Lazar graduating?

[muballer10]

One name missing from a program is probably not the smoking gun you think it is.

I think Lazar's work ethic for the last 4 years demands that we give him the benefit of the doubt rather than tabloid speculation.

That's fair. This is the sort of the thing that interests me when recruiting season is done and the Brewers blow.

[Hards Alumni]

ugh, I feel that pain all too well.

[damuts222]

 Or you can respect Lazar as a new alum of Marquette, whether or not he graduated. Those graduation booklets get many things incorrect as well. Lazar deserves the benefit of the doubt, and the original poster may or may not have just skimmed over his name making this topic null and void.

[GGGG]

Could you give me an example of publically available information that is not appropriate for a message board?

That is the point of message boards, and that is the point of THIS message board - to talk about all things Marquette basketball. We can talk about how great our graduation rate is. Marquette can write a article with the sole purpose of saying "our players graduated this year". We can take bits and pieces of interviews and publically crafted statements to assume Lazar is a deity. We cannot bring up the possibility that one did not graduate? All of a sudden that is inappropriate? Please.

To answer your first question...when someone posted Tim Maymon's arrest record.

And you did more than bring up the question of whether or not someone didn't graduate.  You extrapolated about his "screw it, my next job is basketball," and said "my gut says that if he didn't graduate on time in May, he won't for awhile, if at all."

[Benny B]

That's fair. This is the sort of the thing that interests me when recruiting season is done and the Brewers blow.

I'll tell you what's not fair... torpedoing what was shaping up to be a good debate by injecting common feelings of misery unrelated to the topic at hand.

[Marquette84]

What we do know is that the wording last year was far less ambiguous than 2010:

May 18, 2009

Milwaukee - The Marquette University men's basketball program added five more graduates Sunday afternoon when Trend Blackledge, Dwight Burke, Dominic James, Wesley Matthews and Jerel McNeal officially received their diplomas at the commencement ceremonies.

May 19, 2010

Graduation Day: Seniors Maurice Acker, David Cubillan and Lazar Hayward will participate in graduation ceremonies this weekend. Cubillan's mother and brother will be in attendance, marking the first time his mother will have visited campus during his career.

When this year's trio officially earns its degree, 61 of the last 64 Marquette players will have graduated over the course of the last 19 years and each of the 34 players to complete their respective eligibility since 1999-2000 will have joined the MU alumni group.

Its not unfair to conclude based on the wording that one of this year's players has not yet earned his degree--however, I don't think you can conclude it was Hayward.   

The use of the word "When" is extremely troubling for an institution that prides itself on academics.  Here's a completely accurate statement that demonstrates how phony the conditional statement is:  "When all of Bob Huggins' former players officially earn their degrees, Cincinnati basketball will demonstrate a 100% graduation rate."   

I also think people need to be less sensitive over the issue--there is absolutely nothing wrong with the fact that a player may need some extra time--note that Trend Blackledge was honored in 2009, even though his playing days ended in 2008. 

The right thing to do is honor players when they receive their degrees--not issue a "has he or hasn't he" carefully-worded release that leaves room for doubt.  If two of our players did earn their degrees, then they deserve nothing less than the same definitive statement we issued in 2009 regarding Blackledge, Burke, McNeal, Matthews and James.

[jt92]

I can't believe this dumb post got 30 responses...me included.

[martyconlonontherun]

Those graduation booklets get many things incorrect as well. Lazar deserves the benefit of the doubt, and the original poster may or may not have just skimmed over his name making this topic null and void.

There's no way they would miss Lazar's name. I'm sure someone would've caught it.

The point of an education at a Jesuit college is to improve the character and skills of a student. It looks like Lazar as grown as a person and is continuing to improve himself for his career. We are talking about millions of dollars on the line for this guys future, the official document can wait.

Honestly, if you had to chose between finishing school or applying across the country for an extremely high paying job that you love, what would you guys choose?

[beaconwarrior]

I'm not really sure why it's a dumb post... one of the greatest players ever at Marquette is leaving and wasn't at graduation.

At Marquette we also pride our athletes on their work in the classroom and graduation rates.

We all want to see Zar get drafted so I was just curious as to what could have happened to make him not graduate.

[cheebs09]

What we do know is that the wording last year was far less ambiguous than 2010:

May 18, 2009
May 19, 2010
Its not unfair to conclude based on the wording that one of this year's players has not yet earned his degree--however, I don't think you can conclude it was Hayward.   

The use of the word "When" is extremely troubling for an institution that prides itself on academics.  Here's a completely accurate statement that demonstrates how phony the conditional statement is:  "When all of Bob Huggins' former players officially earn their degrees, Cincinnati basketball will demonstrate a 100% graduation rate."   

I also think people need to be less sensitive over the issue--there is absolutely nothing wrong with the fact that a player may need some extra time--note that Trend Blackledge was honored in 2009, even though his playing days ended in 2008. 

