his mother will have visited campus during his career.
When this year's trio officially earns its degree, 61 of the last 64 Marquette players will have graduated over the course of the last 19 years and each of the 34 players to complete their respective eligibility since 1999-2000 will have joined the MU alumni group.
Doesn't sound like he didn't graduate. Nice spin though if he actually didn't.
That does look like it may be a nice spin. As discussed here previously, one can join the alumni group merely by attending, not necessarily graduating.
Quote from: beaconwarrior on May 23, 2010, 08:35:16 PM
I graduated today and couldn't find Lazar's name in the program...Any ideas as to why?
I don't remember hearing that he wasn't set to graduate.
Just curious.
Maybe Lazar Hayward is just a psuedonym.
Unless things have changed since my time, the Registrar's office has the final word on a student's graduation, not the committee in charge of graduation programs.
There have been numerous instances where an individual's name was printed even though he/she didn't really graduate, and I'm sure there have been a number of instances where someone who did graduate wasn't listed in the program.
Sure... not seeing Lazar's name in the program is unexpected, but that doesn't mean he isn't graduating. And even if he isn't, that's his and his family's business for now. Once the graduation success reports are published, then it will be everybody's business.
Speculating is fun... but when discussing the personal life of a graduating senior, please utilize discretion and restraint. Let's not go all TMZ until he's actually signed a professional contract.
Quote from: muballer10 on May 24, 2010, 07:03:23 AM
Everyone that is set to graduate is listed, even if it is in August. So if you are a couple classes short and are registered for those extra classes you need, then you are on the list. Both Mo and Cubillan were listed.
I had a class with Lazar this semester, and it was one that was required for graduation. I saw him maybe twice all year.
I love Lazar, but I would be really disappointed if he got a "screw it, my job is basketball" attitude towards the end of his stay at Marquette. I would also be surprised that someone who is doing the whole NBA try out circuit would have any time to take summer classes. If his "extra classes" were pushed back until after the draft, then he would be either playing overseas or on a summer league team, pushing back the classes further and further. My gut says that if he didn't graduate on time in May, he won't for awhile, if at all.
If you can apply and march even if you include upcoming summer classes, it makes perfect sense that Mo and Cubes graduated even if they have summer classes to finish up. Zar is going to be busy with other things this summer. I hope he comes back to graduate soon, but you can't blame the guy for working on bball for now.
Oh, and I believe he has six years for it to impact MU's graduation rates for those of you who are concerned about those kind of things.
Yeah but not necessarily, I needed extras and since I did not file the paperwork to get it done with my adviser I did not make it on the Spring list.
Quote from: BrewCity on May 24, 2010, 08:18:38 AM
That does look like it may be a nice spin. As discussed here previously, one can join the alumni group merely by attending, not necessarily graduating.
By definition, those who have graduated from or attended a university are alumni. It's not a spin to call someone who attended MU but did not graduate an alumnus.
Quote from: Benny B on May 24, 2010, 08:35:35 AM
Sure... not seeing Lazar's name in the program is unexpected, but that doesn't mean he isn't graduating. And even if he isn't, that's his and his family's business for now. Once the graduation success reports are published, then it will be everybody's business.
Speculating is fun... but when discussing the personal life of a graduating senior, please utilize discretion and restraint. Let's not go all TMZ until he's actually signed a professional contract.
Wow, even your high horse is hoity toity.
Quote from: muballer10 on May 24, 2010, 09:15:49 AM
Wow, even your high horse is hoity toity.
He makes a very valid point.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 24, 2010, 09:41:33 AM
He makes a very valid point.
Really? What is that exactly? I said his last 2 bullets were hoity - and all they effectively said were "that is none of your business"
That isn't a point, that is being a douche. We're hypothesizing over whether or not our star player graduated, a player who has, for the last four years, been applauded for having impeccable character and being a perfect representative of the university. Questioning whether or not he graduated because he was not included on the 2,000+ person list with all of the other graduates is neither out of line nor critical without cause.
Good Lord! Give the kid a break! In four years, Lazar has been one of the best examples of hard work the program has seen in quite some time. I recall the media guide listing his unbelievable physical progression. There is ZERO reason to think he's just up and quit. Leave it alone!
Why would the article say that Lazar was participating "in graduation ceremonies" if he wasn't actually graduating? What else would he be doing? Was he ushering at the Bradley Center?
Whether he graduated or not, he did more for the university than any of us have ever done.
Quote from: muballer10 on May 24, 2010, 10:08:54 AM
Really? What is that exactly? I said his last 2 bullets were hoity - and all they effectively said were "that is none of your business"
That isn't a point, that is being a douche. We're hypothesizing over whether or not our star player graduated, a player who has, for the last four years, been applauded for having impeccable character and being a perfect representative of the university. Questioning whether or not he graduated because he was not included on the 2,000+ person list with all of the other graduates is neither out of line nor critical without cause.
