Overall Impressions Heading into Big East Play?

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

IIRC, there were a few positive people around Scoop and a few who predicted a losing record but the general preseason consensus around here seemed to be that this team was likely NIT bound. Has the non-conference season raised those expectations? Lowered them? Pretty much the same?

For me, I think this team is slightly better than what I thought it would be. I'm pleased with the defensive identity. Lewis, Elliott, Cain, John, and McEwen are all better than I thought they would be. Garcia and Carton are off to the start I expected and both have shown promise that they will get better. I didn't expect a ton from Sy, Akanno, and Perez but I excepted more than we've been getting.

Going into the season, I expected to be 4-2 in the non-conference. A-PB was what I expected. I thought EIU would be closer and UWGB would be more of a blowout. I thought we would beat Oklahoma State and lose by about this much to UCLA but I also thought Madison would whoop us so it comes out to about a wash. I think losing to OK State and beating Madison was better for our resume. There were will be precious few marquis non-conference wins this season due to COVID and we have one of the shiniest ones of the year.

I think we finish in the top 5 of a weaker Big East. I also think we make the tournament and while I don't think we will ever be off the bubble, I also don't think we will be particularly nervous on selection Sunday. Maybe 8-10 seed range. I do think this team has the potential to reverse the two year trend of season ending collapses. I think the team is young and still bonding giving it more room for growth and my experience is that is easier for a team's offense to improve than a team's defense.

Finally, as a public service announcement. Things are going to get worse before they get better. Our first 4 games of Big East play feature 3 of the 5 toughest games we will play in the (hopefully) 20 game Big East season. @Creighton and Nova at home are in the top 3 and @Xavier is top 5 in my opinion. If we go 1-3 during this stretch, the season is not over, we are taking our lumps early. If we go 2-2 or better, I will feel very good about the rest of our season.

[Johnny B]

So far seem about exactly how most predicted. bubble team so far. Hope to see improvement.

[5DollarPitcher]

Another year on the bubble it seems. Better than I expected after we graduated like 80% of our production but still not good enough. Lucky for Wojo the Big East does seem to be weak this year so he should get an NCAAT appearance out of this season.

[Silent Verbal]

A little better than I thought.

Carton is a dude, but Garcia isn’t as ready as I thought he’d be.  Was expecting Henry-like production from him, and I don’t think we’ll get that.  Lewis will be a stud.

Big East is down this year and I think we’ll make the tournament.  I haven’t watched Creighton yet, but I’ve seen Seton Hall and Nova and they don’t look particularly impressive.  Think we’ll at least split with them.

[vogue65]

I'm all in.
My wife watches perhaps a few partial games a year and she said, they look very athletic. 
They are the best I have seen in 8 years and that says something. 
You new guys and gals should have seen how far Al took his team from 64/65 to 1976.  It was a very long trip.

[Johnny B]

member when some people said daws is better than hank   

[rocky_warrior]

member when some people said daws is better than hank   

Not one of those people.  But he still has potential to be.  Maybe not after this year, but in a couple years.  I wouldn't bet against him.

[Johnny B]

yeah man ppl were comparing him to frosh hank. he may be better in the long run

[WarriorFan]

Best athletes and probably the most talent in the Wojo era.  Better defense by far than any other Wojo team. 

But they still have the Wojo problems - anyone who has a good game has a stinker the next game.  Always lose the first tough road game.  No/few in game adjustments.  If this were pick-up ball, this team would be top 20.  With the coaching and the system... bubble. 

[Johnny B]

Who the hell is picking "way better". What did you think? bottom BE team?

[rocky_warrior]

If this were pick-up ball, this team would be top 20.  With the coaching and the system... bubble.

So, top #20 with no coach - as in these guys came together themselves.  But bubble with wojo.  You guys and the disconnect with reality cracks me up.

I'm really not sold on Wojo, but the hyperbole (hopefully) is too much.

[muwarrior69]

I guess the real question is will this team beat UCLA at home next year? I think we can; especially with a full house at the Fiserv.

