NFC North/NFL Thread 2016-17

[GGGG]

But if Bradford plays like he did last year(even without considering better talent around him) this team will compete. It's all this offense requires.

So if he finishes 31 out of 33 in QBR, and 25 out of 35 in passer rating, that's all this offense requires?

Then how come they didn't do better last year with a CLEARLY better quarterback?

[DegenerateDish]

No it's not.

If the pick means that much to them(it doesn't)

They have so many picks stockpiled they could easy trade both 3rd next year for a early second round pick.

Now you got a early 2nd rounder and a late second rounder instead of a mid first and late second.

The vikes always make moves with picks, if they want to get somewhere they will make it happen.

Again, unless you can gurantee me that by tanking this year they can get Andrew Lucks doppleganger, it's a well thought risk.

Thank you for helping to validate my point.

If it was a well thought risk, and the Vikes apparently don't care about their first round picks, why didn't they trade for Bradford in March or April when he could have been had for a 4th or 5th round pick? By your logic, with all the extra picks Spielman stockpiles, why not use that extra mid round capital then to address the backup QB?

[brandx]

No it's not.

If the pick means that much to them(it doesn't)

They have so many picks stockpiled they could easy trade both 3rd next year for a early second round pick.

Now you got a early 2nd rounder and a late second rounder instead of a mid first and late second.

The vikes always make moves with picks, if they want to get somewhere they will make it happen.

Again, unless you can gurantee me that by tanking this year they can get Andrew Lucks doppleganger, it's a well thought risk.

Two 3rds will not get an early 2nd rounder - maybe a mid 2nd if both 3rds are in the 1st half of the round.

And where is the late 2nd rounder coming from?

[Jay Bee]

I'm wondering why you think Bradford is an improvement over Hill.

Bradford has proven to be an awful QB every single year in the NFL. There is not one shred of evidence that he is worthy of being a starter. I guess I would need to be shown how he is better than Hill.

Hill is an elderly man who has started in the NFL one season (8 games) in the past five seasons. Bradford is 28 and has started more than 60 games over that same time period.

There is a reason why.

[MU82]

I'm not going to argue most of this, but on the sidelines, Cutler hasn't been like Rodgers or Brady yelling openly at teammates. Yes, he has indifferent body language, but he actually has gone out of his way in the media to always support his teammates (see last week with Kevin White).

Well, he didn't "always support" this guy, and this was the blowup I remember ...

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000063455/article/jay-cutler-criticized-by-bears-teammate-for-yelling

[brandx]

Hill is an elderly man who has started in the NFL one season (8 games) in the past five seasons. Bradford is 28 and has started more than 60 games over that same time period.

There is a reason why.

Desperation?

Mark Sanchez had a higher QB rating as Philly's starting QB in 2014 than Bradford did in 2015.

And as for those 60+ games that Sam started - all they did was convince both teams to dump him as soon as they had a chance.

[PGsHeroes32]

Two 3rds will not get an early 2nd rounder - maybe a mid 2nd if both 3rds are in the 1st half of the round.

And where is the late 2nd rounder coming from?

When the Vikings finish around 10th in the NFL this year.

This will have the 20th pick in the second round, possibly better their schedule.

[PGsHeroes32]

So if he finishes 31 out of 33 in QBR, and 25 out of 35 in passer rating, that's all this offense requires?

Then how come they didn't do better last year with a CLEARLY better quarterback?

Uhhhhh I said the team will compete. I mean last year they went 11-5 and won the division so that's certainly even more than competing.

Clearly better?

Teddy passer rating was better by about 2. Yards per attempt and completion were basically identical. Both had very low int rates.

And yeah, Bradford played with a god awful supporting cast and no running game.

Again, Teddy is better. But if he can go 11-5 playing the NFC and AFC West I think Bradford can compete against his schedule.

Again, it's why no one around the league is bashing the move. He's all the offense needs.

Could just wait 8 weeks and get back to me?

[Pakuni]

I'm not going to argue most of this, but on the sidelines, Cutler hasn't been like Rodgers or Brady yelling openly at teammates. Yes, he has indifferent body language, but he actually has gone out of his way in the media to always support his teammates (see last week with Kevin White).

True.
Jay usually reserves his open disdain and yelling for the coaching staff.
Oh, and the ball boys.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Plus, he rips his own teammates, has terrible body language when facing adversity and makes facial expressions that convey, "It's not my fault. Blame them."

He is, in a word, a loser.

This is just lazy and shows how perceptions do not change even if the player and the behavior do change.

Cutler certainly earned that reputation. However, there has been a pretty significant change in his leadership, interactions with teammates, and dealing with the media over the past couple of years.

Fox and Pace would have jettisoned him already if that were still an issue.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Uhhhhh I said the team will compete. I mean last year they went 11-5 and won the division so that's certainly even more than competing.

Clearly better?

Teddy passer rating was better by about 2. Yards per attempt and completion were basically identical. Both had very low int rates.

And yeah, Bradford played with a god awful supporting cast and no running game.

Again, Teddy is better. But if he can go 11-5 playing the NFC and AFC West I think Bradford can compete against his schedule.

Again, it's why no one around the league is bashing the move. He's all the offense needs.