IMO, your level of douchy-ness on this topic exceeds Benny's.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 24, 2010, 10:40:20 AM
IMO, your level of douchy-ness on this topic exceeds Benny's.
Sorry that I'm just genuinely fed up with "holier than thou" posting that routinely litters this board. Don't tell me to mind my own business when I'm respectfully talking about publically available information on a message board.
Quote from: muballer10 on May 24, 2010, 10:42:18 AM
Sorry that I'm just genuinely fed up with "holier than thou" posting that routinely litters this board. Don't tell me to mind my own business when I'm respectfully talking about publically available information on a message board.
There is a lot of public information about a lot of people that can be posted on message boards. The key is determining what is appropriate to post in such a forum and what isn't.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 24, 2010, 10:47:38 AM
There is a lot of public information about a lot of people that can be posted on message boards. The key is determining what is appropriate to post in such a forum and what isn't.
[/quote
Could you give me an example of publically available information that is not appropriate for a message board?
That is the point of message boards, and that is the point of THIS message board - to talk about all things Marquette basketball. We can talk about how great our graduation rate is. Marquette can write a article with the sole purpose of saying "our players graduated this year". We can take bits and pieces of interviews and publically crafted statements to assume Lazar is a deity. We cannot bring up the possibility that one did not graduate? All of a sudden that is inappropriate? Please.
Maybe we could make a different forum for inappropriate people like myself. We can call it the real world and put it right under the superbar.
Quote from: muballer10 on May 24, 2010, 11:01:14 AM
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 24, 2010, 10:47:38 AM
There is a lot of public information about a lot of people that can be posted on message boards. The key is determining what is appropriate to post in such a forum and what isn't.
[/quote
Could you give me an example of publically available information that is not appropriate for a message board?
That is the point of message boards, and that is the point of THIS message board - to talk about all things Marquette basketball. We can talk about how great our graduation rate is. Marquette can write a article with the sole purpose of saying "our players graduated this year". We can take bits and pieces of interviews and publically crafted statements to assume Lazar is a deity. We cannot bring up the possibility that one did not graduate? All of a sudden that is inappropriate? Please.
Maybe we could make a different forum for inappropriate people like myself. We can call it the real world and put it right under the superbar.
One name missing from a program is probably not the smoking gun you think it is.
I think Lazar's work ethic for the last 4 years demands that we give him the benefit of the doubt rather than tabloid speculation.
Quote from: Hards_Alumni on May 24, 2010, 11:03:41 AM
One name missing from a program is probably not the smoking gun you think it is.
I think Lazar's work ethic for the last 4 years demands that we give him the benefit of the doubt rather than tabloid speculation.
That's fair. This is the sort of the thing that interests me when recruiting season is done and the Brewers blow.
ugh, I feel that pain all too well.
Or you can respect Lazar as a new alum of Marquette, whether or not he graduated. Those graduation booklets get many things incorrect as well. Lazar deserves the benefit of the doubt, and the original poster may or may not have just skimmed over his name making this topic null and void.
Quote from: muballer10 on May 24, 2010, 11:01:14 AM
Could you give me an example of publically available information that is not appropriate for a message board?
That is the point of message boards, and that is the point of THIS message board - to talk about all things Marquette basketball. We can talk about how great our graduation rate is. Marquette can write a article with the sole purpose of saying "our players graduated this year". We can take bits and pieces of interviews and publically crafted statements to assume Lazar is a deity. We cannot bring up the possibility that one did not graduate? All of a sudden that is inappropriate? Please.
To answer your first question...when someone posted Tim Maymon's arrest record.
And you did more than bring up the question of whether or not someone didn't graduate. You extrapolated about his "screw it, my next job is basketball," and said "my gut says that if he didn't graduate on time in May, he won't for awhile, if at all."
Quote from: muballer10 on May 24, 2010, 11:06:55 AM
That's fair. This is the sort of the thing that interests me when recruiting season is done and the Brewers blow.
I'll tell you what's not fair... torpedoing what was shaping up to be a good debate by injecting common feelings of misery unrelated to the topic at hand.
What we do know is that the wording last year was far less ambiguous than 2010:
May 18, 2009
QuoteMilwaukee - The Marquette University men's basketball program added five more graduates Sunday afternoon when Trend Blackledge, Dwight Burke, Dominic James, Wesley Matthews and Jerel McNeal officially received their diplomas at the commencement ceremonies.
May 19, 2010
QuoteGraduation Day: Seniors Maurice Acker, David Cubillan and Lazar Hayward will participate in graduation ceremonies this weekend. Cubillan's mother and brother will be in attendance, marking the first time his mother will have visited campus during his career.
