MUScoop
MUScoop => The Superbar => Topic started by: jesmu84 on March 09, 2016, 09:17:03 PM
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Really liked the Bears' moves today.
The best one may have been moving Kyle Long back inside to guard.
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Agreed. Nice moves by the Bears yesterday. I'd still like to see them land a young CB but that'll likely be in the draft.
From a fan perspective, it hurts to officially lose Forte but at least he's not headed to the Packers.
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BJ Raji taking a 1 year hiatus from football, may return after next season.
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Bears add Akiem Hicks. Good signing. Bears' LB corps looks legit now - McPhee, Trevaithan, Freeman, Young/Houston. Plus Hicks upfront with the other current linemen. 2 above average corners - Porter/Fuller. Gotta get a safety.
Happy with Pace's decisions so far.
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BJ Raji taking a 1 year hiatus from football, may return after next season.
HGH
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HGH
Wouldn't be all that surprised. He's on a team with Clay, right?
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HGH
Eh. The whole league's taking the stuff, so I'd doubt it's anything like that. He's had plenty of injury issues, and while he was decent, he didn't exactly set the world on fire last year, so I'm taking him at his word on this. That said, I wouldnt be surprised to see the year hiatus turn into a 3-4 month hiatus and he actually ends up playing next year. Nor would I be surprised to see it turn into retirement a year from now.
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SKOL VIKINGS! Looking forward to another trip to the Super Bowl this coming season.
Hope you jerks don't drag our division down.
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SKOL VIKINGS! Looking forward to another trip to the Super Bowl this coming season.
Hope you jerks don't drag our division down.
Haven't you guys stunk up the SB enough already?
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Agreed. Nice moves by the Bears yesterday. I'd still like to see them land a young CB but that'll likely be in the draft.
From a fan perspective, it hurts to officially lose Forte but at least he's not headed to the Packers.
Eh, he's a running back with a lot of miles and injuries on the wrong side of 30. Probably good the bears let him walk. Langford should be serviceable.
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I was in Chicago during a Bears preseason game going into last season and Langford was in there. Thought he was going to be a stud. Still think he will.
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Eh, he's a running back with a lot of miles and injuries on the wrong side of 30. Probably good the bears let him walk. Langford should be serviceable.
Obviously, I have no problems with the Bears letting Forte walk, especially given what you mentioned, but he was a very good player for a long time and an excellent person. I'll be rooting for him to do well with the Jets.
What we've learned recently in the NFL is that there are a handful of "elite" RBs, there are quite a few lost-a-step RBs and the remaining RBs are basically interchangeable. A majority of a RB's success comes as a result of their system.
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I was in Chicago during a Bears preseason game going into last season and Langford was in there. Thought he was going to be a stud. Still think he will.
I think he'll be good. But Bears must have some hesitation with them trying to bring in CJ Anderson as well as talk of them taking Ezekiel Elliot if he falls in the draft.
Note: I would rather them take the ND OT or CB/S in the draft.
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I think he'll be good. But Bears must have some hesitation with them trying to bring in CJ Anderson as well as talk of them taking Ezekiel Elliot if he falls in the draft.
Note: I would rather them take the ND OT or CB/S in the draft.
I think it is BPA at 11, whether it is an offensive tackle, defensive lineman/edge rusher, or a CB. I haven't been following that closely but I don't think there's a safety that is being talked about as being worth that high of a pick.
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TT somewhat abandons his dumbazz policy and signs a free agent TE in Jared Cook. I like this pick up, an elite athlete at TE who finally has a qb throwing to him.
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TT somewhat abandons his dumbazz policy and signs a free agent TE in Jared Cook. I like this pick up, an elite athlete at TE who finally has a qb throwing to him.
I think he followed his policy to a 'T'. He is willing to sign FAs at his price. He will never overpay.
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Lord knows he doesn't need too much money lying around to sign most of his crappy draft picks after their initial contract. Maybe he was saving up for the those big kicker contracts he wanted to give.
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Lord knows he doesn't need too much money lying around to sign most of his crappy draft picks after their initial contract. Maybe he was saving up for the those big kicker contracts he wanted to give.
So he never signs free agents and "most" of his draft picks are "crappy," yet since he took over the Packers are a contender year after year and a top 5 organization in his time. Must be all luck.
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Guy wins a Super Bowl with his philosophy yet people still bitch.
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Lord knows he doesn't need too much money lying around to sign most of his crappy draft picks after their initial contract. Maybe he was saving up for the those big kicker contracts he wanted to give.
What is it like in your alternate universe?
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Obviously, I have no problems with the Bears letting Forte walk, especially given what you mentioned, but he was a very good player for a long time and an excellent person. I'll be rooting for him to do well with the Jets.
What we've learned recently in the NFL is that there are a handful of "elite" RBs, there are quite a few lost-a-step RBs and the remaining RBs are basically interchangeable. A majority of a RB's success comes as a result of their system.
If you view NFL positions as commodities I think the RB position is the most overvalued and oversupplied position in the NFL. IMO, the glut of adequate talent is due to the current players growing up in the heyday of the running back era (Emmit Smith, Thurman Thomas, etc). Teams are much better placed looking for QB and offensive line talent which is rarer and taking just a step behind the rest RB talent
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Eh, he's a running back with a lot of miles and injuries on the wrong side of 30. Probably good the bears let him walk. Langford should be serviceable.
"lot of miles and injuries"
8 seasons
16 games: 5 times
15 games: 1 time
13 games: 1 time
12 games: 1 time
8 games missed out of 128.
I understand the decision to let him leave, but let's not pretend it was a durability issue.
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How many years do you have to wait until you can critique TT again? 5 years? 10?
It's obvious he hit the jackpot with Rodgers and that's why we won the SB and should have won another by now. TT has been unable to draft a good defense and now o line.
At least McCarthy finally called out TT for his ineptitude in free agency personnel decisions this offseason. Bout time.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/24/report-mccarthy-fed-up-with-thompsons-approach-to-free-agency/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/24/report-mccarthy-fed-up-with-thompsons-approach-to-free-agency/)
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How many years do you have to wait until you can critique TT again? 5 years? 10?
It's obvious he hit the jackpot with Rodgers and that's why we won the SB and should have won another by now. TT has been unable to draft a good defense and now o line.
At least McCarthy finally called out TT for his ineptitude in free agency personnel decisions this offseason. Bout time.
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/24/report-mccarthy-fed-up-with-thompsons-approach-to-free-agency/ (http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/24/report-mccarthy-fed-up-with-thompsons-approach-to-free-agency/)
If McCarthy wouldn't have completely effed up the Seahawks game we would have another SB. Maybe Mac should worry about coaching the pieces he has in place instead of worrying about the pieces Ted isn't going to overpay to get.
I can guarantee you about 30 other NFL franchises would kill to have TT as their GM. I don't think you can come close to 30 other NFL franchises who would kill to have Mike McCarthy as their head coach.
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No way bro. :)
I'm definitely excited about the Cook signing though. He's gonna blow up next year.
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SKOL VIKINGS!
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If I'm the Bears, I want no part of pursuing/signing Josh Norman.
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If I'm the Bears, I want no part of pursuing/signing Josh Norman.
Why?
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Why?
Other than the obvious glaring red flags?
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I would rather the Bears not sign Norman too.
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It bugs me reading Chicago media guys be very meatball all in on Norman, ignoring major red flags.
-28 years old, one pretty good year and one very good year (in a contract year)
-Succeded playing zone coverage (I'll give Norman credit in that he'd probably be alright in man)
-Will want long term deal averaging at least the tag number, and guaranteed money highest ever for a CB
-His own team (who was in desperate need for a corner), gave up on him, when they could have gotten more than a 2017 3rd round compensatory pick for him via trade
-The unknown of only what the Panthers know
If there ever was a "buyer beware " player, it's Norman.
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IMHO, the Scalping Savages overpaid for Josh Norman, but he probably will have 2-3 very good years for them if he stays healthy.
The Panthers must have been very concerned about Norman's psychological makeup to have removed the franchise tag. I would have kept him for next season, but I don't know the inner workings of the situation.
It's hard for me to criticize the GM too much. The Panthers have won the division in all three of his seasons with the team and almost all of his decisions have been spot-on. (Franchise-tagging Hardy ended up being a mistake, but pretty much any GM would have given the info the Panthers had then.)
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Fascinating first round, never seen anything like that before with the Tunsil drama unfolding. Very rough night for Ole Miss.
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Fascinating first round, never seen anything like that before with the Tunsil drama unfolding. Very rough night for Ole Miss.
As a bears guy, did you like their move? Personally, I did not. Could have sat at 11 and taken BPA. Leonard may have still been available, Hargreaves or Tunsil as well. Felt like they made a move they didn't need to.
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Thought it was gonna be Ragland or Jack for GB. But read that both had medical issues.
Don't know much about this DT, but seems like a solid pick with BJ gone.
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As a bears guy, did you like their move? Personally, I did not. Could have sat at 11 and taken BPA. Leonard may have still been available, Hargreaves or Tunsil as well. Felt like they made a move they didn't need to.
Thought this too as they essentially got another John Thiery/Shea McClellin. But with the 3-4, this was the thinking with a defense comprised of misfit toys already.
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Pack should have traded down, easily get a 34 d lineman in picks 40-50. Linebacker is the athlete position worthy of 1st round in 34 d.
Hopefully this Bruin is better than Datone Jones and his 14 tackles.
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Pack should have traded down, easily get a 34 d lineman in picks 40-50. Linebacker is the athlete position worthy of 1st round in 34 d.
Hopefully this Bruin is better than Datone Jones and his 14 tackles.
Should and can are two different things. Have to have trading partners with interest in moving up and the assets to make the move worth it for the packers.
The uneducated fan that I am, I was begging them to take Jack with that pick but maybe there is something more to the knee than is being reported. The way the draft is shaping up the Pack could still get a very solid ILB in round 2 or 3
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More of a logistics question about the draft. With the change to format, round 1 Thursday, round 2 Friday, 3-4 Saturday, remainder Sunday, do we think that helps or hurts the teams for drafting successfully? So after the first two rounds they get to take a bit of a breather, reset their draft boards, talk to some teams and get ready to go again, whereas in the past the first 4 rounds were fast and furious and you never really got a break.
I know this was all done for revenue purposes but do we think this helps teams make better picks in the early rounds and/or make it more volatile with trades and stuff?
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As a bears guy, did you like their move? Personally, I did not. Could have sat at 11 and taken BPA. Leonard may have still been available, Hargreaves or Tunsil as well. Felt like they made a move they didn't need to.
I know you didn't as me but as another Bears guy...I'm not a fan of the pick. Floyd is an outstanding athlete but he's undersized and didn't produce much in college. As Doc said, it feels like a Thierry/McClellin redux. Personally, I would have liked to see them take Hargreaves but also would have been pleased with Apple, Tunsil or even Lee. I hope I'm wrong but trading up to draft a project in the top 10 doesn't seem wise for a talent-deficient team.
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Should and can are two different things. Have to have trading partners with interest in moving up and the assets to make the move worth it for the packers.
The uneducated fan that I am, I was begging them to take Jack with that pick but maybe there is something more to the knee than is being reported. The way the draft is shaping up the Pack could still get a very solid ILB in round 2 or 3
I believe he's admitted that he'll likely need microfracture surgery at some point before too long. He's potentially a guy who plays 2-3 years and is done. Obviously, all these guys are, but most NFL teams don't want to take any chances with medical red flags, especially early in the draft.
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34 lineman are a dime a dozen.*
But seriously they are. They are asked to stuff a gap...why we are spending 1st round picks on fattened 34 d lineman I'll never know.
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New GM in Detroit realizes the secret to success is to keep Stafford standing up and to create holes for the running backs, which will also keep Stafford on his feet. Satisfied with the pick at 16.
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The things I dislike about the Floyd pick are giving up a 4th to get him, and that Floyd turns 24 in September.
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34 lineman are a dime a dozen.*
But seriously they are. They are asked to stuff a gap...why we are spending 1st round picks on fattened 34 d lineman I'll never know.
I don't think they are a dime a dozen. When Raji was at his prime, the Packers' defense was much better than it has been recently. I would agree that you can find a bunch of "good" ones, but a "very good" one can make a significant difference.
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Fascinating first round, never seen anything like that before with the Tunsil drama unfolding. Very rough night for Ole Miss.
Everything about that was why college football is so awesome, so terrible, and why I love it so much. Including the head coach with the cadence of a southern preacher.
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As a bears guy, did you like their move? Personally, I did not. Could have sat at 11 and taken BPA. Leonard may have still been available, Hargreaves or Tunsil as well. Felt like they made a move they didn't need to.
Agreed...It just feels like Floyd is another "McClellin" but who knows, he might end up being another "misfit" defensive player like the "safety" they pulled from New Mexico.
I also agree that I would have preferred not giving up a draft pick to get to him but it sounds like NYG were going to pull the trigger on floyd so I guess Pace did what he felt he needed to.
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I think Floyd is Aldon Smith. I love the pick. Now I'm hoping Connor Cook is available in the second round and the Bears take him. Let him learn under Cutler while Jay plays out his contract then hand him the keys.
If available, Myles Jack would be nice too
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Connor Cook in the second round is going to make some team very happy. The whole 'lack of leadership' thing is peepeekaka.
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I think Floyd is Aldon Smith. I love the pick. Now I'm hoping Connor Cook is available in the second round and the Bears take him. Let him learn under Cutler while Jay plays out his contract then hand him the keys.
If available, Myles Jack would be nice too
I hope you're right about Floyd, but Smith was 30 pounds heavier and actually had some production in college.
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Everything about that was why college football is so awesome, so terrible, and why I love it so much. Including the head coach with the cadence of a southern preacher.
It was like an episode of Ballers, the entire saga was incredible to watch unfold on live tv.
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In terms of Floyd, it's a boom or bust pick. It fills a need and the ceiling is high (as the floor is low). If this was their guy and they were confident the NYG were going to take him I respect the conviction to go get him.
It sounds like the reason for his lack of productivity in terms of pure numbers in college is how Georgia used him - he did not have a consistent role.
I don't like the McClellin comparison simply because it is a different front office and coaching staff, it sounds like Floyd is more explosive, and I don't believe they are going to miscast him as a d-lineman who puts his hand in the dirt like the previous regime did with McClellan. It also sounds like he should be able to put on some more muscle and add strength.
Ultimately, Fox and Fangio have pretty good track records so if Floyd was the guy they and the front office wanted I'm going to put my trust in their evaluations for now.
Seems like their is still plenty of D-line depth available and the Bears still need help in the secondary.
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I believe he's admitted that he'll likely need microfracture surgery at some point before too long. He's potentially a guy who plays 2-3 years and is done. Obviously, all these guys are, but most NFL teams don't want to take any chances with medical red flags, especially early in the draft.
I totally get this, and cant really criticize a team for not taking him. At that same time, that timeframe aligns loosely with the Aaron Rodgers window. Not even close to Ted Thompson's style, but if he can give you three good year (big if, I know), and who knows after that, I'd have to think about it, depending on exactly where that pick is and alternatives available of course. The doctors always win these arguments - as they probably should.
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Thought it was gonna be Ragland or Jack for GB. But read that both had medical issues.
Don't know much about this DT, but seems like a solid pick with BJ gone.
all i know about ken clark is what ESPN said during the pick-he's big, pretty fast for his size, but most importantly, he was a leader and captain, i believe for UCLA's defense. i like the captain thingy though. oh, and no bong hits or caught dancing to any justin bieber songs on the internet-we'll start there and can only move up!
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Everything about that was why college football is so awesome, so terrible, and why I love it so much. Including the head coach with the cadence of a southern preacher.
How is Tunsil saying he took money from a coach not more of a story? Or the fact that when that topic was pressed, his interview was immediately cut off.
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How is Tunsil saying he took money from a coach not more of a story? Or the fact that when that topic was pressed, his interview was immediately cut off.
It's an Ole Miss story, not a Tunsil one. A poor ass 21 year old texted a coach asking for $ for his mom, and the coach obliged.
Todd McShay had a hot take and called out Tunsil for being immature about telling reporters the truth. F him.
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It's an Ole Miss story, not a Tunsil one. A poor ass 21 year old texted a coach asking for $ for his mom, and the coach obliged.
Todd McShay had a hot take and called out Tunsil for being immature about telling reporters the truth. F him.
I didn't mean it had to be about Tunsil. Just about the story in general. Let's all stop pretending that significant impermissible benefits don't change hands. Yea, I know, it's a "don't ask, don't tell" situation with anyone who knows about high-level college sports. But make it public, crying out loud.
I wish every player who got some benefit would immediately stand up there at the draft (or just after) and tell the truth. Eventually, the NCAA, schools, etc aren't going to be able to hide the blatant rule breaking that's going on.
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Super Bowl, homeboy.
SKOL VIKINGS!!!!!
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All in all, pleased with the Bears' draft. I felt they reached for Floyd. But in the second and third rounds, when their guy was taken ahead of them, they traded down and gathered more picks. I loved the Bullard pick. And I think Whitehair will be a successful pro.
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Kinda sad that Lowry went to the Packers, admittedly a good pick for them though. I'm probably over thinking it but I wonder if it will affect him being from Illinois and going to Northwestern and then being drafted by the Packers. I'm sure once he gets that first pay check hell be alright.
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It's an Ole Miss story, not a Tunsil one. A poor ass 21 year old texted a coach asking for $ for his mom, and the coach obliged.
Todd McShay had a hot take and called out Tunsil for being immature about telling reporters the truth. F him.
Poor ass 21 year old.....break my heart....looks like he was able to spend money on other things...priorities, priorities, priorities. Some people are "poor" because they spend money...poorly.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DaOPv3AnO14/maxresdefault.jpg)
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Kinda sad that Lowry went to the Packers, admittedly a good pick for them though. I'm probably over thinking it but I wonder if it will affect him being from Illinois and going to Northwestern and then being drafted by the Packers. I'm sure once he gets that first pay check hell be alright.
He's alright now. It's a job.
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Kinda sad that Lowry went to the Packers, admittedly a good pick for them though. I'm probably over thinking it but I wonder if it will affect him being from Illinois and going to Northwestern and then being drafted by the Packers. I'm sure once he gets that first pay check hell be alright.
Bulaga didn't have a problem with it. Usually going to one of the best franchises in pro sports is welcomed, his words, not mine.
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Bulaga didn't have a problem with it. Usually going to one of the best franchises in pro sports is welcomed, his words, not mine.
I know, I'm just thinking of it from a fans perspective. Not as a job. Happy for Lowry to get drafted as high as he did. Still awaiting a tweet though about getting drafted :P
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Kinda sad that Lowry went to the Packers, admittedly a good pick for them though. I'm probably over thinking it but I wonder if it will affect him being from Illinois and going to Northwestern and then being drafted by the Packers. I'm sure once he gets that first pay check hell be alright.
I'm not trying to be a jerk, but is this a serious or sarcastic post?
I don't care where you're from, who you cheer for growing up...all that matters is who drafts you.
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All in all, pleased with the Bears' draft. I felt they reached for Floyd. But in the second and third rounds, when their guy was taken ahead of them, they drafted down and gathered more picks. I loved the Bullard pick. And I think Whitehair will be a successful pro.
The biggest key to success in drafting is having more picks than the other guys.
A very inexact science - the more picks you have, the better chance of striking gold.
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packers tj lang welcomes new OT jason spriggs to green bay-
Welcome Spriggs! I chew skoal wintergreen and like my coffee 2 creams, 2 sugars.
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I'm not trying to be a jerk, but is this a serious or sarcastic post?
I don't care where you're from, who you cheer for growing up...all that matters is who drafts you.
+73
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Kinda sad that Lowry went to the Packers, admittedly a good pick for them though. I'm probably over thinking it but I wonder if it will affect him being from Illinois and going to Northwestern and then being drafted by the Packers. I'm sure once he gets that first pay check hell be alright.
I heard on the news that both his parents are Marquette grads.
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Poor ass 21 year old.....break my heart....looks like he was able to spend money on other things...priorities, priorities, priorities. Some people are "poor" because they spend money...poorly.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/DaOPv3AnO14/maxresdefault.jpg)
so you've never accepted a cocktail, beer, glass of wine, hit, bump or tab from someone without giving them $? or have you always been substance free?
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so you've never accepted a cocktail, beer, glass of wine, hit, bump or tab from someone without giving them $? or have you always been substance free?
Drug free.
Yes, I've accepted beer, glass of wine, cocktail. I'm also not naive, this wasn't his first hit and it doesn't take much looking to prove that out.
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friends don't let friends take pics/videos of you doing a bong hit with a gas mask costing you roughly $8 mil
whoever posted that video better have access to a good bodyguard,preferably one with navy seal training and rambo-like mentality, food taster, bomb sniffing dogs and taekwondo instructor-i'm sure i may have missed some things
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Drug free.
Yes, I've accepted beer, glass of wine, cocktail. I'm also not naive, this wasn't his first hit and it doesn't take much looking to prove that out.
But that wasn't your point. Your point was that he chose to spend money on pot and therefore had to ask a coach for money for his Mom. An accusation for which you have exactly zero personal knowledge (which is shocking btw).
It would be like me seeing a picture of you on Facebook having a glass of wine at a friends house and assuming you are constantly mooching off your social circle. Could my assessment be accurate? Absolutely. Should I put it forth as fact?
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Kinda sad that Lowry went to the Packers, admittedly a good pick for them though. I'm probably over thinking it but I wonder if it will affect him being from Illinois and going to Northwestern and then being drafted by the Packers. I'm sure once he gets that first pay check hell be alright.
http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/dean-lowry-savors-new-view-of-packers-bears-b99729774z1-380356941.html
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Story about the NFL's abuse of Toradol.
http://www.sbnation.com/2016/8/3/12310124/comfortably-numb-the-nfl-fell-in-love-with-a-painkiller-it-barely-knew?_ga=1.146393265.482514082.1470144519
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Outstanding article. Painkillers are the next battle that the NFL is going to have to fight. Like concussions, it's unreasonable to expect athletes to know or act in their health interests when it so clearly contradicts their career interests. The only way you do that is to remove the decisions from their hands. Sure, educate the athletes, but it's on the team physicians to act in the best interests of the player.
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Outstanding article. Painkillers are the next battle that the NFL is going to have to fight. Like concussions, it's unreasonable to expect athletes to know or act in their health interests when it so clearly contradicts their career interests. The only way you do that is to remove the decisions from their hands. Sure, educate the athletes, but it's on the team physicians to act in the best interests of the player.
Also leads to a discussion around medicinal marijuana as a lower impact alternative to painkillers.
And why are painkillers an acceptable performance enhancer but HGH is not? Both have legitimate medical usage and can be abused, why make a distinction?
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Also leads to a discussion around medicinal marijuana as a lower impact alternative to painkillers.
And why are painkillers an acceptable performance enhancer but HGH is not? Both have legitimate medical usage and can be abused, why make a distinction?
Because the NFL makes its decisions in the vacuum of public opinion, and public awareness hasn't caught up to this issue. Medical marijuana is a confusing scenario because of its real benefits in temporary pain management and no one is confusing it as a "performance enhancer"
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The funny thing is, there are studies out there that say Toradol is no more efficacious than Ibuprofen. Patients who receive either one blindly say they work about the same for reducing pain/inflammation. I'd love to see the NFL try and crack down on an OTC pain-reliever.
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The funny thing is, there are studies out there that say Toradol is no more efficacious than Ibuprofen. Patients who receive either one blindly say they work about the same for reducing pain/inflammation. I'd love to see the NFL try and crack down on an OTC pain-reliever.
Tornados is brutal on the kidneys. Ibuprofen is an amazing pain killer if taken properly. Problem is, ya don't get a buzz like hydrocodones and oxycodone. NSAIDs work at the source of the pain, opioids trick your brain into "not feeling" the pain. I took a conscious sedation class during which they reviewed all the pain relievers-their studies showed that ibuprofen was the most effective when taking 3 x 200 mg every 8-12 hours initially then every 12. One needs to get a blood level going. I love it when someone tells me, "but I don't like taking pills". But they are raging alcoholics or smoke dope like a rastaman
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Did anyone miss the Hall of Fame game last night? Nope, me neither. Will say the NFL finds new ways to be incompetent with each passing season. I especially enjoyed all the people pointing out on twitter that if the field in Canton was unplayable what does the NFL think of Soldier Field in November.
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Someone's boulders outta roll. No need to wait 'til Sunday ta figure da field is rock hard. What were dey waitin' on, a monsoon or somethin' ta soften up da turf, hey?
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Did anyone miss the Hall of Fame game last night? Nope, me neither. Will say the NFL finds new ways to be incompetent with each passing season. I especially enjoyed all the people pointing out on twitter that if the field in Canton was unplayable what does the NFL think of Soldier Field in November.
If the Bears don't go to turf, they should at least get someone besides the Chicago Park District to maintain that grass. May I recommend the Diaz Bros?
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Someone's boulders outta roll. No need to wait 'til Sunday ta figure da field is rock hard. What were dey waitin' on, a monsoon or somethin' ta soften up da turf, hey?
The field was in use on Friday night, so the paint that caused the issue wasn't put down until Saturday. There was nothing wrong with the field itself (I walked on it on Friday), it was the paint they used for the logos, etc.
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Halftime at Soldier's tonight was the frisbee dogs. One of the dogs relieved itself at the 50.
Potential sign of things to come this year.
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Halftime at Soldier's tonight was the frisbee dogs. One of the dogs relieved itself at the 50.
Potential sign of things to come this year.
What? Even the dogs are already pissed off?
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Halftime at Soldier's tonight was the frisbee dogs. One of the dogs relieved itself at the 50.
Potential sign of things to come this year.
Cutler's going to literally have the pissed sacked out of him?
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Cutler's going to literally have the pissed sacked out of him?
Actually, Cutler's literally going to have the piss sacked INTO him!
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What's happening to Peppers, Matthews, etc., is ridiculous. NFL is putting those guys in total no win situation, I strongly disagree with the NFL here.
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What's happening to Peppers, Matthews, etc., is ridiculous. NFL is putting those guys in total no win situation, I strongly disagree with the NFL here.
This is inevitably the result of the Deflategate ruling. The courts have ruled that the NFL *can* do this because of the poor CBA signed with the players association.
Interesting that Peyton Manning was conveniently "cleared" after retiring although mentioned in the same report.
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What's happening to Peppers, Matthews, etc., is ridiculous. NFL is putting those guys in total no win situation, I strongly disagree with the NFL here.
Disagree. They could have easily "won" by cooperating with the league and putting this behind them. Unless, of course, they're guilty of doing something wrong. Let's face it, Peppers has been busted before (for "unknowingly" taking a banned substance ::)), Matthews has had PED red flags attached to him since his USC days and Harrison's best seasons began about the time most players begin to decline. No one should be at all surprised if these guys were getting some unnatural help.
This is inevitably the result of the Deflategate ruling. The courts have ruled that the NFL *can* do this because of the poor CBA signed with the players association.
Interesting that Peyton Manning was conveniently "cleared" after retiring although mentioned in the same report.
Manning met with NFL officials and cooperated with the investigation before he was cleared. The others easily could have done the same.
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This is inevitably the result of the Deflategate ruling. The courts have ruled that the NFL *can* do this because of the poor CBA signed with the players association.
Interesting that Peyton Manning was conveniently "cleared" after retiring although mentioned in the same report.
That's what ticks me off, is the Manning thing here. I can't say Manning threw these guys inadvertently under the bus, but Manning did these guys zero favors by agreeing to be interviewed. That's my beef here, you have a guy who recanted his allegations, a now defunct news organization (in the US) that reported this, and Manning got cleared. I get the process is a binding negotiated procedure, but I feel going after these guys is flat out wrong.
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Disagree. They could have easily "won" by cooperating with the league and putting this behind them. Unless, of course, they're guilty of doing something wrong. Let's face it, Peppers has been busted before (for "unknowingly" taking a banned substance ::)), Matthews has had PED red flags attached to him since his USC days and Harrison's best seasons began about the time most players begin to decline. No one should be at all surprised if these guys were getting some unnatural help.
Manning met with NFL officials and cooperated with the investigation before he was cleared. The others easily could have done the same.
Be that as it may, the unintended consequence potential here is to blow the door off of Pandora's Box, that's the real issue here if these guys agree to get interviewed. I don't envy these guys, this is a total no win situation with whatever they decide. The new CBA in 20'/21' will address this situation, but the next few years could be a long news cycle of accusations/investigations.
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Be that as it may, the unintended consequence potential here is to blow the door off of Pandora's Box, that's the real issue here if these guys agree to get interviewed. I don't envy these guys, this is a total no win situation with whatever they decide. The new CBA in 20'/21' will address this situation, but the next few years could be a long news cycle of accusations/investigations.
With all due respect, I don't get why it's a no win situation for these players. Peyton Manning talked to the NFL, cleared his name and is moving on. If these guys talk, is there going to be a rise in PED accusations among random media outlets?
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Disagree. They could have easily "won" by cooperating with the league and putting this behind them. Unless, of course, they're guilty of doing something wrong. Let's face it, Peppers has been busted before (for "unknowingly" taking a banned substance ::)), Matthews has had PED red flags attached to him since his USC days and Harrison's best seasons began about the time most players begin to decline. No one should be at all surprised if these guys were getting some unnatural help.
Manning met with NFL officials and cooperated with the investigation before he was cleared. The others easily could have done the same.
OK I understand the Manning difference.
But Matthews, et. al., who are passing PED tests according to the terms of the CBA in place, are being asked to submit to an interview based on the same, generic reasoning under which Brady was suspended. The NFL doesn't need to have proof of anything...just an accusation that something bad happened.
I'm not saying the NFL *can't* do this. They clearly can. I am saying that this is a result of that Brady ruling, the weak CBA and IMO is an overreach.
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With all due respect, I don't get why it's a no win situation for these players. Peyton Manning talked to the NFL, cleared his name and is moving on. If these guys talk, is there going to be a rise in PED accusations among random media outlets?
Here's an example: Let's say Matthews agrees to get interviewed, and a few questions he refuses to answer. He's not wrong to not answer them (this isn't a court of law). But is his answer perceived as implicit guilt? Ultimately the NFL can decide to do what it wants with his answers.
There is so much gray area involved as to what the NFL's limits (or lack thereof) for investigative purposes are. Could the league potentially threaten to suspend a player if he didn't hand over his cell phone for an investigation?
These guys agreeing to interviews would create a precedent where anytime a media organization accuses a player of something, the player is going to be subject to an interview. This plays into then following the money...media organizations have significant financial incentives to pursue accusations against NFL players.
Someone with a law background can probably explain better than I can, but this has potential to be a real mess.
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Here's an example: Let's say Matthews agrees to get interviewed, and a few questions he refuses to answer. He's not wrong to not answer them (this isn't a court of law). But is his answer perceived as implicit guilt? Ultimately the NFL can decide to do what it wants with his answers.
There is so much gray area involved as to what the NFL's limits (or lack thereof) for investigative purposes are. Could the league potentially threaten to suspend a player if he didn't hand over his cell phone for an investigation?
These guys agreeing to interviews would create a precedent where anytime a media organization accuses a player of something, the player is going to be subject to an interview. This plays into then following the money...media organizations have significant financial incentives to pursue accusations against NFL players.
Someone with a law background can probably explain better than I can, but this has potential to be a real mess.
Juiced, Game of Shadows, Balco, Biogenesis, etc. Perhaps the NFL is simply doing their due diligence.
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Here's an example: Let's say Matthews agrees to get interviewed, and a few questions he refuses to answer. He's not wrong to not answer them (this isn't a court of law). But is his answer perceived as implicit guilt? Ultimately the NFL can decide to do what it wants with his answers.
There is so much gray area involved as to what the NFL's limits (or lack thereof) for investigative purposes are. Could the league potentially threaten to suspend a player if he didn't hand over his cell phone for an investigation?
These guys agreeing to interviews would create a precedent where anytime a media organization accuses a player of something, the player is going to be subject to an interview. This plays into then following the money...media organizations have significant financial incentives to pursue accusations against NFL players.
Someone with a law background can probably explain better than I can, but this has potential to be a real mess.
This is pretty spot on, IMO (full disclosure, not a lawyer, but legalese enthusiast), but the precedent has already been set. The problem with what the NFL is doing is that they're circumventing the PED policy. It's their "right" because of the precedent that was set by the Brady case. It STANDS as their right if the NFLPA does not appeal it to the Supreme Court (in all likelihood, if they couldn't get RGB in the 2nd Circuit Appeals Court, they're not going to win against 8/9ths of the SC. This gives them authority to suspend for obstruction rather than specific violations of the PED policy. Meanwhile, the NFLPA is pointing to the PED policy that states "credible evidence", but the NFL is ignoring that document altogether.
This is important for the next CBA, because post-Brady, the NFL has powers that were not bargained for courtesy of the courts. The NFL can and will demand severe concessions if the NFLPA wants to dent into that, and the NFLPA won't be willing to give in because it doesn't believe the NFL, in fact, has those rights. We could very well be looking at a lengthy lockout when the time comes - I think it's that big an issue.
Now, in the short term, where that leaves the NFLPA is anyone's guess, but they SHOULD choose whatever drags this out the longest. I imagine if they don't interview, the NFL will point to the Brady decision to suspend them on the grounds of obstructing the investigation. If they go through, they can be suspended for equally dubious reasons. The difference, I think, is that the NFL has already debunked part of its own evidence, deeming the evidence 'not credible' in the case of Manning. If a witness is discredited (I do agree with the NFL that him retracting his comments isn't evidence of falsities per se), they're generally unreliable across the board. Courts - judges and juries alike - don't like 'partially reliable' witnesses. But opening it up to the courts is going to open it up to discovery, so NFLPA better do its own internal investigation with the players to make sure they're not going to end up with egg on their faces.
So if I were the NFLPA (I'm not) and confident that I could utterly discredit the witness who has already helped in doing so, I go through with the investigation, offer enough commentary to say you're not obstructing* (more on this next paragraph) to then put the onus of punishment under the PED policy that is much more prescriptive. Then, take the punishment that we can assume is a self-fulfilling argument for the NFL and appeal the suspension was based on inadequate evidence to merit suspension via the PED policy. Simultaneously, appeal to the SC on the Brady case with the hopes of overturning it so that you can argue the investigation was not based on sufficient evidence to begin with.
*The problem with all of this is that the NFL will claim any evidence withheld is considered obstruction, which is precisely the issue with Brady. Evidence was circumstantial at best, but the NFL used the refusal to provide his phone as evidence of obstruction. So is the NFL going to demand bank statements?
At the end of the day, best guess is they all get suspended, but appeal and play out the year. At the end of the year, the only real casualty will be Matthews, who could be the lone player that has not retired.
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I agree with this analysis:
The latest imposition of NFL power over its players goes something like this:
If someone, anyone, makes a public allegation, substantiated or otherwise, recanted or supported, of possible improper conduct, the player must submit to an investigation on the league's terms or face suspension.
It would be easy to say that a rule-abiding player has nothing to worry about, but I'm going to guess that New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady and retired defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove, among others, might not agree.
Based on recent history, at least, these players are more likely to be disciplined for their conduct during the investigation than for any of the allegations that spurred the investigation in the first place.
Brady will serve a four-game suspension to start this season because the NFL determined he was "more likely than not" involved in a scheme to deflate footballs in the 2014 AFC Championship Game. The league's final report, of course, carried not a shred of direct and verified evidence that Brady was involved -- or even that the balls themselves were artificially deflated. It focused heavily on Brady's refusal to provide his mobile phone, even though he said he provided all the information the league requested from it.
Hargrove, meanwhile, essentially lost his career in 2012 when the NFL pinned much of its Bountygate investigation on him telling his New Orleans Saints teammates to "pay me my money" after a hit on then-Minnesota Vikings quarterback Brett Favre. Hargrove adamantly denied saying it, and the NFL concluded he was not being truthful in his deposition. Later, an NFL Films video confirmed Hargrove's account. The NFL quietly acknowledged it.
The NFL already has a PEDs policy, to which all four players have been subject. The policy's testing procedure should be the source of any allegation. Unless one or more of them have tested positive, they are innocent under the terms of the agreed NFL-NFLPA policy. The policy does allow for discipline if violations are found through "sufficient credible documented evidence," but unless the NFL has uncovered something more than Al-Jazeera did from a now-discredited source, it's difficult to imagine what that might be.
In this case, the NFL is asking the players to step outside the policy and answer to the allegation anyway. Ask Brady and Hargrove, both of whom denied their respective accusations from the start, how that worked out for them.
In truth, this really isn't about PEDs. Again, the NFL has a policy for that. This is another maneuver in the now-ubiquitous power struggle between the league and its players. The NFL is emboldened by its legal victory over Brady and is using the same broad authority -- as written in Article 46 of the collective bargaining agreement -- to compel participation in an otherwise out-of-policy investigation.
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When these players go to these interviews, will the Players Association refuse to send a rep with them since the PA doesn't want them doing these interviews at all?
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I agree with this analysis:
The latest imposition of NFL power over its players goes something like this:
If someone, anyone, makes a public allegation, substantiated or otherwise, recanted or supported, of possible improper conduct, the player must submit to an investigation on the league's terms or face suspension.
It would be easy to say that a rule-abiding player has nothing to worry about, but I'm going to guess that New England Patriots quarterback Tom Brady and retired defensive lineman Anthony Hargrove, among others, might not agree.
Based on recent history, at least, these players are more likely to be disciplined for their conduct during the investigation than for any of the allegations that spurred the investigation in the first place.
Brady will serve a four-game suspension to start this season because the NFL determined he was "more likely than not" involved in a scheme to deflate footballs in the 2014 AFC Championship Game. The league's final report, of course, carried not a shred of direct and verified evidence that Brady was involved -- or even that the balls themselves were artificially deflated. It focused heavily on Brady's refusal to provide his mobile phone, even though he said he provided all the information the league requested from it.
Hargrove, meanwhile, essentially lost his career in 2012 when the NFL pinned much of its Bountygate investigation on him telling his New Orleans Saints teammates to "pay me my money" after a hit on then-Minnesota Vikings quarterback Brett Favre. Hargrove adamantly denied saying it, and the NFL concluded he was not being truthful in his deposition. Later, an NFL Films video confirmed Hargrove's account. The NFL quietly acknowledged it.
The NFL already has a PEDs policy, to which all four players have been subject. The policy's testing procedure should be the source of any allegation. Unless one or more of them have tested positive, they are innocent under the terms of the agreed NFL-NFLPA policy. The policy does allow for discipline if violations are found through "sufficient credible documented evidence," but unless the NFL has uncovered something more than Al-Jazeera did from a now-discredited source, it's difficult to imagine what that might be.
In this case, the NFL is asking the players to step outside the policy and answer to the allegation anyway. Ask Brady and Hargrove, both of whom denied their respective accusations from the start, how that worked out for them.
In truth, this really isn't about PEDs. Again, the NFL has a policy for that. This is another maneuver in the now-ubiquitous power struggle between the league and its players. The NFL is emboldened by its legal victory over Brady and is using the same broad authority -- as written in Article 46 of the collective bargaining agreement -- to compel participation in an otherwise out-of-policy investigation.
I have been uneasy for some time about players facing "double jeopardy" for an offense - especially when the judge, jury and executioner are all the same person.
A guy commits a crime and he's found guilty ... that's why we have a legal system.
On the other hand, I know an employer has the right to discipline - or fire - an employee for a variety of reasons, and the NFL also has serious public relations issues.
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While a different level of import, this is no different then someone making a vague accusation of wrong doing and the government using it as a pretext to search your home and find evidence of crimes that had nothing to do with the accusation. Even worse with Brady they said they found no evidence he broke rules after he cooperated but as a result of his cooperation he didn't provide any evidence he DIDN'T break the rules.
So if these players talk to the NFL, the NFL can suspend them for things they say that the NFL believes to be inaccurate. The NFL can also suspend the players because the players don't provide evidence that they didn't do the things they're accused of. And the NFL can suspend them if they don't talk.
I guess the NFL really believes all press is good press.
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While a different level of import, this is no different then someone making a vague accusation of wrong doing and the government using it as a pretext to search your home and find evidence of crimes that had nothing to do with the accusation. Even worse with Brady they said they found no evidence he broke rules after he cooperated but as a result of his cooperation he didn't provide any evidence he DIDN'T break the rules.
So if these players talk to the NFL, the NFL can suspend them for things they say that the NFL believes to be inaccurate. The NFL can also suspend the players because the players don't provide evidence that they didn't do the things they're accused of. And the NFL can suspend them if they don't talk.
I guess the NFL really believes all press is good press.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l41lKMoh12lt3orv2/giphy.gif)
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While a different level of import, this is no different then someone making a vague accusation of wrong doing and the government using it as a pretext to search your home and find evidence of crimes that had nothing to do with the accusation. Even worse with Brady they said they found no evidence he broke rules after he cooperated but as a result of his cooperation he didn't provide any evidence he DIDN'T break the rules.
So if these players talk to the NFL, the NFL can suspend them for things they say that the NFL believes to be inaccurate. The NFL can also suspend the players because the players don't provide evidence that they didn't do the things they're accused of. And the NFL can suspend them if they don't talk.
I guess the NFL really believes all press is good press.
I actually think they don't really care because they know everyone will watch on Sundays anyway.
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I actually think they don't really care because they know everyone will watch on Sundays anyway.
This is fair, but it does lead to the question....why the hell go after these players?
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This is fair, but it does lead to the question....why the hell go after these players?
Strictly PR.
This is a league that hands out narcotic opiates like candy, but suspends players for using weed.
This is a very violent sport and by mid-season, almost every player in the league is nursing some sort of injury. If weed helps with the pain, it is better than risking long-term addiction to opiates. Players should be able to use any legal substance under the sun.
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Here's an example: Let's say Matthews agrees to get interviewed, and a few questions he refuses to answer. He's not wrong to not answer them (this isn't a court of law). But is his answer perceived as implicit guilt? Ultimately the NFL can decide to do what it wants with his answers.
You nailed it, Dish.
Guilt or innocence is irrelevant to the NFL.
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I can't believe the argument is about who's worse Goodall/NFL or NFLPA. One is an egomaniacal two faced profit whore and the other is a hypocritical enabler of societal misfits and behavior that actually puts its own constituents at risk. Neither side is right and neither side is being 'fair'.
It's like defending Darth Vader in his actions in his interactions with the Emperor, or defending Mussolini's actions in his interactions with Hitler.
Is the NFL being fair or establishing a disciplined approach? Nope - they/he has a pretty solid track record of being above the law or needing to follow a process.
Are the players involved doping? Yep - NFL players have a pretty solid track record of use and denial.
AND don't we know how this will end? Goodall will push the indefinite suspension threat to show he's "tough on PED's" and the NFLPA is going to seek arbitration/legal ruling. We'll have some sort of non decision during next offseason and the same discussion will pop up for the next domestic violence/doping/firearms/whatever bizarre thing Bilichick is doing situation.
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I do think that if the NFL flexes its muscles enough on this, it could incite a player revolt.
The other unexpected result of this commisioner sanctioned strong arming is that one of the main accusation against Matthews is Torodal acquisition. If that thread gets pulled they could accidentally expose a lot of teams/owners who have been pushing pain killers for decades, would be a very very very black eye for the NFL if it truly surfaced.
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I do think that if the NFL flexes its muscles enough on this, it could incite a player revolt.
90% of the players "revolt" will last until the next paycheck is supposed to arrive. That is why the lockout was resolved so quickly a few years ago. The players need their paychecks. The owners don't.
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And Matthews, Peppers, et al. have now agreed to meet with the NFL.
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Cook is a lot more athletic than I thought he was. I thought he was more in the mold of a Bubba Frank's who is a big target with good hands but not someone who's overly versatile. You can move Cook around and he's really athletic. He's going to be huge for the Packers.
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It takes a lot to shock me these days, but I will be utterly shocked if Hoyer is a Bear come September.
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The Detroit Lions season will come down to two things that are intertwined. Offensive line play and keeping Stafford healthy. Everything else looks decent.
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For all you fans of other NFC North teams.
This just in. The Packers are really, really good. Now I understand that January is a very long way off and I acknowledge that top end talent (and health) is usually the key to deep playoff runs but this is a game of attrition and Green Bay has more depth than I can ever remember at essentially every position except QB. And if Hundley's ankle remains a problem, Flynn is one phone call away. In fact letting Williams go and paying Flynn a $50k signing bonus this week might not be a bad move.
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For all you fans of other NFC North teams.
This just in. The Packers are really, really good. Now I understand that January is a very long way off and I acknowledge that top end talent (and health) is usually the key to deep playoff runs but this is a game of attrition and Green Bay has more depth than I can ever remember at essentially every position except QB. And if Hundley's ankle remains a problem, Flynn is one phone call away. In fact letting Williams go and paying Flynn a $50k signing bonus this week might not be a bad move.
I agree that the Packers are going to be good. but please read the bolded sentence to anyone NOT a GB fan and tell me they don't laugh a little.
Very few teams have good backup plans so i'm not going to say Vikes is any better but i wouldn't try to put a positive spin on Flynn (unless you are at Benny's today drinking bloodies, playing volleyball and pining about the old days)
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I agree that the Packers are going to be good. but please read the bolded sentence to anyone NOT a GB fan and tell me they don't laugh a little.
Very few teams have good backup plans so i'm not going to say Vikes is any better but i wouldn't try to put a positive spin on Flynn (unless you are at Benny's today drinking bloodies, playing volleyball and pining about the old days)
I totally agree with you. Losing one's starting QB essentially dooms the season for most teams, including GB. What I'm suggesting is that IF Hundley is unable to dress because of the ankle, then Flynn gives you a better chance to survive a week or two than a young Callahan. So I'm saying that I might consider cutting Williams right now and inking Flynn IF the Packers are concerned that Hundley won't be ready. If they're sure Hundley will be okay, then never mind.
I remember a couple years ago when ARodg went down and we were signing Tolzien off the street. Think of this like the 'James Jones Plan B' plan.
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The NFL punts on domestic abuse again.
Josh Brown has abused his wife more than 20 times in the last 7 years. He gets a 1 game suspension. That means he gets less than 3 MINUTES for each occurrence of abuse.
What a league!!
But, hey .... the money keeps rolling in, so who cares?
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He was arrested once, in May 2015, which is what earned him the suspension. His wife claims the 20 prior incidents, but he wasn't arrested for them. The May charges were eventually dropped.
It's pretty difficult for the league to suspend someone beyond that unfortunately.
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He was arrested once, in May 2015, which is what earned him the suspension. His wife claims the 20 prior incidents, but he wasn't arrested for them. The May charges were eventually dropped.
It's pretty difficult for the league to suspend someone beyond that unfortunately.
But they can threaten to suspend players who don't talk to them about a well discredited story that named other players that were already "cleared"
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But they can threaten to suspend players who don't talk to them about a well discredited story that named other players that were already "cleared"
Not sure why you think my response to one incident leads you to believe that I think the NFL is just in all incidents.
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But they can threaten to suspend players who don't talk to them about a well discredited story that named other players that were already "cleared"
Exactly. Why hasn't Gooddell called Brown in to answer for the 20 allegations?
Brady is called in and punished for not answering. Matthews and Peppers have been told they will be punished for not answering.
Yet, Brown is not even questioned about abuse report after abuse report after abuse report - many of which are documented by police.
The answer is simple and clear. It was made clear with the minimal punishment of Rice (which was only increased after a public outcry) and now Brown. The NFL policy was clear with Kevin Hardy. Beating women is strictly a PR problem to Roger - nothing more.
Beating women is a very, very minimal offense in the NFL. However, taking the wrong substance to help your body recover from the beating it takes is a major criminal offense.
No different than Cub fans embracing a woman beater. Good pitching trumps assault and battery towards a woman every day of the week.
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Not sure why you think my response to one incident leads you to believe that I think the NFL is just in all incidents.
Wasn't saying you think they are just. Was juxtaposing the NFLs apparent need to hammer on rule infractions that may or may not have actually taken place but have almost no response to someone who might be a danger to society as a whole despite being called out numerous times for not taking domestic violence seriously and swearing they will change.
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No different than Cub fans embracing a woman beater. Good pitching trumps assault and battery towards a woman every day of the week.
Mark Chmura was elected to the Packers' Hall of Fame. Production on the the field trumps off the field transgressions. It's sad but true.
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It takes a lot to shock me these days, but I will be utterly shocked if Hoyer is a Bear come September.
Yeah, he's been brutal. But who's your #2? Fales or Shaw? Or do they wait to see who gets cut?
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Yeah, he's been brutal. But who's your #2? Fales or Shaw? Or do they wait to see who gets cut?
Probably Fales, they keep protecting him with a roster spot, they must see something they like. I don't see what Hoyer gives them, I don't think there's a significant drop off from Hoyer to whoever they go with.
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Probably Fales, they keep protecting him with a roster spot, they must see something they like. I don't see what Hoyer gives them, I don't think there's a significant drop off from Hoyer to whoever they go with.
So as a Packer fan you are saying regardless of Culter staying healthy I should be excited for this years Chicago Bears?
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So as a Packer fan you are saying regardless of Culter staying healthy I should be excited for this years Chicago Bears?
Last time they met, the Bears won in Lambeau with Cutler outplaying Rodgers. Just sayin'.
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Last time they met, the Bears won in Lambeau with Cutler outplaying Rodgers. Just sayin'.
(http://yarr.me/c/240/29/be-one-with-the-nut.jpg)
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(http://yarr.me/c/240/29/be-one-with-the-nut.jpg)
That's an awesome picture! It doesn't change my point but, still, well played.
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Probably Fales, they keep protecting him with a roster spot, they must see something they like. I don't see what Hoyer gives them, I don't think there's a significant drop off from Hoyer to whoever they go with.
They do seem to like Fales, though it was odd not to see him in the game the other night. Shaw played for Loggains in Cleveland so it wouldn't be surprising for the Bears to keep both of them on the regular season roster for a while.
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So as a Packer fan you are saying regardless of Culter staying healthy I should be excited for this years Chicago Bears?
Bears will beat some teams they probably shouldn't beat, and probably lose to some teams they shouldn't this coming year. My expectations are that of mediocrity.
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Bears will beat some teams they probably shouldn't beat, and probably lose to some teams they shouldn't this coming year. My expectations are that of mediocrity.
Yup, probably a 7-9 team. Cutler had looked pretty good though. Seems like he's a fan of the Fox regime.
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The lovable Bears. 2 championships in my lifetime. And I'm old.
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The lovable Bears. 2 championships in my lifetime. And I'm old.
And then there are the Vikings, whose hall of fame is filled with a few participation ribbons.
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Fox saw pretty good leaps in wins during the second year in his rebuilds with Carolina and Denver. I think the Bears will be better than most think and will be improved running the ball. Looking to get Jeremy Langford in 3-4 round in my ff draft.
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I agree that Fox is a good coach.
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The lovable Bears. 2 championships in my lifetime. And I'm old.
The Packers have only won 2 championships in the last 49 seasons. Despite the way their fans act, they haven't exactly been hoarding rings.
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The Packers have only won 2 championships in the last 49 seasons. Despite the way their fans act, they haven't exactly been hoarding rings.
Awwww.
Anyway when I saw glow's post, I was going to say the Packers have only won two championships in my lifetime. They have just both been in the past 20 years.
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The Packers have only won 2 championships in the last 49 seasons. Despite the way their fans act, they haven't exactly been hoarding rings.
Indeed, the Packers were gawd awful for two decades in the 70s and 80s. But since 1993 the Packers have gone 235-132 in the regular season, made the playoffs 17 out of 23 seasons, 4 NFC championship games, 3 Superbowls, and won 2. Bottom line, winning SuperBowls is really really really hard, which I guess means we should really respect New England more since they've won 4 in the last 15 years.
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The Packers have only won 2 championships in the last 49 seasons. Despite the way their fans act, they haven't exactly been hoarding rings.
Totally true. Hopefully #3 this year. Real chance. Da Bears, not so much.
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The Packers have only won 2 championships in the last 49 seasons. Despite the way their fans act, they haven't exactly been hoarding rings.
Sure, the Packers only have 2 in the last 49 years. In the same time frame, the Bears have 1.
Or you could go back to '63 to get the Bears to 2...but then the Packers' number would jump to 5.
That's the fun part of this game - no matter how far back you want to go, the Packers come out on top.
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Sure, the Packers only have 2 in the last 49 years. In the same time frame, the Bears have 1.
Or you could go back to '63 to get the Bears to 2...but then the Packers' number would jump to 5.
That's the fun part of this game - no matter how far back you want to go, the Vikings never come out on top.
FTFY
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FTFY
That works too!
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Sure, the Packers only have 2 in the last 49 years. In the same time frame, the Bears have 1.
Or you could go back to '63 to get the Bears to 2...but then the Packers' number would jump to 5.
That's the fun part of this game - no matter how far back you want to go, the Packers come out on top.
However, if you do keep going back, there is no person who has had a greater impact in the history of the Packers than...George Halas.
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Wit Kyle Long potentially out for a period of time, will Cutler survive for the first quarter of the first game?
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Championships!?! The Lions have one playoff WIN in my lifetime. Embrace your championships.
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Championships!?! The Lions have one playoff WIN in my lifetime. Embrace your championships.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/l41lW3H7egu92TqfK/giphy.gif)
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Championships!?! The Lions have one playoff WIN in my lifetime. Embrace your championships.
Who did they beat and when? Oh, and sorry about that Favre/Sharpe thing or that 'held Barry to negative yards' thing.
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Who did they beat and when? Oh, and sorry about that Favre/Sharpe thing or that 'held Barry to negative yards' thing.
Beat the Cowboys 38-6 in '91, them lost 41-10 to the Redskins. Last playoff win before that was in '57.
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Championships!?! The Lions have one playoff WIN in my lifetime. Embrace your championships.
My late father was a die hard Lions fan. I remember as a kid them losing a playoff game to the Cowboys 5-0. Just brutal.
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I'd say that applies to the entire 49ers organization.
For 3 seasons they might have been the best team in football and failed to get a ring. Now they're simply awful. Shows how truly difficult it is to stay on top and even be in a position to cap it off with a trophy.
And it shows that you need to have stable ownership and a good front office. All of the 49ers wounds were self inflicted.
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I'm mostly pissed that it's filling up my Facebook feed with all sorts of hot takes and clever memes.
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And it shows that you need to have stable ownership and a good front office. All of the 49ers wounds were self inflicted.
I chuckle at all these 'know nothings' that like to criticize Ted Thompson. Every couple years he brings in an impact free agent, including seemingly Cook this year, without breaking the bank. And ever year he finds undrafted kids that can absolutely contribute in this league at some point. This years group potentially includes: Callahan, Brice, Allison, Burks, Price, Gilbert, Evans, Daniels and Hawkins. All of those guys can play a little football. A couple might make the opening day roster. He'll again open with one of the 4-5 youngest teams in the league. And baring a major injury (true for everyone, every year) the Packers are again a threat for a deep January run. Of course that guarantees nothing. But you can't make the same statement about more than a handful of teams.
At the same time, the 49ers waste their time with Christian Ponder.
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Hey guys...let's go Bears!
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Hey guys...let's go Bears!
I watched 'em today. Yikes.
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I watched 'em today. Yikes.
I was doing a Boers & Bernstein drop to try to lighten the mood here.
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Do tha Packers only keep 2 QBs if they're confident Hundley's ankle is good? Or does Callahan get a spot?
WR worked itself out with Janis getting hurt. Not sure how long you can keep a guy who can't learn the playbook. Davante' gotta catch more than 50% of passes that hit him in the hands or Abbi should get most of his snaps.
Cook is a huge addition. And I think losing Montgomery to injury was huge last year.
The front 7 up the middle is the only concern.
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I know you guys are excited about Cook, but I don't see it at all, I think he's a bad fit in Green Bay. I just foresee a Rodgers/Cook sideline confrontation or two coming this year.
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I know you guys are excited about Cook, but I don't see it at all, I think he's a bad fit in Green Bay. I just foresee a Rodgers/Cook sideline confrontation or two coming this year.
I wasn't excited about the signing when it happened, but he's far more athletic and dynamic than I thought he was. I now think this was a great signing.
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I wasn't excited about the signing when it happened, but he's far more athletic and dynamic than I thought he was. I now think this was a great signing.
The $ on a one year flyer isn't bad, but Cook's led all TE's in drops two of the last three years, and he's a terrible blocker. He'll have a game or two to make you believe, but he's 29 and on his third team for a reason. Pack has nothing to lose on him, I just think his drops and known attitude problems won't mix well long term this year with Rodgers.
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The $ on a one year flyer isn't bad, but Cook's led all TE's in drops two of the last three years, and he's a terrible blocker. He'll have a game or two to make you believe, but he's 29 and on his third team for a reason. Pack has nothing to lose on him, I just think his drops and known attitude problems won't mix well long term this year with Rodgers.
You sure you aren't describing Jermichael Finley's first couple of seasons in Green Bay?
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Do tha Packers only keep 2 QBs if they're confident Hundley's ankle is good? Or does Callahan get a spot?
WR worked itself out with Janis getting hurt. Not sure how long you can keep a guy who can't learn the playbook. Davante' gotta catch more than 50% of passes that hit him in the hands or Abbi should get most of his snaps.
Cook is a huge addition. And I think losing Montgomery to injury was huge last year.
The front 7 up the middle is the only concern.
They are certainly only keeping 2. Callahan has likely earned the right to a practice squad slot. There's no way that one of these outstanding rookie DBs is losing his job to Callahan. To that end, I think it likely that they go with 3 TEs and maybe only 3 running backs.
I think upwards of 3 defensive rookie FAs make the team. They've found some great talent there.
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Can we just appreciate for one second that Trevor Siemian is going to be a starting NFL quarterback? Love my Northwestern football but I never would have guessed in a million years that Siemian would have ever been an NFL starter.
Almost picked him in the last round of our fantasy football draft as my backup QB but though better of it.
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Can we just appreciate for one second that Trevor Siemian is going to be a starting NFL quarterback? Love my Northwestern football but I never would have guessed in a million years that Siemian would have ever been an NFL starter.
Almost picked him in the last round of our fantasy football draft as my backup QB but though better of it.
I will be appreciating Sept. 8, when Luke Kuechly will be intercepting Siemian, Kuwann Short will be sacking him and the Panthers will be helping him to a most unglorious start to his NFL career.
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Can we just appreciate for one second that Trevor Siemian is going to be a starting NFL quarterback? Love my Northwestern football but I never would have guessed in a million years that Siemian would have ever been an NFL starter.
Almost picked him in the last round of our fantasy football draft as my backup QB but though better of it.
Just nuts. I was shocked that even made the Broncos last year. His senior season at NU you could make a strong case he was like the 11th or 12th best qb in the Big Ten.
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Can we just appreciate for one second that Trevor Siemian is going to be a starting NFL quarterback? Love my Northwestern football but I never would have guessed in a million years that Siemian would have ever been an NFL starter.
Almost picked him in the last round of our fantasy football draft as my backup QB but though better of it.
Only saw highlights so obviously they're going to look good but it looks like he's got an arm on him. Not a bad spot to be getting your first starting action.
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Just nuts. I was shocked that even made the Broncos last year. His senior season at NU you could make a strong case he was like the 11th or 12th best qb in the Big Ten.
He tore his ACL his senior year. I will always appreciate him for the incredible game he had against Notre Dame. Also his offensive line and wide receivers were god awful along with the offensive coordinator (who every NU fan wants fired despite going 10-2 last year)
Wade is right, he has an absolute cannon but just wasn't utilized correctly during his senior season after Colter graduated.
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He tore his ACL his senior year. I will always appreciate him for the incredible game he had against Notre Dame. Also his offensive line and wide receivers were god awful along with the offensive coordinator (who every NU fan wants fired despite going 10-2 last year)
Wade is right, he has an absolute cannon but just wasn't utilized correctly during his senior season after Colter graduated.
116 career collegiate passer rating is pretty damn good.
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I'd simply like to talk football.
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I'd simply like to talk football.
What's stopping you?
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What's stopping you?
Hmm, I wonder.
(replied to 2 pages later after no football has been discussed.)
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Hmm, I wonder.
(replied to 2 pages later after no football has been discussed.)
Some people have discussed only football (Northwestern quarterback now starting for the Denver Broncos, Packers potential cuts). Some have discussed only a disrespectful clown who plays football and sexually assaults women. Others have discussed both.
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Joey Bosa finally signed today
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Joey Bosa finally signed today
Didn't know ya could sign a LOI dis early. Who else was recruitin' 'im, hey?
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Preseason games as a whole are meaningless, but there is context that can surface if one pays close enough attention.
If you're a Bears fan, based on what I've seen, and more importantly what I've heard an interpreted, I think this is a really critical season, in that it's about who you are and where you're going. To be clear, this isn't a playoff roster, they are not going to the postseason. There's a simmering of 3-13 lurking, and if you listen closely, I think certain guys on the team know it, mainly Cutler. I don't think he thinks his protection is any good, I think he thinks Kevin White sucks, and if guys he likes (Miller, Royal, Jeffrey) are beat up and not playing, the wheels are going to come off. Their defense is a bunch of good (not great) players up front, with a bad secondary.
Importantly, what if Kevin White sucks? What if Leonard Floyd sucks? I didn't like the Fox hire originally because I didn't see him as a HC willing to grow with a rebuilding team, and if those guys can't play, where are they a year from now? Cutler's deal essentially is a year to year deal after 2016, is he around? Is Fox around? Does Ryan Pace survive if White and Floyd suck?
Sorry, back to your regularly scheduled programming...
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I thought right when they drafted White that it was a mistake, absolutely hated the pick and wish they went with a safety. Obviously its a little premature to make such a rash decision since he hasn't played a meaningful down in the NFL yet but its not exactly looking good either.
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I thought I had heard Kevin White was ready for a breakout season. Not sure where I saw that but we've also heard heading into a number of seasons that Jay Cutler was ready to be a league MVP and that Davante Adams was a #1 WR in the making so...
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Preseason games as a whole are meaningless, but there is context that can surface if one pays close enough attention.
If you're a Bears fan, based on what I've seen, and more importantly what I've heard an interpreted, I think this is a really critical season, in that it's about who you are and where you're going. To be clear, this isn't a playoff roster, they are not going to the postseason. There's a simmering of 3-13 lurking, and if you listen closely, I think certain guys on the team know it, mainly Cutler. I don't think he thinks his protection is any good, I think he thinks Kevin White sucks, and if guys he likes (Miller, Royal, Jeffrey) are beat up and not playing, the wheels are going to come off. Their defense is a bunch of good (not great) players up front, with a bad secondary.
Importantly, what if Kevin White sucks? What if Leonard Floyd sucks? I didn't like the Fox hire originally because I didn't see him as a HC willing to grow with a rebuilding team, and if those guys can't play, where are they a year from now? Cutler's deal essentially is a year to year deal after 2016, is he around? Is Fox around? Does Ryan Pace survive if White and Floyd suck?
Sorry, back to your regularly scheduled programming...
I always believed, in both of those drafts, they should have tried to trade down and stockpile picks. Now, maybe they did attempt that, but neither Floyd or White seemed like good decisions at the time.
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Preseason games as a whole are meaningless, but there is context that can surface if one pays close enough attention.
If you're a Bears fan, based on what I've seen, and more importantly what I've heard an interpreted, I think this is a really critical season, in that it's about who you are and where you're going. To be clear, this isn't a playoff roster, they are not going to the postseason. There's a simmering of 3-13 lurking, and if you listen closely, I think certain guys on the team know it, mainly Cutler. I don't think he thinks his protection is any good, I think he thinks Kevin White sucks, and if guys he likes (Miller, Royal, Jeffrey) are beat up and not playing, the wheels are going to come off. Their defense is a bunch of good (not great) players up front, with a bad secondary.
Importantly, what if Kevin White sucks? What if Leonard Floyd sucks? I didn't like the Fox hire originally because I didn't see him as a HC willing to grow with a rebuilding team, and if those guys can't play, where are they a year from now? Cutler's deal essentially is a year to year deal after 2016, is he around? Is Fox around? Does Ryan Pace survive if White and Floyd suck?
Sorry, back to your regularly scheduled programming...
Jesus man....season is already over for you. Not a good feeling.
I agree there are question marks, most importantly how good of a coach Dowell Loggains is, but you didn't lose that much and got younger at rb and te. You play the Eagles, Cowboys, Titans, and 49ers. There's four wins right there.
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Jesus man....season is already over for you. Not a good feeling.
I agree there are question marks, most importantly how good of a coach Dowell Loggains is, but you didn't lose that much and got younger at rb and te. You play the Eagles, Cowboys, Titans, and 49ers. There's four wins right there.
I'm pretty level headed, all I said was this is a critical season, said this isn't a playoff caliber roster, and if they regress from 6 wins to 3 or 4, some serious questions need to be asked about the state of things.
Nothing is a given, both for and against, and also the 2015 version of the Bears lost to the Niners.
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Also, I'm not trying to be a jerk, but Zach Miller is 31, Martellus Bennett is 29.
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Zach Miller is 31, wow. My mistake, less miles on him at least is a positive for you guys.
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I always believed, in both of those drafts, they should have tried to trade down and stockpile picks.
You couldn't be more right.
Drafting is a very inexact science. Studies have shown that teams with more picks have better drafts. Belichick and Thompson are well aware of it.
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Preseason games as a whole are meaningless, but there is context that can surface if one pays close enough attention.
If you're a Bears fan, based on what I've seen, and more importantly what I've heard an interpreted, I think this is a really critical season, in that it's about who you are and where you're going. To be clear, this isn't a playoff roster, they are not going to the postseason. There's a simmering of 3-13 lurking, and if you listen closely, I think certain guys on the team know it, mainly Cutler. I don't think he thinks his protection is any good, I think he thinks Kevin White sucks, and if guys he likes (Miller, Royal, Jeffrey) are beat up and not playing, the wheels are going to come off. Their defense is a bunch of good (not great) players up front, with a bad secondary.
Importantly, what if Kevin White sucks? What if Leonard Floyd sucks? I didn't like the Fox hire originally because I didn't see him as a HC willing to grow with a rebuilding team, and if those guys can't play, where are they a year from now? Cutler's deal essentially is a year to year deal after 2016, is he around? Is Fox around? Does Ryan Pace survive if White and Floyd suck?
Sorry, back to your regularly scheduled programming...
Great post, interesting questions. Right now, all signs are pointing to 4-12.
If there is regression and White & Floyd show little, the heat will be on Pace. I can't see the Bears firing him, but his best move would be to cut Cutler and draft a QB high. For better or worse, tied his future to that QB pick. If anything, it gives Pace a bit more time. The question is would Fox be up for that? Or, if Pace went that route, would he keep Fox? Going to be interesting.
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Great post, interesting questions. Right now, all signs are pointing to 4-12.
If there is regression and White & Floyd show little, the heat will be on Pace. I can't see the Bears firing him, but his best move would be to cut Cutler and draft a QB high. For better or worse, tied his future to that QB pick. If anything, it gives Pace a bit more time. The question is would Fox be up for that? Or, if Pace went that route, would he keep Fox? Going to be interesting.
You have a lot bigger problems than cutler. A porous defense and offensive line to start. Even if you do get a High rated QB, he better be able to move his feet cause he won't be getting any time. Wouldn't put him in a position to succeed.
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That's tough for the Vikes, hate to see that.
It'll never ever happen, probably dumb to even mention it, but a Cutler trade to the Vikes would make so much sense if they weren't in the same division, and if the Bears had a capable back up.
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That's tough for the Vikes, hate to see that.
It'll never ever happen, probably dumb to even mention it, but a Cutler trade to the Vikes would make so much sense if they weren't in the same division, and if the Bears had a capable back up.
Looks like Denver trading partners just went up and the Sanchez market just got real hot
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Colin 2 Consensus, heyna??
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Looks like Denver trading partners just went up and the Sanchez market just got real hot
I don't think anyone wants Sanchez at the current price. Sanchez at $5 mil is meh, I'd argue you can roll the dice on Shaun Hill at that price. If the Broncos release him, I think the market would be more willing to engage. I don't think Sanchez fits though.
Vikes are in a real tough spot obviously, but they're contenders in the NFC, new stadium opening, benefit of a young offense having a full offseason with their coaching staff. Kaepernick probably makes the most sense here.
Hope Teddy is ok, you don't often hear of ambulances sprinting to a facility for a torn ligament.
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Sorry Vikings fans. Season?
https://twitter.com/murphPPress/status/770699256504213505
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Is Colin's bigger beef with America and the West in general, driven mostly by his new religion?
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(http://www.vikingsmania.com/MinnesotaVikingsPhotoGallery/BrettFavre/BrettFavre6.jpg)
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the packers 3rd string QB, callahan has shown a lot of "moxey" Hein"a? i sure do hope they can keep him real close. can some team claim him off of the practice squad? can the pack protect him short of putting him on their regular roster? you have to give a lot of credit to the packers scouts for finding him
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So much easier for Vikings fans to know the result of the season ahead of time. Frees up a lot of hours on Sundays.
(Admittedly, the last 55 seasons were an indicator..)
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That's tough for the Vikes, hate to see that.
It'll never ever happen, probably dumb to even mention it, but a Cutler trade to the Vikes would make so much sense if they weren't in the same division, and if the Bears had a capable back up.
That's the worst idea i've ever heard, no way the Vikes do this!
*thinks about the Shaun Hill era in Minnesota*
Crap, it actually makes sense
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Peyton
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There are a lot of quarterbacks out there that can do what Teddy does. Just like Fox did with Cutler last year, the Vikings have always kept the ball out of Teddy's hands. Take the snap and hand it to the child beater behind you and you're just fine.
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Looks like Denver trading partners just went up and the Sanchez market just got real hot
I'd take Ponder back before Sanchez. Or maybe Tebow.
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Didn't read how it happened, but how does a QB get injured like that in practice?
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Picking AP in the first round looks like it's gonna pay off for me. Though I feel bad for Teddy, like him as a player. Almost picked him as a backup QB with my last pick, but opted for Matty Ice instead.
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That's the worst idea i've ever heard, no way the Vikes do this!
*thinks about the Shaun Hill era in Minnesota*
Crap, it actually makes sense
Main reason it made sense to me is Cutler's essentially on a one year deal, so a team could basically use him for a year and then cut him at minimal cost...but it'll never happen anyway.
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Is Colin's bigger beef with America and the West in general, driven mostly by his new religion?
That's twice now with Muslim comments.
Proof?
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Didn't read how it happened, but how does a QB get injured like that in practice?
Sounds like a non-contact injury.
Sometimes the knee just blows. Must be because of those chicken legs of his.
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That's twice now with Muslim comments.
Proof?
It's all over the interents, if you Google it, so obviously it's gotta be true. (But really, it is. Something about it being for his girlfriend)
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Look, I despise the Vikings as much as any Packer fan but I absolutely hate it when someone's starting QB (or anyone for that matter) goes down. There's simply no recovery possible if this is a season ending thing. One can survive 5-6 weeks (maybe) missing their QB but not 16. To make the playoffs one needs to win 10 games minimum. Baring some kind of miracle (assuming the worst for Teddy), the Vikings ain't winning 10 games given today's probable developments. And it can happen to any of our favorite teams on any given day. That simply sucks.
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Look, I despise the Vikings as much as any Packer fan but I absolutely hate it when someone's starting QB (or anyone for that matter) goes down. There's simply no recovery possible if this is a season ending thing. One can survive 5-6 weeks (maybe) missing their QB but not 16. To make the playoffs one needs to win 10 games minimum. Baring some kind of miracle (assuming the worst for Teddy), the Vikings ain't winning 10 games given today's probable developments. And it can happen to any of our favorite teams on any given day. That simply sucks.
In 1987, Jay Schroeder went down in Washington's season opener. Doug Williams came in and led the team to the Super Bowl.
In 1999, Trent Green tore his ACL in the preseason. Backup Kurt Warner came in and, well, you know.
In 2001, Drew Bledsoe got hurt in week two and some guy named Brady came in and, see above.
In 2008, that same Brady guy got his knee blown out in the first quarter of week one. Backup Matt Cassel came in and led the Pats to the playoffs.
