COVID-19 (f/k/a "the Coronavirus")

[The Sultan]

If this was such an earth shattering secret and if we would have only known this is how the president felt back in early February it would have saved 10s of thousands of lives then isn't Woodward just as at fault by holding onto these tapes for 7 months to only release them right before his book went on sale.

Did Woodward put American lives behind his own greed?  Another example of our broken media.

"The buck stops.....over there somewhere!!"

[rocky_warrior]

RE: China travel.  My criticism is that it's touted as a huge difference maker.  However, months later it hasn't mattered one bit because we as a country have failed to take enough steps to halt the spread, and leadership at the top has fueled that.

RE: Woodward.  Unfortunately this is just another blip in the world of Trump.  Completely expected.  Also agree, Woodward is happy this will make him some money and more notoriety. 

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

RE: China travel.  My criticism is that it's touted as a huge difference maker.  However, months later it hasn't mattered one bit because we as a country have failed to take enough steps to halt the spread, and leadership at the top has fueled that.

An earlier Euro travel ban would have been appropriate if the admin felt that this was truly a successful tactic to mitigating the pandemic.

[pacearrow02]

RE: China travel.  My criticism is that it's touted as a huge difference maker.  However, months later it hasn't mattered one bit because we as a country have failed to take enough steps to halt the spread, and leadership at the top has fueled that.

RE: Woodward.  Unfortunately this is just another blip in the world of Trump.  Completely expected.  Also agree, Woodward is happy this will make him some money and more notoriety.

I don't know if the China thing made a lick of difference or not.  Doesn't seem like much of anything makes a difference and that the virus will eventually hit a community before moving into the next.

In the moment though it was extremely newsworthy.  We had just signed a long negotiated trade deal and now travel is heavily restricted between the two countries for a virus that had yet to take an American live. 

My point is (China travel restrictions as the first major administration decision regarding Covid) there is evidence well before the Woodward interview they knew this could get real bad.

How someone of you can't agree with that simple timeline comes across as 100% partisan bickering.  Par for the course on scoop.

[rocky_warrior]

My point is (China travel restrictions as the first major administration decision regarding Covid) there is evidence well before the Woodward interview they knew this could get real bad.

That may be "evidence", but there are direct lies from Trump after that downplaying everything.  That's where the conflict is.  It has nothing to do with being partisan. 

[pacearrow02]

That may be "evidence", but there are direct lies from Trump after that downplaying everything.  That's where the conflict is.  It has nothing to do with being partisan.

That's fair, I'd hesitate to call them lies but a severe underestimation of the risk to the point of coming across as being naive to what was happening right in front of his nose.

But again I struggle with focusing too much on his words/messaging in those early days because the task force was doing so much for those early hit states to give them a chance at limiting death.

History will tell a clearer picture to how this pandemic was handled and what worked and also the mistakes that were made.  Almost impossible for any of us to give an honest evaluation when we have no idea what the virus will bring tomorrow.

IMO though these tapes are much to do of nothing other then to drum up some enthusiasm for another kiss and tell book. 

[Pakuni]

No toilet paper for a month might have been a sign of panic.  The panic was real in March very real

The president wisely played down a deadly virus - likely costing tens of thousands of lives, hundreds of thousands of jobs and billions of dollars - to ensure that we didn't run out of toilet paper.
That's leadership.

[Not all scoop users are created equal apparently]

That's fair, I'd hesitate to call them lies but a severe underestimation of the risk to the point of coming across as being naive to what was happening right in front of his nose.

But again I struggle with focusing too much on his words/messaging in those early days because the task force was doing so much for those early hit states to give them a chance at limiting death.

History will tell a clearer picture to how this pandemic was handled and what worked and also the mistakes that were made.  Almost impossible for any of us to give an honest evaluation when we have no idea what the virus will bring tomorrow.

IMO though these tapes are much to do of nothing other then to drum up some enthusiasm for another kiss and tell book.

It's confirmation of a lot of people's worst suspicions but its timing is incredibly cynical.

[The Lens]

His China Travel ban had many holes in it, 40,000 Chinese nationals came in afterwards.  Beyond that, a personal story, my sister in law entered in San Francisco from Hong Kong on Feb 4th with ZERO questioning.  Just rubber stamped in.  She found the ease of which she entered to be very disturbing in real time.   

[The Sultan]

Sturgis Motorcycle Rally generate d public health costs of $12.2 Billion.

250,000 cases are believed to be linked to the rally, roughly 19% of all national cases between Aug 2 and Sept 2.


https://www.iza.org/publications/dp/13670

I think this study needs to be analyzed a bit further.  I think it is making too many assumptions about how people have come down with the disease.  Did it come from a contact of a contact who got sick?  Or did they get it from another source?

[Pakuni]

That's fair, I'd hesitate to call them lies

To Bob Woodward on Feb. 7:
"It's more deadly than even your strenuous flu."

To the public on Feb. 26:
"Treat this like a flu... It's a little like the regular flu that we have flu shots for."

Not a lie?

[rocky_warrior]

To Bob Woodward on Feb. 7:
"It's more deadly than even your strenuous flu."

