Crean 2011 in-state recruits

[MattyWarrior]

Crean was alright, did alot for the program,more for himself. Never got the feeling he was totally here 100%. I'll take humble Buzz anyday.Crean showed his true caracter the way he slinked out of town.He had nice hair..

[MUSF]

There is a lot of truth to what you are saying.  But I am genuinely interested in how he does.  The thing is, I'm not really sure how to say this any other way, but most of the news coming out of Bloomington is negative.  So it is natural for some of these responses.  I mean, we had heard "wait until 2011 and 2012" and Crean will get some local talent.  He still may, but it is interesting that he is an underdog on a lot of these instate guys.  Might say more about the program than Crean.  

But if there is some genuine facts reported about Crean, and those facts are not positive, then people get accused of Crean bashing.  As long as the focus stays on basketball, I think these are good threads, but they get derailed for the reasons you pointed out MUSF.

I agree that this is a good topic.

So, let me contribute to the actual topic and not just the derailing.

I am starting to think that Crean is not as good of a coach as I thought he was.  He is in a very difficult position over there in Bloomington and I think he deserves some more time, but it is looking more and more like he may not have the chops for that job.

I still think Crean is probably an above average to good college bball coach but I am starting to doubt that he could ever be a great coach.  I think we probably saw his ceiling with the three amigo teams at MU.  Which is still pretty darn good but it appears that he caught lightning in a bottle with the Final Four run.

I really appreciate what Crean did for MU and I will always be grateful that he helped bring MU back to national prominence.  That said, I am now glad that he and we have moved on.

[HoopsMalone]

I think the instate recruits are important to Indiana alums.  It pains them to see the Greg Oden's of the world head out of the state.  I can't imagine anyone is happy that Marquis Teague, a top point guard out of Indianapolis, is going to play for John Calipari. 

Crean needs a late comeback on the 2011 recruits and then the 2012 recruits would be his last stand with the fanbase, even if the IU administration keeps patience. 

[Avenue Commons]

Zeller is suppose to be a unc lock as well.

Is that Luke Zeller's brother?

[Marquette84]

I agree that this is a good topic.

So, let me contribute to the actual topic and not just the derailing.

I am starting to think that Crean is not as good of a coach as I thought he was.  He is in a very difficult position over there in Bloomington and I think he deserves some more time, but it is looking more and more like he may not have the chops for that job.

I think its probably far too early to say.

Its really hard to think of a similar rebuilding situation--IU had sunk about as far as a team could.  Depleted roster, scandal, possible NCAA penalties, etc.

Compare to Jay Wright when he came on board at Villanova.  VU was 18-13 under Steve Lappas the year before, but it STILL took Wright 4 years to get back to the NCAA tournament.  He signed a great first class--but got VU hit with sanctions for recruiting violations.  If Crean cut corners like Wright, it could get IU hit with the death penalty.

If we compare to the rebuilding job O'Neill had to do after Dukiet, O'Neill was only 11-18 his second year--and that was playing against far easier competition.  It took O'Neill 4 years to get back to the NCAA--five to the Sweet 16.

[NersEllenson]

I think its probably far too early to say.

Its really hard to think of a similar rebuilding situation--IU had sunk about as far as a team could.  Depleted roster, scandal, possible NCAA penalties, etc.

Compare to Jay Wright when he came on board at Villanova.  VU was 18-13 under Steve Lappas the year before, but it STILL took Wright 4 years to get back to the NCAA tournament.  He signed a great first class--but got VU hit with sanctions for recruiting violations.  If Crean cut corners like Wright, it could get IU hit with the death penalty.

If we compare to the rebuilding job O'Neill had to do after Dukiet, O'Neill was only 11-18 his second year--and that was playing against far easier competition.  It took O'Neill 4 years to get back to the NCAA--five to the Sweet 16.

Super Crean Defender to the rescue!! 

[ErickJD08]

I think its probably far too early to say.

Its really hard to think of a similar rebuilding situation--IU had sunk about as far as a team could.  Depleted roster, scandal, possible NCAA penalties, etc.

Compare to Jay Wright when he came on board at Villanova.  VU was 18-13 under Steve Lappas the year before, but it STILL took Wright 4 years to get back to the NCAA tournament.  He signed a great first class--but got VU hit with sanctions for recruiting violations.  If Crean cut corners like Wright, it could get IU hit with the death penalty.

If we compare to the rebuilding job O'Neill had to do after Dukiet, O'Neill was only 11-18 his second year--and that was playing against far easier competition.  It took O'Neill 4 years to get back to the NCAA--five to the Sweet 16.

