Poll: Post Hiroshima

[Silent Verbal]

It's not that likely.

I hope you’re right.

[Herman Cain]

I wasn't aware that I defended Wojo. Hyperbole is just amusing to me.

I'll be honest, I don't give the tiniest crap where the Hausers end up unless its back here. I'm not sure why it matters.

Just proudly admit your a slurper.  Nothing wrong with that. 

[onepost]

What steps are left? We’ve been through more than one full recruiting cycle and have not one tangible something to show for it. Even more disturbing, we’ve seen negative idiosyncrasies exist throughout multiple iterations of Wojo teams (Carlino, Rowsey, Howard, defense, transfers, etc).

In the words of that one guy who I don’t know who he was; “they are who we thought they were!”

Denny Green - RIP

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

What steps are left? We’ve been through more than one full recruiting cycle and have not one tangible something to show for it. Even more disturbing, we’ve seen negative idiosyncrasies exist throughout multiple iterations of Wojo teams (Carlino, Rowsey, Howard, defense, transfers, etc).

In the words of that one guy who I don’t know who he was; “they are who we thought they were!”

To becoming a blue blood? Multiple decades of success.

First step was the rebuild. It took four years. The past season was the first year after the rebuild and was a success. Now we have to sustain and build upon that success. Losing the Hausers is a significant blow. I'm less confident now than I have ever been that Wojo can meet a season's expectations.

As for your negative idiosyncrisices. I don't consider Carlino, Rowsey, or Howard to be negatives. The defense was a strength for two seasons, a weakness for two seasons, and a strength in the most recent season. Transfers? These are the first transfers I am concerned about in the Wojo era.

[5DollarPitcher]

To becoming a blue blood? Multiple decades of success.

First step was the rebuild. It took four years. The past season was the first year after the rebuild and was a success. Now we have to sustain and build upon that success. Losing the Hausers is a significant blow. I'm less confident now than I have ever been that Wojo can meet a season's expectations.

As for your negative idiosyncrisices. I don't consider Carlino, Rowsey, or Howard to be negatives. The defense was a strength for two seasons, a weakness for two seasons, and a strength in the most recent season. Transfers? These are the first transfers I am concerned about in the Wojo era.

This is the thing with the Projos. No matter how much evidence you lay right in front of them - they refuse to look.

It’s no coincidence that Marquette’s slump came in the second half of the season. The half of the season where the Big East got their second crack at Wojo and Howard. By them time Wojo and company were dissected by the rest of the BEAST he was so confused that he puked a gameplan for Murray State that resulted in potentially the most embarrassing basketball performance from Marquette in modern history (no hyperbole). The man is not a good coach. Hanging on at this point is simply hoping against hope that he can just figure it out. And that doesn’t happen. Coaching is something you either can or cannot do. And Wojo is clearly a cannot do. Stop with the excuses and let’s all move on.

[MU82]

With that train of thought we'd have never hired Buzz.  We may have never hired Al McGuire!

What's hilarious is that the majority (or at least a sizable minority) of Scoopers didn't want Buzz.

And I could pretty much guarantee that if Scoop existed in 1964, folks would have just loved that we settled for a low-major guy who had gone 13-39 his last two seasons at Belmont Abbey and whose win total decreased every single year he was there.

So yeah, I don't blame the fire-him-this-instant crowd for not wanting to talk about who Wojo's replacement should be.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Just proudly admit your a slurper.  Nothing wrong with that.

But I'm not. I have zero love for Wojo. None. If he got fired today I wouldn't give the slightest of f*cks. From that moment on, I doubt I would dedicate any brain power towards him. My mind would already be onto what is best for the program. Who should we hire? What players can we retain? What players should be encouraged to leave? How do we ensure a smooth transition? How do we avoid another multi year rebuild, if we do need a rebuild how many years will it take?

You mistake patience for "slurping." I support Wojo because at the moment, him being successful gives my program the best chance for reaching the ultimate goal of a return to blue blood status. Firing him now is a non-option. You simply can't fire a coach coming off his best season. Plus, the window passed. The likelihood of Marquette landing a strong candidate at this point is slim to none. Much more likely to sink the program than save it. In my head, I am already thinking of what coaches we can quietly reach out to and have ready to take over the program if Wojo fails next season and needs to be fired. How Buzz ended up at TAMU may make some uncomfortable but that is how you pull off a coaching change.

History is full of leaders being overthrown and toppled. Most ended up being replaced by someone just as bad or worse than before. The few successful ones planned for what happens after the leader is removed from power.