Is it likely Shaun Hill matches the seasons those guys above had? Not at all. But the Vikings are built on defense and running anyhow, so this isn't nearly as devastating as it would be for many other teams.
Also, fwiw, teams with 9 or fewer wins can and do make the playoff sometimes (including two of them last year). The NFC is weak, so 9 could get a team in for sure.
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In 1987, Jay Schroeder went down in Washington's season opener. Doug Williams came in and led the team to the Super Bowl.
In 1999, Trent Green tore his ACL in the preseason. Backup Kurt Warner came in and, well, you know.
In 2001, Drew Bledsoe got hurt in week two and some guy named Brady came in and, see above.
In 2008, that same Brady guy got his knee blown out in the first quarter of week one. Backup Matt Cassel came in and led the Pats to the playoffs.
Is it likely Shaun Hill matches the seasons those guys above had? Not at all. But the Vikings are built on defense and running anyhow, so this isn't nearly as devastating as it would be for many other teams.
Also, fwiw, teams with 9 or fewer wins can and do make the playoff sometimes (including two of them last year). The NFC is weak, so 9 could get a team in for sure.
Possible. HIGHLY unlikely. Make that VERY HIGHLY unlikely. And of course never mind that you covered 30 years of football and two of the replacements ended up being HOF QB's. It's going to be stack the box and shut 'em down. Sorry. It sucks. I like Teddy and think the Vikings were beginning to reach the upper level. Not this year. Let's hope for a successful recovery.
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Just looked at their depth chart, not only is Shaun Hill their backup, but their 3rd string QB? Joel Stave. Nothing against the Vikings but I would laugh so hard if they had to resort to starting Joel Stave of all players.
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https://twitter.com/SportsTalkJoe?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Torn ACL, done for year. Pretty bad for Viking fans, team and no way to introduce their beautiful stadium. Shame and best of luck to Bridgewater in his rehab.
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https://twitter.com/SportsTalkJoe?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor
Torn ACL, done for year. Pretty bad for Viking fans, team and no way to introduce their beautiful stadium. Shame and best of luck to Bridgewater in his rehab.
Fake account, I'm actually afraid its much, much worse than an ACL.
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In 1987, Jay Schroeder went down in Washington's season opener. Doug Williams came in and led the team to the Super Bowl.
In 1999, Trent Green tore his ACL in the preseason. Backup Kurt Warner came in and, well, you know.
In 2001, Drew Bledsoe got hurt in week two and some guy named Brady came in and, see above.
In 2008, that same Brady guy got his knee blown out in the first quarter of week one. Backup Matt Cassel came in and led the Pats to the playoffs.
Cassell did not lead NE to the playoffs.
Brady and Warner are HoFers. (Hill is not - they probably wouldn't let him visit if he paid.)
Williams had already led TB to the playoffs - several times, IIRC.
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Fake account, I'm actually afraid its much, much worse than an ACL.
Yeah, just saw that, sorry guys. Not a Vikes fan, but I hope its not too bad.
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You have a lot bigger problems than cutler. A porous defense and offensive line to start. Even if you do get a High rated QB, he better be able to move his feet cause he won't be getting any time. Wouldn't put him in a position to succeed.
Without a doubt. On the list of Bears issues right now, Cutler is at the bottom.
I was looking at this through the lens of what's best for Ryan Pace if things go bad this season. Typically, most GMs get at least one chance to bring in their QB. Doing so in most cases also gives the GM some time to have that player develop, which allows a GM the opportunity to add more talent and make-up for past mistakes.
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Vikings officially calling it a 'significant' knee injury. Waiting on details.
Shaun Hill is 34 years old and 16-18 lifetime. Respectfully, that simply won't work if one thinks the playoffs are remotely possible. Moreover, any quick trade for a Kaepernick or someone else necessitates a period of familiarization. Rome isn't built in a day in the NFL.
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Knowing what the Vikings do on offense, Sanchez may be the best bet. Whomever it is will be handing the ball off a lot.
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Cassell did not lead NE to the playoffs.
Ugh . You're right. They went 11-5 and somehow didn't make the playoffs.
The rest is besides the point. League history is rife with examples of starting QBs going down early and their teams faring well with a backup. In a weak NFC (and NFC North in particular) with a team built around running and defense, this isn't a death blow to the Vikings.
For the record, I'm not a Viking fan.
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If Minnesota finds a game managing QB, one who protects the ball, throws the checkdown, and hands off to AP 25 times a game, they could still make the playoffs.
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Backup QB is (to me) one of the most interesting positions in all sports. Finding a good (at minimum) starting QB is hard enough in this day and age. If you have a great one, you're allocating a large percentage of your cap spend to that guy. You can plan to a degree on life without your starter, but at what cost? Young guy learning the ropes? Old vet who's been a career back up? Mobile/athletic guy who can do some things but isn't a great passer? Guys like Brady and Kurt Warner, ultimate outliers in history as far as taking over teams and leading them to tremendous success.
I was thinking this week about what I thought of the NFC and more so the North, and I thought the Vikes are right there on the cusp, but there was some signs of schedule regression coming. I remember thinking about that Pack/Vikes game from last year in Minny, and recollecting how I didn't trust Teddy to lead the Vikes back from behind to win that game, and I was looking forward to seeing early this year if the Vikes got behind, did Teddy and the coaching staff grow in the offseason to instill confidence in one another to win that type of game?
Certainly Teddy being done for the year doesn't end their season per se, but the question of can the Vikes get to that next level (Seahawks/Cards/Pack) will have to be answered next year, and take a year off of their playoff window.
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If the Vikings want to become the class of the NFC they needed Teddy to be more than he has shown he is so far. He is young so he could definitely get there, but he also isn't a sure thing to get there. Hopefully he gets a chance to take that step in his career.
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Knowing what the Vikings do on offense, Sanchez may be the best bet. Whomever it is will be handing the ball off a lot.
Sanchez would be a good choice.
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Sanchez would be a good choice.
You may be right. Sounds awful to me, though.
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Dislocated knee. Brutal. That's Shawn Livingston esq.
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That's brutal for Teddy, at least a couple years to get back, could be his career.
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Is Colin's bigger beef with America and the West in general, driven mostly by his new religion?
I think he's tryin to impress the babe, nessa and get to 3rd base and maybe even steal home, heinie?
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That's brutal for Teddy, at least a couple years to get back, could be his career.
Yes, worse then thought. Dislocated knee, full tear of ACL, other structural damage. Very bad, even for a young guy, that will be tough recovery for anyone, never the less an NFL player.
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I wouldn't wish that on anyone, divisional rival or not. Good luck, young man.
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Dislocated knee. Brutal. That's Shawn Livingston esq.
Wow. If, true, that really could be career ending. If it's not 2017 might be 'optimistic'.
The Vikings were really on the right track. Don't tell me about any retread they can buy for a 4th round pick. By the time they successfully rehab or replace Teddy, AP skills will have diminished; he's already 31 with 10 years. He might actually be retired by then.
I actually feel bad about this. It's so hard to climb the mountain. I know how I would feel if this was Rodgers.
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Internet doctors pre-MRI have been out & about on this one. Hopefully they're wrong
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Fully torn ACL. Expected to make a full recovery.
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Wow. If, true, that really could be career ending. If it's not 2017 might be 'optimistic'.
The Vikings were really on the right track. Don't tell me about any retread they can buy for a 4th round pick. By the time they successfully rehab or replace Teddy, AP skills will have diminished; he's already 31 with 10 years. He might actually be retired by then.
I actually feel bad about this. It's so hard to climb the mountain. I know how I would feel if this was Rodgers.
This is spot on, this particular injury to this particular QB and this particular team right now puts the Vikes in a really odd spot. Clearly they are good enough to compete still, but what do they do at QB going forward? Their WR core is young and had been working with Teddy, AP will either be cut in March or have to renegotiate, defense is solid, but a half of that core is over 30. They viewed Teddy as the glue of that offense going forward, now their hand is going to be forced to use capital to get a QB next March/April.
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Holy f'in sh1t! I had no idea this thread went off the rails. Anyhow, I've lopped off a ton of posts, some probably legitimately about football. Sorry, but the extended Kaepernick conversation didn't belong...no need to start it up again, or keep going.
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Holy f'in sh1t! I had no idea this thread went off the rails. Anyhow, I've lopped off a ton of posts, some probably legitimately about football. Sorry, but the extended Kaepernick conversation didn't belong...no need to start it up again, or keep going.
Thanks Rocky.
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Holy f'in sh1t! I had no idea this thread went off the rails. Anyhow, I've lopped off a ton of posts, some probably legitimately about football. Sorry, but the extended Kaepernick conversation didn't belong...no need to start it up again, or keep going.
Captain Stillman: Well, explain yourselves.
Dewey Oxburger: We were going to the Bingo parlour...at the YMCA. Well, one thing led to another, and the instructions got all fouled up and...
Captain Stillman: Shut up.
Dewey Oxburger: Okay, Sir.
Captain Stillman: You men are a disgrace! Maybe a few days in the stockade will help you change your rotten attitudes.
Cruiser: But um, we're supposed to graduate tomorrow, sir.
Captain Stillman: That's even better. Tomorrow you're going to be on parade in front of General Barnicke. And when he sees what total unnatural carnal knowledge ups you really are, I will personally recommend that the whole platoon will repeat the entire course of basic training.
Chico would have been proud
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Captain Stillman: Well, explain yourselves.
Dewey Oxburger: We were going to the Bingo parlour...at the YMCA. Well, one thing led to another, and the instructions got all fouled up and...
Captain Stillman: Shut up.
Dewey Oxburger: Okay, Sir.
Captain Stillman: You men are a disgrace! Maybe a few days in the stockade will help you change your rotten attitudes.
Cruiser: But um, we're supposed to graduate tomorrow, sir.
Captain Stillman: That's even better. Tomorrow you're going to be on parade in front of General Barnicke. And when he sees what total unnatural carnal knowledge ups you really are, I will personally recommend that the whole platoon will repeat the entire course of basic training.
Scoop in a nutshell.
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Scoop in a nutshell.
More accurate I think
(http://i.makeagif.com/media/3-19-2015/Lz78eC.gif)
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Holy f'in sh1t! I had no idea this thread went off the rails. Anyhow, I've lopped off a ton of posts, some probably legitimately about football. Sorry, but the extended Kaepernick conversation didn't belong...no need to start it up again, or keep going.
Wait ... what did Kaepernick do? Did I miss something?
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Wait ... what did Kaepernick do? Did I miss something?
Something about socks, that's all I remember after the great post purge of 2016
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Something about socks, that's all I remember after the great post purge of 2016
Rocky brainwashed us all just like the Packers do their players, right Greg Jennings?
Go Pack Go.
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Did I hear Stave got hurt too? Cripes. Vikings have nothing left. Bet Ted thinking same thing. Callahan on 53.
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You can't quote 'Stripes' without "...lighten up, Francis."
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You can't quote 'Stripes' without "...lighten up, Francis."
Classic
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You can't quote 'Stripes' without "...lighten up, Francis."
That's a beauty, but the dialogue preceding that was precious-the name's Francis soyer, but everybody calls me psycho. Any of you guys call me Francis and I'll kill you. Any of you homos touch me and I'll kill you...then the classic-LIGHTEN UP FRANCIS
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I thought Bradford might be an option for Vikes, but wow, that is a horrendous trade. I'm shocked by the compensation.
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They did pay a lot. And either in 2017 or 2018 they'll have to pick between the two. But this move puts the Vikings back in the playoff race in their new stadium. Gotta give them credit for trying.
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The only issue I would have with that price if I were a Vikings fan is that Bradford isn't exactly the most durable QB.
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Bradford is a desperate answer to a desperate situation. In no way should he be confused with a long term solution.
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I don't understand who the Vikes were competing with in the marketplace for Bradford's services. He could have been had this offseason for a mid/late round pick.
The Vikes must know Bridgewater isn't coming back for 2017 to have made this deal.
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I don't understand who the Vikes were competing with in the marketplace for Bradford's services. He could have been had this offseason for a mid/late round pick.
The Vikes must know Bridgewater isn't coming back for 2017 to have made this deal.
Agreed. Way too heavy a price for a one year rental.
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They did pay a lot. And either in 2017 or 2018 they'll have to pick between the two. But this move puts the Vikings back in the playoff race in their new stadium. Gotta give them credit for trying.
Sam Bradford puts them back in the playoff race?
Is there a different Sam Bradford that I don't know about?
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Agreed. Way too heavy a price for a one year rental.
Bradford will be their QB next year as well. His dead money cap number isn't horrible if they cut him, but he's signed through next year as well.
I'm stunned, every metric available (WBR, DVOA) shows Bradford as not even mediocre, but awful since he entered the league. He's very injury prone, doesn't pass the eye test.
Totally get the Vikes options aren't great, I just do not see their roster better today, and their future rosters took a big hit.
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Hate what happened to Teddy. Love what the Vikes did in response. Divisional rivals shooting themselves in the foot is a wonderful thing
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Josh Sitton?!?
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Super Bowl Sam
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Josh Sitton?!?
Apparently wanted a contract extension and was upset when TT said no.
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Apparently wanted a contract extension and was upset when TT said no.
He was still under a reasonable expiring deal. I had heard Pack lowballed an extension offer his way. Doesn't make any sense to release him unless he's hurt or can't play anymore. Let him walk at the end of the year.
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He was still under a reasonable expiring deal. I had heard Pack lowballed an extension offer his way. Doesn't make any sense to release him unless he's hurt or can't play anymore. Let him walk at the end of the year.
Yeah I guess they didn't want him disgruntled. We'll see.
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Did Kaepernick get da heave ho, hey?
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Sam Bradford puts them back in the playoff race?
Is there a different Sam Bradford that I don't know about?
You thinking of the same Sam Bradford that the Vikings just traded a 1st round pick for? He's never been to the playoffs and his career w/l record is 25-37-1...umm, you were kidding, right?
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Did Kaepernick get da heave ho, hey?
Nope, but gabby's getting the start...unless they can calm down the blue. They kinda need them to break up the 2 fisted slopper rumbles, eyyyy'na?
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Josh Sitton?!?
Ted Thompson is special. Dementia may be setting in.
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I must admit. I don't understand the Sitton thing. Now if Lindsley was healthy maybe.
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Was hiking through Custer/Black Hills all day. Finally got some cell service and see the Packers CUT Josh Sitton?! Horrible.
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Whew. For the last eight hours I had just hitting refresh over and over because I was so interested to see what wades' opinion on the Sitton matter was...
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Whew. For the last eight hours I had just hitting refresh over and over because I was so interested to see what wades' opinion on the Sitton matter was...
Awesome. Glad I provided that. Rest easy.
::)
Douche.
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Awesome. Glad I provided that. Rest easy.
::)
Douche.
God you're easy.
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God you're easy.
And you're a 40 something year old online douche.
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And you're a 40 something year old online douche.
You think I'm gonna argue that?
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Yep. Its the offseason.
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Hate what happened to Teddy. Love what the Vikes did in response. Divisional rivals shooting themselves in the foot is a wonderful thing
You like the team getting better?
Same.
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Yep. Its the offseason.
Must be some carry-over love from the politics I suppose. Time for a beer summit, Eyn'a hey?
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Whew. For the last eight hours I had just hitting refresh over and over because I was so interested to see what wades' opinion on the Sitton matter was...
1 point...Sultan
Breathe Wades, breathe.
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1 point...Sultan
Breathe Wades, breathe.
Not exactly worked up over it at all. Just call a spade a spade when I see a spade.
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You like the team getting better?
Same.
Giving up a first round draft pick and a third or fourth rounder for a one year rental who is made of glass and has been marginal at best since he started in the NFL? Seems shortsighted to me.
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Sounds like the Bears will be Sitton's first visit. They definitely have a need.
http://www.csnchicago.com/chicago-bears/report-bears-get-first-visit-former-packers-guard-josh-sitton
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And you're a 40 something year old online douche.
In fairness, we're all kind of online douches.
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In fairness, we're all kind of online douches.
I am. But I don't know that I agree that everyone on here is.
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I don't understand who the Vikes were competing with in the marketplace for Bradford's services. He could have been had this offseason for a mid/late round pick.
The Vikes must know Bridgewater isn't coming back for 2017 to have made this deal.
Exactly. I would have considered just the 4th rounder as a real win for the Eagles. Now there is a very good possibility they get a top 10 overall pick as well.
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I am. But I don't know that I agree that everyone on here is.
Thank you, Wades 8-)
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Exactly. I would have considered just the 4th rounder as a real win for the Eagles. Now there is a very good possibility they get a top 10 overall pick as well.
No way they're that bad. They still play the Bears and Lions 4 times.
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No way they're that bad. They still play the Bears and Lions 4 times.
NICE !!!! Da bears missed a great opportunity to unload cutler. At least it would have kept him in the division for us to beat up on, AND the Bears would be guaranteed at least 2 wins, Eyn'a?
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Bears release Robbie Gould. Cutler now the most tenured Bear.
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In fairness, we're all kind of online douches.
HEY! I resemble that remark
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Sitton to the Bears in a three year deal, reportedly.
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Sitton to the Bears in a three year deal, reportedly.
Well, if you wanna give a big FU to the Packers, that's the way to do it.
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Well, if you wanna give a big FU to the Packers, that's the way to do it.
...until the season starts and you miss the Playoffs and the Packers win the Division by 4 games.
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Well, if you wanna give a big FU to the Packers, that's the way to do it.
By signing a guy they didn't want???
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By signing a guy they didn't want???
Was talking about Sittons side of it. Bears had a dire need on the OL. Not like they're gonna be in the playoff picture but at least it will make games more watchable.
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Be interesting to see the final numbers on Sitton, Bears have ton of cap space, my guess is it's front loaded, but have to like the signing. Healthy, 30 year old, second team all pro's rarely hit the street, especially at a position of need. If Whitehair can develop at center between Long and Sitton, that's what I'd like to see come out of this season.
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Was talking about Sittons side of it. Bears had a dire need on the OL. Not like they're gonna be in the playoff picture but at least it will make games more watchable.
It's a good signing. I like what Pace is doing.
It's a long shot but I won't rule them out of the WC race.
Carolina, Arizona, Seattle, Green Bay, NFC East champ. To me that 6th spot is wide open right now.
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Was talking about Sittons side of it. Bears had a dire need on the OL. Not like they're gonna be in the playoff picture but at least it will make games more watchable.
I thought you were thinking that Sitton was going to sign as their new QB. Would be an upgrade.
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Be interesting to see the final numbers on Sitton, Bears have ton of cap space, my guess is it's front loaded, but have to like the signing. Healthy, 30 year old, second team all pro's rarely hit the street, especially at a position of need. If Whitehair can develop at center between Long and Sitton, that's what I'd like to see come out of this season.
3 year deal worth $21.5 mil, $10 guaranteed...that pretty good for a cast away. So who do the packers have that matches or beats sitton's pro bowl talent at what I'm assuming to be bargain $. Did they need the money/cap space? Hey,mother dude at least STOOD for the national anthem for chriminey sakes. I haven't read any comments from Rodgers et al
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Be interesting to see the final numbers on Sitton, Bears have ton of cap space, my guess is it's front loaded, but have to like the signing. Healthy, 30 year old, second team all pro's rarely hit the street, especially at a position of need. If Whitehair can develop at center between Long and Sitton, that's what I'd like to see come out of this season.
Not sure how healthy he is. That is part of the reason why they didn't want to extend.
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Not sure how healthy he is. That is part of the reason why they didn't want to extend.
I saw some mentions of him not being able to run block due to his back. Packers may just think this is the year he has a big drop. Although, I'm a little nervous about the backup options.
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I thought you were thinking that Sitton was going to sign as their new QB. Would be an upgrade.
Cutler isn't the problem. He's not a superstar but he's more than serviceable. We can all stop with this false sentiment now.
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Cutler isn't the problem. He's not a superstar but he's more than serviceable. We can all stop with this false sentiment now.
Yep.
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Still doesn't make sense to me on Sitton and the Pack. Even if they thought he would regress this year, he's not killing their cap. He at least passed a physical. Odds are very high they'd have gotten a compensatory pick once he left, probably at a decent number. They had nothing to lose by keeping him, and much to gain.
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There was a good article in the paper suggesting that this move was Lombardi-like comparing it to shipping off Ringo. I think it does 2 things. One, it reminds every player that they can be replaced. It had been probably since Greg Jennings or Sir Charles since Ted dumped a high profile vet. Two, it frees up cap money this year to do priority extensions including possibly Rodgers. I sense Ted felt a need to set a tone and felt a declining Sitton was the spot to do it in. Here's what I am 100% sure of. McCarthy was fully consulted and was 100% on board.
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There was a good article in the paper suggesting that this move was Lombardi-like comparing it to shipping off Ringo. I think it does 2 things. One, it reminds every player that they can be replaced. It had been probably since Greg Jennings or Sir Charles since Ted dumped a high profile vet. Two, it frees up cap money this year to do priority extensions including possibly Rodgers. I sense Ted felt a need to set a tone and felt a declining Sitton was the spot to do it in. Here's what I am 100% sure of. McCarthy was fully consulted and was 100% on board.
McCarthy not being on board wold make me feel better about it.
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Still doesn't make sense to me on Sitton and the Pack. Even if they thought he would regress this year, he's not killing their cap. He at least passed a physical. Odds are very high they'd have gotten a compensatory pick once he left, probably at a decent number. They had nothing to lose by keeping him, and much to gain.
Rumors are he was getting sour in the locker room because of his contract situation. Only way Ted knows about this is via McCarthy.
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Cutler isn't the problem. He's not a superstar but he's more than serviceable. We can all stop with this false sentiment now.
Maybe if he wins a 2nd career Playoff game I'll consider that he might not be a problem. Typically if your quarterback is good, you're competitive. Cutler's teams haven't been overly competitive.
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Maybe if he wins a 2nd career Playoff game I'll consider that he might not be a problem. Typically if your quarterback is good, you're competitive. Cutler's teams haven't been overly competitive.
Agreed.
If one combines length of time as a starter, salary in relation to others at the position and success/failure on the field, one probably would conclude that Cutler is the biggest underperformer in the history of NFL quarterbacks.
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Agreed.
If one combines length of time as a starter, salary in relation to others at the position and success/failure on the field, one probably would conclude that Cutler is the biggest underperformer in the history of NFL quarterbacks.
Salary, especially at the QB position, in regards to comparing to one's contemporaries, is absolutely meaningless when evaluating long term performance.
Cutler's career record is 68-68, and if one wanted to take salary into play, he is the 16th highest compensated QB in the league for 2016. By those metrics, he'd be average, which he probably is at this point.
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Maybe if he wins a 2nd career Playoff game I'll consider that he might not be a problem. Typically if your quarterback is good, you're competitive. Cutler's teams haven't been overly competitive.
Cutler is 50-47 as a starter with the Bears. For the most part, the talent on the team during the last three years has been abysmal. He's a guy you can win with if the talent level around him is good (two 10 win seasons and was 7-3 in another before getting hurt). However he's not able to carry a team like the elite QBs. He's not the problem - the team has just needed better talent.
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With some decent coaching last year Cutler played pretty well. But the one thing he'll never be able to fix is his reputation as a poor leader.
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Giving up a first round draft pick and a third or fourth rounder for a one year rental who is made of glass and has been marginal at best since he started in the NFL? Seems shortsighted to me.
1 year rental? He was snagged for a reason no idea with teddy.
You realize that 1st round picks are pro bowlers 30% of time right?
This team is in win now mode. So you avoid improving QB(yes he's a major improvement and fits the offense perfect) to "hope" that a draft pick pans out?
You could draft a Randy Moss, but you also could get Troy Williamson.
The Vikings don't have a lot of holes that make a 1st round pick a must.
Sorry, but I'd much rather go for it all with this defense, AP at 31 and our young receiving core gelling then throw in the towel and hope that mid 1st round lineman becomes Jonathan Ogden.
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Exactly. I would have considered just the 4th rounder as a real win for the Eagles. Now there is a very good possibility they get a top 10 overall pick as well.
LOL at the Vikings being a top 10 pick.
They could start ponder and still finish with a record better than 10 teams.
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LOL at the Vikings being a top 10 pick.
They could start ponder and still finish with a record better than 10 teams.
Ponder's career record as a starter with the Vikings was 14-21-1, with plenty of talent around him.
Just sayin'.....
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Ponder's career record as a starter with the Vikings was 14-21-1, with plenty of talent around him.
Just sayin'.....
Ehhh... year 1 he went 2-8, coming in after McNabb started us off 1-5. AP got injured that year, only played in 12 games and had less than 1,000 yards on the year. He played with AP for six games, with two games of more than 60 yards rushing by AP... he went 2-4 with AP and lost two of those 4 by less than a TD.
Year 2 he went 10-6 with plenty of talent around him.
Year 3... 2-6-1... top receiver was flippin 30 year old Greg Jennings (804 yards) and Jerome Simpson (726).. no one else with 500+.. SS Hitman Harry injured and missed half the season..
I think the feeling is this year we've got more talent than Ponder year 1 or 3... he's not good, but he could manage staying out of the bottom 10 this year, IMO.
Wish we didn't have to give up as much as we did, but I'm OK with it. I think we have a better chance to win more games with Bradford than we do without. He's been a disappointment, but he gives some of us a little hope that he can show what some think he should have shown over the years but hasn't..
Anyway, see y'all in the playoffs. #SuperBowlSam
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1 year rental? He was snagged for a reason no idea with teddy.
You realize that 1st round picks are pro bowlers 30% of time right?
This team is in win now mode. So you avoid improving QB(yes he's a major improvement and fits the offense perfect) to "hope" that a draft pick pans out?
You could draft a Randy Moss, but you also could get Troy Williamson.
The Vikings don't have a lot of holes that make a 1st round pick a must.
Sorry, but I'd much rather go for it all with this defense, AP at 31 and our young receiving core gelling then throw in the towel and hope that mid 1st round lineman becomes Jonathan Ogden.
Sam Bradford is an improvement at quarterback????
Again, is there some other Sam Bradford that I don't know about???
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Wish we didn't have to give up as much as we did, but I'm OK with it. I think we have a better chance to win more games with Bradford than we do without. He's been a disappointment, but he gives some of us a little hope that he can show what some think he should have shown over the years but hasn't..
That right there is a reasonable opinion.
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With some decent coaching last year Cutler played pretty well. But the one thing he'll never be able to fix is his reputation as a poor leader.
Cutler is one of those QBs who, as often as not, has tended to play just well enough to lose.
I remember the game the Bears had in Charlotte a couple years ago. The Bears were in control, led for most of the game, and Cutler was doing just fine. And then, like clockwork, Cutler threw an ill-advised pass that was picked off and, soon enough, the Panthers were on their way to victory.
How many times have we seen that happen over his entire career, including his three very frustrating years in Denver? For a half or more, you watch him and go, "Damn, this guy has TALENT!" And then, bingo-bango-bongo, there's the pick-6 or the fumbled snap and you remember why he has been able to win all of one playoff game his entire career.
In the Panthers game, Forte had a key fumble and Gould missed a FG he usually makes, so as usual Cutler had plenty of help in the loss.
But Cutler is the QB, the leader, the highest-paid guy on the team and the highest-profile guy. It's very difficult for a team to overcome that guy making two or three boneheaded mistakes in a game. Plus, he rips his own teammates, has terrible body language when facing adversity and makes facial expressions that convey, "It's not my fault. Blame them."
He is, in a word, a loser.
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I think Cutler was a problem and limiting factor back in 2010 and when the Bears were a contender in the North. Now he's not high on the list of problems, but because he was high early in his career there, people tend to still blame him.
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1 year rental? He was snagged for a reason no idea with teddy.
You realize that 1st round picks are pro bowlers 30% of time right?
This team is in win now mode. So you avoid improving QB(yes he's a major improvement and fits the offense perfect) to "hope" that a draft pick pans out?
You could draft a Randy Moss, but you also could get Troy Williamson.
The Vikings don't have a lot of holes that make a 1st round pick a must.
Sorry, but I'd much rather go for it all with this defense, AP at 31 and our young receiving core gelling then throw in the towel and hope that mid 1st round lineman becomes Jonathan Ogden.
I'm wondering why you think Bradford is an improvement over Hill.
Bradford has proven to be an awful QB every single year in the NFL. There is not one shred of evidence that he is worthy of being a starter. I guess I would need to be shown how he is better than Hill.
And they gave up a #1 and a #4 for this scrub. I put the over / under for wins at 7 for the Queens. If AP gets hurt, the number goes down to 3.5.
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Cutler is one of those QBs who, as often as not, has tended to play just well enough to lose.
I remember the game the Bears had in Charlotte a couple years ago. The Bears were in control, led for most of the game, and Cutler was doing just fine. And then, like clockwork, Cutler threw an ill-advised pass that was picked off and, soon enough, the Panthers were on their way to victory.
How many times have we seen that happen over his entire career, including his three very frustrating years in Denver? For a half or more, you watch him and go, "Damn, this guy has TALENT!" And then, bingo-bango-bongo, there's the pick-6 or the fumbled snap and you remember why he has been able to win all of one playoff game his entire career.
In the Panthers game, Forte had a key fumble and Gould missed a FG he usually makes, so as usual Cutler had plenty of help in the loss.
But Cutler is the QB, the leader, the highest-paid guy on the team and the highest-profile guy. It's very difficult for a team to overcome that guy making two or three boneheaded mistakes in a game. Plus, he rips his own teammates, has terrible body language when facing adversity and makes facial expressions that convey, "It's not my fault. Blame them."
He is, in a word, a loser.
I'm not going to argue most of this, but on the sidelines, Cutler hasn't been like Rodgers or Brady yelling openly at teammates. Yes, he has indifferent body language, but he actually has gone out of his way in the media to always support his teammates (see last week with Kevin White).
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Sam Bradford is an improvement at quarterback????
Again, is there some other Sam Bradford that I don't know about???
Yes, do you watch much football? Forget the fact that he's at least been experienced starting compared to Hill(Bradfords back up in St Louis) but he fits the offense like a glove.
A team that went 11-5 asking Teddy to throw 14 TDs and 9 InTS is bringing in a guy wth the 6th lowest INT% of all time.
He completes passes, doesn't throw it to the other team and is working with his best supporting cast by a good mile.
It's actually pretty easy to see. He also had a receiving group that lead the NFL in drops last year.
Is Bradford a stud? Hell no. Is he worth getting on a cheap(for QB standards) deal to help a win now roster? Yes.
Unless you can gurantee me that with the 17th pick next year the Vikings will draft Aaron Rodgers clone.
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I'm not going to argue most of this, but on the sidelines, Cutler hasn't been like Rodgers or Brady yelling openly at teammates. Yes, he has indifferent body language, but he actually has gone out of his way in the media to always support his teammates (see last week with Kevin White).
Cutler not yelling at teammates is not necessarily a good thing. The QB is the guy who should hold players on the offense accountable when they don't do their jobs.
Brady and Rodgers are openly supportive of teammates as well as critical when they need to be. I have never seen either guy jump on someone for a physical mistake. Mental errors? Absolutely.
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Ehhh... year 1 he went 2-8, coming in after McNabb started us off 1-5. AP got injured that year, only played in 12 games and had less than 1,000 yards on the year. He played with AP for six games, with two games of more than 60 yards rushing by AP... he went 2-4 with AP and lost two of those 4 by less than a TD.
Year 2 he went 10-6 with plenty of talent around him.
Year 3... 2-6-1... top receiver was flippin 30 year old Greg Jennings (804 yards) and Jerome Simpson (726).. no one else with 500+.. SS Hitman Harry injured and missed half the season..
I think the feeling is this year we've got more talent than Ponder year 1 or 3... he's not good, but he could manage staying out of the bottom 10 this year, IMO.
Wish we didn't have to give up as much as we did, but I'm OK with it. I think we have a better chance to win more games with Bradford than we do without. He's been a disappointment, but he gives some of us a little hope that he can show what some think he should have shown over the years but hasn't..
Anyway, see y'all in the playoffs. #SuperBowlSam
Sounds like a whole lot of excuse making to me. Guess that's what you have to fall back on when you never win anything.
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I think the body language thing is the dumbest criticism of Cutler. If he were really a problem, they would have dumped him. His biggest problem it seems to me isn't seeing all the defenders and therefore throwing it into coverage too often.
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Yes, do you watch much football? Forget the fact that he's at least been experienced starting compared to Hill(Bradfords back up in St Louis) but he fits the offense like a glove.
A team that went 11-5 asking Teddy to throw 14 TDs and 9 InTS is bringing in a guy wth the 6th lowest INT% of all time.
He completes passes, doesn't throw it to the other team and is working with his best supporting cast by a good mile.
It's actually pretty easy to see. He also had a receiving group that lead the NFL in drops last year.
Is Bradford a stud? Hell no. Is he worth getting on a cheap(for QB standards) deal to help a win now roster? Yes.
Unless you can gurantee me that with the 17th pick next year the Vikings will draft Aaron Rodgers clone.
I misread your post. I thought you meant Bradford was an improvement over Bridgewater.
But he still sucks. And it isn't just because of the team around him. He just isn't very good.
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I misread your post. I thought you meant Bradford was an improvement over Bridgewater.
But he still sucks. And it isn't just because of the team around him. He just isn't very good.
I definitely don't like him over Teddy. I think Teddy was ready for a huge jump this year and the setback is even worse.
But if Bradford plays like he did last year(even without considering better talent around him) this team will compete. It's all this offense requires.
It's basically the reason no "experts" as they are reffered to have really had an issue with this deal. And rumors are other teams wanted even more.
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The theory that the Vikes opportunity cost for Bradford is a mid first round pick is misinformed. It negates that Bradford was available in March for fifty cents on the dollar. They paid $1.50 for him, when the market valued him right now at "maybe" 85 cents. It negates that they could have drafted someone this past draft as a backup, or gone out and signed someone like Hoyer this offseason. Every team should seriously consider what happens if their starter goes down for the season. Now, it's hard to find 32 capable starters, let alone backups. But if they disliked Hill that much, they should have addressed it earlier. The first rounder they gave up doesn't have to be a mid first round pick. It's critical capital that can be used to trade up/down to acquire more/better inexpensive players.
I can understand why the Vikes did it, but it's still a horrible trade.
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A team that went 11-5 asking Teddy to throw 14 TDs and 9 InTS is bringing in a guy wth the 6th lowest INT% of all time.
Excellent job at cherry-picking. Let me try.
Bradford is 164th all-time in TD percentage - behind luminaries like Billie Joe Tolliver, Eric Hipple, Rex Grossman, Byron Leftwich, Bubby Brister, Gus Frerrotte, Kyle Orton, Josh McCownm Tim Couch, and of course Mark Sanchez.
Minny has a nice defense - but no defense is good enough to overcome this.
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The theory that the Vikes opportunity cost for Bradford is a mid first round pick is misinformed. It negates that Bradford was available in March for fifty cents on the dollar. They paid $1.50 for him, when the market valued him right now at "maybe" 85 cents. It negates that they could have drafted someone this past draft as a backup, or gone out and signed someone like Hoyer this offseason. Every team should seriously consider what happens if their starter goes down for the season. Now, it's hard to find 32 capable starters, let alone backups. But if they disliked Hill that much, they should have addressed it earlier. The first rounder they gave up doesn't have to be a mid first round pick. It's critical capital that can be used to trade up/down to acquire more/better inexpensive players.
I can understand why the Vikes did it, but it's still a horrible trade.
No it's not.
If the pick means that much to them(it doesn't)
They have so many picks stockpiled they could easy trade both 3rd next year for a early second round pick.
Now you got a early 2nd rounder and a late second rounder instead of a mid first and late second.
The vikes always make moves with picks, if they want to get somewhere they will make it happen.
Again, unless you can gurantee me that by tanking this year they can get Andrew Lucks doppleganger, it's a well thought risk.
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I definitely don't like him over Teddy. I think Teddy was ready for a huge jump this year and the setback is even worse.
But if Bradford plays like he did last year(even without considering better talent around him) this team will compete. It's all this offense requires.
It's basically the reason no "experts" as they are reffered to have really had an issue with this deal. And rumors are other teams wanted even more.
If Sam plays like he did last year, the other 3 teams in the division will be overjoyed. Teddy's QB rating last year was much higher than Sam's best year.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/some-nfl-execs-cant-believe-what-the-vikings-gave-up-for-sam-bradford/
Bradford has now been dumped twice by teams desperate for a QB. That says it all.
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But if Bradford plays like he did last year(even without considering better talent around him) this team will compete. It's all this offense requires.
So if he finishes 31 out of 33 in QBR, and 25 out of 35 in passer rating, that's all this offense requires?
Then how come they didn't do better last year with a CLEARLY better quarterback?
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No it's not.
If the pick means that much to them(it doesn't)
They have so many picks stockpiled they could easy trade both 3rd next year for a early second round pick.
Now you got a early 2nd rounder and a late second rounder instead of a mid first and late second.
The vikes always make moves with picks, if they want to get somewhere they will make it happen.
Again, unless you can gurantee me that by tanking this year they can get Andrew Lucks doppleganger, it's a well thought risk.
Thank you for helping to validate my point.
If it was a well thought risk, and the Vikes apparently don't care about their first round picks, why didn't they trade for Bradford in March or April when he could have been had for a 4th or 5th round pick? By your logic, with all the extra picks Spielman stockpiles, why not use that extra mid round capital then to address the backup QB?
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No it's not.
If the pick means that much to them(it doesn't)
They have so many picks stockpiled they could easy trade both 3rd next year for a early second round pick.
Now you got a early 2nd rounder and a late second rounder instead of a mid first and late second.
The vikes always make moves with picks, if they want to get somewhere they will make it happen.
Again, unless you can gurantee me that by tanking this year they can get Andrew Lucks doppleganger, it's a well thought risk.
Two 3rds will not get an early 2nd rounder - maybe a mid 2nd if both 3rds are in the 1st half of the round.
And where is the late 2nd rounder coming from?
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I'm wondering why you think Bradford is an improvement over Hill.
Bradford has proven to be an awful QB every single year in the NFL. There is not one shred of evidence that he is worthy of being a starter. I guess I would need to be shown how he is better than Hill.
Hill is an elderly man who has started in the NFL one season (8 games) in the past five seasons. Bradford is 28 and has started more than 60 games over that same time period.
There is a reason why.
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I'm not going to argue most of this, but on the sidelines, Cutler hasn't been like Rodgers or Brady yelling openly at teammates. Yes, he has indifferent body language, but he actually has gone out of his way in the media to always support his teammates (see last week with Kevin White).
Well, he didn't "always support" this guy, and this was the blowup I remember ...
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap1000000063455/article/jay-cutler-criticized-by-bears-teammate-for-yelling
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Hill is an elderly man who has started in the NFL one season (8 games) in the past five seasons. Bradford is 28 and has started more than 60 games over that same time period.
There is a reason why.
Desperation?
Mark Sanchez had a higher QB rating as Philly's starting QB in 2014 than Bradford did in 2015.
And as for those 60+ games that Sam started - all they did was convince both teams to dump him as soon as they had a chance.
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Two 3rds will not get an early 2nd rounder - maybe a mid 2nd if both 3rds are in the 1st half of the round.
And where is the late 2nd rounder coming from?
When the Vikings finish around 10th in the NFL this year.
This will have the 20th pick in the second round, possibly better their schedule.
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So if he finishes 31 out of 33 in QBR, and 25 out of 35 in passer rating, that's all this offense requires?
Then how come they didn't do better last year with a CLEARLY better quarterback?
Uhhhhh I said the team will compete. I mean last year they went 11-5 and won the division so that's certainly even more than competing.
Clearly better?
Teddy passer rating was better by about 2. Yards per attempt and completion were basically identical. Both had very low int rates.
And yeah, Bradford played with a god awful supporting cast and no running game.
Again, Teddy is better. But if he can go 11-5 playing the NFC and AFC West I think Bradford can compete against his schedule.
Again, it's why no one around the league is bashing the move. He's all the offense needs.
Could just wait 8 weeks and get back to me?
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I'm not going to argue most of this, but on the sidelines, Cutler hasn't been like Rodgers or Brady yelling openly at teammates. Yes, he has indifferent body language, but he actually has gone out of his way in the media to always support his teammates (see last week with Kevin White).
True.
Jay usually reserves his open disdain and yelling for the coaching staff.
Oh, and the ball boys.
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Plus, he rips his own teammates, has terrible body language when facing adversity and makes facial expressions that convey, "It's not my fault. Blame them."
He is, in a word, a loser.
This is just lazy and shows how perceptions do not change even if the player and the behavior do change.
Cutler certainly earned that reputation. However, there has been a pretty significant change in his leadership, interactions with teammates, and dealing with the media over the past couple of years.
Fox and Pace would have jettisoned him already if that were still an issue.
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Uhhhhh I said the team will compete. I mean last year they went 11-5 and won the division so that's certainly even more than competing.
Clearly better?
Teddy passer rating was better by about 2. Yards per attempt and completion were basically identical. Both had very low int rates.
And yeah, Bradford played with a god awful supporting cast and no running game.
Again, Teddy is better. But if he can go 11-5 playing the NFC and AFC West I think Bradford can compete against his schedule.
Again, it's why no one around the league is bashing the move. He's all the offense needs.
Could just wait 8 weeks and get back to me?
I've seen plenty of bashing of the move, and rightfully so. Bradford making the Vikes a better team after the injury and it being an awful trade are not mutually exclusive.
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True.
Jay usually reserves his open disdain and yelling for the coaching staff.
Oh, and the ball boys.
I always loved the hot mic that picked up Cutler instructing the sideline to tell Martz "eff you".
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I've seen plenty of bashing of the move, and rightfully so. Bradford making the Vikes a better team after the injury and it being an awful trade are not mutually exclusive.
Well yeah, there have been loads of casual people like you and I bashing it.
But the "talking heads" so to speak, around the league have almost unanimously liked the move. Called it risky, but liked it.
Even that bumbling buffoon Herman Edwards liked it for both sides.
Also, if Zimmer is on board smart money is side with him. He's smarter than us all.
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As a Packers fan, I love this move.
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Well yeah, there have been loads of casual people like you and I bashing it.
But the "talking heads" so to speak, around the league have almost unanimously liked the move. Called it risky, but liked it.
Even that bumbling buffoon Herman Edwards liked it for both sides.
Also, if Zimmer is on board smart money is side with him. He's smarter than us all.
I guess I'm not sure which talking heads you're referring to. I understand going out and making a move. I'm just very surprised at the cost and that MN agreed to it. We'll see how it plays out.
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You realize that 1st round picks are pro bowlers 30% of time right?
Well Bradford has a 1% chance of being a pro bowler this season so I guess the 30% is better, a ina?
I get that the Vikings are in win now mode but I don't see Bradford leading the Vikes to the playoffs. I think they fall just short with a mid level draft position without their first and fourth round picks.
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This is just lazy and shows how perceptions do not change even if the player and the behavior do change.
Cutler certainly earned that reputation. However, there has been a pretty significant change in his leadership, interactions with teammates, and dealing with the media over the past couple of years.
Fox and Pace would have jettisoned him already if that were still an issue.
Oh, you've really wounded me with the lazy charge.
I gotta go take a nap now.
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Could just wait 8 weeks and get back to me?
No prob.
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The Rams traded Bradford to Philly last year in exchange for Nick effin Foles!
A year later, the Eagles were so disenchanted with Sam that they traded FIVE drft picks (including two first-rounders) to draft Carson Wentz. This was after the best 10 game stretch of his career and they still could see he was no good.
Shaun Hill has a better record as a starter, higher completion% as a starter, higher TD % as a starter and more yards per attempt as a starter.
After the Rams made Bradford the first pick in 2010, he never averaged more than 6.7 yards per pass. When Bradford missed the 2014 season with a torn ACL, with many of the same teammates in St. Louis, Hill started eight games for the Rams and averaged 7.2 yards per pass.
Bradford is where he is because he was a #1 overall pick. If he was drafted a dozen picks later, he is Mark Sanchez.
And let's not forget the Minny defense is good - not great. Their defense was only 12th in the league in points allowed per drive. If they rank 12th again, they might win 6 or 7 games.
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Desperation?
Mark Sanchez had a higher QB rating as Philly's starting QB in 2014 than Bradford did in 2015.
...this is about Bradford vs Hill, but... in 2015, Bradford 14 GS; Sanchez 2
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Oh, you've really wounded me with the lazy charge.
I gotta go take a nap now.
Sorry. Maybe uninformed would have been more accurate.
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Sorry. Maybe uninformed would have been more accurate.
Oh, please stop. This really hurts.
But do please continue educating the rest of us lazy dopes about the wonders of Jay Cutler, Winner Extraordinaire!
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Oh, please stop. This really hurts.
But do please continue educating the rest of us lazy dopes about the wonders of Jay Cutler, Winner Extraordinaire!
Yes, my intentions are to really hurt you with my scathing comments.
I'm not Cutler apologist. I never said he he was a great QB or that he didn't earn his sh*tty reputation. It was well-deserved. But it's simply not the case anymore so what's the issue with calling someone out on that? Your comments were lazy.
He also has a foundation for kids with diabetes and does a lot of under the radar charity work from what I understand. What a loser.
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Yes, my intentions are to really hurt you with my scathing comments.
I'm not Cutler apologist. I never said he he was a great QB or that he didn't earn his sh*tty reputation. It was well-deserved. But it's simply not the case anymore so what's the issue with calling someone out on that? Your comments were lazy.
He also has a foundation for kids with diabetes and does a lot of under the radar charity work from what I understand. What a loser.
He really should vaccinate his kids though.
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Fox and Pace would have jettisoned him already if that were still an issue.
Would that be the same Ryan Pace and John Fox that brought on Ray McDonald last year?
Yep, they're all about character players.
Realistically, there's no way they could have jettisoned Cutler if they wanted to. There's zero trade market for a mediocre QB with a $17 million cap hit, and his contract was structured so that while cutting him after this season is easy, cutting him any earlier would be terrible for the Bears cap situation. They're not keeping Cutler because he's a changed man. They're keeping him because they have no choice.
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One question I think Vikings fans need to ponder. Was last year the high water mark, especially because the Packers had a down year? If one's answer is yes, then the trade might not have been the best idea. Wouldn'tit have been bbetter to hang onto the picks and brought in a more cost effective stopgap? I'm old enough to remember the John Hadl mistake. Now admittedly this isn't nearly as expensive.
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Easy ta see watt you did der, hey?
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One question I think Vikings fans need to ponder. Was last year the high water mark, especially because the Packers had a down year? If one's answer is yes, then the trade might not have been the best idea. Wouldn'tit have been bbetter to hang onto the picks and brought in a more cost effective stopgap? I'm old enough to remember the John Hadl mistake. Now admittedly this isn't nearly as expensive.
Agreed. I think that's the problem here. Vikings fans think that last year was just the first step of many and that they're ready to win a Super Bowl. In my opinion, last year was the year that all the stars aligned and they still only managed a Wild Card round loss. With or without Teddy, in my opinion, the Vikings weren't a Super Bowl team.
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Would that be the same Ryan Pace and John Fox that brought on Ray McDonald last year?
Yep, they're all about character players.
Realistically, there's no way they could have jettisoned Cutler if they wanted to. There's zero trade market for a mediocre QB with a $17 million cap hit, and his contract was structured so that while cutting him after this season is easy, cutting him any earlier would be terrible for the Bears cap situation. They're not keeping Cutler because he's a changed man. They're keeping him because they have no choice.
Exactly.
I have no idea where this idea that Cutler is a changed player came from. He's not changed at all. What has changed is that the players around him have gotten worse. So he might look better because the talent around him isn't as good, so compared to them he's great, but that doesn't mean he's actually gotten better.
He's still bad. He just has a coach who's on his second go around with him and understands that he needs to take the ball out of his hands as much as possible if he wants to win. Unfortunately for him, even doing that, he doesn't have the hands to put the ball in to carry his team to a lot of wins.
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I'm forgetting when Culture's contract becomes more cap friendly but it's exactly correct that up until that point he couldn't be cut or traded without a huge impact.
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Exactly.
I have no idea where this idea that Cutler is a changed player came from. He's not changed at all. What has changed is that the players around him have gotten worse. So he might look better because the talent around him isn't as good, so compared to them he's great, but that doesn't mean he's actually gotten better.
He's still bad. He just has a coach who's on his second go around with him and understands that he needs to take the ball out of his hands as much as possible if he wants to win. Unfortunately for him, even doing that, he doesn't have the hands to put the ball in to carry his team to a lot of wins.
Cutler hasn't changed. The media's narrative about him has changed. He still has poor body language, he still fails to produce up to his talent and he still isn't all that media friendly, but he's also still well-respected in the locker room, he still has inferior talent around him and he's still not nearly as bad as some people like to claim.
The change took place because people are realizing that Cutler didn't "get coordinators fired," he had awful coordinators. Cutler had a solid season last year because, despite the lack of play-makers on offense, he had a legit NFL coordinator for the first time as a Bear.
At the end of the day, Cutler is a slightly above average QB. He's not the type of QB who's going to raise the play of mediocre players and/or carry a team to a title. He can win the occasional game by himself and he can lose the occasional game by himself. None of that has changed. He is who he is. The only thing that has changed is the way he's viewed.
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Ehhh... year 1 he went 2-8, coming in after McNabb started us off 1-5. AP got injured that year, only played in 12 games and had less than 1,000 yards on the year. He played with AP for six games, with two games of more than 60 yards rushing by AP... he went 2-4 with AP and lost two of those 4 by less than a TD.
Year 2 he went 10-6 with plenty of talent around him.
Year 3... 2-6-1... top receiver was flippin 30 year old Greg Jennings (804 yards) and Jerome Simpson (726).. no one else with 500+.. SS Hitman Harry injured and missed half the season..
I think the feeling is this year we've got more talent than Ponder year 1 or 3... he's not good, but he could manage staying out of the bottom 10 this year, IMO.
Wish we didn't have to give up as much as we did, but I'm OK with it. I think we have a better chance to win more games with Bradford than we do without. He's been a disappointment, but he gives some of us a little hope that he can show what some think he should have shown over the years but hasn't..
Anyway, see y'all in the playoffs. #SuperBowlSam
Ask yourself why the Rams and now Eagles were both happy to let Bradford go...and why no other team was going after him.
Teddy couldn't get you to the SB, nor could Favre, Culpepper or Cunningham. But Sam Bradford will? Is Jesse Pinkman cooking again?
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At the end of the day, Cutler is a slightly above average QB. He's not the type of QB who's going to raise the play of mediocre players and/or carry a team to a title. He can win the occasional game by himself and he can lose the occasional game by himself. None of that has changed. He is who he is. The only thing that has changed is the way he's viewed.
What convinces you he's above average, slightly or otherwise? Since becoming a Bear, his passer rating rank has been: 21st, 16th, 13th, 20th, 13th, 17th, 16th.
Average would be a kind assessment. Above average is a far too generous.
By the way, the constant yammering about him not having talent around him is far off the mark. He's had arguably the best all-around back in football lining up behind him for the past seven years. He's had Pro Bowl-caliber receivers (Marshall, Jeffrey) and tight ends (Bennett, Olson). He's had mostly bad offensive line play, but the Bears have not failed to surround him with talent at the skill positions.
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Ask yourself why the Rams and now Eagles were both happy to let Bradford go...and why no other team was going after him.
Teddy couldn't get you to the SB, nor could Favre, Culpepper or Cunningham. But Sam Bradford will? Is Jesse Pinkman cooking again?
Long-suffering Viking fan here. The team's strength remains its defense. Any reasonable expectation of Bridgewater was that he was going to be better this year due to another year under his belt and perhaps better receivers. Every season is a crapshoot, but teams go in with certain expectations of either better or worse than last year. We Viking fans until the injury that the team was set up for a better year than last.
On the flip side, losing Bridgewater is not like the Packers losing Rodgers. The defense will still keep the team in many games this season and perhaps the offense will find a way to grind out a victory. I predict 7-9 to 9-7 range -- do remember that the Vikings do get to play the Lions and Bears twice.
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I'm excited for Cutler to be gone quite simply for the Cutler fatigue I have in talking about him.
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I'm excited for Cutler to be gone quite simply for the Cutler fatigue I have in talking about him.
The Derrick Wilson of Quarterbacks.
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The Derrick Wilson of Quarterbacks.
(https://media.giphy.com/media/IOxeKSBoyhsE8/giphy.gif)
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The Derrick Wilson of Quarterbacks.
Would that make wades the Ners of this thread?
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I'm excited for Cutler to be gone quite simply for the Cutler fatigue I have in talking about him.
Same here.
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The Derrick Wilson of Quarterbacks.
Caleb Hanie has passing skills like John Elway.
Imagine what could have been if only he hadn't been nailed to the bench.
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Agreed. I think that's the problem here. Vikings fans think that last year was just the first step of many and that they're ready to win a Super Bowl. In my opinion, last year was the year that all the stars aligned and they still only managed a Wild Card round loss. With or without Teddy, in my opinion, the Vikings weren't a Super Bowl team.
They most definitely were a fringe SB team - in the conversation but still the 5th best team in the NFC, so a lot would have to go right . After Teddy's injury they are still the 5th best team in the NFC but the gap between #1 and #5 grew a bit. I know you said 'IMO' so i'm not necessarily calling you out, I'm using the bold to typify the 'Vike's are and were screwed regardless' or 'i don't like the Vikings so i refuse to see any good in their organization' vibe.
I averaged 7 NFL power rankings and the Vikings came in at #10. 5 of the 7 made reference to the injury and without the other two they are still #10 (GB around 5, Detroit 21, and Chicago 25 (none of the rankings specifically discussed Cutler's leadership qualities)). I'm sure everyone on Scoop that has ever finished higher than 4th in their fantasy league will tell me that preseason polls are worthless........but as a leading indicator to how the industry pros view the rest of the Vikings roster and coaching staffs ability to game plan i'll take #10.
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They most definitely were a fringe SB team - in the conversation but still the 5th best team in the NFC, so a lot would have to go right . After Teddy's injury they are still the 5th best team in the NFC but the gap between #1 and #5 grew a bit. I know you said 'IMO' so i'm not necessarily calling you out, I'm using the bold to typify the 'Vike's are and were screwed regardless' or 'i don't like the Vikings so i refuse to see any good in their organization' vibe.
I averaged 7 NFL power rankings and the Vikings came in at #10. 5 of the 7 made reference to the injury and without the other two they are still #10 (GB around 5, Detroit 21, and Chicago 25 (none of the rankings specifically discussed Cutler's leadership qualities)). I'm sure everyone on Scoop that has ever finished higher than 4th in their fantasy league will tell me that preseason polls are worthless........but as a leading indicator to how the industry pros view the rest of the Vikings roster and coaching staffs ability to game plan i'll take #10.
I guess it depends on how you look at the term "screwed." With Teddy I would've expected them to make the Playoffs and maybe win a game. Without Teddy I expect them to be on the bubble of making the Playoffs. I don't think Teddy is a top or even 2nd tier quarterback, and I think the Vikings coaches know that and take the ball out of his hands (helps to have the child beating Peterson in the backfield). I don't think this really changes the Vikings season significantly.
I personally don't think that going into a season there are 1/3 of the teams in the NFL who have a realistic chance to win a Super Bowl. I think it's more like 5 or 6 teams tops that have a realistic chance to win a Super Bowl. I don't think the Vikings would've been in that group, with or without Teddy. Doesn't mean I think the Vikings suck. Just means I think you need to be elite to win a Super Bowl, and I don't think the Vikings are elite, whether it's Teddy or Bradford leading the team.
I guess what I'm getting at is that just because a team went 11-5 and returns all its key pieces it doesn't mean they're automatically going to be 13-3 the next season. It certainly can happen, but it's also nowhere close to a certainty, especially in football. I'm of the belief that things went as well as they could've for the Vikings last year and that it's not overly likely to have all the cards fall your way two years in a row.
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I guess what I'm getting at is that just because a team went 11-5 and returns all its key pieces it doesn't mean they're automatically going to be 13-3 the next season.
You mean like the Lions going 10-6 then 4-12 (2011 & 2012) or the Lions going 11-5 then 7-9 the last 2 years?
I'm curious how the Bradford trade will affect the Vikings salary cap in the short term now that they are paying Bradford, Bridgewater, Hill and AP roughly $24 Million. Since Favre's retirement the Vikings have had budget QB's that were easy on the cap.
Bradford is due a $4 million payment and AP a $6 million payment in the 1st week of the next NFL year long before they know the timing of Bridgewater's return. They likely will have to assume Bradford being on the roster next year as well.
No other team is scheduled to have more than $28.41 million committed to its quarterback and running back in 2017
http://www.espn.com/blog/minnesota-vikings/post/_/id/20090/sam-bradford-adrian-peterson-pairing-means-tough-financial-decisions-await-vikings
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Caleb Hanie has passing skills like John Elway.
Imagine what could have been if only he hadn't been nailed to the bench.
Did Hanie throw 30yd out routes routinely in high school?
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I guess it depends on how you look at the term "screwed." With Teddy I would've expected them to make the Playoffs and maybe win a game. Without Teddy I expect them to be on the bubble of making the Playoffs. I don't think Teddy is a top or even 2nd tier quarterback, and I think the Vikings coaches know that and take the ball out of his hands (helps to have the child beating Peterson in the backfield). I don't think this really changes the Vikings season significantly.
I personally don't think that going into a season there are 1/3 of the teams in the NFL who have a realistic chance to win a Super Bowl. I think it's more like 5 or 6 teams tops that have a realistic chance to win a Super Bowl. I don't think the Vikings would've been in that group, with or without Teddy. Doesn't mean I think the Vikings suck. Just means I think you need to be elite to win a Super Bowl, and I don't think the Vikings are elite, whether it's Teddy or Bradford leading the team.
I guess what I'm getting at is that just because a team went 11-5 and returns all its key pieces it doesn't mean they're automatically going to be 13-3 the next season. It certainly can happen, but it's also nowhere close to a certainty, especially in football. I'm of the belief that things went as well as they could've for the Vikings last year and that it's not overly likely to have all the cards fall your way two years in a row.
From a NFC North rival fans POV that's more than fair/sane point of view. Heck, even from a Vike's fans POV i would have argued against 13-3. I expect wild card and, depending on the health of the D, maybe a nice surprise in January.
Bonus topic: Vikings draft and cut a guy named Willie Beavers and nobody comments on that?
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From a NFC North rival fans POV that's more than fair/sane point of view. Heck, even from a Vike's fans POV i would have argued against 13-3. I expect wild card and, depending on the health of the D, maybe a nice surprise in January.
Bonus topic: Vikings draft and cut a guy named Willie Beavers and nobody comments on that?
By cracky?
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Easy ta see watt you did der, hey?
Ponder what a SMOKIN wife he had, Eyn'a?
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By cracky?
Love yer suit
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Here's the problem for the Vikings. They're trying to incorporate a QB on the fly. That's going to cost them for at least the first half. On the flip side, Packers fans are in a tizzy because Ted planned and dumped his LG. Pretty big difference. It'll be interesting to see if Minny can muster enough success to challenge for a WC slot. My gut says no. To do so they'll need to go 4-0 against the Bears/Lions.
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Here's the problem for the Vikings. They're trying to incorporate a QB on the fly. That's going to cost them for at least the first half. On the flip side, Packers fans are in a tizzy because Ted planned and dumped his LG. Pretty big difference. It'll be interesting to see if Minny can muster enough success to challenge for a WC slot. My gut says no. To do so they'll need to go 4-0 against the Bears/Lions.
I'm curious to know what you think Ted had a plan for his LG. Lane Taylor is not a good plan in my opinion.
Minnesota will be okay. Absolute worst case is 7 wins and 10 if things go perfect. Most likely somewhere in the middle.
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I'm curious to know what you think Ted had a plan for his LG. Lane Taylor is not a good plan in my opinion.
Lane Taylor until Linsley comes back. Then Tretter to guard.
If Taylor doesn't work out, and Linsley is too hurt, move Bulaga inside and start the new guy at tackle.
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Lane Taylor until Linsley comes back. Then Tretter to guard.
If Taylor doesn't work out, and Linsley is too hurt, move Bulaga inside and start the new guy at tackle.
I do think that's the plan but I think that's a lot of potential midseason shuffling going on. I don't know. Never really played competitive football and certainly never on the line so maybe it's easier than I think it'd be. Guess we'll see.
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I'm curious to know what you think Ted had a plan for his LG. Lane Taylor is not a good plan in my opinion.
Minnesota will be okay. Absolute worst case is 7 wins and 10 if things go perfect. Most likely somewhere in the middle.
What I think is happening is that Ted is working on ARodg's contract and views Taylor as 'ready enough' in consultation with McCarthy. $6 MM is a bunch for a LG. I disagree with you that 7 wins is 'worst case' for the Vikings. Remember that they play the 1st place schedule.
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The Derrick Wilson of Quarterbacks.
Well done.
That's point number 2 for you this week. And you didn't even need to gig wades on this one.
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Here's the problem for the Vikings. They're trying to incorporate a QB on the fly. That's going to cost them for at least the first half. On the flip side, Packers fans are in a tizzy because Ted planned and dumped his LG. Pretty big difference. It'll be interesting to see if Minny can muster enough success to challenge for a WC slot. My gut says no. To do so they'll need to go 4-0 against the Bears/Lions.
Agreed. And it isn't as though they're trying to incorporate a proven QB - they're trying to incorporate a guy who has underachieved his entire career, is used to losing, and has a history of injuries. Not exactly a recipe for a Super Bowl run.
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What I think is happening is that Ted is working on ARodg's contract and views Taylor as 'ready enough' in consultation with McCarthy. $6 MM is a bunch for a LG. I disagree with you that 7 wins is 'worst case' for the Vikings. Remember that they play the 1st place schedule.
What I think is happening is that there were problems in the locker room. There is absolutely no way they would have simply cut him at the last minute and gotten nothing for him. TT would have been trying to deal him earlier if the long term plans didn't include him.
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What I think is happening is that there were problems in the locker room. There is absolutely no way they would have simply cut him at the last minute and gotten nothing for him. TT would have been trying to deal him earlier if the long term plans didn't include him.
Truth in that I'm sure. As McCarthy said, complicated.
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What I think is happening is that there were problems in the locker room. There is absolutely no way they would have simply cut him at the last minute and gotten nothing for him. TT would have been trying to deal him earlier if the long term plans didn't include him.
I'm guessing you are right.
Another factor that made it easier to do now is that this would have been his last year in GB no matter what. Ted has shown that guards are not at the top of his priority list - he's not going to re-sign a 31+ year old guard with a bad back to a big contract. Josh found out he was not in the long-term plan and may have started to become a distraction when GB was negotiating with other guys but didn't want to open negotiations with him.
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Exactly.
I have no idea where this idea that Cutler is a changed player came from. He's not changed at all. What has changed is that the players around him have gotten worse. So he might look better because the talent around him isn't as good, so compared to them he's great, but that doesn't mean he's actually gotten better.
He's still bad. He just has a coach who's on his second go around with him and understands that he needs to take the ball out of his hands as much as possible if he wants to win. Unfortunately for him, even doing that, he doesn't have the hands to put the ball in to carry his team to a lot of wins.
::)
The level of talent on a team also includes the defense and special teams.
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Was listening to Wilde on Homer's show last night and I thought a good point was made. They have no evidence that any of rumored locker room events occurred, but there definitely seems cause to believe something changed in the last couple of weeks. If Sitton wasn't in the long term plans AND getting cut was an option prior to camp, that concept would have been floated in media leaks over the summer. The Packers organization is a savvy organization, they know how to play the game.
So if we start with that assumption lets layer a few other facts:
-Thompson loves compensatory picks and Sitton(if he played well) would have netted a very high one when he signed somewhere else
-there is significant downside risk now with unproven options at LG
-They did nothing with camp to prepare a new LG to replace Sitton (either in preseason games or who played with the 1s in drills)
All of that points to something significant changing in the last week....not sure what, but I think this move speaks to more than just football performance.
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::)
The level of talent on a team also includes the defense and special teams.
Who said it didn't?
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Was listening to Wilde on Homer's show last night and I thought a good point was made. They have no evidence that any of rumored locker room events occurred, but there definitely seems cause to believe something changed in the last couple of weeks. If Sitton wasn't in the long term plans AND getting cut was an option prior to camp, that concept would have been floated in media leaks over the summer. The Packers organization is a savvy organization, they know how to play the game.
So if we start with that assumption lets layer a few other facts:
-Thompson loves compensatory picks and Sitton(if he played well) would have netted a very high one when he signed somewhere else
-there is significant downside risk now with unproven options at LG
-They did nothing with camp to prepare a new LG to replace Sitton (either in preseason games or who played with the 1s in drills)
All of that points to something significant changing in the last week....not sure what, but I think this move speaks to more than just football performance.
That is exactly right. TT is too smart to either not deal him earlier OR simply hold on to him and let him leave. SOMETHING changed, and it is something not directly football related.
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Yes, my intentions are to really hurt you with my scathing comments.
I'm not Cutler apologist. I never said he he was a great QB or that he didn't earn his sh*tty reputation. It was well-deserved. But it's simply not the case anymore so what's the issue with calling someone out on that? Your comments were lazy.
He also has a foundation for kids with diabetes and does a lot of under the radar charity work from what I understand. What a loser.
I will let you have the last word ... and also will be happy to let you have Jay Cutler. Thanks for the conversation.
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Was listening to Wilde on Homer's show last night and I thought a good point was made. They have no evidence that any of rumored locker room events occurred, but there definitely seems cause to believe something changed in the last couple of weeks. If Sitton wasn't in the long term plans AND getting cut was an option prior to camp, that concept would have been floated in media leaks over the summer. The Packers organization is a savvy organization, they know how to play the game.
So if we start with that assumption lets layer a few other facts:
-Thompson loves compensatory picks and Sitton(if he played well) would have netted a very high one when he signed somewhere else
-there is significant downside risk now with unproven options at LG
-They did nothing with camp to prepare a new LG to replace Sitton (either in preseason games or who played with the 1s in drills)
All of that points to something significant changing in the last week....not sure what, but I think this move speaks to more than just football performance.
Agreed. But it would seem counterproductive for Sitton to do anything but bust his butt in a contract year. As an example, Lang is in the same boat. I'm guessing the story will eventually come out.
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A co-worker came in saying he heard Wilde on the radio this AM telling a story about Sitton calling a team mate the N word after a practice altercation. He stated Clinton-Dix and someone else confronted Sitton but now deny the story ever happened. Wilde stated an 'insider' confirmed the incident to him as true.
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A co-worker came in saying he heard Wilde on the radio this AM telling a story about Sitton calling a team mate the N word after a practice altercation. He stated Clinton-Dix and someone else confronted Sitton but now deny the story ever happened. Wilde stated an 'insider' confirmed the incident to him as true.
Well if that's the case then good for Mac and Ted.
As a somewhat aside, Rodgers had to approve of this, right? I mean, he's been protecting Rodgers for his whole career.
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A co-worker came in saying he heard Wilde on the radio this AM telling a story about Sitton calling a team mate the N word after a practice altercation. He stated Clinton-Dix and someone else confronted Sitton but now deny the story ever happened. Wilde stated an 'insider' confirmed the incident to him as true.
I didn't hear Wilde this morning...last night he told that story but within the context of that's the story that's been reported via social media but it had not been confirmed by anyone. I'm curious if he was still qualifying it that way this morning or if he shifted to this is fact based on insiders.
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Well if that's the case then good for Mac and Ted.
As a somewhat aside, Rodgers had to approve of this, right? I mean, he's been protecting Rodgers for his whole career.
The other social media report was that Rodgers and Sitton weren't exactly tight. But yes, in principal Rodgers would have to ok with any plan that impacts the O-line.....and that's why this has to be non-football related.
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Interesting. If it's a one off deal and followed by an immediate heartfelt apology, everyone moves on. But if there's been any behavior pattern......
McCarthy did mention protecting the locker room. Maybe Sitton felt emboldened knowing this was his last year in GB.
If true, it's the right move. For a very long time black athletes weren't comfortable coming to the Packers. That's all different now and that comfort needs to be protected. We're all only green/gold.
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Coincidence the one player who didn't stand for the National Anthem got knocked out of the game with a concussion in the first quarter?
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Apparently concussion protocol is optional.
I'm also convinced Cam was concussed late in the second quarter, and that's partly why the second half was radically different for the Panthers offense.
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I understand 1 game doesn't a qb make, but that 7th round, 200something pick looked a lot better than many top draft choices. Someone was doing their homework and coaching
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Apparently concussion protocol is optional.
I'm also convinced Cam was concussed late in the second quarter, and that's partly why the second half was radically different for the Panthers offense.
The protocol is optional and apparently calling helmet to helmet hits on a QB are optional as well. Cam got rocked at least 4 times that I can remember, if not more. I'm betting the "emphasis" on the rule will be re-exerted come Sunday.
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The protocol is optional and apparently calling helmet to helmet hits on a QB are optional as well. Cam got rocked at least 4 times that I can remember, if not more. I'm betting the "emphasis" on the rule will be re-exerted come Sunday.
Well that is the actual rule, if the QB is viewed as trying to advance the ball as a runner, they lose all special protections (including helmet to helmet) of being a QB. It is up to the officials to determine whether the QB began the act of being a runner.
Cam, often switches between being a runner and passer, he is going to get more helmet to helmet hits because of this. If He and Carolina do not like it, they should not use him so much as a runner.
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I understand 1 game doesn't a qb make, but that 7th round, 200something pick looked a lot better than many top draft choices. Someone was doing their homework and coaching
Wait til u c my boi Sam Bradford!
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Well that is the actual rule, if the QB is viewed as trying to advance the ball as a runner, they lose all special protections (including helmet to helmet) of being a QB. It is up to the officials to determine whether the QB began the act of being a runner.
Cam, often switches between being a runner and passer, he is going to get more helmet to helmet hits because of this. If He and Carolina do not like it, they should not use him so much as a runner.
I understand that, the count of helmet to helmet hits I specified were in the pocket, there were at least another couple that were outside the pocket. One was the ole defender arm to the head move as well.
Additionally, it doesn't matter if he's a runner, the defender can't use the crown of their helment on someone else's helmet.
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I understand that, the count of helmet to helmet hits I specified were in the pocket, there were at least another couple that were outside the pocket. One was the ole defender arm to the head move as well.
Additionally, it doesn't matter if he's a runner, the defender can't use the crown of their helment on someone else's helmet.
The official blew it.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17500234/nfl-blame-officials-panthers-failing-protect-cam-newton
"But does anyone truly believe Steratore would've allowed pocket passers Tom Brady or, say, the now-retired Peyton Manning to take multiple shots to the head without penalizing the offending opponents? And on the one personal foul Steratore did call against Stewart, does anyone truly believe the ref would've called intentional grounding on Brady or Manning when it was so clear the approaching illegal hit inspired the throwaway?"
Good questions.
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But seriously, how can you miss this?
https://twitter.com/JoeGiglioSports/status/774244251702009856
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But seriously, how can you miss this?
https://twitter.com/JoeGiglioSports/status/774244251702009856
Just a straight up dirty play. Should have had a stop put to it much earlier in the game.
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But seriously, how can you miss this?
https://twitter.com/JoeGiglioSports/status/774244251702009856
That checks all the boxes: late, crown of the head, launching, targeting or whatever you want to call it.
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The NFL makes it so hard to be a fan, I'm a hypocrite because I still watch and consume, but consider me an unhappy customer.
There were two clear as day launches by Stewart and Marshall, both in front of the umpire and Steratore. Both guys should have been ejected. I don't care if it's Cam, Rodgers, Cutler, Jonathan Quinn...that can't happen without an ejection/fine/suspension.
It was borderline criminal what happened to Cam last night, I don't want to watch football to see a guy take repeated vicious shots to his head. And for the NFL to say concussion protocol was followed? Give. Me. A. Break.
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Last year, this was called roughing the passer. Total joke.
https://mobile.twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/774231502238265344
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But seriously, how can you miss this?
https://twitter.com/JoeGiglioSports/status/774244251702009856
That's the type of play that they use as file footage when discussing illegal, dirty head-to-head shots on QBs.