To the public on Feb. 26:
"Treat this like a flu... It's a little like the regular flu that we have flu shots for."

Not a lie?

This is fun. 
https://www.npr.org/2020/04/21/837348551/timeline-what-trump-has-said-and-done-about-the-coronavirus

I think March 10 is a good one: "This was unexpected. ... And it hit the world. And we're prepared, and we're doing a great job with it. And it will go away. Just stay calm. It will go away." — Trump, to reporters at the U.S. Capitol

[pacearrow02]

https://mobile.twitter.com/SeanLangille/status/1303763258139123715

From the American hero straight shooting Fauci himself.

Spoiler alert: he doesn't see the controversy here, yet some on this board are calling for instant removal from office.

[Spotcheck Billy]

His China Travel ban had many holes in it, 40,000 Chinese nationals came in afterwards.  Beyond that, a personal story, my sister in law entered in San Francisco from Hong Kong on Feb 4th with ZERO questioning.  Just rubber stamped in.  She found the ease of which she entered to be very disturbing in real time.   

That 40,000 number is a bit low. From https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/04/us/coronavirus-china-travel-restrictions.html
more than 430,000 arrived from China after the ban.

[Uncle Rico]

Imagine defending President Pandemic's response to this.  He's a hideous human being.  Always has been, always will be.  180,000 dead Americans are on his hands

[Pakuni]

Imagine defending President Pandemic's response to this then accusing everyone else of being partisan.  He's a hideous human being.  Always has been, always will be.  180,000 dead Americans are on his hands

An addendum.

[forgetful]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2908348-college-football-dl-jamain-stephens-dies-at-age-20-from-covid-19-complications?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

Might have been posted by others. But college football player dies from COVID-19.

[HansMoleman]

https://mobile.twitter.com/SeanLangille/status/1303763258139123715

From the American hero straight shooting Fauci himself.

Spoiler alert: he doesn't see the controversy here, yet some on this board are calling for instant removal from office.

Nothing to see here.  Move along.

[pacearrow02]

An addendum.

Try to keep up Pakuni.  I've acknowledged it hasn't been perfect but imo solid overall.  His messaging at times has been awful, his policies have been good and for the most in line with what Fauci and the rest of the task force was asking for.  Fauci, Cuomo, Newsome, Murphy, etc said the federal govt was there for them when they needed it.

So while I can admit his tweets and press conferences were not great, behind the scenes he was doing his level best to manage an impossible situation. 

Attacks like Trump has blood on his hands for the 180k dead are made by people who are not serious and overtly partisan.  Is there anything you think they did right the past 7 months?

[Uncle Rico]

Try to keep up Pakuni.  I've acknowledged it hasn't been perfect but imo solid overall.  His messaging at times has been awful, his policies have been good and for the most in line with what Fauci and the rest of the task force was asking for.  Fauci, Cuomo, Newsome, Murphy, etc said the federal govt was there for them when they needed it.

So while I can admit his tweets and press conferences were not great, behind the scenes he was doing his level best to manage an impossible situation. 

Attacks like Trump has blood on his hands for the 180k dead are made by people who are not serious and overtly partisan.  Is there anything you think they did right the past 7 months?

The Trump administration?  Absolutely not

[rocky_warrior]

some on this board are calling for instant removal from office.

some on this board would like to characterize lies as "severe underestimation of the risk". 

So, some people say...

[pacearrow02]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2908348-college-football-dl-jamain-stephens-dies-at-age-20-from-covid-19-complications?utm_source=cnn.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=editorial

Might have been posted by others. But college football player dies from COVID-19.

I'm sure you're busy, just checking in to see if you've had a chance to review that Sturgis study and any thoughts?

[pacearrow02]

some on this board would like to characterize lies as "severe underestimation of the risk". 

So, some people say...

Well honest people would say it would have been a flat out lie to say it posed no risk but by comparing it to the risk of influenza (which obviously has significant risks) would be an underestimation to the increased risk Covid brings.

See the difference?

[forgetful]

I'm sure you're busy, just checking in to see if you've had a chance to review that Sturgis study and any thoughts?

The study was largely a statistical analysis using various tracking technologies. There is no way to confirm or refute the analysis, in my opinion, those types of studies aren't science as they can't be falsified.

So I largely ignore them. Trying to quantify the number of cases related to Sturgis is nearly impossible, relies on too many assumptions, trying to extend that to a monetary aspect is even more limited in terms of meaning/accuracy. It is much simpler to state that holding Sturgis contributed to an increase in spread of COVID-19 and related mortality.

[rocky_warrior]

Well honest people would say it would have been a flat out lie to say it posed no risk but by comparing it to the risk of influenza (which obviously has significant risks) would be an underestimation to the increased risk Covid brings.

See the difference?

I'm glad we have an expert like you here.  Lie or severe underestimation of risk?

March 25: "Nobody would ever believe a thing like that's possible. Nobody could have ever seen something like this coming, but now we know, and we know it can happen and happen again."

— Trump at a task force briefing, claiming falsely that no one saw a pandemic like the coronavirus coming