UW-Shorewood East to build an on-campus arena

[ChicosBailBonds]

To open in a few years, 6K to 8K.


http://www.uwmpost.com/2010/02/15/panthers-could-play-on-campus-by-2013/

[M@RQUETTEW@RRIORS]

How full is the crotch-ski when they play?

[Skatastrophy]

"Also, if done correctly, the men’s basketball program could become a huge revenue producer and the face of the university like such schools as Gonzaga, UCLA, Xavier, and Michigan State. The term “mid-major” could become obsolete when referring to the Milwaukee Athletics program."

I find this funny.  I really hope they're right because I'd like for UW@Milwaukee to eclipse UW@Madison, but unless this stadium gets them out of the Horizon League they'll be stuck with the Mid Major label.

[bma725]

How full is the crotch-ski when they play?

They moved to the MECCA full time a few years ago....so I'm guessing the Klostche Center is pretty empty when they're playing.

[GGGG]

"Also, if done correctly, the men’s basketball program could become a huge revenue producer and the face of the university like such schools as Gonzaga, UCLA, Xavier, and Michigan State. The term “mid-major” could become obsolete when referring to the Milwaukee Athletics program."

Pet peeve time...  This is a typical example of why student journalism is a problem - I see this working on a college campus all of the time.  That statement above is full of opinion.  I mean, it would be a great quote for the author to attribute to someone like the athletic director or the head of the student government, but that shouldn't be part of the author's story.  (This isn't a commentary piece either.)

Some more examples:  

"Most likely the arena would seat 6,000-8,000 fans and come with amenities that would draw a nice chunk of the university’s 100,000 plus alumni to the campus..."  (How does the author know they "would?"  You could say "that officials believe would..."  That's reporting.  He's inserting his opinion.  And what's up with the phrase "chunk?")

"The arena is moving forward pending a show of support from students. It is expected that the vote will pass with flying colors, as a move on campus would cut the astronomical cost of leasing the U.S. Cellular Arena for men’s basketball and commencement."  (Again, full of opinion.  "Astronomical" relative to what?  And the phrase "flying colors?")

I think Jimmy needs a little work on his reporting skills.

[GGGG]

I find this funny.  I really hope they're right because I'd like for UW@Milwaukee to eclipse UW@Madison, but unless this stadium gets them out of the Horizon League they'll be stuck with the Mid Major label.

Well, that will never happen.  But why would you want UWM to eclipse Madison?  I like that both Madison and MU are good at the same time.  It makes the rivalry better.

[martyconlonontherun]

Pet peeve time...  This is a typical example of why student journalism is a problem - I see this working on a college campus all of the time.  That statement above is full of opinion.  I mean, it would be a great quote for the author to attribute to someone like the athletic director or the head of the student government, but that shouldn't be part of the author's story.  (This isn't a commentary piece either.)

Some more examples:  

"Most likely the arena would seat 6,000-8,000 fans and come with amenities that would draw a nice chunk of the university’s 100,000 plus alumni to the campus..."  (How does the author know they "would?"  You could say "that officials believe would..."  That's reporting.  He's inserting his opinion.  And what's up with the phrase "chunk?")

"The arena is moving forward pending a show of support from students. It is expected that the vote will pass with flying colors, as a move on campus would cut the astronomical cost of leasing the U.S. Cellular Arena for men’s basketball and commencement."  (Again, full of opinion.  "Astronomical" relative to what?  And the phrase "flying colors?")

I think Jimmy needs a little work on his reporting skills.

I agree, sounded like a PR piece.

[GOMU1104]

Article from Jsonline, not a student writer:

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/business/84408692.html

[GOMU1104]

Well, that will never happen.  But why would you want UWM to eclipse Madison?  I like that both Madison and MU are good at the same time.  It makes the rivalry better.

This is such a backwards way of thinking. Its like when people talk about MU/DePaul.