Well, if recruiting is any indication to what the future holds, it doesn't look good for IU.  And why are walk-ons starting in Crean's second year?  Crean might turn things around but as mentioned before, the competition is getting tougher on the recruiting trail and in the conference.  Based on the fact that his team at IU is beginning to look like his MU teams (short, guard heavy, and one good class every four years) and his competition is recruiting better than IU, I would not be feeling confident if I were an IU fan. 

[Marquette84]

Super Crean Defender to the rescue!! 

See what I mean?  Every post of yours reflects your Buzz Fanboi/Crean Hater attitude.

Why don't you try responding with something intelligent, thoughtful or relevant, for a change. 

I like a good exchange of ideas.  You might even enjoy it as well if you dropped the paranoid pretense that "everyone is out go get Buzz".

Try this, for example:

Well, if recruiting is any indication to what the future holds, it doesn't look good for IU.  And why are walk-ons starting in Crean's second year?  Crean might turn things around but as mentioned before, the competition is getting tougher on the recruiting trail and in the conference.  Based on the fact that his team at IU is beginning to look like his MU teams (short, guard heavy, and one good class every four years) and his competition is recruiting better than IU, I would not be feeling confident if I were an IU fan. 

That may be true--but if one looks through history, there aren't many examples of coaches who have brought teams back from the depths to which IU sunk. 

No, it doesn't look good for IU right now.  It didn't look good under Mike Davis.  It looked even worse under Sampson.  To have expected a turnaround within two years is not a reasonable expectation.

As far as competition getting tougher, I really don't think that's true.  Indiana has always been known as a hotbed of talent--and its been very hotly contested since the day Knight left.  Of the 35 top 100 RSCI players from Indiana the decade before Crean, IU landed just five.  So I think the recruiting fields were pretty competitive before Crean got there.

2008:
18 Zellar North Carolina
54 Garcia Memphis

2007:
3 Gordon - Indiana
23 Moore - Purdue
41 Martin - Purdue
47Johnson - Purdue
58 Teague - Wake Forest
62 Hummel - Purdue


2006:
#1 Oden - Ohio State
#21  Conley - Ohio State
#66 Tucker - Virginia
#78 Johnson - Tennesse
#83 Harangody - Notre Dame

2005:
#1 McRoberts - Duke
#34 Zellar - Notre Dame
#40 James - Marquette

2004:
30 Vaden:  - Indiana
76 Ratliff - Indiana
93 Hardy - Indiana

2003
72: Harris - Valpo
92: Mayes: Ohio State

2002:
9 - May - UNC
91 Kiefer - Purdue
95 Finn - Xavier

2001
34 - Thomas - Notre Dame
85 - Danelius - Wake Forest

2000:
1 Randolph - MSU
9 Jeffries - Indiana
51 Buscher - Purdue

1999:
18 Gardner - Arizona
75 Wright - Villanova
82 Baker - San Jose State
87 Stewart - Kentucky (died before playing)

1998
64 Smith - Villanova
81 Duany - Syracuse

[HoopsMalone]

No, it doesn't look good for IU right now.  It didn't look good under Mike Davis.  It looked even worse under Sampson.  To have expected a turnaround within two years is not a reasonable expectation.

As far as competition getting tougher, I really don't think that's true.  Indiana has always been known as a hotbed of talent--and its been very hotly contested since the day Knight left.  Of the 35 top 100 RSCI players from Indiana the decade before Crean, IU landed just five.  So I think the recruiting fields were pretty competitive before Crean got there.

2008:
18 Zellar North Carolina
54 Garcia Memphis

2007:
3 Gordon - Indiana
23 Moore - Purdue
41 Martin - Purdue
47Johnson - Purdue
58 Teague - Wake Forest
62 Hummel - Purdue


2006:
#1 Oden - Ohio State
#21  Conley - Ohio State
#66 Tucker - Virginia
#78 Johnson - Tennesse
#83 Harangody - Notre Dame

2005:
#1 McRoberts - Duke
#34 Zellar - Notre Dame
#40 James - Marquette

2004:
30 Vaden:  - Indiana
76 Ratliff - Indiana
93 Hardy - Indiana

2003
72: Harris - Valpo
92: Mayes: Ohio State

2002:
9 - May - UNC
91 Kiefer - Purdue
95 Finn - Xavier

2001
34 - Thomas - Notre Dame
85 - Danelius - Wake Forest

2000:
1 Randolph - MSU
9 Jeffries - Indiana
51 Buscher - Purdue

1999:
18 Gardner - Arizona
75 Wright - Villanova
82 Baker - San Jose State
87 Stewart - Kentucky (died before playing)

1998
64 Smith - Villanova
81 Duany - Syracuse

Good point on the recruits in Indiana.  Thanks for putting that together.  It was nice to see Marquette get one in D James.