When this year's trio officially earns its degree, 61 of the last 64 Marquette players will have graduated over the course of the last 19 years and each of the 34 players to complete their respective eligibility since 1999-2000 will have joined the MU alumni group.
Its not unfair to conclude based on the wording that one of this year's players has not yet earned his degree--however, I don't think you can conclude it was Hayward.
The use of the word "When" is extremely troubling for an institution that prides itself on academics. Here's a completely accurate statement that demonstrates how phony the conditional statement is: "When all of Bob Huggins' former players officially earn their degrees, Cincinnati basketball will demonstrate a 100% graduation rate."
I also think people need to be less sensitive over the issue--there is absolutely nothing wrong with the fact that a player may need some extra time--note that Trend Blackledge was honored in 2009, even though his playing days ended in 2008.
The right thing to do is honor players
when they receive their degrees--not issue a "has he or hasn't he" carefully-worded release that leaves room for doubt. If two of our players did earn their degrees, then they deserve nothing less than the same definitive statement we issued in 2009 regarding Blackledge, Burke, McNeal, Matthews and James.
I can't believe this dumb post got 30 responses...me included.
Quote from: damuts222 on May 24, 2010, 11:18:45 AM
Those graduation booklets get many things incorrect as well. Lazar deserves the benefit of the doubt, and the original poster may or may not have just skimmed over his name making this topic null and void.
There's no way they would miss Lazar's name. I'm sure someone would've caught it.
The point of an education at a Jesuit college is to improve the character and skills of a student. It looks like Lazar as grown as a person and is continuing to improve himself for his career. We are talking about millions of dollars on the line for this guys future, the official document can wait.
Honestly, if you had to chose between finishing school or applying across the country for an extremely high paying job that you love, what would you guys choose?
I'm not really sure why it's a dumb post... one of the greatest players ever at Marquette is leaving and wasn't at graduation.
At Marquette we also pride our athletes on their work in the classroom and graduation rates.
We all want to see Zar get drafted so I was just curious as to what could have happened to make him not graduate.
Quote from: Marquette84 on May 24, 2010, 05:36:57 PM
What we do know is that the wording last year was far less ambiguous than 2010:
May 18, 2009
May 19, 2010
Its not unfair to conclude based on the wording that one of this year's players has not yet earned his degree--however, I don't think you can conclude it was Hayward.
The use of the word "When" is extremely troubling for an institution that prides itself on academics. Here's a completely accurate statement that demonstrates how phony the conditional statement is: "When all of Bob Huggins' former players officially earn their degrees, Cincinnati basketball will demonstrate a 100% graduation rate."
I also think people need to be less sensitive over the issue--there is absolutely nothing wrong with the fact that a player may need some extra time--note that Trend Blackledge was honored in 2009, even though his playing days ended in 2008.
The right thing to do is honor players when they receive their degrees--not issue a "has he or hasn't he" carefully-worded release that leaves room for doubt. If two of our players did earn their degrees, then they deserve nothing less than the same definitive statement we issued in 2009 regarding Blackledge, Burke, McNeal, Matthews and James.
Looking at the dates, those happened at two different times in the graduation process. The 2010 one was released before the graduation, while the 2009 one was released after. So that could make a difference in the wording. With Labor Day being at a weird time last year, the first semester started after Labor Day instead of before like usual. Thus, the entire schedule was pushed back a week. Maybe we will see another announcement in the coming days. Also, that announcement for 2010 had a picture of all three players in caps and gowns. So, I just assume that Lazar was graduating.
Maybe someone could simply ask Lazar if he has graduated - then report said answer to the rest of us.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on May 24, 2010, 09:06:19 PM
There's no way they would miss Lazar's name. I'm sure someone would've caught it.
The point of an education at a Jesuit college is to improve the character and skills of a student. It looks like Lazar as grown as a person and is continuing to improve himself for his career. We are talking about millions of dollars on the line for this guys future, the official document can wait.
Honestly, if you had to chose between finishing school or applying across the country for an extremely high paying job that you love, what would you guys choose?
When you are already a second semester senior, finishing up the few classes you have left is not hard. Sorry to burst the bubble to all the communications majors out there, but there is a reason all of the basketball players are in that school; its the easiest schedule. I think saying "the degree can wait" is a cop out, finishing what you started because it is the right thing to do shows the character that you speak of.
Your "pick this or that" example isn't fair because they are not mutually exclusive. He could have done both, and he should have done both. Other seniors who enter the draft (although those numbers are falling) are able to finish up their coursework and graduate. I spent a lot of time and energy searching for jobs, and accepted one in April. Since I put in a lot of effort, and I already got a job, would it be ok if I waited and got the degree later?