You dont want DePaul/UW to be good "for the sake of the rivalry."  The better these teams are, the more you have to battle in recruiting and the more you have to battle for exposure.

[martyconlonontherun]

Should the plans go through, UWM will be planning to build on the current Kenwood campus and not around other university facilities. The two most prominent places also have varying costs. The current Klotsche Center footprint could be the home of the men’s basketball team. In that scenario, the Klotsche Center would be expanded west to accommodate concessions, concourses, visiting locker rooms and bathrooms that are needed to pass fire codes, not just seating.

The other footprint is a special one. The university’s plans to purchase the Colombia Hospital could include demolition of some of the west side of the hospital facilities to accommodate a basketball arena. That arena would be built from the ground up and cost a lot more money than a simple renovation for the Klotsche Center. The advantages to building a new arena on the Colombia grounds are exponential. With plans for 1,200 beds, the new dorms would probably connect to the arena, giving students an easy path into a large student section. Also, if done correctly, the men’s basketball program could become a huge revenue producer and the face of the university like such schools as Gonzaga, UCLA, Xavier, and Michigan State. The term “mid-major” could become obsolete when referring to the Milwaukee Athletics program.

I wonder what is meant by that. Do they mean literally connect or just that it is across the street. How awesome would it be to have a hall lead from a dorm to a student section. That would be absolutely crazy and a little genuis.

[Warrior of Law]

I actually went to a UWM game at the US Cellular this year.  Large portions of the seats are covered, one of the end zones is used as an in-game lounge.  There were about 12-15 students there.  On a Friday night, there was about 2,000 people there overall. It was a depressing sight.   Quite honestly, the Klotsche was a perfectly fine venue for UWM to play in.  They were at about 70% capacity for big games and it was a nice, comfortable facility.  Adding a few seats and going back to the Klotsche would make the most sense.  I just don't see why they would want to play in an old, empty arena miles from campus.

[martyconlonontherun]

How long does MU's contract go with UWM? Any chance an away game would be played there?

[Skatastrophy]

Well, that will never happen.  But why would you want UWM to eclipse Madison?  I like that both Madison and MU are good at the same time.  It makes the rivalry better.

It's my own little pipe dream that MU & UW@Milwaukee become similar to Duke & UNC-Chapel HIll.  I suppose that UW@Madison could be NC State, but they're a little too far away... so in my pipe dream they're UNC-Greensboro

[Tom Crean's Tanning Bed]

Considering how much stink has arisen from the East Side NIMBYs every time UWM has attempted some sort of campus expansion, I can't imagine them being too thrilled about the possibility of having a 6-8K arena somewhere in the neighborhood.  And I really can't see them knocking down the old Columbia St. Mary's hospital to do it either.

They're about as land locked as DePaul is; however, I'd put my money on DePaul getting a campus arena done before UWM ever does.

[Pakuni]

Odd idea.
Arenas (not Gilbert) generally are awash in red ink because they're hard to fill on non-sports dates. What would UWM do with a 6,000-seat arena on the 345+ nights a year the basketball team isn't playing? Would they be able to sell revenue-producing sponsorships and luxury boxes for UWM events? Would concerts, trade shows, conventions, etc. go out to the east side rather than downtown?
I'm not an expert on Milwaukee venues, but is there really a need for another mid-size facility?

The whole idea seems like a good way to lose a lot of money. Then again, as a taxpayer-funded entity, maybe they don't care if their arena loses hundreds of thousands, if not more, annually.

[Chili]

Considering how much stink has arisen from the East Side NIMBYs every time UWM has attempted some sort of campus expansion, I can't imagine them being too thrilled about the possibility of having a 6-8K arena somewhere in the neighborhood.  And I really can't see them knocking down the old Columbia St. Mary's hospital to do it either.

They're about as land locked as DePaul is; however, I'd put my money on DePaul getting a campus arena done before UWM ever does.

Ding. No way is this going to happen. The people who live around there are already pissed about how the school is transitioning from a large commuter school to one with on campus kids. This would be a parking nightmare. Not going to happen.