Last year, this was called roughing the passer. Total joke.
https://mobile.twitter.com/SharpFootball/status/774231502238265344
This looks like a spoof of what would be called roughing the passer.
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The NFL makes it so hard to be a fan, I'm a hypocrite because I still watch and consume, but consider me an unhappy customer.
There were two clear as day launches by Stewart and Marshall, both in front of the umpire and Steratore. Both guys should have been ejected. I don't care if it's Cam, Rodgers, Cutler, Jonathan Quinn...that can't happen without an ejection/fine/suspension.
It was borderline criminal what happened to Cam last night, I don't want to watch football to see a guy take repeated vicious shots to his head. And for the NFL to say concussion protocol was followed? Give. Me. A. Break.
http://deadspin.com/cam-newtons-night-was-hard-to-watch-1786426230
"By the most realistic reading, humans make mistakes, and the NFL has weighed the risk-benefit analysis of installing the infrastructure for a true, toothed concussion program and decided that occasionally letting things like this through the cracks is a fair price to pay when the alternative is overzealous caution to the point of losing viewership.
You could argue—I would—that this is shortsighted, that the decline of youth football and the rise in insurance premiums and the general ickiness felt by some amount of fans who like football but not quite enough to watch it knowing what we do about the greed of the league and the potential health effects on its players, that all of this is going to seriously impact the sport’s long-term popularity to a degree far outweighing the immediate value of finding out if Cam Newton could lead the Panthers into field goal range."
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This looks like a spoof of what would be called roughing the passer.
[/quote]
I couldn't get the sound working but lip reading the ref he clearly says "personal foul defense. perfectly executed tackle between the knees and waist."
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Wait til u c my boi Sam Bradford!
He just might be the best quarterback to take the field...with a clipboard in his hands and a baseball hat on his head
http://www.startribune.com/decision-on-vikings-starting-qb-is-yet-to-come/392670341/
As for the "rough-housing" the QB, Sunday and Monday's games are going to feel the pain. Hopefully the coaches told the players that the NFL will be watching very very closely
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The NFL should be ashamed as they swim through their Scrooge McDuck amount of profit.
http://i.imgur.com/Mn1z9Ld.mp4
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I'm disappointed with the loss, obviously. Even with the officials in general not being kind to my boys, the Panthers STILL could have won the game - right down to the last play. So I'm not going to blame the refs.
That being said, there obviously is a double-standard involving Cam. The Panthers have made this charge before, but it really started looking that way in 2014 and through last season, and now last night's game. Frightful.
I guess I don't really understand the NFL's concussion rules. Cam obviously was knocked dizzy by that last one in the closing minutes. I expected him to be taken out of the game and subjected to tests, and I would have been fine with that. It's just part of the game - or at least I thought it was. I watched the game in a sports bar and couldn't really hear the announcers, so I don't know what was being discussed on TV.
I thought it was amazing that Cam threw a couple of great passes after that blatantly dirty, intent-to-injure hit. Speaks to his toughness and ability.
I also think there's something wrong with doing off-setting penalties when one hurts nobody (intentional grounding) and the other is potentially season-ending (helmet-to-helmet launch). I'm pretty sure the ref adjudicated it the way it is written, but I say it's written wrong.
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BTW, Panthers today say Cam passed 4 different concussion tests.
Also, Cam took the high road after the game:
“It’s not my job to question the officials. I really like this officiating crew. It wasn’t something that I know they did intentionally. But it’s not fun getting hit in the head. We didn’t lose the game off that; I know that for a fact. We’ve just got to find ways to put more drives together.”
Team leader Thomas Davis wasn't having it, though:
“That’s nothing new. They didn’t do anything different that hasn’t happened all along. It’s just something that the league is going to have to police and they’re going to have to do a better job of and start treating him like the quarterback that he is.
“They look at his size. It’s kind of like the NBA used to allow guys to get away with that against Shaquille O’Neal because of his size. But when you dig deep down into it, they talk about player safety all the time and they need to protect that player as well.”
Greg Olsen was perplexed with the grounding call:
“I don’t know how that’s possible, to get an intentional grounding when you get personal fouled.”
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It just isn't possible for veteran referees to miss that many blatant cheap shots to the head.
This is the NFL - they need to seem as if they care simply for the sake of future lawsuits. But I think everyone knows better. Their history of ignoring the effects of concussions to players has been well documented.
Ominous signs for QBs in general. These were not missed calls because the refs didn't see them. This is the new NFL.
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Gah, you guys, are a bunch pansies, this is just the pu$$isfication of real men, playing a real sport.
The NFL is a private league, with their own rules. If these guys don't like, next MAN up!
What will I tell my grandkids one day when we are driving my used pickup truck and they ask when football used to be great, now they are forced to watch coed NFL touch football.
Best regards,
The Bondsman
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That checks all the boxes: late, crown of the head, launching, targeting or whatever you want to call it.
To be honest it does not check all the boxes. I'm not saying it wasn't dirty, though.
In my opinion it is late, but in real time it looked closer.
It is not the crown of the helmet. The crown is the top, not the top front.
edit. I saw a different angle and it does indeed look to be more of the crown, and not the front/side as it looked in that link.
Launching/targeting only protects defenseless players. Cam was not defenseless here, and he brought the ball down and was running on that play (so no QB protection rule). At the last minute the player broke free and he brought the ball back to throw it. This is a judgement call by the official and in this instance I agree on Cam having made an act to be a runner.
Now, in my opinion, the defender was trying to hurt Cam and was head hunting, I see why there is outrage especially because of some of the BS that is called roughing the passer.
But in slow motion it looks like it is technically not the crown and Cam had taken action to become a runner. Still looks terrible though.
The problem with the rules is there is too much for interpretation.
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Zimmer playing it coy. Hill or Bradford?
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Hill gets the start
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Thought this was a very fair and well written Cutler article
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-jay-cutler-impossible-task-haugh-spt-0911-20160910-column.html (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-jay-cutler-impossible-task-haugh-spt-0911-20160910-column.html)
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One series in, I'm a fan of Sitton already.
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Cutler sucks
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This is likely Chris Walsh's last NFL game.
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This is likely Chris Walsh's last NFL game.
Blair Walsh's too :)
At least he made the 50-yarder...
yuck.. the missed PAT just hurts. Hope we can pull this one out (nh)
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Thanks JayCee.
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Hill may start next week too.
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Jags playing to win. Pack playing simply not to make mistakes.
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When ya ain't got nothin', ya ain't nothin' ta lose, ai na?
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Bears may have good guards, but their tackles are terrible.
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Awful game for AP (31 yards), but that D got it done for Minnesota (nh)
Yes, the defending NFC North Champions are ready to repeat!
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Cutler sucks
Just figuring that one out?
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Just figuring that one out?
Sarcasm but Kevin White is actually god awful.
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I know they have guys injured/suspended, but the Colts have that look of a 4-12 team.
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They should have replaced both Grigson and Pagano last year. They have regressed significantly talent wise and I don't think Pagano is much of a coach.
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Awful game for AP (31 yards), but that D got it done for Minnesota (nh)
Yes, the defending NFC North Champions are ready to repeat!
Hill looked respectable. He overthrew a couple of wide open guys, but also made some very very good passes. The o-line kept the pocket in tact, giving Hill time. Also, some easy catches dropped and some really dumb penalties on offense. If the offense gets its poop in a group, they will give GB a very tough time next weekend. If Joe Walsh can get his kicking game together, that's a big bonus.
What say you JayDee?
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Hill looked respectable. He overthrew a couple of wide open guys, but also made some very very good passes. The o-line kept the pocket in tact, giving Hill time. Also, some easy catches dropped and some really dumb penalties on offense. If the offense gets its poop in a group, they will give GB a very tough time next weekend. If Joe Walsh can get his kicking game together, that's a big bonus.
Joe Walsh would have made that kick last January.
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For Detroit, it is all about the offensive line. If they keep Stafford on his feet, the Lions will be competitive. If the line plays like it did in the first half of last season, Detroit will struggle. But, the Lions being the Lions, if there is a way to lose, they will find it.
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Joe Walsh would have made that kick last January.
Bill Walsh too.
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I know they have guys injured/suspended, but the Colts have that look of a 4-12 team.
25% of the way there.
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25% of the way there.
Maybe not.
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25% of the way there.
Good call, bud
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Good call, bud
Thanks, pal.
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But, the Lions being the Lions, if there is a way to lose, they will find it.
Missed PAT, let Indy go right down the field on them with minimal resistance, and then not one, but TWO receivers lacked the situational awareness to get out of bounds during a two-minute drill, instead straining for a meaningless extra yard each and forcing Detroit to burn timeouts. But the Lions won. Blind squirrels and acorns.
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Awful game for AP (31 yards), but that D got it done for Minnesota (nh)
Yes, the defending NFC North Champions are ready to repeat!
Pa Leeze. You played the worst team in football. There won't be two returns for TDs next week. Seriously, the Titans best player is their mascot T-RAC.
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Pa Leeze. You played the worst team in football. There won't be two returns for TDs next week. Seriously, the Titans best player is their mascot T-RAC.
I'm just grateful the Vikes didn't play Jacksonville ::)
both Tenn and Jax are clearly in the bottom half of the league, both games were on the road, one team was 2.5 point favorites, one team was 3.5 point favorites.....don't try to play it as anything different.
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I'm just grateful the Vikes didn't play Jacksonville ::)
both Tenn and Jax are clearly in the bottom half of the league, both games were on the road, one team was 2.5 point favorites, one team was 3.5 point favorites.....don't try to play it as anything different.
I may be wrong but wasn't Jacksonville the trendy pick to be the most improved team this season?
And the Titans are the worst team in football by a LARGE margin
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I may be wrong but wasn't Jacksonville the trendy pick to be the most improved team this season?
And the Titans are the worst team in football by a LARGE margin
The Browns & Niners would like to speak with you.
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Sarcasm but Kevin White is actually god awful.
It was his first nfl game. He's going to need some time.
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I'm just grateful the Vikes didn't play Jacksonville ::)
both Tenn and Jax are clearly in the bottom half of the league, both games were on the road, one team was 2.5 point favorites, one team was 3.5 point favorites.....don't try to play it as anything different.
Actually, I think Jacksonville is decent this year. They could be top half of that terrible division. Playoffs? Way too early to tell. I do agree with the notion that Cleveland might be as bad as the Titans.
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It was his first nfl game. He's going to need some time.
Like Will Fuller needed time? ;)
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My God, the Rams are awful.
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My God, the Rams are awful.
I turned the game off, because of how bad they were.
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Steve Young is disgusted and angry that he's even at this game right now. Cancels out Berman's pure awfulness
Fanduel rich night though
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I'm hate watching this now. This is by far the worst professional football game I've ever seen...and I've seen plenty of crappy Bears games.
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I'm hate watching this now. This is by far the worst professional football game I've ever seen...and I've seen plenty of crappy Bears games.
Turned it back on for a split second to watch Donald go absolutely bat crap crazy. What a way to top off a terrible game.
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This was easily the best part of that dumpster fire.
http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/kevin-harlans-play-by-play-radio-call-of-the-mnf-idiot-1786562558?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow (http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/kevin-harlans-play-by-play-radio-call-of-the-mnf-idiot-1786562558?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow)
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Guy gained more yards than the entire Rams offense. Lots more effort as well.
Get him in camp, Jeff.
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I'll bet the low Angeles fans were just tickled to get their team back
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RG III down...anyone see Johnny beer bottle lately?
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This was easily the best part of that dumpster fire.
http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/kevin-harlans-play-by-play-radio-call-of-the-mnf-idiot-1786562558?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow (http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/kevin-harlans-play-by-play-radio-call-of-the-mnf-idiot-1786562558?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow)
That was awesome.
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The Ram/49er game might have been the worst football game I have ever witnessed. Sad thing for the Rams is their defense is actually pretty good but that offense is beyond bad. Goff must be really struggling to not be dressed on this team.
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If you put it into more context, that Rams performance may be the worst in NFL history.
-They had all offseason to prepare for the Niners
-Game 1 is as healthy as your team will be all year long
-Despite the outcome, the Niners are really bad
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This was easily the best part of that dumpster fire.
http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/kevin-harlans-play-by-play-radio-call-of-the-mnf-idiot-1786562558?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow (http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/kevin-harlans-play-by-play-radio-call-of-the-mnf-idiot-1786562558?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow)
"THE MAN IS DRUNK!!!"
Really that was cool.
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Bakhtiari getting paid.
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Bakhtiari getting paid.
Huh, don't call HaHa C-D a n-word and you get paid. Weird how that works.
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I know it seems like a lot for Bakhtiari, but I think it's both good and fair deal for him and the Pack.
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Huh, don't call HaHa C-D a n-word and you get paid. Weird how that works.
Wrong. Play LT well and get paid.
Ted knew 'opinionated' Sitton would be an immediate and serious problem.
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Wrong. Play LT well and get paid.
Ted knew 'opinionated' Sitton would be an immediate and serious problem.
Sitton would have been resigned.
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Sitton would have been resigned.
Not for what the Bears gave him.
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This was easily the best part of that dumpster fire.
http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/kevin-harlans-play-by-play-radio-call-of-the-mnf-idiot-1786562558?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow (http://screengrabber.deadspin.com/kevin-harlans-play-by-play-radio-call-of-the-mnf-idiot-1786562558?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow)
Great stuff.
Before he was nationally known, Harlan was the Timberwolves' first play-by-play man. Their first season, which was at the Metrodome, my seat on press row happened to be right next to him. He used to crack me up with his excitement and his genuine enthusiasm. He didn't even use a color commentator, nor did he need one. Not before or since have I seen an announcer with his energy.
For a national audience, he has toned things down some, but he still projects a genuine love for his craft. He acts as if he knows he is fortunate to have a job that millions want. I think he has become one of the 3-4 best announcers around, and it's nice to say, "I knew him back when."
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Sitton would have been resigned.
I'm guessing you're not a Packer fan.
Ted does not re-sign 30+ year old guys who have started to break down to multi-year deals. Especially guards.
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I'm guessing you're not a Packer fan.
Ted does not re-sign 30+ year old guys who have started to break down to multi-year deals. Especially guards.
+1
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I know it was kind of a tale of two halves for you guys but how did the Bears defense look on Sunday? Still playing pretty vanilla defense?
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I know it was kind of a tale of two halves for you guys but how did the Bears defense look on Sunday? Still playing pretty vanilla defense?
The middle of the defense is unquestionably better in the front 7. But, the unit lacks playmakers. Having McPhee on the PUP list is a big loss. Pass rush is still a question mark as Floyd is quite raw.
I thought the secondary held up decently, considering the inexperience. Fangio brought a number of different blitzes in the game, so not as vanilla as last year. How the secondary plays I think will determine how aggressive he gets, as I see pass rush being an issue all year.
Like last year, the d struggled to get 3rd down stops late in the game.
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So the Packers trade up to take a LT (Spriggs) and then extend their LT (Bakhtiari). Is the plan beyond this year to move Bulaga inside, let Lang go, and Spriggs to RT then? If so, where does that put Lindsley, just a backup C/G? If Taylor holds up at LG do they even give Tretter a look at LG with Lindsley at C?
I was thinking going into the season that the Packers would resign one of Lang or Sitton. Now I'm not exactly sure on that.
Edit: Forgot Lang started at LG. Could move Bulaga to RG, Spriggs to RT, resign Lang and move him back to LG, and Bakhtiari at LT. Tretter at C with Lindsley a backup G/C and Taylor a backup G. That's a pretty rock solid/deep line still.
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I think moving Bulaga inside is an option. I mean it all sounds good now, but let's see how it plays out.
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So the Packers trade up to take a LT (Spriggs) and then extend their LT (Bakhtiari). Is the plan beyond this year to move Bulaga inside, let Lang go, and Spriggs to RT then? If so, where does that put Lindsley, just a backup C/G? If Taylor holds up at LG do they even give Tretter a look at LG with Lindsley at C?
I was thinking going into the season that the Packers would resign one of Lang or Sitton. Now I'm not exactly sure on that.
Edit: Forgot Lang started at LG. Could move Bulaga to RG, Spriggs to RT, resign Lang and move him back to LG, and Bakhtiari at LT. Tretter at C with Lindsley a backup G/C and Taylor a backup G. That's a pretty rock solid/deep line still.
I still Lang and Tretter to be re-signed.
Tretter's deal will probably come 1st since he is the younger guy.
All three tackles are locked up for at least the next three years.
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I wasn't thrilled when the Jets signed Matt Forte, but after two games he looks like a great fit for this offense. Do you Bears fans think he's near the end of the line?
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I wasn't thrilled when the Jets signed Matt Forte, but after two games he looks like a great fit for this offense. Do you Bears fans think he's near the end of the line?
Meh, I'm more upset that I had Tyrod Taylor on my bench this week. Even if he does have a great season, it's not like he was the missing piece. He will start to decline soon, that's just how being a running back works, so not losing sleep over it.
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I wasn't thrilled when the Jets signed Matt Forte, but after two games he looks like a great fit for this offense. Do you Bears fans think he's near the end of the line?
I think he's got another year or two left in the tank. Forte takes great care of himself, and is a pro's pro.
If the Bears were in a different place as a team, they'd probably have given him a two year deal (they had/have plenty of cap space). I think they didn't want to commit to paying a soon to be 31 year old back, when overall they're trying to get younger/faster at skill spots. He can certainly still play at a high level, he was a victim of his age and being a RB.
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I would have preferred Forte to Starks, but my guess is the Jets paid more than the Packers would even consider.
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I would have preferred Forte to Starks, but my guess is the Jets paid more than the Packers would even consider.
Spot on. More money than Ted would want to spend. Only one ball.
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Who do the Vikings play this weekend?
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You know who's coming to town Real, should be a good one, want to bet lunch?
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Who do the Vikings play this weekend?
It's interesting. The JS writers are talking up the Vikings like they're the second coming of the great Pittsburgh Steelers.
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Who do the Vikings play this weekend?
Looking forward to seeing the new stadium. Looks like a really really nice place. At least they have that going for them
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Looking forward to seeing the new stadium. Looks like a really really nice place. At least they have that going for them
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It's interesting. The JS writers are talking up the Vikings like they're the second coming of the great Pittsburgh Steelers.
Zimmer's defense has traditionally troubled Green Bay.
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Zimmer's defense has traditionally troubled Green Bay.
Not really since he's taken over Minnesota, though. They are averaging nearly 28 points per game against Zimmer's Minnesota teams since he took over, and half of those games came without Jordy Nelson.
(No longer in response to you) The Packers are 10-2-1 against the Vikings since the start of the 2010 season. Some rivalry...
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How did the Bears' secondary look last Sunday? Thinking about starting the Bear defense against the Eagles and Wentz. How do some of you Bears fans think they will do tomorrow?
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Lions favored by 6 at home against the Titans. Levy is injured on defense for Detroit. This is the kind of game Detroit historically finds a way to lose. Won't have a chance to watch.
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You in town yet? How about you but RC & I dinner at Manny's?
Looking forward to the game, but I fear I'll be asleep by halftime
Manny's.....nummy! Sturgeon's buying?
We took a tour of the stadium this summer. Very impressive.
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Looking forward to seeing the new stadium. Looks like a really really nice place. At least they have that going for them
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Lions win in a rout. Their offense is humming with the Cooter running the offense. If anything their defense is a worry, but the Titans offense has struggled to start the year. 35-17 Lions. Beloit Memorial's own, Jim Caldwell, has an intriguing team this year. 9-7 imo.
That said, now the Titans will probably throw 40 on the lions.
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You know who's coming to town Real, should be a good one, want to bet lunch?
Dunks, I would buy you lunch regardless. That sounds good. You're on.
How sis doing?
I know our fellow scoopers are generous with their prayers when a member is in need. I won't go into details without Dunks' permission, but if any of you want to offer a prayer for Dunks' family, it would be appreciated.
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Eat BEFORE you go. They advertise all this great food on the stadium website...but I went for the opening event (AC Milan vs Chelsea), and many of the stands ran out of food before the game even started. People were literally walking up to each other asking if they knew of any stands that still had more than just drinks. Drinks, of course, could be found in abundance.
As for the stadium itself:
The seating, sight lines, etc are awesome. We had second level seats in the corner of the end zone, and had a perfect view of everything. As a bonus, we were facing the glass wall that looks toward downtown, so we had a great view of sunset behind the skyline. A+
The concourses are smaller than I'd expected for a new venue - they look really spacious, but the layout of the food and drink stands creates lines in really inconvenient places so movement is slow. B-
Access through security checkpoints was the worst part. There were only 4 checkpoints and people were funneled from really wide areas into very limited "lanes." Picture yourself coming away from one of the busiest toll booths on the Illinois tollway (where they funnel traffic from about 25 toll booths back into 3 lanes. Now imagine they just closed the two outside lanes so there's a single lane...and they put a TSA officer there to do body cavity searches on everyone in each car that goes through. If you can get yourself comfortable with that mental picture, you'll do just fine. D-
The security lines my still be a problem. Get there early.
I have to believe the food issue will be a non issue. This game is too big and in the national spotlight for them to risk effing this up. To highlight the food choices, many menus are created but Anrew Zimmern. He has been taking an active role with the food choices.
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Access through security checkpoints was the worst part. There were only 4 checkpoints and people were funneled from really wide areas into very limited "lanes." Picture yourself coming away from one of the busiest toll booths on the Illinois tollway (where they funnel traffic from about 25 toll booths back into 3 lanes. Now imagine they just closed the two outside lanes so there's a single lane...and they put a TSA officer there to do body cavity searches on everyone in each car that goes through. If you can get yourself comfortable with that mental picture, you'll do just fine. D-
In today's day and age I'll happily go through rigorous but lengthy security. Now hopefully they can still be rigorous but more efficient regarding time in the future as technology advances. That said, I like that they are erring on the side of security. Packer security was pretty lax.
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In today's day and age I'll happily go through rigorous but lengthy security. Now hopefully they can still be rigorous but more efficient regarding time in the future as technology advances. That said, I like that they are erring on the side of security. Packer security was pretty lax.
Generally, I have no issues with security checkpoints. The issue was with the incredibly small number for a stadium that holds over 64,000 fans.
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Lions win in a rout. Their offense is humming with the Cooter running the offense. If anything their defense is a worry, but the Titans offense has struggled to start the year. 35-17 Lions. Beloit Memorial's own, Jim Caldwell, has an intriguing team this year. 9-7 imo.
That said, now the Titans will probably throw 40 on the lions.
I'd like to agree, but this is the Lions
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You in town yet? How about you but RC & I dinner at Manny's?
Looking forward to the game, but I fear I'll be asleep by halftime
I meant on tv, but when things settle down a bit, I'd like to take a ride up and see a game
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Generally, I have no issues with security checkpoints. The issue was with the incredibly small number for a stadium that holds over 64,000 fans.
My problem with all stadiums is that it's faux security, kind of like at the airport. They'll keep you from bringing in a bottle of water, but can they keep somebody posing as a TV technician from bringing in a dirty bomb? How tight is the security on the caterers and hourly employees?
I went to Michigan Stadium less than a year after 9/11 and was amazed at how little security there was in a stadium that holds 100k+.
Frankly, I'm stunned that terrorists have targeted one of our sporting cathedrals yet.
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My problem with all stadiums is that it's faux security, kind of like at the airport. They'll keep you from bringing in a bottle of water, but can they keep somebody posing as a TV technician from bringing in a dirty bomb? How tight is the security on the caterers and hourly employees?
I went to Michigan Stadium less than a year after 9/11 and was amazed at how little security there was in a stadium that holds 100k+.
Frankly, I'm stunned that terrorists have targeted one of our sporting cathedrals yet.
Good point. At the Vikes stadium, I was carrying a small zipper pouch that I carry my EpiPens in. I walked toward the woman who was checking bags, and started to open it while saying "it's my EpiPens." She waved her hand at me and said "Oh, then I don't need to see it," and never looked. :-\
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Craziest security I ever had was when I went to a Colombian soccer game. Got wanded originally and then a full pat down right after that. They did that for everyone.
Going to a premier league game tomorrow so well see how that goes.
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Craziest security I ever had was when I went to a Colombian soccer game. Got wanded originally and then a full pat down right after that. They did that for everyone.
Going to a premier league game tomorrow so well see how that goes.
Which one?
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Craziest security I ever had was when I went to a Colombian soccer game. Got wanded originally and then a full pat down right after that. They did that for everyone.
Going to a premier league game tomorrow so well see how that goes.
Enjoy! Who ya seeing? Saw an Arsenal game once, but it wasn't in the Premier League-an exhibition against Boca Juniors.
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My problem with all stadiums is that it's faux security, kind of like at the airport. They'll keep you from bringing in a bottle of water, but can they keep somebody posing as a TV technician from bringing in a dirty bomb? How tight is the security on the caterers and hourly employees?
I went to Michigan Stadium less than a year after 9/11 and was amazed at how little security there was in a stadium that holds 100k+.
Frankly, I'm stunned that terrorists have targeted one of our sporting cathedrals yet.
What security isn't faux? TSA has time and again proven to be bogus
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My problem with all stadiums is that it's faux security, kind of like at the airport. They'll keep you from bringing in a bottle of water, but can they keep somebody posing as a TV technician from bringing in a dirty bomb? How tight is the security on the caterers and hourly employees?
I went to Michigan Stadium less than a year after 9/11 and was amazed at how little security there was in a stadium that holds 100k+.
Frankly, I'm stunned that terrorists have targeted one of our sporting cathedrals yet.
You really don't even need to get in the stadium to do significant damage, though the caught on camera terror aspect wouldn't be in play. They could blow a vest up in the ticket line, especially if Minnesota is funneling to only four checkpoints.
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I had a heart monitor in my chest for 3.5 years. I had a medical card saying I had a medical implant in the event that it set off a metal detector. Sometimes I would just go through the detectors like normal and it wouldn't go off. If it did I would show them the card and most of the time they just waved me through. Sometimes I would just tell them I had it and they would take me to the side and tell me to cover where it was and wand me. I always felt like if someone wanted to they could tie a small knife or something to their chest and say, "I have a medical implant" and be fine getting through most security.
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What security isn't faux? TSA has time and again proven to be bogus
If you read my comment again, I said exactly that.
These aren't pleasant things to discuss, but it's all true. These events are so vulnerable.
Then again, we're all more likely to drown in our bathtubs.
Seriously, there were more deaths by drowning in 2014 than were killed on 9/11.
(http://blogs.wsj.com/japanrealtime/2016/01/22/deaths-from-drowning-in-bathtubs-up-70-in-10-years-report/)
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What security isn't faux? TSA has time and again proven to be bogus
Security isn't that difficult if citizens willingly give up freedoms, allow profiling, etc. - that's a high price to pay, though. Most would say too high.
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I meant on tv, but when things settle down a bit, I'd like to take a ride up and see a game
Too bad you're not in town. Getting ready to rub down and inject a 13 pound brisket. Should be perfect around game time. Burnt ends too.
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Security isn't that difficult if citizens willingly give up freedoms, allow profiling, etc. - that's a high price to pay, though. Most would say too high.
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -Benjamin Franklin
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I didn't realize this nor heard anything about the reffing during the packers-Jaguars game, but apparently we/packers not only got away with the benefit of missed calls, but according to the comments, the packers always seem to benefit from missed calls??
Note the comment section. They even out a little bit, but news to me
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17576262/nfl-acknowledged-missed-calls-jacksonville-jaguars-week-1-loss-green-bay-packers
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Yeah. The comments section of online articles are a real accurate source of information.
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I didn't realize this nor heard anything about the reffing during the packers-Jaguars game, but apparently we/packers not only got away with the benefit of missed calls, but according to the comments, the packers always seem to benefit from missed calls??
Note the comment section. They even out a little bit, but news to me
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17576262/nfl-acknowledged-missed-calls-jacksonville-jaguars-week-1-loss-green-bay-packers
And how many calls that went the Jags way were there? 0? I highly doubt it, but maybe.
I have no proof of it at all, but I'd venture to guess that if you had 22 referees, each focusing on one individual player, you'd probably be able to throw a flag on every single play of every football game if you really wanted to.
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I have no proof of it at all, but I'd venture to guess that if you had 22 referees, each focusing on one individual player, you'd probably be able to throw a flag on every single play of every football game if you really wanted to.
This.
Look closely enough and you will probably see at least one of the offensive linemen holding on every single play. Officials only throw the flags on the ones that are so blatant my grandma (RIP) can see them. You could also probably make a case for pass interference on nearly every pass play. Add stuff like defensive holding, illegal contact and such, and the games would never end.
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Lions favored by 6 at home against the Titans. Levy is injured on defense for Detroit. This is the kind of game Detroit historically finds a way to lose. Won't have a chance to watch.
Ahem. No one ever went broke betting against the Lions
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SKOL Vikings. We inspired TN
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Too bad you're not in town. Getting ready to rub down and inject a 13 pound brisket. Should be perfect around game time. Burnt ends too.
NICE!! Now of course you know better chili-there is a smoking section ya know (
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Yeah. The comments section of online articles are a real accurate source of information.
Never said it was a source. I read them to get a feeling of the sentiment. It's not scientific of course, but it does give us an idea of which way the wind is blowing. just a sampling my man, just a sampling
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Rams are 1-1, avg 4.5 ppg.
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SKOL Vikings. We inspired TN
Just a pinch between your cheek and gum, eh?
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Absolutely zero security at the soccer match today. I walked straight to give my ticket, no metal detectors or wands or anything. My friend had a purse that nobody checked either. Really kind of refreshing living in a society where gun violence isn't an issue.
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You realize that's it's not just about gun violence right?
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I didn't realize this nor heard anything about the reffing during the packers-Jaguars game, but apparently we/packers not only got away with the benefit of missed calls, but according to the comments, the packers always seem to benefit from missed calls??
Note the comment section. They even out a little bit, but news to me
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17576262/nfl-acknowledged-missed-calls-jacksonville-jaguars-week-1-loss-green-bay-packers
Packers fans are typically the only people who are blind to the fact that the Packers tend to get calls in their favor, particularly when Favre was there but it's carried over with Rodgers, and it's even greater when they're at Lambeau.
Believe me. I grew up watching Michael Jordan. I know preferential calls ;)
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There are a ton of missed calls both ways in every football game at every level. I have a hard time believing that refs go out there and get all warm and fuzzy over the "fan owned" Green Bay Packers and give them all the 50/50 calls. I'd venture to guess home teams typically get the benefit of the doubt in most games in the NFL. BUT, I'm a blind Packers fan. So what do I know? The refs really do get warm and fuzzy over the Pack.
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As I said,
I'm content.
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There are a ton of missed calls both ways in every football game at every level. I have a hard time believing that refs go out there and get all warm and fuzzy over the "fan owned" Green Bay Packers and give them all the 50/50 calls. I'd venture to guess home teams typically get the benefit of the doubt in most games in the NFL. BUT, I'm a blind Packers fan. So what do I know? The refs really do get warm and fuzzy over the Pack.
Yep. That's exactly what I said ::)
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Yep. That's exactly what I said ::)
So what are you saying exactly? You have a concept that the Packer's get more favorable calls than other teams? Zero evidence, at best anecdotal......any "enemy" fanbase is likely to say that about another team.
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I am diehard Packer fan and do believe Favre and Rodgers do get benefit of doubt similar to Jordan. I was big Jordan fan and felt the same way regarding him. Very glad I am Packer fan because it does seem to lean our way more often than not.
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So what are you saying exactly? You have a concept that the Packer's get more favorable calls than other teams? Zero evidence, at best anecdotal......any "enemy" fanbase is likely to say that about another team.
I'm saying that the Packers tend to get favorable calls, particularly at home. Was it that confusing?
Of course, there's no hard data to prove this because it can't really be measured, but it's believed by many football fans, even those who aren't part of "an enemy fanbase." Sure, just because something is believed by the football world, that doesn't make it fact. It just means that the belief is out there. I don't know why it seems to be upsetting people.
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I'm saying that the Packers tend to get favorable calls, particularly at home. Was it that confusing?
Of course, there's no hard data to prove this because it can't really be measured, but it's believed by many football fans, even those who aren't part of "an enemy fanbase." Sure, just because something is believed by the football world, that doesn't make it fact. It just means that the belief is out there. I don't know why it seems to be upsetting people.
Not upset at all....just find it surprising that a human adult believes one team gets better calls than others "just cause" ;D
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I'm saying that the Packers tend to get favorable calls, particularly at home. Was it that confusing?
Of course, there's no hard data to prove this because it can't really be measured, but it's believed by many football fans, even those who aren't part of "an enemy fanbase." Sure, just because something is believed by the football world, that doesn't make it fact. It just means that the belief is out there. I don't know why it seems to be upsetting people.
I've literally never heard that until you just mentioned it. So you're telling me that if I run into some random Patriots fan he's going to be like, "Aww man, you guys always get so lucky with the refs!" I find it hard to believe, but hey, I'm a blind Packers fan so maybe!
In what way does Rodgers/did Favre/do the Packers get favorable calls? What types of calls do quarterbacks get?
What's funny is over the past 5 seasons the Packers have been penalized less than your beloved Bears just once.
My gosh I can't believe how the Bears, and specifically Jay Cutler, get away with everything!
:o
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Serious questions for those who think the Packers get more calls than their opponents:
Is this only a Favre/Rodgers Era phenomenon or does it date back to Majkowski, Wright, Dickey, Whitehurst, Hadl and Hunter years?
Was it more pronounced during the Lombardi/Starr years than it is even now?
How about before Lombardi?
I mean, what is the evolution of this preferential treatment and what are the reasons for it?
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My thought on the Favre/Rodgers era has been good for the Nfl in many ways. The Pack has been great television for both Packer fans and non fans. Over the past several years it seems like the Pack gets several defensive first downs every game and some seem favorable to me. This is coming from a Packer fan and I have commented many times over the years to my kids that we actually laugh when the flag is thrown downfield.
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My thought on the Favre/Rodgers era has been good for the Nfl in many ways. The Pack has been great television for both Packer fans and non fans. Over the past several years it seems like the Pack gets several defensive first downs every game and some seem favorable to me. This is coming from a Packer fan and I have commented many times over the years to my kids that we actually laugh when the flag is thrown downfield.
That can't be possible! No human adult would believe that! But...but...but look at the Packers' penalties compared to the Bears'!
Lighten up, guys. I don't know why you seem to think this is a bad thing and why you're so thin-skinned that you need to argue about it and refuse to believe there's any truth to it.
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That can't be possible! No human adult would believe that! But...but...but look at the Packers' penalties compared to the Bears'!
Lighten up, guys. I don't know why you seem to think this is a bad thing and why you're so thin-skinned that you need to argue about it and refuse to believe there's any truth to it.
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/B65mtE2TN1w/hqdefault.jpg)
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That can't be possible! No human adult would believe that! But...but...but look at the Packers' penalties compared to the Bears'!
Lighten up, guys. I don't know why you seem to think this is a bad thing and why you're so thin-skinned that you need to argue about it and refuse to believe there's any truth to it.
Again I don't think anyone's getting bent out of shape on this but you. You posited a theory, we disagreed and now you seem to be upset that we didn't blindly accept your original posit. Maybe you're right, maybe you aren't. I don't think there is a significant difference in calls between any teams certainly not anymore more than I think Jim Burr is actually biased against Marquette.
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That can't be possible! No human adult would believe that! But...but...but look at the Packers' penalties compared to the Bears'!
Lighten up, guys. I don't know why you seem to think this is a bad thing and why you're so thin-skinned that you need to argue about it and refuse to believe there's any truth to it.
...because you say it is, so anyone who questions it is thin skinned. Hilarious.
Don't answer the questions about your absurd claim that Green Bay gets away with things nobody else does and ignore the fact that the actual numbers disagree with your claim and just call people thin skinned. Classic case of "I can't tell you what a QB would be getting away with, he's not defending a receiver so not getting away with PI or defensive holding, not catching a ball so not getting away with offensive PI, not blocking so not getting away with holding, etc. Just, you know, it's Aaron Rodgers and he does all these crazy penalties but he's Rodgers so he does what he wants and I said so so if you don't believe it you have thin skin!"
You want to claim a team gets away with penalties more than any other team yet you want to ignore the number of penalties that teams get. Okay. I got it. ;D
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Again I don't think anyone's getting bent out of shape on this but you. You posited a theory, we disagreed and now you seem to be upset that we didn't blindly accept your original posit. Maybe you're right, maybe you aren't. I don't think there is a significant difference in calls between any teams certainly not anymore more than I think Jim Burr is actually biased against Marquette.
I'm not upset at all. I actually find it laughable how Packer fans respond to a simple "theory," as you called it, that their team tends to get the benefit of the doubt.
Speaking of thin-skinned fans...
...because you say it is, so anyone who questions it is thin skinned. Hilarious.
Don't answer the questions about your absurd claim that Green Bay gets away with things nobody else does and ignore the fact that the actual numbers disagree with your claim and just call people thin skinned. Classic case of "I can't tell you what a QB would be getting away with, he's not defending a receiver so not getting away with PI or defensive holding, not catching a ball so not getting away with offensive PI, not blocking so not getting away with holding, etc. Just, you know, it's Aaron Rodgers and he does all these crazy penalties but he's Rodgers so he does what he wants and I said so so if you don't believe it you have thin skin!"
You want to claim a team gets away with penalties more than any other team yet you want to ignore the number of penalties that teams get. Okay. I got it. ;D
When did I say anything about Aaron Rodgers committing penalties? Or penalties in general?
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I didn't see this absurd story posted here yet, forgive me if it was:
http://www.espn.com/espnw/voices/espnw-columnists/article/17565198/what-pro-football-hall-fame-thinking-darren-sharper-nomination
Darren Sharper a Hall of Fame nominee? Come on football, you can do better
Donovan McNabb. Jason Taylor. LaDainian Tomlinson. Hines Ward.
These distinguished former football stars are among the players who were announced Thursday as nominees for the Pro Football Hall of Fame's Class of 2017.
Also on the list of 94? Darren Sharper.
You know, the five-time Pro Bowl safety currently serving 18 years in prison after pleading guilty to drugging and raping multiple women in several states. Yes, that Darren Sharper is among those being considered for enshrinement in the sport's most hallowed of spaces.
While several cuts remain before the finalists are ultimately determined, and Sharper is unlikely to make it that far in the process, it still begs the obvious question: How did this happen?
To be considered for nomination, a player must be retired from the league for at least five years. And, as clearly evidenced by Sharper's inclusion, there is no character clause in the bylaws.
There are several players currently in the Hall with criminal records, including O.J. Simpson and Lawrence Taylor. The Hall neither removed Simpson's bust or on-field honors after he was convicted of armed robbery and kidnapping, nor after he was accused of the murders of his ex-wife Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend Ron Goldman. But in 2013, the Hall did remove a mere photo of former New England Patriots tight end Aaron Hernandez "in the spirit of good taste" after he was charged with first-degree murder.
However, the NFL has come under heavy scrutiny over the past few years regarding the league's treatment of women, most notably coming to a head after then-Baltimore Ravens running back Ray Rice was suspended just two games after brutally attacking his then-girlfriend (now-wife) in an elevator in 2014. The team ultimately released Rice, the league suspended him indefinitely, and a string of promises from NFL brass to do better quickly followed.
One might, perhaps foolishly, believe that in the wake of this, the league would make sure it did everything in its power to ensure that crimes involving violence toward women are always treated with the utmost importance. At the very least, one would assume the league would go out of its way to avoid another public relations nightmare.
Both the NFL and Hall of Fame claim they have no input in who is nominated or ultimately elected. "Any fan may nominate any player, coach or contributor who has been connected with pro football simply by writing to the Pro Football Hall of Fame," the Hall's website says. Of course, the 48-member selection committee decides who will ultimately appear on the ballot (based solely on the contributions they have made to the sport), but this open nomination conveniently takes the blame off of the league and the Hall. It could be anyone who nominated Sharper. Yet, is there no one who reviews this list -- the last version before winnowing it to 25 -- before releasing to the public?
It goes without saying, that someone at the very least checked the list to ensure eligibility, or just made sure there were no spelling errors. But at no point did anyone raise a red flag? At no point, did someone say, "We have a convicted serial rapist on this list?"
Because when seeing the name of someone who has committed such disgusting crimes on such an illustrious list, it should be called into question. And if not because it's the right thing to do, then because it devalues the other 93 names on the list.
Yes, Sharper had a good career over his 14 seasons in the league, but does that really overshadow the pain and suffering he inflicted on as many as 16 women? If you are unsure, please take a moment to review his crimes. One would have to be delusional to truly believe anyone could just brush over what he has done.
The College of William & Mary, his alma mater, couldn't overlook it. Despite having a storied career at the school, he was removed from its Athletics Hall of Fame in April 2015 -- almost immediately after he pleaded guilty.
A friend recently asked me how I could justify watching football as a feminist. I stumbled then in finding an adequate answer, as I have for the past several years. And now, when seeing something like this, it really makes me once again question my fandom. Even if Sharper's inclusion didn't violate any standards of the Hall of Fame, perhaps it's time to set new standards.
Perhaps it's time to make sure a SERIAL RAPIST, who even called his own actions "heinous" during sentencing, can't be considered for football's greatest honor.
And if not, perhaps it's time for the rest of us to realize this is a sport that really doesn't care about keeping us as fans.
Do better, football. Seriously.
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I didn't see this absurd story posted here yet, forgive me if it was:
http://www.espn.com/espnw/voices/espnw-columnists/article/17565198/what-pro-football-hall-fame-thinking-darren-sharper-nomination
Darren Sharper a Hall of Fame nominee? Come on football, you can do better
THAT is absurd. It's like they have an internal betting pool on the most insensitive thing they can do......."so a one game suspension for 20 domestic violence inquiries didn't do it, i know what if we put Sharper up for the Hall?"
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THAT is absurd. It's like they have an internal betting pool on the most insensitive thing they can do......."so a one game suspension for 20 domestic violence inquiries didn't do it, i know what if we put Sharper up for the Hall?"
"Best" part is they take the whole "we can't interfere, we don't judge based on character" position. Listen, this isn't a slippery slope here....the man raped women and was convicted of it, that's a cliff I think they should feel comfortable taking a stand on.
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I'm not upset at all. I actually find it laughable how Packer fans respond to a simple "theory," as you called it, that their team tends to get the benefit of the doubt.
Speaking of thin-skinned fans...
When did I say anything about Aaron Rodgers committing penalties? Or penalties in general?
(http://memesvault.com/wp-content/uploads/Laughing-Meme-Face-Female-14.png)
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I'm not upset at all. I actually find it laughable how Packer fans respond to a simple "theory," as you called it, that their team tends to get the benefit of the doubt.
Speaking of thin-skinned fans...
When did I say anything about Aaron Rodgers committing penalties? Or penalties in general?
So if you're not talking about the Packers getting away with penalties then what are they getting away with? This just gets more and more confusing lol.
Do the Packers get to deflate footballs?!
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So if you're not talking about the Packers getting away with penalties then what are they getting away with? This just gets more and more confusing lol.
Do the Packers get to deflate footballs?!
My perspective is that there are games where one team clearly gets the benefit of the doubt (peoples exhibit A = Broncos:Panthers game wk 1). Those games are not a rarity and happen +/- to every team. By having to (or getting to depending on your POV) watch more of certain teams you are going to be exposed to more games where they have this go in their favor - add in fan bias and you have a team that gets preferential treatment.
I haven't seen the Dolphins play more than 3 times in the last decade, and i don't give a rip about them, so i've never seen a game that they got the benefit. As a Vikes fan i've seen more than a few games where GB got favorable calls - some favorable only through purple shades most just the refs favoring GB.
Also - AP has torn meniscus. out 0 to 10 weeks
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I'm saying that the Packers tend to get favorable calls, particularly at home. Was it that confusing?
As a Packers fan, I agree with you.
I also know that you could replace "Packers" with every other team in the league, and the statement would still be true. It's one of the benefits of home games.
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Been impressed with Whitehair tonight, except for an errant shotgun snap, really impressed.
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INT & fumble by Cutler were both brutal, 100% both on him.
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The Bears STINK.
Injuries all over the place.
Seems relevant (from 2012): http://grantland.com/features/we-seem-keep-redefining-jay-cutler-every-four-quarters/
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Average QB. One WR. Bad line. No RB. No TE. No play-makers on either side of the ball. No pass rush. Bad secondary. Tons of injuries. I still think the coaching staff is pretty good but they have nothing to work with. Emery set the franchise back a decade.
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I've said it before on here, it's probably the most underachieving franchise in sports, in terms of how it's run, combined with results on the field. An accountant is still running the organization, they refuse to let an outsider run things. Forbes NFL franchise values just came out, Bears again are not in top 5. Normally you might not correlate franchise value to on field success, but no franchise epitomizes that link like the Bears do.
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Average QB. One WR. Bad line. No RB. No TE. No play-makers on either side of the ball. No pass rush. Bad secondary. Tons of injuries. I still think the coaching staff is pretty good but they have nothing to work with. Emery set the franchise back a decade.
If Long is playing hurt as rumored, then I wouldn't say it's a bad line as much as it is horrible LT, RT.
Bears pass rush is garbage. So many 3rd and 5+ where Wentz had all day.
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I've said it before on here, it's probably the most underachieving franchise in sports, in terms of how it's run, combined with results on the field. An accountant is still running the organization, they refuse to let an outsider run things. Forbes NFL franchise values just came out, Bears again are not in top 5. Normally you might not correlate franchise value to on field success, but no franchise epitomizes that link like the Bears do.
If only there was a Rocky McCaskey in the family...
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I'm saying that the Packers tend to get favorable calls, particularly at home. Was it that confusing?
Of course, there's no hard data to prove this because it can't really be measured, but it's believed by many football fans, even those who aren't part of "an enemy fanbase." Sure, just because something is believed by the football world, that doesn't make it fact. It just means that the belief is out there. I don't know why it seems to be upsetting people.
A few calls one way or the other is one thing but who else suffered a Fail Mary bad call?
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I've said it before on here, it's probably the most underachieving franchise in sports, in terms of how it's run, combined with results on the field. An accountant is still running the organization, they refuse to let an outsider run things. Forbes NFL franchise values just came out, Bears again are not in top 5. Normally you might not correlate franchise value to on field success, but no franchise epitomizes that link like the Bears do.
The old lady is now 93. Is there a viable succession plan? Looks quite messy.
Could be the end of the family's majority ownership and some hope for us fans.
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A few calls one way or the other is one thing but who else suffered a Fail Mary bad call?
Dez caught it.
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The old lady is now 93. Is there a viable succession plan? Looks quite messy.
Could be the end of the family's majority ownership and some hope for us fans.
She'll be 94 in January, she's still presumably in good health, but one has to figure in the next 6-8 years, father time may come calling.
It will be quite interesting what happens when she does pass. They have a very complex ownership structure in place right now, one that Halas set up before his death, that was intended to keep the team in the family while limiting tax exposure. Since her kids already have ownership stock, there would be no estate taxes in play here, but each child would only own 6.6% of stock upon Virginia's death. The problem for the family is their sole source of income is the Bears. NFL won't allow one of the kids to utilize debt to buy up/buy out other kid's shares.
What's kind of remarkable is how well the family gets along. I worked there for a season (2000), and had dealings with Brian and George, and they were nice people to me at least. That may all change once Virginia is gone, there certainly could be a power play among the kids, but the real issue is what happens with the kids shares once their deceased. Splitting 6.6% among each kid's kids gets further complicated.
My guess is the plan is for Patrick Ryan to obtain the requisite 10%/20% majority for lead ownership, with the McCaskey kids maintaining some portion. The best thing the family could do is sell outright, not owning Soldier Field hurts, but any new owner would either try to re-negotiate the Soldier Field contract with the city, or plan to build/move to a new stadium. If sold outright, I think the family would get $2.5 billion for them, if they owned the stadium, probably closer to $3 bil.
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Dez caught it.
Not according to the rules.
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She'll be 94 in January, she's still presumably in good health, but one has to figure in the next 6-8 years, father time may come calling.
It will be quite interesting what happens when she does pass. They have a very complex ownership structure in place right now, one that Halas set up before his death, that was intended to keep the team in the family while limiting tax exposure. Since her kids already have ownership stock, there would be no estate taxes in play here, but each child would only own 6.6% of stock upon Virginia's death. The problem for the family is their sole source of income is the Bears. NFL won't allow one of the kids to utilize debt to buy up/buy out other kid's shares.
What's kind of remarkable is how well the family gets along. I worked there for a season (2000), and had dealings with Brian and George, and they were nice people to me at least. That may all change once Virginia is gone, there certainly could be a power play among the kids, but the real issue is what happens with the kids shares once their deceased. Splitting 6.6% among each kid's kids gets further complicated.
My guess is the plan is for Patrick Ryan to obtain the requisite 10%/20% majority for lead ownership, with the McCaskey kids maintaining some portion. The best thing the family could do is sell outright, not owning Soldier Field hurts, but any new owner would either try to re-negotiate the Soldier Field contract with the city, or plan to build/move to a new stadium. If sold outright, I think the family would get $2.5 billion for them, if they owned the stadium, probably closer to $3 bil.
The kids won' t need an income the Bears are sold for $2.5B. Each kid at 6.6% gets $165M.
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I am a little surprised that there are 45 posts discussing security, food, and sight lines at US Bank stadium, but are there any posts about the game. Packers probably should have lost that game by 3 touchdowns.
C'mon Jay Bee, I expected more.
edit:
My bad, just noticed there was a game thread.
I will go back to thinking about how bad this season is going to be as a Bears fan.
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She'll be 94 in January, she's still presumably in good health, but one has to figure in the next 6-8 years, father time may come calling.
Hmmm ... maybe I can set her up with my 90-year-old father-in-law -- if she's interested in a younger man.
Then, she can kick the bucket and he can inherit the Bears.
Then, he can kick the bucket and my wife can inherit the Bears.
She'll name me President and GM (of course), and I'll show ya how to turn this chit around.
First move: Jay Cutler, Player-Coach.
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Hmmm ... maybe I can set her up with my 90-year-old father-in-law -- if she's interested in a younger man.
Then, she can kick the bucket and he can inherit the Bears.
Then, he can kick the bucket and my wife can inherit the Bears.
She'll name me President and GM (of course), and I'll show ya how to turn this chit around.
First move: Jay Cutler, Player-Coach.
He can finally get himself fired for a change!
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He can finally get himself fired for a change!
He got his last OC a head job. ;)
sorry, I could hardly type that without laughing.
I will be the first to admit, I like Cutler. But it was obvious last night after the fumble play something was up. Should have taken himself out right then if he thought throwing the ball would be a problem. I wondered if he was hurt when they ran 7 straight times. (Jordan Howard looked good.) I think his next three passes were: ground ball, ground ball, brutal interception.
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He got his last OC a head job. ;)
sorry, I could hardly type that without laughing.
I will be the first to admit, I like Cutler. But it was obvious last night after the fumble play something was up. Should have taken himself out right then if he thought throwing the ball would be a problem. I wondered if he was hurt when they ran 7 straight times. (Jordan Howard looked good.) I think his next three passes were: ground ball, ground ball, brutal interception.
He initially re-injured his thumb at Houston but then re-re-injured it on the sack/fumble. Once he skipped that 10-yarder to an open Zach Miller on 3rd down, they should have sat him down. By no means do I feel confident that Hoyer would have led the team to victory but he could at least get the ball down field. Then again, Fox won a playoff game with a QB who couldn't throw in Denver so who knows?
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There was a stretch of 31 straight plays in Sunday Night's game that the Packers used the exact same personnel on offense. Yikes.
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The kids won' t need an income the Bears are sold for $2.5B. Each kid at 6.6% gets $165M.
My point was that if Brian wanted to buy George's shares, he currently doesn't have $165 mil at his disposal to do so. No McCaskey child has that kind of individual wealth currently to buy another siblings shares.
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My point was that if Brian wanted to buy George's shares, he currently doesn't have $165 mil at his disposal to do so. No McCaskey child has that kind of individual wealth currently to buy another siblings shares.
Right I understand. Which basically means that a sale might be inevitable.
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My point was that if Brian wanted to buy George's shares, he currently doesn't have $165 mil at his disposal to do so. No McCaskey child has that kind of individual wealth currently to buy another siblings shares.
But if they sell the team, they'd each get $165M so even though they'd have no more income from the Bears, they wouldn't need one because they'd each have $165M.
Also, wouldn't it be feasible to think that they'd have it written into the sale that the McCaskey kids and/or grandkids could still have some role within the organization if they so choose? Charities, appearances, members of the board, what have you and then put a PR spin on it as still having Halas lineage on the payroll.
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He can finally get himself fired for a change!
Good for you.
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But if they sell the team, they'd each get $165M so even though they'd have no more income from the Bears, they wouldn't need one because they'd each have $165M.
Also, wouldn't it be feasible to think that they'd have it written into the sale that the McCaskey kids and/or grandkids could still have some role within the organization if they so choose? Charities, appearances, members of the board, what have you and then put a PR spin on it as still having Halas lineage on the payroll.
Right, the family will be very wealthy if/when they sell, which is ironic because they are not wealthy at all currently. When Mugs died, the family was in a rough spot when the executor of his will tried selling his stock to some minority Bulls owners, the family opted in on right of first refusal, and had to sell stock to Ryan & McKenna. They are probably the "poorest" owners in all of professional sports.
I'd imagine the family will retain some shares eventually, or George has some type of emeritus role or something. As the Irish Catholic McCaskey's have more kids/grandkids, their shares will get diluted.
2033 is the key year, when their lease is up at Soldier Field.
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Hmmm ... maybe I can set her up with my 90-year-old father-in-law -- if she's interested in a younger man.
Then, she can kick the bucket and he can inherit the Bears.
Then, he can kick the bucket and my wife can inherit the Bears.
She'll name me President and GM (of course), and I'll show ya how to turn this chit around.
First move: Jay Cutler, Player-Coach.
I heard she has gas
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I heard she has gas
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I heard someone saying that maybe 2 seasons ago(?) the Packers ran just under 50% of their plays with 3 WRs, 1 TE, and 1 RB. This year they are running that package on over 70% of their plays. The guy said that "this is what defensive coordinators dream of."
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I heard someone saying that maybe 2 seasons ago(?) the Packers ran just under 50% of their plays with 3 WRs, 1 TE, and 1 RB. This year they are running that package on over 70% of their plays. The guy said that "this is what defensive coordinators dream of."
I can't even remember the last time the offense ran 5 wide or went to a heavy package. The offense these days is basically advanced RPO (run-pass option). They line up in the 11, have a play scheme called, each scheme has a run option built in they can audible to or from, then there is a quick pass option if they stay in the run and finally all the receivers have route combinations they read out of their positions that the QB has to also read and hope they match up.
Problem is they are running the same receiving trees out of the same same positions with the same formations so the defenses can read it too.
Question is, are they getting this predictible because the personnel can't run anything more complicated or is McCarthy trying to be too cute by half?
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I can't even remember the last time the offense ran 5 wide or went to a heavy package. The offense these days is basically advanced RPO (run-pass option). They line up in the 11, have a play scheme called, each scheme has a run option built in they can audible to or from, then there is a quick pass option if they stay in the run and finally all the receivers have route combinations they read out of their positions that the QB has to also read and hope they match up.
Problem is they are running the same receiving trees out of the same same positions with the same formations so the defenses can read it too.
Question is, are they getting this predictible because the personnel can't run anything more complicated or is McCarthy trying to be too cute by half?
I think you covered a lot of the problem in your post.
Then, add the fact that Rodgers refuses to set in the pocket and use proper footwork on his throws and it is easy to see why it has been a long time since the QB who regularly put up 100+ ratings over the course of a season can't even do it in a single game anymore.
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Question is, are they getting this predictible because the personnel can't run anything more complicated or is McCarthy trying to be too cute by half?
I think they are trying to run uptempo more often which requires the same package to be on the field. And uptempo has worked at times.
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I think they are trying to run uptempo more often which requires the same package to be on the field. And uptempo has worked at times.
What's interesting is that when they go to the 4 min offense they seemingly have more success. I think McCarthy thinks they can run the 4 min offense slower and still have success which it clearly isn't.
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I think they are trying to run uptempo more often which requires the same package to be on the field. And uptempo has worked at times.
Considering they ranked 23rd in total offense last year and are 29th in offense so far this year, I would venture that it is not working very often.
Their offense is a train wreck right now. They are averaging about 50 yards a game less than juggernauts like Tennessee, Cleveland, Miami and the Eagles (rookie QB).
Plenty of blame to go around, but it starts with the coach and the QB.
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http://www.barstoolsports.com/chicago/svp-summed-up-this-bears-season-perfectly/
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http://www.barstoolsports.com/chicago/svp-summed-up-this-bears-season-perfectly/
And yet I will still stay up until 1:00 AM UK time to watch them Sunday night. Its just not fun, you want to talk about Cutlers lack of effort, how about the rest of the entire team?
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I think you covered a lot of the problem in your post.
Then, add the fact that Rodgers refuses to set in the pocket and use proper footwork on his throws and it is easy to see why it has been a long time since the QB who regularly put up 100+ ratings over the course of a season can't even do it in a single game anymore.
Hard to "set in pocket" when ya got over a thousand lbs of PED enhanced ATP firing on all cylinders trying to de-melon-ize you
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Wonder how the NFL and panthers have prepared for the protesters today.
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Wonder how the NFL and panthers have prepared for the protesters today.
Lots of po-lice pertekshun 'ey?
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Lots of po-lice pertekshun 'ey?
A couple of brief mentions on tv, but that's it.
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Wow, Susie Walsh just missed a PAT
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Lions defense still at the airport.
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Mac calling a great game. Pack rolling. Jordy looking healthy and Rodgers actually making some throws.
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The stadium in Charlotte is 25% filled, at best in the second half. TONS of people left (fled) apparently at halftime.
Must be a NASCAR rerun on a local Charlotte tv station that everyone went home watch. :(
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The stadium in Charlotte is 25% filled, at best in the second half. TONS of people left (fled) apparently at halftime.
Must be a NASCAR rerun on a local Charlotte tv station that everyone went home watch. :(
Looking like the 75% who left includes many Panther players....
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The stadium in Charlotte is 25% filled, at best in the second half. TONS of people left (fled) apparently at halftime.
Must be a NASCAR rerun on a local Charlotte tv station that everyone went home watch. :(
Race did start a hour ago
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Vikes D is no joke.
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Wow, Vikes Puttin' the wood to Newton. Six sacks. Still a close game.
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That pass to Theilen and his catch was terrific. D2 grad from Mankato State.
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SKOL Vikings, the CONSENSUS is back!!!
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Not a fan of the Pack second half game plan.
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Total BS. Announcers subtlety blaming the Panthers loss on shooting. Can't make this stuff up.
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Not a fan of the Pack second half game plan.
Me neither, coaching staff seems to have issues with play calling. Nearly gave this one away.
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Total BS. Announcers subtlety blaming the Panthers loss on shooting. Can't make this stuff up.
Was that after the Panther's jumped out to a 10 point lead?
I missed the game but that is one heck of a stat line for the D - SKOL
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Mac's the only thing that can keep the Packers down. Problem is, he often does.
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Mac's the and the Vike's D are only thing that can keep the Packers down. Problem is, he often does.
FIFY
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FIFY
If Mac called the Vikings game like he called the first half of today's game the Packers win by 2 touchdowns.
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The Bolts are the AFC's version of the Lions. They just know how to lose.
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Lately, the Packers seem to get their best playoff runs when they start the season slowly (2010, 2012, 2014). Lately, the Vikings seem to get their best playoff runs, well...never.
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If Mac called the Vikings game like he called the first half of today's game the Packers win by 2 touchdowns.
If the Lion's D had 1/3 of the talent (on field or making play calls) as the Vike's this game would've gone into OT.
Bonus response: 3-0 with a W vs. GB provides the platform for "woulda, shoulda, coulda" to any "if" post.
The only reason i'm antagonizing you on this is that vocal Pack fans fail to acknowledge that there is a pretty damn good team coming of age in the same division. Will it end horribly for us? yes (a Walsh miss is too obvious/nice for us. I'm thinking a Diggs' pre end zone celebration penalty for the go ahead TD in the NFC champ game would be apropos), but that doesn't mean GB is considered the best team in the division this year, next year.......or last year.
Times they are a changing.
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Oh how cute. A Vikings fan is feeling good about his team. Very precious.
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If the Lion's D had 1/3 of the talent (on field or making play calls) as the Vike's this game would've gone into OT.
Bonus response: 3-0 with a W vs. GB provides the platform for "woulda, shoulda, coulda" to any "if" post.
The only reason i'm antagonizing you on this is that vocal Pack fans fail to acknowledge that there is a pretty damn good team coming of age in the same division. Will it end horribly for us? yes (a Walsh miss is too obvious/nice for us. I'm thinking a Diggs' pre end zone celebration penalty for the go ahead TD in the NFC champ game would be apropos), but that doesn't mean GB is considered the best team in the division this year, next year.......or last year.
Times they are a changing.
Who said you aren't a good team? Lol. Sensitive much?
It took a horribly thrown ball and the worst performance of an Hall of Fame quarterback's career, combined with a brutally horrendous game plan, for your awesome, outstanding, exciting, young, new, coming of age team to get a home win by a field goal in the opening of your shiny new toy. Congratulations. You held serve at home.
Nothing is changing. If your awesome, outstanding, exciting, young, new, coming of age team actually wins something for a change then we can talk about the changing times. Until then, the Packers will continue to be the last NFC North team standing.
But damn, I really wish I could have that 2010 NFC North Title instead of the Super Bowl!
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Breathe. In, out.
It's only football.
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OKAY........we're a bit invested in our NFL team and i clearly underestimated the passion there.
Aside from poking y'all (clearly effective) my point is that perhaps we should look at the present product, and it's trajectory, not solely at history.
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Teams ebb and flow. (Except the Lions.) In the last six years, three teams have won the NFC North. Life goes on.
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How many Packer fans does it take to change a lightbulb?
3. One to change the bulb, and two to talk about How good the old one was.
Insert joke here about Vikings trophy case.
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Embarrassing, Bears
Thankful our Vikings keep the NFC North afloat
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How many Packer fans does it take to change a lightbulb?
3. One to change the bulb, and two to talk about How good the old one was.
Insert joke here about Vikings trophy case.
What do a wrecked car and a Vikings fan have in common?
Neither have a title.
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How many Packer fans does it take to change a lightbulb?
3. One to change the bulb, and two to talk about How good the old one was.
Insert joke here about Vikings trophy case.
They have a trophy case? ;)
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Terrell Pryor played wide receiver, quarterback, and safety today...
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Terrell Pryor played wide receiver, quarterback, and safety today...
Yay! His team is also 0-3
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I don't know about you guys, but man am I excited for the draft.
:-[
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Yay! His team is also 0-3
Not sure where I ever said they weren't? Apologies in advance if I did.
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Minnesota native here .. 3-0 start? Defense is good, offense is good enough?
Yeah, we've seen that movie before. We know how it ends.
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I love Al Michaels.
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Ryan Fitzpatrick: 20-44, 0 TD, 6 INTs. KC D 6 picks, 2 fumble recoveries, 2 touchdowns, 3 points allowed. Whoever had them in fantasy had a nice weekend.
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Ryan Fitzpatrick: 20-44, 0 TD, 6 INTs. KC D 6 picks, 2 fumble recoveries, 2 touchdowns, 3 points allowed. Whoever had them in fantasy had a nice weekend.
He's still better than Mark Sanchez. But it sure looked like he was paid off to throw that game yesterday. They dropped at least one more that could have been an INT.
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If Mac called the Vikings game like he called the first half of today's game the Packers win by 2 touchdowns.
Wade, as much as it's easy to say that we only lost by 3 points, the reality is that we were several lucky bounces away from losing by 21. This team is plenty good enough to beat MIN, but hypotheticals in that game lean more heavily in favor of a MIN blowout than a GB one.
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I don't know about you guys, but man am I excited for the draft.
:-[
It's a real bummer the draft isn't in Chicago this year.
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Wade, as much as it's easy to say that we only lost by 3 points, the reality is that we were several lucky bounces away from losing by 21. This team is plenty good enough to beat MIN, but hypotheticals in that game lean more heavily in favor of a MIN blowout than a GB one.
Exactly...and if not for a highly questionable 66-yard PI call yesterday, GB may well have lost to the Lions. And if the Bears had more than 2-3 NFL caliber players they could be undefeated ;)
You can do that type of thing all day.
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I don't think the play calling was too conservative in the second half. They had the ball once in the third quarter and was running it at will until a holding call negates a first down at the Lions 12 after a Rodgers scramble.
Then they tried to pass with four wides on a first down only to have #11 drop the ball.
Was it more conservative? Yes. Overly so? No.
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Exactly...and if not for a highly questionable 66-yard PI call yesterday, GB may well have lost to the Lions. And if the Bears had more than 2-3 NFL caliber players they could be undefeated ;)
You can do that type of thing all day.
What was questionable about the pass interference? Grab and turn then get the feet tangled. Lol. If there wasn't the definition of a pass interference on that play Davis catches that ball in stride.
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Wade, as much as it's easy to say that we only lost by 3 points, the reality is that we were several lucky bounces away from losing by 21. This team is plenty good enough to beat MIN, but hypotheticals in that game lean more heavily in favor of a MIN blowout than a GB one.
Yet if the gameplan was closer to what it was yesterday then Rodgers isn't running around like a chicken with his head cut off waiting for one of his down field receivers to get open and defensive linemen and linebackers aren't pinning their ears back to hit Rodgers all game. That's the point. It's not overly difficult to see that just trying to run a bunch of deep routes 1 on 1 with our receivers doesn't work. The game that Mac called against the Vikings was a complete joke. I've seen Mac call some horrendous games, and that was the worst by far.
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What was questionable about the pass interference? Grab and turn then get the feet tangled. Lol. If there wasn't the definition of a pass interference on that play Davis catches that ball in stride.
Oh wades, I've almost come to admire your complete, total and unabashed homerism.
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Oh wades, I've almost come to admire your complete, total and unabashed homerism.
You're kidding, right? I guess if grabbing someone's shoulder and turning him sideways while they're running down a pass isn't then that wasn't pass interference.
But wait. The refs get caught up in the mystique that is Lambeau Field and gave the Pack the call they needed. ;D Even the commentators get caught up in that crazy Lambeau mystique. Greg Jennings was onto something. Everyone who walks into that dang stadium gets brainwashed into thinking the Packers can do no wrong.
Let me guess, you don't think the Lions should've been penalized for Ty Montgomery grabbing the ball while standing out of bounds either.
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Oh wades, I've almost come to admire your complete, total and unabashed homerism.
By the way, as much as you have almost come to admire my "complete, total (redundant) and unbashed homerism), I have come to admire your ability to squirm your way out of anyone challenging your absurd claims.
"How do the Packers get away with more...well, uhh...whatever you think they're getting away with, since you say you're not even talking about penalties...than other teams?"
MM: YOU'RE A HOMER WITH THIN SKIN FOR EVEN QUESTIONING THIS IDEA!
"How is that not a pass interference?"
MM: YOU'RE A HOMER!
Not predictably, your response will be I'm a homer.
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Did someone call for a Homer?
(http://www.ituabsorbtech.com/teeup/images-teeup/celebrity/steve_true.png)
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Did someone call for a Homer?
(http://www.ituabsorbtech.com/teeup/images-teeup/celebrity/steve_true.png)
Home Team.
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Stafford, solid. Everyone else, including the coaching, less so.
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Very impressed with the Vikings' D, especially the front 7, in their takedown of my Panthers yesterday.
Even more impressed with Zimmer's coaching job.
First, he's without AP, his QB and other good players and keeps the team thinking positive and playing well. Then, in yesterday's game, the Panthers completely dominated the Vikings in the first half, but the Vikings only trailed by 2 at the break. Zimmer got them to breathe fire in the second half and their D overwhelmed a very good offense. They got after Cam big-time and amazingly held Kelvin Benjamin without a single catch.
The Panthers will be back, thanks in great part to playing in the NFC South, but I think the Vikings are the kind of team nobody wants to play. I'm not saying their reach the SB -- or even win their division -- I'm just saying they're no fun to play against.
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Very impressed with the Vikings' D, especially the front 7, in their takedown of my Panthers yesterday.
Even more impressed with Zimmer's coaching job.
First, he's without AP, his QB and other good players and keeps the team thinking positive and playing well. Then, in yesterday's game, the Panthers completely dominated the Vikings in the first half, but the Vikings only trailed by 2 at the break. Zimmer got them to breathe fire in the second half and their D overwhelmed a very good offense. They got after Cam big-time and amazingly held Kelvin Benjamin without a single catch.
The Panthers will be back, thanks in great part to playing in the NFC South, but I think the Vikings are the kind of team nobody wants to play. I'm not saying their reach the SB -- or even win their division -- I'm just saying they're no fun to play against.
If I'm remembering correctly, they didn't TARGET him until very late in the game. So two things here: it's probably dumb not to take a jump ball tactic with a guy that big, but also coverage (and pressure) looked phenomenal as well.
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Didn't feel like starting any new polls or anything, but fox, publicly isn't guaranteeing cutler his starting job back when he is given medical clearance. Come on mannnnn!! the Vegas odds people must be scrambling
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Didn't feel like starting any new polls or anything, but fox, publicly isn't guaranteeing cutler his starting job back when he is given medical clearance. Come on mannnnn!! the Vegas odds people must be scrambling
Probably be more of a threat if Chicago had actually drafted a QB one of the last two years.
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Sorry, posted in the wrong thread.
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Exactly...and if not for a highly questionable 66-yard PI call yesterday, GB may well have lost to the Lions. And if the Bears had more than 2-3 NFL caliber players they could be undefeated ;)
You can do that type of thing all day.
Hmm. Interesting. Apparently I'm not alone in believe that the call was questionable. In fact, the league even feels more strongly than that.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17669824/detroit-lions-cb-nevin-lawson-says-nfl-told-team-refs-erred-66-yard-penalty (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17669824/detroit-lions-cb-nevin-lawson-says-nfl-told-team-refs-erred-66-yard-penalty)
Also, in a separate article by Kevin Seifert...
Pass interference is a subjective call, so we can debate for eternity whether Lawson "significantly" hindered Davis' ability to make the catch, as is stipulated in the NFL rulebook. A strong argument could be made that their legs got tangled as Lawson turned to look for the ball, a seemingly incidental and legal event that often goes unpenalized.
...
Sunday, Lawson protested the call while speaking afterward to reporters. It's quite possible he would have been validated under review. A key part of the pass interference is whether the defender is playing the ball when contact occurs, and replay showed Lawson was looking over his shoulder toward the line of scrimmage when Davis fell.
I look forward to another handful of rants, wades.
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Hmm. Interesting. Apparently I'm not alone in believe that the call was questionable. In fact, the league even feels more strongly than that.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17669824/detroit-lions-cb-nevin-lawson-says-nfl-told-team-refs-erred-66-yard-penalty (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/17669824/detroit-lions-cb-nevin-lawson-says-nfl-told-team-refs-erred-66-yard-penalty)
Also, in a separate article by Kevin Seifert...
Pass interference is a subjective call, so we can debate for eternity whether Lawson "significantly" hindered Davis' ability to make the catch, as is stipulated in the NFL rulebook. A strong argument could be made that their legs got tangled as Lawson turned to look for the ball, a seemingly incidental and legal event that often goes unpenalized.
...
Sunday, Lawson protested the call while speaking afterward to reporters. It's quite possible he would have been validated under review. A key part of the pass interference is whether the defender is playing the ball when contact occurs, and replay showed Lawson was looking over his shoulder toward the line of scrimmage when Davis fell.
I look forward to another handful of rants, wades.
Lol. Took you until Thursday to find a single article written by a Michigan writer that said it was subjective and could be looked at differently. Congrats! Ignore the grabbing of his shoulder and turning him sideways that led to the tangling of feet and yes, their feet got tangled and that can be looked at as incidental contact. So ignore the pass interference part of the pass interference and the play isn't pass interference. We're definitely in agreement then. There is no doubt that the tangling of their feet wasn't pass interference. His problem is he grabbed Davis's shoulders and turned him sideways. That's pass interference 100% of the time. Nothing questionable about it. Listen to the call of the game. Live the commentators said, "Their feet just got tangled. I'm not sure about that call." When they showed the replay they said, "Oh yeah, clearly a PI." It was as clear as they come.
