Overall Impressions Heading into Big East Play?

[Dr. Blackheart]

42 in KPom. 53 in T Rank. Digging the defense (2nd in BE). The offense has a ways to go to find its identity (mid BE). The frosh are performing better than I expected at this point, but I'd like to see more consistent play from the upper class. We are right where I expected, however.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

They are a little better than I thought.  But the BE is a tough, tough league.  I can see the book getting out on this team, requiring adjustments.  History doesn't lead me to believe that happening is a strong possibility.

[MarquetteDano]

A little better overall than I thought.  As everyone mentioned the defense is much better than I thought.

Not only is the offense worse but the live ball turnovers are  killing us.  We play great half court defense and then the offense gives up a layup.

Wojo has to not just get more out of the offense scoring wise, but ensure it doesn't cost our defense.   My pessimism on Wojo says that those two deficiencies will only mildly improve this year.

Hope I am wrong.  If I am wrong this team could finish third in BE and win a game or two in tourney.   I fear I am right... then it is bubble city.

[mu_hilltopper]

So, top #20 with no coach - as in these guys came together themselves.  But bubble with wojo.  You guys and the disconnect with reality cracks me up.

I'm really not sold on Wojo, but the hyperbole (hopefully) is too much.

I interpreted the top 20 as .. if the entire league was pick-up games, no coaching, just guys out having fun, being athletic, MU would be a Top 20 team .. when you add coaching and offensive/defensive systems in, MU drops to bubble status.

I think that's 100% spot on.   

In the majors, most (not all) coaches can get their team to be more than the sum of their parts.   That element is missing from Wojo's history.

--
Defense is multiple points better than expected.
Offense was expected to be worse, and is.
Coaching is the same.

Net, net .. MU has been a middle-BE team based on elite 3 point shooting for ~5 years hugely due to an inability to get to the paint or get mid-range shots.  Subtract 3-point shooting and MU is going to struggle mightily.   Wojo has been trying to figure out how to have a better inside game for years .. it's not in his repertoire. 

We're going to see the same routine this year .. guys dribbling around as the shot clock slips away until someone not named Markus will chuck up a 3.  Good luck with that.

[Frenns Liquor Depot]

I have to give it to wojo...he’s really showing us a brand new way to achieve KenPom 30-40 this year. 

[Lennys Tap]

Team is about what I expected. Lewis (by a mile) and Koby (solidly) are upside surprises. Theo, Elliot and Cain are as expected. Symir has been a disappointment. DJ and Garcia have the talent I expected but I’m a little disappointed in DJ’s shot and Dawson’s strength. Oso, Perez and Dexter are, not surprisingly, non factors.

[zcg2013]

Team is a bit better than I expected, this early. Thought with a shortened offseason it would be tough to mesh (that can be evident at times) but the main thing is we have been competitive in all games. OK State had some real tough looks against the zone, but still had a lead and had some chances. Last night there was a lid at the end (somewhat convinced if Cain hits that 3 to make it a 2 point game, Wojo takes a timeout to get Lewis in). The defense has made things so watchable.

[mileskishnish72]

--  Wojo has been trying to figure out how to have a better inside game for years .. it's not in his repertoire. 

But, Topper, he coached the bigs at Duke! Duke, for God's sake!

[Uncle Rico]

Team is about what I expected. Lewis (by a mile) and Koby (solidly) are upside surprises. Theo, Elliot and Cain are as expected. Symir has been a disappointment. DJ and Garcia have the talent I expected but I’m a little disappointed in DJ’s shot and Dawson’s strength. Oso, Perez and Dexter are, not surprisingly, non factors.

In Big East play, I want to see what Symir is because he’s a key piece this year and even moreso next year.  The last thing he needed was an injury keeping him off the court. 

[BM1090]

Our record is what I expected but the on-court performance is a bit better than expected. Some of the issues that have plagued MU for years seem to be improving and that's a good sign. Turnovers are a concern. More fun to watch than last year, IMO.

[TAMU, Knower of Ball]

Looks like most people are ranging from a little more optimistic to about what they expected. Excited to see what Big East play brings. Rough schedule to start, will hopefully help us grow and take advantage down the stretch.

[MU82]

Agree with TAMU that 2-2 would be a very good first 4 games. 3-1 would be spectacular.

1-3 wouldn't be all that surprising given the schedule -- and it wouldn't be season-crushing even though it would inspire 20 more Fire Wojo threads. 0-4 ... that might get ME to start a Fire Wojo thread!

Overall, a little better than I expected, but I expected us to be a pretty good team.