I could only listen to the game and came in mid first half. My question is were the foul calls on Theo and Justin so early in the game just the refs calling a tight game because that took our bigs out of the game?

[brewcity77]

They're different than I thought they'd be, but the overall quality is where I expected. I thought the offense would be a little better, the defense a little worse, and results-wise had about the same expectations. Figured a 4-1 start & last night to be a coin toss, which it pretty much was. We played even for 32 minutes, they won the last 8.

1SE summed it up pretty well in his thread. Wojo is good enough to not get fired. I think we'll probably start 1-3 in Big East play, muddle to within a game of .500, and get in somewhere from the 8-11 lines. If we lose our first, it won't be unexpected, but it seems unlikely we'll be heading for a second weekend.

The one potential positive with this gauntlet start is that it may force Wojo to get the best out of his team late, which has been a problem recently.

[Uncle Rico]

Flashes of brilliance, moments of mundane.  Potential to overachieve, potential to underachieve at times.  The best thing about freshmen is, they become sophomores

[mileskishnish72]

Defense has improved, needs to be sustained. I think people are influenced by the W vs. Bucky.
We have to beat another decent team before I get psyched (don't think Wis. is anywhere as good as #4). We're starting to demonstrate a history of sustained second-half scoring droughts. I am optimistic that this band of newcomers can progress and come together. Not getting a good feeling about Monday, but we really, really need to win Thursday.

[tower912]

Defense has improved.  Counting on freshmen is always dicey.   I predicted team bubble watch.   And that Marquette would lose games late. 

[shoothoops]

My expectation every year is for MU to make the NCAA's. I expect MU to be an "Almost annual" NCAA team. Misses happen once every long while. This is my most basic requirement. This is either established right away, or after so many years.

And, as years go by without a win in the NCAA's, pressure increases to perhaps even get to the 2nd weekend some time instead of just one win. Pressure decreases with almost annual NCAA's and winning a game in it, here or there. Then, making the 2nd weekend is once every few years etc..

I'm not going to change the above expectations.

With that said, I expected Lewis to be good, and, he has been just that. Garcia has shown flashes of his talent and potential. In order to help MU be more successful, he needs to be more of an inside out player than outside in player this year than he has been. As long as he can keep getting to the FT line and draw fouls, he will do fine. Both players will do well.

MU has one point guard right now giving quality minutes. (Carton) He is good and talented. He is getting better and better. MU has one off guard or two guard. (McEwen) And, he has done fine as well overall. Getting quality minutes from others at these positions has been an issue. MU needs better guard play overall.

Watching UCLA, and one can't help but think where are the 6'5 switchable players on MU that can play the 2 or 3, or in a pinch the one?  Shooting the ball, handling the ball, passing the ball etc...I'd like to see better guard play.

Theo has better hands and touch this year, a nice improvement. (I see your FT's Theo.)

Greg is still the most aware player on the team, that unfortunately just can't move physically in a way needed. I still prefer to see him get minutes as he can shoot it and knows how to draw fouls.

MU spent a large part of the Oklahoma St. game not adjusting to their zone. MU didn't adjust well when defensive pressure was put on Carton later in the UCLA game. Would like to see better in game adjustments. Game plans have been fine. Would have liked to have won 2/3 or 3/3 of the 3 big games thus far instead of one, because all 3 were winnable. I thought we caught a few of them at a good time, as they will get better. (Ok. St. UCLA)

Sy is probably the thing that stands out the most to me. He is nowhere near where I expected him to be. I expected a big leap forward this year for him.

Cain has been effective in the catch and shoot off of the break corner three Sacar role. Hoping he can provide a little more consistent offense.

Hopefully MU can keep improving flow and rythm. Effort is there, as is defense and rebounding. Scoring the basketball and shooting the basketball hopefully will continue to improve.

If MU can slide in behind Villanova and Creighton in league play, that'd be great. Battling it out for the 3 or 4 spot etc...in league play is where I see them.