But...Lambeau...Packers...calls...getting away with non-penalties...mystique...Bear Down...
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Lol. Took you until Thursday to find a single article written by a Michigan writer that said it was subjective and could be looked at differently. Congrats! Ignore the grabbing of his shoulder and turning him sideways that led to the tangling of feet and yes, their feet got tangled and that can be looked at as incidental contact. So ignore the pass interference part of the pass interference and the play isn't pass interference. We're definitely in agreement then. There is no doubt that the tangling of their feet wasn't pass interference. His problem is he grabbed Davis's shoulders and turned him sideways. That's pass interference 100% of the time. Nothing questionable about it. Listen to the call of the game. Live the commentators said, "Their feet just got tangled. I'm not sure about that call." When they showed the replay they said, "Oh yeah, clearly a PI." It was as clear as they come.
But...Lambeau...Packers...calls...getting away with non-penalties...mystique...Bear Down...
Um...Do you have trouble reading with your green and gold glasses on? The NFL admitted the call was wrong.
Also, saying that it could be looked at differently is the same thing as saying the call was "questionable," which is what I did to set off your multiple, ridiculous, ignorant rants.
I'm out! Keep going though. I'm sure the board enjoys your nonsense. I look forward to browsing through your idiotic rants next week.
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The refs missed the call. I don't think it's uncommon to get that type of call wrong. When a receiver falls down with hand fighting like that, it goes his way a lot. I don't think it's any type of Packer bias.
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Um...Do you have trouble reading with your green and gold glasses on? The NFL admitted the call was wrong.
Also, saying that it could be looked at differently is the same thing as saying the call was "questionable," which is what I did to set off your multiple, ridiculous, ignorant rants.
I'm out! Keep going though. I'm sure the board enjoys your nonsense. I look forward to browsing through your idiotic rants next week.
The league calls individual players and tells them they made the wrong call? Never heard that before in my life.
But yup. My rants are ignorant and ridiculous. Because I question someone who says the Packers get away with...not penalties, but...well, I'm still waiting for that answer. Instead you just respond with "you're thin skinned for even questioning me saying that they get away with...things." Lol. It's awesome stuff. I'm definitely the one coming up with the idiotic things though. Those Packers surely get away with...non-penalty things! Green and gold glasses are the only thing that prevent someone from seeing that!
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Um...Do you have trouble reading with your green and gold glasses on? The NFL admitted the call was wrong.
Also, saying that it could be looked at differently is the same thing as saying the call was "questionable," which is what I did to set off your multiple, ridiculous, ignorant rants.
I'm out! Keep going though. I'm sure the board enjoys your nonsense. I look forward to browsing through your idiotic rants next week.
At risk of sounding biased, the article didn't say the NFL admitted they got it wrong. It said that the player who was flagged claimed that an unnamed coach said that the NFL admitted it was wrong.
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At risk of sounding biased, the article didn't say the NFL admitted they got it wrong. It said that the player who was flagged claimed that an unnamed coach said that the NFL admitted it was wrong.
Hey man! Keep your biased thin skinned-ness to yourself! You can't question MM for bringing up the fact that the Packers get away with way more than anybody else in the NFL! And he's not even talking penalties here! Quit it with your idiotic, ignorant, ridiculous rants! He's being the bigger man and stepping away from this one!
;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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Jim Bob Cooter is a very good O coordinator who puts Stafford in advantageous situations. Top 5 in pts per game and yards. If you want to see bad offensive coaching look at how terrible Stafford and the offense was with Lombardi as OC.
Now I don't know what the hell happened to their defense. That's got to be coaching and players to be that bad. While just two years ago they were elite on defense.
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The league calls individual players and tells them they made the wrong call? Never heard that before in my life.
But yup. My rants are ignorant and ridiculous. Because I question someone who says the Packers get away with...not penalties, but...well, I'm still waiting for that answer. Instead you just respond with "you're thin skinned for even questioning me saying that they get away with...things." Lol. It's awesome stuff. I'm definitely the one coming up with the idiotic things though. Those Packers surely get away with...non-penalty things! Green and gold glasses are the only thing that prevent someone from seeing that!
Where in the article, or anywhere else, did it say that the NFL called Lawson to tell him they got the call wrong? Yet again, that appears to be something you pulled out of thin air.
Each week the NFL sends out what are basically letters of apology to teams notifying them of calls that were missed or incorrect in their most recent game. Typically these letters are skimmed then tossed in the trash. It seems more likely that the Lions got a letter like this in regards to the PI call than it does Lawson or a coach made it up.
I wouldn't call out TAMU because he's a level-headed poster who raised a point that needed more clarification, as opposed to going on a rant filled with illogical inferences and dripping with irony as he angrily blusters over a simple opinion while claiming he's not overly sensitive.
The bottom line is that I, along with many other NFL fans, feel that the Packers tend to get calls made in their favor, particularly at home. You vehemently disagree with that, which is fine, but for some reason take great offense to that notion and seemingly can't even fathom that there's an iota of truth to it.
To each his own.
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Where in the article, or anywhere else, did it say that the NFL called Lawson to tell him they got the call wrong? Yet again, that appears to be something you pulled out of thin air.
Each week the NFL sends out what are basically letters of apology to teams notifying them of calls that were missed or incorrect in their most recent game. Typically these letters are skimmed then tossed in the trash. It seems more likely that the Lions got a letter like this in regards to the PI call than it does Lawson or a coach made it up.
I wouldn't call out TAMU because he's a level-headed poster who raised a point that needed more clarification, as opposed to going on a rant filled with illogical inferences and dripping with irony as he angrily blusters over a simple opinion while claiming he's not overly sensitive.
The bottom line is that I, along with many other NFL fans, feel that the Packers tend to get calls made in their favor, particularly at home. You vehemently disagree with that, which is fine, but for some reason take great offense to that notion and seemingly can't even fathom that there's an iota of truth to it.
To each his own.
That's not how it works at all. Before accusing someone of "pulling something out of thin air" you might want to touch up on the procedure. It was a good effort though.
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That's not how it works at all. Before accusing someone of "pulling something out of thin air" you might want to touch up on the procedure. It was a good effort though.
They used to send letters. It was even featured on Hard Knocks at one point. Enlighten us, how does the procedure work now?
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They used to send letters. It was even featured on Hard Knocks at one point. Enlighten us, how does the procedure work now?
NFL teams can file complaints to the competition committee after every game and the competition committee responses to those complaints, and the answers are not swept into the recycling bin or they wouldn't take the time to file the complaints. They're also not some super secret answers that nobody is allowed to talk about like the article claims. The NFL does not go through every play in every game and send a list of calls that went against a team each week to every team.
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NFL teams can file complaints to the competition committee after every game and the competition committee responses to those complaints, and the answers are not swept into the recycling bin or they wouldn't take the time to file the complaints. They're also not some super secret answers that nobody is allowed to talk about like the article claims. The NFL does not go through every play in every game and send a list of calls that went against a team each week to every team.
Actually, the NFL reviews every play from every game from each official's position in order to grade the officials. How and when pertinent information is shared with teams, I don't know but it gets to them somehow. I had been under the impression that the league sent letters. Perhaps that process has changed. The NFL does not comment about their communication with teams regarding officiating so I'm not sure. Maybe DISH knows, he worked for the Bears, IIRC.
Also, the article didn't claim that they were "super secret answers." Caldwell claimed that he wasn't allowed to talk about it, which isn't true.
I guess it'll just be one of life's great mysteries...
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Actually, the NFL reviews every play from every game from each official's position in order to grade the officials. How and when pertinent information is shared with teams, I don't know but it gets to them somehow. I had been under the impression that the league sent letters. Perhaps that process has changed. The NFL does not comment about their communication with teams regarding officiating so I'm not sure. Maybe DISH knows, he worked for the Bears, IIRC.
Also, the article didn't claim that they were "super secret answers." Caldwell claimed that he wasn't allowed to talk about it, which isn't true.
I guess it'll just be one of life's great mysteries...
Yes, they review every call with/for the referees. They do not send a laundry list of every play as to whether it was correct or incorrect to every team in the NFL. NFL teams are allowed to file complaints after every game to the competition committee. They are asked to file 10 or less, but teams (like the Jaguars, evidently) go ahead and file more than that sometimes. The NFL sends a letter in response to those complaints to the teams.
No, the article doesn't say that it was a super secret answer. But it does say that Jim Caldwell says he isn't allowed to talk about what he was told, which, as you said, is not true at all. So something here has to give. Either the NFL told him that this had to remain a super secret answer, or the answer never really came and this whole article is a joke.
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Yes, they review every call with/for the referees. They do not send a laundry list of every play as to whether it was correct or incorrect to every team in the NFL. NFL teams are allowed to file complaints after every game to the competition committee. They are asked to file 10 or less, but teams (like the Jaguars, evidently) go ahead and file more than that sometimes. The NFL sends a letter in response to those complaints to the teams.
No, the article doesn't say that it was a super secret answer. But it does say that Jim Caldwell says he isn't allowed to talk about what he was told, which, as you said, is not true at all. So something here has to give. Either the NFL told him that this had to remain a super secret answer, or the answer never really came and this whole article is a joke.
I never said that they send a "laundry list of every play." I should have been clearer on what I wrote though.
It's also possible that Caldwell simply didn't want to talk about that play again. To me, that seems more likely than your either/or scenario.
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Now I'm confused about what "I'm out" means?
You 2 should take this to PMs IMO.
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Didn't feel like starting any new polls or anything, but fox, publicly isn't guaranteeing cutler his starting job back when he is given medical clearance. Come on mannnnn!! the Vegas odds people must be scrambling
I think many chicagoans are quietly hoping the injury keeps him out for awhile. They were playing him mainly b/c of the money, but honestly, they would get more bang for their buck by NOT playing him...they would have a better shot at winning
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I think many chicagoans are quietly hoping the injury keeps him out for awhile. They were playing him mainly b/c of the money, but honestly, they would get more bang for their buck by NOT playing him...they would have a better shot at winning
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I think many chicagoans are quietly hoping the injury keeps him out for awhile. They were playing him mainly b/c of the money, but honestly, they would get more bang for their buck by NOT playing him...they would have a better shot at winning
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I think many chicagoans are quietly hoping the injury keeps him out for awhile. They were playing him mainly b/c of the money, but honestly, they would get more bang for their buck by NOT playing him...they would have a better shot at winning
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There's one clear player to me that the Bears need to bottom out for, and his name is Myles Garrett.
It's not even close.
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There's one clear player to me that the Bears need to bottom out for, and his name is Myles Garrett.
It's not even close.
Problem is, the next great team built around a pass rusher will be the first.
If the Bears think any of the top QBs (Kizer, Watson, Kaaya) have franchise potential, they have to take him, even if they believe Garrett is the better player ... which he very likely will be.
Good QB >>> Great DE.
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Problem is, the next great team built around a pass rusher will be the first.
If the Bears think any of the top QBs (Kizer, Watson, Kaaya) have franchise potential, they have to take him, even if they believe Garrett is the better player ... which he very likely will be.
Good QB >>> Great DE.
To be fair, Mario Williams has had a better career than Bush, Leinert and Young. But yes, you're absolutely right. Deshaun Watson, come on down.
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Problem is, the next great team built around a pass rusher will be the first.
If the Bears think any of the top QBs (Kizer, Watson, Kaaya) have franchise potential, they have to take him, even if they believe Garrett is the better player ... which he very likely will be.
Good QB >>> Great DE.
Von Miller disagrees with this.
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There's one clear player to me that the Bears need to bottom out for, and his name is Myles Garrett.
Gig 'Em
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Von Miller disagrees with this.
Maybe. He'd be wrong.
True fact:
Broncos record, with Miller in the lineup, in games started by someone other than Peyton Manning: 15-10
Broncos record, with Miller in the lineup, in games started by Peyton Manning: 38-12
Broncos record, without Miller in the lineup, in games started by Peyton Manning: 7-0
I won't argue that Manning wasn't terrible last year and the defense didn't carry that team. But the Broncos weren't a Super Bowl contender with Miller until Manning came along.
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To be fair, Mario Williams has had a better career than Bush, Leinert and Young. But yes, you're absolutely right. Deshaun Watson, come on down.
That's true. But it still doesn't matter.
You still have to take your chances if you think a QB has franchise potential. If you don't think a guy has franchise potential, then by all means take the best player available.
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Maybe. He'd be wrong.
True fact:
Broncos record, with Miller in the lineup, in games started by someone other than Peyton Manning: 15-10
Broncos record, with Miller in the lineup, in games started by Peyton Manning: 38-12
Broncos record, without Miller in the lineup, in games started by Peyton Manning: 7-0
I won't argue that Manning wasn't terrible last year and the defense didn't carry that team. But the Broncos weren't a Super Bowl contender with Miller until Manning came along.
I won't argue the record, but I don't agree it's that black/white. If you had to decide which player had a greater impact on the Broncos getting to and winning last year's SB, it was unquestionably Miller.
I'm not devaluing the QB position, but if the Bears are keeping Fox and Fangio, invested in ILB's like they did, I'm taking Garrett. Keep in mind, I love Garrett, I believe he's the next Miller/Reggie/Derrick Thomas. Guy is a prototype, with good bloodlines, solid work ethic, and keeps improving. I can't pass on him.
Now, if McDaniels became HC, maybe I'd change my mind, but I personally can not pass up Garrett, right or wrong.
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There's one clear player to me that the Bears need to bottom out for, and his name is Myles Garrett.
It's not even close.
I'm hoping Jacoby Brissett plays well for the Patriots and they trade Garoppolo to the Bears.
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Careful what you claim. You'll be looked at as an irrational, green and gold glasses wearing, thin skinned fool for saying things like that about the amazing professional Chicago athletes.
Well, us packer backers are more compassionate than many think...we all wish him a safe and speedy recovery and hope he's back on the field behind the center for their games for many years to come
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Well, us packer backers are more compassionate than many think...we all wish him a safe and speedy recovery and hope he's back on the field behind the center for their games for many years to come
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Bears v Lions= Paint drying
The Lions FG would be good from 70.
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I am shocked the Rams are 3-1.
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I am shocked the Rams are 3-1.
I suspect they are too.
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Bradford is surprisingly good so far.
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CONSENSUS
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The vikings are the best team in the NFC 1/4 through the season.
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Bradford is surprisingly good so far.
Yeah I have to admit that I have been completely wrong about that trade.
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It's still early though. He passed one road test at Charlotte. Let's see how he does with a few more road games under his belt.
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If you look at the Viking's schedule, it is extremely favorable....the only 2 tough games left for them are at Eagles(who saw that coming) in two weeks and at Packers at the end of the season. They should be favored in every other game on their schedule. Mind blown.
What will be interesting is that they are outperforming the natural trend on turnovers, at some point they are likely to return to the mean.
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If you look at the Viking's schedule, it is extremely favorable....the only 2 tough games left for them are at Eagles(who saw that coming) in two weeks and at Packers at the end of the season. They should be favored in every other game on their schedule. Mind blown.
If you made this statement before week one it would've been met with a ton of scrutiny. But....you're correct.
Aside from the Eagles being much better than expected the Panthers, Cardinals, and (maybe) Texans are all teams that aren't as fearsome 4 weeks into the season as they looked at the end of last year.
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Odell being the victim of referees unfairly targeting him. Packers getting all calls, especially in Lambeau. This weekend should be fun to see what happens. Does Odell get ejected before the game even starts? Maybe the NFL doesn't allow him inside the stadium this weekend? That'd be nice, as him against Randall will be ugly. Then again, the refs will make it work for the home team in Lambeau!
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Odell being the victim of referees unfairly targeting him. Packers getting all calls, especially in Lambeau. This weekend should be fun to see what happens. Does Odell get ejected before the game even starts? Maybe the NFL doesn't allow him inside the stadium this weekend? That'd be nice, as him against Randall will be ugly. Then again, the refs will make it work for the home team in Lambeau!
You just won't let this go, will you?
Please, show me where I said that the Packers "get all the calls." Don't show me where you inferred that I said that. Show me where that statement was made.
It's an either/or proposal. Either provide the exact quote or admit that it was never said.
Once you admit that it was never said, we can drop this whole topic. You can believe what you want to believe and I can believe what I believe.
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You just won't let this go, will you?
Please, show me where I said that the Packers "get all the calls." Don't show me where you inferred that I said that. Show me where that statement was made.
It's an either/or proposal. Either provide the exact quote or admit that it was never said.
Once you admit that it was never said, we can drop this whole topic. You can believe what you want to believe and I can believe what I believe.
Okay my fault. I will edit.
Odell being the victim of referees unfairly targeting him. Packers getting the benefit of the calls and getting away with "things," especially in Lambeau. This weekend should be fun to see what happens. Does Odell get ejected before the game even starts? Maybe the NFL doesn't allow him inside the stadium this weekend? That'd be nice, as him against Randall will be ugly. Then again, the refs will make it work for the home team in Lambeau!
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Kevin White back on IR. Gonna be that guy and say called it over a year ago when I said he was a terrible draft pick.
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Kevin White back on IR. Gonna be that guy and say called it over a year ago when I said he was a terrible draft pick.
Calling any Bears first round draft pick terrible isn't really going out on a limb though with their recent history.
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Odell is pushing his "play" to the limits and forcing the refs to make a call. Next up, he hires al sharpton to be his new agent and they'll fire off the race card faster than you can say BLM and all hell breaks loose. You know the story-2nd verse, same as the 1st...Odell is just a passionate guy who leaves everything out there on the field...and at home...and in the john...
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Calling any Bears first round draft pick terrible isn't really going out on a limb though with their recent history.
Recent Draft Picks
Leonard Floyd: 0.5 sacks thru 4 games
Kevin White: 19 receptions in 4 games over his first 2 seasons - on IR
Kyle Fuller: Solid rookie season, step back last season, currently on IR
Kyle Long: stud...but often overlooked is that he could have been taken in the 2nd Round - 5 other Pro Bowlers take in the next 11 picks. Reaching too far for a pick, even when it works out, is never a good idea.
Shea McClellin - dud
Gabe Carimi - last 2 seasons in Chicago
It's not tough to figure out why the current state of the team is such a mess.
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Recent Draft Picks
Leonard Floyd: 0.5 sacks thru 4 games
Kevin White: 19 receptions in 4 games over his first 2 seasons - on IR
Kyle Fuller: Solid rookie season, step back last season, currently on IR
Kyle Long: stud...but often overlooked is that he could have been taken in the 2nd Round - 5 other Pro Bowlers take in the next 11 picks. Reaching too far for a pick, even when it works out, is never a good idea.
Shea McClellin - dud
Gabe Carimi - last 2 seasons in Chicago
It's not tough to figure out why the current state of the team is such a mess.
I just feel bad for you guys.
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Recent Draft Picks
Leonard Floyd: 0.5 sacks thru 4 games
Kevin White: 19 receptions in 4 games over his first 2 seasons - on IR
Kyle Fuller: Solid rookie season, step back last season, currently on IR
Kyle Long: stud...but often overlooked is that he could have been taken in the 2nd Round - 5 other Pro Bowlers take in the next 11 picks. Reaching too far for a pick, even when it works out, is never a good idea.
Shea McClellin - dud
Gabe Carimi - last 2 seasons in Chicago
It's not tough to figure out why the current state of the team is such a mess.
Thought Carimi might have worked out, unfortunate.
Hated the McClellin pick as we were in a 4-3 when he was taken.
Fuller could still turn out okay, pending injuries
White was a reach, IMO. Injuries are obviously a set-back. Hopefully can still bring value. I don't know what his injury status was in college.
Floyd was a huge reach. Definitely more a "potential" pick than anything.
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Thought Carimi might have worked out, unfortunate.
Hated the McClellin pick as we were in a 4-3 when he was taken.
Fuller could still turn out okay, pending injuries
White was a reach, IMO. Injuries are obviously a set-back. Hopefully can still bring value. I don't know what his injury status was in college.
Floyd was a huge reach. Definitely more a "potential" pick than anything.
Pretty much agree.
Wasn't a fan of the Kevin White pick. The team had too many needs to take a project that high. At WVU, he never really ran routes. He'd basically go deep or they'd throw him a screen. That's it. NFL offenses are based so much on reads and timing, hard to imagine using a top 10 pick on a guy who had really never had to deal with either.
Floyd is a pass rusher in the body of a WR.
Both guys would have been worth the risk if the Bears were a perennial playoff team and/or had a lot of depth at their positions, but for a rebuilding team to go for a project in the 1st Round in back to back years, I'm just not a fan of that strategy.
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Odell is pushing his "play" to the limits and forcing the refs to make a call. Next up, he hires al sharpton to be his new agent and they'll fire off the race card faster than you can say BLM and all hell breaks loose. You know the story-2nd verse, same as the 1st...Odell is just a passionate guy who leaves everything out there on the field...and at home...and in the john...
(http://www.hellotofit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/what-the-what.gif)
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(http://www.hellotofit.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/what-the-what.gif)
i so wish the 'ignore' feature would also block when people quote those ignored - i wouldn't have been exposed to this or that other gem. so far this AM we have RS equating the CK anthem protest to a nazi salute and a blatantly racist post about OBJ.
man i hope no recruits (or perspective students) ever come to this board and it looks like it's time to stay away from the Superbar.
(OBJ is a head case btw)
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Skol Vikings, we are the best!!
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Vike's D on a roll again. Up 24 zip. Just ran a punt back.
Most amazing, Fred Walsh hasn't missed yet.
Tanqueray Tommie blew the horn to start game. He blew only a .017.
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Skol Vikings, we are the best!!
Playing really well, no doubt.
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Game hasn't started and Colinsworth sucks
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Some dog-lady is singing the intro. Ugggggllllyyyyy!!!
Go Giants!
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Some dog-lady is singing the intro. Ugggggllllyyyyy!!!
Go Giants!
Who is she?
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That was an awesome play design. The Giants somehow defended it well, but Jordy is pretty insane.
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Eli looking old. Missing throws. Like the Viks game on Monday.
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Apparently the (I believe) left tackle for the Giants started yelling at, and then shoving, a reporter in the locker room after the game last night.
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Apparently the (I believe) left tackle for the Giants started yelling at, and then shoving, a reporter in the locker room after the game last night.
Not saying that Flowers handled it well at all, but when an angry 300+ pound man tells you to get out of his face and you don't listen, you're lucky if it ends in only a shove.
http://deadspin.com/report-giants-ot-ereck-flowers-shoved-espn-reporter-1787613994 (http://deadspin.com/report-giants-ot-ereck-flowers-shoved-espn-reporter-1787613994)
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Not saying that Flowers handled it well at all, but when an angry 300+ pound man tells you to get out of his face and you don't listen, you're lucky if it ends in only a shove.
http://deadspin.com/report-giants-ot-ereck-flowers-shoved-espn-reporter-1787613994 (http://deadspin.com/report-giants-ot-ereck-flowers-shoved-espn-reporter-1787613994)
Ah, so the report was asking for it.
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Vike's D on a roll again. Up 24 zip. Just ran a punt back.
Most amazing, Fred Walsh hasn't missed yet.
Tanqueray Tommie blew the horn to start game. He blew only a .017.
As a young Viking fan, I think I remember there were years he had more DWIs than touchdowns.
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Apparently the (I believe) left tackle for the Giants started yelling at, and then shoving, a reporter in the locker room after the game last night.
Was the only person he successfully blocked all night.
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Ah, so the report was asking for it.
Yep, that's exactly what I said ::)
Flowers and this reporter clearly have a history. Flowers played an awful game, was in no mood to talk to that reporter and asked him several times to leave. The report should have left. Period.
Was it smart for Flowers to shove the reporter? Absolutely not. Was it smart for the reporter to stay there despite being told several times to leave? Absolutely not. Lack of respect shown by both parties.
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Yep, that's exactly what I said ::)
Flowers and this reporter clearly have a history. Flowers played an awful game, was in no mood to talk to that reporter and asked him several times to leave. The report should have left. Period.
Was it smart for Flowers to shove the reporter? Absolutely not. Was it smart for the reporter to stay there despite being told several times to leave? Absolutely not. Lack of respect shown by both parties.
Completely disagree. The reporter has a job and even if he was antagonistic (all accounts say he wasn't) there is no justification for a physical confrontation of any kind. I don't care if the reporter put a line at the end of everyone of his articles that said "Eric Flowers is a terrible human being who sucks at his job" getting physical with him is unacceptable.
If you put any onus on the reporter to not be near the player, that then invites players to be able to intimidate and bully reporters from asking questions and engaging the report.
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Was the only person he successfully blocked all night.
Zing! But true.
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Completely disagree. The reporter has a job and even if he was antagonistic (all accounts say he wasn't) there is no justification for a physical confrontation of any kind. I don't care if the reporter put a line at the end of everyone of his articles that said "Eric Flowers is a terrible human being who sucks at his job" getting physical with him is unacceptable.
If you put any onus on the reporter to not be near the player, that then invites players to be able to intimidate and bully reporters from asking questions and engaging the report.
It works both ways. If you put no onus on the reporter then that invites reporters to ignore a potential interviewees requests to be left alone. We agree that it wasn't OK for Flowers to shove the reporter but why do you think it was OK for the reporter to keep attempting to interview a person who had repeatedly asked him to leave?
What Flowers did was worse, but the reporter bears some responsibility too.
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It works both ways. If you put no onus on the reporter then that invites reporters to ignore a potential interviewees requests to be left alone. We agree that it wasn't OK for Flowers to shove the reporter but why do you think it was OK for the reporter to keep attempting to interview a person who had repeatedly asked him to leave?
What Flowers did was worse, but the reporter bears some responsibility too.
Why can't the interviewer try and ask questions continuously? If he is over the top, eventually people will just stop talking to him and he can't do his job then. Maybe it's not a smart way to conduct his job(if he pissed everyone off) but that has nothing to do with whether he is ethically or morally obligated to not continue to try to interview Flowers. He's in the locker room during media availability and had a practical reason to want to interview Flowers, zero reason for him not to continue to try get an interview.
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i so wish the 'ignore' feature would also block when people quote those ignored - i wouldn't have been exposed to this or that other gem. so far this AM we have RS equating the CK anthem protest to a nazi salute and a blatantly racist post about OBJ.
man i hope no recruits (or perspective students) ever come to this board and it looks like it's time to stay away from the Superbar.
(OBJ is a head case btw)
i "so wish"...blahblahblah...there's just no place that's safe anymore, 'ey? i just love when someone has to announce that they have so & so on ignore. doncha just "so wish" there was a double ignore button? :P
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It works both ways. If you put no onus on the reporter then that invites reporters to ignore a potential interviewees requests to be left alone. We agree that it wasn't OK for Flowers to shove the reporter but why do you think it was OK for the reporter to keep attempting to interview a person who had repeatedly asked him to leave?
What Flowers did was worse, but the reporter bears some responsibility too.
Classic victim blaming.
The reporter shares zero responsibility here. By all accounts he wasn't antagonizing Flowers, asking rude questions or being impolite in any way. He wasn't even asking questions, just standing nearby. He simply was doing what he's paid to do, and what the NFL explicitly allows him to do, which is to be in the locker room to hear from players after a game .... even players in a bad mood. Flowers doesn't get to arbitrarily revoke that right, nor does he get to be physical with people who won't "get the f**k out of his face, bro."
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Classic victim blaming.
The reporter shares zero responsibility here. By all accounts he wasn't antagonizing Flowers, asking rude questions or being impolite in any way. He wasn't even asking questions, just standing nearby. He simply was doing what he's paid to do, and what the NFL explicitly allows him to do, which is to be in the locker room to hear from players after a game .... even players in a bad mood. Flowers doesn't get to arbitrarily revoke that right, nor does he get to be physical with people who won't "get the f**k out of his face, bro."
You're dead wrong. If the reporter walks away when Flowers asked him to leave the first time...or second...or third...or fourth, then this doesn't happen. Does that mean Flowers was right to make physical contact with him? As I've stated several times, no. Flowers handled it poorly and made the situation worse than it needed to be. The reporter did too.
Also, Flowers most definitely does get to decide who he does and does not speak to after a game. If he doesn't want to talk to anyone, he can do that. He'll pay a fine to the NFL but that's his choice. He was willing to talk to other reporters but, for reasons unknown to us, he didn't want to speak with this particular one. The reporter should have respected that. In the end, I do commend the reporter for not making this into a bigger deal than it needed to be. He probably knows that he handled it poorly and it's obvious that Flowers handled it even worse.
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You're dead wrong. If the reporter walks away when Flowers asked him to leave the first time...or second...or third...or fourth, then this doesn't happen. Does that mean Flowers was right to make physical contact with him? As I've stated several times, no. Flowers handled it poorly and made the situation worse than it needed to be. The reporter did too.
Also, Flowers most definitely does get to decide who he does and does not speak to after a game. If he doesn't want to talk to anyone, he can do that. He'll pay a fine to the NFL but that's his choice. He was willing to talk to other reporters but, for reasons unknown to us, he didn't want to speak with this particular one. The reporter should have respected that. In the end, I do commend the reporter for not making this into a bigger deal than it needed to be. He probably knows that he handled it poorly and it's obvious that Flowers handled it even worse.
If she hadn't gotten so drunk, this wouldn't have happened......
The scale of significance is different obviously, but you are victim shaming nonetheless. And keep in mind the reporter wasn't even talking to Flowers, just standing there. Does that mean Flowers has the right to not only not talk to a person but has the right to have people not be able to hear him?
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You're dead wrong. If the reporter walks away when Flowers asked him to leave the first time...or second...or third...or fourth, then this doesn't happen. Does that mean Flowers was right to make physical contact with him? As I've stated several times, no. Flowers handled it poorly and made the situation worse than it needed to be. The reporter did too.
Also, Flowers most definitely does get to decide who he does and does not speak to after a game. If he doesn't want to talk to anyone, he can do that. He'll pay a fine to the NFL but that's his choice. He was willing to talk to other reporters but, for reasons unknown to us, he didn't want to speak with this particular one. The reporter should have respected that. In the end, I do commend the reporter for not making this into a bigger deal than it needed to be. He probably knows that he handled it poorly and it's obvious that Flowers handled it even worse.
Yes, Flowers can decide who to speak to and who not to speak to. Nobody has argued otherwise. What he cannot do is prevent - via physical assault or intimidation - someone from standing where he has every right to stand.
Your contention is that a person who has a right to be there and has to be there to do his job should nonetheless remove himself based on a player's whims?
So, if say, the president were holding a news conference and a credentialed reporter he (she?) doesn't like attends, that reporter should either leave or is at fault if the Secret Service roughs him/her up?
And, seriously, do we want a situation where reporters are required to go away because their interviewee doesn't want to deal with them?
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i just love when someone has to announce that they have so & so on ignore.
That was one of Chico's favorite moves.
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If she hadn't gotten so drunk, this wouldn't have happened......
The scale of significance is different obviously, but you are victim shaming nonetheless. And keep in mind the reporter wasn't even talking to Flowers, just standing there. Does that mean Flowers has the right to not only not talk to a person but has the right to have people not be able to hear him?
You really went apples to asteroids with that analogy. Let's not get overdramatic here. Shoving someone who you asked repeatedly to move out of your personal space is in no way shape or form even in the same realm as a drunk girl being sexually assaulted.
Yes, Flowers can decide who to speak to and who not to speak to. Nobody has argued otherwise. What he cannot do is prevent - via physical assault or intimidation - someone from standing where he has every right to stand.
Your contention is that a person who has a right to be there and has to be there to do his job should nonetheless remove himself based on a player's whims?
So, if say, the president were holding a news conference and a credentialed reporter he (she?) doesn't like attends, that reporter should either leave or is at fault if the Secret Service roughs him/her up?
And, seriously, do we want a situation where reporters are required to go away because their interviewee doesn't want to deal with them?
Let's get one thing straight to start...The POTUS holding a press conference is very different than an athlete talking to beat reporters after a game.
When did I say that it's OK to rough someone up? I said that the reporter was in the wrong but that what Flowers did was much worse.
Your contention is that if someone with whom you don't have a very good relationship is standing in your personal space and you can ask that person to repeatedly to leave, it would be completely and totally fine with you if that person were to stay. Let's get this clear, I'm not saying that Flowers was right to shove the reporter. He was very wrong. I'm also saying that it was disrespectful of the reporter to continue to stay close to Flowers after repeatedly being asked to leave.
I'll believe what I believe and you can believe whatever you want to believe. You guys seem to think this was a bigger deal than the actual reporter does.
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This is the reporters job. You get asked to do an interview you do it. Its such a competetive industry that you need to force your way in the door or make sure that door stays open. Even if the reporter was an ass (which it doesnt seem like he was) or wouldnt leave him alone, THAT IS HIS JOB.
Does a prosecuting attorney stop asking questions because the person on the stand wants to be left alone? Im pretty sure they dont, so why is this acceptable but a reporter asking questions in an environment where questions are allowed isnt? You would have an argument if the athlete is walking home from the store or out at dinner, but post game locker room pressers are usually fair game.
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You really went apples to asteroids with that analogy. Let's not get overdramatic here. Shoving someone who you asked repeatedly to move out of your personal space is in no way shape or form even in the same realm as a drunk girl being sexually assaulted.
I clearly indicated the scale was different, but conceptually its the same. You are blaming a person for the inappropriate actions of another person who was simply doing their job and/or exerting their own personal rights.
Additionally, could you define how large the diameter of personal space is? 6 feet, 12 feet, 200 feet? The reporter was standing near Flower's locker and said nothing, how was he in his personal space?
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I'll believe what I believe and you can believe whatever you want to believe. You guys seem to think this was a bigger deal than the actual reporter does.
You're the one making a federal case out how the reporter was in the wrong. The issue is of no particular interest to me, but the concept that somehow the reporter has fault in the situation is kind of crazy to me.
Side note, having players shoving reporters after games isn't exactly a great way to expand the ratings of the games.
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You're the one making a federal case out how the reporter was in the wrong. The issue is of no particular interest to me, but the concept that somehow the reporter has fault in the situation is kind of crazy to me.
Side note, having players shoving reporters after games isn't exactly a great way to expand the ratings of the games.
You thinks it's crazy, that's fine with me. I tend to believe that cases like this aren't always as clear-cut as "innocent victim" and "violent oppressor."
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To no one's surprise, all signs point to the Bears moving on from Cutler as soon as they can. Wouldn't be surprised to see him end up in Miami with Gase next season, or perhaps Brandon Marshall could convince the Jets to bring him in. Cutler and the NY media would be the quite the pairing!
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He has a year left on his deal correct? If they truly are moving on, I wonder if they could get anything in return at this point. I'm too lazy to look up the details of his contract.
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He has a year left on his deal correct? If they truly are moving on, I wonder if they could get anything in return at this point. I'm too lazy to look up the details of his contract.
This is the last guaranteed year on his deal. The team only owes him $1M each of the next 2 seasons, as opposed to about $17M each season to keep him.
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This is the last guaranteed year on his deal. The team only owes him $1M each of the next 2 seasons, as opposed to about $17M each season to keep him.
Yeah, it peanuts. I agree, for various reasons, Jay is done with the Bears after the season. Wouldn't be shock to see him in Miami with Gase. Tannehill has been horrible.
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Can't say I haven't been saying Cutler (and Rose) sucks for years. But I'm just a meathead Chicago sports blind hater and can't see greatness when it hits me in the head.
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Can't say I haven't been saying Cutler (and Rose) sucks for years. But I'm just a meathead Chicago sports blind hater and can't see greatness when it hits me in the head.
Congratulations. So have most Bears and Bulls fans.
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Congratulations. So have most Bears and Bulls fans.
Not the ones on MUScoop.
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Can't say I haven't been saying Cutler (and Rose) sucks for years. But I'm just a meathead Chicago sports blind hater and can't see greatness when it hits me in the head.
Wow, congrats on the hot take, so unique.
Can you link me some quotes from scoop outlining the posts where the Bears fans have been preaching his "greatness"?
Some of the Bears fans on Scoop that I can remember (to make it easier to find posts): MU B2002, MerrittsMustache, MUarmy81, jesmu84, etc
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Can't say I haven't been saying Cutler (and Rose) sucks for years. But I'm just a meathead Chicago sports blind hater and can't see greatness when it hits me in the head.
You don't make the Pro Bowl or become an MVP by "sucking".
Rose broke down due to injury.
Cutler was never "elite." Always an above-average QB only.
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I believe that a majority of Bears fans feel that Cutler is adequate. He's a slightly above average QB playing for a franchise that has struggled to find QBs even of that mediocre stature. He's frustrating to watch because his production doesn't seem to match his talent, but he also gives fans hope because it's obvious that the talent is there. In addition, he's an easy target because he can be a bit prickly, he has a huge contract and he genuinely dooooon't caaaaaaare about how he's publicly perceived.
Does he suck? Absolutely not. Is he in the upper echelon of NFL QBs? No, but taking his salary out of the equation, almost half the teams in the NFL would take him on gameday over their current QB.
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Wow, congrats on the hot take, so unique.
Can you link me some quotes from scoop outlining the posts where the Bears fans have been preaching his "greatness"?
Some of the Bears fans on Scoop that I can remember (to make it easier to find posts): MU B2002, MerrittsMustache, MUarmy81, jesmu84, etc
Thank you. How are we defining "hot take?" If it is true is it really a "hot take" or is it just, well, an accurate take? The Bulls rid themselves of the washed up player Rose was. The Bears appear to finally be ridding themselves of the bad player Jay Cutler is. As Chuck Woodson so astutely said, "The proof is in the pudding."
You really need links to prove that the Bears fans in here defended Cutler to their death every time I talked about how bad he is? Heck, even this season, we had a poster sarcastically proclaiming, "Cutler sucks" in their week 1 loss to the Texans, a game in which Cutler went 16/29 for 216 yards, 1 TD, and 1 INT. Go Jay! You the man!
If you haven't seen any arguments between me and any number of Chicago sports fans around here that resulted in them telling me to "take my green and gold glasses off" when calling out Jay for what he is (a guy with good physical tools who values the football less than anybody I've ever watched play football) then you haven't been following the NFL threads for very long or very closely.
To some Jay may not suck. Some may take Jay over a guy like Trevor Siemian. That's great. His numbers may look nice with some huge yards and a decent amount of touchdowns while other quarterbacks put up 80% of the yards and TDs. What takes Jay from being a solid quarterback to a sucky quarterback is the absurd amounts of turnovers. You don't win football games consistently when you lose the turnover battle. With Jay under center, chances are your team is going to lose the turnover battle. People can say that "half the league" would want Jay in place of what they have, but I'd say you're crazy if you really believe that.
Palmer, Ryan, Flacco, Newton, Prescott/Romo, Siemian, Rodgers, Luck, Bortles, Smith, Bradford, Brady, Brees, Manning, Carr, Wentz, Rothlisburger, Rivers, Wilson, Winston, Mariota are all quarterbacks I would undoubtedly take over Cutler.
Stafford and Cousins I'd put on par with Cutler.
That leaves Taylor, Kessler, Osweiler, Keenum, Tannehill, Fitzpatrick, and Gabbert as quarterbacks I'd take Jay over.
All in all, Jay sucks.
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Does he suck? Absolutely not. Is he in the upper echelon of NFL QBs? No, but taking his salary out of the equation, almost half the teams in the NFL would take him on gameday over their current QB.
Nope
These 24 teams for sure wouldn't: New England, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Indy, Tennessee, Oakland, San Diego, KC, NY Giants, Dallas, Washington, Philly, Minnesota, Green Bay, Detroit, New Orleans, Tampa Bay, Carolina, Atlanta, Arizona*, Seattle.
I'd also say Jacksonville is a toss up, and clearly they'd take Bortles if we're talking beyond one game/season. Heck, Cutler might not even get his job back from Hoyer.
He'd be the clear starter in Miami, Cleveland, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Houston, NY Jets and possibly Denver.
* Assuming Palmer is the starter.
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Nope
These 24 teams for sure wouldn't: New England, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Indy, Tennessee, Oakland, San Diego, KC, NY Giants, Dallas, Washington, Philly, Minnesota, Green Bay, Detroit, New Orleans, Tampa Bay, Carolina, Atlanta, Arizona*, Seattle.
I'd also say Jacksonville is a toss up, and clearly they'd take Bortles if we're talking beyond one game/season. Heck, Cutler might not even get his job back from Hoyer.
He'd be the clear starter in Miami, Cleveland, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Houston, NY Jets and possibly Denver.
* Assuming Palmer is the starter.
I don't buy that all of those 24 teams "for sure" wouldn't take Cutler, but I'll admit that it's closer to one-third of the teams than almost half of the team as I had previously stated.
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Nope
These 24 teams for sure wouldn't: New England, Buffalo, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Indy, Tennessee, Oakland, San Diego, KC, NY Giants, Dallas, Washington, Philly, Minnesota, Green Bay, Detroit, New Orleans, Tampa Bay, Carolina, Atlanta, Arizona*, Seattle.
I'd also say Jacksonville is a toss up, and clearly they'd take Bortles if we're talking beyond one game/season. Heck, Cutler might not even get his job back from Hoyer.
He'd be the clear starter in Miami, Cleveland, San Francisco, Los Angeles, Houston, NY Jets and possibly Denver.
* Assuming Palmer is the starter.
Taylor is terrible. Even I'd take Cutler over him. Stafford and Cousins are more or less the same as Cutler. And Bortles is definitely better than Cutler.
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Thank you. How are we defining "hot take?" If it is true is it really a "hot take" or is it just, well, an accurate take? The Bulls rid themselves of the washed up player Rose was. The Bears appear to finally be ridding themselves of the bad player Jay Cutler is. As Chuck Woodson so astutely said, "The proof is in the pudding."
You really need links to prove that the Bears fans in here defended Cutler to their death every time I talked about how bad he is? Heck, even this season, we had a poster sarcastically proclaiming, "Cutler sucks" in their week 1 loss to the Texans, a game in which Cutler went 16/29 for 216 yards, 1 TD, and 1 INT. Go Jay! You the man!
If you haven't seen any arguments between me and any number of Chicago sports fans around here that resulted in them telling me to "take my green and gold glasses off" when calling out Jay for what he is (a guy with good physical tools who values the football less than anybody I've ever watched play football) then you haven't been following the NFL threads for very long or very closely.
To some Jay may not suck. Some may take Jay over a guy like Trevor Siemian. That's great. His numbers may look nice with some huge yards and a decent amount of touchdowns while other quarterbacks put up 80% of the yards and TDs. What takes Jay from being a solid quarterback to a sucky quarterback is the absurd amounts of turnovers. You don't win football games consistently when you lose the turnover battle. With Jay under center, chances are your team is going to lose the turnover battle. People can say that "half the league" would want Jay in place of what they have, but I'd say you're crazy if you really believe that.
Palmer, Ryan, Flacco, Newton, Prescott/Romo, Siemian, Rodgers, Luck, Bortles, Smith, Bradford, Brady, Brees, Manning, Carr, Wentz, Rothlisburger, Rivers, Wilson, Winston, Mariota are all quarterbacks I would undoubtedly take over Cutler.
Stafford and Cousins I'd put on par with Cutler.
That leaves Taylor, Kessler, Osweiler, Keenum, Tannehill, Fitzpatrick, and Gabbert as quarterbacks I'd take Jay over.
All in all, Jay sucks.
You acknowledged his question but still didn't answer it ;)
When you say "Cutler sucks" and someone says that he's "slightly above average" or "the best option available," that's not quite "defending him to their death." You seem to believe that it is, but it's just not.
The reason that you get into ridiculous debates with Bears fans is because you go SO off the rails with your illogical inferences when discussing the Bears (Cutler, in particular) or if someone says just about anything remotely disparaging about the Packers. Tone it down, read what people actually write and you'll be able to have an actual conversation about football.
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So if the Bears go without Cutler next season, who is their likely QB? Draft one and throw him in the fire week 1? Hoyer while slowly bringing along a draft pick? Kaepernick?
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You acknowledged his question but still didn't answer it ;)
When you say "Cutler sucks" and someone says that he's "slightly above average" or "the best option available," that's not quite "defending him to their death." You seem to believe that it is, but it's just not.
The reason that you get into ridiculous debates with Bears fans is because you go SO off the rails with your illogical inferences when discussing the Bears (Cutler, in particular) or if someone says just about anything remotely disparaging about the Packers. Tone it down, read what people actually write and you'll be able to have an actual conversation about football.
I just call it like I see it. I guess maybe I could qualify that, in my opinion, Jay Cutler sucks relative to most other NFL starting quarterbacks. Obviously, when compared to your average human being Jay Cutler is very good at football, and is way better at what he does than almost any other human being on the planet is at what he or she does. But relative to the profession, in my opinion, he sucks. And in my opinion, if you are a guy who can single handedly eliminate any chance a team may have to win a championship in that sport, you suck at that sport. For example, while Carmelo Anthony is obviously not bad at playing the game of basketball, I personally would say that he sucks, because in my opinion you can't put enough around him with the salary cap to win. He single handedly will take away your team's chances of winning a title because, while very talented, he plays hero ball no matter who you put around him and that won't win you a championship. Much like Derrick Rose.
Maybe it's semantics, maybe it's valuing different things in athletes. Not sure. But I think Cutler sucks and I think Rose sucks.
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I just call it like I see it. I guess maybe I could qualify that, in my opinion, Jay Cutler sucks relative to most other NFL starting quarterbacks. Obviously, when compared to your average human being Jay Cutler is very good at football, and is way better at what he does than almost any other human being on the planet is at what he or she does. But relative to the profession, in my opinion, he sucks. And in my opinion, if you are a guy who can single handedly eliminate any chance a team may have to win a championship in that sport, you suck at that sport. For example, while Carmelo Anthony is obviously not bad at playing the game of basketball, I personally would say that he sucks, because in my opinion you can't put enough around him with the salary cap to win. He single handedly will take away your team's chances of winning a title because, while very talented, he plays hero ball no matter who you put around him and that won't win you a championship. Much like Derrick Rose.
Maybe it's semantics, maybe it's valuing different things in athletes. Not sure. But I think Cutler sucks and I think Rose sucks.
My definition of what makes a player "suck" differs, but I at least now understand where you're coming from. I appreciate the level-headed response and explanation.
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Thank you. How are we defining "hot take?" If it is true is it really a "hot take" or is it just, well, an accurate take? The Bulls rid themselves of the washed up player Rose was. The Bears appear to finally be ridding themselves of the bad player Jay Cutler is. As Chuck Woodson so astutely said, "The proof is in the pudding."
You really need links to prove that the Bears fans in here defended Cutler to their death every time I talked about how bad he is? Heck, even this season, we had a poster sarcastically proclaiming, "Cutler sucks" in their week 1 loss to the Texans, a game in which Cutler went 16/29 for 216 yards, 1 TD, and 1 INT. Go Jay! You the man!
If you haven't seen any arguments between me and any number of Chicago sports fans around here that resulted in them telling me to "take my green and gold glasses off" when calling out Jay for what he is (a guy with good physical tools who values the football less than anybody I've ever watched play football) then you haven't been following the NFL threads for very long or very closely.
.....
I asked for links for instances where Bears fans have praised his "greatness". You can't provide links, because I am guessing there aren't many (if any) quotes stating that on this board.
I have seen all the arguments, and even participated in some. I believe you and I had an argument about 4 years ago over a "half step". ;)
I like Culter, and always thought he caught excessive criticism because he wasn't warm and cuddly with the media. Is he a great QB? No. Did he have flashes of above average skill followed by moments of pure stupidity? Absolutely. Will I be sad to see the Cutler era over? Probably not, as I am sick of arguing with my dad about him. Is he Jeff George 2.0? Maybe.
I'm more concerned with the fact that despite having a need for a "QB of the future" the Bears have only drafted: David Fales, Nathan Enderle, and Dan LeFevour in the past 6 years.
And I don't really care about or have anything invested in Rose, other than a garbage future prop bet slip for Rose as MOP the year that Memphis let Mario bury a three to send the championship game into overtime. So no need to argue there.
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So if the Bears go without Cutler next season, who is their likely QB? Draft one and throw him in the fire week 1? Hoyer while slowly bringing along a draft pick? Kaepernick?
Resign Hoyer and draft a QB.
Hoyer is a good security blanket. Gives you an option at the position, so you don't have to throw your rookie QB to the wolves day one if the draft pick is not ready yet.
Pace is going to have a ton of heat on him heading into this off-season. Could be very likely that his future will be tied to the success or failure of the QB he drafts.
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Taylor is terrible. Even I'd take Cutler over him. Stafford and Cousins are more or less the same as Cutler. And Bortles is definitely better than Cutler.
Terrible?
Huh.
In games in which he's started, Taylor has completed 328 of 519 passes (62.6 percent) with 26 TDs to 10 INTs, a yards per attempt of 7.5 and a QB rating of 96.5 (Cutler's career QB rating is 85.9).
He was a top 10 QB in Pro Football Focus' rankings last year (Cutler was 15th).
In pretty much every significant statistical category he's done better than Cutler, and he's done it without as much skill position talent around him.
Heck, he's even got a winning record in Buffalo.
What's so terrible about him, exactly?
Stafford is way, way better than Cutler.
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Stafford is way, way better than Cutler.
Their QB ratings are virtually identical, Cutler has a better completion percentage, Stafford a slightly better TD/INT rating, and Cutler has won more playoff games. Lets also see how Stafford's numbers change when he's not throwing prayers up to one of the best 5 WRs of all time. They are basically the same kind of QB.
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Their QB ratings are virtually identical, Cutler has a better completion percentage, Stafford a slightly better TD/INT rating, and Cutler has won more playoff games. Lets also see how Stafford's numbers change when he's not throwing prayers up to one of the best 5 WRs of all time. They are basically the same kind of QB.
Stafford is a more likable Cuter.
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Their QB ratings are virtually identical, Cutler has a better completion percentage, Stafford a slightly better TD/INT rating, and Cutler has won more playoff games. Lets also see how Stafford's numbers change when he's not throwing prayers up to one of the best 5 WRs of all time. They are basically the same kind of QB.
Stafford is playing the best ball of his career this year without Calvin Johnson. On pace for career highs in QB rating and completion percentage. I'm not arguing that he's better off without Johnson, but it seems to dispel the notion that he can't succeed without him (albeit a relatively small sample size).
We'll save the Calvin Johnson debate for another day. One of top 5 most physically gifted? You bet. a
Also, "won more playoff games" is a pretty meaningless stat for guys with 1 playoff win between them.
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Stafford is playing the best ball of his career this year without Calvin Johnson. On pace for career highs in QB rating and completion percentage. I'm not arguing that he's better off without Johnson, but it seems to dispel the notion that he can't succeed without him (albeit a relatively small sample size).
We'll save the Calvin Johnson debate for another day. One of top 5 most physically gifted? You bet. a
Also, "won more playoff games" is a pretty meaningless stat for guys with 1 playoff win between them.
Similar to how Cutler was better without Marshall last season...and also similar is how the Lions are on pace to win 6 games just like the Bears did last season ;)
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Similar to how Cutler was better without Marshall last season...and also similar is how the Lions are on pace to win 6 games just like the Bears did last season ;)
Well ..
1. I never made the claim that Cutler couldn't play without Marshall. He did that with Stafford and Megatron.
2. Cutler still had Alshon Jeffrey and Matt Forte last year. Stafford has Marvin Jones (who is putting up numbers) and Theo Riddick.
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So if the Bears go without Cutler next season, who is their likely QB? Draft one and throw him in the fire week 1? Hoyer while slowly bringing along a draft pick? Kaepernick?
Seems like a no-brainer.
Either Cutler
or
Hoyer, draft a QB in the 1st round to groom and use Cutler's salary for a top-flight tackle.
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Hoyer will be your Bears starter next year, Bears will trade out of their top 7 pick, back into the mid first round and draft Kaaya. I wish I could put $ on this happening.
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Hoyer will be your Bears starter next year, Bears will trade out of their top 7 pick, back into the mid first round and draft Kaaya. I wish I could put $ on this happening.
I will bet you a 6 pack.
Bears always find a way to surprise you.
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Taylor is terrible. Even I'd take Cutler over him. Stafford and Cousins are more or less the same as Cutler. And Bortles is definitely better than Cutler.
You're wrong on this. I'm a Bills fan and have seen almost every game Taylor has played. He's a terrible fantasy QB, but a MUCH better actual QB than Cutler. He has brains, accuracy, pocket presence, a very good deep ball, can make a play when things break down, and raises his game in crunch time. Only thing missing is he doesn't have a cannon, otherwise he'd be a top 5 QB. There aren't more than 10 I'd trade him for right now. His receivers have dropped a ton of easy balls this year especially, and a lot of the time his best options have been hurt. Otherwise his stats would look much better. He's our best QB since Kelly without question.
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You're wrong on this. I'm a Bills fan and have seen almost every game Taylor has played. He's a terrible fantasy QB, but a MUCH better actual QB than Cutler. He has brains, accuracy, pocket presence, a very good deep ball, can make a play when things break down, and raises his game in crunch time. Only thing missing is he doesn't have a cannon, otherwise he'd be a top 5 QB. There aren't more than 10 I'd trade him for right now. His receivers have dropped a ton of easy balls this year especially, and a lot of the time his best options have been hurt. Otherwise his stats would look much better. He's our best QB since Kelly without question.
I'm a big Tyrod Taylor fan. He's actually an excellent fantasy QB, just because of his running ability. Too bad Watkins got hurt this year.
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This Packers offense is confusing and frustrating to watch right now.
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Mac gives the opposing teams more points than he gets the Packers. One of his specialties is giving the opposition timeouts when they're trying to take it to the half and then giving up points.
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Bob McGinn's article on Rodgers this morning was brutal. Implied that a new coach might be best considering how Favre improved whenever a new coach came in. At least a new offensive staff should be considered.
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Mac gives the opposing teams more points than he gets the Packers. One of his specialties is giving the opposition timeouts when they're trying to take it to the half and then giving up points.
Calling it after first down was fine. After second? Nope.
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That pick was the worst throw I've ever seen Rodgers make.
Something is really wrong here.
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Rodgers looks lost. He's better than this.
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Wow, I'm honestly kinda stunned how terrible Rodgers is today, so many incredibly poor decisions.
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Not just the decisions. He's missing somewhat easy throws.
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Both times Brett has been back in Lambeau since (actually) retiring the Packers have embarrassed themselves. Don't let that man back in the building on game day again.
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I hope the Pack rights the ship for Thursday night, I'm now nervous about the game. Bears did everything right today, Pack everything wrong. Flip the script on Thursday please.
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Rodgers looks lost. He's better than this now.
FIFY
*couldn't resist - too easy of a set up
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Mac and Rodgers need to realize that the way the Packers are going to win games is to control the football and the clock, win the field position battle, and let your defense keep you in games. This isn't the Packers offense of the first 6 years of Rodgers's career. The defense is good (when the top 3 cornerbacks aren't out, which may be an issue), Lacy is running incredibly well, and the line is playing really well. Rodgers and the receivers both stink, and Mac has failed to adjust to that. The problem is I think Mac and Rodgers are both too prideful to try to win games this way. Guess we'll see.
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Skol Vikings we are the CONSENSUS. REPEAT CITY + Super Bowl
Erin's downward trend has been obvious before this year.
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Skol Vikings we are the CONSENSUS. REPEAT CITY + Super Bowl
Erin's downward trend has been obvious before this year.
The Viking's lack of any trophies has been obvious before...well, it's been obvious for forever.
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http://www.bigplay.com/eagles-browns-find-hilarious-way-to-troll-nfls-ridiculous-twitter-rule/
Pretty funny.
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http://www.bigplay.com/eagles-browns-find-hilarious-way-to-troll-nfls-ridiculous-twitter-rule/
Pretty funny.
I think the NFL's use of Twitter is a case in point of how they have no idea how to market themselves in this day and age.
Basically their tweets are some hype message, followed by a 15 second sponsorship video, and then a highlight that you can catch anywhere if you look. I bet 90% of the people last about two seconds into the sponsor and go elsewhere.
Nothing organic. Nothing witty or interesting. Just another thing to earn some $$ off of. They could really use Twitter and other forms of social media more effectively to "humanize" their image. Instead it feels very, very corporate.
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I think the NFL's use of Twitter is a case in point of how they have no idea how to market themselves in this day and age.
Basically their tweets are some hype message, followed by a 15 second sponsorship video, and then a highlight that you can catch anywhere if you look. I bet 90% of the people last about two seconds into the sponsor and go elsewhere.
Nothing organic. Nothing witty or interesting. Just another thing to earn some $$ off of. They could really use Twitter and other forms of social media more effectively to "humanize" their image. Instead it feels very, very corporate.
This. 100% This. First the MLB and now the NFL. Absolute freaking morons.
When thousands of people can tweet/snap/vine clips/gifs/whatever, you're going to get so much more attention then when it has to come from just one or two "official" accounts.
Who is running these things?
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Mac and Rodgers need to realize that the way the Packers are going to win games is to control the football and the clock, win the field position battle, and let your defense keep you in games. This isn't the Packers offense of the first 6 years of Rodgers's career. The defense is good (when the top 3 cornerbacks aren't out, which may be an issue), Lacy is running incredibly well, and the line is playing really well. Rodgers and the receivers both stink, and Mac has failed to adjust to that. The problem is I think Mac and Rodgers are both too prideful to try to win games this way. Guess we'll see.
McCarthy has to go after this year. He keeps saying scheme is a crutch as if it's something to be disdained. If you can't walk (run your offense) then use the damn crutches (scheme). How is it that every team in the NFL runs bunch route packages that generate legal rubs and pick plays that get players open....every team but the Packers. I watched several of the plays over again in the all 22 view and all of the routes are independent and count on the one on one match up wins. The receivers aren't winning those match ups and more, so why do you keep trying it?
Having said all of the that, it certainly doesn't help that when opportunities present themselves Rodgers doesn't make the throw. I'm 100% convinced it is a mental issue. It may manifest itself in how he plays but I don't think it's that he physically can't play at an elite level any more. I think that there is some sort of mental block that he just can't work past right now. Someone get Mason Crosby's sports psychologist or Renee Russo on the phone, stat!
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I think the NFL's use of Twitter is a case in point of how they have no idea how to market themselves in this day and age.
Basically their tweets are some hype message, followed by a 15 second sponsorship video, and then a highlight that you can catch anywhere if you look. I bet 90% of the people last about two seconds into the sponsor and go elsewhere.
Nothing organic. Nothing witty or interesting. Just another thing to earn some $$ off of. They could really use Twitter and other forms of social media more effectively to "humanize" their image. Instead it feels very, very corporate.
Couldn't agree more. This is where the NBA is just running laps around MLB and NFL. You want non-official sources sharing content and speaking to it, that's what being viral is. If the NFL had a rational social media strategy they would embrace all of the non-authorized sharing but commenting and feeding into it. All this does is just feed into the image of the NFL being a corporate money printing machine who doesn't care about the fans as anything as an endless source of revenue.
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McCarthy has to go after this year. He keeps saying scheme is a crutch as if it's something to be disdained. If you can't walk (run your offense) then use the damn crutches (scheme). How is it that every team in the NFL runs bunch route packages that generate legal rubs and pick plays that get players open....every team but the Packers. I watched several of the plays over again in the all 22 view and all of the routes are independent and count on the one on one match up wins. The receivers aren't winning those match ups and more, so why do you keep trying it?
Having said all of the that, it certainly doesn't help that when opportunities present themselves Rodgers doesn't make the throw. I'm 100% convinced it is a mental issue. It may manifest itself in how he plays but I don't think it's that he physically can't play at an elite level any more. I think that there is some sort of mental block that he just can't work past right now. Someone get Mason Crosby's sports psychologist or Renee Russo on the phone, stat!
Agreed on all of this. The Packers, when they were able to win their 1 on 1 matchups out wide, ran a ton of bubble screens, to the point where people were naming it the "Packers offensive PI" when looking at whether the blocking WRs were blocking prior to the receiver catching the ball. I remember commentators going into games talking about watching whether the refs throw the flags on those plays or not, and we'd eat teams up doing it. Then you run stuff off of that and the field is wide open. There used to be a ton of quick slants and those are gone too. Now we just basically play backyard football.
I long for the day where Mac maybe tries to watch some video of the Patriots and something clicks for him. "Wait, you can take a bunch of 5'7", unathletic WRs and just have them sit in the open zones in the defense and dink and dunk for 7 yards per play and then once the safeties finally move up, 'Oh look, there's Gronk running right down the seam wide open!'" But, according to Mac and Rodgers, nothing will be wrong and we just need to execute.
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Couldn't agree more. This is where the NBA is just running laps around MLB and NFL. You want non-official sources sharing content and speaking to it, that's what being viral is. If the NFL had a rational social media strategy they would embrace all of the non-authorized sharing but commenting and feeding into it. All this does is just feed into the image of the NFL being a corporate money printing machine who doesn't care about the fans as anything as an endless source of revenue.
MLB's use of social media is pretty good. Especially on the team level, Cubs Twitter has highlights up in minutes. Snapchat use is fantastic as well.
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MLB's use of social media is pretty good. Especially on the team level, Cubs Twitter has highlights up in minutes. Snapchat use is fantastic as well.
MLB has definitely gotten better than what it use to be, however I still think they still go after non-team blogs for showing highlights or stuff showing up on youtube.
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MLB has definitely gotten better than what it use to be, however I still think they still go after non-team blogs for showing highlights or stuff showing up on youtube.
Yup. They still pursue legal action toward blogs or especially toward any "unauthorized" users on twitter sharing any sort of video/vine/gif/images
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MLB has definitely gotten better than what it use to be, however I still think they still go after non-team blogs for showing highlights or stuff showing up on youtube.
They do, but their digital platform is the best. It's not like the NFL's crap, you want MLB replays, MLB gives them to you within minutes. Much like the NBA on Vine.
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Lacy to IR.
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Can't recall ever being less excited about a Bears Pack game than I am for tonight.
I also feel like the previous sentence isn't grammatically correct.
Season can't end soon enough.
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Big fight for positioning in the NFC North 2nd place race! Good luck, lil divisional buddies!
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Dear Minnesotans,
How many world championships do the Vikings have?
Signed,
Your Big Brothers in Green Bay & Chicago
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Dear Minnesotans,
How many world championships do the Vikings have?
Signed,
Your Big Brothers Dad in Green Bay & Big Brother in Chicago
FIFY.
I remember when winning a Division felt important or like a big accomplishment.
Wait, nevermind.
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This will be the least watched Bears/Pack game that I can remember.
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Pack already getting questionable PI calls in Lambeau, hey?
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Both of these teams are terrible, burn this first half game tape.
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https://twitter.com/tallmaurice/status/788902112327589888
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https://twitter.com/tallmaurice/status/788902112327589888
Lol.
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https://twitter.com/tallmaurice/status/788902112327589888
That's a level of WTF I've never seen before.
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Nobody cares if he beats his wife. The Giants, the NFL, Scoop. I posted about this a while back and there was zero discussion.
I wrote:
Exactly. Why hasn't Gooddell called Brown in to answer for the 20 allegations?
Brady is called in and punished for not answering. Matthews and Peppers have been told they will be punished for not answering.
Yet, Brown is not even questioned about abuse report after abuse report after abuse report - many of which are documented by police.
The answer is simple and clear. It was made clear with the minimal punishment of Rice (which was only increased after a public outcry) and now Brown. The NFL policy was clear with Kevin Hardy. Beating women is strictly a PR problem to Roger - nothing more.
Beating women is a very, very minimal offense in the NFL. However, taking the wrong substance to help your body recover from the beating it takes is a major criminal offense.
Women would be treated better with Drumpf as NFL Commissioner.
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It is absolutely bizarre how the NFL can continue to trip itself up over and over again on the same exact issue. And why the Giants just don't drop him I can't figure out either.
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The level of cluelessness at the NFL executive level is staggering. I'm not sure why the NFL can't f' this up over and over again. Zero tolerance policy and be done, why is this hard.
FYI, this is part of why NFL rankings are tanking....people are starting to actually care about the non-football parts of the game.
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The level of cluelessness at the NFL executive level is staggering. I'm not sure why the NFL can't f' this up over and over again. Zero tolerance policy and be done, why is this hard.
Because Goodell is inept. Has zero PR understanding or ability. He's made the owners money, but he's also hurting the league with his office's inability to handle these type of situations.
Over the past 5 years, far too many of NFL's top stories are controversies that have involved his office. In many cases, these stories have come to overshadow what the fans really care about, the players and plays on the field.
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Giants signed Gould, and my guess would be that after he makes a few kicks Sunday they will cut Brown. And help him to "get the treatment he needs."
Although McAdoo doubled down this morning:
Gregg Rosenthal @greggrosenthal 3h3 hours ago
McAdoo: I went around to each position room and let the players know our decision with Josh (Brown).
Gregg Rosenthal @greggrosenthal 3h3 hours ago
McAdoo: It was a tough conversation with Josh. ... We're not going to turn our back on Josh.
Gregg Rosenthal @greggrosenthal 3h3 hours ago Hounslow, London
Well that McAdoo session was one of the more uncomfortable press conferences I've seen.
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Giants signed Gould, and my guess would be that after he makes a few kicks Sunday they will cut Brown. And help him to "get the treatment he needs."
And he may need treatment, and that's great.
I also don't think people should be banned permanently, but if you say your going to have a six game, zero tolerance policy...then have one.
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Because Goodell is inept. Has zero PR understanding or ability. He's made the owners money, but he's also hurting the league with his office's inability to handle these type of situations.
Over the past 5 years, far too many of NFL's top stories are controversies that have involved his office. In many cases, these stories have come to overshadow what the fans really care about, the players and plays on the field.
I honestly think the blame goes to the contentious relationship between the NFL and the NFLPA. Every decision has become political. Even something that should be a bipartisan no brainer like this becomes a card to play. Whose to blame for the relationship? Fault on both sides honestly
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I honestly think the blame goes to the contentious relationship between the NFL and the NFLPA. Every decision has become political. Even something that should be a bipartisan no brainer like this becomes a card to play. Whose to blame for the relationship? Fault on both sides honestly
I'd argue the dictator is usually more at fault in that kind of caustic relationship.
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His press conference today was certainly interesting. It was especially interesting being there in person.
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His press conference today was certainly interesting. It was especially interesting being there in person.
#humblebrag?
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I hope this doesn't affect the ratings.
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I honestly think the blame goes to the contentious relationship between the NFL and the NFLPA. Every decision has become political. Even something that should be a bipartisan no brainer like this becomes a card to play. Whose to blame for the relationship? Fault on both sides honestly
I actually don't think this is a "bipartisan no brainer" in their eyes. The NFLPA wants their players to play and resents when Goodell exercises his vast power to suspend players.
As evidence, the NFLPA appealed Rice's and Hardy's suspensions. So if he doesn't suspend players like Brown, the NFLPA is just fine with that.
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I actually don't think this is a "bipartisan no brainer" in their eyes. The NFLPA wants their players to play and resents when Goodell exercises his vast power to suspend players.
As evidence, the NFLPA appealed Rice's and Hardy's suspensions. So if he doesn't suspend players like Brown, the NFLPA is just fine with that.
Well we know one player that isn't fine with it...
Steve Smith Sr.
1d
You know what if your ex-wife was my daughter yo ASS would be on IR.... what a shame NFL acts like it cares
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I actually don't think this is a "bipartisan no brainer" in their eyes. The NFLPA wants their players to play and resents when Goodell exercises his vast power to suspend players.
As evidence, the NFLPA appealed Rice's and Hardy's suspensions. So if he doesn't suspend players like Brown, the NFLPA is just fine with that.
I think that is because the nflpa feels like they need to fight Goodell on any decision or risk losing ground in their pissing contest. I refuse to believe that the nflpa truly feels strongly about protecting players who beat their wives.
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It is absolutely bizarre how the NFL can continue to trip itself up over and over again on the same exact issue. And why the Giants just don't drop him I can't figure out either.
Mara said the Giants were aware of the abusive relationship, including the need for security to protect Brown’s ex-wife from the kicker at the Pro Bowl.
“He certainly admitted to us that he abused his wife in the past,” Mara said. “What’s a little unclear is the extent of that.”
The Giants knew and didn't care. Simple as that. As long as he was good at kicking a football, beating a woman did not even register on their minds. Like most animals that abuse women, Mara probably figured she deserved it, so why let it affect his team.
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I hope this doesn't affect the ratings.
I'll watch a wife beater any day. Just don't make me watch someone who protests peacefully.
I am absolutely sure people are bothered more by Kaepernick than by Rice, Brown, Hardy, or Chapman.
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Well we know one player that isn't fine with it...
There need to be more players like that. Brown's knees won't bend in certain directions any more than anyone else.
Beating a woman time after time after time after time might just be an excuse for a late hit. He should never be allowed back in the league.
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#humblebrag?
Not gonna lie, its probably only gonna get worse.
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Mara said the Giants were aware of the abusive relationship, including the need for security to protect Brown’s ex-wife from the kicker at the Pro Bowl.
“He certainly admitted to us that he abused his wife in the past,” Mara said. “What’s a little unclear is the extent of that.”
But peaceful protests about institutional racism are the problem.
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I'll watch a wife beater any day. Just don't make me watch someone who protests peacefully.
I am absolutely sure people are bothered more by Kaepernick than by Rice, Brown, Hardy, or Chapman.
This. If Brown were to have knelt during an anthem, it would be a much bigger story across all media.
The really weird thing about this situation, is it's a kicker. I mean, the Giants signed him to a 2 year contract, at age 40, knowing about some of this. A kicker. I don't understand it. Did Brown have incriminating photos of Mara?
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This. If Brown were to have knelt during an anthem, it would be a much bigger story across all media.
The really weird thing about this situation, is it's a kicker. I mean, the Giants signed him to a 2 year contract, at age 40, knowing about some of this. A kicker. I don't understand it. Did Brown have incriminating photos of Mara?
That was one of my first thoughts too. Its not like he'd be hard to replace. There really was no reason not to cut ties with him.
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The real Samuel Bradford is showing up so far today.
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Good day for the Bears today, I've been in full lose every game mode for a few weeks now. Big meaningless wins by the Jets & Fins. Hopefully the Niners can help out as well.
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Mara said the Giants were aware of the abusive relationship, including the need for security to protect Brown’s ex-wife from the kicker at the Pro Bowl.
“He certainly admitted to us that he abused his wife in the past,” Mara said. “What’s a little unclear is the extent of that.”
The Giants knew and didn't care. Simple as that. As long as he was good at kicking a football, beating a woman did not even register on their minds. Like most animals that abuse women, Mara probably figured she deserved it, so why let it affect his team.
I like that Mara believes there's an acceptable level of spousal abuse. He's just not quite sure whether Josh Brown exceeded it.
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I'll watch a wife beater any day. Just don't make me watch someone who protests peacefully.
I am absolutely sure people are bothered more by Kaepernick than by Rice, Brown, Hardy, or Chapman.
I'm bothered by both, as are most people. They do not have to be opposing.
However, one is a criminal action as well as a workplace action protected by the union. The actions that many of us football fans would like the league to take require essentially a due process under the union bargained rights.
Do not forget that one takes place while watching the game / pre-game, the other takes place in the privacy of one's home and isn't on camera. How did people feel about Ray Rice before the video came out vs after the video came out? Watching someone insult the nation and not standing for the national anthem on camera has an effect, whether we choose to accept that or not. Then when it spreads to other players on other teams, it grabs some people as disrespectful. Either way, people can easily be upset at both scenarios.
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No game has ever deserved to end in a tie more than this SEA/AZ game.
What a truly awful game.
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When that thing went into overtime, I went to bed. I made a good call.
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No game has ever deserved to end in a tie more than this SEA/AZ game.
What a truly awful game.
I'm a 54-year old guy with two herniated discs, and I could have made either of those last two FGs in OT.
Were the kickers doing tequila shots on the sidelines?
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Packers with a bunch of roster moves. Abby to IR with a 'thigh contusion'. (Heard that right.) Allison to 53. Somebody had to be interested in signing Geronimo and Ted said 'Dump Abby'. No disagreement from me. Guy had 3 years. Allison looks like a real player as soon as next year.