Quote from: muballer10 on May 25, 2010, 07:42:57 AM
Your "pick this or that" example isn't fair because they are not mutually exclusive. He could have done both, and he should have done both. Other seniors who enter the draft (although those numbers are falling) are able to finish up their coursework and graduate. I spent a lot of time and energy searching for jobs, and accepted one in April. Since I put in a lot of effort, and I already got a job, would it be ok if I waited and got the degree later?
Apples to oranges. If you did not finish your degree, the job offer likely would have been rescinded.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on May 25, 2010, 07:49:50 AM
Apples to oranges. If you did not finish your degree, the job offer likely would have been rescinded.
Not only that, but Lazar's job is potentially worth a salary of $400,000+.
muballer's point is just silly. If he has a few classes to wrap up, he can do so at any time. Going "all in" in basketball is Lazar's best course of action because this is the best time in his life to do so. No offense, but this is *why* he primarily came to school...to play basketball. If he decides to come back and finish his degree, the door will always be open for him to do so. If he doesn't, I don't really view it as a character flaw of any sort.
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 25, 2010, 08:01:37 AM
Not only that, but Lazar's job is potentially worth a salary of $400,000+.
muballer's point is just silly. If he has a few classes to wrap up, he can do so at any time. Going "all in" in basketball is Lazar's best course of action because this is the best time in his life to do so. No offense, but this is *why* he primarily came to school...to play basketball. If he decides to come back and finish his degree, the door will always be open for him to do so. If he doesn't, I don't really view it as a character flaw of any sort.
Of course not, why would Lazar have a character flaw? He is the most model citizen and the best representative this University could ever expect. Maybe we should stop bragging about our graduation rate then. It is a good thing when it is 100%, but it doesn't matter when there is a better opportunity for a kid on the horizon. We have never had any indication that he was behind, so if there was an issue, it had to happen sometime in the last year. That is a 100%, "screw it, basketball is my job" attitude. If Lazar was your kid, would you tell him to finish up?
This hypocricy is similar to sticking out our noses at other schools with off the court issues and pretending issues with Patrick Hazel and Mo Acker (allegedly) never happened. You can't applaud something when it is good and ignore it when it is bad.
Quote from: muballer10 on May 25, 2010, 08:12:40 AM
Of course not, why would Lazar have a character flaw? He is the most model citizen and the best representative this University could ever expect. Maybe we should stop bragging about our graduation rate then. It is a good thing when it is 100%, but it doesn't matter when there is a better opportunity for a kid on the horizon. We have never had any indication that he was behind, so if there was an issue, it had to happen sometime in the last year. That is a 100%, "screw it, basketball is my job" attitude. If Lazar was your kid, would you tell him to finish up?
This hypocricy is similar to sticking out our noses at other schools with off the court issues and pretending issues with Patrick Hazel and Mo Acker (allegedly) never happened. You can't applaud something when it is good and ignore it when it is bad.
You said "I think saying "the degree can wait" is a cop out, finishing what you started because it is the right thing to do shows the character that you speak of. "
Logic says that if finishing his degree is a sign of character, then not finishing it is a character flaw.
And I don't think the grad rate needs to be 100% for it to be obvious that MU takes academics seriously with its athletes. If the kids don't want to finish up, that's fine by me. It isn't a black mark on the University if the grad rates dips below that mark. It's not as though it's in Huggins territory...and hell the University's overall grad rate is less than 100%. Why should we hold athletes to a higher standard than the overall student body?
Quote from: muballer10 on May 25, 2010, 08:12:40 AM
Of course not, why would Lazar have a character flaw? He is the most model citizen and the best representative this University could ever expect. Maybe we should stop bragging about our graduation rate then. It is a good thing when it is 100%, but it doesn't matter when there is a better opportunity for a kid on the horizon. We have never had any indication that he was behind, so if there was an issue, it had to happen sometime in the last year. That is a 100%, "screw it, basketball is my job" attitude. If Lazar was your kid, would you tell him to finish up?
This hypocricy is similar to sticking out our noses at other schools with off the court issues and pretending issues with Patrick Hazel and Mo Acker (allegedly) never happened. You can't applaud something when it is good and ignore it when it is bad.
Why would we, the fans and alums, know if Lazar was behind on his track to graduate? And why should it matter? I believe that a student-athlete graduates within 6 years of enrolling, he/she counts towards the graduation rate.
Hypothetically, let's say that Lazar needs 3 credits to graduate and he could finish up those credits this summer and earn his degree OR he could compete in the NBA combine, workout for NBA teams, participate in the NBA Summer League and come back next summer to finish his degree. What option do you feel would be best for Lazar's chosen career?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 25, 2010, 08:35:04 AM
And I don't think the grad rate needs to be 100% for it to be obvious that MU takes academics seriously with its athletes. If the kids don't want to finish up, that's fine by me. It isn't a black mark on the University if the grad rates dips below that mark. It's not as though it's in Huggins territory...and hell the University's overall grad rate is less than 100%. Why should we hold athletes to a higher standard than the overall student body?
