COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")

[Hards Alumni]

To be fair, Trump did act 2 years ago--by firing the pandemic response team.  Thank god Fauci is still around.

Fauci will have saved us thousands of lives without anyone noticing.  He is a good man.  Not a BSer

[Eldon]

Asymptomatic people are spreading it:

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2020/03/14/health/coronavirus-asymptomatic-spread/index.html

[MUDPT]

I work in the ED at a local hospital and will answer questions if anyone has them.  One thing that isn’t talked about is if you have relatives above 80, ASK THEM NOW, about advanced directives. Some may not want to go on a ventilator or extreme measures to save their life. Those things will be in short supply and the more we have, the better.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I hope the steps we are taking help push the line towards SC/Japan.  The China numbers are likely understated -- the Italy/Spain line is frightening.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

While Trump certainly deserves criticism for some of the things he has said, he has done things well too.  Shutting down travel from China was absolutely the right move, and he was called xenophobic and racist for it.

I agree with you.

He was right in shutting down travel from Europe, and got criticized for leaving the UK and Ireland open, because they had far fewer cases.  That changed the next day, on both counts. 

I completely disagree with this.  It should have been done much earlier and much more coordinated.  Some of the reports of long waits in customs lines, no immediate quarantining of sick passengers, and basically releasing everyone out the door like business as usual is making the disease spread faster and to more people.

This should have been a more coordinated effort with the airports and the airlines, with provisions for sick passengers and a way to quarantine them.  Announcing it as part of an address, and being wrong about the policy itself, and giving people just a day or two has actually made us less safe.

It was bluster for the sake of doing something bold and basically backfired.

[jsglow]

So, I see that this thread has gone completely political in the last 2 pages with each side going to their respective corner, including you rocky.  Color me disappointed.

Out.

[jficke13]

Trying to re-focus here, do not assume youth = survivablity. The odds are certainly in your favor if you're under 70ish, but there are dire cases cropping up of 30-40 year olds in critical condition.

The virus appears to be attacking a particular cell receptor that is most prevalent in the lungs but also exists in heart tissue. My wife is a PA and belongs to a group where providers are sharing experiences with the hope of somehow developing some kind of hive mind best practices to attack this thing. It's every bit as dire as it sounds, and it's hitting younger people by attacking heart tissue.

Also, another resource I've found that seems good, or at least informative.

Podcast: https://peterattiamd.com/covid-19-update-03152020/ and https://peterattiamd.com/peterhotez/

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

So, I see that this thread has gone completely political in the last 2 pages with each side going to their respective corner, including you rocky.  Color me disappointed.

Out.

LOL.  Debating whether or not the administration is taking the right steps is part of the issue.

[jficke13]

Also, this is another disconcerting line of analysis/thought: Apparently first responders and providers in China were disproportionately affected. Dr. Sidhartha Mukherjee (an oncologist and the guy who write "The Emperor of All Maladies," which, admittedly doesn't exactly make him a subspecialist in this) suggests that viral load may have something to do with it.

"1/2 And one thing MISSING from the conversation (I used to be a virologist by training) is VIRAL LOAD. Large volume exposure (huge viral load) may be different from low viral load. That MAY be why ER docs, and young nurses in China may be severely affected 2/2 So among the variables is total viral exposure.. and I have not seen a model of that. It's not just black and white (exposed/unexposed) but the total load that is exposed..."

More analysis here: https://www.reddit.com/r/medicine/comments/f8lrkj/why_are_so_many_young_doctors_dying_of_covid19_in/ citing a study of the SARS1 outbreak which correlated initial viral load with disease course.

"Hospital workers are likely to be exposed to especially high viral loads of covid19. People who are hospitalized with covid19 infections are likely to cough more and require close contact for procedures such as IV placement and intubation. It is hard to know for sure, but healthcare transmission risk may have been especially high in the early stages of the epidemic in Wuhan, when people were not as aware of the high mortality rates of this disease.

If viral load upon initial infection correlates with disease severity, this may also help to explain why some local clusters seem to have more severe disease, such as the family who all died of the disease. For some reason, people in these clusters may have been exposed to an especially high viral load. Ideally, we could measure the viral load of infected people with RT-PCR to test this, although it's hard enough to get basic yes/no tests for covid19 at this point.

The viral load theory is not rock solid. It may not explain a large percentage of the variance in disease severity - certainly age seems to be a larger factor. But to me, it is clearly the leading theory why a disproportionate number of young doctors without apparent pre-existing health problems have died of covid19 in Wuhan.

Healthcare workers putting themselves at risk to care for the sick during this pandemic are heroes. It is an urgent priority to have sufficient PPE available to our healthcare staff. We also need to have adequate space available to allow for the adequate distancing of staff and possibly infected patients. The viral load theory suggests that PPE and distancing are not only important for preventing healthcare workers from getting the illness but also decreasing the likelihood that they will die of the illness if they are infected."

[Hards Alumni]

Trying to re-focus here, do not assume youth = survivablity. The odds are certainly in your favor if you're under 70ish, but there are dire cases cropping up of 30-40 year olds in critical condition.

The virus appears to be attacking a particular cell receptor that is most prevalent in the lungs but also exists in heart tissue. My wife is a PA and belongs to a group where providers are sharing experiences with the hope of somehow developing some kind of hive mind best practices to attack this thing. It's every bit as dire as it sounds, and it's hitting younger people by attacking heart tissue.

Also, another resource I've found that seems good, or at least informative.

Podcast: https://peterattiamd.com/covid-19-update-03152020/ and https://peterattiamd.com/peterhotez/

To expand on that, I've read that the damage done by the disease leaves permanent damage in some cases to lung and heart tissue.  So, really, everyone should try to not get it.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

So, I see that this thread has gone completely political in the last 2 pages with each side going to their respective corner, including you rocky.  Color me disappointed.