[Lennys Tap]

See what I mean?  Every post of yours reflects your Buzz Fanboi/Crean Hater attitude.

Why don't you try responding with something intelligent, thoughtful or relevant, for a change.  

I like a good exchange of ideas.  You might even enjoy it as well if you dropped the paranoid pretense that "everyone is out go get Buzz".

Try this, for example:
That may be true--but if one looks through history, there aren't many examples of coaches who have brought teams back from the depths to which IU sunk.  

No, it doesn't look good for IU right now.  It didn't look good under Mike Davis.  It looked even worse under Sampson.  To have expected a turnaround within two years is not a reasonable expectation.

As far as competition getting tougher, I really don't think that's true.  Indiana has always been known as a hotbed of talent--and its been very hotly contested since the day Knight left.  Of the 35 top 100 RSCI players from Indiana the decade before Crean, IU landed just five.  So I think the recruiting fields were pretty competitive before Crean got there.

2008:
18 Zellar North Carolina
54 Garcia Memphis

2007:
3 Gordon - Indiana
23 Moore - Purdue
41 Martin - Purdue
47Johnson - Purdue
58 Teague - Wake Forest
62 Hummel - Purdue


2006:
#1 Oden - Ohio State
#21  Conley - Ohio State
#66 Tucker - Virginia
#78 Johnson - Tennesse
#83 Harangody - Notre Dame

2005:
#1 McRoberts - Duke
#34 Zellar - Notre Dame
#40 James - Marquette

2004:
30 Vaden:  - Indiana
76 Ratliff - Indiana
93 Hardy - Indiana

2003
72: Harris - Valpo
92: Mayes: Ohio State

2002:
9 - May - UNC
91 Kiefer - Purdue
95 Finn - Xavier

2001
34 - Thomas - Notre Dame
85 - Danelius - Wake Forest

2000:
1 Randolph - MSU
9 Jeffries - Indiana
51 Buscher - Purdue

1999:
18 Gardner - Arizona
75 Wright - Villanova
82 Baker - San Jose State
87 Stewart - Kentucky (died before playing)

1998
64 Smith - Villanova
81 Duany - Syracuse

Knight was still there in 98 and 99 so it's actually 5 out of 29. Davis, pretty much considered a colossal failure at IU, was either 1 for 5 or 0 for 4 on top 10 in state prospects depending on whether he or Knight recruited Jeffries. Sampson was 1 for 1 (Gordon) and had IU in the top 10 (maybe the top 5) when all hell broke loose (22-4, 11-2 in conference when fired - and I think they lost maybe 2 of their last 3 as the controversy swirled).
So far Crean's recruiting results  resemble those of Davis more than Sampson.  Something tells me bringing IU back to the Mike Davis era won't be considered a success by the Indiana faithful.

[Marquette84]

Knight was still there in 98 and 99 so it's actually 5 out of 29. Davis, pretty much considered a colossal failure at IU, was either 1 for 5 or 0 for 4 on top 10 in state prospects depending on whether he or Knight recruited Jeffries. Sampson was 1 for 1 (Gordon) and had IU in the top 10 (maybe the top 5) when all hell broke loose (22-4, 11-2 in conference when fired - and I think they lost maybe 2 of their last 3 as the controversy swirled).
So far Crean's recruiting results  resemble those of Davis more than Sampson.  Something tells me bringing IU back to the Mike Davis era won't be considered a success by the Indiana faithful.

No, but I think they realize that on the day they brought in Crean, even retuning to the Davis level of success would be a huge challenge.

I think we'd agree that the IU faithful would like to be at the level they were under Sampson--however they need to get there without resorting to Sampson's tactics. 

[ATL MU Warrior]

No, but I think they realize that on the day they brought in Crean, even retuning to the Davis level of success would be a huge challenge.

I think we'd agree that the IU faithful would like to be at the level they were under Sampson--however they need to get there without resorting to Sampson's tactics. 

they'll also need a new coach 

[Lennys Tap]

No, but I think they realize that on the day they brought in Crean, even retuning to the Davis level of success would be a huge challenge.

I think we'd agree that the IU faithful would like to be at the level they were under Sampson--however they need to get there without resorting to Sampson's tactics. 

I think IU returns to the Davis "level of success" regardless of who their coach is. It's basically a baseline for a program like theirs. The Sampson level will be a challenge, though.

[MedicineHatSpanker]

I think its probably far too early to say.

Once again Joanie lays out the case in blind support of her man. What insight! We must all be so wrong about Tommy!