Year 2 (Archie), Year 5 Wojo

[brewcity77]

This is why I am keen on the scenario where someone else wants Wojo and Stan steps in. MU can can cash in and not have to shell out for Stan.

Honestly, he'd probably be at best fourth on my list. I think my top choice would be Luke Yaklich, with proven program builders and guys well connected in the Midwest like Brian Wardle and TJ Otzelberger also on the list.

[GGGG]

I would be fine with Nate Oats before Stan too.  We have no idea if Stan can actually coach.

[brewcity77]

I would be fine with Nate Oats before Stan too.  We have no idea if Stan can actually coach.

Nate is another that would be on my list. Local guy that definitely seems to have coaching chops.

[tower912]

Stan upside:   Critical in the recruitment of much of the team, continuity, a proven recruiter
Stan downside:   Just another assistant from a high major with no head coaching experience.   
Porter Moser upside:   One good run.
Porter Moser downside:   All of his other seasons. 
Wardle Upside:   MU roots, likely won't go anywhere else.
Wardle downside:   How much has he actually won?    There is a reason there won't be a ton of competition to grab him
 

 The transition to the big chair isn't for everyone.     I remember when another coach was the lead assistant at a high major program for years with experience recruiting, the olympic team and known for his defense as a player.      And who knows what a mid major coach will do when given the big chair.    Buzz or Groce?

[brewcity77]

There's risk in every hire. That's why I like Yaklich. I think going with the defense first guy is a bit safer. I also think it's easier to find an assistant that can help run the offense than one that is laser focused on defense. Same for recruiting. As valuable as Stan has been, Nelson, Chew, Benford, and others have all been able to get players. You can find those guys if you're willing to pay, and we always have been.

[Newsdreams]

So you lied. There was no contract extension, you made it up.

Yep what he is consistent at, obviously Northern has not read enough of Cain's posts. The showboating is his strength.

[Herman Cain]

So you lied. There was no contract extension, you made it up.

I think  the deal that was made was actually better from Wojo's standpoint than a pure contract extension per se. The amendment cements the contract in place until one of the parties says no more.

Honestly, he'd probably be at best fourth on my list. I think my top choice would be Luke Yaklich, with proven program builders and guys well connected in the Midwest like Brian Wardle and TJ Otzelberger also on the list.

I think any of the names mentioned above would roughly have the same economic benefit to MU in the event Stan wasn't the man.

[Its DJOver]

Curious why people people who aren't sold on Wojo (justifiably so) think that Stan would be any better.  Yea if he were head coach, he would probably run things differently than Wojo, but if he was the next big thing (i.e. Majerus) waiting in the wings, don't you think that our production would have been better in the 3 years he has already been on the staff?

[GGGG]

Curious why people people who aren't sold on Wojo (justifiably so) think that Stan would be any better.  Yea if he were head coach, he would probably run things differently than Wojo, but if he was the next big thing (i.e. Majerus) waiting in the wings, don't you think that our production would have been better in the 3 years he has already been on the staff?

There really is only one person (Herman), and most of his stuff is an act anyway.

[Its DJOver]

There really is only one person (Herman), and most of his stuff is an act anyway.

Gotcha, I knew something smelled fishy.

[Floorslapper]

Curious why people people who aren't sold on Wojo (justifiably so) think that Stan would be any better.  Yea if he were head coach, he would probably run things differently than Wojo, but if he was the next big thing (i.e. Majerus) waiting in the wings, don't you think that our production would have been better in the 3 years he has already been on the staff?

Considering Stan was the one able to close the deals with most of our current players, he's the guy that seemingly connects best.

Your point regarding why haven't we been better with Stan as an assistant - wouldn't he be able to impact our existing performance better under Wojo?  Assistants don't get the ultimate say in who plays, the rotation, the substitutions in a game.  The buck stops with the head coach.  Think no further than how Wes Matthews was used under Crean, versus how he was used by Buzz.  Wes said it himself:  It feels like I've had the shackles taken off.

[GGGG]

Considering Stan was the one able to close the deals with most of our current players, he's the guy that seemingly connects best.