We Are Marquette!

[THRILLHO]

Record is about what I expected, but ceiling is higher than what I expected, mainly because Garcia is about what I expected but Lewis is even better than I expected. We have a lot of newcomers in a year with a shortened offseason, so given how much they are contributing so far, my expectation is that we have more room for improvement than other teams as the offense gets implemented and chemistry improves. I still am wary of a late-season collapse just because we're so dependent on Garcia and Lewis being good to raise this team's ceiling, and we've seen before that freshmen can wear out (and we've seen it from Wojo's teams in general).

[WarriorFan]

I interpreted the top 20 as .. if the entire league was pick-up games, no coaching, just guys out having fun, being athletic, MU would be a Top 20 team .. when you add coaching and offensive/defensive systems in, MU drops to bubble status.

I think that's 100% spot on.   

In the majors, most (not all) coaches can get their team to be more than the sum of their parts.   That element is missing from Wojo's history.

--
Defense is multiple points better than expected.
Offense was expected to be worse, and is.
Coaching is the same.

Net, net .. MU has been a middle-BE team based on elite 3 point shooting for ~5 years hugely due to an inability to get to the paint or get mid-range shots.  Subtract 3-point shooting and MU is going to struggle mightily.   Wojo has been trying to figure out how to have a better inside game for years .. it's not in his repertoire. 

We're going to see the same routine this year .. guys dribbling around as the shot clock slips away until someone not named Markus will chuck up a 3.  Good luck with that.

[WarriorFan]

That's exactly what I meant.  Some coaches can take talent and make it better with their coaching, their system, the way they build confidence, etc.  Wojo doesn't seem to do that.  So my comment was if EVERYTHING was pickup ball... we have a great team. 

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

That's exactly what I meant.  Some coaches can take talent and make it better with their coaching, their system, the way they build confidence, etc.  Wojo doesn't seem to do that.  So my comment was if EVERYTHING was pickup ball... we have a great team. 

I think you are exaggerating the talent Wojo has had.  How many Wojo recruits are on NBA rosters right now?  Two.  Henry and Markus.  I think the idea that he is wasting massive talent is unfounded.

His system is fine when it works, but when it doesn't he doesn't seem to have a change up.  That to me has been the number one problem from the beginning.  Changing tactics within games...between games...within seasons...it doesn't seem to happen.

Bo Ryan was a good enough coach to do that.  Wojo isn't.

[WarriorFan]

I think you are exaggerating the talent Wojo has had. 

I comment only about this year... because I think this is an incredibly talented roster. 

In previous years there were problems with midgets and egos and super-frosh who needed the ball a lot and a host of other things.  This is the first TEAM in the wojo era... and I'm doubtful he can make the whole greater than the sum of the parts.  In the past, with far less talent, the whole has always been less than the sum of the parts.

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I comment only about this year... because I think this is an incredibly talented roster. 

In previous years there were problems with midgets and egos and super-frosh who needed the ball a lot and a host of other things.  This is the first TEAM in the wojo era... and I'm doubtful he can make the whole greater than the sum of the parts.  In the past, with far less talent, the whole has always been less than the sum of the parts.

Yeah I don't buy this is the first "team in the Wojo era" either.  I have no idea how you measure that or what you see in this team that you haven't seen in others.

There is plenty of evidence to suggest that Wojo isn't more than a slightly above average coach.  But I hesitate to make global descriptions of this team based on five games.

[MU82]

I think you are exaggerating the talent Wojo has had.  How many Wojo recruits are on NBA rosters right now?  Two.  Henry and Markus.  I think the idea that he is wasting massive talent is unfounded.

His system is fine when it works, but when it doesn't he doesn't seem to have a change up.  That to me has been the number one problem from the beginning.  Changing tactics within games...between games...within seasons...it doesn't seem to happen.

Bo Ryan was a good enough coach to do that.  Wojo isn't.

Good analysis. Wojo has been a good to very good recruiter. Probably recruiting to Marquette about as well as any coach could. But, in Year 7, he has yet to prove he can take us to the next level by doing the kind of things you talk about here.

I comment only about this year... because I think this is an incredibly talented roster. 

In previous years there were problems with midgets and egos and super-frosh who needed the ball a lot and a host of other things.  This is the first TEAM in the wojo era... and I'm doubtful he can make the whole greater than the sum of the parts.  In the past, with far less talent, the whole has always been less than the sum of the parts.