Also Banjo to IR with the announcement that Randall out 4-6 following groin surgery. Expect a DB signing shortly. Probably a street vet.
The Browns have now claimed Callahan following his release by the Saints. His entire extended family is reportedly weeping audibly.
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Callahan should have stuck on packers practice squad.
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Callahan should have stuck on packers practice squad.
I'm not sure his financial planner would agree.
Minimum NFL salary = $27,000 a week
Practice squad salary = $6,900 a week
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I'm not sure his financial planner would agree.
Minimum NFL salary = $27,000 a week
Practice squad salary = $6,900 a week
On occasion the Packers have paid more than PS standard to keep a guy they like. But one has to get to the PS first. Callahan is subject to his existing contract and has now been claimed on waivers by 2 clubs in accordance with that contract. Only true vets like Sitton are immediate free agents able to do whatever they want.
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On occasion the Packers have paid more than PS standard to keep a guy they like. But one has to get to the PS first. Callahan is subject to his existing contract and has now been claimed on waivers by 2 clubs in accordance with that contract. Only true vets like Sitton are immediate free agents able to do whatever they want.
I don't think that's the case. I think Callahan could have turned down signing with the Saints and the Browns to stay on the practice squad. Once the Packers and Saints cut him, the contract is void.
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I don't think that's the case. I think Callahan could have turned down signing with the Saints and the Browns to stay on the practice squad. Once the Packers and Saints cut him, the contract is void.
Perhaps. But at minimum he is 100% subject to waiver claim and is not free to negotiate with anyone's 53 until he clears. He's never cleared since leaving the Packers.
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Perhaps. But at minimum he is 100% subject to waiver claim and is not free to negotiate with anyone's 53 until he clears. He's never cleared since leaving the Packers.
OK I got it. Thanks.
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Sultan, while I've not done the research and I'm not sure about the exact details, I do know that at the end of the season ANY junior player on the 53 or IR is 100% bound to his team as an exclusive rights FA and that it doesn't apply to PS guys. Last year the Packers elevated a young DB for the Arizona playoff game and left him inactive while they IRd some guy that was hurt. This was done for the sole purpose of control going forward. I am also 100% certain that a PS guy can decline a 53 contract. Not sure about the other direction unless he clears waivers.
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I think if a player is waived, and they clear waivers, they can go wherever they want. The problem, as you pointed out, is that Callahan didn't clear waivers.
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I think if a player is waived, and they clear waivers, they can go wherever they want. The problem, as you pointed out, is that Callahan didn't clear waivers.
100% agree with your statement. The remaining unanswered technical question is whether a player is allowed to deny a waiver claim and sign a PS contract. Admittedly, few if any would.
On a side note, I'm very convinced (with no evidence) that Geronimo's agent 'got a call' and TT made a roster move with Abby just to keep his young, seemingly talented receiver.
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100% agree with your statement. The remaining unanswered technical question is whether a player is allowed to deny a waiver claim and sign a PS contract. Admittedly, few if any would.
I don't think you can. So my initial statement was wrong.
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I just noticed that the hideous color rush unis this Thursday are going to look like Buzz Williams' old rec room chairs:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CvtRxZkVUAAmmSI.jpg)
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/columnists/ct-jay-cutler-bears-mulligan-spt-1027-20161026-column.html
The Jay Cutler saga continues.
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Jared Abbrederis was out and out waived by the Packers today. <sad trombone>
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Jared Abbrederis was out and out waived by the Packers today. <sad trombone>
That was quick. It was clear to me earlier this week that they were done. I still believe Allison's agent got a call Monday. Ted wasn't going to let him go.
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Jared Abbrederis was out and out waived by the Packers today. <sad trombone>
wow! i have a source(a lower level player personnel guy) that they were really high on him and thought they should cut one of the guys who is actually having a pretty good year and make jared their #3 behind jordy and ty. i guess that's why he's a "lower level" dude, 'eyne'r?
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Jared Abbrederis was out and out waived by the Packers today. <sad trombone>
I was hoping he would make it. But a 5th or 6th WR is not long for the NFL when constantly injured.
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Ty Montgomery out. Bummer.
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Good try today, Lions & Grean Bey. Erin looked good... just wasn't enough
PS- was ZFB at the Bills/Pats game today??
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Good try today, Lions & Grean Bey. Erin looked good... just wasn't enough
PS- was ZFB at the Bills/Pats game today??
We missed you around here last week buddy.
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I'm convinced that if there ever were a franchise in London, it would be the loudest stadium in the NFL.
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Good try today, Lions & Grean Bey. Erin looked good... just wasn't enough
PS- was ZFB at the Bills/Pats game today??
Fur sure, but F*ckin' left his blow-up doll at da hotel, hey?
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Since tonight's game is worthless to talk about as a Bears fan....
I found it interesting that the Bears have brought in an outside consultant to evaluate the football operation. I thought Fox would be safe no matter what this season, but that doesn't look to be the case. Hopefully the consultant's name gets leaked, as it would be interesting to know who was brought in.
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What? Didn't the Bears just do this two years ago when they hired Pace / Fox? Now my understanding is that Fox wasn't Pace's first choice and that ownership intervened. Accurate? If so, maybe they should just hire someone and let them do their thing.
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Since tonight's game is worthless to talk about as a Bears fan....
I found it interesting that the Bears have brought in an outside consultant to evaluate the football operation. I thought Fox would be safe no matter what this season, but that doesn't look to be the case. Hopefully the consultant's name gets leaked, as it would be interesting to know who was brought in.
I thought I saw on twitter somewhere that this consultant was not analyzing the football stuff but rather the business stuff. Might be incorrect though
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What? Didn't the Bears just do this two years ago when they hired Pace / Fox? Now my understanding is that Fox wasn't Pace's first choice and that ownership intervened. Accurate? If so, maybe they should just hire someone and let them do their thing.
Yes they did and they're doing it again. God, they are a joke.
It just shows you the McCaskey's are incapable of running the Bears, or any organization for that matter. Clowns. They can't help themselves, and I'm sure Fox charmed the socks off George and Vrig.
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I thought I saw on twitter somewhere that this consultant was not analyzing the football stuff but rather the business stuff. Might be incorrect though
Here's the report I read. Looks to be the football side.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000729654/article/bears-brass-scrutinizing-team-john-fox-after-another-poor-start
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What? Didn't the Bears just do this two years ago when they hired Pace / Fox? Now my understanding is that Fox wasn't Pace's first choice and that ownership intervened. Accurate? If so, maybe they should just hire someone and let them do their thing.
They did. Ownership brought in Ernie Accorsi to help with the GM search, which led to Ryan Pace. In addition, Accorsi supposedly had a strong voice in the Fox hiring.
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What do they want Fox to do? He has nothing to work with. Going 1-15 would be the best thing for the organization.
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What do they want Fox to do? He has nothing to work with. Going 1-15 would be the best thing for the organization.
Why, so they can f*ck up another high draft pick?
As a Packers fan I thank God for the McCaskys and the Fords
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What do they want Fox to do? He has nothing to work with. Going 1-15 would be the best thing for the organization.
Nothing. But that doesn't mean he's the right guy for the job, especially if he was "suggested" to the GM. Let the GM hire his guy. That's the job they hired him to do.
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Nothing. But that doesn't mean he's the right guy for the job, especially if he was "suggested" to the GM. Let the GM hire his guy. That's the job they hired him to do.
I've said from the get-go that a coach like Fox would have been a better option for the team immediately after Lovie, when they still had some talent and were coming off a 10-6 season. To hire Fox to be part of basically an entire rebuild just didn't make much sense to me, other than the fact that they needed to bring a respected voice into the lockerroom after Trestman was such a disaster.
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Queens appear to be back
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Good try today, Lions & Grean Bey. Erin looked good... just wasn't enough
PS- was ZFB at the Bills/Pats game today??
DOH! Spoke too soon. Standard Queens fanboy.
Now the question becomes does BeeJay go silent from here for another week until he thinks his Queens might actually do something for once in his life?
Hmm...
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Maybe JB was right.
The juggernaut from the Twin Cities was impressive.
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That's a Super Bowl contender? Woof.
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Can't say I'm thrilled with tonight's outcome. That being said, NFC is very wide open, and all of a sudden, Lions/Vikes is a huge game this coming Sunday.
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Skol Grizzlies!
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Looks like Jay Cutler costs yet another offensive coordinator his job:
http://www.profootballweekly.com/2016/11/02/minnesota-vikings-offensive-coordinator-norv-turner-reportedly-resigning/ax9ml22/
They should look into his brother Ron...
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Would have to think Shurmur or Sporano will get the job, as they are already on da payroll. (Too lazy to verify if either name is spelled correctly.)
Oh and another trading deadline passes with no deals. Can someone smarter than me explain this phenomenon?
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Because 80% of the teams have a reasonable shot at still making the playoffs and aren't going to throw in the towel after week 8.
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Lol.
BeeJay still predictably silent. Got a little excited a bit too early.
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Just 'Queens being 'Queens.
Zimmer now with a runaway lead in the "dumbest coach of the year" sweepstakes.
3rd and goal at the one with 30 seconds left and 2 timeouts. He calls a timeout with 20 seconds remaining on the play clock, so as to guarantee that Detroit gets a chance to tie the game.
How about someone tell the moron to let the play clock get down to a couple seconds and THEN call a timeout.
But I guess since he is collecting a paycheck from the Vikings, it means he is a professional coach.
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Who would have thought the AFC West would have been the best division in football through the half way point of the season?
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The Lion's play calling in the second half was pathetic. Stafford gunning is your best weapon and you don't use it until desperation time?!? Ridonkulous
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Packers special teams are horrendous today.
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Don't look now, but the Lions schedule is fantastic for them the rest of the way.
Bye
Jags
Vikes (Thanksgiving)
@Saints
Bears
@Giants
@Pokes
Packers
You get all 3 division opponents at home. Game at Dallas doesn't look great, but the Cowboys conceivably could have the NFC (not just division) locked up by then. They ultimately control their own destiny right now in the North.
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Packers special teams are horrendous today.
FIFY.
It's okay though. I've got the solution. Just promote the assistant special teams coach!
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Don't look now, but the Lions schedule is fantastic for them the rest of the way.
Bye
Jags
Vikes (Thanksgiving)
@Saints
Bears
@Giants
@Pokes
Packers
You get all 3 division opponents at home. Game at Dallas doesn't look great, but the Cowboys conceivably could have the NFC (not just division) locked up by then. They ultimately control their own destiny right now in the North.
I see anywhere from 4-6 losses in there.
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Lol.
BeeJay still predictably silent. Got a little excited a bit too early.
Premature ejaculation, hey?
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Packers look all around terrible thus far, I thought they'd come out focused and win today.
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Packers look all around terrible thus far, I thought they'd come out focused and win today.
I'd never count on that with Mac. You just never know.
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Detroit. Every game so far this year decided by one possession or less. All of the wins involving 4th quarter comebacks.
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Let's just throw our 5'10" 190 lb. WR trying to fight through an injury into the backfield and hand it off to him for his first touch in the 3rd quarter. Genius.
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MUDish, as soon as you think that there is hope for the Lions, they will find ways to lose that beggar description. It certainly hasn't been boring so far, but until the defense gets healthy and productive (no sacks from Ansah, no play from Levy, Slay out with a hammy, Ngata slow to recover from an injury) and the receivers hold onto the ball (leading the league in drops) this is just another year of fool's gold.
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MUDish, as soon as you think that there is hope for the Lions, they will find ways to lose that beggar description. It certainly hasn't been boring so far, but until the defense gets healthy and productive (no sacks from Ansah, no play from Levy, Slay out with a hammy, Ngata slow to recover from an injury) and the receivers hold onto the ball (leading the league in drops) this is just another year of fool's gold.
I hear ya Tower, but they have a game in hand with a Vikes team that is faltering, a possibly bad Packer team...all their remaining division games are at home. I just don't see anyone clearly leading this division the rest of the way. If you're going to be half a game out midway through the year, you can't ask for a better divisional set up than what the Lions have in front of them.
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Skol Vikings! What a crappy division and/or league. We shall prevail
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As a Minnesotan .. I can confirm: The Vikings have 53 years to go to break the Cubs' record for not winning a title.
Pro tip: Take the over.
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Lions have won 1 playoff game since their last NFL Championship in 1957. Vikings fans are spoiled in comparison.
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Packers look all around terrible thus far, I thought they'd come out focused and win today.
It's time to retool.
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It's time to retool.
This three game road trip coming up, I wouldn't be completely shocked if that happened to go 0-3. I don't think they will, but the eye test has seen enough to suggest this is at best a 7-9 team. I don't think McCarthy survives this.
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Packers will win a crappy division, might even beat a crappy team in a wild card round game, and everyone in Green Bay will pretend everything is just fine as always. Some random, meaningless ILB assistant coach will be the sacrificial lamb in the offseason just so the front office can say, "Hey we needed to make a change look what we did," and the Packers will go another year of having a HOF quarterbacking, making it about 20 straight years with only 2 rings to show for it.
Same crap different year.
I usually just hear snippets of the post game interviews throughout the week but my guess is today's went something like, "We had a great week of preparation and a great game plan we just didn't execute. 1-3 in this quarter isn't good but we're 4-4 on the year and the Colts played some good football today. I don't think anything's wrong we just gotta get ready for Tennessee" from Mac and, "We're right there we just have to get everyone on the same page and we'll be right where we expect to be" from Rodgers. It's like they have a script to just read straight off of about 14 out of 16 weeks a year.
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I just don't know what Green Bay does well. They've given up 30-burgers three of their last four (they held Matt Barkley's Bears to 10). Rodgers is just not the same, and his receivers aren't very good. They had a missed FG, gave up a return TD, and had another 50 yd return.
The Vikes D is still good, but their offense stinks. They're averaging 12 points a game over their three game losing streak. Their line is bottom 5 in the league, they aren't running the ball well, and lead the NFL in punts. Their next four games are brutal, @Was, AZ, @Det (T-giving), DAL.
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Even if you're a Lions fans out there, you still want to punch Golden Tate in the throat, right?
That guy is so obnoxious.
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Not really. This year he has had bad weeks (zero catches) and answered every question in an adult, responsible fashion. Considering how that game ended, an ounce of showboating on the way into the end zone for the game winning TD in OT is mouse nuts.
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So the Raiders are kinda good, huh?
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Packers will win a crappy division, might even beat a crappy team in a wild card round game, and everyone in Green Bay will pretend everything is just fine as always. Some random, meaningless ILB assistant coach will be the sacrificial lamb in the offseason just so the front office can say, "Hey we needed to make a change look what we did," and the Packers will go another year of having a HOF quarterbacking, making it about 20 straight years with only 2 rings to show for it.
Same crap different year.
I usually just hear snippets of the post game interviews throughout the week but my guess is today's went something like, "We had a great week of preparation and a great game plan we just didn't execute. 1-3 in this quarter isn't good but we're 4-4 on the year and the Colts played some good football today. I don't think anything's wrong we just gotta get ready for Tennessee" from Mac and, "We're right there we just have to get everyone on the same page and we'll be right where we expect to be" from Rodgers. It's like they have a script to just read straight off of about 14 out of 16 weeks a year.
Couldn't agree more. Real changes need to happen.
Starting with Capers. How many times does the defense need to collapse before he is finally held accountable? Defense collapsed last week after Packers got a late lead. Defense collapsed again at the end of both halves yesterday. And that is not even considering the EPIC collapses in the playoffs under Capers.
I would have no problem with McCarthy leaving either. His offense is about as stale as they come. They have been blown out in two consecutive home games where they were completely unprepared to play a football game. The Colts are a crap team that just showed GB what it is like to play hard. GB needs to learn that lesson or the season is lost.
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Yeah but, dey got injuries, hey?
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Couldn't agree more. Real changes need to happen.
Starting with Capers. How many times does the defense need to collapse before he is finally held accountable? Defense collapsed last week after Packers got a late lead. Defense collapsed again at the end of both halves yesterday. And that is not even considering the EPIC collapses in the playoffs under Capers.
I would have no problem with McCarthy leaving either. His offense is about as stale as they come. They have been blown out in two consecutive home games where they were completely unprepared to play a football game. The Colts are a crap team that just showed GB what it is like to play hard. GB needs to learn that lesson or the season is lost.
I neither hate nor love Capers. I think he's fine. Up until the last 3 years what have we really given him to work with? When there are years that Eric Walden is your best LB, you aren't going to be very good on defense. And as much as I hate to blame it on injuries, the injuries to the DBs (and the fact that you can rely on Clay being on the field about 50% of the time) has him in a pretty bad spot.
In my mind Mac has to go. I just don't think the Packers ever win another Title with him at the helm. Then again if you're getting rid of Mac you're probably getting rid of Capers.
Where do you go with the draft? OL and QB are obviously set for a while. Do you bring Cook back for another year? Do you bring Lacy back? Are you converting Montgomery to RB full time? I would love to find a big, athletic, strong WR in the draft that can turn into a true #1 out wide, and I think you either move Montgomery to RB or you draft a RB who is similar to Montgomery, in the Darren Sprolls style. I like Lacy but he doesn't fit the offense we should be running. I think Shields is done playing football and I think you need to address DB there. I don't think you can rely on Peppers and Matthews, I think ILB should actually be fine as I think Martinez and Ryan are going to be better than I expected. DL should be fine.
I guess I'd rank the needs as:
1) DB
2) WR
3) OLB
4) RB
Most importantly, coaching needs to be addressed. Someone who will hold Rodgers accountable would be nice.
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This division has three mediocre teams, and one that aspires to be mediocre.
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I have been a supporter of the Thompson/McCarthy regime. They have been very, very good.
However I think it is time for a change. McCarthy for sure. I am leaning toward replacing Thompson as well depending on who they might have waiting in the wings.
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I have been a supporter of the Thompson/McCarthy regime. They have been very, very good.
However I think it is time for a change. McCarthy for sure. I am leaning toward replacing Thompson as well depending on who they might have waiting in the wings.
If you could, it'd be great to bring McKensie back from the Raiders....learned at the knee of both Thompson and Wolf and has pulled together a pretty good team in Oakland.
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I have been a supporter of the Thompson/McCarthy regime. They have been very, very good.
However I think it is time for a change. McCarthy for sure. I am leaning toward replacing Thompson as well depending on who they might have waiting in the wings.
I am in the same camp. I have never stated before today that it might be best if McCarthy leaves.
Capers? I have been on the bandwagon to get rid of him for years. The defensive collapses are mounting higher and higher. The collapse in Seattle is among the worst in NFL history.
Thompson? He's not going to be let go under any circumstances. I would love to see a guy like Schneider come in here though. He is the kind of aggressive young GM that is needed
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Couldn't agree more. Real changes need to happen.
Starting with Capers. How many times does the defense need to collapse before he is finally held accountable? Defense collapsed last week after Packers got a late lead. Defense collapsed again at the end of both halves yesterday. And that is not even considering the EPIC collapses in the playoffs under Capers.
I would have no problem with McCarthy leaving either. His offense is about as stale as they come. They have been blown out in two consecutive home games where they were completely unprepared to play a football game. The Colts are a crap team that just showed GB what it is like to play hard. GB needs to learn that lesson or the season is lost.
I don't think the defense has been that bad this season, especially given the injuries at corner and missing Clay for two winnable games. If the offense was half competent we could win with this defense.
McCarthy has to go....don't think he does unless they miss the playoffs. Don't think there is any mechanism to force a change after this season like an owner might feel the pressure to do.
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Both Thompson and McCarthy's contracts are through the 2018 season. Thompson is in his mid-60s. I have my doubts if he wants to deal with a rebuild so I don't think he would willingly drop McCarthy.
So my honest guess as to what happens is that the Packers will stand pat this year and that Mark Murphy will spend the next year identifying and vetting potential Thompson replacements. If it another mediocre year, they will buy out the final year of both and give the new GM a blank slate to work with.
Perhaps they will do it this year and move Thompson into some sort of advisory role? We'll see.
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Eliot Wolf has long been rumored as a possible replacement. I know he is highly thought of.
I think McCarthy and Rodgers are two of the most to blame. Rodgers is throwing off his back foot on 2 pt conversions. I've also seen a lot of tweets today of him missing guys for easy 7 yd gains underneath and going for the home run. 3rd and 6 and we throw a bomb we probably complete 10% of the time was dumb.
I don't know if the offense is uncreative or if Rodgers is just not playing the way it is designed. Both mean McCarthy shares in a lot of blame. Very frustrating but hopefully they find something.
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Eliot Wolf is da GM in waitin'. Figurin' dis is da season ta miss da playoffs. 3 tough road games next up. If dey go 7-9, its adios mf'ers. Bring in da new regime, ai na?
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Eliot Wolf was always the guy in waiting for a smooth transition. But that doesn't mean a smooth transition is going to take place.
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Eliot Wolf has long been rumored as a possible replacement. I know he is highly thought of.
I think McCarthy and Rodgers are two of the most to blame. Rodgers is throwing off his back foot on 2 pt conversions. I've also seen a lot of tweets today of him missing guys for easy 7 yd gains underneath and going for the home run. 3rd and 6 and we throw a bomb we probably complete 10% of the time was dumb.
I don't know if the offense is uncreative or if Rodgers is just not playing the way it is designed. Both mean McCarthy shares in a lot of blame. Very frustrating but hopefully they find something.
I think up until the last 3 weeks there has been a lot that Rodgers has done pretty horribly. While still not perfect, especially this week when he went back to falling in love with looking down field and down field only, he has been much better lately than he was early in the year.
The offense has just become stale. It's the same thing we've always run but we no longer have the Jermichael Finleys and the Greg Jennings or even the younger James Joneses who will torch you if you play one on one coverage (and then will torch you if you sit back in zone). Now we have a bunch of guys who can't beat 1 on 1 press coverage and we won't run routes off of each other to help them. Mac's offense relies on players winning one on one matchups and we don't have the pieces to do it. A coach needs to adjust his scheme to the pieces he has to play with. Mac hasn't.
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There's an outside chance that next year is Rodgers last year as a Packer. If there is a regime change, would they want a 34 year old regressed Rodgers, with a $21 mil cap hit? I hadn't looked closely at Rodgers contract before, but like Cutler's, the back third is all single year deals, with no dead money.
Rodgers (barring injury) can certainly play into his late thirties, but I wouldn't be shocked if he was a Ram or Chief at that time.
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There's an outside chance that next year is Rodgers last year as a Packer. If there is a regime change, would they want a 34 year old regressed Rodgers, with a $21 mil cap hit? I hadn't looked closely at Rodgers contract before, but like Cutler's, the back third is all single year deals, with no dead money.
Rodgers (barring injury) can certainly play into his late thirties, but I wouldn't be shocked if he was a Ram or Chief at that time.
I would be very shocked.
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I would be very shocked.
I would be more shocked if there's a new regime, unfortunately.
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There's an outside chance that next year is Rodgers last year as a Packer. If there is a regime change, would they want a 34 year old regressed Rodgers, with a $21 mil cap hit? I hadn't looked closely at Rodgers contract before, but like Cutler's, the back third is all single year deals, with no dead money.
Rodgers (barring injury) can certainly play into his late thirties, but I wouldn't be shocked if he was a Ram or Chief at that time.
Not a chance in a league where "blah" QBs make $15-$18 million.
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Not a chance in a league where "blah" QBs make $15-$18 million.
You have to look at their entire roster as they move forward. To me, this is the Pack's first year moving towards football hell. If you move forward to 2018, Rodgers is 34, Matthews 32, Nelson 33, Lang 31, Peppers gone. You have some nice pieces on your O-line entering their prime, along with Dix and Daniels. Maybe Montgomery keeps developing, but the skill position players are mostly trending the wrong direction. All depends on if a new regime comes in and wants to blow things up, if that's the case, there's no dead money with Rodgers contract.
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Really it also depends on how good Brett Hundley is. If they feel he is the future, they should roll with it. Next year is his third year.
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Really it also depends on how good Brett Hundley is. If they feel he is the future, they should roll with it. Next year is his third year.
Favre/Rodgers 2.0?
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Favre/Rodgers 2.0?
If the Packers can manage to get a third quarterback of that level in a row...
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It's obvious he hit the jackpot with Rodgers and that's why we won the SB and should have won another by now. TT has been unable to draft a good defense and now o line.
This o-line sucks. You can't give a QB that much time to throw. Maybe if they gave him 15 seconds to throw instead of 5, the DBs would get tired and someone could get open.
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I don't like Richard Sherman.
But he's very intelligent
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Collin Kaepernik didn't vote and didn't pay attention to the election? Uhh, okay, so that just confirms what I said from the start, that the whole "protesting the injustices in this country" thing was an excuse for getting caught acting like a whiny baby because he lost his starting spot to a terrible football player. You want to "protest the injustices in this country" yet don't take part in your duty as a US citizen...oh yeah, and have a say in what changes might be made in this country? You're a real winner, man.
Way to stand up for those oppressed by oppressing your own voice.
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Not voting is a form of protest.
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Not voting is a form of protest.
Yup, one that achieves the exact opposite of what he claims to have been protesting for in the first place.
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I didn't say it was effective. I never said anything he was doing was effective.
It's just not about him losing his job.
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He was openly opposed to both major candidates and the system in general, and he's in a state where the result was known well in advance. I'd be more surprised if he did vote.
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Collin Kaepernik didn't vote and didn't pay attention to the election? Uhh, okay, so that just confirms what I said from the start, that the whole "protesting the injustices in this country" thing was an excuse for getting caught acting like a whiny baby because he lost his starting spot to a terrible football player. You want to "protest the injustices in this country" yet don't take part in your duty as a US citizen...oh yeah, and have a say in what changes might be made in this country? You're a real winner, man.
Way to stand up for those oppressed by oppressing your own voice.
He specifically said he didn't vote because he felt neither candidate would address the issues he was concerned about.
How do you know he doesn't do his duty as a US citizen? We know he sucks as a QB and that he doesn't stand for the national anthem. I doubt you know much more about his life than that.
I would think that wanting to improve the way people that are legally equal - yet ofttimes not treated that way - IS going above and beyond his duty as a citizen.
I would venture that Colin has a much higher moral standard than our future president. The evidence is overwhelmingly in Colin's favor.
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He specifically said he didn't vote because he felt neither candidate would address the issues he was concerned about.
How do you know he doesn't do his duty as a US citizen? We know he sucks as a QB and that he doesn't stand for the national anthem. I doubt you know much more about his life than that.
I would think that wanting to improve the way people that are legally equal - yet ofttimes not treated that way - IS going above and beyond his duty as a citizen.
I would venture that Colin has a much higher moral standard than our future president. The evidence is overwhelmingly in Colin's favor.
Uhh, I know he didn't do his duty as a US citizen because, well, he publicly stated as much by saying he didn't vote.
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Voting isn't a duty - it is neither a legal nor moral requirement.
Voting is a right that may, or may not, be exercised.
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Voting isn't a duty - it is neither a legal nor moral requirement.
Voting is a right that may, or may not, be exercised.
It's a civic duty.
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Uhh, I know he didn't do his duty as a US citizen because, well, he publicly stated as much by saying he didn't vote.
I'm guessing we'll never come to agreement on this issue. :-\
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Capers has the boys ready to play, again. :-\ :-\ :-\ :-\
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I'm never a fan of a midseason coaching change, don't think it ever fixes anything, but the way this is going I'd go fire Mac at halftime. He's gotta go.
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Looks like it will be 4 out of 5 weeks giving up 30+ points.
Easy to do when there is no effort whatsoever. They aren't even pretending to try on either side of the ball.
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Capers will be updating his LinkedIn at half. I don't know if McCarthy survives to tomorrow, but there is zero chance Capers is employed come Tuesday.
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Capers will be updating his LinkedIn at half. I don't know if McCarthy survives to tomorrow, but there is zero chance Capers is employed come Tuesday.
I entirely disagree. It SHOULD go that way, but that's not how it's done in GB.
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So for the 2 weeks Mac gave Montgomery a chance to play he was clearly our best offensive weapon. Now we're just going to make him strictly the backup to a 31 year old career backup RB coming off knee surgery. I love it.
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I am baffled. Special teams is a complete joke. How are you going to chop a kickoff to the 10 with 40 seconds left in the half when you know your kick coverage sucks? Kick it out of the end zone! Make them go 50 yards to get points. Instead you make them go 25. How are people this clueless employed to an NFL team?
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Capers will be updating his LinkedIn at half. I don't know if McCarthy survives to tomorrow, but there is zero chance Capers is employed come Tuesday.
Sadly, there is 0% chance of this happening.
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So for the 2 weeks Mac gave Montgomery a chance to play he was clearly our best offensive weapon. Now we're just going to make him strictly the backup to a 31 year old career backup RB coming off knee surgery. I love it.
Starks is approximately a million times better at blitz pickup against a Dick LeBeau defense.
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Starks is approximately a million times better at blitz pickup against a Dick LeBeau defense.
He is but why not then have Starks in the backfield and put Montgomery in the slot in Richard Rodgers's spot? I'd rather have a guy in there who at least has a prayer for even 2 YAC on little 3 yard out routes. I think I've seen Geronimo Allison on the field more than Montgomery today. Why?
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He is but why not then have Starks in the backfield and put Montgomery in the slot in Richard Rodgers's spot? I'd rather have a guy in there who at least has a prayer for even 2 YAC on little 3 yard out routes. I think I've seen Geronimo Allison on the field more than Montgomery today. Why?
I'm not disagreeing with you there.
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I'm not disagreeing with you there.
I probably just emphasized the wrong thing. My problem isn't that Mac's going with Starks as the feature back as he's actually a RB, but more so that Montgomery's roll now appears to be strictly as Starks's backup. From what I can recall I don't think Montgomery has lined up as a WR once this game.
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A week from today, the Lions will be in sole possession of first place in the North.
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Why? Do they have a second bye?
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A week from today, the Lions will be in sole possession of first place in the North.
You might be right.
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It will be an absolute joke if someone doesn't get fired after this.
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Why? Do they have a second bye?
I know they're not great, but they may be the prettiest girl left at the dance.
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19 accepted penalties in the Packers / Titans game.
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Cobb has to go this off-season. You cannot pay $12+ million for what he does on the field.
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I know they're not great, but they may be the prettiest girl left at the dance.
I mock the Lions because, well, they have a long history of completely sucking. My default is to assume they will lose. This year's team is fascinating to me. Every game has finished within one possession. Every game, they have trailed in the 4th. Every game they either come back late or lose. They could be 9-0, they could be 0-9. Stafford is playing extremely well, particularly at crunch time. The offensive line is young and, amazingly, getting better. They could be getting healthy. Get Levy and Slay back and Ansah actually productive and the defense might actually not suck.
But they are still the Lions. At this moment in time, they are a 2 am 7. A midnight 3. In the context of the NFC North, they are competitive. In the context of the NFL, I don't see how this is the year they win their second playoff game in my lifetime.
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Time to tear GB down...stuck with with Tollbooth Mike too long...wasted Rodgers.
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Glad it's basketball season so I can stop paying attention.
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Glad it's basketball season so I can stop paying attention.
I think MU will bring more happiness that GB for a change.
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This Steelers / Cowboys game is by far the best game of the year.
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This Steelers / Cowboys game is by far the best game of the year.
And it just got better. The Cowboys would be absolute morons to go back to Romo.
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What a game, wow.
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My thought for a new Packers coach: Darrel Bevell
Did great work with Favre late in his career and runs a much more "modern" offense at Seattle than McCarthy runs.
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My thought for a new Packers coach: Darrel Bevell
Did great work with Favre late in his career and runs a much more "modern" offense at Seattle than McCarthy runs.
I keep thinking McDaniels. I don't know what McDaniels thinks is the ideal place for him, but I'd like the fit there.
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I keep thinking McDaniels. I don't know what McDaniels thinks is the ideal place for him, but I'd like the fit there.
That was my thought too.
But the reality is it'll be Mac.
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This Steelers / Cowboys game is by far the best game of the year.
There have been some really amazing games this season. and this is certainly one of them.
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There have been some really amazing games this season. and this is certainly one of them.
Pats/Seahawks was pretty good too
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Glad it's basketball season so I can stop paying attention.
On the long escalator ride down from the cheap seats to ground level after watching my Panthers blow a 17-0 lead to lose to the Chiefs, I turned to my wife and said:
"Well, two words summarize how I feel right now: Basketball. Season."
I just finished my practice plan for the team I coach in preparation for our game tomorrow. I'm looking forward to watching MU tonight. The Hornets are decent this season. I start reffing youth basketball on Saturday.
I'm all hoops all the time now.
(Or at least I will be until the Panthers finish with 7 straight wins to roll into the playoffs - ha!)
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That was my thought too.
But the reality is it'll be Mac.
Unfortunately you are correct. McCarthy should go, but Murphy isn't going to pay, what $10 mil, for McCarthy to sit in a tollbooth somewhere and pay a new coach $5-6 mil. McCarthy and Ted are here until 2019 and then we'll start over....likely with a new QB as well.
What a waste.
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"Same Old Jay" made his triumphant return to the Bears yesterday. The team is obviously done with Cutler but the most frustrating part, possibly of the whole Bears' season, is that they have no one else to even throw out there. Matt Barkley is what he is - a journeyman back-up.
Ideally there'd be someone, even a late round pick, to send out there to see what he can do...even if it's throw picks and lead 3-and-outs at least you're attempting to look at the future. For what it's worth right now, I think the Bears should start Barkley from here on out. Worst-case: he plays like Matt Barkley. Best-case: he proves worthy to keep around as a potential starter in case the franchise QB isn't quite ready yet (this is assuming the Bears draft a potential franchise QB).
I'd also like to vote for shutting down Kyle Long for the rest of the season (regardless of the prognosis on his ankle). He's a gamer and obviously won't be too keen on that idea, but let him get healthy and ready to go for 2017.
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"Same Old Jay" made his triumphant return to the Bears yesterday. The team is obviously done with Cutler but the most frustrating part, possibly of the whole Bears' season, is that they have no one else to even throw out there. Matt Barkley is what he is - a journeyman back-up.
Ideally there'd be someone, even a late round pick, to send out there to see what he can do...even if it's throw picks and lead 3-and-outs at least you're attempting to look at the future. For what it's worth right now, I think the Bears should start Barkley from here on out. Worst-case: he plays like Matt Barkley. Best-case: he proves worthy to keep around as a potential starter in case the franchise QB isn't quite ready yet (this is assuming the Bears draft a potential franchise QB).
I'd also like to vote for shutting down Kyle Long for the rest of the season (regardless of the prognosis on his ankle). He's a gamer and obviously won't be too keen on that idea, but let him get healthy and ready to go for 2017.
I saw the highlight of one of Jay's throws yesterday and my thought was this: how can a team playing in their white uniforms have their entire shoulders be their secondary/dark colors? When you're a quarterback with a line in front of you, etc. all you might see is dark shoulders and a dark helmet. While you obviously should know where your WRs should be, it still might throw you off just enough to at least catch a QBs eyes for a tenth of a second and all of a sudden miss on looking where he should be looking or whatever. I personally just wonder how you can let that much of a team's jersey be dark when they're wearing white uniforms.
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Unfortunately you are correct. McCarthy should go, but Murphy isn't going to pay, what $10 mil, for McCarthy to sit in a tollbooth somewhere and pay a new coach $5-6 mil. McCarthy and Ted are here until 2019 and then we'll start over....likely with a new QB as well.
What a waste.
They are signed through 2018. I have said this before, but I think they will get 2017, and if more of the same continues, both will be bought out with a year remaining. The Packers have $275 million in reserve and made nearly $50 million in profit next year. They have the money.
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They are signed through 2018. I have said this before, but I think they will get 2017, and if more of the same continues, both will be bought out with a year remaining. The Packers have $275 million in reserve and made nearly $50 million in profit next year. They have the money.
Having and willing to spend are two different things.
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Alshon's been working out with Arrieta I see.
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Alshon's been working out with Arrieta I see.
Rumor is that Alshon borrowed some urine from Clay Matthews so that he could fail a test and not be subjected to playing for this sorry team for the next 4 weeks ;)
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Rumor is that Alshon borrowed some urine from Clay Matthews so that he could fail a test and not be subjected to playing for this sorry team for the next 4 weeks ;)
But Clay didn't need it for the exact same reason because he has the built in excuse of, "My hammy hurts!"
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I don't even know what to say about the Bears any more. From top down, organization and team just flat out suck. And they won't be terrible enough to be worse than the Niners. I hate being a fan of this team.
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I don't even know what to say about the Bears any more. From top down, organization and team just flat out suck. And they won't be terrible enough to be worse than the Niners. I hate being a fan of this team.
Are they hiring yet another consultant to hire yet another GM who they will not let hire their own coach? Has Pace really been that bad?
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Are they hiring yet another consultant to hire yet another GM who they will not let hire their own coach? Has Pace really been that bad?
I don't know exactly what that consultant is doing to be honest. I don't know if it's business operations or football operations. I don't know if Pace is that bad, but he's not the main problem. There's an accountant running the organization, owned by a family that simply doesn't have the know how to run an NFL franchise, despite being the grandkids of the founding father of the modern NFL. It's an absolute clown show. Every 10 years they luck into a playoff birth.
It's not "if" the family will sell, it's "when". If they're waiting for estate tax reform to happen, hopefully the new administration spearheads it soon (if you're a Bears fan).
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They should look at Mike McCarthy. He's a highly successful NFL head coach.
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Are they hiring yet another consultant to hire yet another GM who they will not let hire their own coach? Has Pace really been that bad?
For a team that desperately needs a QB for the future, he has drafted zero QBs to try to develop in the two years he has been there. He drafted Kwiatkowski (an ILB after signing two FA ILBs), plus Bush and Hall in the 4th round rather than looking for a future QB - maybe a Dak Prescott?
Also, all of the stories about Fox trying to solidify and increase his power within the organization make it look like he doesn't have a lot of confidence in Pace.
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For a team that desperately needs a QB for the future, he has drafted zero QBs to try to develop in the two years he has been there. He drafted Kwiatkowski (an ILB after signing two FA ILBs), plus Bush and Hall in the 4th round rather than looking for a future QB - maybe a Dak Prescott?
Also, all of the stories about Fox trying to solidify and increase his power within the organization make it look like he doesn't have a lot of confidence in Pace.
It's easy to second guess not taking Prescott in the 4th Round (I've done it), but every other team passed over him multiple times as well. Even if the Bears weren't sold on Prescott as an NFL QB, it's worth taking a shot with a QB in the late rounds. At pick #185, the Bears took DeAndre Houston-Carson from W&M - the third DB they took in the draft. Brandon Allen, Nate Sudfeld, Jake Rudock, Jeff Driskel and Brandon Doughty were all drafted after that and Trevone Boykin (undrafted) was also available. Don't get me wrong, none of those guys look to be NFL starting-caliber QBs and none have set the world on fire in their limited opportunities, but the Bears would be just as well off, if not better off, being able to throw one of those players into the mix at this point to see what he can do. Cutler is a lame duck QB. There is no benefit to having him play the next 7 games of the season. None. Unfortunately, the only alternative is Matt Barkley and he is what he is.
The Bears' post-Emery issues began when they hired a young GM to rebuild the team and then forced him to hire a 60-year-old "win now" head coach. When the coach and GM aren't on the same page immediately out of the gate, that has disaster written all over it.
Personally, I'd like to see the team fire John Fox and give Pace a chance to run the show. I don't think Fox is a bad coach - he's just a bad fit for this team. It'd be nice if the Bears could bring in a young, offensive-minded coach to come in with the (potential) franchise QB they'll take in the 2017 Draft. Pete Carmichael Jr. is the first name that comes to mind. He's only 45 and has been the OC in New Orleans (where Pace came from) since 2009. He actually interviewed with the Bears before they hired Trestman. Another option would be Jim Harbaugh but I don't see the Bears ponying up the kind of cash it would take to bring him back to Chicago and who knows what his interest would be anyway.
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Just 'Queens being 'Queens.
Haven't we had enough misogyny the last few months?
Watch out for the Falcons in the playoffs. They are not championship material, but they type of team that would give Dallas fits.
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Packers picked up Christine Michael off waivers.
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Vikes game closer than I thought. Patterson just ran the 2nd half opener back. Now up by 10. Plenty of time to blow this lead.
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Ton of bad calls going Vikes way.
JB, Queens to Super Bowl????
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Trying their best to piss this one away.
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Lions. 10 games, 10 games decided by 7 points or less.
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Early game on Thursday might actually have meaning.
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Ton of bad calls going Vikes way.
JB, Queens to Super Bowl????
#donedeal
Nice to see the little Lions give NFC North folks a hope the Vikings don't easily Waltz to yet another division championship. SKOL VIKINGS!
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Maybe Janis finally gets cut.
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Hilarious. Special teams continues to be absolutely horrendous. So logically the Packers solution is to fire the special teams coach and promote the assistant. That'll do the job.
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Hey I have an idea! Every 3rd and medium let's bring house and leave the middle of the field wide open to let Crowder or Jackson just sprint right by an ILB for 50 yards!
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If they allow Dom on the flight home, it should be for the sole intent of throwing him out from 20k. Yes, we're horrendously hurt, but just complete and utter mismanagement with respect to the talent he has available
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Maybe firing Capers in season doesn't matter anymore, but this is embarrassing, just let the guy go and move on to next season.
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Maybe firing Capers in season doesn't matter anymore, but this is embarrassing, just let the guy go and move on to next season.
No illusion that this season is salvageable, but riding it out to the end sends the wrong message, imo
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Hey I have an idea! Every 3rd and medium let's bring house and leave the middle of the field wide open to let Crowder or Jackson just sprint right by an ILB for 50 yards!
You're too late, Wades. Capers thought of that weeks ago.
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Jerrell Freeman suspended four games for violating NFL policy on performance enhancing substances.
The train-wreck continues for my Bears.
I seriously wonder between the crazy amount of injuries and suspensions, who the Bears are going to be lining up the next few weeks. Its going to look like the fourth preseason game out there.
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Romo to the Bears in 2017
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Jerrell Freeman suspended four games for violating NFL policy on performance enhancing substances.
The train-wreck continues for my Bears.
I seriously wonder between the crazy amount of injuries and suspensions, who the Bears are going to be lining up the next few weeks. Its going to look like the fourth preseason game out there.
Since AR isn't really a leader, maybe GB will jettison him and the Bears can pick him up. ::)
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Romo to the Bears in 2017
That actually wouldn't surprise me since Pace overlapped with Romo at EIU.
I'm not sure it would make sense or be a smart move, but it wouldn't surprise me.
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Jerrell Freeman suspended four games for violating NFL policy on performance enhancing substances.
The train-wreck continues for my Bears.
I seriously wonder between the crazy amount of injuries and suspensions, who the Bears are going to be lining up the next few weeks. Its going to look like the fourth preseason game out there.
Strength & Conditioning Coaches should be getting their resumes in order.
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Since AR isn't really a leader, maybe GB will jettison him and the Bears can pick him up. ::)
Haha, that thread is ridiculous.
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I'm not sure it would make sense or be a smart move, but it wouldn't surprise me.
It would be brutal. In his last 6 games played (including the preseason), he has broken 3 bones. And, that's behind the best line in football.
Tony needs to hang it up.
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Matt Barkley time!
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-jay-cutler-bears-20161121-story.html
What a day!
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This is all great news for the Bears season...seriously. They have to lose out
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This is all great news for the Bears season...seriously. They have to lose out
I agree. I believe losing out would guarantee at least the second pick.
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Not sure this move helps the Bears lose out...
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Tower
Michael Jordan was a leader. I have seen and heard Rodgers compared to Jordan and it makes me fall off my chair laughing and I am diehard Packer fan.
I'll take Jordan's record over Rodgers everyday of the week. I love parades and home NFC Championship games, both lacking in Titletown.
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Not sure this move helps the Bears lose out...
Matt. Barkley.
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Tower
Michael Jordan was a leader. I have seen and heard Rodgers compared to Jordan and it makes me fall off my chair laughing and I am diehard Packer fan.
I'll take Jordan's record over Rodgers everyday of the week. I love parades and home NFC Championship games, both lacking in Titletown.
Are you saying the king has no clothes?
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I agree. I believe losing out would guarantee at least the second pick.
John Fox is quite adept at throwing a season. It worked in Charlotte, and resulted in the Panthers getting Cam. Of course, it also resulted in Fox having to wave bye-bye to NC. But he keeps getting hired. He's the classic old-boys'-network retread who will always have a job.
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Prior to the Bears, he has been pretty successful. The problem in this case is that Ernie Acorsi was the consultant the Bears hired to fix the problems, and he just made it worse by forcing a coach on a new GM. That simply doesn't work. Let the GM hire the coach.
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Detroit better so far.
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Lions 2 game lead in North.
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Another game, another 4th quarter deficit. Not really good, but good enough
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Barkley > Cutler
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If the Bears were smart the team would "suspend" Alshon for the rest of the season after his NFL suspension was up.
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If the Bears were smart the team would "suspend" Alshon for the rest of the season after his NFL suspension was up.
Because the one thing the Bears have is a bunch of sure-handed receivers.
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Because the one thing the Bears have is a bunch of sure-handed receivers.
That's the point, I sure as hell don't want the Bears winning another game for the rest of the year.
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Russell Wilson has 3 completions through the first half and one drive, netting one total passing yard. The NFC is such a joke.
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Carolina v Oakland is good game so far.
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Barkley > Cutler
Only if the Bears are looking to lose out.
I'll admit, Barkley wasn't as bad as I thought he might be. He wasn't that good either. The first INT wasn't entirely his fault as the LB made a better play on the ball than the TE. The second INT was brutal though. He also spiked a few screen passes that had potential. In the end, he picked apart a bad secondary while it was playing a lot of prevent D. That said, he could prove to be a viable back-up for the team or possibly even the starter going into next season if they draft a QB highly but don't want to throw him in right away.
From what's been reported, the Bears aren't enamored with any QBs in the upcoming draft and it could end up being Cutler under center again next season.
Cue overplayed jokes from GB fans about how much they hope Cutler is back...
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From what's been reported, the Bears aren't enamored with any QBs in the upcoming draft and it could end up being Cutler under center again next season.
This is why you can't have any faith in this organization. In a QB driven league, they are pathetically prepared. The last time the Bears drafted a QB before the 6th round?...Kyle f'ing Orton, 12 drafts ago. They drafted 1 QB in the last 5 years, perma practice squad stand in David Fales, in the 6th. Its like after LeFevour and Enderle didn't turn out to be 6th round HOF players like Brady, the Bears decided they were just good with Cutler being backed up by scrub journeymen.
Not even revisionist history to see a guy like Prescott being a stud, but players like Connor Cook, Kevin Hogan, Jacoby Brissett, Bryce Petty, Hundley, and Simien went in the 3rd-6th rounds in the last 2 drafts. They won't all be All-Pros, but you at least have to give someone a shot. The Bears are gonna the wallflowers refusing to dance with anyone cause they can't waltz with a VS model.
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This is why you can't have any faith in this organization. In a QB driven league, they are pathetically prepared. The last time the Bears drafted a QB before the 6th round?...Kyle f'ing Orton, 12 drafts ago. They drafted 1 QB in the last 5 years, perma practice squad stand in David Fales, in the 6th. Its like after LeFevour and Enderle didn't turn out to be 6th round HOF players like Brady, the Bears decided they were just good with Cutler being backed up by scrub journeymen.
Not even revisionist history to see a guy like Prescott being a stud, but players like Connor Cook, Kevin Hogan, Jacoby Brissett, Bryce Petty, Hundley, and Simien went in the 3rd-6th rounds in the last 2 drafts. They won't all be All-Pros, but you at least have to give someone a shot. The Bears are gonna the wallflowers refusing to dance with anyone cause they can't waltz with a VS model.
I can go both ways on this. It does make sense for a team to have a young QB who could get some snaps if/when the team is out of it and looking toward next season.
At the same time, most QBs drafted are a wasted pick. How many QBs drafted after Rounds 1-2 go on to have even moderately productive careers? Teams either have a franchise QB or they don't. The Bears could take Trubisky or Watson or Kaaya or some other QB with a top 5 pick, but if they don't think any of those guys are a franchise QB, they should take a player at a different position. In the later rounds, if a team is underwhelmed with the QBs in the draft class, there's no pointing in taking one just for the sake of taking a QB. If the Bears were getting a look at Connor Cook or Brett Hundley over these next few weeks, would that really be all that different than getting a look at Matt Barkley? None of those guys are going to be difference-makers for the franchise. A team is significantly more likely to get a decent contribution from a DB, OL, etc in the 4th Round as opposed to a QB, especially for a team like the Bears who basically need help across the board.
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(clipped)... a team like the Bears who basically need help across the board.
As a Bears fan it is very scary to look at how many positions of need there are on this team. Especially considering we have been picking in the top 1/2 of the draft for what, 6 years now?
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As a Bears fan it is very scary to look at how many positions of need there are on this team. Especially considering we have been picking in the top 1/2 of the draft for what, 6 years now?
I still stand by my very initial assessment that Kevin White was a god awful draft pick.
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As a Bears fan it is very scary to look at how many positions of need there are on this team. Especially considering we have been picking in the top 1/2 of the draft for what, 6 years now?
There are 10 players remaining on the roster from Emery's 3 draft classes (2012-14), Jeffery being the only one from the 2012 Draft. Jeffery and Long being the only two who have had a significant impact. O'Donnell has been a solid punter and Leno has been adequate, at best, at LT.
In addition, the Bears traded up to get Jeffery when they likely didn't have to and they took Kyle Long at #20 when he almost definitely would have been available for them in the 2nd Round at 50. He also traded two 3rd Round picks for Brandon Marshall, who was about to be released by Miami. Emery's good always seemed to come with some bad.
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I still stand by my very initial assessment that Kevin White was a god awful draft pick.
Vic Beasley - who was my preferred pick and went 1 slot after White - has 9.5 sacks this season. Just saying ;)
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At the same time, most QBs drafted are a wasted pick. How many QBs drafted after Rounds 1-2 go on to have even moderately productive careers?
That comment makes no sense. Every team needs a QB. the Bears just put their heads in the sand because there is no sure thinbg. And then they draft guys like Kevin White, McCleelan, Carimi, Chris Williams, etc in the 1st round.
Every pick is a crapshoot. You have to draft a QB and you need to do it early.
There is only 1 good QB drafted in the 2nd round. Only 1 good QB from the 3rd round. And both of those only fell from the 1st round because of their height - not a lack of talent. 2 from the 4th and only one better than bad QB after that.
Yeah, it is a crapshoot - but one the bears have made the incredibly stupid decision to totally avoid. And it appears they will continue that trend.
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That comment makes no sense. Every team needs a QB. the Bears just put their heads in the sand because there is no sure thinbg. And then they draft guys like Kevin White, McCleelan, Carimi, Chris Williams, etc in the 1st round.
Every pick is a crapshoot. You have to draft a QB and you need to do it early.
There is only 1 good QB drafted in the 2nd round. Only 1 good QB from the 3rd round. And both of those only fell from the 1st round because of their height - not a lack of talent. 2 from the 4th and only one better than bad QB after that.
Yeah, it is a crapshoot - but one the bears have made the incredibly stupid decision to totally avoid. And it appears they will continue that trend.
I don't understand drafting a QB for the sake of drafting a QB. A QB is either a franchise QB or he's not. Do you take your highest graded QB in the 3rd Round and just hope for the best or do you wait to find a guy who you think can lead your franchise to a run of sustained success? What's the point in taking a QB in the 4th Round if you think there are better players available that would fill a bigger need?
What QB did you want the Bears to draft at #7 in 2015? If they had a legit shot at trading up for Mariota, I would have been all for it. Other than that, there was nothing there.
What about at #9 (or 11) in 2016? Would you rather have Paxton Lynch instead of Leonard Floyd? If you believe Lynch is a franchise QB, I'd have no problem making that swap. What about Cody Kessler over Jonathan Bullard? Kevin Hogan instead of Jordan Howard?
Assuming the Bears get a top 5 pick in 2017, should they take the top QB available even if they don't think he's "franchise QB" material and they have other players graded significantly higher?
EDIT: Admittedly, I was on the other side of this debate a few weeks ago. After thinking more about it though, there's really no difference in my mind between sending a young journeyman out there (like Barkley) and sending a rookie 3rd-6th round pick out there. The odds of that QB becoming "the man" are pretty slim, yet the signing of Barkley didn't cost them a chance to draft a contributor.
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I think its partially cause the Bears made some questionable picks in middle rounds. I'm not advocating for them to have moved around for guys like Mariota or Paxton Lynch. I'm just saying over the last 5 years, they never moved on a potential contributor at the QB position in middle rounds. And its not like they were stacking with great players at other positions.
And the difference for me, with a guy like Cook or Hogan or even Kessler, there is still some potential upside. Barkley, you know what you've got. He had shots in Philadelphia and Arizona and was just eh. Not to mention he's a guy who was once talked about as a first round pick, albeit briefly, early on in his USC career and then has progressively been downgraded the more people get a look at him.
TLDR, the Bears front office has drafted like garbage for the better part of a decade, and QB depth is just one piece of that.
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I think its partially cause the Bears made some questionable picks in middle rounds. I'm not advocating for them to have moved around for guys like Mariota or Paxton Lynch. I'm just saying over the last 5 years, they never moved on a potential contributor at the QB position in middle rounds. And its not like they were stacking with great players at other positions.
And the difference for me, with a guy like Cook or Hogan or even Kessler, there is still some potential upside. Barkley, you know what you've got. He had shots in Philadelphia and Arizona and was just eh. Not to mention he's a guy who was once talked about as a first round pick, albeit briefly, early on in his USC career and then has progressively been downgraded the more people get a look at him.
TLDR, the Bears front office has drafted like garbage for the better part of a decade, and QB depth is just one piece of that.
This is far more important than the Bears' QB draft strategy
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I'm still a big fan of Deshaun Watson. I fully expect the Bears to get the number 2 pick and hope Watson is the guy, or Peppers of the Browns don't take him.
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Can Chuck take the suit off and put on a Packers uniform?
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Offense looks good.
You would think there would come some point where Mac has seen his defense isn't good enough to trust no matter what the down and distance is to give the other team free timeouts at the end of the half. I can't remember the last time the Packers haven't given up points doing that, and it seems like they do it every game.
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Offense looks good.
You would think there would come some point where Mac has seen his defense isn't good enough to trust no matter what the down and distance is to give the other team free timeouts at the end of the half. I can't remember the last time the Packers haven't given up points doing that, and it seems like they do it every game.
We saw a lot of new sets tonite for GB. Why did it take McCarthy this long to try something a little bit different.
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So, reports of AR's demise are greatly exaggerated?
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So, reports of AR's demise are greatly exaggerated?
They've been greatly exaggerated for at least 5 weeks now. AR hasn't been the problem it's been injuries and offensive/defensive game plans.
They actually controlled time of possession last night which shortened the game which limited how much the defense was exposed. That plus a single take away made all the difference. Wildly under reported in this whole stink is how bad the defense has been at creating turnovers.
Lastly, I still don't know why teams aren't hiring a smart person who's played a lot of Madden to manage time outs and challenges for these coaches. McCarthy twice used timeouts that resulted in either no opportunity for GB to score or gave the Eagles an opportunity to score against a porous defense. Pederson channeled his inner Andy Reid on a 2 yard challenge. These are professionals that make millions of dollars but can't be trusted with challenges and time outs.
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We saw a lot of new sets tonite for GB. Why did it take McCarthy this long to try something a little bit different.
The inside RO with an outside option on 3rd and 3 was a thing of beauty...has he spent the last 4 weeks drawing that one play up?
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They've been greatly exaggerated for at least 5 weeks now. AR hasn't been the problem it's been injuries and offensive/defensive game plans.
They actually controlled time of possession last night which shortened the game which limited how much the defense was exposed. That plus a single take away made all the difference. Wildly under reported in this whole stink is how bad the defense has been at creating turnovers.
Lastly, I still don't know why teams aren't hiring a smart person who's played a lot of Madden to manage time outs and challenges for these coaches. McCarthy twice used timeouts that resulted in either no opportunity for GB to score or gave the Eagles an opportunity to score against a porous defense. Pederson channeled his inner Andy Reid on a 2 yard challenge. These are professionals that make millions of dollars but can't be trusted with challenges and time outs.
Aaron Rodgers was pretty bad at the start of the season (and for the second half of last season) while the defense was still playing well enough to get by.
But that doesn't mean Aaron Rodgers isn't a HOFer, is over the hill, isn't a "natural born winner," or any of the ridiculous things that have been said about him this season. He went through a rough stretch of what amounted to roughly one full season. Those things happen.
He's a sure fire, first ballot HOFer, without question. And he certainly still has it.
It's going to be an interesting last five weeks of the season. For as bad as the Packers have been, they have a relatively easy stretch to close out the season, with home games against Houston, Seattle, and Minnesota (all teams that could certainly beat the Packers, but not teams that are lighting up the scoreboard, which are the teams that worry me as Packer fans) and road games against Chicago and Detroit. Detroit goes to the Saints, Giants, and Cowboys and hosts the Packers and Bears. I think there's at least 3 losses in there, with the possibility of 4. Minnesota hosts the Cowboys, Bears, and Colts and goes to the Packers and Jags. I see 2 more losses there. There could be a 3 way tie at the top, and the Packers may win that based on division record.
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I can go both ways on this. It does make sense for a team to have a young QB who could get some snaps if/when the team is out of it and looking toward next season.
At the same time, most QBs drafted are a wasted pick. How many QBs drafted after Rounds 1-2 go on to have even moderately productive careers? Teams either have a franchise QB or they don't. The Bears could take Trubisky or Watson or Kaaya or some other QB with a top 5 pick, but if they don't think any of those guys are a franchise QB, they should take a player at a different position. In the later rounds, if a team is underwhelmed with the QBs in the draft class, there's no pointing in taking one just for the sake of taking a QB. If the Bears were getting a look at Connor Cook or Brett Hundley over these next few weeks, would that really be all that different than getting a look at Matt Barkley? None of those guys are going to be difference-makers for the franchise. A team is significantly more likely to get a decent contribution from a DB, OL, etc in the 4th Round as opposed to a QB, especially for a team like the Bears who basically need help across the board.
I agree: Don't reach with a top-5 pick for a QB you are not 99.9% sure about.
I also agree that a team shouldn't draft a QB just for the sake of drafting a QB. A team should scout its balls off and find good QB prospects to take in the middle to late rounds. Maybe a guy has skills and smarts but is considered a little too small (Russell Wilson). Maybe a guy has promise but made an off-the-field mistake that hurts his status (Prescott). Maybe a guy was considered only "competent and boring" in college but had some NFL skills (Brady). Drug rumors dropped Marino to the end of the first round. Tiny stature dropped Brees out of the first round. Etc, etc, etc.
Those are the outliers, of course. For every Brady, there are dozens upon dozens of busts. But teams DO find these prospects. It happens every couple/few drafts that a non-1st rounder is taken who becomes a good NFL QB. Some even become great!
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They've been greatly exaggerated for at least 5 weeks now. AR hasn't been the problem it's been injuries and offensive/defensive game plans.
They actually controlled time of possession last night which shortened the game which limited how much the defense was exposed. That plus a single take away made all the difference. Wildly under reported in this whole stink is how bad the defense has been at creating turnovers.
Lastly, I still don't know why teams aren't hiring a smart person who's played a lot of Madden to manage time outs and challenges for these coaches. McCarthy twice used timeouts that resulted in either no opportunity for GB to score or gave the Eagles an opportunity to score against a porous defense. Pederson channeled his inner Andy Reid on a 2 yard challenge. These are professionals that make millions of dollars but can't be trusted with challenges and time outs.
The 2 yard challenge was hilarious. How does that happen? The timeouts bothered me a little less. At least with the first you could see what they were going for, which has often worked for them in past years. Probably time to hang up that end of half strategy, given our defense. And the 4th down timeout was weird, but I was feeling good enough about the night by then that I could let it go. Crazy how winning makes everything better.
Loved the new look offense last night. Let's keep that up.
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Was it me or was Peppers playing a lot more snaps last night than he has in a long time?
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Was it me or was Peppers playing a lot more snaps last night than he has in a long time?
Snap counts aren't published yet, but his season high is 50 against Indy. Average is 30.
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I can't believe I am doing this, but I just looked up the Lions schedule and see they have some losable games coming up at New Orleans, at New York Giants and at Dallas.
Why? Because if the Packers win out, they will be ahead of Minnesota for sure based on the record in the division tie-breaker. They would just need the Lions to lose one additional game.
THERE'S A CHANCE!!!!
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Was it me or was Peppers playing a lot more snaps last night than he has in a long time?
He is because Clay had to play inside because we have no depth at ILB. Clay with one hammy and one shoulder is apparently better inside than anyone we have left on the roster.
Not sure how you can play a 3-4 defense with only two serviceable ILBs on the roster (Ryan and Martinez). Thomas is a specialist at best.
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The 2 yard challenge was hilarious. How does that happen? The timeouts bothered me a little less. At least with the first you could see what they were going for, which has often worked for them in past years. Probably time to hang up that end of half strategy, given our defense. And the 4th down timeout was weird, but I was feeling good enough about the night by then that I could let it go. Crazy how winning makes everything better.
Loved the new look offense last night. Let's keep that up.
Maybe I'm being a negative Ned, but I can't remember a single time that the timeouts with a team backed-up at half time strategy has worked out that the Packers got the ball back and scored. I've seen it not result in the other team getting points, but thats a low bar.
We need a stat nerd on this immediately.
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I can't believe I am doing this, but I just looked up the Lions schedule and see they have some losable games coming up at New Orleans, at New York Giants and at Dallas.
Why? Because if the Packers win out, they will be ahead of Minnesota for sure based on the record in the division tie-breaker. They would just need the Lions to lose one additional game.
THERE'S A CHANCE!!!!
I actually think the Packers can afford a loss to either Houston or Seattle and still get into the Playoffs. If the Packers were to beat both the Vikings and the Lions I don't see either of those 2 teams having any less than 7 losses, and the Packers would almost surely have the tiebreaker on both, being 2-0 against Detroit and 1-1 against the Vikings but having the best record within the division.
Let's say the Packers do beat the Lions. That means to finish with less than 7 losses, the Lions would have to win 2 of at NYG, at Dallas, and at NO. That's tough.
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I agree: Don't reach with a top-5 pick for a QB you are not 99.9% sure about.
I also agree that a team shouldn't draft a QB just for the sake of drafting a QB. A team should scout its balls off and find good QB prospects to take in the middle to late rounds. Maybe a guy has skills and smarts but is considered a little too small (Russell Wilson). Maybe a guy has promise but made an off-the-field mistake that hurts his status (Prescott). Maybe a guy was considered only "competent and boring" in college but had some NFL skills (Brady). Drug rumors dropped Marino to the end of the first round. Tiny stature dropped Brees out of the first round. Etc, etc, etc.
Those are the outliers, of course. For every Brady, there are dozens upon dozens of busts. But teams DO find these prospects. It happens every couple/few drafts that a non-1st rounder is taken who becomes a good NFL QB. Some even become great!
Of course, the other factor to success/failure is team make-up. Prescott walked into a all-pro rookie RB and an all-pro offensive line with a top 5 WR. If the Browns take Prescott, I don't think he would have had the same year or career. Same with Wilson in Seattle except it was more about his defense being outstanding. Blake Bortles may have been an all-pro in those or similar situations, but instead he'll flounder in Jacksonville for a couple more years before becoming a career back-up.
So, so many factors go into success/failure of a QB. Most/many outside of their control.
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A year ago, there was less contact with Aaron Rodgers facemask on the next to last play against Detroit than there was on Bradford's head on that 2 pt conversion. If I was a Minnesota fan, I would be torqued. If I was an NFL conspiracy theorist, here would be one more piece of evidence.
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I actually think the Packers can afford a loss to either Houston or Seattle and still get into the Playoffs. If the Packers were to beat both the Vikings and the Lions I don't see either of those 2 teams having any less than 7 losses, and the Packers would almost surely have the tiebreaker on both, being 2-0 against Detroit and 1-1 against the Vikings but having the best record within the division.
Let's say the Packers do beat the Lions. That means to finish with less than 7 losses, the Lions would have to win 2 of at NYG, at Dallas, and at NO. That's tough.
No one ever goes broke betting against the Lions.
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A year ago, there was less contact with Aaron Rodgers facemask on the next to last play against Detroit than there was on Bradford's head on that 2 pt conversion. If I was a Minnesota fan, I would be torqued. If I was an NFL conspiracy theorist, here would be one more piece of evidence.
I just think the ref didn't see it due to where he was standing and how the Cowboy hit his shoulder with the left arm. If the umpire was still behind the defensive line, that likely gets called.
And really any call that screws over the Vikings, no matter how unjust it is, is fine by me.
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A year ago, there was less contact with Aaron Rodgers facemask on the next to last play against Detroit than there was on Bradford's head on that 2 pt conversion. If I was a Minnesota fan, I would be torqued. If I was an NFL conspiracy theorist, here would be one more piece of evidence.
The NFL replay system needs an overhaul. Any clear-cut call that can easily be corrected should be reviewable. Obviously, they don't want to start reviewing subjective penalties like holding, PI, etc but when there are clear-cut rules like "You can't hit the QB in the head" and the QB blatantly gets hit in the head but no flag is thrown, it should be corrected. On the other hand, if a personal foul facemask penalty is called but there was no grasping of the facemask, the flag should be picked up.
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The NFL replay system needs an overhaul. Any clear-cut call that can easily be corrected should be reviewable. Obviously, they don't want to start reviewing subjective penalties like holding, PI, etc but when there are clear-cut rules like "You can't hit the QB in the head" and the QB blatantly gets hit in the head but no flag is thrown, it should be corrected. On the other hand, if a personal foul facemask penalty is called but there was no grasping of the facemask, the flag should be picked up.
Maybe instead of replay review, the replay official should be allowed to throw a flag within a certain amount of time after the end of the play for personal foul penalties. Say 20 seconds? And instead of it being reviewed, it should just be called.
I wouldn't want that for items like holding, pass interference, etc. But for clear personal fouls that the regular crew misses.
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And really any call that screws over the Vikings, no matter how unjust it is, is fine by me.
I don't mind that the Vikings lost. This just reinforces the conspiracy theory that there is a double standard in the NFL when it comes to close calls. I remember Suh getting flagged and fined for a two-handed push in Cutler's back while he was still upright and running with the ball past the line of scrimmage.
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Yeah I'm not going there. Suh is a moron.
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He is. And he has made several plays where he deserved to be fined and suspended. So let us take him out of the equation. If Rodgers or Brady had received a shot to the head like Bradford did under the same circumstances, would a penalty have been called?
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I don't mind that the Vikings lost. This just reinforces the conspiracy theory that there is a double standard in the NFL when it comes to close calls. I remember Suh getting flagged and fined for a two-handed push in Cutler's back while he was still upright and running with the ball past the line of scrimmage.
That play was similar to the phantom facemask call. It looked like it was a personal foul in real time (i.e. that he drilled him in the back of the head) but on a second viewing, he obviously didn't.
With all the technology out there, you'd think it wouldn't be too difficult for the officials in NY to notify the on-field refs and let them know that there was an obvious mistake.
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He is. And he has made several plays where he deserved to be fined and suspended. So let us take him out of the equation. If Rodgers or Brady had received a shot to the head like Bradford did under the same circumstances, would a penalty have been called?
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000305848/McClellin-called-for-roughing-Rodgers (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap2000000305848/McClellin-called-for-roughing-Rodgers)
http://thevikingage.com/2015/11/24/minnesota-vikings-aaron-rodgers-teddy-bridgewater/ (http://thevikingage.com/2015/11/24/minnesota-vikings-aaron-rodgers-teddy-bridgewater/)
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000460430/Freeman-called-for-roughing-the-passer-on-Brady (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000460430/Freeman-called-for-roughing-the-passer-on-Brady)
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He is. And he has made several plays where he deserved to be fined and suspended. So let us take him out of the equation. If Rodgers or Brady had received a shot to the head like Bradford did under the same circumstances, would a penalty have been called?
No because I think the referee just didn't see it.
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The fact that the call is being discussed, is the problem with the NFL.
After every play you are waiting to see if it actually counted.
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No because I think the referee just didn't see it.
Agreed.
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Packers have given up points in the last 2 minutes of the first half in every single game this year. That is horrific. Hopefully that ends today.
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8-4. First time all season without a fourth quarter deficit. First decided by more than 7. Stafford being kept on his feet.
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Vic Fangio rumor is pretty troubling to me, especially if Fox stays. I don't get why he would be let go, on my list of Bears problems, Fangio is maybe last on the list.
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Vic Fangio rumor is pretty troubling to me, especially if Fox stays. I don't get why he would be let go, on my list of Bears problems, Fangio is maybe last on the list.
I'd replace Fox and Loggains before Fangio. The D has gone from 31st pre-Fangio to 14th to 7th this season (yards allowed). Granted, they create very few TOs, primarily because there are no play-makers in the secondary, but they actually have a pass rush. Apparently Fox isn't a fan of Fangio's philosophy.
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Vic Fangio rumor is pretty troubling to me, especially if Fox stays. I don't get why he would be let go, on my list of Bears problems, Fangio is maybe last on the list.
Is he even on the list? I don't get this one at all. When you look at what he has done with the guys that are missing, it is baffling that there would be any heat on him.
crap, I would fire Fox and give Vic the head job before cutting him loose.
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Vic Fangio rumor is pretty troubling to me, especially if Fox stays. I don't get why he would be let go, on my list of Bears problems, Fangio is maybe last on the list.
This smells of chain of command issues that continue to plague the organization. Pace was required to work with Fox, and it sounds to me that Fox is creating fall guys to save his ass and selling it to ownership.
They should have just let Pace hire his guy from the beginning instead of listening to Acorsi who wanted his guy in there.
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This smells of chain of command issues that continue to plague the organization. Pace was required to work with Fox, and it sounds to me that Fox is creating fall guys to save his ass and selling it to ownership.
They should have just let Pace hire his guy from the beginning instead of listening to Acorsi who wanted his guy in there.
Agreed...or Emery should have listened to everyone around him and hired Bruce Arians in 2013.
Would anyone be surprised if the Bears beat the Lions this weekend? I mean, the Bears winning thus hurting their draft position and the 1st place Lions losing at home to an awful team just feels like something that would happen with these franchises, doesn't it?
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Agreed...or Emery should have listened to everyone around him and hired Bruce Arians in 2013.
Would anyone be surprised if the Bears beat the Lions this weekend? I mean, the Bears winning thus hurting their draft position and the 1st place Lions losing at home to an awful team just feels like something that would happen with these franchises, doesn't it?
To be fair, I think it's pretty widely known that the decision to not hire Arians was not Emery's decision, but ownerships decision. Something about Arians not wanting to do a mock press conference
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Agreed...or Emery should have listened to everyone around him and hired Bruce Arians in 2013.
Would anyone be surprised if the Bears beat the Lions this weekend? I mean, the Bears winning thus hurting their draft position and the 1st place Lions losing at home to an awful team just feels like something that would happen with these franchises, doesn't it?
I'd be very surprised if the Bears won this weekend. There should be enough game tape on Barkley by now, especially having played two of the worst pass defenses. I'd imagine 8 in the box regularly to stop Howard.
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It comes down to Detroit, not Chicago. If this really is a new day in Detroit, the Lions should win by 10. If it is the SOL, it can go either way. The fact that I am starting to feel optimism scares me.
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I'd be very surprised if the Bears won this weekend. There should be enough game tape on Barkley by now, especially having played two of the worst pass defenses. I'd imagine 8 in the box regularly to stop Howard.
You're putting too much thought into it ;)
The Bears would benefit from losing so naturally they'd win. The Lions would (obviously) benefit from winning so naturally they'd lose.
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You're putting too much thought into it ;)
The Bears would benefit from losing so naturally they'd win. The Lions would (obviously) benefit from winning so naturally they'd lose.
In 1997, the Bears tried their damnedest to lose to the equally awful Rams in the next-to-last game. Seriously. Wannstedt was quoted after the season as saying the Bears wanted to draft either Peyton Manning or Ryan Leaf. But no matter how hard they tried, they couldn't even get THAT right. They won 13-10 in a game that set football back about 40 years and, because of tiebreakers, they ended up with the No. 5 choice.