[TFlegend]

It's a Wojo team.  Some stretches of good, some stretches of bad.  Lewis has been a revelation, Garcia not as much.  Carton good, Akanno a disaster.  Koby has been better,  Symir is Wilson 2.0.  Cain/Elliot are the perfect Wojo players, equal parts good and bad.  Theo is Theo. 

[HutchwasClutch]

I voted team is a little better. Problem is same coach, same issues.  I see nothing different from him to provide any reason for real optimism this team will make any noise in conference or postseason.  I hope I’ll be wrong.

Lost in euphoria of Badger win is how easily that could have flipped to a loss and we’re sitting 3-3 without a quality win. We were 5 seconds and a really stupid attempt at drawing a charge by Trice to losing that one.  Carton was not going to get a decent shot off there given the time he started his move, how far out he still was, and being pushed by Trice away from the hoop.

That said I’m a firm believer you are what your record says and we found a way against UW. I just don’t see that happening much against quality opponents because of same guy in charge, with the same weaknesses that have led us nowhere in 6 plus seasons.

[IrwinFletcher]

Who the hell is picking "way better". What did you think? bottom BE team?

There were people who were predicting 8th-11th place for sure.  Not many, but there were some.

[mileskishnish72]

Would like to see better in game adjustments.

Hmmm.

[Goose]

I think they are actually a bit better than I expected them to be. The defense is vastly improved, better talent and more athletic players is a positive. Really the only negative I can say is that it seems every year they are a bit better than I expected them to be. The past several years I had lower expectations than most on here and they have always been a bit better than I expected them to be going into the season. One of these years I hope I am giddy going into the season and then surprised on the upside.

[The Big East]

We have demonstrated enough talent and depth to comfortably compete at the middle level of The Big East Conference. There are many teams in the league in a similar circumstance, so everyone's ultimate performance is going to be differentiated by the level of coaching and the extent of key player injuries.

I do like the spirit and cohesiveness of this years group of players.  Our coaching staff needs to build off of those  player attributes. 

[cschor]

This team is way better than expected.  Thankful we were able to play Oklahoma State and UCLA.  These teams appear to be on the rise and despite the losses we will be better from the experience.  Top five wins are hard to come by even if the badgers were over ranked.  The beauty of freshman is that they become sophomores.  As long as they can get coached up not to make stupid fouls and protect the basketball we will be in the dance.

[ATL MU Warrior]

Currently, the team is a little better than I thought although record matches expectations.

I think they have the potential to be significantly better as the year goes on...hope they can get there

[Dr. Blackheart]

42 in KPom. 53 in T Rank. Digging the defense (2nd in BE). The offense has a ways to go to find its identity (mid BE). The frosh are performing better than I expected at this point, but I'd like to see more consistent play from the upper class. We are right where I expected, however.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

They are a little better than I thought.  But the BE is a tough, tough league.  I can see the book getting out on this team, requiring adjustments.  History doesn't lead me to believe that happening is a strong possibility.

[MarquetteDano]

A little better overall than I thought.  As everyone mentioned the defense is much better than I thought.

Not only is the offense worse but the live ball turnovers are  killing us.  We play great half court defense and then the offense gives up a layup.

Wojo has to not just get more out of the offense scoring wise, but ensure it doesn't cost our defense.   My pessimism on Wojo says that those two deficiencies will only mildly improve this year.

Hope I am wrong.  If I am wrong this team could finish third in BE and win a game or two in tourney.   I fear I am right... then it is bubble city.

[mu_hilltopper]

So, top #20 with no coach - as in these guys came together themselves.  But bubble with wojo.  You guys and the disconnect with reality cracks me up.

I'm really not sold on Wojo, but the hyperbole (hopefully) is too much.

I interpreted the top 20 as .. if the entire league was pick-up games, no coaching, just guys out having fun, being athletic, MU would be a Top 20 team .. when you add coaching and offensive/defensive systems in, MU drops to bubble status.

I think that's 100% spot on.   

In the majors, most (not all) coaches can get their team to be more than the sum of their parts.   That element is missing from Wojo's history.

--
Defense is multiple points better than expected.
Offense was expected to be worse, and is.
Coaching is the same.