This roster might be Wojo's most talented. "Incredibly talented" is an opinion, to which you are entitled, but I think it has yet to be proven. When I hear "incredibly talented" I think of recent Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, UNC and Gonzaga teams. Maybe we just have a difference in semantics.

Perhaps you will agree with me that the most talented parts of this roster are a soph transfer who played only 20 games last year, and two freshmen bigs. Unless one is talking about 5-stars, and even then only the best 5-stars, it takes newcomers time -- often a full season or more -- to adjust to the speed, size and talent level of P6 hoops. That can be doubly so for bigs. For example, Garcia obviously has talent, but he probably has gotten his shot blocked more in the first 6 games this season than he did in his last 2 years at Prior Lake.

If you think the inability to get even talented freshmen to play consistently well and to contribute significantly game after game is unique to Wojo or other "bad" coaches, you weren't watching Quinerly at Nova, Grimes at Kansas or dozens of other 5-stars from the last couple of seasons who didn't play up to their ratings.

We definitely do agree that Wojo has not coached well enough to get Marquette to the next level.

[Galway Eagle]

I comment only about this year... because I think this is an incredibly talented roster. 

In previous years there were problems with midgets and egos and super-frosh who needed the ball a lot and a host of other things.  This is the first TEAM in the wojo era... and I'm doubtful he can make the whole greater than the sum of the parts.  In the past, with far less talent, the whole has always been less than the sum of the parts.

Wait so 2017 when we had like 5 (?) guys averaging double figures that wasn't a "team" or the following year when we had three guys able to go off for 30 at any game that wasn't a "team" really the only year where there wasn't a team concept were last year and Wojo's first two. Arguably 2019 but Sam still hit 30 a few times and Joey in the teens a few.

[HutchwasClutch]

I comment only about this year... because I think this is an incredibly talented roster. 

Compared to last years team when Anim was our 2nd best player, it’s a significant talent upgrade.

But “incredibly talented”, uh, no.

[WarriorFan]

Compared to last years team when Anim was our 2nd best player, it’s a significant talent upgrade.

But “incredibly talented”, uh, no.

Can we hope I'm right?

As compared to recent years... this roster has more talent.

As for the 2017 comment:  When 2 midgets take 48.5% of your shots, that's not a good team, because if they're on the court enough to take 48.5% of the shots, they are also playing/struggling with  defense on the other end for the same amount of time.  btw there was only one other player in double figures that year.

[MU82]

Can we hope I'm right?

As compared to recent years... this roster has more talent.

As for the 2017 comment:  When 2 midgets take 48.5% of your shots, that's not a good team, because if they're on the court enough to take 48.5% of the shots, they are also playing/struggling with  defense on the other end for the same amount of time.  btw there was only one other player in double figures that year.

You must be thinking of a different year.

The 2016-17 team, which beat No. 1 Villanova and went on to earn Wojo his first NCAA tourney bid, had 5 scorers in double figures:

Markus 13.2 ... JJJ 12.0 ... Rowsey 11.6 ... Fischer 10.9 ... Reinhardt 10.8.

Additionally, Sam averaged 8.8 and Cheatham 8.7.

Those 7 players averaged between 6.3 and 9.3 FGA per game. Five of them (all but Fischer and Cheatham) shot 3s between .375 and .547.

That was an incredibly balanced offensive team that could really get hot.

With JJJ and Cheatham playing pretty big minutes, they did not have to play Markus and Rowsey at the same time very often.

Made the NCAAs as a 10 seed but had to play South Carolina in Greenville. We led most of the first half and were down by only 7 points with 6 minutes to go but finally wilted against a team that went on to reach the Final Four.

This year's team probably has more all-around talent and seems to be quite a bit better defensively. But right now, given what we know about the 2016-17 squad and what we don't know yet about this 2020-21 bunch, I will consider that Wojo's best "team."

[The Hippie Satan of Hyperbole]

I also don't think you can judge the quality of a team by balanced scoring.  Oftentimes balanced scoring means you simply don't have an alpha player who can get points when you need them.  A team is more subtle than that.  Knowing roles, moving the ball, team defense, etc. is much more important than who puts the ball in the basket.

And I'm not saying Wojo has been great at that by any means, but I don't think this team is any better as a "team" than year's past.  We will see - maybe by March I will feel differently.

Finally, in the end its about how many games you win.  I don't care if you win by two players taking half the shots.  That's a hell of a lot better than losing with a balanced scoring team.

[bilsu]

I voted as good as I thought. However, I thought Garcia and Carton would be better, so the rest of the team is picking them up. Maybe they will go pro, but I do not see either being an NBA player.