Why JJJ has to play 25+ minutes per game

[NersEllenson]

Sorry, you are wrong.  I played in high school and as a senior coached a team of sophomores and juniors to a park district championship so I clearly know better than you.  Please do not try to argue as I have BOTH coaching and playing experience.  

I'm curious.  Do you actually LOL when you type 'LOL'?  Just looking to get a response from you in this thread that actually makes sense.  Much appreciated!

I always LOL when I read your take Blue Man.  They are absolutely laugh out loud funny (and ignorant.)

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Sorry.  I'm not wrong on JJJ.  I'm not wrong on Derrick.  I wasn't wrong on Buzz last season.  And I'm not wrong on Wojo this season - he's made plenty of mistakes, yet gets a pass as a rookie head coach.  I'll be much more bullish on Wojo as a coach if he starts to course correct starting tonight against Xavier.  Or will he pull a Buzz and grind us right down to the stretch with 35+ minutes of Derrick Wilson and continued losses mounting, while relegating arguably our most talented player to the bench for 25+ minutes per game?

Well, here's the logic:

You've repeated your credentials over and over again to build your credibility. Fine. You know more about basketball than I do.

You've repeated that coaches can be wrong from time to time (even good coaches). Fine. Not every coach gets it right.

Why is it so hard for you to believe that Wojo (a guy with way more credentials than anybody, including you) might be right, and you might be wrong (even Bill Belicheck didn't start Tom Brady in week 1).

I can appreciate that you have a specific viewpoint and opinion, but your inability to recognize that you might be wrong is maddening. You won't even allow for that possibility?

[WarriorInNYC]

As for NYC's post.  You'll note stats somehow weren't available for JJJ's clunker against Ohio State, which would have helped bring his numbers down.  

Yep, as the link provided here shows, those stats are somehow not available

http://espn.go.com/ncb/playbyplay?gameId=400588333

And I would probably attribute Wojo sticking with him that whole game more to Wojo's second game head coaching ever.  

[WarriorInNYC]

I'm not sure a dumber thing has been said on Scoop than to suggest Derrick Wilson is a more productive player than JJJ.

Look, I'm sure Wojo wants the glory and spotlight for JJJ's nice performance Saturday.

[GooooMarquette]

I can appreciate that you have a specific viewpoint and opinion, but your inability to recognize that you might be wrong is maddening. You won't even allow for that possibility?

I realized Ners had serious pathology when I recognized his inability to entertain the possibility that maybe, just maybe, he might be the one who is wrong here.  He keeps telling us that coaches make mistakes - and of course they do - but his mind can't fathom the possibility that he might be the one making the mistake about Derrick.

Reminds me of FreeportWarrior's great post about maturity.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Sorry.  I'm not wrong on JJJ.  I'm not wrong on Derrick.  I wasn't wrong on Buzz last season.  And I'm not wrong on Wojo this season - he's made plenty of mistakes, yet gets a pass as a rookie head coach.  I'll be much more bullish on Wojo as a coach if he starts to course correct starting tonight against Xavier.  Or will he pull a Buzz and grind us right down to the stretch with 35+ minutes of Derrick Wilson and continued losses mounting, while relegating arguably our most talented player to the bench for 25+ minutes per game?

This is where you always shoot yourself in the foot. No one has any issues with your opinions. You think Derrick is a terrible player. Fine. You think John Dawson would have saved our season last year. Fine. You think JjJ needs to be allowed to play through mistakes. Fine. You think there is enough talent on this team to make the tournament. Fine. Those are all fine opinions. I disagree, as do many others, but that's fine. Fans disagree. That's why these sites exist.

But when you sit there and say "I am not wrong" "these are facts. PERIOD." "You are all idiots with ludicrous ideas" "Buzz is wrong" "Wojo is wrong", how can you expect anyone to take you seriously? You can think to yourself these things, but do you really expect us to listen to your ideas when you declare that a vast majority of this board is made up of idiots? That both Buzz and Wojo are idiots? You're not going to convince anyone of anything with that approach.

Just look around you. Last season you had a solid group of people who shared your ideas and backed you up. You have gone so far down the rabbit hole that they have all abandoned you. TW is the only one left. Well, except for the Badger trolls who occasionally come in. To quote Ted Moseby, "If you can't spot the crazy person on the bus, it's you." I'll add an addendum to it "If you can't spot the crazy person on the bus OR you think you are on a bus full of crazy people, it's you."

[Vander Blue Man Group]

I always LOL when I read your take Blue Man.  They are absolutely laugh out loud funny (and ignorant.)

Ners, if ignorance is bliss you must be the happiest f**king guy in the world. 

[NersEllenson]

Ners, if ignorance is bliss you must be the happiest f**king guy in the world. 