[martyconlonontherun]

Odd idea.
Arenas (not Gilbert) generally are awash in red ink because they're hard to fill on non-sports dates. What would UWM do with a 6,000-seat arena on the 345+ nights a year the basketball team isn't playing? Would they be able to sell revenue-producing sponsorships and luxury boxes for UWM events? Would concerts, trade shows, conventions, etc. go out to the east side rather than downtown?

The article stated concerts. One problem with the AL is I heard Crean would never allow concerts in it. No idea if Buzz has the same feeling. It would be great for student life if they had Rave quality band perform there.

[Tom Crean's Tanning Bed]

The article stated concerts. One problem with the AL is I heard Crean would never allow concerts in it. No idea if Buzz has the same feeling. It would be great for student life if they had Rave quality band perform there.

Partly true.  A lot of the issues with the lack of concerts there, though, has to do with more to do with the lack of student gov't budget for significant acts and the poor acoustics in the building than anything else.  When you're trying to book against the Rave, Pabst, Riverside, etc., it's not an easy building to sell.

[martyconlonontherun]

Partly true.  A lot of the issues with the lack of concerts there, though, has to do with more to do with the lack of student gov't budget for significant acts and the poor acoustics in the building than anything else.  When you're trying to book against the Rave, Pabst, Riverside, etc., it's not an easy building to sell.

Yeah, I wasn't saying a ton of concerts, but once a semester when we have taleb Klahid (sp?) amd Jack's Mannequin playing there instead of sold-out varsity.

[boyonthedock]

Talib Kweli

[avid1010]

The whole idea seems like a good way to lose a lot of money. Then again, as a taxpayer-funded entity, maybe they don't care if their arena loses hundreds of thousands, if not more, annually.

As proven by the taxpayers who recently bailed out private business to the tune of how much....

I'm not sure UWM isn't on to something here.  While it would benefit their sports teams, it would also create a venue in an area of Milwaukee that is difficult to find anything comparible.  If they can get it through, I think it's a great thing for their university.

[chapman]

Odd idea.
Arenas (not Gilbert) generally are awash in red ink because they're hard to fill on non-sports dates. What would UWM do with a 6,000-seat arena on the 345+ nights a year the basketball team isn't playing? Would they be able to sell revenue-producing sponsorships and luxury boxes for UWM events? Would concerts, trade shows, conventions, etc. go out to the east side rather than downtown?
I'm not an expert on Milwaukee venues, but is there really a need for another mid-size facility?

The whole idea seems like a good way to lose a lot of money. Then again, as a taxpayer-funded entity, maybe they don't care if their arena loses hundreds of thousands, if not more, annually.

Agreed.  Also something those who were talking about us building an on-campus arena and the parking that it requires seem to overlook.  In its current state, UWM can't even fill this thing during the ~18 times it has a basketball game, unless they're playing us or Madison.  They've got a different location and a different population, but it's still going to take a ton of effort to get concerts over the Rave or Pabst, or size down the big acts the BC draws.  What other options do they have that bring in more money than it costs to keep the lights on, much less cover some of the costs of building the thing?

Also why I'm not so sure the Al would be able to host concerts...what kind of act will they be able to get that they can pay more money than the Rave while making enough money for the school to make it worthwhile?  We're talking about bringing in money, not MUSG giving the students something to see.  UWM's only advantages for their plan don't apply to us, as MU students can already walk to the Rave.

[Ellenson Guerrero]

It's my own little pipe dream that MU & UW@Milwaukee become similar to Duke & UNC-Chapel HIll.  I suppose that UW@Madison could be NC State, but they're a little too far away... so in my pipe dream they're UNC-Greensboro

Ya that's pretty much a crack pipe dream... for either of the schools to make it to that level.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

does bbfran get the building named after him?

[GGGG]

This is such a backwards way of thinking. Its like when people talk about MU/DePaul.