Your point regarding why haven't we been better with Stan as an assistant - wouldn't he be able to impact our existing performance better under Wojo?  Assistants don't get the ultimate say in who plays, the rotation, the substitutions in a game.  The buck stops with the head coach.  Think no further than how Wes Matthews was used under Crean, versus how he was used by Buzz.  Wes said it himself:  It feels like I've had the shackles taken off.

You're making a couple of assumptions here that have no evidence really.  There is no evidence that Stan connects better or worse than Wojo does.  There is also no evidence that he would think differently.

Buzz and TC was a marriage of convenience that lasted one season.  Wojo and Stan have been together starting their fourth season now.  If there were fundamental philosophical differences, my guess is that they would have parted ways earlier.

[Herman Cain]

You're making a couple of assumptions here that have no evidence really.  There is no evidence that Stan connects better or worse than Wojo does.  There is also no evidence that he would think differently.

Buzz and TC was a marriage of convenience that lasted one season.  Wojo and Stan have been together starting their fourth season now.  If there were fundamental philosophical differences, my guess is that they would have parted ways earlier.

There is a considerable body of evidence that supports the ability of Stan to connect. First, Stan was the intermediary that led to the armistice that was signed between JJJ and Wojo. Stan , working closely with Brett Nelson,  gained JJJ's trust when they rebuilt his jump shot and then got him to buy into the things that Wojo was unable to obtain through  his brute force techniques.  The net result was very favorable for the team. Stan was also the key guy behind the scenes working with Sacar and getting his buy in on the sophomore season redshirt, which is not a very easy sale. Stan worked very hard last season with Greg and Jamal to help them focus their skills in a way that resonated at the Big East level.  The dividends from that connection are going to be very valuable .

[tower912]

So Stan has been the good cop.    Wojo was the good cop for K.     Does being the good cop mean translate to being an effective head coach?

[Its DJOver]

I could be wrong, but it is my understanding that many times in practices/scrimmages wojo will coach one group of 5 and an assistant will coach another set of 5. If one of the assistants were leaps and bounds better than wojo and their 5 were consistently beating wojos, I would hope wojo would recognize that and lean more heavily on them for in game adjustment/the drawing up of plays.  I still think wojo can get the job done, but if it turns out that he can't, I would most definently be in favor of an outside hire, versus the promotion of an assistant.

[NickelDimer]

One thing we know about Stan is he can recruit. That’s also the one thing we know about Wojo. One thing I personally believe about Wojo is he can’t coach. That’s something we don’t know about Stan. So there’s a possibility he matches/exceeds Wojo’s recruiting ability and maybe he can exceed his coaching ability

[ChitownSpaceForRent]

Assistant coaches play a huge role in practice, usually with the scout team.

If Stan was really that great of a x’s and o’s coach and strategist (he could be, but I’m skeptical) don’t you think Marquette woulda been more prepared on a Wednesday?

Cmon now, I know it’s scoop but people are being especially ridiculous with this one. ESPECIALLY, since this kind of loss happens to Marquette once a year, no matter who is coaching.

[GGGG]

i

One thing we know about Stan is he can recruit. That’s also the one thing we know about Wojo. One thing I personally believe about Wojo is he can’t coach. That’s something we don’t know about Stan. So there’s a possibility he matches/exceeds Wojo’s recruiting ability and maybe he can exceed his coaching ability

Wojo “can’t coach?”  Cmon. He may not be able to take Marquette to the next level but he can coach. I mean Stan could conceivably be worse.  Much worse.

Hyperbole doesn’t suit you.

[skianth16]

i

Wojo “can’t coach?”  Cmon. He may not be able to take Marquette to the next level but he can coach. I mean Stan could conceivably be worse.  Much worse.

Hyperbole doesn’t suit you.

Do we have evidence that Wojo can coach at this point? Just because someone might be worse doesn't make Wojo good.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Do we have evidence that Wojo can coach at this point? Just because someone might be worse doesn't make Wojo good.

I can't speak for others, but in my evaluation, we have enough evidence to say that Wojo is a "C-level" coach. I believe this because based on the roster assembled at the start of each season, the team has pretty much performed to expectation. I could hear an argument for a slight underachievement in year two and an argument for a slight overachievment in year three. He doesn't make a team better than the sum of its parts and he doesn't make the team worse than the sum of its parts.