That was well played Vander Blue Man.  Nice work.  Though I stand by my statement that I do LOL every time I read your ludicrous opinions on the game of basketball.  If in your delusional world you feel Derrick Wilson can lead a team to victory, you must live in one fantasy land of a world.

[GooooMarquette]

Ners, if ignorance is bliss you must be the happiest f**king guy in the world. 

Probably true with one exception.  It has to be frustrating as he!! when there's some hot blonde in front of him at hot yoga, and all he can see on her butt is Derrick's face.

[MerrittsMustache]

Can we all just take step back and agree that the username-avatar combo of Vander Blue Man Group and a blue Tobias Funke is about as good as it gets?

[wadesworld]

Can we all just take step back and agree that the username-avatar combo of Vander Blue Man Group and a blue Tobias Funke is about as good as it gets?

Good call.

[Vander Blue Man Group]

That was well played Vander Blue Man.  Nice work.  Though I stand by my statement that I do LOL every time I read your ludicrous opinions on the game of basketball.  If in your delusional world you feel Derrick Wilson can lead a team to victory, you must live in one fantasy land of a world.

Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else but I would love to see where I ever said Derrick Wilson can regularly lead a team to victory or that I think he is an excellent player.  To save you the time - I have not.  In fact, earlier in this Godforsaken thread I stated that Derrick would be a solid backup PG on a good team.  If that to you equates to "Derrick Wilson can lead a team to victory" you might have some comprehension issues.  

You see I can disagree with your take on JJJ without even bringing Derrick into the equation.  Unfortunately, you are not able to do so.  You are obsessed, it seems.  

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Can we all just take step back and agree that the username-avatar combo of Vander Blue Man Group and a blue Tobias Funke is about as good as it gets?

I can agree with that one, and thank you. 

[Vander Blue Man Group]

Perhaps Ners could use a session or two with Tobias.  He is, after all, both an analyst and therapist.  Ners, I've included his business card below if you'd like to reach out for help:

[NersEllenson]

Perhaps you are confusing me with someone else but I would love to see where I ever said Derrick Wilson can regularly lead a team to victory or that I think he is an excellent player.  To save you the time - I have not.  In fact, earlier in this Godforsaken thread I stated that Derrick would be a solid backup PG on a good team.  If that to you equates to "Derrick Wilson can lead a team to victory" you might have some comprehension issues.  

You see I can disagree with your take on JJJ without even bringing Derrick into the equation.  Unfortunately, you are not able to do so.  You are obsessed, it seems.  

My bad Blue Man. Thread has been all over.  Agree to disagree on JJJ.  Came completely off the rails when TAMU said he'd take Derrick Wilson's production every day of the week over JJJ.

[GGGG]

So this thread only came completely off the rails about an hour ago?

[Vander Blue Man Group]

My bad Blue Man. Thread has been all over.  Agree to disagree on JJJ.  Came completely off the rails when TAMU said he'd take Derrick Wilson's production every day of the week over JJJ.

That's cool - I'm sure I'm coming off as more of a d*ck than I intend.  Agree to strenuously disagree.

[Lighthouse 84]

This is where you always shoot yourself in the foot. No one has any issues with your opinions.

Wanna bet?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

You invented this criteria now of:  He's played 2 games well against Top 100 teams for the first time.  Newsflash - JJJ hasn't even played in back to back games all year against Top 100 teams 25+ minutes. He doesn't make the schedule.  Hell he's had only 2, 2 game stints where he did play back to back 25+ minutes:  TN Martin and OSU.  And then North Dakota State and MOrgan State.  Had his highest O-Rating of the year against Tennessee and only got 15 minutes - so what does that mean?  Wojo didn't play him more minutes just because he was playing well.  LOL.

As for my cherry picking - I'm not trying to parse the data into all kinds of different subsets - Teams Top 100, games against teams Top 100 back to back - you guys are the ones that HAVE to parse the data into all kinds of subsets to try to discredit the reality and truth of JJJ getting 25+ minutes per game - he performs well.  Regardless of if it is against Morgan State, or ASU, Providence, or Seton Hall.

As for Bama's stats - Pomeroy's stats also suggest Derrick Wilson is a Limited Role Player, yet oddly enough he plays the highest percentage of minutes on this team at 78.4%.  How can you be a limited role player when you play max minutes?!  Incongruent.  How is a team going to perform well when it leading minute getter doesn't produce?

***And most indicting of you and your bias:  "I'll take Derrick Wilson's production over JJJ's every day of the week." ****

Wow.  Just wow.  You give JJJ 32+ minutes every game this season and his production would absolutely and totally blow Derrick Wilson's production out of the water.  I'm not sure a dumber thing has been said on Scoop than to suggest Derrick Wilson is a more productive player than JJJ.