Valid point, 6 year grad rate at MU is 75%. http://www.collegeresults.org/collegeprofile.aspx?institutionid=239105
What do you think the overall student body graudation rate is for students receiving free tuition and a stipend? Im guessing it is north of 99%.
Quote from: muballer10 on May 25, 2010, 09:21:03 AM
What do you think the overall student body graudation rate is for students receiving free tuition and a stipend? Im guessing it is north of 99%.
That's irrelevant, and you know it is. The misconception that elite D-1 athletes have it "easy" is comical.
Quote from: muballer10 on May 25, 2010, 09:21:03 AM
What do you think the overall student body graudation rate is for students receiving free tuition and a stipend? Im guessing it is north of 99%.
Really?
Given that MU athletes overall have a 93 percent graduation rate, I kind of doubt that.
And how many of those non-athletes have 20 hours of practice a week, plus games, plus travel, plus an expectation to work out/practice on their own, etc.? Not exactly apples to apples with your average student, is it?
I guess you know it's deep in the offseason when an entirely innocuous and vanilla press release can send some here into a tizzy.
Quote from: reinko on May 25, 2010, 09:33:20 AM
That's irrelevant, and you know it is. The misconception that elite D-1 athletes have it "easy" is comical.
With their tutors, and in the communications school, I could have gotten a degree when I was in the 8th grade. I never said their life was easy, or graduation was necessarily "easy" for them, but it is something that should be accomplished when it is given to you.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 25, 2010, 09:41:44 AM
Really?
Given that MU athletes overall have a 93 percent graduation rate, I kind of doubt that.
And how many of those non-athletes have 20 hours of practice a week, plus games, plus travel, plus an expectation to work out/practice on their own, etc.? Not exactly apples to apples with your average student, is it?
I guess you know it's deep in the offseason when an entirely innocuous and vanilla press release can send some here into a tizzy.
I don't want this to turn into a straw man where everyone is fighting against the claim that every single basketball player must graduate. All that I said, and continue to maintain, is that when a player is viewed as the "perfect representative for the university" he should graduate. It is that simple, and doesn't need to be any harder than that. Wes did this whole spiel last year and graduated from the business school. DJ and Jerel went through the same thing as well. Stop making excuses.
Quote from: muballer10 on May 25, 2010, 09:46:43 AM
With their tutors, and in the communications school, I could have gotten a degree when I was in the 8th grade. I never said their life was easy, or graduation was necessarily "easy" for them, but it is something that should be accomplished when it is given to you.
Congrats on your upbringing affording you the opportunity to go to good schools your whole life, and giving you the skills necessary to graduate from college in the 8th grade. If we all could be so lucky.
Judging by your username I imagine you just graduated, congratulations, it is a big deal, and everything doesn't come as easy to everyone. Especially for those who had rough life growing up, struggling through school, being forced to go to a prep school to boost their grades and hopefully qualify to realize their dream of playing D-1 ball.
Best of luck out there.
Quote from: reinko on May 25, 2010, 10:00:37 AM
Congrats on your upbringing affording you the opportunity to go to good schools your whole life, and giving you the skills necessary to graduate from college in the 8th grade. If we all could be so lucky.
I personally took on $70,000 of debt because I realize and respect that value of a Marquette education. 70% of my high school gets free lunch. Any other assumptions?
Listen, I love Lazar and I'm thankful for everything that he has done for the university, but I feel that we often give our players a free pass because they play hard and say the right things in the limited interviews they give. From what I have seen, he is nothing but a great person and Im grateful to have gotten the opportunity to see him play. On the flip side, I can admit that he is less than perfect, just like the rest of us.
Quote from: muballer10 on May 25, 2010, 07:42:57 AM
When you are already a second semester senior, finishing up the few classes you have left is not hard. Sorry to burst the bubble to all the communications majors out there, but there is a reason all of the basketball players are in that school; its the easiest schedule. I think saying "the degree can wait" is a cop out, finishing what you started because it is the right thing to do shows the character that you speak of.
Your "pick this or that" example isn't fair because they are not mutually exclusive. He could have done both, and he should have done both. Other seniors who enter the draft (although those numbers are falling) are able to finish up their coursework and graduate. I spent a lot of time and energy searching for jobs, and accepted one in April. Since I put in a lot of effort, and I already got a job, would it be ok if I waited and got the degree later?
Are you the same type of person criticizing Hayward from leaving Butler? Seriously, these guys careers have nothing to do with a degree. A degree is a piece of paper that says you are ready for a job. If these guys have a once in a lifetime chance to get their dream job, they should go for it. Graduation can wait.