[5DollarPitcher]

What's hilarious is that the majority (or at least a sizable minority) of Scoopers didn't want Buzz.

And I could pretty much guarantee that if Scoop existed in 1964, folks would have just loved that we settled for a low-major guy who had gone 13-39 his last two seasons at Belmont Abbey and whose win total decreased every single year he was there.

So yeah, I don't blame the fire-him-this-instant crowd for not wanting to talk about who Wojo's replacement should be.

This is the correct line of thinking. Whoever the “someone” is that’s out there that is next deserves their chance with Marquette’s coffers. Wojo had his chance and peed down his leg.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

This is the thing with the Projos. No matter how much evidence you lay right in front of them - they refuse to look.

It’s no coincidence that Marquette’s slump came in the second half of the season. The half of the season where the Big East got their second crack at Wojo and Howard. By them time Wojo and company were dissected by the rest of the BEAST he was so confused that he puked a gameplan for Murray State that resulted in potentially the most embarrassing basketball performance from Marquette in modern history (no hyperbole). The man is not a good coach. Hanging on at this point is simply hoping against hope that he can just figure it out. And that doesn’t happen. Coaching is something you either can or cannot do. And Wojo is clearly a cannot do. Stop with the excuses and let’s all move on.

Projos is clever. Not accurate but clever.

I don't think men who are "not a good coach" raise teams from nowhere near the postseason to 5 seed. I don't think it takes a great coach but I also don't think "not a good coach" could do it.

I also never bought the "they figured out Wojo out" argument. Evidence as you put it didn't fit. The Howard was injured argument made some sense to me. The team dysfunction argument makes some sense to me too. Truth is probably a mixed bag.

[5DollarPitcher]

Projos is clever. Not accurate but clever.

I don't think men who are "not a good coach" raise teams from nowhere near the postseason to 5 seed. I don't think it takes a great coach but I also don't think "not a good coach" could do it.

I also never bought the "they figured out Wojo out" argument. Evidence as you put it didn't fit. The Howard was injured argument made some sense to me. The team dysfunction argument makes some sense to me too. Truth is probably a mixed bag.

I will concede that all of these things likely played a role to varying degrees. But I believe a good to great coach would never be caught with his pants down the way Marquette was - regardless of the other factors.

And to your first point. Almost every analytic showed us as a massively overrated 5 seed and possibly the most overseeded team in the entire tournament. Throughout the year various analytics (Kenpom and others) has us at the edge of or outside the Top 25. The eye test showed that as well. A strong run through the first leg of a weak Big East inflated both our Top 25 and NCAAT ranking.  In the end, the number next to the name is arbitrary.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

I will concede that all of these things likely played a role to varying degrees. But I believe a good to great coach would never be caught with his pants down the way Marquette was - regardless of the other factors.

And to your first point. Almost every analytic showed us as a massively overrated 5 seed and possibly the most overseeded team in the entire tournament. Throughout the year various analytics (Kenpom and others) has us at the edge of or outside the Top 25. The eye test showed that as well. A strong run through the first leg of a weak Big East inflated both our Top 25 and NCAAT ranking.  In the end, the number next to the name is arbitrary.

We definitely disagree on the last point. I have found getting high seeds is the best indicator of success for a program.

But I agree, if you asked me if I thought we were the 17th best team in the country I would have told you no. I wouldn't have gone as low as KenPom (I think it was 28 at the time) did but I thought we were more like the 24th or 25th best team. But we did have the 17th best resume and our selection proved that. Personally, I think it is better to be the 25th best team and earn the 17th best resume than it is to be the 17th best team and earn the 25th best resume.

[Herman Cain]

But I'm not. I have zero love for Wojo. None. If he got fired today I wouldn't give the slightest of f*cks. From that moment on, I doubt I would dedicate any brain power towards him. My mind would already be onto what is best for the program. Who should we hire? What players can we retain? What players should be encouraged to leave? How do we ensure a smooth transition? How do we avoid another multi year rebuild, if we do need a rebuild how many years will it take?

You mistake patience for "slurping." I support Wojo because at the moment, him being successful gives my program the best chance for reaching the ultimate goal of a return to blue blood status. Firing him now is a non-option. You simply can't fire a coach coming off his best season. Plus, the window passed. The likelihood of Marquette landing a strong candidate at this point is slim to none. Much more likely to sink the program than save it. In my head, I am already thinking of what coaches we can quietly reach out to and have ready to take over the program if Wojo fails next season and needs to be fired. How Buzz ended up at TAMU may make some uncomfortable but that is how you pull off a coaching change.

