COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")

[pacearrow02]

I'm glad we have an expert like you here.  Lie or severe underestimation of risk?

March 25: “Nobody would ever believe a thing like that’s possible. Nobody could have ever seen something like this coming, but now we know, and we know it can happen and happen again.”

— Trump at a task force briefing, claiming falsely that no one saw a pandemic like the coronavirus coming

Who could see a once in a lifetime pandemic hitting?  Prior to December of ‘19 are you suggesting anyone outside of China knew this thing was about to flip our worlds upside down?

[naginiF]

Who could see a once in a lifetime pandemic hitting?  Prior to December of ‘19 are you suggesting anyone outside of China knew this thing was about to flip our worlds upside down?

Absolutely EVERYONE outside of the current administration knew...
https://twitter.com/joebiden/status/1187829299207954437?lang=en

[Uncle Rico]

He knew at the beginning of February at the latest.  It’s on the tapes.  A real leader, not a narcissistic child, would have addressed the nation and told everyone (he’s the president of the United States, not just his base) the truth.  This idea we’d panic?  There was panic anyway, all you had to do was go to the grocery store.  And if the people across the world could hear the truth and we couldn’t, that doesn’t say much about us. 

Instead, we get a dithering, inconsistent message and attacks on perceived enemies instead of real leadership.  A real leader would have told his fellow Americans the next few months could be hard.  Tough choice and sacrifices would have to be made but that he believed Americans would do their part to beat this and help his fellow American do so.  Instead, he pitted Americans against one another.  Instead of putting together a cohesive plan that was implemented nationally, we took a haphazard localized approach that has been shoddy at best.

History won’t look kindly on America in 2020.  It won’t look kindly at the man in the White House and it won’t look kindly on his sycophantic followers.  It’s an abject failure in leadership and a dereliction of duty.

[Pakuni]

Who could see a once in a lifetime pandemic hitting?  Prior to December of ‘19 are you suggesting anyone outside of China knew this thing was about to flip our worlds upside down?

Who could have seen it coming?

Former President Barack Obama warned the nation in 2014 about the potential for a coming pandemic and pushed for billions in emergency funding that was ultimately blocked by Republicans in Congress.
In a speech on December 2 that year in Bethesda, Maryland, Obama urged Congress to set aside partisan differences and pass funding to combat pandemics in the future.
“There may and likely will come a time in which we have both an airborne disease that is deadly, and in order for us to deal with that effectively we have to put in place an infrastructure, not just here at home but globally, that allows us to see it quickly, isolate it quickly, respond to it quickly, so that if and when a new strain of flu like the Spanish flu crops up five years from now or a decade from now, we’ve made the investment and we’re further along to be able to catch it.”
Nearly a month earlier, on November 5, 2014, Obama asked lawmakers for $6.18 billion in emergency funds to enhance the government’s ability to respond to an outbreak of Ebola, which was an urgent situation at the time.
Obama’s request included $4.64 billion for immediate response and $1.54 billion as a contingency fund to ensure that there are resources available to meet the evolving nature of the epidemic.
But in an ultra-conservative Congress with little appetite for big spending measures, Obama’s proposal was pretty much dead on arrival.

https://www.ajc.com/news/obama-warned-pandemic-threat-2014-but-republicans-blocked-funding/dh2H9HxiuBY05T5uPqtqpI/

[pacearrow02]

He knew at the beginning of February at the latest.  It’s on the tapes.  A real leader, not a narcissistic child, would have addressed the nation and told everyone (he’s the president of the United States, not just his base) the truth.  This idea we’d panic?  There was panic anyway, all you had to do was go to the grocery store.  And if the people across the world could hear the truth and we couldn’t, that doesn’t say much about us. 