The right thing to do is honor players when they receive their degrees--not issue a "has he or hasn't he" carefully-worded release that leaves room for doubt.  If two of our players did earn their degrees, then they deserve nothing less than the same definitive statement we issued in 2009 regarding Blackledge, Burke, McNeal, Matthews and James.

Looking at the dates, those happened at two different times in the graduation process. The 2010 one was released before the graduation, while the 2009 one was released after. So that could make a difference in the wording. With Labor Day being at a weird time last year, the first semester started after Labor Day instead of before like usual. Thus, the entire schedule was pushed back a week. Maybe we will see another announcement in the coming days. Also, that announcement for 2010 had a picture of all three players in caps and gowns. So, I just assume that Lazar was graduating.

[wildbillsb]

Maybe someone could simply ask Lazar if he has graduated - then report said answer to the rest of us.

[muballer10]

There's no way they would miss Lazar's name. I'm sure someone would've caught it.

The point of an education at a Jesuit college is to improve the character and skills of a student. It looks like Lazar as grown as a person and is continuing to improve himself for his career. We are talking about millions of dollars on the line for this guys future, the official document can wait.

Honestly, if you had to chose between finishing school or applying across the country for an extremely high paying job that you love, what would you guys choose?

When you are already a second semester senior, finishing up the few classes you have left is not hard. Sorry to burst the bubble to all the communications majors out there, but there is a reason all of the basketball players are in that school; its the easiest schedule. I think saying "the degree can wait" is a cop out, finishing what you started because it is the right thing to do shows the character that you speak of.

Your "pick this or that" example isn't fair because they are not mutually exclusive. He could have done both, and he should have done both. Other seniors who enter the draft (although those numbers are falling) are able to finish up their coursework and graduate. I spent a lot of time and energy searching for jobs, and accepted one in April. Since I put in a lot of effort, and I already got a job, would it be ok if I waited and got the degree later?

[MerrittsMustache]

Your "pick this or that" example isn't fair because they are not mutually exclusive. He could have done both, and he should have done both. Other seniors who enter the draft (although those numbers are falling) are able to finish up their coursework and graduate. I spent a lot of time and energy searching for jobs, and accepted one in April. Since I put in a lot of effort, and I already got a job, would it be ok if I waited and got the degree later?

Apples to oranges. If you did not finish your degree, the job offer likely would have been rescinded.

[GGGG]

Apples to oranges. If you did not finish your degree, the job offer likely would have been rescinded.

Not only that, but Lazar's job is potentially worth a salary of $400,000+. 

muballer's point is just silly.  If he has a few classes to wrap up, he can do so at any time.  Going "all in" in basketball is Lazar's best course of action because this is the best time in his life to do so.  No offense, but this is *why* he primarily came to school...to play basketball.  If he decides to come back and finish his degree, the door will always be open for him to do so.  If he doesn't, I don't really view it as a character flaw of any sort.

[muballer10]

Not only that, but Lazar's job is potentially worth a salary of $400,000+. 

muballer's point is just silly.  If he has a few classes to wrap up, he can do so at any time.  Going "all in" in basketball is Lazar's best course of action because this is the best time in his life to do so.  No offense, but this is *why* he primarily came to school...to play basketball.  If he decides to come back and finish his degree, the door will always be open for him to do so.  If he doesn't, I don't really view it as a character flaw of any sort.

Of course not, why would Lazar have a character flaw? He is the most model citizen and the best representative this University could ever expect. Maybe we should stop bragging about our graduation rate then. It is a good thing when it is 100%, but it doesn't matter when there is a better opportunity for a kid on the horizon. We have never had any indication that he was behind, so if there was an issue, it had to happen sometime in the last year. That is a 100%, "screw it, basketball is my job" attitude. If Lazar was your kid, would you tell him to finish up?

This hypocricy is similar to sticking out our noses at other schools with off the court issues and pretending issues with Patrick Hazel and Mo Acker (allegedly) never happened. You can't applaud something when it is good and ignore it when it is bad.

[GGGG]

Of course not, why would Lazar have a character flaw? He is the most model citizen and the best representative this University could ever expect. Maybe we should stop bragging about our graduation rate then. It is a good thing when it is 100%, but it doesn't matter when there is a better opportunity for a kid on the horizon. We have never had any indication that he was behind, so if there was an issue, it had to happen sometime in the last year. That is a 100%, "screw it, basketball is my job" attitude. If Lazar was your kid, would you tell him to finish up?

This hypocricy is similar to sticking out our noses at other schools with off the court issues and pretending issues with Patrick Hazel and Mo Acker (allegedly) never happened. You can't applaud something when it is good and ignore it when it is bad.

You said "I think saying "the degree can wait" is a cop out, finishing what you started because it is the right thing to do shows the character that you speak of. "

Logic says that if finishing his degree is a sign of character, then not finishing it is a character flaw.

And I don't think the grad rate needs to be 100% for it to be obvious that MU takes academics seriously with its athletes.  If the kids don't want to finish up, that's fine by me.  It isn't a black mark on the University if the grad rates dips below that mark.  It's not as though it's in Huggins territory...and hell the University's overall grad rate is less than 100%.  Why should we hold athletes to a higher standard than the overall student body?