Net, net .. MU has been a middle-BE team based on elite 3 point shooting for ~5 years hugely due to an inability to get to the paint or get mid-range shots.  Subtract 3-point shooting and MU is going to struggle mightily.   Wojo has been trying to figure out how to have a better inside game for years .. it's not in his repertoire. 

We're going to see the same routine this year .. guys dribbling around as the shot clock slips away until someone not named Markus will chuck up a 3.  Good luck with that.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I have to give it to wojo...he’s really showing us a brand new way to achieve KenPom 30-40 this year. 

[Lennys Tap]

Team is about what I expected. Lewis (by a mile) and Koby (solidly) are upside surprises. Theo, Elliot and Cain are as expected. Symir has been a disappointment. DJ and Garcia have the talent I expected but I’m a little disappointed in DJ’s shot and Dawson’s strength. Oso, Perez and Dexter are, not surprisingly, non factors.

[zcg2013]

Team is a bit better than I expected, this early. Thought with a shortened offseason it would be tough to mesh (that can be evident at times) but the main thing is we have been competitive in all games. OK State had some real tough looks against the zone, but still had a lead and had some chances. Last night there was a lid at the end (somewhat convinced if Cain hits that 3 to make it a 2 point game, Wojo takes a timeout to get Lewis in). The defense has made things so watchable.

[mileskishnish72]

--  Wojo has been trying to figure out how to have a better inside game for years .. it's not in his repertoire. 

But, Topper, he coached the bigs at Duke! Duke, for God's sake!

[Uncle Rico]

Team is about what I expected. Lewis (by a mile) and Koby (solidly) are upside surprises. Theo, Elliot and Cain are as expected. Symir has been a disappointment. DJ and Garcia have the talent I expected but I’m a little disappointed in DJ’s shot and Dawson’s strength. Oso, Perez and Dexter are, not surprisingly, non factors.

In Big East play, I want to see what Symir is because he’s a key piece this year and even moreso next year.  The last thing he needed was an injury keeping him off the court. 

[BM1090]

Our record is what I expected but the on-court performance is a bit better than expected. Some of the issues that have plagued MU for years seem to be improving and that's a good sign. Turnovers are a concern. More fun to watch than last year, IMO.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Looks like most people are ranging from a little more optimistic to about what they expected. Excited to see what Big East play brings. Rough schedule to start, will hopefully help us grow and take advantage down the stretch.

[MU82]

Agree with TAMU that 2-2 would be a very good first 4 games. 3-1 would be spectacular.

1-3 wouldn't be all that surprising given the schedule -- and it wouldn't be season-crushing even though it would inspire 20 more Fire Wojo threads. 0-4 ... that might get ME to start a Fire Wojo thread!

Overall, a little better than I expected, but I expected us to be a pretty good team.

We Are Marquette!

[THRILLHO]

Record is about what I expected, but ceiling is higher than what I expected, mainly because Garcia is about what I expected but Lewis is even better than I expected. We have a lot of newcomers in a year with a shortened offseason, so given how much they are contributing so far, my expectation is that we have more room for improvement than other teams as the offense gets implemented and chemistry improves. I still am wary of a late-season collapse just because we're so dependent on Garcia and Lewis being good to raise this team's ceiling, and we've seen before that freshmen can wear out (and we've seen it from Wojo's teams in general).

[WarriorFan]

I interpreted the top 20 as .. if the entire league was pick-up games, no coaching, just guys out having fun, being athletic, MU would be a Top 20 team .. when you add coaching and offensive/defensive systems in, MU drops to bubble status.

I think that's 100% spot on.   

In the majors, most (not all) coaches can get their team to be more than the sum of their parts.   That element is missing from Wojo's history.

--
Defense is multiple points better than expected.
Offense was expected to be worse, and is.
Coaching is the same.

Net, net .. MU has been a middle-BE team based on elite 3 point shooting for ~5 years hugely due to an inability to get to the paint or get mid-range shots.  Subtract 3-point shooting and MU is going to struggle mightily.   Wojo has been trying to figure out how to have a better inside game for years .. it's not in his repertoire. 