I blame Marquette more than Lazar, if anyone for putting out a release about them participating in graduate ceremonies. I read a book about Dean Smith and Coach K. What made them such great coaches was they had their players interest at hearts. If a player was ready for the NBA, he would encourage them to leave early. It's selfish to expect players to jeopardize their careers just so they work harder and longer in the classroom. The only difference prob between lazar and cubbilan/acker is that lazar doesn't have free time this summer to graduate.
Quote from: muballer10 on May 25, 2010, 10:11:50 AM
I personally took on $70,000 of debt because I realize and respect that value of a Marquette education. 70% of my high school gets free lunch. Any other assumptions?
Listen, I love Lazar and I'm thankful for everything that he has done for the university, but I feel that we often give our players a free pass because they play hard and say the right things in the limited interviews they give. From what I have seen, he is nothing but a great person and Im grateful to have gotten the opportunity to see him play. On the flip side, I can admit that he is less than perfect, just like the rest of us.
I assumed you went to good schools because you stated you could have graduated from college in the 8th grade with the help of some tutors. And the word afford can mean a lot of things, not just financial.
But whatever, as I stated earlier, best of luck out there.
Quote from: Pakuni on May 25, 2010, 09:41:44 AM
Really?
Given that MU athletes overall have a 93 percent graduation rate, I kind of doubt that.
And how many of those non-athletes have 20 hours of practice a week, plus games, plus travel, plus an expectation to work out/practice on their own, etc.? Not exactly apples to apples with your average student, is it?
I guess you know it's deep in the offseason when an entirely innocuous and vanilla press release can send some here into a tizzy.
Not to mention that many of these guys would not be in school if it weren't for basketball. Basketball is the primary reason they came to MU and is going to be the primary thing they are interested in while they are here. I think it's great that they get a degree on top of that, but I'm not going to get all bent out of shape if someone doesn't when the University has an athletic graduation rate of 93%.
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on May 25, 2010, 10:19:55 AM
Are you the same type of person criticizing Hayward from leaving Butler? Seriously, these guys careers have nothing to do with a degree. A degree is a piece of paper that says you are ready for a job. If these guys have a once in a lifetime chance to get their dream job, they should go for it. Graduation can wait.
I blame Marquette more than Lazar, if anyone for putting out a release about them participating in graduate ceremonies. I read a book about Dean Smith and Coach K. What made them such great coaches was they had their players interest at hearts. If a player was ready for the NBA, he would encourage them to leave early. It's selfish to expect players to jeopardize their careers just so they work harder and longer in the classroom. The only difference prob between lazar and cubbilan/acker is that lazar doesn't have free time this summer to graduate.
Gordon Hayward was an underclassmen, right? That is completely different. Im not disappointed is Lazar for choosing the NBA over graduation, I am disappointed in him (allegedly) doing it in the 2nd semester of his senior year. Lazar is not forgoing any money by finishing up school, Gordon is. Apples to organges.
Did I miss the post where someone defined exactly why Lazar wasn't in the graduation book? As in, how many credits he's off, and whether or not he's planning on finishing up those credits and when he will be finishing them? Seems like we are having quite the debate for something that has a lot of unknowns yet.
Quote from: muballer10 on May 25, 2010, 10:35:01 AM
Gordon Hayward was an underclassmen, right? That is completely different. Im not disappointed is Lazar for choosing the NBA over graduation, I am disappointed in him (allegedly) doing it in the 2nd semester of his senior year. Lazar is not forgoing any money by finishing up school, Gordon is. Apples to organges.
If Lazar spent his summer taking a couple classes instead of working out for NBA teams then he very well could be forgoing money. Also, it's a lot easier to earn your all-important degree when you presumably only need a few more credits as opposed to needing roughly 4 semesters-worth of credits.
Basically your argument is that it's OK to leave school for the NBA as long as you're not all that close to graduating. That doesn't sound like a very strong argument from someone who could have graduated from MU at age 14 ;)
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on May 25, 2010, 11:55:57 AM
If Lazar spent his summer taking a couple classes instead of working out for NBA teams then he very well could be forgoing money. Also, it's a lot easier to earn your all-important degree when you presumably only need a few more credits as opposed to needing roughly 4 semesters-worth of credits.
Basically your argument is that it's OK to leave school for the NBA as long as you're not all that close to graduating. That doesn't sound like a very strong argument from someone who could have graduated from MU at age 14 ;)
My MU education taught me how to point out a strawman when I see one.