You dont want DePaul/UW to be good "for the sake of the rivalry."  The better these teams are, the more you have to battle in recruiting and the more you have to battle for exposure.

Actually, I think yours is the backwards way of thinking.  Neither Wisconsin nor MU is going to get anywhere with primarily Wisconsin prospects, and we rarely recruit head to head against them elsewhere.  I think having a good rivalry with UW is good for the fans.  It's fun.

And yes, I do want DePaul to be good too.

[wyoMUfan]

would they call it the Bruce Pearl court?
god knows every uwm bball fan is obsessed with him.

[Doris Burkes Thong]

I get a feeling after Crean gets fired from "It's Indiana" in 2 years that he'll land on his feet right back in Milwaukee at UWM. And that will just enough time for UWM to get their new on-campus arena built for their new hire/PR machine Tom Crean. Remember Koonce is a former Marquette man and has had his share of dealings with Crean too so his vision is pretty easy to figure out thsi case.

[GGGG]

The whole idea seems like a good way to lose a lot of money. Then again, as a taxpayer-funded entity, maybe they don't care if their arena loses hundreds of thousands, if not more, annually.

I don't think it would be a tax payer funded entity.  It sounds like it would be funded through a mandatory $25 per semester student fee.  That would raise about $1.6 million per year.  Enough for a bonding.

[sailwi]

This is similar to all those supposed developments that never happen, pipe dream at best.  I live close to UWM and besides an arena they would have to accommodate parking needs, sorry but the Milwaukee County Transit System is not the answer.

[Silky]

does bbfran get the building named after him?

BBfran is spreading the good word.  In unreleated news, LANIO1, one of the Platteville Posse Bo-Bots found another thread to get a shot at Marquette in for no reason whatsoever.  All the guy does is talk about Marquette.  It's pretty funny watching one of the Bo-Bots at work bringing down a rival. 

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=193&f=2565&t=5619609

[GOMU1104]

Actually, I think yours is the backwards way of thinking.  Neither Wisconsin nor MU is going to get anywhere with primarily Wisconsin prospects, and we rarely recruit head to head against them elsewhere.  I think having a good rivalry with UW is good for the fans.  It's fun.

And yes, I do want DePaul to be good too.

So you want your rivals to be good? 

[Pakuni]

So you want your rivals to be good? 

Sure, as long as MU beats them. In fact, that makes beating them even better. Beating DePaul was a lot more fun when they had Quentin Richardson, Bobby Simmons, Steven Hunter, etc., than it is today.

The notion that Marquette's success is somehow dependent on its rivals being bad is just wrong.
UW and MU both have been consistently good for most of this decade.
Cincy and Xavier (and Ohio State, for that matter) have been good at the same time for long stretches.
Memphis and Tennessee.
And obviously Duke and UNC.

I don't think MU is better for UW's success, but we're not any worse either. It's not as if MU was reeling in championships during the Steve Yoder era. Or UW hoops took off during the Piano Man's reign of error.

[Pakuni]

I don't think it would be a tax payer funded entity.  It sounds like it would be funded through a mandatory $25 per semester student fee.  That would raise about $1.6 million per year.  Enough for a bonding.

Retiring bonds on a 6,000-8,000 seat arena (likely cost in excess of $45-$50 million) is going to cost a heck of a lot more than $1.6 million a year.  Unless the university somehow convinces its lender to go along with a 50-year repayment schedule, which is obviously never going to happen.

That said, a bond issue would cover some construction costs and i'm sure donations could pick up a chunk of the tab as well. But what about annual operational costs?
A 6,000+ -seat arena would costs millions of dollars a year to operate, far more than ticket sales for 15-20 UWM basketball games would generate. Would a new arena far from downtown be able to draw enough concerts, shows, etc., to offset those costs? Chances are, no. Many, if not most, arenas not attached to professional sports franchises are financial losers, especially those located outside city centers. Why, for example, would the circus choose the east side when it has viable options close to hotels and restaurants in a more central location downtown?