Now, they obviously dodged a bullet in Leaf. But they ended up taking Curtis P. Enis, who besides sucking also made an anti-Semitic remark to me during 1999 training camp. True story.
After he had addressed about a dozen reporters, another Jewish reporter and I looked at each other. She said, "Did he say what I think he said?" We listened to the tape and, sure enough, he did say: "Well, I have no problem being Jewish. I like to get money and make things happen." Yowsa!
Anyway, in addition to Manning and Leaf, Charles Woodson went the pick before the Bears took Enis. The next back drafted after Enis was Fred Taylor, who went on to rush for nearly 12,000 yards in a very productive career. A receiver by the name of Randy Moss also was drafted later, though he was toxic to most everybody. Others: Kyle Turley, Keith Brooking, Takeo Spikes, Vonnie Holliday, Alan Faneca, etc.
Unless a team is guaranteed a stud in the draft, trying to lose is rarely a good thing.
The Bears already are very good at losing. They don't need to try.
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New contender for worst call of the season against the Lions. Glasgow called for getting his face in the way of the linemans hands.
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New contender for worst call of the season against the Lions. Glasgow called for getting his face in the way of the linemans hands.
That was brutal...but then they got the make-up call on the 48-yard pass when they claimed a flag was for D holding but it was thrown toward the LOS as a hold was taking place and no DBs near by. Not to mention Boldin never actually caught that ball on the TD. It all evens out.
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Sutton playing lights out for Bears. Aaron Rodgers Packers leading rusher on the year. Time to put TT out to pasture.
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I turned to my wife after Detroit want up 13-3 and said that it was time to give up 14 quick points , setting up another fourth quarter comeback.
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Sutton playing lights out for Bears. Aaron Rodgers Packers leading rusher on the year. Time to put TT out to pasture.
Is Sitton really playing that well? I don't think the Packers have missed him all that much. Taylor seems to be playing well.
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He is playing very well. Bears # 8 in NFL rushing ypc at 4.4.
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Yeah but using team rushing stats as the only indicator of how one player is playing doesn't necessarily provide the answer. Lang and Tretter have both been hurt.
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And there is the second score. I wonder what bone Stafford broke in his hand?
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Sutton playing lights out for Bears. Aaron Rodgers Packers leading rusher on the year. Time to put TT out to pasture.
How many games has Sitton played in this year?
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And there is the second score. I wonder what bone Stafford broke in his hand?
Is it too early to put money on whatever team plays the Lions in their first playoff game? This is a BAD 10-win team.
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Agreed.
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The NFC Wild Card teams aren't a dangerous bunch though. Giants? Tampa? Redskins?
Seahawks and Cowboys are far and away the best teams in the conference.
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Someone in Bears management/ownership needs to get down to the sideline and tell Barkley to turn it over. Right now
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Someone in Bears management/ownership needs to get down to the sideline and tell Barkley to turn it over. Right now
Apparently only the o linemen got the memo.
By the way, the NFL needs to totally revamp PI. No one - players, coaches, officials - seems to know what they should be looking for. I understand that it's often an incredibly tough call to make but there's got to be some level of consistency.
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Yawn. ;D
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Yawn. ;D
Fun game...and everybody won ;)
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is there a good streaming site like justin.tv or something that works for multiple sports? Justin.tv is gone.
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is there a good streaming site like justin.tv or something that works for multiple sports? Justin.tv is gone.
batmanstream.com
other option is to go to reddit and search for "sport" stream. almost always gets positive results
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How many games has Sitton played in this year?
Not that it really matters, but PFF has Sitton graded as a top three LG this year.
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Is it too early to put money on whatever team plays the Lions in their first playoff game? This is a BAD 10-win team.
Rethinking this over shoveling. I think Detroit wins the home game against the Wild Card. There is no way they beat Dallas or Seattle on the road.
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#12's still got it, ai na?
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And there is the second score. I wonder what bone Stafford broke in his hand?
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18257782/detroit-lions-qb-matthew-stafford-pip-dislocation-torn-ligaments-middle-finger (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18257782/detroit-lions-qb-matthew-stafford-pip-dislocation-torn-ligaments-middle-finger)
Hope this doesn't affect him too much. Although I'm a Packer fan, Detroit has looked good this year, and they've had enough disappointments over the last 20 years that they deserve a year to celebrate.
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And there is the second score. I wonder what bone Stafford broke in his hand?
http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2016/12/11/detroit-lions-matthew-stafford-finger/95309750/
Dislocated middle finger and torn ligaments. Maybe. His passes after the injury were not tight spirals, lacked the customary zip, and seemed to come out with the nose down. I am guessing he will play through it. Dan Orlovsky starting against Dallas, NYG, and GB makes my stomach hurt.
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http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18257782/detroit-lions-qb-matthew-stafford-pip-dislocation-torn-ligaments-middle-finger (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18257782/detroit-lions-qb-matthew-stafford-pip-dislocation-torn-ligaments-middle-finger)
Hope this doesn't affect him too much. Although I'm a Packer fan, Detroit has looked good this year, and they've had enough disappointments over the last 20 years that they deserve a year to celebrate.
Dammit. Posted while I was typing.
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http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18257782/detroit-lions-qb-matthew-stafford-pip-dislocation-torn-ligaments-middle-finger (http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18257782/detroit-lions-qb-matthew-stafford-pip-dislocation-torn-ligaments-middle-finger)
Hope this doesn't affect him too much. Although I'm a Packer fan, Detroit has looked good this year, and they've had enough disappointments over the last 20 years that they deserve a year to celebrate.
Nah. Not instead of GB.
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Nah. Not instead of GB.
I'm ok with us just being a wild card and then winning the Super Bowl.
They (Detroit) deserve the division title and maybe playing for the NFC championship (unless of course they play GB before the title game).
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If Dallas wins tonight, Pack fans will have to cheer for the Lions next week to win.
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I'm ok with us just being a wild card and then winning the Super Bowl.
They (Detroit) deserve the division title and maybe playing for the NFC championship (unless of course they play GB before the title game).
Why do they "deserve" the division title?
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If Dallas wins tonight, Pack fans will have to cheer for the Lions next week to win.
While it would be preferable to have the Lions beat the Giants than lose to the Cowboys, I will take a loss next week.
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Why do they "deserve" the division title?
Poor choice of words, more just saying they have had a lot of misfortune and nothing to root for, them getting the division title (if it doesn't cost GB a playoff spot), would be something I wouldn't be upset about.
I've had a soft spot for Detroit because of Barry Sanders. I also do not view them in the same rivalry stance as I do the Bears and Vikings, both of them can rot in the NFL cellar.
Wild card or division title means nothing in terms of getting to the superbowl (unless you get a bye). Right now I'm just hoping the Pack can win out and get into the playoffs period.
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If Dallas wins tonight, Pack fans will have to cheer for the Lions next week to win.
Why? If NYG beats Detroit (assuming GB beats the Bears), GB controls their own destiny.
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While it would be preferable to have the Lions beat the Giants than lose to the Cowboys, I will take a loss next week.
For all intents and purposes, Pack has to win out, as the tiebreakers are not friendly to them unless they tie for the 6th seed with the Giants.
A Lions win next week and a Tampa loss almost assures the Lions would go to the playoffs. DET/NYG & TB/DAL are huge next week.
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Why? If NYG beats Detroit (assuming GB beats the Bears), GB controls their own destiny.
The Pack would have to win out, and I don't believe they will. Their best shot is the 6 seed.
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By the way, the NFL needs to totally revamp PI. No one - players, coaches, officials - seems to know what they should be looking for.
It's very frustrating as a fan. They look at replays from every angle in slo-mo and at regular speed to determine if a spot is correct by an inch ... but they don't have a CLUE what pass interference is. They ignore seemingly obvious PI calls and they call PI where it doesn't exist. And these are huge penalties, often dozens of yards at a time and always automatic first downs.
I'm not sure what the solution is, though. But that's why I don't get the big bucks.
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Detroit closes at Dallas and NYG and vs. GB. If they Packers beat them and finish with the same record wouldn't that give the Packers the division based on a better divisional record?
Packers should win at Chicago and home versus Vikings. Detroit should lose at least one of their 2 road games. That'd make a winner take all division matchup in Detroit week 17.
Gimme the Giants over the Lions as a Pack fan.
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It's very frustrating as a fan. They look at replays from every angle in slo-mo and at regular speed to determine if a spot is correct by an inch ... but they don't have a CLUE what pass interference is. They ignore seemingly obvious PI calls and they call PI where it doesn't exist. And these are huge penalties, often dozens of yards at a time and always automatic first downs.
I'm not sure what the solution is, though. But that's why I don't get the big bucks.
As much as I dislike the college game, they do have it right on pass interference. Simple 15 yard penalty instead of spot of the foul.
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That Giants win now all but eliminates a Pack WC chance, division or bust.
If I were a Pack fan, I'd be terrified of this coming Sunday's game at Chicago. There's a reason Vegas set this line at Pack -4.
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As much as I dislike the college game, they do have it right on pass interference. Simple 15 yard penalty instead of spot of the foul.
I thought this way for a while. But what's to stop a CB/S from intentionally messing with a WR on a deep pass then? "Oh, I can get beat for 50 yards or give up 15... hmm..."
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That Giants win now all but eliminates a Pack WC chance, division or bust.
If I were a Pack fan, I'd be terrified of this coming Sunday's game at Chicago. There's a reason Vegas set this line at Pack -4.
The Giants could easily lose all 3 games remaining or 2 of 3 games remaining and the Packers have the tiebreaker in them while currently 2 games back.
Tampa is a game up but could also easily lose all 3 games remaining or 2 of 3.
Packers beat Vikings and they're ahead of them. So jump 2 of Skins, Giants, and Tampa and that's a WC spot, with easily the easiest schedule remaining.
Lots of football to be played.
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The Giants could easily lose all 3 games remaining or 2 of 3 games remaining and the Packers have the tiebreaker in them while currently 2 games back.
Tampa is a game up but could also easily lose all 3 games remaining or 2 of 3.
Packers beat Vikings and they're ahead of them. So jump 2 of Skins, Giants, and Tampa and that's a WC spot, with easily the easiest schedule remaining.
Lots of football to be played.
The Vikings only shot of making the playoffs is to win the division. The Skins tie means no one can tie with them, and their tie came out of conference. Pack's common opponents and conference record hurt them in most three way tie splits. If the Pack wins out, nothing to worry about.
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Funny how the schedule worked out, having two hottest teams in NFC, both go on the road in Week 15 to face intraconference opponents at/near top of the NFC.
Bucs D is playing great, that'll be a really interesting game at Dallas. Lions just keep finding ways to win and get the Giants in a classic let down game spot.
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I have complete confidence in Detroit's ability to lose the last 3 and miss the playoffs.
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Detroit closes at Dallas and NYG and vs. GB. If they Packers beat them and finish with the same record wouldn't that give the Packers the division based on a better divisional record?
The Packers would have the division based on a 2-0 head to head record.
If the above occurs, and there is a three way tie, the Packers would win based on their division record.
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I thought this way for a while. But what's to stop a CB/S from intentionally messing with a WR on a deep pass then? "Oh, I can get beat for 50 yards or give up 15... hmm..."
Right. But that happens now with holding and illegal contact.
No other penalty assumes the outcome of a play like PI does. I have always thought the penalty is too harsh and that 15 yards would be better.
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Right. But that happens now with holding and illegal contact.
No other penalty assumes the outcome of a play like PI does. I have always thought the penalty is too harsh and that 15 yards would be better.
Grab a guy by the facemask, swing him around and throw him to the ground after the whistle: 15-yard penalty
QB badly underthrows a deep ball and the DB and WR collide: 50-yard penalty
Something doesn't makes sense here.
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I thought this way for a while. But what's to stop a CB/S from intentionally messing with a WR on a deep pass then? "Oh, I can get beat for 50 yards or give up 15... hmm..."
Nothing, I guess. But it works out OK in college. And 15 yards still is a big chunk.
A lineman can give the QB a cheap shot and knock him out of the game and only get 15 yards. I don't see pass interference as more serious than that.
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That Giants win now all but eliminates a Pack WC chance, division or bust.
If I were a Pack fan, I'd be terrified of this coming Sunday's game at Chicago. There's a reason Vegas set this line at Pack -4.
Matt Barkley.
If Aaron is healthy, make yourself a little money if the line stays there.
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Matt Barkley.
If Aaron is healthy, make yourself a little money if the line stays there.
Barkley hasn't been bad, I know I'm shocked. He certainly is not hurting the team.
The Pack should win, but I see Dish's point. The Bears d-line is solid and they will get after ARod.
I have to say, I feel Rodgers is better with his limited mobility. He gets the ball out much faster and doesn't try to extend plays. I thought part of the reason he was playing not up to his standards earlier this season was because he was trying to extend plays far too much and forcing balls deep down the field.
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To be clear, obviously the Packers are the better team.
But, this spot on Sunday screams tight game, potential upset. All the signs are right there.
-Pack coming off big win
-Off two straight home games
-Going on road (2-4) to division opponent
-Bears 2-0 vs division at home
-Alshon Jeffery back
-Special teams will be messy for both teams on bad field/below zero weather
If I'm wrong come 3:30 next Sunday I'll own it.
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To be clear, obviously the Packers are the better team.
But, this spot on Sunday screams tight game, potential upset. All the signs are right there.
-Pack coming off big win
-Off two straight home games
-Going on road (2-4) to division opponent
-Bears 2-0 vs division at home
-Alshon Jeffery back
-Special teams will be messy for both teams on bad field/below zero weather
If I'm wrong come 3:30 next Sunday I'll own it.
There's the Packers playing on the road and then there's the Packers playing at Soldier Field.
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Barkley hasn't been bad, I know I'm shocked. He certainly is not hurting the team.
The Pack should win, but I see Dish's point. The Bears d-line is solid and they will get after ARod.
I have to say, I feel Rodgers is better with his limited mobility. He gets the ball out much faster and doesn't try to extend plays. I thought part of the reason he was playing not up to his standards earlier this season was because he was trying to extend plays far too much and forcing balls deep down the field.
1. Barkley is also not helping the team.
2. No defensive line all year has gotten after Rodgers.
3. I agree. He is simply the best passer in the league when he stay in the pocket.
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1. Barkley is also not helping the team.
Which is why he's destined to be a career back-up. I in no way think he's the answer for the Bears at QB, but if not for several untimely drops, he could easily be 3-0 as the starter this season.
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To be clear, obviously the Packers are the better team.
But, this spot on Sunday screams tight game, potential upset. All the signs are right there.
-Pack coming off big win
-Off two straight home games
-Going on road (2-4) to division opponent
-Bears 2-0 vs division at home
-Alshon Jeffery back
-Special teams will be messy for both teams on bad field/below zero weather
If I'm wrong come 3:30 next Sunday I'll own it.
Your last point is the only one that makes sense to me. The other things don’t matter at this point in the season when you basically have to win every game. Maybe they matter in October, but not mid-December with a focused team. The bad weather will keep it close and low scoring.
The Packers offensive line has been incredible at giving Rodgers time. I don’t think the Bear’s pass rush will do what Seattle, Giants, Philly and others couldn’t.
I don’t buy that Rodgers injury makes him a better passer. His mobility out of the pocket and throwing on the run are a big part of his game. Losing it will matter.
I do think the Packers will win out. Bears, Vikings at home and Lions are not daunting. Lions will lose one or two of their next games and that’s what the Packers should hope for, their best shot is to win the north, but the wild card is still in play. Tampa or Atlanta could easily lose 1 or 2 more and if they do, that changes their division record and possibly common opponent record. As of now, yes they would hold the tie breaker edge over GB, but still too many things to sort out.
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I think this Sunday's game is the easiest for GB.
Minnesota is going to be very difficult. Everytime they talk about how Rogers hasn't lost a game in December in eight years (or something like that), I roll my eyes because he lost to Minnesota last year on the last day of the season. It just so happened to be January 3rd or something like that.
I think they will lose in Detroit regardless.
So I'm going 80% Pack this Sunday, 65% v. Minnesota, and 35% at Detroit. If I did my math right, that is about a 17% chance of winning out. Not good.
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That Giants win now all but eliminates a Pack WC chance, division or bust.
If I were a Pack fan, I'd be terrified of this coming Sunday's game at Chicago. There's a reason Vegas set this line at Pack -4.
I didn't read the rest of the thread, so I apologize if this has been answered. But this is false. If Tampa loses 1 game, the Packers control their destiny for the playoffs (WC + division) because the Giants/Lions and Giants/Skins are guaranteed to give the other a loss, and GB would win the TB with Tampa Bay on Strength of Victory, I believe.
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I didn't read the rest of the thread, so I apologize if this has been answered. But this is false. If Tampa loses 1 game, the Packers control their destiny for the playoffs (WC + division) because the Giants/Lions and Giants/Skins are guaranteed to give the other a loss, and GB would win the TB with Tampa Bay on Strength of Victory, I believe.
So you are telling me I need to route for Dallas and the Giants this weekend.....gross
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If the Packers win their next 2 (and I think they will) and the Lions lose one of their next 2 (and I think they will), I know who I'd be confident in in a winner take all game between the Lions-Packers/Stafford-Rodgers.
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I didn't read the rest of the thread, so I apologize if this has been answered. But this is false. If Tampa loses 1 game, the Packers control their destiny for the playoffs (WC + division) because the Giants/Lions and Giants/Skins are guaranteed to give the other a loss, and GB would win the TB with Tampa Bay on Strength of Victory, I believe.
A Tampa win over Dallas on Sunday would give them all tiebreakers over Green Bay.
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I didn't read the rest of the thread, so I apologize if this has been answered. But this is false. If Tampa loses 1 game, the Packers control their destiny for the playoffs (WC + division) because the Giants/Lions and Giants/Skins are guaranteed to give the other a loss, and GB would win the TB with Tampa Bay on Strength of Victory, I believe.
Tampa Bay will most likely own the tiebreaker against Green Bay based on common opponents. To control its own destiny, GB would need one of the following to happen:
1) A WAS loss and either a NYG loss or two TAM losses.
or
2) A DET loss.
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Tampa Bay will most likely own the tiebreaker against Green Bay based on common opponents. To control its own destiny, GB would need one of the following to happen:
1) A WAS loss and either a NYG loss or two TAM losses.
or
2) A DET loss.
How does the common games tiebreaker work? Tampa played the Bears once, we play them twice. The opposite thing happened for Atlanta. Are all of those games counted?
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How does the common games tiebreaker work? Tampa played the Bears once, we play them twice. The opposite thing happened for Atlanta. Are all of those games counted?
Sum up all wins and losses vs common opponents... team with the higher win pct in these games gets tiebreaker. If win pct in common games is equal, you move on to strength of victory (SOV) tiebreaker.
Caveat - The teams must have at least four games in common, not four common teams. But for simplicity's sake, consider GB/CHI/TAM as an example.
If TAM beats CHI and GB and CHI split, the TAM gets tiebreaker because 1-0 (1.000) is better than 1-1 (.500)
If TAM beats CHI and GB beats CHI twice, move to SOV
If TAM and CHI tie, and GB and CHI split, move to SOV.
EDIT: Previous version confused NFL with Big East tiebreakers... in NFL, win pct is determining factor, regardless of number of wins.
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How does the common games tiebreaker work? Tampa played the Bears once, we play them twice. The opposite thing happened for Atlanta. Are all of those games counted?
Those games would count. However, there need to be a minimum of 4 common opponent games for that tie-breaker to be used. I don't think that's the case with TB and GB (but I could be wrong on that).
Conference record comes before common opponents anyway. TB is currently 6-3, GB is 5-4.
If they finished tied in both overall and conference record, it would go to strength of victory (assuming they only had 3 common games).
Sum up all wins and losses vs common opponents... team with the higher win pct in these games gets tiebreaker. If win pct in common games is equal, the team with more wins gets tiebreaker. If both teams have same record in common games, you move on to strength of victory tiebreaker.
Do you have a source on that? I don't think it's correct. I think it's based solely on winning % (i.e. 1-0 is the same as 10-0).
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I think it's based solely on winning % (i.e. 1-0 is the same as 10-0).
Correct and corrected.
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Those games would count. However, there need to be a minimum of 4 common opponent games for that tie-breaker to be used. I don't think that's the case with TB and GB (but I could be wrong on that).
Conference record comes before common opponents anyway. TB is currently 6-3, GB is 5-4.
If they finished tied in both overall and conference record, it would go to strength of victory (assuming they only had 3 common games).
Do you have a source on that? I don't think it's correct. I think it's based solely on winning % (i.e. 1-0 is the same as 10-0).
Right, and if GB won out and TB lost one, then it would move to Strength of Victory because both teams only have conference games remaining. So, I was assuming the conference record would be tied and the common games tiebreaker wouldn't apply.
I ran some numbers on Strength of Victory but admittedly I did it quickly, will look again later today.
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Sum up all wins and losses vs common opponents... team with the higher win pct in these games gets tiebreaker. If win pct in common games is equal, you move on to strength of victory (SOV) tiebreaker.
Caveat - The teams must have at least four games in common, not four common teams. But for simplicity's sake, consider GB/CHI/TAM as an example.
If TAM beats CHI and GB and CHI split, the TAM gets tiebreaker because 1-0 (1.000) is better than 1-1 (.500)
If TAM beats CHI and GB beats CHI twice, move to SOV
If TAM and CHI tie, and GB and CHI split, move to SOV.
EDIT: Previous version confused NFL with Big East tiebreakers... in NFL, win pct is determining factor, regardless of number of wins.
So, Tampa loses this week to Dallas and GB beats Chicago. Is the following then correct?
TB and GB both played ATL(TBx2), CHI(GBx2), DAL, SEA.
Tampa beat CHI, SEA and ATL once. GB beat Chicago 2X, and SEA. Both teams are then 3-2 in common games, move to SOV tiebreaker. Correct?
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Save yourself the headache, and just go to:
www.espn.com/nfl/playoffs/machine
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Save yourself the headache, and just go to:
www.espn.com/nfl/playoffs/machine
It just created more headaches. It says in this scenario Tampa would win over GB with the common games tiebreaker, which makes no sense since they'd have 5 common games and they would have each gone 3-2. Oh Well.
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To be clear, obviously the Packers are the better team.
But, this spot on Sunday screams tight game, potential upset. All the signs are right there.
-Pack coming off big win
-Off two straight home games
-Going on road (2-4) to division opponent
-Bears 2-0 vs division at home
-Alshon Jeffery back
-Special teams will be messy for both teams on bad field/below zero weather
If I'm wrong come 3:30 next Sunday I'll own it.
I agree with every point you make here.... but with a caveat.
It is a playoff game for the Packers - they have to win out. If this was early or mid-season, I would be on board with you.
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Which is why he's destined to be a career back-up. I in no way think he's the answer for the Bears at QB, but if not for several untimely drops, he could easily be 3-0 as the starter this season.
Or more precisely, Howard could be 3-0 in his last 3 games with Barkley at QB.
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By the way, did Rodgers suddenly figure out how to lead, after being a leader early in his career, forgetting how to do it the last few years, and now...?
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By the way, did Rodgers suddenly figure out how to lead, after being a leader early in his career, forgetting how to do it the last few years, and now...?
Rodgers has led since the day he became the starter. It was utter insanity to suggest otherwise.
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By the way, did Rodgers suddenly figure out how to lead, after being a leader early in his career, forgetting how to do it the last few years, and now...?
Funny.
But to be real, we only had a couple dummies suggest that was the case.
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I agree with every point you make here.... but with a caveat.
It is a playoff game for the Packers - they have to win out. If this was early or mid-season, I would be on board with you.
I absolutely want the Bears to lose, they need to find a way to overtake the Jags for the third pick.
I've soon too much weird NFL football over the years with scenarios shaping up like this Sunday though to not think this won't be anything other than a 3 point game either way.
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I absolutely want the Bears to lose, they need to find a way to overtake the Jags for the third pick.
I've soon too much weird NFL football over the years with scenarios shaping up like this Sunday though to not think this won't be anything other than a 3 point game either way.
I know it will be a tight game because we're going down to Northbrook for the annual viewing party with my FiL's childhood friend. The people we're seeing are great, but the wife of the host, while a pretty uneducated football fan, is an unabashed Bears fan. The crowd is a mix of Packer and Bear fans, but she takes a sick pleasure in running around playing the Bears "fight song" any time they do ANYTHING remotely positive. "Hey, they didn't fumble" - fight song, "Hey they got four yards on 3rd and 6" - fight song "Hey, they sacked Rodgers" - fight song 3x
It drives me absolutely insane(which may be her objective).
Anyway, every single time we are there it is a tight game which means that damn fight song will be playing all the time. So we're going down on Sunday which means it will be a tight game.
Correlation IS causation my friends.
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I know it will be a tight game because we're going down to Northbrook for the annual viewing party with my FiL's childhood friend. The people we're seeing are great, but the wife of the host, while a pretty uneducated football fan, is an unabashed Bears fan. The crowd is a mix of Packer and Bear fans, but she takes a sick pleasure in running around playing the Bears "fight song" any time they do ANYTHING remotely positive. "Hey, they didn't fumble" - fight song, "Hey they got four yards on 3rd and 6" - fight song "Hey, they sacked Rodgers" - fight song 3x
It drives me absolutely insane(which may be her objective).
Anyway, every single time we are there it is a tight game which means that damn fight song will be playing all the time. So we're going down on Sunday which means it will be a tight game.
Correlation IS causation my friends.
Too bad Cutler isn't playing... because this is what I always end up playing every time Cutler screws up (which is typically at least 6 times/game) when the Bears play the Packers.
https://www.youtube.com/e/-DPBgqKwvDs
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Too bad Cutler isn't playing... because this is what I always end up playing every time Cutler screws up (which is typically at least 6 times/game) when the Bears play the Packers.
https://www.youtube.com/e/-DPBgqKwvDs
My repeat video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xU9Ke3uFP8w
"Same old Jay."
"We don't need luck."
"Jay will throw us the ball."
"The proof is in the pudding."
"He'll throw the ball to the defense."
So good, so true.
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Bob McGinn, in his article about how the Packers are not in the same class as the Seahawks, wrote about how the Fail Mary call was the correct call and that the ref who made the touchdown call had a "better view of the play than any camera could ever have." When things are going poorly for the Packers he's all over it and loving writing about it. When things start rolling for them he just takes these stupid jabs when it's clear that wasn't the right call.
Also, I love how his article following the Falcons game about Rodgers not being a HOF QB yet (LOL) sites his inability to record fourth quarter comeback wins compared to his peers (because he couldn't get 45 yards in 31 seconds after the defense gave up the lead he helped to get in that same 4th quarter). That is the worst possible statistic to measure a quarterback. I honestly don't mean to knock Stafford here, I'm just using it as an example of how stupid it is, but Stafford throws a pick 6 in the 4th quarter to fall behind and then goes down and gets a drive to take the lead and eventually win the game, so suddenly he's credited with a "4th quarter comeback" despite the fact that the only reason they had a deficit in the 4th quarter was because he threw a pick 6. But when Rodgers drives down the field to take a lead and then the defense lets the Falcons score a touchdown to win the game with 31 seconds left it's, "Oh, look at Rodgers, can't win games he trails in the 4th quarter!"
I used to love McGinn. He's gotten annoying the last 2 years.
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As was stated months ago, Barkley > Cutler.
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Special teams = Brutal
Capers = Terribly brutal. Send someone to walk him out now. What will it take? The middle has been wide open EVERY single pass attempt by Barkley. That is coaching. Fire him now!!
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They're playing zone cause the secondary sucks. They are getting zero pass rush too. Not just the coaching.
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They're playing zone cause the secondary sucks. They are getting zero pass rush too. Not just the coaching.
I've never seen a zone that totally vacates the center of the field.
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As was stated months ago, Barkley > Cutler.
And you're still wrong.
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Last year's Davante is back.
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And you're still wrong.
Well, Barkley's been much better over the past 4 weeks than Cutler had been for much of his time in Chicago. So maybe it's just a hot streak for him I guess.
Anyways I don't know what took Mac so long to realize Ty needed his touches. It wasn't that hard to see, was it? It was pretty clear last year before he got injured. At least I thought?
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Cutler switched to number 12 hey?
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Barkley's been atrocious in the second half, can't make those decisions.
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Well, Barkley's been much better over the past 4 weeks than Cutler had been for much of his time in Chicago. So maybe it's just a hot streak for him I guess.
Anyways I don't know what took Mac so long to realize Ty needed his touches. It wasn't that hard to see, was it? It was pretty clear last year before he got injured. At least I thought?
Rodgers is the most important player on the team. Got to keep him happy by throwing the ball.
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Barkley's been atrocious in the second half, can't make those decisions.
But the Bears have a secret weapon - Capers.
You are never out of the game with him calling the defense.
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Barkley just realized Alshon was playing in this game.
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Vikes season over.
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But the Bears have a secret weapon - Capers.
You are never out of the game with him calling the defense.
So what exactly should they do? They took away the middle, like you bitched about last half, so they attacked the sidelines.
I mean this defense doesn't have a lot of talent out there right now. I'm not saying Capers is great, but he is clearly dealing with a limited deck right now.
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One loss down, two to go.
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So what exactly should they do? They took away the middle, like you bitched about last half, so they attacked the sidelines.
I mean this defense doesn't have a lot of talent out there right now. I'm not saying Capers is great, but he is clearly dealing with a limited deck right now.
Took away the middle? What game are you watching?
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The one where HHCD had two interceptions down the middle.
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Fact of the matter is when you can't sustain drives you lose games. Up 10 4th quarter and the Packers are dropping back and throwing 40 yard passes to the sideline to a guy who hasn't caught routine passes all day.
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Fact of the matter is when you can't sustain drives you lose games. Up 10 4th quarter and the Packers are dropping back and throwing 40 yard passes to the sideline to a guy who hasn't caught routine passes all day.
They ran the ball too. Didn't work.
But your point is 100% correct.
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I'll take credit, I said this was a game to be terrified about if I were a Pack fan, it was easy to see that this would be a walk off type game.
If JAX can somehow win, would be a good day for the Bears.
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For eff's sake that was brutal. Thank God for the non-leader Aaron Rodgers.
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PS Bears down.
And Barkley > Cutler.
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PS Bears down.
And Barkley > Cutler.
Only because Cutler is a Trump supporter.
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Only because Cutler is a Trump supporter.
Lol. Didn't even know that about him. Even better.
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I actually thought Barkley looked ok.
Now the Vikings trading away a first round pick for Sam Bradford was dumb in retrospect.
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I'll take credit, I said this was a game to be terrified about if I were a Pack fan, it was easy to see that this would be a walk off type game.
If JAX can somehow win, would be a good day for the Bears.
And I was wrong. I neglected to take the epic collapses under Capers into account.
Is there anyone else who could give up 450 yards to a Barkley-led team? Any one else to give up back-to-back-to-back 75+ yard drives in the 4th quarter?
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The Bears should have gone for it and 4th and goal. Why play for the tie when you're 3-10? Unless, of course, they were fine with the L. I mean, they also had no one deep when the only thing that could beat them was a long pass. Hmm...
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Only because Cutler is a Trump supporter.
The fact that you know who Cutler (and evidently Barkley) voted for seems vaguely creepy.
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Only because Cutler is a Trump supporter.
Cutler supports winners. What's wrong with that? ;)
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The fact that you know who Cutler (and evidently Barkley) voted for seems vaguely creepy.
There was an entire Tribune article on it.
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I actually thought Barkley looked ok.
Now the Vikings trading away a first round pick for Sam Bradford was dumb in retrospect.
It was dumb at the time. I said it repeatedly on the day they made the trade and was definitely in the minority.
But....... all of those 5-7 yard completions ARE impressive.
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I'll take credit, I said this was a game to be terrified about if I were a Pack fan, it was easy to see that this would be a walk off type game.
If JAX can somehow win, would be a good day for the Bears.
Come on dish, this game ended up close, but not for any of the reasons you stated including the weather
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Cutler supports winners. What's wrong with that? ;)
AHH! So THAT is why Cutler was always throwing the ball to the Packers when they played!
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I actually thought Barkley looked ok.
Now the Vikings trading away a first round pick for Sam Bradford was dumb in retrospect.
The Vikings are good at dumb. Whether it's Denny Green pissing away a good shot at an NFC championship by taking a knee against Atlanta in '98, Favre throwing a stupid interception when they had a Super Bowl trip in the bag a few years ago, Adrian Peterson getting suspended for whipping his kid with a stick, or trading a first rounder for Bradford. They are frequently good enough to do something special, but someone always figures out a way to mess it up. The Bradford trade didn't hurt them this year, but they will regret it in seasons to come.
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Come on dish, this game ended up close, but not for any of the reasons you stated including the weather
We must have two totally different NFL philosophies then, because you could see this coming from a mile away if one watches the NFL on a regular basis.
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We must have two totally different NFL philosophies then, because you could see this coming from a mile away if one watches the NFL on a regular basis.
If you would've been told that the game would be tied at 10-10 at halftime and then we got to the 4th quarter and were told the Bears 3rd quarter went fumble, interception, interception (with a Hail Mary INT to end the first half as well) and the game was then 27-10 Pack and you said, "Yup, this game will end with the Bears having the ball at the 5 inside a minute down 3" then you truly are Nostradamus.
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We must have two totally different NFL philosophies then, because you could see this coming from a mile away if one watches the NFL on a regular basis.
I watch the NFL alot. Teams that have everything to play for in december usually don't let down over teams that have nothing to play for. The packers were up 27 to 10, that wouldn't have happened if your points were valid. Were you saying you were correct at the end of the third quarter?Packers let up after having a big lead and playing conservate on defense. The bears took advantage and played hard to their credit.
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There was an entire Tribune article on it.
That's what you get for reading the corrupt media. Sad. Add the clueless Tribune to the failing NY Times.
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It's simple really...the Bears aren't as bad as everyone thinks, the Packers aren't as good as people think, division game in mid December, crummy conditions. Plus...it's football, stuff happens.
As I said, there was a reason Vegas had opened that line at Pack -4. Bears are the hottest team in the NFL with 5 straight covers (including today)...this isn't hard to read between the lines guys.
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That's what you get for reading the corrupt media. Sad. Add the clueless Tribune to the failing NY Times.
?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-jay-cutler-donald-trump-election-20161110-story.html (http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-jay-cutler-donald-trump-election-20161110-story.html)
Quotes from Cutler himself, and this is coming from the biggest Cutler supporter for god knows how long.
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Bob McGinn, in his article about how the Packers are not in the same class as the Seahawks, wrote about how the Fail Mary call was the correct call and that the ref who made the touchdown call had a "better view of the play than any camera could ever have." When things are going poorly for the Packers he's all over it and loving writing about it. When things start rolling for them he just takes these stupid jabs when it's clear that wasn't the right call.
Also, I love how his article following the Falcons game about Rodgers not being a HOF QB yet (LOL) sites his inability to record fourth quarter comeback wins compared to his peers (because he couldn't get 45 yards in 31 seconds after the defense gave up the lead he helped to get in that same 4th quarter). That is the worst possible statistic to measure a quarterback. I honestly don't mean to knock Stafford here, I'm just using it as an example of how stupid it is, but Stafford throws a pick 6 in the 4th quarter to fall behind and then goes down and gets a drive to take the lead and eventually win the game, so suddenly he's credited with a "4th quarter comeback" despite the fact that the only reason they had a deficit in the 4th quarter was because he threw a pick 6. But when Rodgers drives down the field to take a lead and then the defense lets the Falcons score a touchdown to win the game with 31 seconds left it's, "Oh, look at Rodgers, can't win games he trails in the 4th quarter!"
I used to love McGinn. He's gotten annoying the last 2 years.
By this dumb stat that people throw around Rodgers's play today was "not clutch" because the Packers didn't fall behind in the 4th quarter.
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By this dumb stat that people throw around Rodgers's play today was "not clutch" because the Packers didn't fall behind in the 4th quarter.
His team blew a 17-point 4th quarter lead against one of the worst teams in the NFL and he led consecutive three-and-outs during that comeback. I'm not sure that this game is going to be on his list of "clutch performances."
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His team blew a 17-point 4th quarter lead against one of the worst teams in the NFL and he led consecutive three-and-outs during that comeback. I'm not sure that this game is going to be on his list of "clutch performances."
Hmm. Opponent makes a 17-0 run in the 4th mainly due to some horrendous play calling and porous defense to tie the game up inside a minute left, facing 3rd and 11 and the prospect of giving the ball back to the opponent, who has 2 timeouts left, all while understanding your opponent is playing with nothing to lose at home and if you lose the game your season is, for all intents and purposes, over, and he drops an absolute dime 60 yards in the air and it isn't clutch?
Interesting take. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on what clutch is then.
::)
And his play never counts as "clutch" when the Packers lead, in large part due to his play, from start to finish in a game, and he's also "not clutch" when he leads his team to a score to take a lead late in the game and then the awful defense we have seen in much of his time as a starter gives up a score to the opponent. So in order to be "clutch" you have to be just bad enough to not have a lead late in the game but just good enough to take the lead on the last play of the game or your defense very well may give the lead right back.
It's quite possibly the worst possible statistic to measure a quarterback's "clutchness" I've ever heard in my life.
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Hmm. Opponent makes a 17-0 run in the 4th mainly due to some horrendous play calling and porous defense to tie the game up inside a minute left, facing 3rd and 11 and the prospect of giving the ball back to the opponent, who has 2 timeouts left, all while understanding your opponent is playing with nothing to lose at home and if you lose the game your season is, for all intents and purposes, over, and he drops an absolute dime 60 yards in the air and it isn't clutch?
Interesting take. Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on what clutch is then.
::)
Another, less overdramatic way to view it is that he did nothing for an entire quarter, allowing a bad team to stage a comeback, before throwing a deep ball to a wide open receiver against blown coverage by the safety.
To each his own.
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Another, less overdramatic way to view it is that he did nothing for an entire quarter, allowing a bad team to stage a comeback, before throwing a deep ball to a wide open receiver against blown coverage by the safety.
To each his own.
It was by far the most clutch play of the Packers season this far and one of the most clutch plays in a HOF career. So call it what you want but it was incredibly clutch.
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Clutch or not, the Packers won and the Bears still suck.
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Outcome of Pack/Bears should please all in involved, rare that a game can end with both fan bases coming away happy.
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It's simple really...the Bears aren't as bad as everyone thinks, the Packers aren't as good as people think, division game in mid December, crummy conditions. Plus...it's football, stuff happens.
As I said, there was a reason Vegas had opened that line at Pack -4. Bears are the hottest team in the NFL with 5 straight covers (including today)...this isn't hard to read between the lines guys.
The guys in Vegas are really good ..... but even they can't foresee a WR dropping 2 gimme TDs or a porous 'D' allowing 3 75+ yard drives to Matt Barley in one quarter. This was very nearly an epic collapse of Seattlean proportions.
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The guys in Vegas are really good ..... but even they can't foresee a WR dropping 2 gimme TDs or a porous 'D' allowing 3 75+ yard drives to Matt Barley in one quarter. This was very nearly an epic collapse of Seattlean proportions.
The prediction was that the game would be within 4 points. It was. Vegas doesn't have to go into details.
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The guys in Vegas are really good ..... but even they can't foresee a WR dropping 2 gimme TDs or a porous 'D' allowing 3 75+ yard drives to Matt Barley in one quarter. This was very nearly an epic collapse of Seattlean proportions.
Highlights that the Vegas perspective is the "what" and the fan perspective is the "how." For Packers fans, there's a lot of familiar narratives to how the game went down. All of those past games that come to fans' minds, and just about every other game of the past 5-10 years, are the data points that are built into Vegas' lines to project the outcome. So everyone's right. Vegas wouldn't have predicted that play-by-play of how yesterday went down, but in the aggregate, it was clearly spot on when the final whistle blew.
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Clutch or not, the Packers won and the Bears still suck.
This. Football season over in Chicago. Has been for many weeks. Onto basketball season locally. Oh, despite my love for Jimmy and Dwayne, that ain't working out so well. #fearthedeer
At least we still have the Hawks.
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The prediction was that the game would be within 4 points. It was. Vegas doesn't have to go into details.
No it wasn't. The prediction was that by putting the line at 4 points, they'd get 50% of the money on each side of that line. The Packers could have won by 5, it wouldn't have made Vegas wrong because the game wasn't within 4 points.
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No it wasn't. The prediction was that by putting the line at 4 points, they'd get 50% of the money on each side of that line. The Packers could have won by 5, it wouldn't have made Vegas wrong because the game wasn't within 4 points.
You're right. I guess I should have said that Vegas predicted the final score would be close. Does that make you feel better?
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You're right. I guess I should have said that Vegas predicted the final score would be close. Does that make you feel better?
No, I was feeling fine to begin with. Thanks for asking.
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I overheard a conversation at lunch yesterday between a Bear fan and a Packer fan that I found quite entertaining. Obviously, both were ribbing each other, but the Bears fan was really laying in because he thought the Bears were the better team, had all the momentum at the end of the game, and simply got burnt by a lucky play. The retort from the Packer fan was awesome...
[Paraphrasing]
Packer Fan: You know what that game was? It was like playing Madden against your 5 year old kid. Your competitive nature has you run the score up early, but then your conscience kicks in and you feel bad, so you let the kid get back in the game so you don't damage him emotionally. But since there's no way your going to let your kid beat you, your competitive side turns it back on at the very end and you get the win. A win is a win... John Madden doesn't come on your TV with some analysis about how sh|tty your Playstation 2 team must be because you almost lost to a sh|tty team.
It went downhill from there, but I thought the analogy was quite funny.
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Sounds like both fans were morons. The Bears fan for thinking they are any good and that the play was "lucky". And the Packers fan for acting like they had it under control and didn't almost give the game away.
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Sounds like both fans were morons. The Bears fan for thinking they are any good and that the play was "lucky". And the Packers fan for acting like they had it under control and didn't almost give the game away.
Agree. Neither fan base has much to brag about during that game. Although the Packers control their own fate to make the playoffs. And the Bears, well it's going to be another long off season for Bears fans, myself included.
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Wasn't that game like Deja vu all over again? 12/29/2013 Aaron hits Cobb for a td on 4th and 8 with 38 seconds left to win 33-28. This time a 60 yarder for the winning field goal with time running out
That's just not fair, 'ey?
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Wasn't that game like Deja vu all over again? 12/29/2013 Aaron hits Cobb for a td on 4th and 8 with 38 seconds left to win 33-28. This time a 60 yarder for the winning field goal with time running out
That's just not fair, 'ey?
I thought the same thing. I suppose the difference was that this year's Packers had no business putting themselves in that position.
The reality is that if the Pack keeps this going, one bad quarter will quickly be forgotten.
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I thought the same thing. I suppose the difference was that this year's Packers had no business putting themselves in that position.
The reality is that if the Pack keeps this going, one bad quarter will quickly be forgotten.
Like a big cat playin with its food, enna so?
What did Aaron say again? No worries, AND, something about winning out
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I think even if they win today, they will have a lot of trouble next week.
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These games today should have been played on Monday.
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Dom has got the boys ready to play again.
I guess no one can stop the Barleys and Bradfords of the world.
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These games today should have been played on Monday.
As a fan I like this format. With no NBA games today there would be no good TV to watch today.
Now I get NFL games Saturday, Sunday, and Monday and have the big NBA games Sunday as well.
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(http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server5500/tpbc2s65/products/1276/images/1309/skolvodka175__62281__14879.1358534211.1280.1280.jpg?c=2)
The consensus is out on the Queens, and it is is that their season is over.
Doesn't really matter who was under center or who was behind that person under center. With that offensive line? Never a chance.
But hey, I'm sure they'll address the issue with their mid first round pi...oh wait, they don't have one of those thanks to this guy.
http://sports.yahoo.com/video/clay-matthews-demolishes-sam-bradford-192714094.html
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The consensus is out on the Queens, and it is is that their season is over.
Doesn't really matter who was under center or who was behind that person under center. With that offensive line? Never a chance.
But hey, I'm sure they'll address the issue with their mid first round pi...oh wait, they don't have one of those thanks to this guy.
http://sports.yahoo.com/video/clay-matthews-demolishes-sam-bradford-192714094.html
While I agree with the premise, the Pack has now allowed back-to-back stiffs to put up 50+ points and 900+ yards.
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While I agree with the premise, the Pack has now allowed back-to-back stiffs to put up 50+ points and 900+ yards.
Don't think this is fair today. They pulled starters in the 4th when they went up 25. Thought the defense played well overall.
Last week....different story
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Don't think this is fair today. They pulled starters in the 4th when they went up 25. Thought the defense played well overall.
Last week....different story
Even last week I'm not really sure what someone can expect out of a defense when they're on the field for 13 minutes in a single quarter. Start with the Bears ball, then the next 2 Packers possessions were 3 and outs with a total of -1 yards through the air. When you're on the field as much as they were, chances are you're going to give up some yardage and points. Plus no Perry or (for all intents and purposes) Matthews doesn't help the cause.
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Even last week I'm not really sure what someone can expect out of a defense when they're on the field for 13 minutes in a single quarter. Start with the Bears ball, then the next 2 Packers possessions were 3 and outs with a total of -1 yards through the air. When you're on the field as much as they were, chances are you're going to give up some yardage and points. Plus no Perry or (for all intents and purposes) Matthews doesn't help the cause.
In reality, they were on the field for 13 minutes because they could not stop anything.
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In reality, they were on the field for 13 minutes because they could not stop anything.
Back to back 3 and outs (with a thinned out defense due to injuries) is one way to guarantee your defense won't be stopping much.
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Man, that Derek Carr injury sucks. Raiders were fun to watch this year.
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Bears have 3rd pick if they lose like they should next week. If they have #3, I fully expect Kizer or Trubisky to be the pick
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Bears have 3rd pick if they lose like they should next week. If they have #3, I fully expect Kizer or Trubisky to be the pick
For the love of god, not Kizer. Hope Watson falls to 3. If not, would rather get an impact defensive player.
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Bears have 3rd pick if they lose like they should next week. If they have #3, I fully expect Kizer or Trubisky to be the pick
Do you think that would be a smart pick, Jes? Or is it just your prediction?
I think either a safety or a DB.
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(http://cdn2.bigcommerce.com/server5500/tpbc2s65/products/1276/images/1309/skolvodka175__62281__14879.1358534211.1280.1280.jpg?c=2)
The consensus is out on the Queens, and it is is that their season is over.
They sure did a nice job of capitalizing on that 5-1 start....
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Back to back 3 and outs (with a thinned out defense due to injuries) is one way to guarantee your defense won't be stopping much.
I certainly understand that...... but 744 yards and 5 TDs to Barkley and Bradford (maybe the two worst QBs in the entire league).
John Boy Billy Ray Bob is crazy if he doesn't have Stafford throw it at least 50 times next week.
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I certainly understand that...... but 744 yards and 5 TDs to Barkley and Bradford (maybe the two worst QBs in the entire league).
John Boy Billy Ray Bob is crazy if he doesn't have Stafford throw it at least 50 times next week.
I'd be all for that. The way Matthews played today Stafford may not make it to halftime. And the turnovers our defense has been creating have been great. Sure they may score 28 points, but if the Lions throw it 50 times the Packers might score 45 points.
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They sure did a nice job of capitalizing on that 5-1 0 start....
FIFY.
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Bears have 3rd pick if they lose like they should next week. If they have #3, I fully expect Kizer or Trubisky to be the pick
Not a chance on either one of those guys. They love Kaaya, no way they take a QB early (not should they).
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For the love of god, not Kizer. Hope Watson falls to 3. If not, would rather get an impact defensive player.
Watson has fallen out of favor quickly, he's talked like a second rounder now some place. Bears should grab defense in the first, try to snag him or another in the second.
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I'd be all for that. The way Matthews played today Stafford may not make it to halftime. And the turnovers our defense has been creating have been great. Sure they may score 28 points, but if the Lions throw it 50 times the Packers might score 45 points.
When the center rolls the ball on the ground, I don't consider that "creating" a turnover. ;D
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When the center rolls the ball on the ground, I don't consider that "creating" a turnover. ;D
12 turnovers in 3 games is pretty good no matter how you get them. If Stafford is dropping back to throw the ball 50+ times the Lions will have at least 2 turnovers (whether it's interceptions, fumbles, or a combination), and I believe the Packers have 1 turnover total in the 5 game winning streak. Combine that with how well Rodgers and Montgomery are playing and the Packers would be in very good shape.
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Does anyone believe this? Or is it just CYA by Zimmer?
According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, the Vikings went against coach Mike Zimmer's game plan on the first series of Saturday's Week 16 loss to the Packers.
The game plan called for Xavier Rhodes to shadow Jordy Nelson but the Vikings decided early in the week to go off script. Terence Newman asked to cover Nelson during the first half but Zimmer told him to "do what you're supposed to do." Newman shadowed Nelson anyway and got burned for two early touchdowns. Rhodes eventually moved to Nelson and limited him to two second-half catches. Saturday's mutiny against Zimmer marks a fitting end to what has been a disappointing year for the Vikings.
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Does anyone believe this? Or is it just CYA by Zimmer?
According to ESPN's Adam Schefter, the Vikings went against coach Mike Zimmer's game plan on the first series of Saturday's Week 16 loss to the Packers.
The game plan called for Xavier Rhodes to shadow Jordy Nelson but the Vikings decided early in the week to go off script. Terence Newman asked to cover Nelson during the first half but Zimmer told him to "do what you're supposed to do." Newman shadowed Nelson anyway and got burned for two early touchdowns. Rhodes eventually moved to Nelson and limited him to two second-half catches. Saturday's mutiny against Zimmer marks a fitting end to what has been a disappointing year for the Vikings.
Not CYA. Keep reading. The DBs admitted to it
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Not CYA. Keep reading. The DBs admitted to it
The coaches have totally lost the team.
I did read that earlier, but posted because I simply do not believe that Zimmer (who was a DC), the current DC, or any of the other 6 or 7 defensive coaches somehow did not notice for an entire half that the DBs were not following the game plan.
If that really happened, the entire staff needs to be fired.
We may never have the joy of watching the Queens get murdered in the SB again, but we at least can all enjoy them coming apart at the seams.
Plus, they traded a 1st rounder plus a 4th rounder for a QB nobody wanted. Sounds almost Bear-ish to me.
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The coaches have totally lost the team.
I did read that earlier, but posted because I simply do not believe that Zimmer (who was a DC), the current DC, or any of the other 6 or 7 defensive coaches somehow did not notice for an entire half that the DBs were not following the game plan.
If that really happened, the entire staff needs to be fired.
We may never have the joy of watching the Queens get murdered in the SB again, but we at least can all enjoy them coming apart at the seams.
Plus, they traded a 1st rounder plus a 4th rounder for a QB nobody wanted. Sounds almost Bear-ish to me.
I believe they did it only for the first possession and then were thoroughly scolded on the sideline.
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I believe they did it only for the first possession and then were thoroughly scolded on the sideline.
Yup. First series only
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Yup. First series only
In a way, it makes it more troubling. Nelson's impact wasn't limited to the first drive - he tortured them the entire first half. So freelancing didn't work, but neither did the gameplan. Complete failure in the first half. They played Zimmer defense in the 2nd with the tough blitz schemes from his Cincy days, but it was too late.
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Just realized that Demetrius Harris, backup tight end for the Chiefs, played basketball at UW-Milwaukee. Panthers have more players in the NFL than the NBA.
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Packers will have trouble at the Lions. I actually expect the Lions to win rather easily.
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Too much egg in da nog, ai na?
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Too much egg in da nog, ai na?
Some people can handle the nog, but not the eggs
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I believe they did it only for the first possession and then were thoroughly scolded on the sideline.
A possession, a half, a whole game - does it really matter? The players clearly knew their assignments and still disregarded them. I'm fine with players who disagree and discuss strategies with coaches - Lloyd Walton did this with Al all the time. But when the discussion is over and the coach makes the decision, the player's role is to follow the strategy, period.
If Zimmer had any control of this team, it never would have happened. Once it did, he shouldn't have "scolded" them - he should have benched them.
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Robinson tackling Elliot. Cowboy Lion call. Dallas the better team.
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Both the Packers and Lions should have a secret gentleman's agreement to have QB kneel downs 90 straight times on Sunday night.
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Both the Packers and Lions should have a secret gentleman's agreement to have QB kneel downs 90 straight times on Sunday night.
That would be hilarious, game moved to SNF, both teams kneel for 60 minutes. Beautiful.
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If the Pack/Lions were to go to overtime on Sunday night, it'd be very interesting to see if both teams said "screw it", and tried to run the clock out. NFL would hate it, but it'd clearly be the best scenario for both teams.
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Playing around with the playoff generator on ESPN.com, if the Giants beat the Redskins it seems like it's pretty much guaranteed both teams are in the Playoffs before they even start their game. But I believe the Giants are locked into the 4 seed, so it's fairly unlikely that the Giants play their starters the entire game. If the Redskins win it looks like they're in as the 6 seed, so that makes the Packers/Lions a win or go home. Unless there's a tie in either game, then things change.
I'll live with Rodgers as my QB.
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I have complete confidence in Detroit's ability to lose the last 3 and miss the playoffs.
.
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I'll live with Rodgers as my QB.
Even though he isn't a leader? (One of the most ridiculous hot takes on this board in 2016.)
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I've been sick all week, and watching far too much tv, but watching the Sun Bowl closely and a couple other UNC games, there's some stuff to like about Trubisky, but no way, none, zero, zilch should he be a top 5 pick. Not right now. He needs much more experience, a year back will put him in the conversation next year to be a top 5 pick.
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I've been sick all week, and watching far too much tv, but watching the Sun Bowl closely and a couple other UNC games, there's some stuff to like about Trubisky, but no way, none, zero, zilch should he be a top 5 pick. Not right now. He needs much more experience, a year back will put him in the conversation next year to be a top 5 pick.
Dish, still think Bears are high on Kayaa?(sic)
2nd I assume.
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Dish, still think Bears are high on Kayaa?(sic)
2nd I assume.
02, I do, I think in the second round, that's who they would pull the trigger on.
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I've been sick all week, and watching far too much tv, but watching the Sun Bowl closely and a couple other UNC games, there's some stuff to like about Trubisky, but no way, none, zero, zilch should he be a top 5 pick. Not right now. He needs much more experience, a year back will put him in the conversation next year to be a top 5 pick.
The introduction of the rookie wave scale changed the risk profile substantially in favor of projects, especially at the quarterback position. It's no longer cost-prohibitive to draft a QB high that you think may develop into a star (or above league average, which seems to be hard enough to find) and simply discard them if you find that not to be the case. A lot of draft capital, but not the raw financial investment.
Mind you, this still isn't what well-managed teams do, but it's becoming more common-place.
Now, to your point, I agree with you on Trubisky, and honestly don't ever see him as a franchise-altering player.
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There's a lot to like about Trubisky, size, mobility, arm. But the mistakes he makes should be corrected at the college level, not pro's. The interception across his body on the run, and the scramble where he had tons of time, took a sack...he's mentally not ready. If he stays, a year from now could be an epic QB class (Darnold, Jackson, Rosen).
My ideal Bears scenario is a Jets godfather offer to the Bears to swap picks.
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Thank god it's finally over.
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Tonight's game means winner hosts NYG, loser goes to SEA (and then DAL w/win at SEA).
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Tonight's game means winner hosts NYG, loser goes to SEA (and then DAL w/win at SEA).
49ers and Washington are both only down a possession. Still a lot of time for those results to change and give the GB/Det winner the 3 seed and/or the loser an early offseason.
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Both teams in? Sit everybody.
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Both teams in? Sit everybody.
Home against NYG or on the road at Seattle?
Is the risk of losing someone worth it?
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I honestly think whatever team loses tonight can go into Seattle and win. My concern for the Lions would be playing 3 times in 12 days, as the Seattle game on wild card weekend is a virtual lock to be the Saturday night game.
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Considering I've seen McCarthy scream at more players in the 1st half of this game than I've seen the last 4 years combined, I think he wants to win the division. Unfortunately his cornerbacks have to play in the game
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Considering I've seen McCarthy scream at more players in the 1st half of this game than I've seen the last 4 years combined, I think he wants to win the division. Unfortunately his cornerbacks have to play in the game
Considering they are on pace to hold the Lion juggernaut to 500 yards .... maybe he has reason.
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Considering I've seen McCarthy scream at more players in the 1st half of this game than I've seen the last 4 years combined, I think he wants to win the division. Unfortunately his cornerbacks have to play in the game
Considering they are on pace to hold the Lion juggernaut to 500 yards .... maybe he has reason.
Not sure it matters how the defense plays if the offense is going to play like this...
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I honestly think whatever team loses tonight can go into Seattle and win. My concern for the Lions would be playing 3 times in 12 days, as the Seattle game on wild card weekend is a virtual lock to be the Saturday night game.
Isn't Saturday night usually the dud game on ESPN?
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Isn't Saturday night usually the dud game on ESPN?
Raiders/Texans has to be a virtual lock to be the 3:30 pm game on Saturday, with a second game to follow.
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Raiders/Texans has to be a virtual lock to be the 3:30 pm game on Saturday, with a second game to follow.
I believe every Texans wildcard playoff game has been the 3:30 Saturday special.
Also, the Texans are quite lucky to the get the Raiders. They most likely will win and they are the worst team in either conference to make the playoffs. Another match up with the Chiefs would look like last years beat down.
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I actually think the Packers can afford a loss to either Houston or Seattle and still get into the Playoffs. If the Packers were to beat both the Vikings and the Lions I don't see either of those 2 teams having any less than 7 losses, and the Packers would almost surely have the tiebreaker on both, being 2-0 against Detroit and 1-1 against the Vikings but having the best record within the division.
Let's say the Packers do beat the Lions. That means to finish with less than 7 losses, the Lions would have to win 2 of at NYG, at Dallas, and at NO. That's tough.
Bingo.
If the Packers lose before the NFC Title game (and I'm pretty sure they will) I'm up in the air whether Mac has saved his job (not whether he actually will have, because he will be back no doubt, but whether I want him to have). I lean towards yes as he changed things up and hopefully learned just dropping Rodgers back and looking for the home run every play doesn't work. But it seems like every year we start the season like that so I'm not sure he'll keep that lesson in mind.
What I do know is I don't think Lacy is a fit for the type of offense the Packers need to run. Very good when healthy but the offense gets vanilla with him. I'd like to see Montgomery stay as the starting RB with Michael and Ripper backing him up. Keep Alison at WR and see if Cobb will take a paycut or cut him loose. Resign Cook and Lang (they probably let him go though). Have to figure out what OLBs are back and get some DBs through the draft or FA.
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What would the O/U on a Packers/Falcons game open at, 60? They would put up 40 easily on that Packers makeshift secondary. But the run that Rodgers is on, you'd think he's good for 3-4 TDs on his own.
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McCarthy will be back. Thompson might be pushed to a senior role for Elliott Wolf.
For all the crap he took, Dom Capers has been fantastic the last six games.
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McCarthy will be back. Thompson might be pushed to a senior role for Elliott Wolf.
For all the crap he took, Dom Capers has been fantastic the last six games.
Agreed. I don't think Capers is the issue. The defense has been pretty solid when we've been even remotely healthy this year. In years where we've been awful defensively (and there have been some), you had guys like Eric Walden as your best LB not named Clay Matthews. Sorry, but no defensive coordinator in the history of the game is going to be very successful with that "talent."
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BTW, this six game run pretty much kills, chops up, burns and buries the idea that Aaron Rodgers is not a leader.
http://deadspin.com/that-was-peak-aaron-rodgers-1790684717?utm_campaign=socialflow_deadspin_twitter&utm_source=deadspin_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
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Green Bay is again a threat. All of that weak sauce about Rodgers and MM earlier failed to take into account injuries and getting AR to be able to trust the new guys. Completely irrational, but that is what fans do.
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Green Bay is again a threat. All of that weak sauce about Rodgers and MM earlier failed to take into account injuries and getting AR to be able to trust the new guys. Completely irrational, but that is what fans do.
In reality, I think it was only one "expert" who was attacking Rodgers for not being a leader.
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Green Bay is again a threat. All of that weak sauce about Rodgers and MM earlier failed to take into account injuries and getting AR to be able to trust the new guys. Completely irrational, but that is what fans do.
I think offensively it had more to do with redesigning the offense than injuries.
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Looking over the playoff bracket, has a team ever had an easier draw to the Championship Game than the Pats?
They get either the Dolphins, Texans or Raiders. QB-wise, that's Matt Moore, Tom Savage or Connor Cook.
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My lord, Sam Darnold, I'd be ecstatic for the Bears to go 0-16 next year. That dude will be an NFL STUD.
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Aaron Rodgers sucks. Mike McCarthy sucks.
Blah blah effen blah.
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My lord, Sam Darnold, I'd be ecstatic for the Bears to go 0-16 next year. That dude will be an NFL STUD.
The same could have been said about Christian Hackenburg after his freshman year. Don't get me wrong I think Darnold could be a very good NFL QB but I wouldn't crown him just yet
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The same could have been said about Christian Hackenburg after his freshman year. Don't get me wrong I think Darnold could be a very good NFL QB but I wouldn't crown him just yet
Different guys altogether, Darnold has the bloodlines, pedigree already. He also has "It", you know it when you see it. I never thought that about Hackenburg. I'm not basing this off one game either, I watched Darnold since the Washington game, dude is playing like a pro.
A lot can happen, but I believe he will be an All Pro NFL QB on a yearly basis.
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In Sunday night's Lions/Packers game, early on when the players were introducing themselves, NBC scrolled the player's positional rank in the NFL. Nobody on Detroit's defense was higher than 25 and a couple were over 100. Which confirms what I thought. Detroit has done it with smoke, mirrors, and Matthew Stafford. And Stafford hasn't been the same since he injured his finger.
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In Sunday night's Lions/Packers game, early on when the players were introducing themselves, NBC scrolled the player's positional rank in the NFL. Nobody on Detroit's defense was higher than 25 and a couple were over 100. Which confirms what I thought. Detroit has done it with smoke, mirrors, and Matthew Stafford. And Stafford hasn't been the same since he injured his finger.
The Lions remind me of the 2001 Bears, who went 13-3 with smoke, mirrors and some fortunate bounces. Would anyone really be surprised if this same core of Lions went 5-11 next season?
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The Lions remind me of the 2001 Bears, who went 13-3 with smoke, mirrors and some fortunate bounces. Would anyone really be surprised if this same core of Lions went 5-11 next season?
THat's the team that got bounced by the Eagles or Panthers?
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The Lions remind me of the 2001 Bears, who went 13-3 with smoke, mirrors and some fortunate bounces. Would anyone really be surprised if this same core of Lions went 5-11 next season?
Depends on the draft and the health of Abdullah, Ansah, and Levy. If those three had been healthy all year and playing to their ability, Detroit probably wins two more games and doesn't need all of the 4th quarter comebacks. But injuries are part of it. (see: Green Bay defense)
Health for those three, and a couple of defensive playmakers.
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THat's the team that got bounced by the Eagles or Panthers?
Abolutely smoked by a young (and still mobile) Mcnabb and the Eagles I believe. That was the Jim Miller led Bears, where safety Mike Brown won back to back games in OT against the 49ers and Browns, with two tipped passes for two pick 6s.
That season is probably my earliest sports memory, I was like 7 or 8 at the time.
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My lord, Sam Darnold, I'd be ecstatic for the Bears to go 0-16 next year. That dude will be an NFL STUD.
Are you sure you didn't mean 16-0?
https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/alshon-jeffery-guarantees-3-13-bears-will-win-super-bowl-next-yearr-010117%3Famp%3Dtrue
Hilarious.
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The Lions remind me of the 2001 Bears, who went 13-3 with smoke, mirrors and some fortunate bounces. Would anyone really be surprised if this same core of Lions went 5-11 next season?
They got two things going against them.
1. Law of Regression.
2. All of those late game heroics tend to go back to normal the next year.
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Are you sure you didn't mean 16-0?
https://www.google.com/amp/www.foxsports.com/nfl/story/alshon-jeffery-guarantees-3-13-bears-will-win-super-bowl-next-yearr-010117%3Famp%3Dtrue
Hilarious.
Alshon will be an Eagle, Bengal, or Titan next year.
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Caldwell will be brought back next year for the Lions. On balance, he has earned it. Playoffs 2 out of 3 years. Best winning % of any Lions coach during the Super Bowl era. Detroit made the playoffs getting nothing from Ansah, Levy, or Abdullah. With no running game, no pass rush, and no linebacker play to speak of. Getting torched by tight ends. With a young, beat up offensive line. Dude actually deserves a plaque.
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Caldwell will be brought back next year for the Lions. On balance, he has earned it. Playoffs 2 out of 3 years. Best winning % of any Lions coach during the Super Bowl era. Detroit made the playoffs getting nothing from Ansah, Levy, or Abdullah. With no running game, no pass rush, and no linebacker play to speak of. Getting torched by tight ends. With a young, beat up offensive line. Dude actually deserves a plaque.
I don't think most people have any idea of how good Caldwell is. They just see an expressionless statue on the sidelines and use that image to cloud their judgement.
As a GB fan, I am all for the Lions firing Caldwell.
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I don't think most people have any idea of how good Caldwell is. They just see an expressionless statue on the sidelines and use that image to cloud their judgement.
As a GB fan, I am all for the Lions firing Caldwell.
Lane Kiffin to Detroit
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Ugh. There's the Mac TO I hate to see. Especially there. Give up the extra 4 seconds, have them come out of the 2 minute warning, see what happens on 2nd and 9, and if you get it to 3rd and long with a running clock then take a TO. That's so dumb to take one on second and 9 going into the 2 minute warning.
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Well, 3 for 3 on Hail Marys hohum. Should make his half stats look a little better. Skip Bay less just blew a vein in his forehead all over whoever was sitting next to him
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Pretty unfookin' believable for da non-leader, hey?
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just gonna have to run the table, it's what's for dinner hey
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Four runaway playoff games. Yawn
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Ass kickin's are good if you're puttin' da 10D to da buttocks, ai na?
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Ass kickin's are good if you're puttin' da 10D to da buttocks, ai na?
10D ?? that ain't no long johnny allen edmonds 'ey
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10 Prada baby, hey?
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so how much to send the cowboy's receivers on a little complimentary boat trip tomorrow, say until friday or saturday
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(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C1sLmOOXAAAoQjH.jpg:large)
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The Patriots (home) are -16 against Houston (away).
This is the largest playoff point spread since 1998.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/texans-patriots-point-spread-is-huge-but-its-not-the-largest-playoff-spread-ever-214611908.html
* At the end of the 1998 season the Arizona Cardinals, led by Jake Plummer, upset the Dallas Cowboys in the wild-card round and then were 16.5-point underdogs at the Minnesota Vikings, who went 15-1 with rookie receiver Randy Moss. The Vikings won by 20 in that divisional round win.
* In most famous upset in NFL history, the New York Jets were 18-point underdogs in Super Bowl III and beat the Baltimore Colts 16-7.
* In the largest spread in NFL playoff history, the San Francisco 49ers were 19-point favorites over the San Diego Chargers in Super Bowl XXIX. The 49ers won 49-26.
What do you do with this line?
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The Patriots (home) are -16 against Houston (away).
This is the largest playoff point spread since 1998.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/texans-patriots-point-spread-is-huge-but-its-not-the-largest-playoff-spread-ever-214611908.html
* At the end of the 1998 season the Arizona Cardinals, led by Jake Plummer, upset the Dallas Cowboys in the wild-card round and then were 16.5-point underdogs at the Minnesota Vikings, who went 15-1 with rookie receiver Randy Moss. The Vikings won by 20 in that divisional round win.
* In most famous upset in NFL history, the New York Jets were 18-point underdogs in Super Bowl III and beat the Baltimore Colts 16-7.
* In the largest spread in NFL playoff history, the San Francisco 49ers were 19-point favorites over the San Diego Chargers in Super Bowl XXIX. The 49ers won 49-26.
What do you do with this line?
Too big for me to bet. But if forced at gunpoint to place a bet, I'd go with The Brady Bunch.
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Clay with a sack, 2 forced fumbles, and a fumble recovery...in one play.
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The Patriots (home) are -16 against Houston (away).
This is the largest playoff point spread since 1998.
http://sports.yahoo.com/news/texans-patriots-point-spread-is-huge-but-its-not-the-largest-playoff-spread-ever-214611908.html
* At the end of the 1998 season the Arizona Cardinals, led by Jake Plummer, upset the Dallas Cowboys in the wild-card round and then were 16.5-point underdogs at the Minnesota Vikings, who went 15-1 with rookie receiver Randy Moss. The Vikings won by 20 in that divisional round win.
* In most famous upset in NFL history, the New York Jets were 18-point underdogs in Super Bowl III and beat the Baltimore Colts 16-7.
* In the largest spread in NFL playoff history, the San Francisco 49ers were 19-point favorites over the San Diego Chargers in Super Bowl XXIX. The 49ers won 49-26.
What do you do with this line?
Gonna be in Vegas this weekend, going to be very tempted to roll the dice on this line.
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Gonna be in Vegas this weekend, going to be very tempted to roll the dice on this line.
Which way?
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Which way?
On the Texans. That feels like way too many points to give plus Belicheck isn't motivated to destroy Houston like he would say Denver or the Jets.
I think it's probably a comfortable win for the Patriots and they pull starters in the 4th and Houston backdoor covers
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On the Texans. That feels like way too many points to give plus Belicheck isn't motivated to destroy Houston like he would say Denver or the Jets.
I think it's probably a comfortable win for the Patriots and they pull starters in the 4th and Houston backdoor covers
Quite possible ... but I don't think I'd have enough courage to bet that's what happens. Good luck!
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Clay with a sack, 2 forced fumbles, and a fumble recovery...in one play.
Still amazes me that at that level, in the playoffs,giants players were still just standing around letting that ball sit on the ground. Gave me flashbacks to the GB v Chi game for a chance to go to playoffs a few years back, and then I threw up a little bit.
edited. Thanks Wades.
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Still amazes me that at that level, in the playoffs,giants players were still just standing around letting that ball sit on the ground. Gave me flashbacks to the NFC title game, and then I threw up a little bit.
I'm pretty sure that was the last game of the regular season that got the Packers into the post season.
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I'm pretty sure that was the last game of the regular season that got the Packers into the post season.
Yea my bad. You are absolutely correct.
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Hilarious.
What's actually interesting to me is that he seemed to be pretty level headed at the end of the game and handled the press conference well. Apparently they were drug testing all the Giants after the game yesterday. Has me thinking...maybe something from the boat trip was still in his system and he knows it...
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giants "allegedly" trash their jet on way home from green bay. how old are these guys?
http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2017/01/09/new-york-giants-trash-airplane/
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Giants talk is so annoying.
Cowboys had a drug/whore house during their dynasty.
Lawrence Taylor was a known partier, including drugs, during his prime.
Jordan would be at casinos till early morning on days before games.
NY Mets caused $60k of damage to a plane during the playoffs.
Etc, etc, etc.
And yet, everywhere you look right now, people, who watched the "good old days" sports/athletes, are criticizing the Giants' behavior.
Make American Sports/Athletes Great Again... I guess
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Giants talk is so annoying.
Cowboys had a drug/whore house during their dynasty.
Lawrence Taylor was a known partier, including drugs, during his prime.
Jordan would be at casinos till early morning on days before games.
NY Mets caused $60k of damage to a plane during the playoffs.
Etc, etc, etc.
And yet, everywhere you look right now, people, who watched the "good old days" sports/athletes, are criticizing the Giants' behavior.
Make American Sports/Athletes Great Again... I guess
Come on! How do you leave Brett Favre off this list?! ;)
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Giants talk is so annoying.
Cowboys had a drug/whore house during their dynasty.
Lawrence Taylor was a known partier, including drugs, during his prime.
Jordan would be at casinos till early morning on days before games.
NY Mets caused $60k of damage to a plane during the playoffs.
Etc, etc, etc.
And yet, everywhere you look right now, people, who watched the "good old days" sports/athletes, are criticizing the Giants' behavior.