Please continue to put words in my mouth and pretend that 2 separate situations are the same thing. Who said anything about the summer? DJ, Wes, Burke, Jerel, Cubillan and Acker had no problem finishing up in time. By all accounts, Lazar should have followed suit and had no problem finishing up in four years. There was never any indication that Lazar was behind, so the NEED to finish up "in the summer" seemingly popped up second semester of his senior year. After seven successful semesters, it would have taken little or no effort to finish up. Had he done so his NBA payday would not have been affected at all. Gordon is faced with the decision "Should I go back to school or make millions of dollars". Lazar is not faced with that decision. Lazar is faced with "should I graduate, or stop trying because a degree isn't of monetary value to me". The former is ok. The latter is not.
Quote from: muballer10 on May 25, 2010, 12:27:28 PM
My MU education taught me how to point out a strawman when I see one.
Please continue to put words in my mouth and pretend that 2 separate situations are the same thing. Who said anything about the summer? DJ, Wes, Burke, Jerel, Cubillan and Acker had no problem finishing up in time. By all accounts, Lazar should have followed suit and had no problem finishing up in four years. There was never any indication that Lazar was behind, so the NEED to finish up "in the summer" seemingly popped up second semester of his senior year. After seven successful semesters, it would have taken little or no effort to finish up. Had he done so his NBA payday would not have been affected at all. Gordon is faced with the decision "Should I go back to school or make millions of dollars". Lazar is not faced with that decision. Lazar is faced with "should I graduate, or stop trying because a degree isn't of monetary value to me". The former is ok. The latter is not.
Sounds like a lot of assumptions being made.
Acker and Cubes each had 5 years...
How do we know he didn't graduate? I know it is crazy to think they would leave out the name of probably the most well known senior on campus, but mistakes happen. Who knows, maybe it was listed as Lazar Haywood, maybe it wasn't in alphabetical order, maybe the op missed it in the list, etc.
Did he / or didn't he? I don't care, if he did congrats, if not I assume he will later. I guess I don't see what the big deal is.
Quote from: muballer10 on May 25, 2010, 12:27:28 PM
My MU education taught me how to point out a strawman when I see one.
Please continue to put words in my mouth and pretend that 2 separate situations are the same thing. Who said anything about the summer? DJ, Wes, Burke, Jerel, Cubillan and Acker had no problem finishing up in time. By all accounts, Lazar should have followed suit and had no problem finishing up in four years. There was never any indication that Lazar was behind, so the NEED to finish up "in the summer" seemingly popped up second semester of his senior year. After seven successful semesters, it would have taken little or no effort to finish up. Had he done so his NBA payday would not have been affected at all. Gordon is faced with the decision "Should I go back to school or make millions of dollars". Lazar is not faced with that decision. Lazar is faced with "should I graduate, or stop trying because a degree isn't of monetary value to me". The former is ok. The latter is not.
Why is the latter not OK? If he doesn't see any value in it, why should he waste time doing it? He can always go back later if he changes his mind.
Quote from: reinko on May 25, 2010, 12:35:55 PM
Acker and Cubes each had 5 years...
touche good man.
Quote from: g0lden3agle on May 25, 2010, 12:30:50 PM
Sounds like a lot of assumptions being made.
Exactly, do we even know if Mo and David finished on time? All we know if they 'graduated' on Sunday, but may still be taking summer credits.
Also, could Lazar's stay with the USA team affect his ability to take summer classes? To me that, would be comparable to someone co-oping and taking an extra semester later on for engineers and accountants.
You are saying that it is wrong to make it an either or argument, but I feel your are making an argument that is wrong for being too extreme on the other end. Of course his focus on school could affect the amount of time in the gym, which would be key to future earnings. Just cause he doesn't get it now, doesn't mean he doesn't care about it. If an accountant like my friend takes a semester off to make money and learn about his field and takes 4.5 years, does that mean he doesn't care about his education. I mean he could always get experience later, he should've graduated in the mandatory 4 years.
Quote from: reinko on May 25, 2010, 12:35:55 PM
Acker and Cubes each had 5 years...
cubes was only here for 4 years.
Quote from: muballer10 on May 25, 2010, 07:42:57 AM
When you are already a second semester senior, finishing up the few classes you have left is not hard. Sorry to burst the bubble to all the communications majors out there, but there is a reason all of the basketball players are in that school; its the easiest schedule. I think saying "the degree can wait" is a cop out, finishing what you started because it is the right thing to do shows the character that you speak of.
Your "pick this or that" example isn't fair because they are not mutually exclusive. He could have done both, and he should have done both. Other seniors who enter the draft (although those numbers are falling) are able to finish up their coursework and graduate. I spent a lot of time and energy searching for jobs, and accepted one in April. Since I put in a lot of effort, and I already got a job, would it be ok if I waited and got the degree later?
Lazar wasn't in Communications. he was in Social welfare & Justice. did anyone look at the A&S section of the program?