[Goatherder]

Retiring bonds on a 6,000-8,000 seat arena (likely cost in excess of $45-$50 million) is going to cost a heck of a lot more than $1.6 million a year.  Unless the university somehow convinces its lender to go along with a 50-year repayment schedule, which is obviously never going to happen.

That said, a bond issue would cover some construction costs and i'm sure donations could pick up a chunk of the tab as well. But what about annual operational costs?
A 6,000+ -seat arena would costs millions of dollars a year to operate, far more than ticket sales for 15-20 UWM basketball games would generate. Would a new arena far from downtown be able to draw enough concerts, shows, etc., to offset those costs? Chances are, no. Many, if not most, arenas not attached to professional sports franchises are financial losers, especially those located outside city centers. Why, for example, would the circus choose the east side when it has viable options close to hotels and restaurants in a more central location downtown?

They also save the cost of renting the Cell and they use it for other campus events.  if they actually get some use out of it as an academic building, it might make more financial sense.  The fact that Koonce it talking about it publicly and there is an article in the business section of the local paper suggest that this is no pipe dream, it is a serious proposal and some significant planning has gone into it already. 

[martyconlonontherun]

So you want your rivals to be good? 

If they weren't good they wouldn't be rivals. Yes, its fun to make fun of them when they are bad, but then the rivalry isn't as intense. There's a reason why Packers/Vikings is better than Packers/Lions.

If you really want your rivals to be bad I don't know what to say. Let's sign a 50-year contract with a hs girls team.

[GGGG]

Retiring bonds on a 6,000-8,000 seat arena (likely cost in excess of $45-$50 million) is going to cost a heck of a lot more than $1.6 million a year.  Unless the university somehow convinces its lender to go along with a 50-year repayment schedule, which is obviously never going to happen.

That said, a bond issue would cover some construction costs and i'm sure donations could pick up a chunk of the tab as well. But what about annual operational costs?
A 6,000+ -seat arena would costs millions of dollars a year to operate, far more than ticket sales for 15-20 UWM basketball games would generate. Would a new arena far from downtown be able to draw enough concerts, shows, etc., to offset those costs? Chances are, no. Many, if not most, arenas not attached to professional sports franchises are financial losers, especially those located outside city centers. Why, for example, would the circus choose the east side when it has viable options close to hotels and restaurants in a more central location downtown?

A couple of points.  Gonzaga's new arena cost $25 million.  Source:

http://www.gozags.com/school-bio/hoops-arena.html

It is a 6,000 seat arena too.  If land acquisition isn't an issue (and I do not know if it is or not), UWM's arena isn't going to cost "$45-50 million."  That makes the bonding issue much easier.

Also, this arena will not cost "millions" of dollars a year to operate.  Not even close.  You have to hire a couple people to keep it clean...pay excess heating and air conditioning (which is probably centralized)....and enough supplies to cover wear and tear.  All of that can be easilly covered by the rent they currently pay the Cell with some left over.

And as people mentioned, this is without any fundraising to pay for amenities so that will knock down the cost even more.  Nor does it address that UWM will be able to keep all concessions.

[GGGG]

So you want your rivals to be good? 

Of course.  What fun is it to beat up on rivals when they are down?  It's a lot more entertaining when you play them when both are good.

I personally like when they are good...and suffer heartbreak...like the Vikings did this year.

[GOMU1104]

The notion that Marquette's success is somehow dependent on its rivals being bad is just wrong.
UW and MU both have been consistently good for most of this decade.
Cincy and Xavier (and Ohio State, for that matter) have been good at the same time for long stretches.
Memphis and Tennessee.
And obviously Duke and UNC.

Do you honestly think each of those schools hopes the other is successful?  All of those schools wish nothing but ill-will towards the other.


Rivalries are fun, and exciting...but that doesn't mean we should "hope" our rivals are good.  MU having success, coupled with DePaul and UW being down is far better than having those programs doing well "just so the rivalry is better."