We're going to see the same routine this year .. guys dribbling around as the shot clock slips away until someone not named Markus will chuck up a 3.  Good luck with that.

[WarriorFan]

That's exactly what I meant.  Some coaches can take talent and make it better with their coaching, their system, the way they build confidence, etc.  Wojo doesn't seem to do that.  So my comment was if EVERYTHING was pickup ball... we have a great team. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

That's exactly what I meant.  Some coaches can take talent and make it better with their coaching, their system, the way they build confidence, etc.  Wojo doesn't seem to do that.  So my comment was if EVERYTHING was pickup ball... we have a great team. 

I think you are exaggerating the talent Wojo has had.  How many Wojo recruits are on NBA rosters right now?  Two.  Henry and Markus.  I think the idea that he is wasting massive talent is unfounded.

His system is fine when it works, but when it doesn't he doesn't seem to have a change up.  That to me has been the number one problem from the beginning.  Changing tactics within games...between games...within seasons...it doesn't seem to happen.

Bo Ryan was a good enough coach to do that.  Wojo isn't.

[WarriorFan]

I think you are exaggerating the talent Wojo has had. 

I comment only about this year... because I think this is an incredibly talented roster. 

In previous years there were problems with midgets and egos and super-frosh who needed the ball a lot and a host of other things.  This is the first TEAM in the wojo era... and I'm doubtful he can make the whole greater than the sum of the parts.  In the past, with far less talent, the whole has always been less than the sum of the parts.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I comment only about this year... because I think this is an incredibly talented roster. 

In previous years there were problems with midgets and egos and super-frosh who needed the ball a lot and a host of other things.  This is the first TEAM in the wojo era... and I'm doubtful he can make the whole greater than the sum of the parts.  In the past, with far less talent, the whole has always been less than the sum of the parts.

Yeah I don't buy this is the first "team in the Wojo era" either.  I have no idea how you measure that or what you see in this team that you haven't seen in others.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that Wojo isn't more than a slightly above average coach.  But I hesitate to make global descriptions of this team based on five games.

[MU82]

I think you are exaggerating the talent Wojo has had.  How many Wojo recruits are on NBA rosters right now?  Two.  Henry and Markus.  I think the idea that he is wasting massive talent is unfounded.

His system is fine when it works, but when it doesn't he doesn't seem to have a change up.  That to me has been the number one problem from the beginning.  Changing tactics within games...between games...within seasons...it doesn't seem to happen.

Bo Ryan was a good enough coach to do that.  Wojo isn't.

Good analysis. Wojo has been a good to very good recruiter. Probably recruiting to Marquette about as well as any coach could. But, in Year 7, he has yet to prove he can take us to the next level by doing the kind of things you talk about here.

I comment only about this year... because I think this is an incredibly talented roster. 

In previous years there were problems with midgets and egos and super-frosh who needed the ball a lot and a host of other things.  This is the first TEAM in the wojo era... and I'm doubtful he can make the whole greater than the sum of the parts.  In the past, with far less talent, the whole has always been less than the sum of the parts.

This roster might be Wojo's most talented. "Incredibly talented" is an opinion, to which you are entitled, but I think it has yet to be proven. When I hear "incredibly talented" I think of recent Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, UNC and Gonzaga teams. Maybe we just have a difference in semantics.

Perhaps you will agree with me that the most talented parts of this roster are a soph transfer who played only 20 games last year, and two freshmen bigs. Unless one is talking about 5-stars, and even then only the best 5-stars, it takes newcomers time -- often a full season or more -- to adjust to the speed, size and talent level of P6 hoops. That can be doubly so for bigs. For example, Garcia obviously has talent, but he probably has gotten his shot blocked more in the first 6 games this season than he did in his last 2 years at Prior Lake.

If you think the inability to get even talented freshmen to play consistently well and to contribute significantly game after game is unique to Wojo or other "bad" coaches, you weren't watching Quinerly at Nova, Grimes at Kansas or dozens of other 5-stars from the last couple of seasons who didn't play up to their ratings.