Quote from: The Sultan of South Wayne on May 25, 2010, 12:40:23 PM
Why is the latter not OK? If he doesn't see any value in it, why should he waste time doing it? He can always go back later if he changes his mind.
That just comes down to a fundamental difference in opinion, and that is perfectly fine. I was just pointing out the contradiction in being a great representative of the university, and at the same time, viewing the completion of the degree as "a waste of time". If Lazar was as great of an embodiment of the MU values as many have claimed, I would like to think that he would get a sense of pride when graduating with a MU degree and to even feel obligated to finish up. If you don't agree, that is certainly fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 25, 2010, 12:52:00 PM
Lazar wasn't in Communications. he was in Social welfare & Justice. did anyone look at the A&S section of the program?
The ceremony was over 2 hours long, trust me I looked through the whole thing.
Quote from: muballer10 on May 25, 2010, 12:53:55 PM
The ceremony was over 2 hours long, trust me I looked through the whole thing.
I still remember my hangover from that day. maybe you missed him. ;D
Quote from: martyconlonontherun on May 25, 2010, 12:44:31 PM
Also, could Lazar's stay with the USA team affect his ability to take summer classes? To me that, would be comparable to someone co-oping and taking an extra semester later on for engineers and accountants.
Thats a great point. If so, then completely understandable. It just seems weird that we have never heard he was behind and the press release mentioned him in the same breath with Cubillan and Acker who were ready to walk. I could see how that committment could push him back though, which makes this different. I sort of viewed it as him entering semester 8 on time, and leaving semester 8 behind.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 25, 2010, 12:48:50 PM
cubes was only here for 4 years.
Acker was only here four years. He would have had some credits transfer from previous school.
Quote from: ZiggysFryBoy on May 25, 2010, 12:56:24 PM
I still remember my hangover from that day. maybe you missed him. ;D
Haha +1
Quote from: muballer10 on May 25, 2010, 12:52:14 PM
I was just pointing out the contradiction in being a great representative of the university, and at the same time, viewing the completion of the degree as "a waste of time".
I think it is your assumption that Lazar views the completion of his degree as a waste of time that has caused a lot of people to react strongly to your posts. Put simply, you have absolutely no idea. Unless I missed something in this thread, nobody on this board has any idea. Apparently his name was missing from the program -- and that's really all we know.
From Rosiak's May 14 blog entry:
"Hayward, who took his last final exam on Friday and will graduate with a degree in social welfare and justice, plans on remaining in Milwaukee, where he'll continue individual skill workouts with former Milwaukee Bucks assistant coach Brian James and weight-room and conditioning workouts with MU's Todd Smith."
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/93834299.html (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/93834299.html)
How should we spin that for it to mean he didn't graduate?
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on May 25, 2010, 02:42:13 PM
"Hayward, who took his last final exam of the semester on Friday and will eventually graduate with a degree in social welfare and justice, " http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/93834299.html[/url]
How should we spin that for it to mean he didn't graduate?
Does that work?
QuoteIf Lazar was as great of an embodiment of the MU values as many have claimed, I would like to think that he would get a sense of pride when graduating with a MU degree and to even feel obligated to finish up. If you don't agree, that is certainly fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.
Full plate of crow. Do you have something against Zar'??
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_6JPrNHnRVZI/SW5WXZh6soI/AAAAAAAAC9E/zPAPSK8gqJo/s400/eat-crow.jpg)
hahaha, that is good enough for me then. I've never had anything against Lazar. I love him as much as a man can heterosexually love another man, just would have been disappointed HAD he not graduated. It looks like he did, and I couldnt be happier.
I guess that means MU accidentally left him off the list? Way to drop the ball.
Does anyone have a PDF of the commencement program (or link)? I didn't find anything on MU's website.
Quote from: MerrittsMustache on May 25, 2010, 02:42:13 PM
From Rosiak's May 14 blog entry:
"Hayward, who took his last final exam on Friday and will graduate with a degree in social welfare and justice, plans on remaining in Milwaukee, where he'll continue individual skill workouts with former Milwaukee Bucks assistant coach Brian James and weight-room and conditioning workouts with MU's Todd Smith."
http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/93834299.html (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/93834299.html)
How should we spin that for it to mean he didn't graduate?
If I must: It was his last final exam b/c he no longer has any classes left that require finals . . . and he still has coursework to do so he "will graduate" in 2030 when he finishes his NBA career.
Quote from: muballer10 on May 25, 2010, 04:10:10 PM
hahaha, that is good enough for me then. I've never had anything against Lazar. I love him as much as a man can heterosexually love another man, just would have been disappointed HAD he not graduated. It looks like he did, and I couldnt be happier.
I guess that means MU accidentally left him off the list? Way to drop the ball.
Can they choose to have their name off the list?