Lazar graduating?

[martyconlonontherun]

When you are already a second semester senior, finishing up the few classes you have left is not hard. Sorry to burst the bubble to all the communications majors out there, but there is a reason all of the basketball players are in that school; its the easiest schedule. I think saying "the degree can wait" is a cop out, finishing what you started because it is the right thing to do shows the character that you speak of.

Your "pick this or that" example isn't fair because they are not mutually exclusive. He could have done both, and he should have done both. Other seniors who enter the draft (although those numbers are falling) are able to finish up their coursework and graduate. I spent a lot of time and energy searching for jobs, and accepted one in April. Since I put in a lot of effort, and I already got a job, would it be ok if I waited and got the degree later?

Are you the same type of person criticizing Hayward from leaving Butler? Seriously, these guys careers have nothing to do with a degree. A degree is a piece of paper that says you are ready for a job. If these guys have a once in a lifetime chance to get their dream job, they should go for it. Graduation can wait.

I blame Marquette more than Lazar, if anyone for putting out a release about them participating in graduate ceremonies. I read a book about Dean Smith and Coach K. What made them such great coaches was they had their players interest at hearts. If a player was ready for the NBA, he would encourage them to leave early. It's selfish to expect players to jeopardize their careers just so they work harder and longer in the classroom. The only difference prob between lazar and cubbilan/acker is that lazar doesn't have free time this summer to graduate.

[reinko]

I personally took on $70,000 of debt because I realize and respect that value of a Marquette education. 70% of my high school gets free lunch. Any other assumptions?

Listen, I love Lazar and I'm thankful for everything that he has done for the university, but I feel that we often give our players a free pass because they play hard and say the right things in the limited interviews they give. From what I have seen, he is nothing but a great person and Im grateful to have gotten the opportunity to see him play. On the flip side, I can admit that he is less than perfect, just like the rest of us.

I assumed you went to good schools because you stated you could have graduated from college in the 8th grade with the help of some tutors.  And the word afford can mean a lot of things, not just financial.

But whatever, as I stated earlier, best of luck out there.

[GGGG]

Really?
Given that MU athletes overall have a 93 percent graduation rate, I kind of doubt that.

And how many of those non-athletes have 20 hours of practice a week, plus games, plus travel, plus an expectation to work out/practice on their own, etc.? Not exactly apples to apples with your average student, is it?

I guess you know it's deep in the offseason when an entirely innocuous and vanilla press release can send some here into a tizzy.

Not to mention that many of these guys would not be in school if it weren't for basketball.  Basketball is the primary reason they came to MU and is going to be the primary thing they are interested in while they are here.  I think it's great that they get a degree on top of that, but I'm not going to get all bent out of shape if someone doesn't when the University has an athletic graduation rate of 93%.

[muballer10]

Are you the same type of person criticizing Hayward from leaving Butler? Seriously, these guys careers have nothing to do with a degree. A degree is a piece of paper that says you are ready for a job. If these guys have a once in a lifetime chance to get their dream job, they should go for it. Graduation can wait.

I blame Marquette more than Lazar, if anyone for putting out a release about them participating in graduate ceremonies. I read a book about Dean Smith and Coach K. What made them such great coaches was they had their players interest at hearts. If a player was ready for the NBA, he would encourage them to leave early. It's selfish to expect players to jeopardize their careers just so they work harder and longer in the classroom. The only difference prob between lazar and cubbilan/acker is that lazar doesn't have free time this summer to graduate.

Gordon Hayward was an underclassmen, right? That is completely different. Im not disappointed is Lazar for choosing the NBA over graduation, I am disappointed in him (allegedly) doing it in the 2nd semester of his senior year. Lazar is not forgoing any money by finishing up school, Gordon is. Apples to organges. 

[g0lden3agle]

Did I miss the post where someone defined exactly why Lazar wasn't in the graduation book? As in, how many credits he's off, and whether or not he's planning on finishing up those credits and when he will be finishing them?  Seems like we are having quite the debate for something that has a lot of unknowns yet.

[MerrittsMustache]

Gordon Hayward was an underclassmen, right? That is completely different. Im not disappointed is Lazar for choosing the NBA over graduation, I am disappointed in him (allegedly) doing it in the 2nd semester of his senior year. Lazar is not forgoing any money by finishing up school, Gordon is. Apples to organges. 