History is full of leaders being overthrown and toppled. Most ended up being replaced by someone just as bad or worse than before. The few successful ones planned for what happens after the leader is removed from power.

The players don't trust the coach. Wojo has thrown too many of them under the bus over the years.  A lack of trust breeds a lack of success.

What you are missing is that Wojo is the classic corporate hack. That is why he got the job originally , he was expert at bunghole kissing with his powerpoint. However, like all corporate hacks, who are nothing more than stuffed shirts, they are eventually exposed for being the charlatans that they are. The Hauser Brothers did our program a favor by dramatically exposing Wojo for being the stuffed suit that he is.

The sooner MU gets rid of this guy the better off they will be. I say Fire Wojo today and hire Stan. The players actually respect Stan and given the new racial make up of the team I think it is important to have Stan in charge now.

[TheREALwrk]

Post Hiroshima.

As I dig through the rubble, things are becoming much more clear. In fact, I'm even seeing remnants of times past.

I don't think we need to wait for Big Daddy to tell us the story as to why Grimes came and went so quickly.

This nuke has blasted a crater in the program. And we're seeing a lot more skeletons in the proverbial closet.

[TheREALwrk]

The players don't trust the coach. Wojo has thrown too many of them under the bus over the years.  A lack of trust breeds a lack of success.

What you are missing is that Wojo is the classic corporate hack. That is why he got the job originally , he was expert at bunghole kissing with his powerpoint. However, like all corporate hacks, who are nothing more than stuffed shirts, they are eventually exposed for being the charlatans that they are. The Hauser Brothers did our program a favor by dramatically exposing Wojo for being the stuffed suit that he is.

The sooner MU gets rid of this guy the better off they will be. I say Fire Wojo today and hire Stan. The players actually respect Stan and given the new racial make up of the team I think it is important to have Stan in charge now.

Posted at the same time as me. All the walls are talking, Aina?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

The players don't trust the coach. Wojo has thrown too many of them under the bus over the years.  A lack of trust breeds a lack of success.

What you are missing is that Wojo is the classic corporate hack. That is why he got the job originally , he was expert at bunghole kissing with his powerpoint. However, like all corporate hacks, who are nothing more than stuffed shirts, they are eventually exposed for being the charlatans that they are. The Hauser Brothers did our program a favor by dramatically exposing Wojo for being the stuffed suit that he is.

The sooner MU gets rid of this guy the better off they will be. I say Fire Wojo today and hire Stan. The players actually respect Stan and given the new racial make up of the team I think it is important to have Stan in charge now.

So you're essentially saying that everyone hates Wojo...but Stan is so amazing that they all stay in spite of Wojo.

You're advocating for an emotional decision. Being part of an angry mob is fun, but it rarely leads to anything positive. If Wojo does need to go, the next hire is critical. Two consecutive failed rebuilds is the death knell for any program. Firing Wojo means the first one failed. You fail the second one and your program is mediocre likely for decades. The transition needs to be planned and well executed.

Stan is a helluva guy. Can obviously recruit and can make you want to run through a brick wall. I would not be confident in the Xs and Os or player development pieces of his game. Could be wrong, maybe he's the next Beard but that is not a transition that would give me confidence.

[onepost]

So you're essentially saying that everyone hates Wojo...but Stan is so amazing that they all stay in spite of Wojo.

...............

[5DollarPitcher]

We definitely disagree on the last point. I have found getting high seeds is the best indicator of success for a program.

But I agree, if you asked me if I thought we were the 17th best team in the country I would have told you no. I wouldn't have gone as low as KenPom (I think it was 28 at the time) did but I thought we were more like the 24th or 25th best team. But we did have the 17th best resume and our selection proved that. Personally, I think it is better to be the 25th best team and earn the 17th best resume than it is to be the 17th best team and earn the 25th best resume.

Yes but the second team in your postulate is more likely to make a S16 E8 run while the first is more likely to get blown out by a midmajor while giving up a triple double to a player/team that are subsequently easily handled by a similar seed. (Sorry, too specific?)

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Yes but the second team in your postulate is more likely to make a S16 E8 run while the first is more likely to get blown out by a midmajor while giving up a triple double to a player/team that are subsequently easily handled by a similar seed. (Sorry, too specific?)