Could just wait 8 weeks and get back to me?

I've seen plenty of bashing of the move, and rightfully so. Bradford making the Vikes a better team after the injury and it being an awful trade are not mutually exclusive.

[DegenerateDish]

True.
Jay usually reserves his open disdain and yelling for the coaching staff.
Oh, and the ball boys.

I always loved the hot mic that picked up Cutler instructing the sideline to tell Martz "eff you".

[PGsHeroes32]

I've seen plenty of bashing of the move, and rightfully so. Bradford making the Vikes a better team after the injury and it being an awful trade are not mutually exclusive.

Well yeah, there have been loads of casual people like you and I bashing it.

But the "talking heads" so to speak, around the league have almost unanimously liked the move. Called it risky, but liked it.

Even that bumbling buffoon Herman Edwards liked it for both sides.

Also, if Zimmer is on board smart money is side with him. He's smarter than us all.

[wadesworld]

As a Packers fan, I love this move.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Well yeah, there have been loads of casual people like you and I bashing it.

But the "talking heads" so to speak, around the league have almost unanimously liked the move. Called it risky, but liked it.

Even that bumbling buffoon Herman Edwards liked it for both sides.

Also, if Zimmer is on board smart money is side with him. He's smarter than us all.

I guess I'm not sure which talking heads you're referring to. I understand going out and making a move. I'm just very surprised at the cost and that MN agreed to it. We'll see how it plays out.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You realize that 1st round picks are pro bowlers 30% of time right?

Well Bradford has a 1% chance of being a pro bowler this season so I guess the 30% is better, a ina?

I get that the Vikings are in win now mode but I don't see Bradford leading the Vikes to the playoffs. I think they fall just short with a mid level draft position without their first and fourth round picks.

[MU82]

This is just lazy and shows how perceptions do not change even if the player and the behavior do change.

Cutler certainly earned that reputation. However, there has been a pretty significant change in his leadership, interactions with teammates, and dealing with the media over the past couple of years.

Fox and Pace would have jettisoned him already if that were still an issue.

Oh, you've really wounded me with the lazy charge.

I gotta go take a nap now.

[brandx]

Could just wait 8 weeks and get back to me?

No prob.

[brandx]

The Rams traded Bradford to Philly last year in exchange for Nick effin Foles!

A year later, the Eagles were so disenchanted with Sam that they traded FIVE drft picks (including two first-rounders) to draft Carson Wentz. This was after the best 10 game stretch of his career and they still could see he was no good.

Shaun Hill has a better record as a starter, higher completion% as a starter, higher TD % as a starter and more yards per attempt as a starter.

After the Rams made Bradford the first pick in 2010, he never averaged more than 6.7 yards per pass. When Bradford missed the 2014 season with a torn ACL, with many of the same teammates in St. Louis, Hill started eight games for the Rams and averaged 7.2 yards per pass.

Bradford is where he is because he was a #1 overall pick. If he was drafted a dozen picks later, he is Mark Sanchez.


And let's not forget the Minny defense is good - not great. Their defense was only 12th in the league in points allowed per drive. If they rank 12th again, they might win 6 or 7 games.

[Jay Bee]

Desperation?

Mark Sanchez had a higher QB rating as Philly's starting QB in 2014 than Bradford did in 2015.

...this is about Bradford vs Hill, but... in 2015, Bradford 14 GS; Sanchez 2

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Oh, you've really wounded me with the lazy charge.

I gotta go take a nap now.

Sorry.  Maybe uninformed would have been more accurate. 

[MU82]

Sorry.  Maybe uninformed would have been more accurate.

Oh, please stop. This really hurts.

But do please continue educating the rest of us lazy dopes about the wonders of Jay Cutler, Winner Extraordinaire!

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Oh, please stop. This really hurts.

But do please continue educating the rest of us lazy dopes about the wonders of Jay Cutler, Winner Extraordinaire!

Yes, my intentions are to really hurt you with my scathing comments.

I'm not Cutler apologist.  I never said he he was a great QB or that he didn't earn his sh*tty reputation.  It was well-deserved.  But it's simply not the case anymore so what's the issue with calling someone out on that?  Your comments were lazy. 

He also has a foundation for kids with diabetes and does a lot of under the radar charity work from what I understand.  What a loser. 

[GGGG]

Yes, my intentions are to really hurt you with my scathing comments.

I'm not Cutler apologist.  I never said he he was a great QB or that he didn't earn his sh*tty reputation.  It was well-deserved.  But it's simply not the case anymore so what's the issue with calling someone out on that?  Your comments were lazy. 

He also has a foundation for kids with diabetes and does a lot of under the radar charity work from what I understand.  What a loser. 

He really should vaccinate his kids though.

[Pakuni]

Fox and Pace would have jettisoned him already if that were still an issue.

Would that be the same Ryan Pace and John Fox that brought on Ray McDonald last year?
Yep, they're all about character players.

Realistically, there's no way they could have jettisoned Cutler if they wanted to. There's zero trade market for a mediocre QB with a $17 million cap hit, and his contract was structured so that while cutting him after this season is easy, cutting him any earlier would be terrible for the Bears cap situation. They're not keeping Cutler because he's a changed man. They're keeping him because they have no choice.