Instead, we get a dithering, inconsistent message and attacks on perceived enemies instead of real leadership.  A real leader would have told his fellow Americans the next few months could be hard.  Tough choice and sacrifices would have to be made but that he believed Americans would do their part to beat this and help his fellow American do so.  Instead, he pitted Americans against one another.  Instead of putting together a cohesive plan that was implemented nationally, we took a haphazard localized approach that has been shoddy at best.

History won’t look kindly on America in 2020.  It won’t look kindly at the man in the White House and it won’t look kindly on his sycophantic followers.  It’s an abject failure in leadership and a dereliction of duty.

That’s the beauty of all this.  The 7 months of back and forth all gets decided in November on whether we as a country approved of the response.

[pacearrow02]

Who could have seen it coming?

Former President Barack Obama warned the nation in 2014 about the potential for a coming pandemic and pushed for billions in emergency funding that was ultimately blocked by Republicans in Congress.
In a speech on December 2 that year in Bethesda, Maryland, Obama urged Congress to set aside partisan differences and pass funding to combat pandemics in the future.
“There may and likely will come a time in which we have both an airborne disease that is deadly, and in order for us to deal with that effectively we have to put in place an infrastructure, not just here at home but globally, that allows us to see it quickly, isolate it quickly, respond to it quickly, so that if and when a new strain of flu like the Spanish flu crops up five years from now or a decade from now, we’ve made the investment and we’re further along to be able to catch it.”
Nearly a month earlier, on November 5, 2014, Obama asked lawmakers for $6.18 billion in emergency funds to enhance the government’s ability to respond to an outbreak of Ebola, which was an urgent situation at the time.
Obama’s request included $4.64 billion for immediate response and $1.54 billion as a contingency fund to ensure that there are resources available to meet the evolving nature of the epidemic.
But in an ultra-conservative Congress with little appetite for big spending measures, Obama’s proposal was pretty much dead on arrival.

https://www.ajc.com/news/obama-warned-pandemic-threat-2014-but-republicans-blocked-funding/dh2H9HxiuBY05T5uPqtqpI/

Well of course Obama saw it coming. 

[Pakuni]

Try to keep up Pakuni.  I’ve acknowledged it hasn’t been perfect but imo solid overall.  His messaging at times has been awful, his policies have been good and for the most in line with what Fauci and the rest of the task force was asking for. 

Well, the empirical data proves we're far from solid overall. That's not even worth debating.
But on the policies, the problem you seem to be ignoring, or not grasping, is that anything positive that's been done or recommended by his administration has been severely undermined or dismissed by Trump himself.

Task force recommends shutdowns? Trump encourages people to violate shutdowns and attacks governors in states enacting shutdowns.
Task force recommends masks? Trump refuses to wear a mask and mocks those who do.
Task force recommends social distancing? Trump holds mass gatherings where social distancing isn't required or observed.
Task force says we should follow the science and listen to the experts? Trump smears the experts and pushes for miracle cures not supported by the science.
Task force says testing is key to getting the virus under control? Trump says we're testing too much and wants testing slowed down.

He's intentionally sabotaging every reasonable effort to get the virus under control and contradicting any effective policies being enacted.
And you think that's "solid overall"?
You want to give credit for one side but dismiss the other as merely "bad messaging." But it's not just bad messaging. It's a reckless and callous disregard for life.

[rocky_warrior]

Who could see a once in a lifetime pandemic hitting?  Prior to December of ‘19 are you suggesting anyone outside of China knew this thing was about to flip our worlds upside down?

Plenty of people have answered your Dec '19 question.  But you're missing the point.  You claim the White House knew a pandemic was coming by Feb 1.  That's why they "shut down" (hah) travel from China, and why Woodward revelations are "nothing"  But then on Mar 25 he said "Nobody could have ever seen something like this coming, but now we know". 

So when was he telling the truth?  Or is his mental acuity in question?

edit:
Also...Benny B saw it on Jan 27...
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=59849.msg1200173#msg1200173

[Pakuni]

Well of course Obama saw it coming.