Now this can be okay as long as you are bringing in quality rosters. A C coach with an A+ roster is going to have a pretty good season. I'd argue Sean Miller has been doing that for years at Arizona (setting aside the alleged scandals).

Now this doesn't mean a coach will stay at the same level forever. Coaches develop and they can regress. This is the best roster Wojo has assembled to date. If he performs to expectations (top 30ish type team) his seat will be cool and stay cool until he either regresses or stops bringing in talented rosters (2020 class will be key). If he regresses the seat will start to warm pretty quickly. If he develops than who cares? We'll be too busy celebrating.

[MUDPT]

Wojo is a good offensive coach. I feel they run some high level “NBA style” sets. And I don’t think they did much of it the first two games, because they were beating those teams anyways. Why waste your good stuff on bad teams? They were not great from 3 the other night and were just under a point per possession.

Defense, not so great...

[rocket surgeon]

Define disaster...to me, if they miss the tourney, that is an unmitigated disaster, and he needs to go..if they make the tourney and don't get higher then say a 7-8 seed(6 is teetering on the brink)..that's a disaster and to me he should go, but I'm sure he wouldn't because this administration seems satisfied with mediocrity.

It’s not the seed as much as where/ how far we go.  What?  You gonna fire him before game one of the tourney because we were a low seed?  I know what you mean, but I’m worried about the blood caffeine counts on this board sometimes.

[Goose]

TAMU
Your grading is probably accurate. My problem is that he responsible to put the roster together. In fairness to Wojo, I do think he can recruit, and at different job he might land the whales he has chased. IMO, he is going to land more three stars than four or five stars. If that is the case, he cannot afford to be a C grade coach.

[Its DJOver]

Do we have evidence that Wojo can coach at this point? Just because someone might be worse doesn't make Wojo good.

Good question.  Lets look at some of Wojos recent results against other Beast coaches.

CU- Last two years Wojo is 4-0, despite CU having 2 future NBA players, another 1st team all Beast player, and a coach that was highly looked upon for bringing the program from mid to high major.  Not to mention if that coach was cheating he should automatically have "coaching points" subtracted.

DePaul- 4-1 last two years, and even if they had a great coach, It may not matter because that program has much larger problems.

Butler-  This is where some are going to start accusing me of being a Homer (and that's okay). Despite what happened last year, I'm still not sold on Jordan for two reasons.  First, what he did at UWM, I realize that he didn't have very much talent, but he put up the same record that Wojo did his first year, in a much worse conference.  Two, I think Holtmann was extremely undervalued during his time there.  Was the second best coach in the conference IMO.

X- Mack was better than Wojo, Steele is obviously still a question mark.

Nova-  Wright obviously the best coach in the conference.

SH-  Willard was seen as a good coach when he got his great class to win the BET as sophomores.  What happened when that class were seniors (exception of Whitehead), Wojo swept them.

STJ- Mullin seems similar to Wojo in the fact that he can assemble some good players, but are inconsistent on the court.  Split the series last year.

Gtown- Ewing should still be seen as a question mark in his second year.  I'm also worried that rumurs were floated that he only took Gtown because he couldn't get a HC gig in the NBA, and would leave if someone came calling.  Either way, Wojo swept him last year.

PC-  Cooley has proven to be a very good coach, who I would slot ahead of Wojo.

So is Wojo the best coach in the conference, and the next Coach K?  No, but I do not think that he is the worst.  We've been part of the log jam in the middle of the conference the last two years, so I think Wojo should be part of the log jam in the middle of coaching ranks.  Lets see what happens when this year concludes.

 

[MarquetteDano]

So is Wojo the best coach in the conference, and the next Coach K?  No, but I do not think that he is the worst.  We've been part of the log jam in the middle of the conference the last two years, so I think Wojo should be part of the log jam in the middle of coaching ranks.  Lets see what happens when this year concludes.

I am not sure these are fair comparisons. Some of these programs do not have the inherent advantages (fan base,  facilities, budget, etc,) that Marquette has. If you compare similar programs Wojo has been at best below average thus far.

Hoping it turns around fast but I must admit my patience will be gone by end of season.