[GGGG]

Do you honestly think each of those schools hopes the other is successful?  All of those schools wish nothing but ill-will towards the other.


Rivalries are fun, and exciting...but that doesn't mean we should "hope" our rivals are good.  MU having success, coupled with DePaul and UW being down is far better than having those programs doing well "just so the rivalry is better."

I'm sorry.  I'm going to disagree.  I want rivalry games to mean something.  I want there to be excitement in the arena.  I would love for MU and De Paul to meet sometime when both are in the top 10.  That would be a lot more fun than it is now.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

A couple of points.  Gonzaga's new arena cost $25 million.  Source:

http://www.gozags.com/school-bio/hoops-arena.html

It is a 6,000 seat arena too.  If land acquisition isn't an issue (and I do not know if it is or not), UWM's arena isn't going to cost "$45-50 million."  That makes the bonding issue much easier.

Also, this arena will not cost "millions" of dollars a year to operate.  Not even close.  You have to hire a couple people to keep it clean...pay excess heating and air conditioning (which is probably centralized)....and enough supplies to cover wear and tear.  All of that can be easilly covered by the rent they currently pay the Cell with some left over.

And as people mentioned, this is without any fundraising to pay for amenities so that will knock down the cost even more.  Nor does it address that UWM will be able to keep all concessions.

What does UWM pay for rent in the cell?

I was under the impression it wasn't much at all because the Cell wants to fill dates and gets the concessions.

(I could be wrong).

Regardless, I think this is an interesting idea. I don't think building the arena will be that big of a challenge... but the logistics (traffic and parking) will pose a bigger challenge.

[GGGG]

What does UWM pay for rent in the cell?

I was under the impression it wasn't much at all because the Cell wants to fill dates and gets the concessions.

(I could be wrong).

Regardless, I think this is an interesting idea. I don't think building the arena will be that big of a challenge... but the logistics (traffic and parking) will pose a bigger challenge.

The original article said that it is "rumored to be $500,000 per year."  You are correct about the parking issue being another one that would need to be addressed.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The original article said that it is "rumored to be $500,000 per year."  You are correct about the parking issue being another one that would need to be addressed.

Ah ha.

Sorry I missed the $500K per year. That's way more than I thought.

I think it's a cool idea, and UWM has made some pretty big strides as a campus and school over the past 5 years. A lot more nice dorms on the eastside now. I'm no UWM fan, but I have to admit that they are carving out a nice little community on the east side.

An on campus arena would be a great unifier for the student community.

The 2 biggest holes in the plan:

- Can you use the building enough to make it "worth it"? (what other events can you use the building for?, maybe highschool games? concerts, public meetings? time to get creative...)

- Can they figure out the travel logistics? It'll essentially be in a neighborhood like Wrigley is, which is a nightmare. Obviously they won't draw as many people as Wrigley, but still, traffic and parking will still be huge hurdles.

[LON]

Ah ha.

Sorry I missed the $500K per year. That's way more than I thought.

I think it's a cool idea, and UWM has made some pretty big strides as a campus and school over the past 5 years. A lot more nice dorms on the eastside now. I'm no UWM fan, but I have to admit that they are carving out a nice little community on the east side.

An on campus arena would be a great unifier for the student community.

The 2 biggest holes in the plan:

- Can you use the building enough to make it "worth it"? (what other events can you use the building for?, maybe highschool games? concerts, public meetings? time to get creative...)

- Can they figure out the travel logistics? It'll essentially be in a neighborhood like Wrigley is, which is a nightmare. Obviously they won't draw as many people as Wrigley, but still, traffic and parking will still be huge hurdles.

Parking on the east side is already ridiculous

[Ari Gold]

There was a question earlier about taxpayer funding, which the JS also asked. http://www.jsonline.com/business/84474047.html

The University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee will not use state tax dollars to either build a new on-campus arena or renovate the existing Klotsche Center, a top university official said Tuesday.