[pacearrow02]

Well, the empirical data proves we're far from solid overall. That's not even worth debating.
But on the policies, the problem you seem to be ignoring, or not grasping, is that anything positive that's been done or recommended by his administration has been severely undermined or dismissed by Trump himself.

Task force recommends shutdowns? Trump encourages people to violate shutdowns and attacks governors in states enacting shutdowns.
Task force recommends masks? Trump refuses to wear a mask and mocks those who do.
Task force recommends social distancing? Trump holds mass gatherings where social distancing isn't required or observed.
Task force says we should follow the science and listen to the experts? Trump smears the experts and pushes for miracle cures not supported by the science.
Task force says testing is key to getting the virus under control? Trump says we're testing too much and wants testing slowed down.

He's intentionally sabotaging every reasonable effort to get the virus under control and contradicting any effective policies being enacted.
And you think that's "solid overall"?
You want to give credit for one side but dismiss the other as merely "bad messaging." But it's not just bad messaging. It's a reckless and callous disregard for life.

We’ll just have to agree to disagree and that’s ok.  My long term concern regarding the effects of the last 7 months is how we’ve let it divide us, not sure how or what it will take to ease the division but hopefully once this is all behind us we can get back to trying to understand both sides of an issue and while it’s unrealistic to think everyone will agree on anything I just hope the demonizing of the other side settles down a bit.

[GooooMarquette]

Who could see a once in a lifetime pandemic hitting?  Prior to December of ‘19 are you suggesting anyone outside of China knew this thing was about to flip our worlds upside down?

Ummm...epidemiologists have been warning about this for years. So pretty much everyone who believes in science.

[GooooMarquette]

Plenty of people have answered your Dec '19 question.  But you're missing the point.  You claim the White House knew a pandemic was coming by Feb 1.  That's why they "shut down" (hah) travel from China, and why Woodward revelations are "nothing"  But then on Mar 25 he said "Nobody could have ever seen something like this coming, but now we know". 

So when was he telling the truth?  Or is his mental acuity in question?

Yep. Either it was an outright lie, or he 'forgot' about being warned of one of the most serious biological threats in a century.

Neither is a very good answer for Trump.

[pacearrow02]

Ummm...epidemiologists have been warning about this for years. So pretty much everyone who believes in science.

You guys are something.  I dont think it takes an expert epidemiologist or an epidemiologist in general to predict that at some point in the future there will be an epidemic. 

I think you all know you’re being a little obtuse here with your replies.  To suggest anyone knew the scope, severity or timing other then at some point in the “future” was my point.

[rocky_warrior]

I'm gonna' apologize.  I fell for Pace's political bait today, and I should not have.  Lets get back to sharing info about covid-19.

[GooooMarquette]

I'm gonna' apologize.  I fell for Pace's political bait today, and I should not have.  Lets get back to sharing info about covid-19.

Same here. He keeps baiting the hook, and I have bitten a couple of times myself. It's just so tempting when you catch him in a contradiction or a misinterpretation of a paper, but it seems he has a 'yeah, but' for everything. I'll try too resist...

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

Don’t blame Pace.  He just suffers from viral brain fog.

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/09/health/coronavirus-brain.html

As an aside the breadth and speed of work/research that Dr Iwasaki And her group at Yale is doing related to Covid Is amazing.

[pacearrow02]

I don’t show up often but when i do I enjoy a good back and forth.

I too have gotten carried away the last 24 hrs and will be checking out until hoops season.  Hope everyone stays healthy and happy wherever you are!!

[rocky_warrior]

Let's see...who is not taking the pandemic seriously...

[GB Warrior]

A bit OT, but there needs to be a reckoning around this type of journalistic practice of withholding information for books. Woodward has certainly earned a certain amount of freedom in his career despite acting a bit above it all in the later stages of his career.

But he has legitimate culpability here, and his defenses today are frankly horsecrap.

There's a certain portion of the population that won't trust the media no matter what - this is a hell of a way to alienate the rest of it.