If Lazar spent his summer taking a couple classes instead of working out for NBA teams then he very well could be forgoing money. Also, it's a lot easier to earn your all-important degree when you presumably only need a few more credits as opposed to needing roughly 4 semesters-worth of credits.

Basically your argument is that it's OK to leave school for the NBA as long as you're not all that close to graduating. That doesn't sound like a very strong argument from someone who could have graduated from MU at age 14 

[muballer10]

If Lazar spent his summer taking a couple classes instead of working out for NBA teams then he very well could be forgoing money. Also, it's a lot easier to earn your all-important degree when you presumably only need a few more credits as opposed to needing roughly 4 semesters-worth of credits.

Basically your argument is that it's OK to leave school for the NBA as long as you're not all that close to graduating. That doesn't sound like a very strong argument from someone who could have graduated from MU at age 14 

My MU education taught me how to point out a strawman when I see one.

Please continue to put words in my mouth and pretend that 2 separate situations are the same thing. Who said anything about the summer? DJ, Wes, Burke, Jerel, Cubillan and Acker had no problem finishing up in time. By all accounts, Lazar should have followed suit and had no problem finishing up in four years. There was never any indication that Lazar was behind, so the NEED to finish up "in the summer" seemingly popped up second semester of his senior year. After seven successful semesters, it would have taken little or no effort to finish up. Had he done so his NBA payday would not have been affected at all. Gordon is faced with the decision "Should I go back to school or make millions of dollars". Lazar is not faced with that decision. Lazar is faced with "should I graduate, or stop trying because a degree isn't of monetary value to me". The former is ok. The latter is not. 

[g0lden3agle]

My MU education taught me how to point out a strawman when I see one.

Please continue to put words in my mouth and pretend that 2 separate situations are the same thing. Who said anything about the summer? DJ, Wes, Burke, Jerel, Cubillan and Acker had no problem finishing up in time. By all accounts, Lazar should have followed suit and had no problem finishing up in four years. There was never any indication that Lazar was behind, so the NEED to finish up "in the summer" seemingly popped up second semester of his senior year. After seven successful semesters, it would have taken little or no effort to finish up. Had he done so his NBA payday would not have been affected at all. Gordon is faced with the decision "Should I go back to school or make millions of dollars". Lazar is not faced with that decision. Lazar is faced with "should I graduate, or stop trying because a degree isn't of monetary value to me". The former is ok. The latter is not. 

Sounds like a lot of assumptions being made.

[reinko]

Acker and Cubes each had 5 years...

[MU B2002]

How do we know he didn't graduate? I know it is crazy to think they would leave out the name of probably the most well known senior on campus, but mistakes happen.  Who knows, maybe it was listed as Lazar Haywood, maybe it wasn't in alphabetical order, maybe the op missed it in the list, etc.


Did he / or didn't he?  I don't care, if he did congrats, if not I assume he will later.  I guess I don't see what the big deal is.  

[GGGG]

My MU education taught me how to point out a strawman when I see one.

Please continue to put words in my mouth and pretend that 2 separate situations are the same thing. Who said anything about the summer? DJ, Wes, Burke, Jerel, Cubillan and Acker had no problem finishing up in time. By all accounts, Lazar should have followed suit and had no problem finishing up in four years. There was never any indication that Lazar was behind, so the NEED to finish up "in the summer" seemingly popped up second semester of his senior year. After seven successful semesters, it would have taken little or no effort to finish up. Had he done so his NBA payday would not have been affected at all. Gordon is faced with the decision "Should I go back to school or make millions of dollars". Lazar is not faced with that decision. Lazar is faced with "should I graduate, or stop trying because a degree isn't of monetary value to me". The former is ok. The latter is not. 

Why is the latter not OK?  If he doesn't see any value in it, why should he waste time doing it?  He can always go back later if he changes his mind.

[muballer10]

Acker and Cubes each had 5 years...

touche good man.

[martyconlonontherun]

Sounds like a lot of assumptions being made.

Exactly, do we even know if Mo and David finished on time? All we know if they 'graduated' on Sunday, but may still be taking summer credits.