Tom Luljak, vice chancellor for university relations and communications, said that "if we do an expansion of the Klotsche Center or build a new one, it will not be paid for from state capital funds used for academic purposes."

Instead, UWM would raise the money - expected to be in the tens of millions of dollars - through a combination of student fees, program revenue and, perhaps most important, donations from alumni.

[ChicosBailBonds]

What does UWM pay for rent in the cell?

I was under the impression it wasn't much at all because the Cell wants to fill dates and gets the concessions.

(I could be wrong).

Regardless, I think this is an interesting idea. I don't think building the arena will be that big of a challenge... but the logistics (traffic and parking) will pose a bigger challenge.

About $25K per game was one quote I heard

[ChicosBailBonds]

BBfran is spreading the good word.  In unreleated news, LANIO1, one of the Platteville Posse Bo-Bots found another thread to get a shot at Marquette in for no reason whatsoever.  All the guy does is talk about Marquette.  It's pretty funny watching one of the Bo-Bots at work bringing down a rival. 

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=193&f=2565&t=5619609

I enjoyed his quote over there on how Marquette plays a "feminist" style of basketball.  LOL.  Or that outside of the top 6 Big East teams, the remainder are awful.     I guess he still doesn't understand that the Big Ten is ranked behind the Big East...again.

[GGGG]

There was a question earlier about taxpayer funding, which the JS also asked. http://www.jsonline.com/business/84474047.html

The University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee will not use state tax dollars to either build a new on-campus arena or renovate the existing Klotsche Center, a top university official said Tuesday.

Tom Luljak, vice chancellor for university relations and communications, said that "if we do an expansion of the Klotsche Center or build a new one, it will not be paid for from state capital funds used for academic purposes."

Instead, UWM would raise the money - expected to be in the tens of millions of dollars - through a combination of student fees, program revenue and, perhaps most important, donations from alumni.

FYI "program revenue" means ticket sales, sponsorships, concessions, etc.

[Pakuni]

A couple of points.  Gonzaga's new arena cost $25 million.  Source:

http://www.gozags.com/school-bio/hoops-arena.html

It is a 6,000 seat arena too.  If land acquisition isn't an issue (and I do not know if it is or not), UWM's arena isn't going to cost "$45-50 million."  That makes the bonding issue much easier.

It may make it easier, but still won't be covered by a $25-per-semester student fee.
As for land acquisition, I suspect the land won't be free.

Also, this arena will not cost "millions" of dollars a year to operate.  Not even close.  You have to hire a couple people to keep it clean...pay excess heating and air conditioning (which is probably centralized)....and enough supplies to cover wear and tear.  All of that can be easilly covered by the rent they currently pay the Cell with some left over.

Not close. Millions may have been strong on my part, but your'e vastly underestimating operating costs.
The Sears Centre in suburban Chicago, for example, has operating annual costs estimated as high as $1.9 million. That's a slightly larger facility than the proposed UWM building, but figuring economies of scale, etc., it's not ridiculous to estimate the UWM costs in the neighborhood of $1.5 million annually.
Louisville's proposed new arena has an estimated operating expense of $9 million a year.
Conseco Fieldhouse - obviously an even larger facility - has operation costs of about $15 million a year.

Now, maybe they're horribly mismanaged, but do you think a 6,000-seat arena would cost less than about 7 percent of that?

I'll provide more examples if you're interested/if I find time.

Nor does it address that UWM will be able to keep all concessions.

Not really. They, like just about every other arena on the planet, will contract with a concessions company, which will derive some additional revenues, but still unlikely to cover costs.

[GGGG]

Not close. Millions may have been strong on my part, but your'e vastly underestimating operating costs.
The Sears Centre in suburban Chicago, for example, has operating annual costs estimated as high as $1.9 million. That's a slightly larger facility than the proposed UWM building, but figuring economies of scale, etc., it's not ridiculous to estimate the UWM costs in the neighborhood of $1.5 million annually.
Louisville's proposed new arena has an estimated operating expense of $9 million a year.
Conseco Fieldhouse - obviously an even larger facility - has operation costs of about $15 million a year.