Make American Sports/Athletes Great Again... I guess
All true.
The Giants WRs spending their off day in Miami didn't bother me even 1/10th of 1%.
However ...
If you are those WRs and you are smart, you know that this will be a story because the media and fans always overreact. And you also know that if you then don't perform well, you will be ripped a new one (and we all know how painful that can be).
Jordan would gamble until the wee hours. Then he would score 40+ points and lead the Bulls to victory. So only dopes would criticize his gambling (and dopes did just that). If he had gone 3-for-22 and the Bulls had lost, even if the gambling had nothing to do with it he would have set himself up for even more criticism.
As always, the results matter.
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From the "Fans are idiots" file. There is a small but very vocal contingent of Lions fans who want to not re-sign Matthew Stafford to a long term contract. Arguing that he is holding the team back and that Detroit can get a better QB for less through free agency or the draft. That is as dumb as blaming the Packers struggles on AR. And 20 teams will be more than willing to give him $25 mil per year. If any of those teams have a running game, offensive line, receivers who catch the ball, or defense, Stafford could take them to a Super Bowl.
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But is Matt Stafford a "leader?"
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But is Matt Stafford a "leader?"
He's the only one they have.
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From the "Fans are idiots" file. There is a small but very vocal contingent of Lions fans who want to not re-sign Matthew Stafford to a long term contract. Arguing that he is holding the team back and that Detroit can get a better QB for less through free agency or the draft. That is as dumb as blaming the Packers struggles on AR. And 20 teams will be more than willing to give him $25 mil per year. If any of those teams have a running game, offensive line, receivers who catch the ball, or defense, Stafford could take them to a Super Bowl.
20 is a bit extreme, and I for one don't think any team will give him $25MM a year except Detroit. I would even be willing to place a wager on this. A small one. Unless you are saying 20 teams would give AR $25MM and then I 100% agree.
AFC East: Buffalo, NYJ
AFC North: Cleveland
AFC West: None, SD?
AFC South: Jax
NFC East: None
NFC North: CHI,
NFC West: SF, ARI(?)
NFC South: None
I see less than 10 teams that would be willing and able to do this.
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Bump,
Go Hawks
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Bump,
Go Hawks
Whoops. Five games, five blowouts.
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NFL Memes
@NFL_Memes
REPORT: Houston man accused of robbing local football team of $72 million dollars.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CvlOQ5zVYAANk2s.jpg)
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The quality in games for the playoffs have been absolute crap so far. I at least expected the Falcons game and the Giants game to be close.
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Osweiler is like Chuck Knoblauch trying to throw to first. I've seen bad QB play in the NFL, but he's in his own league for how awful his throws are combined with his decision making. Watching him drop back to pass is anguishing.
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Kid kinda reminds me of #6 in the maze and orange, hey?
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NFL Memes
@NFL_Memes
REPORT: Houston man accused of robbing local football team of $72 million dollars.
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CvlOQ5zVYAANk2s.jpg)
Yeah, like it is Osweiler's fault that Houston management is so stupid. The Broncos got rid of Osweiler so they could bring in Mark Sanchez. They had NO QB - yet they couldn't wait to dump the stiff.
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Kid kinda reminds me of #6 in the maze and orange, hey?
I'm not trying to be mean, but it's not even close. Osweiler is incompetent and not an NFL caliber starting QB, beat up Cutler all you want, but to compare the two is football dumb.
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In the playoffs, every decision, every play matters. Those last 4 minutes, everything made a difference. Spiking on 1st & 10, not running Zeke there, Cowboys kicking it into the end zone instead and not burning clock, Rodgers hanging on to the football (gigantic)...man, what a game. Pack worthy to move on, should be hell of an NFC title game.
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Great win. Congrats to all you Packer fans.
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Holy crap. Can finally breathe again...
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This really bothered me too, why didn't the Cowboys attempt a free kick at the end of the first half? Absolutely nothing to lose, would have been a free 60 yard attempt.
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I kept saying they shouldn't punt it.
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:)
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This really bothered me too, why didn't the Cowboys attempt a free kick at the end of the first half? Absolutely nothing to lose, would have been a free 60 yard attempt.
Is that still in the rule book? I thought the same thing.
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Is that still in the rule book? I thought the same thing.
It is, last time used in the NFL (I believe) was by Harbaugh's Niners in 2013.
That was as perfect a situation to use it, I thought that was why Beasley fair caught it actually.
Hell of a game, felt like I needed a smoke after it (I don't smoke either).
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This really bothered me too, why didn't the Cowboys attempt a free kick at the end of the first half? Absolutely nothing to lose, would have been a free 60 yard attempt.
And if I remember correctly, he caught it at the 40, so it would have been 70 yards, and without a tee, I believe.
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And if I remember correctly, he caught it at the 40, so it would have been 70 yards, and without a tee, I believe.
Nope, 70 yards with a tee. Would have been a free field goal..so much coaching stupidity on display at the end of the 1st half but at least my team turned out to be less dumb.
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Nope, 70 yards with a tee. Would have been a free field goal..so much coaching stupidity on display at the end of the 1st half but at least my team turned out to be less dumb.
Rulebook says no tee permitted.
http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/nfl-playoffs-cowboys-pass-on-chance-for-points-via-obscure-fair-catch-kick-rule/
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Nope, 70 yards with a tee. Would have been a free field goal..so much coaching stupidity on display at the end of the 1st half but at least my team turned out to be less dumb.
No tee on a free kick.
I thought he caught it around his own 45, but yeah, 65 to 70 yard kick with no defense rushing is still worth it.
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No tee on a free kick.
I thought he caught it around his own 45, but yeah, 65 to 70 yard kick with no defense rushing is still worth it.
No rush, but I believe they can still be returned if the kick is short
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Based on similar logic by the OP of a recent MU basketball thread, the Packers should be so humiliated they blew a big lead that they shouldn't even feel good about advancing to the NFC title game.
They should fire McCarthy. And Wojo, too, while they're at it.
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Go watch the replay of Crosby's second FG... watch the fans - or should I say fan - behind the crossbar on the concourse. Hopefully she made it out of Cowboys Stadium unscathed, though if she is from Texas, her school board is likely meeting today to vote on expelling her.
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(https://scontent-ord1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/16105508_1425824130761230_3481158724431943468_n.png?oh=7015d6a266e5e427272d1baea8e07e5c&oe=5908BA9A)
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The Packers are 10-2 this season with Jerad Cook in the lineup. He has been every bit as important as I thought he would be. He can split the seam and opens everything up for this offense. I don't say this often about GBP free agents, but I would be shocked if he isn't back with the Pack next year. And he should be.
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Go watch the replay of Crosby's second FG... watch the fans - or should I say fan - behind the crossbar on the concourse. Hopefully she made it out of Cowboys Stadium unscathed, though if she is from Texas, her school board is likely meeting today to vote on expelling her.
I did, what am I looking for?
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I did, what am I looking for?
A little girl in a green dress jumping up and down amongst the dejected as the ball goes through the uprights. Couldn't be more than 11-12 years old, if that.
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A little girl in a green dress jumping up and down amongst the dejected as the ball goes through the uprights. Couldn't be more than 11-12 years old, if that.
Dallas fans, while unsufferable, are not bad on average. Most fans - especially in the NFC North - are great. The following fans are the worst, in no particular order - except Philly, which is the worst:
*Philadelphia
*New England
*Seattle
*Green Bay (see https://twitter.com/JSComments (https://twitter.com/JSComments))
Honorable mention: 49ers, but I give them a pass because they've been rendered benign at the hands of their clueless ownership
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This kid on my course tried to tell me that the Bears and Packers would move to London before the Patriots, and he was completely serious. I was so flabbergasted I had no clue how to respond, besides of course, showing him the Patriots record prior to 2001.
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This kid on my course tried to tell me that the Bears and Packers would move to London before the Patriots, and he was completely serious. I was so flabbergasted I had no clue how to respond, besides of course, showing him the Patriots record prior to 2001.
Bears, Packers or Patriots moving to London is tantamount to discussing whether it's going to be -5, -6 or -7 degrees in hell.
That said, your coursemate should be educated as to the ownership structure of the Packers so as to not make such asinine comments in the future.
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Bears, Packers or Patriots moving to London is tantamount to discussing whether it's going to be -5, -6 or -7 degrees in hell.
That said, your coursemate should be educated as to the ownership structure of the Packers so as to not make such asinine comments in the future.
We were trying to rank all the teams in the NFL in the order they would leave for London after the Chargers recent move.
But, I will say this. I think the Jaguars move to London sooner rather than later. They play there pretty much every year, their owner also owns Fulham, a soccer team in West London, and it's as reasonable as you get from a geographic perspective considering the North East teams will not be one of the ones moving.
That and I went to two of the games and the atmosphere, even for some crap teams was unbelievable. Louder than most regular NFL stadiums any given Sunday. The fanbase it there, its just a matter of when now.
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We were trying to rank all the teams in the NFL in the order they would leave for London after the Chargers recent move.
But, I will say this. I think the Jaguars move to London sooner rather than later. They play there pretty much every year, their owner also owns Fulham, a soccer team in West London, and it's as reasonable as you get from a geographic perspective considering the North East teams will not be one of the ones moving.
That and I went to two of the games and the atmosphere, even for some crap teams was unbelievable. Louder than most regular NFL stadiums any given Sunday. The fanbase it there, its just a matter of when now.
The crapty AFC South deserves this.
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We were trying to rank all the teams in the NFL in the order they would leave for London after the Chargers recent move.
But, I will say this. I think the Jaguars move to London sooner rather than later. They play there pretty much every year, their owner also owns Fulham, a soccer team in West London, and it's as reasonable as you get from a geographic perspective considering the North East teams will not be one of the ones moving.
That and I went to two of the games and the atmosphere, even for some crap teams was unbelievable. Louder than most regular NFL stadiums any given Sunday. The fanbase it there, its just a matter of when now.
I might be wrong but I really don't see it. The vast majority of owners would have to agree and none of them want to fly over the pond. The Packers have essentially refused for years when regularly approached by the league because of their worldwide popularity even for a 'road' game. I think I heard that they have finally agreed to do it once like in 2020 if the league basically agrees never to ask again. Absolutely forget about giving up a Lambeau home game.
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I might be wrong but I really don't see it. The vast majority of owners would have to agree and none of them want to fly over the pond. The Packers have essentially refused for years when regularly approached by the league because of their worldwide popularity even for a 'road' game. I think I heard that they have finally agreed to do it once like in 2020 if the league basically agrees never to ask again. Absolutely forget about giving up a Lambeau home game.
The crazy thing is though, its only about a 2 hour difference from Green Bay to LA than from Green Bay to London. If you look at it from an east coast perspective, the time difference is minimal from a West Coast trip, only four or five hours depending on the time of the season.
Money talks, and London brings in a whole lotta cash.
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I think it would be pretty cool to have joint city franchises. The Jacksonville/London Jaguars where 6 games are in Jacksonville and 2 are in London. Also, hold training camp in London. This gives London fans a "team" to cheer for when hosting games. This will give advantage to the Jaguars and help build a true fan base.
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The crazy thing is though, its only about a 2 hour difference from Green Bay to LA than from Green Bay to London. If you look at it from an east coast perspective, the time difference is minimal from a West Coast trip, only four or five hours depending on the time of the season.
Money talks, and London brings in a whole lotta cash.
I think the issue has more to do with the ability to get talent. Money talks, yes, but it's going to be harder to get players to move across the pond due to a plethora of reasons, most notably taxes and the fact that you'd either spend: A) the entire season in the US during road games (I doubt anyone flies back between consecutive road games) or B) on a plane I just don't see it. My 2 cents - let a league with a better global footprint do it first or ask yourself why they haven't.
I tend to be in the Mark Cuban camp w/ respect to the NFL, but with a more tempered outlook. I love this game and I am a sucker for it, but I have no doubts they're spending too much time, money and resources in expanding without bolstering what's left at home. They're too big to fail, but you've seen ratings suffer for a variety of reasons (no, not the lack of touchdown celebrations (but seriously, let them play)), and I think there's work to do on the homefront.
I think it would be pretty cool to have joint city franchises. The Jacksonville/London Jaguars where 6 games are in Jacksonville and 2 are in London. Also, hold training camp in London. This gives London fans a "team" to cheer for when hosting games. This will give advantage to the Jaguars and help build a true fan base.
Conceptually cool, but it would be disgusting to see what this would do to stadium financing trends. 2 cities perpetually pitted against one another,albeit one being international and - IMO - unsustainable as mentioned above.
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The crazy thing is though, its only about a 2 hour difference from Green Bay to LA than from Green Bay to London. If you look at it from an east coast perspective, the time difference is minimal from a West Coast trip, only four or five hours depending on the time of the season.
Money talks, and London brings in a whole lotta cash.
That's not true at all. ORD to LHR is an 8hr flight... ORD to LAX is 4. Perhaps the time difference is minimal to LAX vs LHR from the east coast, but not from CST and points west.
The max anyone is flying now is 6 hrs. Add LHR and five teams are flying nearly 12 hours to London.
Relocation to U.K. isn't going to happen. Though the split Marty proposed is intriguing.
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That's not true at all. ORD to LHR is an 8hr flight... ORD to LAX is 4. Perhaps the time difference is minimal to LAX vs LHR from the east coast, but not from CST and points west.
The max anyone is flying now is 6 hrs. Add LHR and five teams are flying nearly 12 hours to London.
Relocation to U.K. isn't going to happen. Though the split Marty proposed is intriguing.
Really? Maybe I just got lucky on my flight but it took me 7 hours to get to London from Chicago and close to 5 to LAX when I went a few years ago.
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I think it would be pretty cool to have joint city franchises. The Jacksonville/London Jaguars
Kinda like the Kansas City-Omaha Kings.
Long live Tiny Archibald and Sam Lacey!
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There will never be a franchise based in London (unless other European cities have one also).
What agent would ever send his street free agent to London for a Tuesday tryout? No one ever would. NFL would have to compensate London players differently, and NFLPA would never agree to it. If a London team hosted a playoff game, it would be a logistical catastrophe for the opposing team and the tv networks.
It'll never happen.
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There will never be a franchise based in London (unless other European cities have one also).
What agent would ever send his street free agent to London for a Tuesday tryout? No one ever would. NFL would have to compensate London players differently, and NFLPA would never agree to it. If a London team hosted a playoff game, it would be a logistical catastrophe for the opposing team and the tv networks.
It'll never happen.
Never is a long time, Dish, but I tend to agree with your reasons for it being highly unlikely.
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A couple of games here and there works fine, but there would never be the long-term support to sustain a team in London. Soccer and football seasons overlap, and soccer is way too popular for a football team to take center stage. I can't recall where I read it, but European soccer teams get MUCH better ratings in the US than NFL teams get in Europe.
And before someone makes the argument that London is huge and can support both, I have two words for you: Los Angeles.
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A couple of games here and there works fine, but there would never be the long-term support to sustain a team in London. Soccer and football seasons overlap, and soccer is way too popular for a football team to take center stage. I can't recall where I read it, but European soccer teams get MUCH better ratings in the US than NFL teams get in Europe.
And before someone makes the argument that London is huge and can support both, I have two words for you: Los Angeles.
I think that has to do with television packages more than anything. I actually get more premier league games on television in Chicago than NFL games and even more games then I do in London.
Also, the cable company that puts out the NFL games is ridiculously overpriced. Cable in the UK is very odd because channels are mutually exclusive to the cable company you have. So imagine (for arguments sake, just bare with me) buying cable produced by ESPN, you wouldnt get any of the games on FS1 and vice versa.
Its really hard to show the popularity of the sport here if you dont live here and while soccer will always reign supreme, I really do think it is not as a logistical nightmare as people think, and do think it will happen at some point in the near future.
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I'm just pissed they moved the London games to normal NFL starting times. Those 9am EST games were a fun watch.
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The crazy thing is though, its only about a 2 hour difference from Green Bay to LA than from Green Bay to London. If you look at it from an east coast perspective, the time difference is minimal from a West Coast trip, only four or five hours depending on the time of the season.
Money talks, and London brings in a whole lotta cash.
Chicago to LA is 1500 air miles. Chicago to London is over 4000.
Another factor is that London is also 5 full hours ahead of Eastern time.
It isn't happening except on a 'guest appearance' basis.
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There is an international market that is just a stadium away from being completely viable as NFL city. Toronto.
And that's about it.
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I'm just pissed they moved the London games to normal NFL starting times. Those 9am EST games were a fun watch.
+1 on this. Nothing enables me to forego my responsibilities to society like a 9am start time. Especially a 9am start time for games airing on Twitter
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There is an international market that is just a stadium away from being completely viable as NFL city. Toronto.
And that's about it.
Supposedly they NFL and CFL has an agreement they won't encroach on each other's market. Hence that is why the Bills only play an occasional game in Toronto.
That being said, US football is very popular in Canada. My family friends in Ontario go to one Bills game a year and their kids play for their Canadian high school team.
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Supposedly they NFL and CFL has an agreement they won't encroach on each other's market. Hence that is why the Bills only play an occasional game in Toronto.
That being said, US football is very popular in Canada. My family friends in Ontario go to one Bills game a year and their kids play for their Canadian high school team.
The family that owns (almost) the entire row behind my uncle's former seats at Lambeau must either be from Canada or have a whole bunch of friends in the Great White North because every game we'd hear both "Go. Pack. Go. Eh?" and "Blessed are the Cheesemakers!"
Seriously... I met a lot of Canadians at Packers games in those seats. Aside from one couple (who I believe were local), it was a different group of Canucks every game and most were decked out in more green and gold than many of the "cheesemakers" in attendance.
Does that mean NFL should expand to Canada? Nope.
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Dirty Bird!
wow, Green Bae looks awful. Sorry we lost our QB and RB to injury and weren't able to rep the North as Division Champs this year... next year, we'll be back. Skol Vikings!
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Dirty Bird!
wow, Green Bae looks awful. Sorry we lost our QB and RB to injury and weren't able to rep the North as Division Champs this year... next year, we'll be back. Skol Vikings!
Youll appreciate this, Anthony Barr was at a fan forum in London and he sat on a cheese head and then proceeded to kick it off stage.
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Dirty Bird!
wow, Green Bae looks awful. Sorry we lost our QB and RB to injury and weren't able to rep the North as Division Champs this year... next year, we'll be back. Skol Vikings!
Yawn.
Youll appreciate this, Anthony Barr was at a fan forum in London and he sat on a cheese head and then proceeded to kick it off stage.
This is why the Queens' trophy case is empty.
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Bad day to channel your inner Detroit Lion.
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That really sucks for TJ Lang. Dude was about to get paid too.
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Ass kickin', hey?
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Lindsey has had a really terrible game, his shotgun snaps have been horrendous all afternoon.
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Rodgers completely losing his cool right now.
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Mofo's have dropped how many passes? Fumbled inside da 10, missed a chip-shot fg, gotten injured fallin' inta each utter. Amazed #12 had any cool left ta lose, ai na?
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I sense that after an 8 week run the Packers simply ran out of gas and healthy players. Next year.
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I personally don't blame Rodgers one iota for this game. At least 5 drops, a missed 41 yarder, the Ripkowski fumble, Evans and Gunter dropping easy interceptions, Jake Ryan not being able to corral the fumble, and horrid defense. All these things are well outside of #12's control.
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Ya know, I really don't like the Patriots and I would like to see Atlanta win. But the thought of seeing Goodell having to hand over the trophy to Brady is such a satisfying thought.
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I personally don't blame Rodgers one iota for this game. At least 5 drops, a missed 41 yarder, the Ripkowski fumble, Evans and Gunter dropping easy interceptions, Jake Ryan not being able to corral the fumble, and horrid defense. All these things are well outside of #12's control.
The Falcons are simply a better football team. Their quarterback is just as good as the Packers, their WRs are just as good as the Packers (when the Packers are healthy...much better when they're dinged up like this), Packers have a better TE, OLs are a push (today ATL's was far better...then again could just be the lack of a Packers rush), RBs it's not even close to ATL's favor, and D at every level it's not even close in favor of ATL. Their weakness was special teams, and they even beat the Packers at that today (the rare occasion they had to use them).
Ya know, I really don't like the Patriots and I would like to see Atlanta win. But the thought of seeing Goodell having to hand over the trophy to Brady is such a satisfying thought.
True. (Then again, I like the Patriots)
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Yes, I am a broken record.
But Capers needs to go. Since Rodgers has been a starter, New England has given up fewer point - usually by a substantial margin - than GB every single season except one. The one time GB had a better defense? They won the Super Bowl.
Funny how a QB is a better "leader" when he has a better defense.
We can't blame it on injuries either because it is every year and it is with different players. Dom has a million schemes - and none of them work. I never figured out this year what he was trying to do in any single game. Without a lucky streak of getting TOs in the last half dozen or so games, this team wouldn't have even sniffed the playoffs.
Sadly, he is not held accountable and we see the same thing year after year after year. And the collapses by his defense in big games is almost beyond comprehension. His defense turned Matt Barkley into a superstar. They gave up almost 700 yards to a stiff like Sam Bradford. Almost 750 yards to Matt Stafford. Only 2 teams gave up more yards to Blake Bortles all season.
The path to another SB is easy to see - but not when the biggest roadblock is Capers. And not when TT refuses to add any veteran depth to this defense.
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In the last 6 playoff games that ended their season...... GB has given up:
34 points per game
440 yards per game
Just an utter collapse EVERY year by Caper's defense when the season is on the line.
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In the last 6 playoff games that ended their season...... GB has given up:
34 points per game
440 yards per game
Just an utter collapse EVERY year by Caper's defense when the season is on the line.
Maybe the Packers should bring back the DC from 2010!
I agree that Capers stunk yesterday. I hate that Capers always goes soft, prevent defense with a big lead. But please don't ignore the defense has average talent. And when the entire CB group is injured & the best pash rushers are playing hurt the defense is really bad.
Unfortunately it is not as simple as just firing Capers and the defense is magically better.
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Yes, I am a broken record.
But Capers needs to go. Since Rodgers has been a starter, New England has given up fewer point - usually by a substantial margin - than GB every single season except one. The one time GB had a better defense? They won the Super Bowl.
Funny how a QB is a better "leader" when he has a better defense.
We can't blame it on injuries either because it is every year and it is with different players. Dom has a million schemes - and none of them work. I never figured out this year what he was trying to do in any single game. Without a lucky streak of getting TOs in the last half dozen or so games, this team wouldn't have even sniffed the playoffs.
Sadly, he is not held accountable and we see the same thing year after year after year. And the collapses by his defense in big games is almost beyond comprehension. His defense turned Matt Barkley into a superstar. They gave up almost 700 yards to a stiff like Sam Bradford. Almost 750 yards to Matt Stafford. Only 2 teams gave up more yards to Blake Bortles all season.
The path to another SB is easy to see - but not when the biggest roadblock is Capers. And not when TT refuses to add any veteran depth to this defense.
#1 GB isn't on the Patriots' level. No one is. Not sure why you're making that defensive comparison.
#2 GB got shut out in the 1st half yesterday. The D was bad but the O wasn't good either. In 2nd half, was it Capers' fault that Julio Jones caught a 15-yard pass and 2 DBs could barely even slow him down?
#3 The Packers' D is built around play-makers. Matthews, Clinton-Dix, Hyde, etc. None of those guys are great players but they can make big plays. When they don't make any big plays, the D looks awful. They also gamble a lot in an effort to make big plays which can be great for them or it can result in big plays for the other team. It's JJJ-style of D ;)
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Maybe the Packers should bring back the DC from 2010!
I'm missing your point, I think. The defense has been awful for 6 years now. But keep the DC because it was good 7 years ago?
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Do Pack fans think the franchise is wasting Rodgers' talent? I think Rodgers makes his OL, WR and TE much better than they are. But you would think with a once-in-a-generation talent like him at the most important position, they could make more Super Bowls in his tenure, assuming the rest of the roster is at least average.
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#1 GB isn't on the Patriots' level. No one is. Not sure why you're making that defensive comparison.
Thanks for making my point. How many years does he get to do even an adequate job?
I made the comparison because that defense is why NE has been to the SB so often. If they had Capers and GB's defense, Brady would be comparable to Marino - a great QB who almost never won the big one.
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I'm missing your point, I think. The defense has been awful for 6 years now. But keep the DC because it was good 7 years ago?
My point was to look at the personnel in 2010 vs now.
CB: Woodson, Williams, and Shields vs Hyde, Gunter, and Randall with a groin injury
Clay Matthews then vs now.
ILB: Bishop vs Ryan
DL: Jenkins, Raji, and Pickett vs Daniels, Guion, and Clark
Nick Collins at S...ok Ha-ha has filled the hole but is still a half step down from NC.
Now why was that 2010 defense so good? Compare the rosters and you shall see.
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Do Pack fans think the franchise is wasting Rodgers' talent? I think Rodgers makes his OL, WR and TE much better than they are. But you would think with a once-in-a-generation talent like him at the most important position, they could make more Super Bowls in his tenure, assuming the rest of the roster is at least average.
See Marino, Dan.
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Do Pack fans think the franchise is wasting Rodgers' talent? I think Rodgers makes his OL, WR and TE much better than they are. But you would think with a once-in-a-generation talent like him at the most important position, they could make more Super Bowls in his tenure, assuming the rest of the roster is at least average.
No. Way too much emphasis on individual QBs and Super Bowl success. Look at the other 52 guys on the roster. Put Rodgers on last year's Broncos or the Seattle team that won the SB and he'd win the Super Bowl those years.
And now with the salary cap you can't build a dynasty as easily. New England is the exception to the rule.
After the Pack beat Pitt and I was on my way home from a Super Bowl party, I actually thought "Enjoy this. Everyone assumed Favre would win another. This might be Rodgers' only one."
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Thanks for making my point. How many years does he get to do even an adequate job?
I made the comparison because that defense is why NE has been to the SB so often. If they had Capers and GB's defense, Brady would be comparable to Marino - a great QB who almost never won the big one.
You're not serious, are you? In 2011, NE had the 31st ranked D in the NFL and made it to the SB.
In the 6 games in which GB has been eliminated since the SB, Rodgers has completed under 60% of his passes, thrown 11 TDs, 6 INTs and has a QB rating of 81.9. It's not always on the D.
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Capers and Thompson both need to go. The defense has issues with both scheme and personnel. I get that Shields was hurt, but A) he always gets hurt and B) how do we not have a back-up plan other than an undrafted rookie trying to cover the best receiver in the league one on one. I don't think Capers can scheme effectively anymore and get it to sink in with his players, but the personnel he's asked to work with is pretty sad.
Another "conspiracy theory" how is it that year in and year out the Packers are one of, if not the most injured teams in the league?
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No. Way too much emphasis on individual QBs and Super Bowl success. Look at the other 52 guys on the roster. Put Rodgers on last year's Broncos or the Seattle team that won the SB and he'd win the Super Bowl those years.
And now with the salary cap you can't build a dynasty as easily. New England is the exception to the rule.
After the Pack beat Pitt and I was on my way home from a Super Bowl party, I actually thought "Enjoy this. Everyone assumed Favre would win another. This might be Rodgers' only one."
I think you misunderstood my point. I was saying that the organization doesn't do enough to surround him with talent on the rest of the roster. Thereby wasting his opportunity at success.
You win in the NFL with average roster + elite QB (colts with Manning, Patriots, packers) or elite roster + average QB (Ravens with dilfer, etc). Pack, I don't think, have even an average roster outside of Rodger.
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You're not serious, are you? In 2011, NE had the 31st ranked D in the NFL and made it to the SB.
In the 6 games in which GB has been eliminated since the SB, Rodgers has completed under 60% of his passes, thrown 11 TDs, 6 INTs and has a QB rating of 81.9. It's not always on the D.
We obviously rank defenses differently. It is all about points allowed. That's how winners are decided.
And NE was in the Top 20 (again, higher than GB) - not #31. And they were 1 point allowed per game away from being in the top 10 defenses that year.
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We obviously rank defenses differently. It is all about points allowed. That's how winners are decided.
And NE was in the Top 20 (again, higher than GB) - not #31. And they were 1 point allowed per game away from being in the top 10 defenses that year.
Yards allowed is typically used to rank defenses.
In 2011, NE was also 1 point allowed per game away from being the same as GB.
If you go with Points Allowed this season, GB was 21st while Atlanta was 27th.
If you go with DVOA, NE's D was 16th this season. GB: 20th, Atl: 27th.
The 27th-ranked D shut down a top 5 offense but the 21st-ranked D couldn't even slow down the #1 offense...or did the offense and QB performances play any part in that?
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I think you misunderstood my point. I was saying that the organization doesn't do enough to surround him with talent on the rest of the roster. Thereby wasting his opportunity at success.
You win in the NFL with average roster + elite QB (colts with Manning, Patriots, packers) or elite roster + average QB (Ravens with dilfer, etc). Pack, I don't think, have even an average roster outside of Rodger.
No, I understood. Can't resign everyone, bringing in FA don't always work out, draft is a crapshoot, as are injuries.
Every roster will have a hole on it. Health, matchups, and luck all play a role.
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Mofo's have dropped how many passes? Fumbled inside da 10, missed a chip-shot fg, gotten injured fallin' inta each utter. Amazed #12 had any cool left ta lose, ai na?
just catching up on some reading here-what the hell is going on out there???
very well stated warrior-great summary in 30 words-the end
next big question(s) is(are) ted thompson going to relinquish to wolf jr. and will we sign some free agents that will take the lombardi oath
"“If it doesn’t matter who wins or loses, then why do they keep score?”
“Winning is not a sometime thing…it’s an all the time thing. You don’t win once in a while…you don’t do the right thing once in a while…you do them right all the time. Winning is a habit.”
“Show me a good loser, and I’ll show you a loser.”
“Winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing.”
you can just hear the big I'm ein'er in unison at the end, I'm really a badger fan?
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http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2017/01/23/kyle-van-noy-patriots/96958134/
Why the Patriots are the Patriots and the Lions are the Lions. This guy sucked as a Lion. Traded mid-season to NE for a late round draft pick. Blows up.
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http://www.freep.com/story/sports/nfl/lions/2017/01/23/kyle-van-noy-patriots/96958134/
Why the Patriots are the Patriots and the Lions are the Lions. This guy sucked as a Lion. Traded mid-season to NE for a late round draft pick. Blows up.
Bellichick's greatest coaching ability is seeing what a guy does best and then putting him in a position to do just that.
Most coaches take a player and and make him change to their system. system
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http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18736686/chicago-bears-actively-shopping-jay-cutler
Good luck!
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http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18736686/chicago-bears-actively-shopping-jay-cutler
Good luck!
There's definitely a market for Cutler, in fact he's the most reasonably priced QB option on the market. Denver would be awkward, Miami, AZ, you could argue Dallas, Rams, Jets. He won't cost you as much draft capital as Garoppolo, not as much coin as Romo. Teams may force the Bears hand to cut him since it'd only cost the Bears $2 million. There's a lot of football stupid out there that thinks there's no takers for Cutler, but someone will pick him up, guaranteed.
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There's definitely a market for Cutler, in fact he's the most reasonably priced QB option on the market. Denver would be awkward, Miami, AZ, you could argue Dallas, Rams, Jets. He won't cost you as much draft capital as Garoppolo, not as much coin as Romo. Teams may force the Bears hand to cut him since it'd only cost the Bears $2 million. There's a lot of football stupid out there that thinks there's no takers for Cutler, but someone will pick him up, guaranteed.
No doubt he'd be picked up. I can't see them getting anything for him though.
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I think they would take a mesh bag full of footballs for him.
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There's definitely a market for Cutler, in fact he's the most reasonably priced QB option on the market. Denver would be awkward, Miami, AZ, you could argue Dallas, Rams, Jets. He won't cost you as much draft capital as Garoppolo, not as much coin as Romo. Teams may force the Bears hand to cut him since it'd only cost the Bears $2 million. There's a lot of football stupid out there that thinks there's no takers for Cutler, but someone will pick him up, guaranteed.
Agreed. There is always a coach or coordinator who thinks he can "save" a chronic underachiever. I just hope whoever gets him realizes that he has always been a coach killer.
Brady: 5 Super Bowls and 1 head coach ... Cutler: 1 career playoff victory and 4 head coaches (and counting).
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It's ultimately supply/demand, he's 33, maybe he starts for someone for a year, becomes a backup. If you trade for him, his contract is quite friendly, for what he'll cost you in salary for 2017 vs dead money, you could argue he's more valuable by trade (if you're planning on starting him). No one (that I know) is saying they'd get more than a mid/late round pick, but he does have value. Miami or AZ make the most sense to me.
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It's ultimately supply/demand, he's 33, maybe he starts for someone for a year, becomes a backup. If you trade for him, his contract is quite friendly, for what he'll cost you in salary for 2017 vs dead money, you could argue he's more valuable by trade (if you're planning on starting him). No one (that I know) is saying they'd get more than a mid/late round pick, but he does have value. Miami or AZ make the most sense to me.
Palmer stated that he's coming back to Arizona so I don't see that as a fit. Miami would be interesting given they have Gase and some weapons. 49ers could be an option to "reunite" Cutler with a Shanahan. The Jets could be interesting also as an old Bear reunion with Cutler, Marshall and Forte.
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I'd be surprised if Miami made a move, even though they certainly have the cap room. Tannehill was really starting to show signs of turning a corner last year before he got hurt. The numbers didn't end up dramatically better than the year before, but he was making the types of throws that there were rumblings he'd never be able to make. If there are doubts he'll fully recover from the knee injury, though, that's another story.
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Agreed. There is always a coach or coordinator who thinks he can "save" a chronic underachiever. I just hope whoever gets him realizes that he has always been a coach killer.
Brady: 5 Super Bowls and 1 head coach ... Cutler: 1 career playoff victory and 4 head coaches (and counting).
This works both ways. Brady has had 1 HC and 3 OCs, and one system in 16 seasons. Cutler has had far more inconsistency in both coaching and offensive gameplanning/systems. If you don't think that has a negative effect on the leader of your offense, I don't know what to tell you.
Nobody is saying Cutler is a franchise saver, but to keep pointing at him as the primary reason a franchise thats been a dumpster fire since the 2007 Super Bowl continues to be a dumpster fire as they cycle through GMs and coaches, well thats a bit short sighted in an attempt to gleefully bash him. He wasn't putting together a thin roster and drafting horribly, he's not Lebron.
Drew Brees is a HOF QB who plays for a well respected coach in Sean Payton, and hasnt had the injuries Cutler has had, and even they haven't been consistent playoff success stories outside of 2009 and until recently, haven't had a team like GB dominating their division.
TL/DR Cutler was disappointing, but the Bears have and have had a lot larger issues than just him as much as Wades and the media Cutler didn't play nice with want to pretend.
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This works both ways. Brady has had 1 HC and 3 OCs, and one system in 16 seasons. Cutler has had far more inconsistency in both coaching and offensive gameplanning/systems. If you don't think that has a negative effect on the leader of your offense, I don't know what to tell you.
Nobody is saying Cutler is a franchise saver, but to keep pointing at him as the primary reason a franchise thats been a dumpster fire since the 2007 Super Bowl continues to be a dumpster fire as they cycle through GMs and coaches, well thats a bit short sighted in an attempt to gleefully bash him. He wasn't putting together a thin roster and drafting horribly, he's not Lebron.
Drew Brees is a HOF QB who plays for a well respected coach in Sean Payton, and hasnt had the injuries Cutler has had, and even they haven't been consistent playoff success stories outside of 2009 and until recently, haven't had a team like GB dominating their division.
TL/DR Cutler was disappointing, but the Bears have and have had a lot larger issues than just him as much as Wades and the media Cutler didn't play nice with want to pretend.
Meh. When all Bears fans were backing Cutler with all their might and Bulls fans were backing Rose with all their might and calling me a hater, I was nailing them for exactly what they are.
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Exaggerate much? Cutler has been polarizing most of his career and most people that you refer to here have argued for exactly what he is, a good but not great QB who has played on a number of mediocre teams. Meanwhile you paint him as a cancerous player who hovers at the NFL equavalent of the Mendoza line and bring HOF QB contemporaries into the discussion.
But I don't know why I am doing this. Wades telling Chicago fans they are all idiots and know nothing about sports is as reliable an occurrence as a sunrise.
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Cutler is his own worst enemy and sets himself up for a lot of the schadenfreude directed his way. When the criticism gets sparked, it catches fire quickly because he has no friends to provide a counternarrative. Hard to feel bad for him, but the numbers bear out that he just hasn't been as bad as everyone likes to claim. Every full season he played in Chicago, his numbers have been about the same or better than his last season in Den. He never blossomed into the star people thought he might after those '08 and '09 seasons, but really never got worse than someone everyone thought had a ton of promise, either.
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Exaggerate much? Cutler has been polarizing most of his career and most people that you refer to here have argued for exactly what he is, a good but not great QB who has played on a number of mediocre teams. Meanwhile you paint him as a cancerous player who hovers at the NFL equavalent of the Mendoza line and bring HOF QB contemporaries into the discussion.
But I don't know why I am doing this. Wades telling Chicago fans they are all idiots and know nothing about sports is as reliable an occurrence as a sunrise.
Not sure I ever said anything you state in the 2nd paragraph. But I'll take your word for it!
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This works both ways. Brady has had 1 HC and 3 OCs, and one system in 16 seasons. Cutler has had far more inconsistency in both coaching and offensive gameplanning/systems. If you don't think that has a negative effect on the leader of your offense, I don't know what to tell you.
Nobody is saying Cutler is a franchise saver, but to keep pointing at him as the primary reason a franchise thats been a dumpster fire since the 2007 Super Bowl continues to be a dumpster fire as they cycle through GMs and coaches, well thats a bit short sighted in an attempt to gleefully bash him. He wasn't putting together a thin roster and drafting horribly, he's not Lebron.
Drew Brees is a HOF QB who plays for a well respected coach in Sean Payton, and hasnt had the injuries Cutler has had, and even they haven't been consistent playoff success stories outside of 2009 and until recently, haven't had a team like GB dominating their division.
TL/DR Cutler was disappointing, but the Bears have and have had a lot larger issues than just him as much as Wades and the media Cutler didn't play nice with want to pretend.
Many fair points here.
The Bears, indeed, have had lots of issues. And comparing anybody to Brady and the Patriots probably was silly on my part. Very good point on Brees, too. Just goes to show that it takes more than a QB. I loved watching Marino, but he made only one SB (in his second season) and never sniffed another.
Cutler is mediocrity personified. Not the worst QB out there, nowhere near the best. He appears to have the physical tools to be among the best but isn't, so that is frustrating for Bears fans. As for his numbers, which others alluded to, Cutler's problems transcend his numbers. Those who have watched him for a long time know that he has had a knack for turning possible victory into certain defeat with some of the most boneheaded decisions any QB can make. Disclosure: I am neither a Bear fan nor a Bear hater; my kids root for the Bears, although they are mostly fair-weather fans.
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Many fair points here.
The Bears, indeed, have had lots of issues. And comparing anybody to Brady and the Patriots probably was silly on my part. Very good point on Brees, too. Just goes to show that it takes more than a QB. I loved watching Marino, but he made only one SB (in his second season) and never sniffed another.
Cutler is mediocrity personified. Not the worst QB out there, nowhere near the best. He appears to have the physical tools to be among the best but isn't, so that is frustrating for Bears fans. As for his numbers, which others alluded to, Cutler's problems transcend his numbers. Those who have watched him for a long time know that he has had a knack for turning possible victory into certain defeat with some of the most boneheaded decisions any QB can make. Disclosure: I am neither a Bear fan nor a Bear hater; my kids root for the Bears, although they are mostly fair-weather fans.
Cutler is not nearly as bad as many have made him out to be, but he hasn't been nearly as good as his talent suggests he should be. I honestly think that if the Bears had hired Bruce Arians in 2013, we'd view Cutler differently today. Cutler played one season in Chicago with a legit NFL OC (2015) and he had an efficient, low-TO season. Unfortunately, they only had 1 WR and a bad defense and the team went 6-10. It has never really all come together for him in Chicago. Does he deserve some of the blame? Of course. However, in terms of the Bears' primary issues in the last 5-6 seasons, Cutler ranks pretty far down the list.
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Cutler is not nearly as bad as many have made him out to be, but he hasn't been nearly as good as his talent suggests he should be. I honestly think that if the Bears had hired Bruce Arians in 2013, we'd view Cutler differently today. Cutler played one season in Chicago with a legit NFL OC (2015) and he had an efficient, low-TO season. Unfortunately, they only had 1 WR and a bad defense and the team went 6-10. It has never really all come together for him in Chicago. Does he deserve some of the blame? Of course. However, in terms of the Bears' primary issues in the last 5-6 seasons, Cutler ranks pretty far down the list.
The last time I saw Cutler in person was when the Bears played the Panthers here in 2014. The Bears had the game well in hand and took a 21-7 lead behind Cutler, who was playing quite well. The Panthers got a little momentum, the Bears started tightening up and then, as predictably as a baby pooping in its diaper 2 hours after eating, Cutler threw a horrendous pass a mile over his receiver. The Panthers took the INT back 35 yards to set up the tying score and soon were cruising to victory. As I am a Panthers fan, I was quite pleased. My son was visiting and he lost the bet - he had to wear my Panthers jersey the entire next day. His astute analysis: "Effen Cutler."
Did Cutler "lose" the game for the Bears? Of course not. Forte had a key fumble, Gould missed a field goal that would have made it 24-7, etc, etc. And Cutler's numbers were fine (289 yds, 2 TD, 2 INT). But as has been his habit his entire career, he not only failed to make the big play he did the opposite - he made a big play for the Bears' opponent.
Put that propensity for big-moment failure together with his general dickishness, and I wouldn't want Cutler leading my team.
The other fun thing about that game: There were a lot of Bears fans in attendance, as is often the case in their road games. The guy in front of me was wearing a Bears Greg Olsen jersey. I asked him why he would want to remind himself and everybody else of that horrible trade. He just shrugged and said he liked the jersey. It wasn't as if he was an Olsen fan no matter what; he certainly wasn't cheering either of Olsen's 2 TDs that day! But I was, especially the winning score!
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The last time I saw Cutler in person was when the Bears played the Panthers here in 2014. The Bears had the game well in hand and took a 21-7 lead behind Cutler, who was playing quite well. The Panthers got a little momentum, the Bears started tightening up and then, as predictably as a baby pooping in its diaper 2 hours after eating, Cutler threw a horrendous pass a mile over his receiver. The Panthers took the INT back 35 yards to set up the tying score and soon were cruising to victory. As I am a Panthers fan, I was quite pleased. My son was visiting and he lost the bet - he had to wear my Panthers jersey the entire next day. His astute analysis: "Effen Cutler."
Did Cutler "lose" the game for the Bears? Of course not. Forte had a key fumble, Gould missed a field goal that would have made it 24-7, etc, etc. And Cutler's numbers were fine (289 yds, 2 TD, 2 INT). But as has been his habit his entire career, he not only failed to make the big play he did the opposite - he made a big play for the Bears' opponent.
Put that propensity for big-moment failure together with his general dickishness, and I wouldn't want Cutler leading my team.
I remember that game. Actually, here are the highlights...
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000406014/Week-5-Bears-vs-Panthers-highlights (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000406014/Week-5-Bears-vs-Panthers-highlights)
If you go to the 2:50ish mark, you'll see that Cutler's pass was to Santonio Holmes who had a DE dropping back to cover him. Holmes got bumped off his route or else it would have been a 20+ yard gain. It's easy to point the finger at the QB because he threw the pass but it was the right read and a good enough pass but the timing was thrown off.
Cutler made more than his fair share of ill-advised passes but this example is a fan trying to make a play fit the narrative that Cutler throws bad INTs.
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I remember that game. Actually, here are the highlights...
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000406014/Week-5-Bears-vs-Panthers-highlights (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000406014/Week-5-Bears-vs-Panthers-highlights)
If you go to the 2:50ish mark, you'll see that Cutler's pass was to Santonio Holmes who had a DE dropping back to cover him. Holmes got bumped off his route or else it would have been a 20+ yard gain. It's easy to point the finger at the QB because he threw the pass but it was the right read and a good enough pass but the timing was thrown off.
Cutler made more than his fair share of ill-advised passes but this example is a fan trying to make a play fit the narrative that Cutler throws bad INTs.
Oh now don't go throwing facts at me, you cad you!!!!
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Oh now don't go throwing facts at me, you cad you!!!!
Ha! My sole intention was to ruin that memory for you!
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Cutler is not nearly as bad as many have made him out to be, but he hasn't been nearly as good as his talent suggests he should be. I honestly think that if the Bears had hired Bruce Arians in 2013, we'd view Cutler differently today. Cutler played one season in Chicago with a legit NFL OC (2015) and he had an efficient, low-TO season. Unfortunately, they only had 1 WR and a bad defense and the team went 6-10. It has never really all come together for him in Chicago. Does he deserve some of the blame? Of course. However, in terms of the Bears' primary issues in the last 5-6 seasons, Cutler ranks pretty far down the list.
I think Jay has proven himself to be pretty bad. There would be a bunch of teams clamoring after him if he was even an average QB. He is not. His record stands on its own - or should I say, falls on its own.
He is what he is - a below average QB who is also not a leader.
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The Jets could be interesting also as an old Bear reunion with Cutler, Marshall and Forte.
I guess. Considering all of the titles the Bears won with those three guys. A bad QB + 2 over-the-hill skill players = ???
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I think Jay has proven himself to be pretty bad. There would be a bunch of teams clamoring after him if he was even an average QB. He is not. His record stands on its own - or should I say, falls on its own.
He is what he is - a below average QB who is also not a leader.
Pretty bad, below average. No, that's more hyperbole.
Jay's career record is 69-72. So, he's almost right at .500, which I would deem average. That makes sense, because Jay's an average QB. Pretty bad are guys like EJ Manuel, Mike Glennon, Brendan Weeden, etc.
I won't miss Jay as a Bears fan, but he sure does rile up Packers fans.
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Pretty bad, below average. No, that's more hyperbole.
Jay's career record is 69-72. So, he's almost right at .500, which I would deem average. That makes sense, because Jay's an average QB. Pretty bad are guys like EJ Manuel, Mike Glennon, Brendan Weeden, etc.
I won't miss Jay as a Bears fan, but he sure does rile up Packers fans.
Packers fans love Jay.
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Pretty bad, below average. No, that's more hyperbole.
Jay's career record is 69-72. So, he's almost right at .500, which I would deem average. That makes sense, because Jay's an average QB. Pretty bad are guys like EJ Manuel, Mike Glennon, Brendan Weeden, etc.
I won't miss Jay as a Bears fan, but he sure does rile up Packers fans.
Jay is pretty bad.
Guys like Manuel, Weeden, etc are just plain bad.
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Pretty bad, below average. No, that's more hyperbole.
Jay's career record is 69-72. So, he's almost right at .500, which I would deem average. That makes sense, because Jay's an average QB. Pretty bad are guys like EJ Manuel, Mike Glennon, Brendan Weeden, etc.
I won't miss Jay as a Bears fan, but he sure does rile up Packers fans.
That record embodies mediocrity.
And if I were a Packers fan (and I most definitely am not), I would LOVE Jay Cutler. He's 2-12 all-time against them!
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That record embodies mediocrity.
And if I were a Packers fan (and I most definitely am not), I would LOVE Jay Cutler. He's 2-12 all-time against them!
Bingo. We do love Jay. And I feel comfortable speaking for all Packers fans there.
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Bingo. We do love Jay. And I feel comfortable speaking for all Packers fans there.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZWrf6kgs7Q
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Bingo. We do love Jay. And I feel comfortable speaking for all Packers fans there.
Speak on, wades!
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Bingo. We do love Jay. And I feel comfortable speaking for all Packers fans there.
+1
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZWrf6kgs7Q
That's an amazing video. And what's really amazing is that every one of those interceptions was somebody else's fault!
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It is amazing to me how much time some Packer fans like to spend talking about a "pretty bad" QB from an opposing team.
Of course no one is "clamoring" for him now. Every team in the league expects Cutler to be cut, and available on the open market. Why waste a draft pick in a trade?
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It is amazing to me how much time some Packer fans like to spend talking about a "pretty bad" QB from an opposing team.
Of course no one is "clamoring" for him now. Every team in the league expects Cutler to be cut, and available on the open market. Why waste a draft pick in a trade?
Why wouldn't we? It's 2 guaranteed wins a year coming from our divisional opponent when he's behind center. That's great for the Packers.
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^ I almost cried when Detroit fired Matt Millen.
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Why wouldn't we? It's 2 guaranteed wins a year coming from our divisional opponent when he's behind center. That's great for the Packers.
It's not like any other Bears' QBs have fared all that well against the Packers in recent history.
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Adrian Peterson to where? Packers need a RB, and it would be sort of a reverse Favre on the Vikings, but I'm relatively certain he doesn't fit TT's scheme.
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Packers need to spend money on defensive side of the ball. I fully expect TT to open up the coffers for some cornerbacks. (Ha ha)
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Please God no AP to the Packers.
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Revis to Pack.
Haha, made a funny.
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I can see Detroit taking AP, if they can get him at a reasonable price. Some mocks have them taking the RB out of Stanford. Sign AP, use the pick on either a tight end or defensive playmaker.
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It's not like any other Bears' QBs have fared all that well against the Packers in recent history.
Kyle Orton was 3-1 against the Pack as a Bear and 5-2 counting stints with Denver, KC and Buffalo. And, believe it or not, Sexy Rexy won his first 3 starts against the Pack!
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I can see Detroit taking AP, if they can get him at a reasonable price. Some mocks have them taking the RB out of Stanford. Sign AP, use the pick on either a tight end or defensive playmaker.
Charles makes more sense to me for the Lions.
AP will either be a Giant or Seahawk.
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Adrian Peterson to where? Packers need a RB, and it would be sort of a reverse Favre on the Vikings, but I'm relatively certain he doesn't fit TT's scheme.
Adrian Peterson should take advantage of his time in free agency. Go home, reflect and spend time making a good switch.
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Apparently the Pats aren't going to trade Garoppolo (although, I personally believe that's a bluff and I'm not alone on that) which would mean that Mike Glennon, Colin Kaepernick and possibly Tyrod Taylor would be the best UFA QBs available and none of the QBs in the Draft appear to be franchise QBs.
The Bears are in desperate need of a QB but there's really no one out there who appears to be the answer. This begs the question: Why not wait? Re-sign Hoyer, draft a QB in Round 4 or 5 and sign a young-ish FA who needs a fresh start and would do so for relatively cheap. Guys like Geno Smith, EJ Manuel or Ryan Nassib are all out there. Yes, it's highly unlikely that any of those guys will be the long-term answer or even a quality NFL starter, but it's better than over-reaching on a draft pick or giving Mike Glennon $30 mill guaranteed. Next year's QB draft class should be very strong with Darnold, Falk, Rudolph, Browning, Rosen, etc. Play Hoyer or the young cast-off, fill other positions of need in the draft, go 5-11 and find your QB next offseason either in the draft or by signing FA-to-be Jimmy Garoppolo. Fox has a 4-year deal. Let him relax and coach next season without the unrealistic expectations of making the playoffs with no QB and no secondary.
Thoughts?
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Apparently the Pats aren't going to trade Garoppolo (although, I personally believe that's a bluff and I'm not alone on that) which would mean that Mike Glennon, Colin Kaepernick and possibly Tyrod Taylor would be the best UFA QBs available and none of the QBs in the Draft appear to be franchise QBs.
The Bears are in desperate need of a QB but there's really no one out there who appears to be the answer. This begs the question: Why not wait? Re-sign Hoyer, draft a QB in Round 4 or 5 and sign a young-ish FA who needs a fresh start and would do so for relatively cheap. Guys like Geno Smith, EJ Manuel or Ryan Nassib are all out there. Yes, it's highly unlikely that any of those guys will be the long-term answer or even a quality NFL starter, but it's better than over-reaching on a draft pick or giving Mike Glennon $30 mill guaranteed. Next year's QB draft class should be very strong with Darnold, Falk, Rudolph, Browning, Rosen, etc. Play Hoyer or the young cast-off, fill other positions of need in the draft, go 5-11 and find your QB next offseason either in the draft or by signing FA-to-be Jimmy Garoppolo. Fox has a 4-year deal. Let him relax and coach next season without the unrealistic expectations of making the playoffs with no QB and no secondary.
Thoughts?
Mccarron is the other trendy target.
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I think the QB market is going to be a bit repressed this year and that teams will be a bit gun-shy (Thanks, Brock!).
I hope I'm wrong and the Bears spend oodles of cash on Mike Glennon, who is a fine Brian-Hoyer esque talent.
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I think they are hanging onto Garoppolo because they know Brady is getting older and might need a competent back up. He's not worth in draft picks what he is to them as an insurance policy IMO.
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I think they are hanging onto Garoppolo because they know Brady is getting older and might need a competent back up. He's not worth in draft picks what he is to them as an insurance policy IMO.
Maybe. I think they are trying to drive up his price tag.
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Hoyer to sign with SF.
Bears appears to be bidding against themselves to land Mike Glennon. Sigh...
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Hoyer to sign with SF.
Bears appears to be bidding against themselves to land Mike Glennon. Sigh...
I'm actually ok'ish with Glennon as a stopgap. I'll be curious to see how much is guaranteed, however.
It all comes down to who they draft to develop. And I'm not one that thinks Trubisky or Watson are worth the 3rd pick.
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It'll be interesting to see who signs Romo. I'd rather pay Romo to develop a quarterback than Mike effing Glennon. Especially because NO ONE on that Bears staff is capable of developing a QB.
Bears gonna Bears.
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It'll be interesting to see who signs Romo. I'd rather pay Romo to develop a quarterback than Mike effing Glennon. Especially because NO ONE on that Bears staff is capable of developing a QB.
Bears gonna Bears.
I don't see why the Bears would be an option for Romo. At this point in his career, I think he is looking for a title shot. That ain't the Bears. The Broncos seem like the perfect spot.
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I wouldn't touch either of them. Romo will be like Andrew Bogut and be out for the year at first contact, and Glennon is going to get some absurd money for absolutely nothing.
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I don't see why the Bears would be an option for Romo. At this point in his career, I think he is looking for a title shot. That ain't the Bears. The Broncos seem like the perfect spot.
Exactly. No way would Romo sign with the Bears.
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I'm actually ok'ish with Glennon as a stopgap. I'll be curious to see how much is guaranteed, however.
It all comes down to who they draft to develop. And I'm not one that thinks Trubisky or Watson are worth the 3rd pick.
See, stop thinking so logically. The Bears dont think they need to rebuild. They will get Glennon and think thats the key cause they are "close" and Virginia McCaskey wants to "win more". Instead of drafting a QB in the 2nd or 3rd, they will draft another Nathan Enderle or David Fales in the 6/7th and we will sit in purgatory.
I don't dislike Ryan Pace's work just yet, but I think the mission and mindset of the franchise is still totally broken.
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For the Bears, there isn't really such thing as a bad deal for Glennon for 2 or maaaaybe 3 years worth of guaranteed money. They aren't going to really compete within that timeframe anyway, so won't be looking to spend the money on other FAs. Glennon gives you a "baseline" qb type to competently keep the seat warm you develop other parts of the roster and look for the long term replacement. Worst case scenario is basically Osweiler, which given the other options, wouldn't be as bad a result for the Bears as Romo or another oft injured veteran playing in 4 games over a 3 year deal. Kaep's inability to throw and propensity to leave the pocket makes it harder to develop WRs, OL in standard protections, etc. Taylor would have been ideal, but with him off the board, giving Glennon too much for a couple years doesn't really cost you anything but money, which you didn't have anywhere better to spend anyway.
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What does it say about the Bears, that as a Bears fan I would have loved to see Tyrod Taylor playing for Chicago next year.
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See, stop thinking so logically. The Bears dont think they need to rebuild. They will get Glennon and think thats the key cause they are "close" and Virginia McCaskey wants to "win more". Instead of drafting a QB in the 2nd or 3rd, they will draft another Nathan Enderle or David Fales in the 6/7th and we will sit in purgatory.
I don't dislike Ryan Pace's work just yet, but I think the mission and mindset of the franchise is still totally broken.
I'd be surprised if they wait until the 4th or later to draft a QB this year.
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What does it say about the Bears, that as a Bears fan I would have loved to see Tyrod Taylor playing for Chicago next year.
He definitely would have been the best option. Solid baseline numbers, a little room to grow, some mobility, doesn't throw the ball away. Gives an otherwise good team a chance to make the playoffs and a rebuilding team the opportunity to approach competitive while developing the rest of the roster. Bills were smart (and lucky, given how they operated over the last four months) to make it work.
Looks like Glennon to Chicago on $45M over 3 with $18M guaranteed. Doesn't strike me as out of line, particularly if the $18M is frontloaded enough to enable Chi to get out of the deal after two with only a marginal cap hit in the third year.
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Looks like Glennon to Chicago on $45M over 3 with $18M guaranteed. Doesn't strike me as out of line, particularly if the $18M is frontloaded enough to enable Chi to get out of the deal after two with only a marginal cap hit in the third year.
I was skeptical of Glennon but that deal seems reasonable. If he doesn't look like he's the long-term answer, the Bears will likely be bad again and can draft a QB next season from what is believed to be a deep QB class, develop that QB behind Glennon for a year and then hand his the keys after that if he's ready. If Glennon does look like the long-term solution, even better. If he's somewhere in between, draft a QB in 2017 anyway.
Bears also sign safety Quintin Demps. 31yo, ball-hawking journeyman. Not an Pro Bowler but a definite upgrade.
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Biggest positive I see to the Glennon signing is there is now likely no chance they draft Trubisky. Which was a very real worry for me, regardless of what rumors were saying.
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Jay Cutler has been officially released.
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RT Rick Wagner, Badger, then Raven, picked up by the Lions for 9 mil per year. Grew up in West Allis. Nice pay day. I guess Stafford will appreciate having a good pass blocker, but that's a lot of coin for a RT. Setting the bar pretty high for Lang.
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RT Rick Wagner, Badger, then Raven, picked up by the Lions for 9 mil per year. Grew up in West Allis. Nice pay day. I guess Stafford will appreciate having a good pass blocker, but that's a lot of coin for a RT. Setting the bar pretty high for Lang.
Keeping Stafford on his feet is the secret to success for the Lions. They were outscored last year. No running game. Tons of cap space. More $ than ideal, but no complaints.
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Jay Cutler has been officially released.
Sad day for Packer fans.
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I'm mad the Bears didn't take that Osweiler offer from the Texans, that was a steal by the Browns.
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I'm mad the Bears didn't take that Osweiler offer from the Texans, that was a steal by the Browns.
Cleveland has over $100M in cap space. Totally worth taking a flyer on Osweiler to get more picks. Word is that they'll try to move him but I'm not sure there are any takers.
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Alshon to Philly on a 1yr/$14M deal. He would have made more had the Bears franchised him.
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I'm mad the Bears didn't take that Osweiler offer from the Texans, that was a steal by the Browns.
A great move by Cleveland. The amount of high picks they have in the '17 and '18 drafts is insane. You should know that creative thinking doesn't exist in the Bears front office.
Brutal day so far for the Bears. Missed on Gilmore and Bouye. I think Pace was banking on getting Gilmore.
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What does it say about the Bears, that as a Bears fan I would have loved to see Tyrod Taylor playing for Chicago next year.
See. Gb and Bears fans CAN agree. I, too, would have loved to see Tyrod Taylor playing for the Bears next year. I loved it as long as Cutler was QB and I think I will have the same "fondness" for Glennon.
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Cleveland has over $100M in cap space. Totally worth taking a flyer on Osweiler to get more picks. Word is that they'll try to move him but I'm not sure there are any takers.
They have to spend the money. They got a 2nd rounder for a 4th and 6th just for taking Osweiler. Brock can run a last place offense as well as anyone.
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Cleveland has over $100M in cap space. Totally worth taking a flyer on Osweiler to get more picks. Word is that they'll try to move him but I'm not sure there are any takers.
Trading cap space (by taking on bad contracts) in exchange for draft assets. Que NBA.
As an aside, this is the #2 reason the NFL's comp system sucks - after the fact that the most violent sport we have throws injured players on the nonguaranteed contract, uncompensated trash heap when its done with them. That minor detail aside, the NBA's and MLB's "deal with the bad contracts you make" lend themselves to much more fun wheeling and dealing and armchair GM-ing.
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A great move by Cleveland. The amount of high picks they have in the '17 and '18 drafts is insane. You should know that creative thinking doesn't exist in the Bears front office.
Brutal day so far for the Bears. Missed on Gilmore and Bouye. I think Pace was banking on getting Gilmore.
Also missed out on Wagner and let Alshon walk for basically what they could have paid him by using the franchise tag. Team's new #1 WR has played 4 games in 2 seasons and their other top WR was a QB 2 years ago. Yeesh...
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Also missed out on Wagner and let Alshon walk for basically what they could have paid him by using the franchise tag. Team's new #1 WR has played 4 games in 2 seasons and their other top WR was a QB 2 years ago. Yeesh...
Yeah, yeah. :D
But now they have a great QB, so everything is better.
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They have to spend the money. They got a 2nd rounder for a 4th and 6th just for taking Osweiler. Brock can run a last place offense as well as anyone.
NFL network claiming the Browns are gonna cut him. Also saying no one really wants Romo.....
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Also missed out on Wagner and let Alshon walk for basically what they could have paid him by using the franchise tag. Team's new #1 WR has played 4 games in 2 seasons and their other top WR was a QB 2 years ago. Yeesh...
Kevin White is garbage. Said it two years ago when he got drafted and will keep saying it until otherwise disproven.
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Trading cap space (by taking on bad contracts) in exchange for draft assets. Que NBA.
As an aside, this is the #2 reason the NFL's comp system sucks - after the fact that the most violent sport we have throws injured players on the nonguaranteed contract, uncompensated trash heap when its done with them. That minor detail aside, the NBA's and MLB's "deal with the bad contracts you make" lend themselves to much more fun wheeling and dealing and armchair GM-ing.
You do realize that if the contracts were guaranteed, that the value of the contracts would decrease considerably. That's why there is always a total contract value, but the "guaranteed money" is the most important.
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Also missed out on Wagner and let Alshon walk for basically what they could have paid him by using the franchise tag. Team's new #1 WR has played 4 games in 2 seasons and their other top WR was a QB 2 years ago. Yeesh...
Not sure why everyone is big on Alshon. He's hurt half the time and disinterested most of the other half. Sure he'll have a decent game or two, but IMO not worth an investment.
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You do realize that if the contracts were guaranteed, that the value of the contracts would decrease considerably. That's why there is always a total contract value, but the "guaranteed money" is the most important.
Sure, but its not like the players would receive less money in the aggregate. That gets decided by salary floors, etc. So I think the ability to overreport the nonguaranteed money creates the false impression that everyone is making more money than they actually are. That both disproportionately hurts the guys at the bottom of the roster where none of the $$ is guaranteed and puts too much of the onus for football's violence on the labor vs the capital, imho.
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Ted getting frisky by signing Marcellus Bennett.
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Ted getting frisky by signing Marcellus Bennett.
Interesting switch at TE. Want to know the relative contracts. Bennett is big time.
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Ted getting frisky by signing Marcellus Bennett.
*Martellus
Looks like the signed Bennett mini helmet I have will be going into storage.
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I don't know if going from Cook to Bennett is an upgrade.
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I don't know if going from Cook to Bennett is an upgrade.
You also thought Cook was going to be a negative for the Packers and he was probably the most important offensive weapon outside of Rodgers last year.
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You also thought Cook was going to be a negative for the Packers and he was probably the most important offensive weapon outside of Rodgers last year.
In the regular season last year, Cook was an adequate TE, missed six games due to injury. If you said in the playoffs, then yes, but he was basically an average NFL starter for the 2016 campaign, and his stats certainly show that.
I'm very interested and curious how he'll socially fit into Green Bay. He's an interesting dude to say the least. We'll see what kind of coin he got, but my gut instinct when I saw Bennett to GB was bad fit.
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In the regular season last year, Cook was an adequate TE, missed six games due to injury. If you said in the playoffs, then yes, but he was basically an average NFL starter for the 2016 campaign, and his stats certainly show that.
I'm very interested and curious how he'll socially fit into Green Bay. He's an interesting dude to say the least. We'll see what kind of coin he got, but my gut instinct when I saw Bennett to GB was bad fit.
In my opinion it was far more than the stats. Including the Playoffs, the Packers were 10-3 when Cook played and 2-4 when he did not play. He was the one Packer who could run down the seam and open up the middle of the field.
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In my opinion it was far more than the stats. Including the Playoffs, the Packers were 10-3 when Cook played and 2-4 when he did not play. He was the one Packer who could run down the seam and open up the middle of the field.
Which Bennett can do as well.
But unless he plays cornerback, I am not sure it matters.
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Which Bennett can do as well.
But unless he plays cornerback, I am not sure it matters.
Agreed and agreed. Need to address CBs big time and pass rush a bit.
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Which Bennett can do as well.
But unless he plays cornerback, I am not sure it matters.
Interesting how Belichick has no problem going out and signing a top CB. They need a WR and bill pulls the trigger on that one too.
What Ted did last year was criminal. GB had the worst set of cBs in the entire NFL - not even one guy who was close to average. And Ted sat on his hands and threw away another season. Even an average defense would have gotten them to more SBs.
If TT thinks they can win with what they have, he is clueless. And drafting a corner isn't gonna fix the problem. They needed to sign a veteran.
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https://mobile.twitter.com/AaronRodgers12/status/840345535064104960
https://mobile.twitter.com/MartysaurusRex/status/840365826339418112
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Interesting how Belichick has no problem going out and signing a top CB. They need a WR and bill pulls the trigger on that one too.
What Ted did last year was criminal. GB had the worst set of cBs in the entire NFL - not even one guy who was close to average. And Ted sat on his hands and threw away another season. Even an average defense would have gotten them to more SBs.
If TT thinks they can win with what they have, he is clueless. And drafting a corner isn't gonna fix the problem. They needed to sign a veteran.
Going into last season the DBs looked like they were going to be the strength of the defense by a wide margin. Losing your top 3 corners for significant time will take a solid group and make them bad. Not much you can do in the middle of the season to fix it. There was nothing criminal about it unless someone told him what the future was.
About 30 teams would take Ted in a heartbeat over what they have.
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I'm surprised the Pack didn't go after Logan Ryan or Prince Amukamara, especially Prince. The deal he signed with the Bears was a great below market deal, with zero risk.
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No one cares about Black Unicorn. Fix the effing secondary Ted.
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I'm surprised the Pack didn't go after Logan Ryan or Prince Amukamara, especially Prince. The deal he signed with the Bears was a great below market deal, with zero risk.
Yes
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Interesting switch at TE. Want to know the relative contracts. Bennett is big time.
True, Bennett is big time but even with all his ability there's a reason he's joining his fifth team.
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Going into last season the DBs looked like they were going to be the strength of the defense by a wide margin. Losing your top 3 corners for significant time will take a solid group and make them bad. Not much you can do in the middle of the season to fix it. There was nothing criminal about it unless someone told him what the future was.
About 30 teams would take Ted in a heartbeat over what they have.
They had Shields. No one else had proven themselves. Shields was lost at the beginning of the season. Ted did nothing.
Any average GM can make the playoffs with Aaron at QB. A good GM looks at his weaknesses and goes and gets Gilmore and Cooks.
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I do anticipate that TT will pursue some DBs in the second FA wave. He's actually done a good job with less than splashy signings like Guion and Cook. There's some talk that he's talking to House about a return.
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They had Shields. No one else had proven themselves. Shields was lost at the beginning of the season. Ted did nothing.
Any average GM can make the playoffs with Aaron at QB. A good GM looks at his weaknesses and goes and gets Gilmore and Cooks.
No. At the start of last season the consensus was the secondary was the strength of the team. Randall was a first round pick and had a good rookie season, no reason to think he wouldn't continue to progress. Rollins was improving throughout his rookie season. Injuries played a part in their decline. Thats not on Ted. We will see how they do in 2017. TT is not an average gm. Top 3 in the league. Take a look around at all the TT disciples running successful teams , that doesn't happen if you are average
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You also thought Cook was going to be a negative for the Packers and he was probably the most important offensive weapon outside of Rodgers last year.
Dish an awesome poster on nfl, but I would take what he says about the packers with a grain of salt. He had the packers in the grave and throwing dirt on them at mid season. Said Rodgers was washed up and should move on. (paraphrasing). Probably more wishful thinking than perceptive analysis.
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No. At the start of last season the consensus was the secondary was the strength of the team. Randall was a first round pick and had a good rookie season, no reason to think he wouldn't continue to progress. Rollins was improving throughout his rookie season. Injuries played a part in their decline. Thats not on Ted. We will see how they do in 2017. TT is not an average gm. Top 3 in the league. Take a look around at all the TT disciples running successful teams , that doesn't happen if you are average
Totally accurate. DB was supposed to be a genuine strength of the team in August. Everyone was worried about the front 7 following BJ's surprise retirement and the question mark at inside backer. I have no doubt that reinforcements will be on the way.
The only surprise so far was Hyde. But man Buffalo gave him a big contract. (5, $30, $14 gty.) I think they end up regretting that.
TT simply refuses to panic. Ever. That's one important reason why the Packers are 'right there' every year.
And back to the Cook negotiation for a second. His agent erroneously believed that TT had no other option and priced his client out of the market. Wrong. Privately I'll bet Jared is really pissed.
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Dish an awesome poster on nfl, but I would take what he says about the packers with a grain of salt. He had the packers in the grave and throwing dirt on them at mid season. Said Rodgers was washed up and should move on. (paraphrasing). Probably more wishful thinking than perceptive analysis.
I agree with all of this. My blue and orange glasses need new lenses however.
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Dish
Ha. As soon as I replace my green and gold lenses. Your packer posts are still better than 95% of the posts on here
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I do anticipate that TT will pursue some DBs in the second FA wave. He's actually done a good job with less than splashy signings like Guion and Cook. There's some talk that he's talking to House about a return.
A guy who couldn't make it on a Jacksonville defense that gave up more points than GB
No thanks - we already have 3 or 4 guys who are the same as House.
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No. At the start of last season the consensus was the secondary was the strength of the team. Randall was a first round pick and had a good rookie season, no reason to think he wouldn't continue to progress. Rollins was improving throughout his rookie season. Injuries played a part in their decline. Thats not on Ted. We will see how they do in 2017. TT is not an average gm. Top 3 in the league. Take a look around at all the TT disciples running successful teams , that doesn't happen if you are average
It is not a strength of the team when 2 of the top 3 CBs are 2nd year guys who have not proven themselves.
As far as TT disciples? I would rank them all ahead of TT. Mackenzie, Schneider, and Dorsey all took terrible team and turned them into winners. TT took a winner with two of the greatest QBs who ever played and parlayed it into one SB appearance in 12 years. That is inexcusable and it is on Ted.
Ted may have the reputation, but I will go by his track record.
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It is not a strength of the team when 2 of the top 3 CBs are 2nd year guys who have not proven themselves.
As far as TT disciples? I would rank them all ahead of TT. Mackenzie, Schneider, and Dorsey all took terrible team and turned them into winners. TT took a winner with two of the greatest QBs who ever played and parlayed it into one SB appearance in 12 years. That is inexcusable and it is on Ted.
Ted may have the reputation, but I will go by his track record.
They have made the conference championship three other times, one of which went to overtime, one they sh*t the bed and the other they were blown out.
The last one may be on Ted because they didn't have adequate depth at corner, but it's hard to blame him for all times they have fell short. Ron Wolf is in the HOF and only won one Super Bowl.
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It is not a strength of the team when 2 of the top 3 CBs are 2nd year guys who have not proven themselves.
As far as TT disciples? I would rank them all ahead of TT. Mackenzie, Schneider, and Dorsey all took terrible team and turned them into winners. TT took a winner with two of the greatest QBs who ever played and parlayed it into one SB appearance in 12 years. That is inexcusable and it is on Ted.
Ted may have the reputation, but I will go by his track record.
Your hindsight is 20/20. Going into the season those corners were proven and had high expectations. It's not TT's fault Randall had groin surgery.