[MerrittsMustache]

Of course not, why would Lazar have a character flaw? He is the most model citizen and the best representative this University could ever expect. Maybe we should stop bragging about our graduation rate then. It is a good thing when it is 100%, but it doesn't matter when there is a better opportunity for a kid on the horizon. We have never had any indication that he was behind, so if there was an issue, it had to happen sometime in the last year. That is a 100%, "screw it, basketball is my job" attitude. If Lazar was your kid, would you tell him to finish up?

This hypocricy is similar to sticking out our noses at other schools with off the court issues and pretending issues with Patrick Hazel and Mo Acker (allegedly) never happened. You can't applaud something when it is good and ignore it when it is bad.

Why would we, the fans and alums, know if Lazar was behind on his track to graduate? And why should it matter? I believe that a student-athlete graduates within 6 years of enrolling, he/she counts towards the graduation rate.

Hypothetically, let's say that Lazar needs 3 credits to graduate and he could finish up those credits this summer and earn his degree OR he could compete in the NBA combine, workout for NBA teams, participate in the NBA Summer League and come back next summer to finish his degree. What option do you feel would be best for Lazar's chosen career?

[reinko]

And I don't think the grad rate needs to be 100% for it to be obvious that MU takes academics seriously with its athletes.  If the kids don't want to finish up, that's fine by me.  It isn't a black mark on the University if the grad rates dips below that mark.  It's not as though it's in Huggins territory...and hell the University's overall grad rate is less than 100%.  Why should we hold athletes to a higher standard than the overall student body?

Valid point, 6 year grad rate at MU is 75%.  http://www.collegeresults.org/collegeprofile.aspx?institutionid=239105

[muballer10]

What do you think the overall student body graudation rate is for students receiving free tuition and a stipend? Im guessing it is north of 99%.

[reinko]

What do you think the overall student body graudation rate is for students receiving free tuition and a stipend? Im guessing it is north of 99%.

That's irrelevant, and you know it is.  The misconception that elite D-1 athletes have it "easy" is comical.

[Pakuni]

What do you think the overall student body graudation rate is for students receiving free tuition and a stipend? Im guessing it is north of 99%.

Really?
Given that MU athletes overall have a 93 percent graduation rate, I kind of doubt that.

And how many of those non-athletes have 20 hours of practice a week, plus games, plus travel, plus an expectation to work out/practice on their own, etc.? Not exactly apples to apples with your average student, is it?

I guess you know it's deep in the offseason when an entirely innocuous and vanilla press release can send some here into a tizzy.

[muballer10]

That's irrelevant, and you know it is.  The misconception that elite D-1 athletes have it "easy" is comical.

With their tutors, and in the communications school, I could have gotten a degree when I was in the 8th grade. I never said their life was easy, or graduation was necessarily "easy" for them, but it is something that should be accomplished when it is given to you.

[muballer10]

Really?
Given that MU athletes overall have a 93 percent graduation rate, I kind of doubt that.

And how many of those non-athletes have 20 hours of practice a week, plus games, plus travel, plus an expectation to work out/practice on their own, etc.? Not exactly apples to apples with your average student, is it?

I guess you know it's deep in the offseason when an entirely innocuous and vanilla press release can send some here into a tizzy.

I don't want this to turn into a straw man where everyone is fighting against the claim that every single basketball player must graduate. All that I said, and continue to maintain, is that when a player is viewed as the "perfect representative for the university" he should graduate. It is that simple, and doesn't need to be any harder than that. Wes did this whole spiel last year and graduated from the business school. DJ and Jerel went through the same thing as well. Stop making excuses.

[reinko]

With their tutors, and in the communications school, I could have gotten a degree when I was in the 8th grade. I never said their life was easy, or graduation was necessarily "easy" for them, but it is something that should be accomplished when it is given to you.

Congrats on your upbringing affording you the opportunity to go to good schools your whole life, and giving you the skills necessary to graduate from college in the 8th grade.  If we all could be so lucky. 

Judging by your username I imagine you just graduated, congratulations, it is a big deal, and everything doesn't come as easy to everyone.  Especially for those who had rough life growing up, struggling through school, being forced to go to a prep school to boost their grades and hopefully qualify to realize their dream of playing D-1 ball. 

Best of luck out there.

[muballer10]

Congrats on your upbringing affording you the opportunity to go to good schools your whole life, and giving you the skills necessary to graduate from college in the 8th grade.  If we all could be so lucky. 

I personally took on $70,000 of debt because I realize and respect that value of a Marquette education. 70% of my high school gets free lunch. Any other assumptions?

Listen, I love Lazar and I'm thankful for everything that he has done for the university, but I feel that we often give our players a free pass because they play hard and say the right things in the limited interviews they give. From what I have seen, he is nothing but a great person and Im grateful to have gotten the opportunity to see him play. On the flip side, I can admit that he is less than perfect, just like the rest of us.