[pacearrow02]

A bit OT, but there needs to be a reckoning around this type of journalistic practice of withholding information for books. Woodward has certainly earned a certain amount of freedom in his career despite acting a bit above it all in the later stages of his career.

But he has legitimate culpability here, and his defenses today are frankly horsecrap.

There's a certain portion of the population that won't trust the media no matter what - this is a hell of a way to alienate the rest of it.

Sorry one last post.  I agree whole heartedly with this statement GB!!

Also like I mentioned earlier and said at the time that I would try and track down the video of Trump publicly saying numerous times in his press conferences what he told Woodward behind the scenes.  Everything has been said in public is consistent to what he said in these tapes so not sure where the story is with this.  Link below as promised:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JerryDunleavy/status/1303839132494462976

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

A bit OT, but there needs to be a reckoning around this type of journalistic practice of withholding information for books. Woodward has certainly earned a certain amount of freedom in his career despite acting a bit above it all in the later stages of his career.

But he has legitimate culpability here, and his defenses today are frankly horsecrap.

There's a certain portion of the population that won't trust the media no matter what - this is a hell of a way to alienate the rest of it.

Ian Bremmer called out the same thing today. 

[GB Warrior]

Sorry one last post.  I agree whole heartedly with this statement GB!!

Also like I mentioned earlier and said at the time that I would try and track down the video of Trump publicly saying numerous times in his press conferences what he told Woodward behind the scenes.  Everything has been said in public is consistent to what he said in these tapes so not sure where the story is with this.  Link below as promised:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JerryDunleavy/status/1303839132494462976

This isn't what I said, and it's only peripherally true if you ignore literally every other public statement he's made.

[rocky_warrior]

Sorry one last post.  I agree whole heartedly with this statement GB!!

Also like I mentioned earlier and said at the time that I would try and track down the video of Trump publicly saying numerous times in his press conferences what he told Woodward behind the scenes.  Everything has been said in public is consistent to what he said in these tapes so not sure where the story is with this.  Link below as promised:

https://mobile.twitter.com/JerryDunleavy/status/1303839132494462976

I didn't click your link, so maybe you don't click mine.  I don't completely disagree with you - I mean, he still has lied a bunch.  Telling people you have been lying doesn't really excuse that.  In my NPR link, from Apr 7:

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/21/837348551/timeline-what-trump-has-said-and-done-about-the-coronavirus

“The cases really didn’t build up for a while. But you have to understand, I’m a cheerleader for this country. I don’t want to create havoc and shock and everything else, but ultimately, when I was saying that, I’m also closing it down. I obviously was concerned about it because I closed down our country to China.”

— Trump, in a task force briefing, when asked about “downplaying the threat of coronavirus” early on

Ah crap, I've gone and done it again.  24 hour ban for myself.

[Jockey]

I didn't click your link, so maybe you don't click mine.  I don't completely disagree with you - I mean, he still has lied a bunch.  Telling people you have been lying doesn't really excuse that.  In my NPR link, from Apr 7:

https://www.npr.org/2020/04/21/837348551/timeline-what-trump-has-said-and-done-about-the-coronavirus

“The cases really didn’t build up for a while. But you have to understand, I’m a cheerleader for this country. I don’t want to create havoc and shock and everything else, but ultimately, when I was saying that, I’m also closing it down. I obviously was concerned about it because I closed down our country to China.”

— Trump, in a task force briefing, when asked about “downplaying the threat of coronavirus” early on

Ah crap, I've gone and done it again.  24 hour ban for myself.

Ignore button is your friend. 

[TSmith34, Inc.]

I'm gonna' apologize.  I fell for Pace's political bait today, and I should not have.  Lets get back to sharing info about covid-19.

Yup, trolly troll is successful in tying up 8 or 9 people with his intentional disinformation and bad faith arguing. Its one thing to have an honest back-and-forth with someone like Lenny vs. engaging with a chicosesque liar.