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Your hindsight is 20/20. Going into the season those corners were proven and had high expectations. It's not TT's fault Randall had groin surgery.
My eyesight is on;y 20/30, but my hindsight is excellent.
We can only hope that Randall was playing hurt when he returned, cuz it doesn't get any worse that what he did.
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The last one may be on Ted because they didn't have adequate depth at corner, but it's hard to blame him for all times they have fell short. Ron Wolf is in the HOF and only won one Super Bowl.
But like TT's proteges, Wolf took an awful team with no QB and turned it into one of the best franchises in the league. TT inherited a winning franchise. Wolff, McKenzie, Dorsey, and Scneider did not.
TT is not willing to make a trade to help his team; the other four have done what is necessary.
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They have made the conference championship three other times, one of which went to overtime, one they sh*t the bed and the other they were blown out.
The last one may be on Ted because they didn't have adequate depth at corner, but it's hard to blame him for all times they have fell short. Ron Wolf is in the HOF and only won one Super Bowl.
In any single year, Ted's conservative approach may be the reason we miss the Super Bowl. But it's that approach that has put us in contention every single year where we have never had to purge cap to keep the people that matter most.
He has made mistakes. We may have made the big game with Heyward on an economy contract this year. But you can't project injuries and the Packers have been on the short end of the stick.
We should continue this approach for a couple more years, but eventually, I think we need to transition to the Elway method with Manning. At that point, we know that Rodgers' cap hit won't be hanging around much longer.
When we reach that part of Rodgers career, Ted will be retired and replaced by someone like Eliot Wolf who likely thinks much more like Elway, Schneider or his own father.
Winning a Super Bowl is partially luck in any given year, but the success TT has enjoyed this past decade is second to only the best GM/Coach in NFL history.
In unrelated news, a potentially great "flyer" pickup in Lance Kendrick. Had a pretty decent year with a bunch of amateurs throwing to him. We'll see where the numbers come in. No impact to compensatory picks because he was released.
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But like TT's proteges, Wolf took an awful team with no QB and turned it into one of the best franchises in the league. TT inherited a winning franchise. Wolff, McKenzie, Dorsey, and Scneider did not.
TT is not willing to make a trade to help his team; the other four have done what is necessary.
I think TT should be more aggressive in free agency too. But he is damn good. And I don't think his success should be penalized because he inherited a quality team. The team that won Super Bowl 45 wasn't the team he inherited.
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I think TT should be more aggressive in free agency too. But he is damn good. And I don't think his success should be penalized because he inherited a quality team. The team that won Super Bowl 45 wasn't the team he inherited.
In fact, the team he inherited wasn't Ron Wolf's or winning. It was Sherman's, and it was plagued with aging veterans, bad FA deals and Sherman's bad habit of consistently trading up in the draft that is always going to be a bit of a crapshoot.
In other words, TT turned this roster over to start a new generation of Packer football
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In any single year, Ted's conservative approach may be the reason we miss the Super Bowl. But it's that approach that has put us in contention every single year where we have never had to purge cap to keep the people that matter most.
Very well put. I agree completely.
The goal shouldn't be to keep getting close over and over again. A great GM will make moves that are the difference between being in contention and getting to the SB.
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The goal shouldn't be to keep getting close over and over again. A great GM will make moves that are the difference between being in contention and getting to the SB.
I just don't think that's fair or an accurate description of what is within a GM's power. All any GM can do is put a team together that is capable of winning a championship. Actually doing it is a combo of coaching and luck. The 2014 packers should have been a super bowl team, the Falcons should have won it all, etc. Consistent competitiveness is a far, far better indicator of a GM's success than the outcome of the last game.
The Billy Beane "I don't watch the games" line from Moneyball is hokey and cliche, but accurately captures the realistic purview of a GM.
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Quick random football thoughts as I sit at a Sonic waiting for food on a Saturday night...
-Dion Sims $10 mil guaranteed makes little sense to me for where the Bears are at
-Indifferent on Glennon, I'd have brought back Hoyer, but I get why they felt they had to do what they did (not that I agree with it)
-Pats gave up way too much for a one year rental on Cooks. I don't get why they didn't just go after Pryor, who signed a below market deal
-Draft should be second week of April
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Matt Kalil to play LT, Munnerlin to play nickel back, Peppers to be situational rusher and a couple of smaller moves, too.
Digging my Panthers' offseason so far!
Last year was a fluke after Panthers had won previous 3 division titles, and we all know the Falcons aren't as good as they looked down the stretch last season.
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I think many of us have been frustrated by TT's unwillingness to use free agency. But I wonder if his actions so far this year suggest an evolution of his historic strategy. Having Bennett on the other phone line at the exact same moment as Cook's agent was trying to get HOF money was brilliant. And I have no problem with his avoiding the 'splash' FAs in the first week. Let's see how he addresses some holes like CB in the next 3-4 weeks.
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I think many of us have been frustrated by TT's unwillingness to use free agency. But I wonder if his actions so far this year suggest an evolution of his historic strategy. Having Bennett on the other phone line at the exact same moment as Cook's agent was trying to get HOF money was brilliant. And I have no problem with his avoiding the 'splash' FAs in the first week. Let's see how he addresses some holes like CB in the next 3-4 weeks.
Despite what my comments sound like, I actually agree with most of what you say. If you look at most FAs that sign for big money, the vast majority never live up to their contract. But, historically, Ted is unwilling to sign almost anyone or make a trade despite how desperate the team has become -(DBs last year).
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Lions pick up Lang. Spending a lot to protect Stafford.
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Lions pick up Lang. Spending a lot to protect Stafford.
My sense is that TT had a hard limit, especially given Lang's wear and tear. But Pack better have a plan at RG.
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My sense is that TT had a hard limit, especially given Lang's wear and tear. But Pack better have a plan at RG.
They rarely pay for guards or middle linebackers. No clue on what they will do at guard. Probably move Bulaga to guard and sprigs to tackle or they have someone they have in mind like murphy.
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They rarely pay for guards or middle linebackers. No clue on what they will do at guard. Probably move Bulaga to guard and sprigs to tackle or they have someone they have in mind like murphy.
Yup.
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Lions offered $19M guaranteed over three years. Packers countered with the same number of years but only $6.5M guaranteed.
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Lions offered $19M guaranteed over three years. Packers countered with the same number of years but only $6.5M guaranteed.
$19 is too much for Lang. He's not 27.
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Lions pick up Lang. Spending a lot to protect Stafford.
A lot of money on their line.
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A lot of money on their line.
Bears give Wheaton $6M for next year.
Overpay much?
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Bears give Wheaton $6M for next year.
Overpay much?
WRs was a strange market this year, and I don't like that move in light of what Pryor made. But it also wasn't egregious, and the risk is pretty contained.
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WRs was a strange market this year, and I don't like that move in light of what Pryor made. But it also wasn't egregious, and the risk is pretty contained.
Which to me made the Cooks trade seem so steep. Wideouts were remarkably cheap on the open market for the best talent available (Woods and Britt contracts aside...which made no sense.
Bears have had to overpay for everyone outside of Prince. There's really little appeal to playing for the Bears right now, team's going nowhere.
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Which to me made the Cooks trade seem so steep. Wideouts were remarkably cheap on the open market for the best talent available (Woods and Britt contracts aside...which made no sense.
Bears have had to overpay for everyone outside of Prince. There's really little appeal to playing for the Bears right now, team's going nowhere.
Which makes you wonder why they should even be an aggressive participant in the FA market at all. Gotta draft and build your way out of this.
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Protecting Stafford is job one. Establishing the run is job two. Detroit is spending to do those two things. I expect they will focus on defense in the draft.
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Which makes you wonder why they should even be an aggressive participant in the FA market at all. Gotta draft and build your way out of this.
I think that's paces strategy, ultimately. Seems to be making "second tier" FA signings on short term deals. My guess is these are all stop gaps while waiting for draft picks to develop
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I think that's paces strategy, ultimately. Seems to be making "second tier" FA signings on short term deals. My guess is these are all stop gaps while waiting for draft picks to develop
I still have some faith in Pace, and think he has a plan. Hope he's given the time and the leash by the rest of the FO disaster to execute it.
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I still have some faith in Pace, and think he has a plan. Hope he's given the time and the leash by the rest of the FO disaster to execute it.
Pace's biggest mistake so far is Fox. He doesn't fit and he hurts the narrative. This is a massive and complete rebuild, but all the talk last off-season was about how much Fox teams improve his 2nd year. Rebuild on the fly and such. It definitely feels that the timeline for success for Fox and Pace are completely different. To the point, if Fox goes 4-12 or 5-11 this year, I think he's gone, but I would be very surprised if the Bears moved on from Pace.
Having a coaching-staff that is potentially disconnected with management's vision is a recipe for disaster. That's my biggest fear going into the season. Fox & staff need to win, but the organization needs to develop its young players.
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But Fox wasn't Pace's choice right?
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But Fox wasn't Pace's choice right?
Correct. I don't know who Pace preferred but the McCaskey's hired Fox.
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But Fox wasn't Pace's choice right?
Correct, but he went along with it.
I realize he was in a difficult position. Having the consultant who had hired him, pushing Fox with ownership's ear. But, Pace was in a powerful position as well.
When the Bears hired him, they announced to the league, the media and fans that Pace had full and total control of the football operation. He made the decisions. However, only a week later facing one of his biggest decisions, an outsider is influencing the process. A more skilled (and likely experienced) GM would have voiced his displeasure. Done correctly, Pace could have leaked his concern with Ernie Accorsi pushing Fox, and I think he could have gotten the McCaskey's to back off.
After the Dave McGinnis fiasco, the family is very sensitive to criticism about them meddling in the football operation. Undercutting their newly appointed GM only days into his tenure, would have been a story and embarrassment I believe they would have avoided.
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I also think one of the reasons Fox was hired is because of the complete ineptitude of Trestman. I think they felt they needed an experienced coach that could command the respect of the locker room.
I don't recall who Pace's other top candidates were at the time however.
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I also think one of the reasons Fox was hired is because of the complete ineptitude of Trestman. I think they felt they needed an experienced coach that could command the respect of the locker room.
I don't recall who Pace's other top candidates were at the time however.
To be honest, I got the impression that it was a done deal when Pace was hired, and the only reason it wasn't announced immediately was due to the Rooney Rule.
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Lacy to the Seahawks on a 1-year, $5.5 MM deal. I look forward to seeing what he does behind what has probably become the worst line in football (Vikings have spent big to improve).
RB market is just not there. I wouldn't mind signing someone like Charles since he doesn't impact our compensatory picks.
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Lacy to the Seahawks on a 1-year, $5.5 MM deal. I look forward to seeing what he does behind what has probably become the worst line in football (Vikings have spent big to improve).
RB market is just not there. I wouldn't mind signing someone like Charles since he doesn't impact our compensatory picks.
He will be among the top 10 highest paid backs in the league next year.
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The Packers picked up Davon House off the reject pile. Excuse me while I go purchase my Super Bowl tickets...
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He will be among the top 10 highest paid backs in the league next year.
Teams are finally getting smart. No reason to paid a veteran RB, when you can draft a cheaper replacement that can get similar production. Better off investing in your OL.
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Lacy also weighed in at 267 for one of the teams he visited, which is 33 pounds above his listed weight last year.
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Lacy also weighed in at 267 for one of the teams he visited, which is 33 pounds above his listed weight last year.
5.5MM is a good deal for a starting guard.
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Adios motherfooker and da horse ya road in on, hey?
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If McCarthy wouldn't have completely effed up the Seahawks game we would have another SB. Maybe Mac should worry about coaching the pieces he has in place instead of worrying about the pieces Ted isn't going to overpay to get.
Mac doesn't coach the defense.
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Mac doesn't coach the defense or special teams
FIFY.
Also, Vikings complete their annual signing of Packers rejects by grabbing Datone Jones.
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Another 1st rd. bust, hey?
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Two biggest mistakes of the Seahawks game:
1. The onside kick.
2. Peppers telling Morgan Burnett to sit down after his interception.
Mac nothing to do with either.
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Pace's biggest mistake so far is Fox.
(cough cough) Kevin White (cough cough)
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Mac doesn't coach the defense.
You think the defense is why we lost that game? The offense stalled twice at the one yard line and Mac settled for field goals. He then took the air out of the football with 20 minutes left in the football game in a 2 possession football game. The Packers gave up 22 regulation points, and that was with them getting an onside kick (so really, should've been 14 because they should've never been back on the field to end that game).
We lost the game because we kicked 5 field goals and got the football in the end zone once, including one 18 yard field goal and another 19 yard field goal. Rodgers was 19/34 for 178(!) yards, 1 touchdown, and 2 interceptions.
The defense gave up 397 yards, but 80 of them came in overtime and another 50 came when, once again, they should've never been back on the field when they gave up an onside kick recovery. They also had FIVE takeaways.
Our offensive output in the second half was:
- 3 plays, 9 yards, punt
- 4 plays, 7 yards, punt
- 10 plays, 37 yards, field goal
- 3 plays, 6 yards, punt
- 3 plays, -4 yards, punt
- 7 plays, 48 yards, field goal
Our offense mustered 103 yards and 6 points in the second half, half of which came with 14 seconds left in the game.
To blame that loss on the defense is beyond laughable.
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Two biggest mistakes of the Seahawks game:
1. The onside kick.
2. Peppers telling Morgan Burnett to sit down after his interception.
Mac nothing to do with either.
Mistakes? I guess. But the biggest difference in the game was the fact that our first three offensive series went interception inside the Seahawks 30, field goal from the 2, field goal from the 1.
Edit: And on each of those 2 field goals the Packers began with the football inside the Seahawks' 30 yard line after a defensive takeaway.
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You think the defense is why we lost that game? The offense stalled twice at the one yard line and Mac settled for field goals. He then took the air out of the football with 20 minutes left in the football game in a 2 possession football game. The Packers gave up 22 regulation points, and that was with them getting an onside kick (so really, should've been 14 because they should've never been back on the field to end that game).
We lost the game because we kicked 5 field goals and got the football in the end zone once, including one 18 yard field goal and another 19 yard field goal. Rodgers was 19/34 for 178(!) yards, 1 touchdown, and 2 interceptions.
The defense gave up 397 yards, but 80 of them came in overtime and another 50 came when, once again, they should've never been back on the field when they gave up an onside kick recovery. They also had FIVE takeaways.
Our offensive output in the second half was:
- 3 plays, 9 yards, punt
- 4 plays, 7 yards, punt
- 10 plays, 37 yards, field goal
- 3 plays, 6 yards, punt
- 3 plays, -4 yards, punt
- 7 plays, 48 yards, field goal
Our offense mustered 103 yards and 6 points in the second half, half of which came with 14 seconds left in the game.
To blame that loss on the defense is beyond laughable.
There are about 10-15 different plays that - had they broken our way - would have won us the game. McCarthy went into prevent a bit, bit this was a team loss. You can go back to Rodgers interception in the end zone in Q1 where Bennett wasn't called for offside. It was a complete team collapse. Or if you'd prefer to fit your narrative, Russell, God works in mysterious ways.
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There are about 10-15 different plays that - had they broken our way - would have won us the game. McCarthy went into prevent a bit, bit this was a team loss. You can go back to Rodgers interception in the end zone in Q1 where Bennett wasn't called for offside. It was a complete team collapse. Or if you'd prefer to fit your narrative, Russell, God works in mysterious ways.
All true. I just don't really think you can put that loss on the defense. When the offense does nothing to help you out and you have played a great game, it's hard for me to blame that on the defensive side of the ball.
But all in all, yes, one of the biggest collapses all around I've witnessed. And if you ask me, that 100% goes to the man that oversees the total product, and that is Mac. He took the mentality of not losing the game and just getting that clock to 0:00 rather than going out and winning a football game, and his team followed him.
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(cough cough) Kevin White (cough cough)
You're right, he could be. No idea if he can actually play.
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You're right, he could be. No idea if he can actually play.
My concern is that he's David Terrell. A big, strong, fast WR who never really ran routes in college and has no idea how to do so at the NFL level.
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Goodell trying to speed up the game:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2017/03/22/roger-goodell-plans-to-speed-up-pace-nfl-games-2017/99491048/
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Goodell trying to speed up the game:
http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2017/03/22/roger-goodell-plans-to-speed-up-pace-nfl-games-2017/99491048/
He missed a golden opportunity when he decided to "make the extra point more exciting" (Full disclosure, I rather enjoy it being moved back). Next up, kickoffs.
Personally, I think we should offer bonus points if you just score and hand the ball to the ref.
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Raiders going to Vegas.
http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/19014192/oakland-raiders-expected-enough-votes-nfl-owners-move-las-vegas
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Holy crap. The Bears just cut Royal. Brutal franchise.
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Holy crap. The Bears just cut Royal. Brutal franchise.
Played like 5 games last year, would have had to pay him 5 mil and there was no penalty for cutting him. Its not like they were winning anyway, may as well go full on tank mode now.
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Played like 5 games last year, would have had to pay him 5 mil and there was no penalty for cutting him. Its not like they were winning anyway, may as well go full on tank mode now.
I'm sorry skywalker, your football team sucks. Go Pack Go.
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Glow that's a pretty routine cut right there in the NFL.
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Glow that's a pretty routine cut right there in the NFL.
My point is that's a wasted top 10 pick. Just playin' with Chi.
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My point is that's a wasted top 10 pick. Just playin' with Chi.
Bears picked him up as a street UFA, they didn't draft Royal. Not saying the Bears don't suck, but I don't think too many batted an eye on this one.
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Who am I thinking of?
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Who am I thinking of?
Probably Kevin White but he was not cut. Royal is old and always injured. White is young and always injured.
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My point is that's a wasted top 10 pick. Just playin' with Chi.
Yikes. Definitely not who you are thinking of.
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Probably Kevin White but he was not cut. Royal is old and always injured. White is young and always injured.
YES! Kevin White. He sucks too but is still being paid. My bad.
(Breaks into chorus, "The Bears still suck. They really, really suck.") :P
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In fairness, Glow isn't wrong when he says that White was a waste of a top 10 draft pick.
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In fairness, Glow isn't wrong when he says that White was a waste of a top 10 draft pick.
Picked immediately after White?
All-Pro OLB Vic Beasley.
Sigh...It's not always hard to figure out why bad teams remain bad.
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Picked immediately after White?
All-Pro OLB Vic Beasley.
Sigh...It's not always hard to figure out why bad teams remain bad.
Let's be honest - the White pick was not received poorly. It wasn't a reach - it just hasn't worked thus far.
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Let's be honest - the White pick was not received poorly. It wasn't a reach - it just hasn't worked thus far.
Really? I seem to remember people thinking it was a god awful pick. I said it was a waste of a draft pick since day one.
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You know what's a bad pickup? Buying a Maserati when you haven't played well enough to prove you deserve a second contract.
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You know what's a bad pickup? Buying a Maserati when you haven't played well enough to prove you deserve a second contract.
Maybe it's a lease
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Really? I seem to remember people thinking it was a god awful pick. I said it was a waste of a draft pick since day one.
Not to my recollection. I recall there were some questions about his route running and experience but he was very highly regarded and some had him ranked in the top 5. Maybe you hated the pick from the beginning but it was not considered a reach or a bad pick whatsoever from what I remember. Revisionist history from most who pan the pick now.
Rated as the #1 WR, ahead of Cooper: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000483055/article/2015-nfl-draft-prospect-rankings-by-position
Ranked 3rd overall by Mayock: http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000488358/article/2015-nfl-draft-mike-mayocks-top-100-prospects
4th overall by SI: https://www.si.com/nfl/2015/03/30/2015-nfl-draft-big-board-top-64-prospects
Ranked 7th overall by ESPN (insider): http://insider.espn.com/nfl/draft/rankings/_/year/2015
Ranked 4th by McShay: http://www.espn.com/nfl/draft2015/insider/story/_/id/12773347/todd-mcshay-tier-rankings-2015-class-2015-nfl-draft
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And to be fair, White's issues have been injuries. Not poor performance. I mean, he's played four games in two seasons?
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RE: Kevin White
This doesn't sound positive
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And to be fair, White's issues have been injuries. Not poor performance. I mean, he's played four games in two seasons?
True, but when he has been in the field, he's been mediocre at best.
His catch rate last year was 85th best in the league, while his drops per game - extrapolated over a full season - would have put him in the top 10.
Obviously plenty of time for him to get better, but there's enough on tape to worry.
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And to be fair, White's issues have been injuries. Not poor performance. I mean, he's played four games in two seasons?
It was either Thompson or Wolff who said that the most important ability for any player is availability.
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True, but when he has been in the field, he's been mediocre at best.
His catch rate last year was 85th best in the league, while his drops per game - extrapolated over a full season - would have put him in the top 10.
Obviously plenty of time for him to get better, but there's enough on tape to worry.
Musta been Cutler's fault.
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True, but when he has been in the field, he's been mediocre at best.
His catch rate last year was 85th best in the league, while his drops per game - extrapolated over a full season - would have put him in the top 10.
Obviously plenty of time for him to get better, but there's enough on tape to worry.
He has good hands and is all kinds of athletic but he can't read defenses or run routes. At West Virginia, he'd basically run go routes or bubble screens. He's David Terrell 2.0.
Go to the 1:30 mark and watch for #13 on the INT. The DB ran the correct route, White was standing 5-10 yards away from the pass, looking lost. Obviously, it's just one example but you get the point.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000700037/Bears-vs-Texans-highlights (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000700037/Bears-vs-Texans-highlights)
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He has good hands and is all kinds of athletic but he can't read defenses or run routes. At West Virginia, he'd basically run go routes or bubble screens. He's David Terrell 2.0.
Go to the 1:30 mark and watch for #13 on the INT. The DB ran the correct route, White was standing 5-10 yards away from the pass, looking lost. Obviously, it's just one example but you get the point.
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000700037/Bears-vs-Texans-highlights (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/0ap3000000700037/Bears-vs-Texans-highlights)
At this point there is no excuse for him not to know the playbook inside and out with all the time he's been sidelined. I'm hoping he spent a lot of time with mental reps as he was recovering.
I'm not ready to put him in the Terrell category of busts yet, but maybe that's just wishful thinking on my part. The opportunity is right in front of him this season.
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RE: Kevin White
This doesn't sound positive
So... that didn't work originally. My bad. Check here: (again, doesn't sound good)
https://twitter.com/kfishbain/status/863169370020827136
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First woman to call NFL game in September.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/16/528640609/female-broadcaster-set-to-make-nfl-history
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First woman to call NFL game in September.
http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2017/05/16/528640609/female-broadcaster-set-to-make-nfl-history
Not one of my favorites but has been doing college football for ESPN for years. Perfectly qualified.
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So... that didn't work originally. My bad. Check here: (again, doesn't sound good)
https://twitter.com/kfishbain/status/863169370020827136
Not much of a surprise given his college game and lack of NFL reps, but I agree it's not ideal for a wide receiver to be unable to run routes. Or catch the ball, really.
Maybe he can pin his combine stats to his jersey and that will make the DB's back off 10 or 15 yards.
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Not much of a surprise given his college game and lack of NFL reps, but I agree it's not ideal for a wide receiver to be unable to run routes. Or catch the ball, really.
Maybe he can pin his combine stats to his jersey and that will make the DB's back off 10 or 15 yards.
Or maybe they should just turn him into a DB. If he's ever healthy, that is.
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Friend sent this to me today:
(https://pics.me.me/i-caught-tony-caught-peyton-romors-final-pass-imanningsfinal-pass-20251883.png)
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Friend sent this to me today:
(https://pics.me.me/i-caught-tony-caught-peyton-romors-final-pass-imanningsfinal-pass-20251883.png)
Fun fact: Favre's final throw in 3 straight seasons, with 3 different teams, was an INT. He only couldn't go 4 for 4 because he was concussed by the frozen field of TCF Bank Stadium
Edit: meant to say "final throw"
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Fun fact: Favre's throw in 3 straight seasons, with 3 different teams, was an INT. He only couldn't go 4 for 4 because he was concussed by the frozen field of TCF Bank Stadium
Remember very clearly where I was for that game. Was at a Bears watch party with my dad in downtown Chicago hosted by Steve Dahl.
That was probably the last good day the Bears had.
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-mitch-trubisky-bears-chicago-hope-spt-0521-20170519-story.html
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-mitch-trubisky-bears-chicago-hope-spt-0521-20170519-story.html
"As Pace does with all such get-to-know-you dinners, he asked Trubisky to pick the restaurant and make the reservation. It's a minor request. But it often can be revealing of a player's reliability."
Before Pace and his cohorts arrived on campus, the Bears GM had a text. Dinner at 7 p.m.
The venue: Bin 54, a top steakhouse in North Carolina's Triangle region. And to keep the gathering covert, Trubisky made the reservation for six under an alias: James McMahon.
"I thought that was cool," Pace says.
All of Trubisky's visitors from Chicago appreciated that touch. They took it as evidence of all they had been told about the 22-year-old quarterback never taking himself too seriously yet always focusing on the details."
Seriously???
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http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/football/bears/ct-mitch-trubisky-bears-chicago-hope-spt-0521-20170519-story.html
Put his bust in Canton
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"Fun fact: Favre's final throw in 3 straight seasons, with 3 different teams, was an INT. He only couldn't go 4 for 4 because he was concussed by the frozen field of TCF Bank Stadium"
another fun fact-bret's first career pass with falcons went for a TD...by the other team ::)
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"Fun fact: Favre's final throw in 3 straight seasons, with 3 different teams, was an INT. He only couldn't go 4 for 4 because he was concussed by the frozen field of TCF Bank Stadium"
another fun fact-bret's first career pass with falcons went for a TD...by the other team ::)
Favre's first career completion was to a hall of famer. I'll let you guys guess before posting the answer.
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Favre's first career completion was to a hall of famer. I'll let you guys guess before posting the answer.
Wasn't it himself?
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Who played for da Milwaukee Braves, Milwaukee Bucks, and da Green Bay Packers, hey?
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Who played for da Milwaukee Braves, Milwaukee Bucks, and da Green Bay Packers, hey?
Is it the master of his organ Frank Charles?
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Wasn't it himself?
Winner winner chicken dinner
Pass batted at the line that went right back to him. I learned this a few years ago during a Packers game, when Fox (IIRC) used that as an in game trivia question.
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Is it the master of his organ Frank Charles?
Dude could get his organ hummin', hey?
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Bears signed Victor Cruz. Not like it's actually going to matter though.
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"Kurt" Cousins to da Bears in 2018
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Fun stats ..
The Average NFL Fan Will Watch 23.5 Hours Of Commercials And Only 4.1 Hours Of Game Action This Season
https://www.streamingobserver.com/the-average-nfl-fan-will-watch-23-5-hours-of-commercials-this-season/
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Fun stats ..
The Average NFL Fan Will Watch 23.5 Hours Of Commercials And Only 4.1 Hours Of Game Action This Season
https://www.streamingobserver.com/the-average-nfl-fan-will-watch-23-5-hours-of-commercials-this-season/
An NFL game takes 3hrs 15 minutes to play. In those 3hrs 15 minutes there are approximately 11 minutes of actual "action".
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the dolphins have themselves a little conundrum with a capital "C". tannehill may be out...for A WHILE. their starter as of today is no bernie kosar(matt moore).
you KNOW if they don't pick up mr kaepernick, the not so silent minority is gonna burn down old joe robbie. the other conundrum is that miami is filled with A LOT of people still holding a little grudge against el jefe who will burn down joe robbie if #7 suits up in dolphin uniform
so what's the big deal?
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the dolphins have themselves a little conundrum with a capital "C". tannehill may be out...for A WHILE. their starter as of today is no bernie kosar(matt moore).
you KNOW if they don't pick up mr kaepernick, the not so silent minority is gonna burn down old joe robbie. the other conundrum is that miami is filled with A LOT of people still holding a little grudge against el jefe who will burn down joe robbie if #7 suits up in dolphin uniform
so what's the big deal?
Cutler has a history with Gase, and a positive one.
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Cutler has a history with Gase, and a positive one.
No question is a dumb one right? Who/what is gase?
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Yeah and Cutler is the far better quarterback, which is embarrassing to say. People say it's the politics. The fact of the matter is it's the lack of quarterbacking ability. I'd take a chance on Cutler and Romo before I'd give Kaepernik a shot, and that's simply on football ability. But people are only upset about Kaepernik.
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No question is a dumb one right? Who/what is gase?
Adam Gase is the Dolphins' head coach. He was the Bears' offensive coordinator in 2015, which also was arguably Cutler's best season (best rating; second-lowest INT%; 2nd highest yds/att; etc).
Although I often criticize Cutler (and for good reason IMHO), I agree with wades and would rather have him at QB than Kaepernick, who has been mediocre in the three seasons since SF's Super Bowl appearance. Kind of like choosing herpes over gonorrhea, though!
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A chancre is still a chancre, ai na?
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I am going to be so sad if the Dolphins deprive me of Cutler calling Bears games. I honestly think he'll be better than Romo because he won't be like Gruden and incapable of criticising players and coaches.
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I am going to be so sad if the Dolphins deprive me of Cutler calling Bears games. I honestly think he'll be better than Romo because he won't be like Gruden and incapable of criticising players and coaches.
Actually, Cutler is supposed to be pretty good as an analyst.
Was listening to his partner in a sports talk show while driving home from Florida and the general thought was NOBODY was better prepared for the simulated test game in which he was auditioned than Cutler. Apparently, Cutler had reached out to his partner, done the homework and was ready to go.
That's why he was hired so fast. He should do well.
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Fun stats ..
The Average NFL Fan Will Watch 23.5 Hours Of Commercials And Only 4.1 Hours Of Game Action This Season
https://www.streamingobserver.com/the-average-nfl-fan-will-watch-23-5-hours-of-commercials-this-season/
That's when the DVR is your friend. I watch most Packers games in about an hour.
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Resident Dolphins fan here. First off, the Tannehill injury really sucks from an organizational standpoint. His deal was structured to facilitate letting him go after this year with no dead money if he didn't take another step forward. He showed a lot of really great signs last year and was making some really tough throws, and then the injury. I imagine that they'll have to angle for a cut and re-sign now, and its going to be really interesting to see how much money other teams are willing to offer to take the chance that the injury doesn't make him a different player.
That being said, I think they have to bring in Cutler or Kaep or look to make a trade. I actually really like Matt Moore (Jay Fielder was one of my favorite Dolphins of all time, which seems relevant to my feelings on Moore for some reason) but Moore isn't going to make a deep run, and this roster is built to contend now. Depending on how Gase wants to structure the offense, Cutler has shown he can make a lot of the tough throws that Tannehill started making last year, or Kaep's legs enable a west coast, quick drop style with a running component. Either way, I'd rather roll the dice with one of those guys and maybe only win 5 games in a great QB draft class year than win 7 or 8 games with Moore.
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Resident Dolphins fan here. First off, the Tannehill injury really sucks from an organizational standpoint. His deal was structured to facilitate letting him go after this year with no dead money if he didn't take another step forward. He showed a lot of really great signs last year and was making some really tough throws, and then the injury. I imagine that they'll have to angle for a cut and re-sign now, and its going to be really interesting to see how much money other teams are willing to offer to take the chance that the injury doesn't make him a different player.
That being said, I think they have to bring in Cutler or Kaep or look to make a trade. I actually really like Matt Moore (Jay Fielder was one of my favorite Dolphins of all time, which seems relevant to my feelings on Moore for some reason) but Moore isn't going to make a deep run, and this roster is built to contend now. Depending on how Gase wants to structure the offense, Cutler has shown he can make a lot of the tough throws that Tannehill started making last year, or Kaep's legs enable a west coast, quick drop style with a running component. Either way, I'd rather roll the dice with one of those guys and maybe only win 5 games in a great QB draft class year than win 7 or 8 games with Moore.
MU, as you mention "resident fan", i'm assuming you live in/around miami. that being said, how would miami/florida fans accept kaep? i'm asking because you may have a better pulse and i do not mean to turn this into anything other than what i asked. just an honest opinion from one who lives in and around the fans as opposed to some sports guy with an agenda
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MU, as you mention "resident fan", i'm assuming you live in/around miami. that being said, how would miami/florida fans accept kaep? i'm asking because you may have a better pulse and i do not mean to turn this into anything other than what i asked. just an honest opinion from one who lives in and around the fans as opposed to some sports guy with an agenda
oh no worries - I actually meant resident on scoop, haha - I live in WI. But i can see how what i wrote was totally misleading. That being said, I've been a big fan for a long time, so I like to think I have a decent read on the team.
My take (fwiw) is that Kaep's comments on Castro - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/11/24/colin-kaepernick-grilled-by-miami-dolphins-reporter-over-fidel-castro-shirt/?utm_term=.9ab46e345af4 (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2016/11/24/colin-kaepernick-grilled-by-miami-dolphins-reporter-over-fidel-castro-shirt/?utm_term=.9ab46e345af4), which I don't think he realized would get so much attention and weren't particularly well thought through, would be more problematic for the fanbase than his kneeling during the national anthem, etc. http://deadspin.com/dan-le-batard-colin-kaepernick-like-much-of-america-1789444878 (http://deadspin.com/dan-le-batard-colin-kaepernick-like-much-of-america-1789444878)
Actually, I think Miami would have been one of the best places for him if it were just the anthem, police takes, etc. - the combination of the immigrant/racial minority populations there, and the "showtime" Miami beach vibe would have been more accepting/less preoccupied with the activism than most other NFL fanbases. I think Los Angeles would be similar in that respect. The Cuba stuff, though, might be a really big deal in southern Florida, and could lead to its own local protests and blowback, even though it wouldn't cause a second thought in, say, Baltimore or Seattle.
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Cutler to the Dolphins. Still am going to miss him in Chicago.
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Cutler to the Dolphins. Still am going to miss him in Chicago.
God, I hope he has an all-pro season, just would make everything right in the NFL.
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Yeah and Cutler is the far better quarterback, which is embarrassing to say. People say it's the politics. The fact of the matter is it's the lack of quarterbacking ability. I'd take a chance on Cutler and Romo before I'd give Kaepernik a shot, and that's simply on football ability. But people are only upset about Kaepernik.
I didn't think he was politics when he was shopping himself around as a starter, but now that he is simply trying to latch on with a team, it's clearly politics. I can pretty much say with near certainty that without the anthem thing, he would for sure by on an NFL roster now.
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Well, the Dolphins just got a lot more interesting.
I like this paragraph in the NFL.com article about the signing:
While Tannehill has yet to make a decision regarding surgery on his injured knee, the desperate attempt for Cutler's services could provide some context. The Dolphins are a team that made the playoffs with a combination of Tannehill and Matt Moore under center a year ago and believe the roster is good enough to win now.
Yeah, because why not expect a guy who won 1 playoff game in 11 years to be the missing link to a championship?
In fairness, some guys just need a change of scenery. Maybe Cutler will excel in Miami. Of course, the change-of-scenery thing also is what they said about Cutler going from Denver, where he put on a choke-a-thon, to Chicago.
As an aside, I was a huge Dolphins fan as a kid. During my formative years, they were the best team in football, and I wanted to root for a winner. So I loved me my Csonka and Griese and Warfield and Buoniconti and Fernandez and Scott and Garo and Mercury, etc. I stuck with 'em for many years and very much enjoyed watching Marino play. But after they forced out Shula, I lost interest. It won't bother me at all if Cutler fails there. And it won't excite me if he succeeds. Ever since I moved to NC, I've become a major Panthers fan - and that was saying something, because my first year here Jimmy Clausen "led" my boys to a 2-14 record!
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I didn't think he was politics when he was shopping himself around as a starter, but now that he is simply trying to latch on with a team, it's clearly politics. I can pretty much say with near certainty that without the anthem thing, he would for sure by on an NFL roster now.
With Miami it may be more than just the anthem. He wore a Castro shirt and that may not easily be forgotten by Miami.
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With Miami it may be more than just the anthem. He wore a Castro shirt and that may not easily be forgotten by Miami.
It's still a political statement. I just think its odd that most NFL owners and fans don't think twice about signing guys with a violent past (as long as its not on camera), but act all indignant because someone knelt for the national anthem or was somehow engaged in politics that offended people.
For instance, I think Lance Berkman is an intolerant bigot. But if he was a free agent still playing ball, I wouldn't get all hung up if he was signed by the Brewers if they thought it would help. As long as he was good in the clubhouse, why would I care?
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Blind QB test (no peeking!).
Which of these guys aren't good enough for the NFL?
Last 10 NFL starts:
QB #1
272 for 408, 66.7 pct., 2,728 yards, 6.7 Y/A, 15 TDs, 11 INTs, 86.5 rating.
QB #2
217 for 339, 64 pct., 2,660 yards, 7.8 Y/A, 16 TDs, 10 INTs, 91.5 rating
QB #3
181 for 286, 63.2 pct., 2,208 yards, 7.7 Y/A, 11 TDs, 10 INTs, 85.2 rating
QB #4
183 for 302, 60.6 pct., 2,054 yards, 6.8 Y/A, 15 TDs, 4 INTs, 91.9 rating
QB #5
226 for 365, 61.9 pct., 2,239 yards, 6.1 Y/A, 18 TDs, 10 INTs, 84.2 rating
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I didn't think he was politics when he was shopping himself around as a starter, but now that he is simply trying to latch on with a team, it's clearly politics. I can pretty much say with near certainty that without the anthem thing, he would for sure by on an NFL roster now.
Der is freedom of speech, butt ders also consequences four ones actions, hey?
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Of course. I simply find it disheartening that those consequences aren't extended to people who beat up other people...unless it is recorded.
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Der is freedom of speech, butt ders also consequences four ones actions, hey?
If only there were consequences for running a tired old schtick into the ground for years after it lost whatever novel charm it may have once had.
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If only there were consequences for running a tired old schtick into the ground for years after it lost whatever novel charm it may have once had.
It had charm, once????
I don't think it is a coincidence that this is the same guy who always is first to make sex jokes that only a 12-15 year old boy would love.
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Of course. I simply find it disheartening that those consequences aren't extended to people who beat up other people...unless it is recorded.
Agreed. People who beat up others, people who abuse animals (Vick) and such get second chances. People who express unpopular political views, not so much.
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here's the thing-with kaep, you get a qb who had been functioning as essentially a starter with "back-up" stats. ok, with that, you get a media schmit storm, win or lose. all the other players have to put up with it. constant questions about playing with a guy who, well you know the story. say hello to the training camp media orgy. post game-running back could have an mvp game and the first question he gets will be about kaep. coach makes a questionable play call that costs the team the game- first question will be? yup. media trucks with their satellite dishes up from all over the world parked in the stadium parking lot like a jellystone campground. they will be like the neighbor who won't go away.
then, you get the cuban-americans who left whatever they had, families, risked their lives, risked their families lives...to start over and the dude is honoring the dictator that killed their fathers, mothers...
then, if you get rid of him for not playing well, the "r" word will be thrown around like a jesse jackson rally
is this really worth all the distractions?
risks/rewards? if i'm an owner(like paul allen) i say i'm good, but thanks for playing-next
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here's the thing-with kaep, you get a qb who had been functioning as essentially a starter with "back-up" stats. ok, with that, you get a media schmit storm, win or lose. all the other players have to put up with it. constant questions about playing with a guy who, well you know the story. say hello to the training camp media orgy. post game-running back could have an mvp game and the first question he gets will be about kaep. coach makes a questionable play call that costs the team the game- first question will be? yup. media trucks with their satellite dishes up from all over the world parked in the stadium parking lot like a jellystone campground. they will be like the neighbor who won't go away.
then, you get the cuban-americans who left whatever they had, families, risked their lives, risked their families lives...to start over and the dude is honoring the dictator that killed their fathers, mothers...
then, if you get rid of him for not playing well, the "r" word will be thrown around like a jesse jackson rally
is this really worth all the distractions?
risks/rewards? if i'm an owner(like paul allen) i say i'm good, but thanks for playing-next
His teammates said he wasn't a problem and wasn't a "distraction."
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If Aaron Rodgers knelt down during the National Anthem, wore a Fidel Castro shirt, grew out an afro, and converted to Islam he wouldn't be without a job. Heck, if Kaepernik was the Kaepernik of 4 years ago he wouldn't be looking for a job. It isn't the politics. It's the ability to perform on the football field. If a player can help a team win football games he'll find a spot on a roster. If he can't he won't. Kaepernik can't so he won't.
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If Aaron Rodgers knelt down during the National Anthem, wore a Fidel Castro shirt, grew out an afro, and converted to Islam he wouldn't be without a job. Heck, if Kaepernik was the Kaepernik of 4 years ago he wouldn't be looking for a job. It isn't the politics. It's the ability to perform on the football field. If a player can help a team win football games he'll find a spot on a roster. If he can't he won't. Kaepernik can't so he won't.
Mark Sanchez is currently the backup QB for the Bears. I would rather have Kaep as a backup 7 days a week, twice on Sunday.
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His teammates said he wasn't a problem and wasn't a "distraction."
i didn't really stress kaep being "the problem". what he did, many have a problem with. however, the media...? kaep can do whatever he wants, but he's got to live with other's opinions of those actions as well
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Cutler to the Dolphins. Still am going to miss him in Chicago.
gotta be a way to start a home and home with the dolphins yet, ey?
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Mark Sanchez is currently the backup QB for the Bears. I would rather have Kaep as a backup 7 days a week, twice on Sunday.
Sanchez is a 3rd string quarterback on the Bears behind Tribusky and Glennon. And in order to have Kapernik the Bears would then have to run one offense for Tribusky/Glennon and then have a second offense in place in the event that Kapernik has to enter the game. If I were a Bears fan, I'd take my chances with a Sanchez 3rd stringer over a Kaepernik 3rd stringer. Chances are whoever is your 3rd stringer isn't going to get in the game, and if they do you're going to be in deep trouble either way, so I'll take my chances that the bad quarterback who can at least play the same style/offense as my starter and backup can rather than a 3rd stringer who needs an entirely different offense.
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https://twitter.com/NOTSportsCenter/status/894328686765277185/photo/1
Good plan.
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If Aaron Rodgers knelt down during the National Anthem, wore a Fidel Castro shirt, grew out an afro, and converted to Islam he wouldn't be without a job. Heck, if Kaepernik was the Kaepernik of 4 years ago he wouldn't be looking for a job. It isn't the politics. It's the ability to perform on the football field. If a player can help a team win football games he'll find a spot on a roster. If he can't he won't. Kaepernik can't so he won't.
Don't be so naive. You see some of the crap out there that passes for quarterbacks? Kaepernick has a history of being a winning quarterback. If that were anyone else, he would be on an NFL roster right now.
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Don't be so naive. You see some of the crap out there that passes for quarterbacks? Kaepernick has a history of being a winning quarterback. If that were anyone else, he would be on an NFL roster right now.
For who? Kapernik has been bad for 2 years. Jay Cutler is a far better quarterback and just now got signed and only because of an injury to a starting quarterback. Tony Romo is a far better quarterback and is unemployed (or at least not working for an NFL team).
Who could use Kaepernik? You're limited to teams that run a spread option offense. Unless you want to implement two separate offenses for your team so that if your starter goes down Kaepernik can come in and run the only offense he can possibly work in.
He's (generously) not a very good football player and he's a system quarterback for a system that isn't used by many teams at all in the NFL.
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For who? Kapernik has been bad for 2 years. Jay Cutler is a far better quarterback and just now got signed and only because of an injury to a starting quarterback. Tony Romo is a far better quarterback and is unemployed (or at least not working for an NFL team).
Who could use Kaepernik? You're limited to teams that run a spread option offense. Unless you want to implement two separate offenses for your team so that if your starter goes down Kaepernik can come in and run the only offense he can possibly work in.
He's (generously) not a very good football player and he's a system quarterback for a system that isn't used by many teams at all in the NFL.
Why does he have to be in a spread option? He hasn't played exclusively in that offense.
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Clarence Hill, longtime Cowboy beat reporter for the Fort Worth Star-Telegram, said in an interview with SI: "There is no question he (Kaepernick) is being blackballed. The league has been guilty of collusion before. Why not now? There is no football reason why Kaepernick is not on a team right now. Why would other players speak on issues when they see how Kaepernick has been blackballed?"
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Why does he have to be in a spread option? He hasn't played exclusively in that offense.
Because the only time he's ever been successful is when he's been in a spread option offense. He can hardly throw a football with defenses committing one defender to spying on him to prevent him from running on them. He's nowhere near good enough to be a starter and he won't work as a backup unless a team is implementing 2 offenses, which they of course wouldn't do. People can say the NFL is colluding against him if they want but then they're colluding against Tony Romo for...being from Burlington, WI or something. I don't buy it for a second. If he could help a team win games he'd be on a roster.
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Because the only time he's ever been successful is when he's been in a spread option offense. He can hardly throw a football with defenses committing one defender to spying on him to prevent him from running on them. He's nowhere near good enough to be a starter and he won't work as a backup unless a team is implementing 2 offenses, which they of course wouldn't do. People can say the NFL is colluding against him if they want but then they're colluding against Tony Romo for...being from Burlington, WI or something. I don't buy it for a second. If he could help a team win games he'd be on a roster.
?? Tony Romo could be on a roster right now if he wanted to be. For example from April...
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/tony-romo-retire-free-agent-rumors-quarterback-houston-texans-roster
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?? Tony Romo could be on a roster right now if he wanted to be. For example from April...
http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/04/tony-romo-retire-free-agent-rumors-quarterback-houston-texans-roster
Fair enough. I guess the NFL doesn't care about the hundreds of others who followed suit and kneeled for the National Anthem, just Kaepernik.
The guy isn't good at football. If he were he'd be paid to play it. If Rodgers or Russell Wilson or Cam Newton or any other good quarterback had been the one kneeling for the National Anthem and Kaepernik had respectfully stood with his hand over his heart I'm highly skeptical that Kaepernik would have a job and one of those 3 would be looking for one. But maybe.
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Well, the Dolphins just got a lot more interesting.
I like this paragraph in the NFL.com article about the signing:
While Tannehill has yet to make a decision regarding surgery on his injured knee, the desperate attempt for Cutler's services could provide some context. The Dolphins are a team that made the playoffs with a combination of Tannehill and Matt Moore under center a year ago and believe the roster is good enough to win now.
Yeah, because why not expect a guy who won 1 playoff game in 11 years to be the missing link to a championship?
In fairness, some guys just need a change of scenery. Maybe Cutler will excel in Miami. Of course, the change-of-scenery thing also is what they said about Cutler going from Denver, where he put on a choke-a-thon, to Chicago.
As an aside, I was a huge Dolphins fan as a kid. During my formative years, they were the best team in football, and I wanted to root for a winner. So I loved me my Csonka and Griese and Warfield and Buoniconti and Fernandez and Scott and Garo and Mercury, etc. I stuck with 'em for many years and very much enjoyed watching Marino play. But after they forced out Shula, I lost interest. It won't bother me at all if Cutler fails there. And it won't excite me if he succeeds. Ever since I moved to NC, I've become a major Panthers fan - and that was saying something, because my first year here Jimmy Clausen "led" my boys to a 2-14 record!
I've probably seen Cutler play just about as much as anyone outside the Bears organization. I've been a Bears season ticket holder for 22 years and go to almost every game.
Cutler will do well in Miami as long as he stays within himself. The biggest problem Cutler had in Chicago was weak offensive lines and a tendency to try to do things beyond his skill set. Cutler would see windows open ever so briefly and, like Brett Favre, try to jam a football through them. Sometimes it worked but lots of times it did not. From up top, you can see the lanes open and the peeks the QB has (I'm at the 45 yard line in Section 438) and you almost grimaced at times when you saw Cutler wind up.
The one thing that may make this work was that Adam Gase knew Cutler. The best Cutler looked (which admittedly was with a bad team) was when Gase was the offensive coordinator.
Those of you who think Kapernick was blackballed, please keep in mind that Cutler and Gas know each other. Cutler probably is the most equipped veteran quarterback to step into the void at Miami and make it work. If anyone can, Cutler can. And, I would note, those of you who think the season was lost and Miami should have passed don't know the NFL and don't know the NFL fan. They'd probably burn whatever they call Joe Robbie Stadium to the ground if the Dolphins didn't try to do something.
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Fair enough. I guess the NFL doesn't care about the hundreds of others who followed suit and kneeled for the National Anthem, just Kaepernik.
The guy isn't good at football. If he were he'd be paid to play it. If Rodgers or Russell Wilson or Cam Newton or any other good quarterback had been the one kneeling for the National Anthem and Kaepernik had respectfully stood with his hand over his heart I'm highly skeptical that Kaepernik would have a job and one of those 3 would be looking for one. But maybe.
Go read my earlier post giving stats from five unnamed QBs over their last 10 starts. One is Kaepernik. The others are four unquestioned starters of playoff caliber teams. Without looking it up, tell us who is who.
Regardless, your repeated statement that Kap has been bad the past two seasons is objectively, provably false.
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One is a Boy Scout and the other is the Devil, but there are similarities between Tebow and Kaepernick as far as not being able to get a job in the NFL.
Tebow certainly is not good enough to start in the league, but he probably could be a 2nd-stringer and definitely could be a third-stringer. But it would be rough on the coach, GM and owner for whatever team he'd be on. The starting QB has one bad game, and everybody wants to know when Tebow's gonna play - even though the coach knows Tebow isn't a very good QB - and his teammates know it, too. It's just not worth the trouble, and I honestly think that's why Tebow isn't at least a clipboard-holder in the NFL right now instead of a Class A baseball player.
Kaepernick is significantly more talented than Tebow. He's led a team to the Super Bowl, and his stats even during recent years haven't been all that bad. Has he been "blackballed"? Maybe. As others have said, the NFL has colluded before. But he doesn't have to have been blackballed to not be in the league for the same reason Tebow isn't in the league. Undoubtedly, owners, who have all kinds of public-relations situations (and maybe some coaches), just don't feel he is worth the trouble. Who wants constant scrutiny because of the behavior of a guy who isn't even a starter?
Of course Rodgers and Brady could have knelt during the anthem and they'd still have jobs. So would another top dozen QBs. But how about the 16 worst NFL starters? How about any of the backups? Would Matt Moore have been the Dolphins' backup and would Derek Anderson still be backing up Cam if they had done what Kaepernick did? We'll never know, but I'm not so sure. And I don't know how others can claim to be so sure, either.
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Its a mix of politics and skill. Kaep isn't good enough to be immune to the (fair or not) consequences of his political action. He's good enough to be a second stringer for sure and arguably good enough to be one of the worst starters in the NFL. If he was better, he would be playing despite the politics. But if he didn't have the politics he would be playing (or at least signed) without having to be better. Joe Montana said that very thing a month or two ago and talked about how coaches don't like "distractions" in the locker room (Unless of course that distraction is a player who beats up their wife, strikes their child, commits multiple sexual assaults, or participates in dog fights).
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Fair enough. I guess the NFL doesn't care about the hundreds of others who followed suit and kneeled for the National Anthem, just Kaepernik.
The guy isn't good at football. If he were he'd be paid to play it. If Rodgers or Russell Wilson or Cam Newton or any other good quarterback had been the one kneeling for the National Anthem and Kaepernik had respectfully stood with his hand over his heart I'm highly skeptical that Kaepernik would have a job and one of those 3 would be looking for one. But maybe.
I never claimed it was absolute. Of course Rodgers would have a job if he kneeled for the anthem. But Kaepernick would have one if he hadn't.
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Jay is fired up.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/eEmJWVLULtE7v9u4U4aGn5zrv6pu0kLR19KCLNg0eKKG-6OzZBFwIfa9NcX7YOEAWSYKoPk=s114)
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Jay is fired up.
(https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/eEmJWVLULtE7v9u4U4aGn5zrv6pu0kLR19KCLNg0eKKG-6OzZBFwIfa9NcX7YOEAWSYKoPk=s114)
"The good thing is I play QB, so I don't have to be in that great of cardiovascular shape".
People immediately got up in arms calling him a heartless bum. Unfortunately Cutler's dry sense of humor will never play with stuffy sports media. Heaven forbid he say something other than a cliche about grabbing his lunch pail and coming into work trying to be better every day.
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"The good thing is I play QB, so I don't have to be in that great of cardiovascular shape".
People immediately got up in arms calling him a heartless bum. Unfortunately Cutler's dry sense of humor will never play with stuffy sports media. Heaven forbid he say something other than a cliche about grabbing his lunch pail and coming into work trying to be better every day.
Win games, for once in his career, and people won't give a dang what he says or whether he kneels for the National Anthem.
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One is a Boy Scout and the other is the Devil, but there are similarities between Tebow and Kaepernick as far as not being able to get a job in the NFL.
So you think Kaepernick is a Boy Scout, huh?
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Win games, for once in his career, and people won't give a dang what he says or whether he kneels for the National Anthem.
This.
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This.
Like when the Bears were 11-5 in his second season as a starter and they won the division and they still leapt all over him immediately? Or when they were 7-3 the next year before he got hurt and the team imploded without him? Its revisionist history. I'm not trying to argue Cutler's numbers or value as a QB. Thats been beaten to death enough for 3-4 lifetimes. I'm calling out the inanity of sports media. You shouldn't have to have a SB ring or be an All-Pro to have freedom from being a joyless, wooden robot.
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Its a mix of politics and skill. Kaep isn't good enough to be immune to the (fair or not) consequences of his political action. He's good enough to be a second stringer for sure and arguably good enough to be one of the worst starters in the NFL. If he was better, he would be playing despite the politics. But if he didn't have the politics he would be playing (or at least signed) without having to be better. Joe Montana said that very thing a month or two ago and talked about how coaches don't like "distractions" in the locker room (Unless of course that distraction is a player who beats up their wife, strikes their child, commits multiple sexual assaults, or participates in dog fights).
Agree. Stars can be big time distractions. Sometimes their reputations are even enhanced by it (remember Broadway Joe?). From superstar to journeyman it's a sliding scale, and you're right that the biggest fans of the violence that is the NFL are much more comfortable with violent players off the field than they are with players who take unpopular (and to some, ungrateful) political positions.
Of course this is true in "real life" too. Geniuses in academia, big producers in business, "stars" in Hollywood get away with stuff that would ruin or at the very least hinder the careers of marginal talents. Life in the big city.
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Miami HC Adam Gase is the total explanation here. In his system, Cutler threw for 3600 yards, 21 TDs, and 11 picks in 2015. Gase knows how to get the most out of him and doesn't have to change anything.
That's not the case for Kaepernick. It would change everything and there's no built in familiarity. It's not racism, it's comfort.
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For Kaep, I don't think the argument is against Cutler. I totally agree with Miami because of the Gase factor.
However, in a league where Brock Osweiler and Trevor Siemien are starting QBs there is 100% a spot available for Colin Kaepernick. And I'm a big Trevor Siemien fan.
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Like when the Bears were 11-5 in his second season as a starter and they won the division and they still leapt all over him immediately? Or when they were 7-3 the next year before he got hurt and the team imploded without him? Its revisionist history. I'm not trying to argue Cutler's numbers or value as a QB. Thats been beaten to death enough for 3-4 lifetimes. I'm calling out the inanity of sports media. You shouldn't have to have a SB ring or be an All-Pro to have freedom from being a joyless, wooden robot.
The guy is going into his 12th season. In his first 11 seasons he has a total of 3 seasons where he had a winning record as a starter. He's won a total of 1 Playoff game as a starter. It's not revisionist history at all. The guy is a loser.
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"The good thing is I play QB, so I don't have to be in that great of cardiovascular shape".
People immediately got up in arms calling him a heartless bum. Unfortunately Cutler's dry sense of humor will never play with stuffy sports media. Heaven forbid he say something other than a cliche about grabbing his lunch pail and coming into work trying to be better every day.
I wish Cutler would take up Manning speak for his last tour, with just heavy sarcasm. It would be perfect.
The mouth breathing NFL media wouldn't know how to react.
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I really enjoy Jay Cutler's irreverence towards the media. If only he vaccinated his children.
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For Kaep, I don't think the argument is against Cutler. I totally agree with amiami because of the Gase factor.
However, in a league where Brock Osweiler and Trevor Siemien are starting QBs there is 100% a spot available for Colin Kaepernick. And I'm a big Trevor Siemien fan.
Correct.
Now explain the situation in Baltimore where the coach and GM said yes.
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Correct.
Now explain the situation in Baltimore where the coach and GM said yes.
Ding ding ding. Harbaugh all but said, "I want him on my team." The owner cares about image. And I guess he has that right.
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So you think Kaepernick is a Boy Scout, huh?
i heard a great analogy today from someone-what if kaep wore socks that said depicted women as pigs or a shirt that dissed transgenders or wore an anti-immigrant hat...i'll just sit back and watch the heads explode as teams are fighting to sign him
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For Kaep, I don't think the argument is against Cutler. I totally agree with amiami because of the Gase factor.
However, in a league where Brock Osweiler and Trevor Siemien are starting QBs there is 100% a spot available for Colin Kaepernick. And I'm a big Trevor Siemien fan.
Agreed completely, though I've seen plenty of "Jay sucks, proof that Kaep is getting screwed" posts on Twitter and FB today. Kaep is getting screwed. The Rams giving Dan Orlovsky a look is proof of that. But Cutler isn't emblematic of that.
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Ding ding ding. Harbaugh all but said, "I want him on my team." The owner cares about image. And I guess he has that right.
Which is ironic given the owners extreme reluctance to cut Ray Rice
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Which is ironic given the owners extreme reluctance to cut Ray Rice
would you want to be the one to hand him the pink slip? :-\
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Yeah but at least he didn't kneel for the anthem...
http://deadspin.com/bo-pelini-defends-decision-to-let-steubenville-rapist-m-1797617229
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i heard a great analogy today from someone-what if kaep wore socks that said depicted women as pigs or a shirt that dissed transgenders or wore an anti-immigrant hat...i'll just sit back and watch the heads explode as teams are fighting to sign him
Not the same thing. Women and transgendered individuals are minorities, police are not. Also, someone's gender is typically more central to their identity than their occupation.
Still, it was extremely rude, disrespectful, and I have no problem with people thinking that Kaep is an arse because of it.
In respect of those that believe that "football should be an escape for this type of stuff" this will be my only comment on this topic.
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As a fan, I like the Cutler move. I also like Matt Moore, but the team doesn't gain anything with a full season of Matt Moore. We know what he is, and that with this team (largely the same as the one he helmed at the end of last season) he'll win 6-8 games, resulting in a middling draft pick and a season that you might as well hit fast forward on. The only way I think riding with Moore would be the right call is if Brady shows up tomorrow with a blown out leg, and the division would suddenly be up for grabs.
I'm not deluding myself into thinking that Cutler still has all this pent up potential at 34. But in the end, he can make throws Matt Moore can't make, and that's not nothing. It gives the team a higher ceiling, which with a roster with a lot of good, young talent, is far more important than bringing the floor up a win or two. Tannehill wasn't some great leader of men, either, and combined with Cutler's experience with Gase, I don't think the personality stuff (such that it may or may not even really exist in the first place) will be an issue. Contract disappears off the books after this year, and if it ends up blowing up one way or another and they get a higher pick in a jacked QB class next year, so be it. Maybe they decide to move on from Tannehill depending on how he heals, or maybe they have a great opportunity to trade down.
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As a fan, I like the Cutler move. I also like Matt Moore, but the team doesn't gain anything with a full season of Matt Moore. We know what he is, and that with this team (largely the same as the one he helmed at the end of last season) he'll win 6-8 games, resulting in a middling draft pick and a season that you might as well hit fast forward on. The only way I think riding with Moore would be the right call is if Brady shows up tomorrow with a blown out leg, and the division would suddenly be up for grabs.
I'm not deluding myself into thinking that Cutler still has all this pent up potential at 34. But in the end, he can make throws Matt Moore can't make, and that's not nothing. It gives the team a higher ceiling, which with a roster with a lot of good, young talent, is far more important than bringing the floor up a win or two. Tannehill wasn't some great leader of men, either, and combined with Cutler's experience with Gase, I don't think the personality stuff (such that it may or may not even really exist in the first place) will be an issue. Contract disappears off the books after this year, and if it ends up blowing up one way or another and they get a higher pick in a jacked QB class next year, so be it. Maybe they decide to move on from Tannehill depending on how he heals, or maybe they have a great opportunity to trade down.
This is a very healthy attitude. If I were still a Dolphins fan, I'd be on board with all of this, too. The "high ceiling" part is definitely true. Of course, folks have been saying that about Cutler for 11 years. It's a big "we'll see," but it's certainly a relatively low risk to take for a potentially decent reward.
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This is a very healthy attitude. If I were still a Dolphins fan, I'd be on board with all of this, too. The "high ceiling" part is definitely true. Of course, folks have been saying that about Cutler for 11 years. It's a big "we'll see," but it's certainly a relatively low risk to take for a potentially decent reward.
The "high ceiling" narrative/potential is over for Jay. He's an old vet. He's not going to become a top-10 starter in Miami.
That said, with Gase at the helm, he's a better option than Moore and perhaps even Tannehill. Hard to see the downside here for the Dolphins.
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It's tough to have an objective conversation on Cutler in Packer country because he played so much worse against the Packers than anyone else. He threw 16 TDs vs 22 INTs against Green Bay. Against everyone else, he was 192/124. That's not great, but still pretty good.
He's not going to go to Canton, but there are way worse options. For some reason, Capers has him figured out.
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Are teams not signing Kaepernik for fear that when their team goes on the road the home team will play the National Anthem every time their team is on the field and Kaep will just take a knee?
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Are teams not signing Kaepernik for fear that when their team goes on the road the home team will play the National Anthem every time their team is on the field and Kaep will just take a knee?
Meh, that was funny about a year ago
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Meh, that was funny about a year ago
He had a job a year ago.
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He had a job a year ago.
And people were making jokes about playing the national anthem during the game so he would kneel a year ago too. They even made jokes specifically about him not having the starting job because of it.
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The "high ceiling" narrative/potential is over for Jay. He's an old vet. He's not going to become a top-10 starter in Miami.
After a long, disappointing run with the always-crappy (back then) Patriots and then two terrible years in San Fran, Jim Plunkett went to Oakland as a washed-up old vet, and won two Super Bowls.
Doug Williams flamed out with the Bucs (despite having decent talent around him some of those years), went to Washington as a washed-up old vet, and won a Super Bowl.
Craig Morton landed in Denver as a washed-up old vet in 1977 and immediately led the Broncos to the Super Bowl.
Earl Morrall went to Miami as an ancient vet, replaced an injured Bob Griese and led the '72 Dolphins to an undefeated record.
Brett Favre sucked in his one year with the Jets, went to Minnesota and led the Vikings to a 13-3 record at age 40.
Shall I go on?
Obviously, me being the opposite of a "Cutler guy," I'm not saying anything like any of those scenarios will happen. But stranger things have happened. Cutler is at least as talented as Plunkett, Williams, Morton and Morrall were. He might not be as mentally tough as they were, though.
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I think Favre played well for the Jets until he hurt his arm. The last 3-4 games, he played like someone with an injured throwing arm. Which is pretty bad.
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I think Favre played well for the Jets until he hurt his arm. The last 3-4 games, he played like someone with an injured throwing arm. Which is pretty bad.
As a Jets fan (hard to admit right now) I'd have to agree. 8-3 before he tore his biceps tendon, 1-4 after. 20 TDs and 13 Ints in first 11 games. 2 TDs and 9 Ints in final 5 games. 70% completion percentage first 11 games. 56% in last 5 games. Definitely the injury.
Not to take away from MU82s original point.
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The "high ceiling" narrative/potential is over for Jay. He's an old vet. He's not going to become a top-10 starter in Miami.
That said, with Gase at the helm, he's a better option than Moore and perhaps even Tannehill. Hard to see the downside here for the Dolphins.
Yep. I know its not a perfect statistical analysis, but an average QBR over the 2016 season was about 60 (would rank 17th overall, between Carr and Bradford). Taking out the AZ game where he got hurt, Tannehill had a 60 or better QBR five times, and the Dolphins went 4-1 in those games, scoring 24, 30, 28, 31 and 31. In MIA's five losses with Tannehill, he had an average QBR of 27.8, and the Dolphins scored 24, 7, 17 and 6. Tannehill's total QBR was 24th out of 30 qualifiers. I know QBR isn't perfect by any means, but if its even mildly representative, the Dolphins just need Cutler to be average to stay in the hunt... maybe I'm talking myself into Moore after all?
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As a Jets fan (hard to admit right now) I'd have to agree. 8-3 before he tore his biceps tendon, 1-4 after. 20 TDs and 13 Ints in first 11 games. 2 TDs and 9 Ints in final 5 games. 70% completion percentage first 11 games. 56% in last 5 games. Definitely the injury.
Not to take away from MU82s original point.
One of my best moments as a Dolphins fan: Just for the heck of it, I went to the Week 17 Packers game that year, and wore my Jay Fiedler jersey under my winter gear. (Pennington was the QB that year, but my Jay Fiedler jersey is always relevant). Packers played at noon, and Jets-Dolphins for the division was at 3:15. Went to the bars in GB after the game, and for the first and last time in my life, my money was no good. Must have been the most popular guy in the place, and the joint went bonkers for Favre's pick-6 in the 2nd qtr and game sealing pick in the 4th.
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After a long, disappointing run with the always-crappy (back then) Patriots and then two terrible years in San Fran, Jim Plunkett went to Oakland as a washed-up old vet, and won two Super Bowls.
Doug Williams flamed out with the Bucs (despite having decent talent around him some of those years), went to Washington as a washed-up old vet, and won a Super Bowl.
Craig Morton landed in Denver as a washed-up old vet in 1977 and immediately led the Broncos to the Super Bowl.
Earl Morrall went to Miami as an ancient vet, replaced an injured Bob Griese and led the '72 Dolphins to an undefeated record.
Brett Favre sucked in his one year with the Jets, went to Minnesota and led the Vikings to a 13-3 record at age 40.
Shall I go on?
Obviously, me being the opposite of a "Cutler guy," I'm not saying anything like any of those scenarios will happen. But stranger things have happened. Cutler is at least as talented as Plunkett, Williams, Morton and Morrall were. He might not be as mentally tough as they were, though.
These are all examples from 20+ years ago when an amazing running game & defense could get you a SB as long as your QB just managed the game
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These are all examples from 20+ years ago when an amazing running game & defense could get you a SB as long as your QB just managed the game
Like the Broncos way back in 2016? Or maybe Seattle in 2014?
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One of my best moments as a Dolphins fan: Just for the heck of it, I went to the Week 17 Packers game that year, and wore my Jay Fiedler jersey under my winter gear. (Pennington was the QB that year, but my Jay Fiedler jersey is always relevant). Packers played at noon, and Jets-Dolphins for the division was at 3:15. Went to the bars in GB after the game, and for the first and last time in my life, my money was no good. Must have been the most popular guy in the place, and the joint went bonkers for Favre's pick-6 in the 2nd qtr and game sealing pick in the 4th.
That's awesome.
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well, if this is true, what's up? looks like spike lee may have to re-think his plans to protest in miami.
http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/07/nfl-source-kaepernick-turned-down-at-least-1-contract-to-play-up-the-race-card/
if he signs for the league minimum, his game(politics) and the media's is over
also, why isn't san francisco being called out? if kaep isn't good enough for one of the worst teams in the league, how the heck can one expect anyone above them even consider paying him starter money? why? he ain't worth starter money.
who uses their girlfriend as their agent? this must be one talented woman ::) she has convinced him to go "radical". either she is trying to live vicariously thru him, or, well, i'll leave the rest up to you guys. personally, i think he's thinkin with the wrong head or he needs to play the victim card.
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well, if this is true, what's up? looks like spike lee may have to re-think his plans to protest in miami.
http://dailycaller.com/2017/08/07/nfl-source-kaepernick-turned-down-at-least-1-contract-to-play-up-the-race-card/
if he signs for the league minimum, his game(politics) and the media's is over
also, why isn't san francisco being called out? if kaep isn't good enough for one of the worst teams in the league, how the heck can one expect anyone above them even consider paying him starter money? why? he ain't worth starter money.
who uses their girlfriend as their agent? this must be one talented woman ::) she has convinced him to go "radical". either she is trying to live vicariously thru him, or, well, i'll leave the rest up to you guys. personally, i think he's thinkin with the wrong head or he needs to play the victim card.
When you find a real news source for that story, please link to it.
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If I had led a team to the super bowl in the last 5 years and put up the numbers he did last season I wouldn't settle for the league minimum either.
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When you find a real news source for that story, please link to it.
it's as reputable to many as the huffington post is to your people, but pardon me for not checking with TMZ first
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it's as reputable to many as the huffington post is to your people, but pardon me for not checking with TMZ first
*Yawn*
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it's as reputable to many as the huffington post is to your people, but pardon me for not checking with TMZ first
When you see me link to either of those sources, feel free to say something. Just to let you know, you will be waiting a LONG time.
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If I had led a team to the super bowl in the last 5 years and put up the numbers he did last season I wouldn't settle for the league minimum either.
Then he/you/whoever is too good for a couple million dollars a year can sit at home unemployed and have rallies claiming you're being discriminated against.
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If I had led a team to the super bowl in the last 5 years and put up the numbers he did last season I wouldn't settle for the league minimum either.
I agree. $900,000 for 6 months work (quite possibly holding a clipboard) is nothing short of insulting. His plan B (being a brain surgeon) will mean a pay cut, but at least he'll have his dignity.
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Then he/you/whoever is too good for a couple million dollars a year can sit at home unemployed and have rallies claiming you're being discriminated against.
Its a choice. I don't think someone turning down an offer they think is too low especially in the process is a bad thing. I didn't jump on my first job offer after grad school because I thought it was too low. I stayed unemployed for a little while longer and eventually another offer came for significantly more money. It was the right decision. One season ending injury to a starter and Kaepernick is likely to get a better offer.
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One of my best moments as a Dolphins fan: Just for the heck of it, I went to the Week 17 Packers game that year, and wore my Jay Fiedler jersey under my winter gear. (Pennington was the QB that year, but my Jay Fiedler jersey is always relevant). Packers played at noon, and Jets-Dolphins for the division was at 3:15. Went to the bars in GB after the game, and for the first and last time in my life, my money was no good. Must have been the most popular guy in the place, and the joint went bonkers for Favre's pick-6 in the 2nd qtr and game sealing pick in the 4th.
This story an excellent microcosm of my life as a Jets fan.
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Its a choice. I don't think someone turning down an offer they think is too low especially in the process is a bad thing. I didn't jump on my first job offer after grad school because I thought it was too low. I stayed unemployed for a little while longer and eventually another offer came for significantly more money. It was the right decision. One season ending injury to a starter and Kaepernick is likely to get a better offer.
Not while Shaun Hill is still a free agent.
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Blind QB test (no peeking!).
Which of these guys aren't good enough for the NFL?
Last 10 NFL starts:
QB #1
272 for 408, 66.7 pct., 2,728 yards, 6.7 Y/A, 15 TDs, 11 INTs, 86.5 rating.
QB #2
217 for 339, 64 pct., 2,660 yards, 7.8 Y/A, 16 TDs, 10 INTs, 91.5 rating
QB #3
181 for 286, 63.2 pct., 2,208 yards, 7.7 Y/A, 11 TDs, 10 INTs, 85.2 rating
QB #4
183 for 302, 60.6 pct., 2,054 yards, 6.8 Y/A, 15 TDs, 4 INTs, 91.9 rating
QB #5
226 for 365, 61.9 pct., 2,239 yards, 6.1 Y/A, 18 TDs, 10 INTs, 84.2 rating
Pakuni, the suspense is killing me.
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Interesting factoid reading the Bills entry on Deadspin's "Why Your Team Sucks."
The Bills are 4-30 versus the Patriots since 2001. And each of the seasons where the Bills have managed a win, the Patriots have made the Super Bowl - winning three times.
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Pakuni, the suspense is killing me.
I thought you'd never ask!
1. Joe Flacco
2. Russell Wilson
3. Jay Cutler
4. Colin Kaepernick
5. Eli Manning
If Kaepernick has played too poorly recently to be worthy of an NFL job, what the heck are those guys doing in the league as starters (and earning, on average, $18.5 million this year)?
And these are just passing stats, excluding the rushing element Kap can bring (468 yards/6.8 ypc last year).