Out.

One thing is not like the other.  At least everyone know nows for sure what politics are allowed and which are not.  And why some always get to stay while others get banned.

[Hards Alumni]

One thing is not like the other.  At least everyone know nows for sure what politics are allowed and which are not.  And why some always get to stay while others get banned.

Nah, not really.  If you actually read there is a pretty political post that got this latest storm started.  And its from right of center. 

It would be REALLY nice if we could just drop the politics, period, but some people can't help themselves.  And some people can't help but rush to the defense of politicians that haven't done a good job by any measurement.  That's when it becomes political.

It's as if calling the sky blue when its blue is political.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Nah, not really.  If you actually read there is a pretty political post that got this latest storm started.  And its from right of center. 

It would be REALLY nice if we could just drop the politics, period, but some people can't help themselves.  And some people can't help but rush to the defense of politicians that haven't done a good job by any measurement.  That's when it becomes political.

It's as if calling the sky blue when its blue is political.

And then the usual suspects started throwing monkey poo around (82, tsmith, da pontiff, pakuni) and rocky encourages it. 

Trump hasnt helped.  The media hasnt helped.  Pelosi hasnt helped.  Biden and bernie havent helped.  The CDC has, Fauci has. 

We should be able to discuss this without political finger pointing and pot shots.

But when the moderator says, go for it, but only from one side, that opens the deep tunnel into Lake Michigan.

And you Hards have done a commendable job keeping politics out of your posts.  Not so much the hysteria  but the political.   

[rocket surgeon]

"but some people can't help themselves.  And some people can't help but rush to the defense of politicians that haven't done a good job by any measurement"


   this is the red meat-how does one not respond to this.  everyone, especially "the other side" is going to be critiquing this to the max looking for an edge.  problem is that we are in uncharted territory so people need to be a little more tolerant if that's at all possible

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Interesting that the Governor's of Connecticut, New York & New Jersey had a joint press teleconference.  They are all trying to coordinate their responses in the tri-state area.  Indicated they were all speaking with Governors or Pennsylvania, Rhode Island and Massachusetts also and felt there probably would be additional coordination going forward with those states included.
* They are all talking with telecom companies about digital capacity to handle more people working at home.
* Federal government has a stockpile of medical supplies that only they can release.  States are limited on what they can attain as everyone is inquiring about the same pool of current available supplies.
* Will adjust public transportation based on demand.
* Additional sanitation and cleaning on public transportation.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

The CDC has, Fauci has. 

Jerome Adams, Deborah Birx....

Now that these people are out in front/empowered we should feel better.

[4everwarriors]

Eye cee, so Inn a knutshell, Trump's ta blame four da entire covid-19 outbrake, aina?

[skianth16]

I hope the steps we are taking help push the line towards SC/Japan.  The China numbers are likely understated -- the Italy/Spain line is frightening.

Maybe the curves look different when it comes to pandemic situations, but wouldn't we typically assume that a curve will plateau after a quick rise? China's experience looks like that, and it makes some sense to me given the way it hits a smaller portion of the population so disproportionately hard.

I read an article about a week ago that referenced Farr's Law, which more or less assumes that rapid increases in new cases tend to be followed by rapid declines in new cases, creating a bell curve type shape. If that's the case, I would expect a similar pattern for mortality. Maybe someone more familiar can clarify or build on whether this is assumed to be relevant or not.

[MUBurrow]

I'm not sure how you can completely cut out any discussion of the messaging and actions of centralized government when discussing pandemic response.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

And then the usual suspects started throwing monkey poo around (82, tsmith, da pontiff, pakuni) and rocky encourages it. 

What have I said that is political?  I said that his travel ban to China was in retrospect was a good thing, but his European ban was not.

[skianth16]

Some positive news on the testing front. Jack Ma is sending half a million tests to the US, and the FDA just approved a new test from Roche that can be produced in quantities of up to 1.5 million per month. There are also existing machines in hospitals that can process the test.

https://www.npr.org/2020/03/13/815522836/u-s-coronavirus-testing-gets-a-breakthrough

https://time.com/5803791/jack-ma-alibaba-coronavirus/

[TSmith34, Inc.]

Eye cee, so Inn a knutshell, Trump's ta blame four da entire covid-19 outbrake, aina?

No. But the government is responsible for the response to it, and discussing what we should or shouldn't be doing seems on point for the topic.

[Coleman]

Fauci will have saved us thousands of lives without anyone noticing.  He is a good man.  Not a BSer

Agreed. This is going to be ugly. But I have a feeling it will not be as bad as it could have been, thanks to Fauci.

Give the dude every award in the book when the dust settles.

[Hards Alumni]

"but some people can't help themselves.  And some people can't help but rush to the defense of politicians that haven't done a good job by any measurement"


   this is the red meat-how does one not respond to this.  everyone, especially "the other side" is going to be critiquing this to the max looking for an edge.  problem is that we are in uncharted territory so people need to be a little more tolerant if that's at all possible

I'm absolutely criticizing both sides.  They've done an awful job of this.  But our leader has bungled this, and the buck stops with him.  So criticism is absolutely fair.  I know its red meat, but MAYBE be objective and agree that it has been mishandled.

On another note, I was just at the dentist, and every precaution was being taken... including not polishing to prevent aerosolization. 

[MU Fan in Connecticut]

Agreed. This is going to be ugly. But I have a feeling it will not be as bad as it could have been, thanks to Fauci.

Give the dude every award in the book when the dust settles.

Time Person of the Year 2020