We definitely do agree that Wojo has not coached well enough to get Marquette to the next level.

[Galway Eagle]

I comment only about this year... because I think this is an incredibly talented roster. 

In previous years there were problems with midgets and egos and super-frosh who needed the ball a lot and a host of other things.  This is the first TEAM in the wojo era... and I'm doubtful he can make the whole greater than the sum of the parts.  In the past, with far less talent, the whole has always been less than the sum of the parts.

Wait so 2017 when we had like 5 (?) guys averaging double figures that wasn't a "team" or the following year when we had three guys able to go off for 30 at any game that wasn't a "team" really the only year where there wasn't a team concept were last year and Wojo's first two. Arguably 2019 but Sam still hit 30 a few times and Joey in the teens a few.

[HutchwasClutch]

I comment only about this year... because I think this is an incredibly talented roster. 

Compared to last years team when Anim was our 2nd best player, it’s a significant talent upgrade.

But “incredibly talented”, uh, no.

[WarriorFan]

Compared to last years team when Anim was our 2nd best player, it’s a significant talent upgrade.

But “incredibly talented”, uh, no.

Can we hope I'm right?

As compared to recent years... this roster has more talent.

As for the 2017 comment:  When 2 midgets take 48.5% of your shots, that's not a good team, because if they're on the court enough to take 48.5% of the shots, they are also playing/struggling with  defense on the other end for the same amount of time.  btw there was only one other player in double figures that year.

[MU82]

Can we hope I'm right?

As compared to recent years... this roster has more talent.

As for the 2017 comment:  When 2 midgets take 48.5% of your shots, that's not a good team, because if they're on the court enough to take 48.5% of the shots, they are also playing/struggling with  defense on the other end for the same amount of time.  btw there was only one other player in double figures that year.

You must be thinking of a different year.

The 2016-17 team, which beat No. 1 Villanova and went on to earn Wojo his first NCAA tourney bid, had 5 scorers in double figures:

Markus 13.2 ... JJJ 12.0 ... Rowsey 11.6 ... Fischer 10.9 ... Reinhardt 10.8.

Additionally, Sam averaged 8.8 and Cheatham 8.7.

Those 7 players averaged between 6.3 and 9.3 FGA per game. Five of them (all but Fischer and Cheatham) shot 3s between .375 and .547.

That was an incredibly balanced offensive team that could really get hot.

With JJJ and Cheatham playing pretty big minutes, they did not have to play Markus and Rowsey at the same time very often.

Made the NCAAs as a 10 seed but had to play South Carolina in Greenville. We led most of the first half and were down by only 7 points with 6 minutes to go but finally wilted against a team that went on to reach the Final Four.

This year's team probably has more all-around talent and seems to be quite a bit better defensively. But right now, given what we know about the 2016-17 squad and what we don't know yet about this 2020-21 bunch, I will consider that Wojo's best "team."

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I also don't think you can judge the quality of a team by balanced scoring.  Oftentimes balanced scoring means you simply don't have an alpha player who can get points when you need them.  A team is more subtle than that.  Knowing roles, moving the ball, team defense, etc. is much more important than who puts the ball in the basket.

And I'm not saying Wojo has been great at that by any means, but I don't think this team is any better as a "team" than year's past.  We will see - maybe by March I will feel differently.

Finally, in the end its about how many games you win.  I don't care if you win by two players taking half the shots.  That's a hell of a lot better than losing with a balanced scoring team.

[bilsu]

I voted as good as I thought. However, I thought Garcia and Carton would be better, so the rest of the team is picking them up. Maybe they will go pro, but I do not see either being an NBA player.

[MU82]

I voted as good as I thought. However, I thought Garcia and Carton would be better, so the rest of the team is picking them up. Maybe they will go pro, but I do not see either being an NBA player.

Interesting. Carton is better than I thought he’d be and I’m very excited about how good he’ll be in2 months. Garcia is about as good as I thought he’d be - a little weaker in the post than I expected but better
on D than expected.