Its possible. I'd need to check the math but my guess is high seeds do better than high KenPom. Could be wrong.

[5DollarPitcher]

Its possible. I'd need to check the math but my guess is high seeds do better than high KenPom. Could be wrong.

Now we’re just boiling it down to who is better at identifying accurate NCAA rankings:
Kenpom’s algorithm or Barry Alvarez, Condeleeza Rice, and the rest of the selection committee.

[NickelDimer]

...............

If this is the case, and it appears to be just name him the interim and use it as a one year trial. Wojo doesn’t deserve to keep his job.

[Coleman]

I hate this subject title. Just 2 atomic bombs have been used in warfare since 1945. The results were so horrific, we haven't seen such weapons deployed since.

It's beyond ridiculous to compare two college students leaving Marquette to an event such as Hiroshima. Come on, get a grip. We've managed to deal with the unexpected departures of players such as Jeronne Maymon, Deonte Burton, Vander Blue and Haanif Cheatham. We've had coaches pull up stakes and leave in the middle of the night. MU will get past this.

Well said

[Eldon]

If this is the case, and it appears to be just name him the interim and use it as a one year trial. Wojo doesn’t deserve to keep his job.

Has anyone seen Stan's PowerPoint skills?

(hint: they're awful)

[GoldenWarrior11]

Stan must read Scoop.

Stan Johnson
 
@MUCoachJohnson
Inhale.... exhale. Everything is going to be okay. Actually it’s going to be better than okay. Since the beginning of time God has chosen the unlikely to do the unimaginable.

[willie warrior]

But I'm not. I have zero love for Wojo. None. If he got fired today I wouldn't give the slightest of f*cks. From that moment on, I doubt I would dedicate any brain power towards him. My mind would already be onto what is best for the program. Who should we hire? What players can we retain? What players should be encouraged to leave? How do we ensure a smooth transition? How do we avoid another multi year rebuild, if we do need a rebuild how many years will it take?

You mistake patience for "slurping." I support Wojo because at the moment, him being successful gives my program the best chance for reaching the ultimate goal of a return to blue blood status. Firing him now is a non-option. You simply can't fire a coach coming off his best season. Plus, the window passed. The likelihood of Marquette landing a strong candidate at this point is slim to none. Much more likely to sink the program than save it. In my head, I am already thinking of what coaches we can quietly reach out to and have ready to take over the program if Wojo fails next season and needs to be fired. How Buzz ended up at TAMU may make some uncomfortable but that is how you pull off a coaching change.

History is full of leaders being overthrown and toppled. Most ended up being replaced by someone just as bad or worse than before. The few successful ones planned for what happens after the leader is removed from power.

With this latest fiasco. We are eons from obtaining blue blood status. And that sucks.

[JamilJaeJamailJrJuan]

This is the most Pro-Wojo post on this board. That is all you need to know about the state of affairs. Pretty sad.

Thank God the vast majority of fans, boosters and the MU brass think more highly of MU than this guy. Wojo is another day closer to the end of his contract for a reason. Not a good time to replace the coach but obviously not time to extend his contract. No faith in Wojo from MU administration. Wojo is most definitely on the clock.

I think very highly of MU.  I am an enormous fan.  I would put my fandom up against just about anybody.  But I am also realistic.  Marquette is in Milwaukee, Wisconsin.  Not exactly the easiest place to recruit.  It is smaller, private school in a cold weather city.  We have exactly 3 final 4 appearances in our history, and 1 in the last 42 years, and not one in over 15 years.  Since 2000, Marquette has made the tournament 12 times, and missed it 8.  Only advanced past the Sweet 16 two times.  Again, a very nice program. 

But we are not a blue blood, and will never be a blue blood.  One could make an argument that it is a top 20 program.  But I don't have these illusions that some people around here have that we should just can our coach at any sign of trouble - we are, afterall, coming off a 24-10 season and a top 16 seed in the tournament.  The most wins we've had since 2013.  A couple days ago Marquette was considered by most pundits to be a shoe-in top 10 team next season.  A couple kids transfer and now the world is ending and we need to fire Wojo?  Its just silly.   Who exactly are we going to hire? 

How next season shakes out and what the 2020 recruiting class ends up looking like are going to be make or break time for Wojo though, IMO.  I place a good deal of the blame for the Hauser situation on Wojo, but I also don't claim to have all the details, and knowing how much Wojo loves Sam, I am sure he did everything he could to keep him around short of telling Markus to GTFO.