Ners,

You do understand that by you narrowing it down to games of 25+minutes or more that you are "trying to parse data into all sorts of subsets" right? Why not extend the range to 22 minutes so his clunker against powerhouse Alabama A&M is included? Why not extend it to 20 minutes so his average game against MSU and his clunker against Georgetown is included? Hell, last season you told us that a player needed 10 minutes to get in a grove. Why not extend the range to there?

I narrowed it to top 100 teams because that seems like a reasonable line for determining "top competition." JjJ has consistently devoured cupcakes and done poorly against top competition. The fact that you refuse to acknowledge that fact is proof of your bias. I brought up NOVA and HALL being JjJ's first back to back solid outings against top competition because its true. You say its because he's unfairly benched. I say its because he hasn't performed well enough to stay off the bench. But now, for the first time, he did get 2 solid runs of playing time. Isn't that something to be celebrated?

You've brought up the Tennessee game before. Honestly, I don't remember what JjJ was like in that game (Though I do think it's funny that you are using O-rating as a justification even though you spent half of this thread tearing it apart). But what I do remember is that we won that game and that it was our third best win of the year. Is it possible that even though JjJ was playing really well, that others on the team were still playing better?

You've also brought up Pomeroy's limited role player label for Derrick before. As I understand it, that means he is highly efficient and low usage. On a good team, he would be a top bench player or worst starter. What does it say about JjJ (I don't have a KP subscription)? Because he is low efficency but high usage. That means that on a good team, he would be a benchwarmer. Limited role player is better than whatever JjJ is.

You seem to not understand that as minutes go up, production rate decreases, not the other way around. That is baksetball stats 101. JjJ would score more points and steal more. Derrick would get more boards, have more assists, turn the ball over WAY less, shoot at a higher FG% and 3P%. And we can argue all day about whether or not Derrick's defense is elite or not but I think even you would agree that he is a better defender than JjJ. He would also do those little things that you love to criticize much better. You conveniently sidestepped this point, but there is a reason why Derrick has the second highest value add and JjJ has the second lowest.

Also, even though this thread title is about JjJ, it's really about Derrick isn't it? I don't think you actually give a rat's arse about JjJ's playing time, I think what you really care about is taking playing time away from Derrick. JjJ just happens to be the only guy on the bench who could feasibly take Derrick's minutes.

[Shark]

This thread is basically nothing but hot takes to outdo the previous hot take.

[Lighthouse 84]

That's cool - I'm sure I'm coming off as more of a d*ck than I intend.  Agree to strenuously disagree.

Reminds me of the first bench trial I had 27 years or so ago when I first became a lawyer.   I stood up and said, I strenuously object!  The other lawyer just looked at me and laughed....

[GooooMarquette]

This thread is basically nothing but hot takes to outdo the previous hot take.

Says the one with the Shark avatar....

[GooooMarquette]

Reminds me of the first bench trial I had 27 years or so ago when I first became a lawyer.   I stood up and said, I strenuously object!  The other lawyer just looked at me and laughed....

Didn't someone do that in "A Few Good Men?"

[NersEllenson]

Well, here's the logic:

You've repeated your credentials over and over again to build your credibility. Fine. You know more about basketball than I do.

You've repeated that coaches can be wrong from time to time (even good coaches). Fine. Not every coach gets it right.

Why is it so hard for you to believe that Wojo (a guy with way more credentials than anybody, including you) might be right, and you might be wrong (even Bill Belicheck didn't start Tom Brady in week 1).

I can appreciate that you have a specific viewpoint and opinion, but your inability to recognize that you might be wrong is maddening. You won't even allow for that possibility?

Here's my premise:

Do you feel on this year's team we HAVE to have Derrick Wilson playing the PG position?  

Do you feel Duane Wilson and Matt Carlino both are capable enough to play the PG position?

It's been argued Derrick's best role (even by his supporters is that of a 10-15 minute backup)?  Does this not seem to be a possibility this season?

Given that the team is 11-12, and JJJ basically doubles Derrick Wilson in points per 40, rebounds the ball at a higher rate, blocks shots at a higher rate, steals the ball at a higher rate, and ACTUALLY TURNS THE BALL OVER LESS (as measured by turnover percentage) - why does Wojo feel he HAS to play Derrick 33+ minutes per game?

http://statsheet.com/mcb/players/compare?add=derrick-wilson&p1=3-jajuan-johnson

In my view, the Marquette team would be much more formidable if you played a lineup of:

Matt
Duane
JJJ
Juan/Steve
Luke

I simply do not see the downside to making the change to the above, and I feel you have to play your most talented players the most minutes.  JJJ is infinitely more talented than Derrick Wilson.  As are Matt Carlino and Duane Wilson.

[MerrittsMustache]

Didn't someone do that in "A Few Good Men?"

"Well, if you strenuously object then I should take some time to reconsider."