Also, could Lazar's stay with the USA team affect his ability to take summer classes? To me that, would be comparable to someone co-oping and taking an extra semester later on for engineers and accountants.

You are saying that it is wrong to make it an either or argument, but I feel your are making an argument that is wrong for being too extreme on the other end. Of course his focus on school could affect the amount of time in the gym, which would be key to future earnings. Just cause he doesn't get it now, doesn't mean he doesn't care about it. If an accountant like my friend takes a semester off to make money and learn about his field and takes 4.5 years, does that mean he doesn't care about his education. I mean he could always get experience later, he should've graduated in the mandatory 4 years.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Acker and Cubes each had 5 years...

cubes was only here for 4 years.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

When you are already a second semester senior, finishing up the few classes you have left is not hard. Sorry to burst the bubble to all the communications majors out there, but there is a reason all of the basketball players are in that school; its the easiest schedule. I think saying "the degree can wait" is a cop out, finishing what you started because it is the right thing to do shows the character that you speak of.

Your "pick this or that" example isn't fair because they are not mutually exclusive. He could have done both, and he should have done both. Other seniors who enter the draft (although those numbers are falling) are able to finish up their coursework and graduate. I spent a lot of time and energy searching for jobs, and accepted one in April. Since I put in a lot of effort, and I already got a job, would it be ok if I waited and got the degree later?

Lazar wasn't in Communications.  he was in Social welfare & Justice.   did anyone look at the A&S section of the program?

[muballer10]

Why is the latter not OK?  If he doesn't see any value in it, why should he waste time doing it?  He can always go back later if he changes his mind.

That just comes down to a fundamental difference in opinion, and that is perfectly fine. I was just pointing out the contradiction in being a great representative of the university, and at the same time, viewing the completion of the degree as "a waste of time". If Lazar was as great of an embodiment of the MU values as many have claimed, I would like to think that he would get a sense of pride when graduating with a MU degree and to even feel obligated to finish up. If you don't agree, that is certainly fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

[muballer10]

Lazar wasn't in Communications.  he was in Social welfare & Justice.   did anyone look at the A&S section of the program?

The ceremony was over 2 hours long, trust me I looked through the whole thing.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

The ceremony was over 2 hours long, trust me I looked through the whole thing.

I still remember my hangover from that day.  maybe you missed him.   

[muballer10]

Also, could Lazar's stay with the USA team affect his ability to take summer classes? To me that, would be comparable to someone co-oping and taking an extra semester later on for engineers and accountants.

Thats a great point. If so, then completely understandable. It just seems weird that we have never heard he was behind and the press release mentioned him in the same breath with Cubillan and Acker who were ready to walk. I could see how that committment could push him back though, which makes this different. I sort of viewed it as him entering semester 8 on time, and leaving semester 8 behind.

[bilsu]

cubes was only here for 4 years.

Acker was only here four years. He would have had some credits transfer from previous school.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

I still remember my hangover from that day.  maybe you missed him.   

Haha +1

[StillAWarrior]

I was just pointing out the contradiction in being a great representative of the university, and at the same time, viewing the completion of the degree as "a waste of time".

I think it is your assumption that Lazar views the completion of his degree as a waste of time that has caused a lot of people to react strongly to your posts.  Put simply, you have absolutely no idea.  Unless I missed something in this thread, nobody on this board has any idea.  Apparently his name was missing from the program -- and that's really all we know.

[MerrittsMustache]

From Rosiak's May 14 blog entry:
"Hayward, who took his last final exam on Friday and will graduate with a degree in social welfare and justice, plans on remaining in Milwaukee, where he'll continue individual skill workouts with former Milwaukee Bucks assistant coach Brian James and weight-room and conditioning workouts with MU's Todd Smith."

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/93834299.html

How should we spin that for it to mean he didn't graduate?

[copious1218]

"Hayward, who took his last final exam of the semester on Friday and will eventually graduate with a degree in social welfare and justice, " http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/93834299.html[/url]

How should we spin that for it to mean he didn't graduate?

Does that work?

[damuts222]

If Lazar was as great of an embodiment of the MU values as many have claimed, I would like to think that he would get a sense of pride when graduating with a MU degree and to even feel obligated to finish up. If you don't agree, that is certainly fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion.

Full plate of crow. Do you have something against Zar'??