Now, maybe they're horribly mismanaged, but do you think a 6,000-seat arena would cost less than about 7 percent of that?

You are comparing apples and oranges.  The Sears Center is a stand-alone facility that has all sorts of events besides basketball.  They not only have to clean the place, but they have to market it, run the accounting, do set up, etc.  Louisville probably runs their facility *like* a stand along facility - without any supplement from the University at large.

At UWM, they already have a staff that runs the Klotchke Center and their other athletic facilities.  They already have a staff that does the accounting and the set-up.  Those people would run the new facility.  The marginal costs would certainly increase, but not by a factor of "millions."  I mean, where do you think your projected costs would come from?


Additional Information:  As I look further at this, they are probably going to move to a model that you see more at other Horizon League teams.  For instance, here is the Valparaiso Athletics Recreation Center.  A 5,000 seat stadium that is also used for student recreation, physical education, etc.

http://www.valpoathletics.com/facilities/reccenter/

The operating costs for something like would be pretty much already borne by the existing costs of running the Kloschke Center.  Sure there would be some increase, but my guess is that they are hoping that additional ticket revenue will take care of that.

You can't treat it like a stand-alone building, detached from the University, because that is not what it will be.

[MU111]

Land acquisition doesn't seem to be much of a factor in this case.  If UWM doesn't renovate and expand the Klotsche Center, there's nowhere else on campus to put a 6,000 to 8,000 seat arena.  I think it's funny that someone in the Journal-Sentinel mentioned the Columbia Hospital parcel as being the perfect spot for the arena.  However, the school already plans to renovate many of the existing buildings on that site, leaving no room for an arena.  The only thing that parcel could really contribute would be its parking structure.

That said, as an MU alum going to grad school at UWM, I'll certainly be complaining if my student fees go up $50 per year to fund this project.   

[Ari Gold]

Just thought about this... and kind of wanted to speculate:

IF UWM moves out of the US Cell, what happens to that building? The wave certainly can't hold it on it's own. With the combination of the BC, Pabst, Milwaukee Theater, PAC etc... The market is pretty full for concert halls/arena. The Admirals couldn't move (at least I don't think) and I'm not sure of the financial future of the Wave or Iron is secure enough to bank on them saving that building. -Are the Bonecrushers still around?-

Given that that space of land (and if you want to include the Midwest Express Building, which is nearly always empty) is there a chance/opportunity/need for a new arena in Milwaukee? (as long as it's not taxpayer funded) It seems like a logical in that what will be left in the cell won't be able to maintain it. i'm just kind of shooting from the hip here and just wanted to put this to the forum.

[bma725]

The footprint of that site isn't big enough for a modern day arena.  They'd have to tear down the Milwaukee Theater as well just to have enough space, and the Wisconsin Center District would never admit that they made a mistake pouring funding into the Theater.  Plus, doing it without public funding is going to be a near impossibility.  The Admirals won't pay for another stadium, the Wave can't pay for another stadium, and I doubt Senator Kohl would finance all of it given his age and desire to sell the Bucks at some point in the near future.

[martyconlonontherun]

Ari- Not sure if the "chance/opportunity/need for a new arena" was referring to the UWM arena. But another OT arena subject would be what happens with the Bradley Center. Whether or not this will happen/should happen, the Bucks only chance in Milwaukee would be if there was a new arena downtown. And the only way for it to be profitable would be for it to be surrounded b restaurants/shops/etc. It will be interesting to see the state of arenas and basketball teams in Milwaukee in 5 years.

[martyconlonontherun]

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=4th+and+state+milwaukee&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=W+State+St+%26+N+4th+St,+Milwaukee,+Wisconsin+53203&gl=us&ei=CE98S9WLKI6INOXHha0F&ved=0CAsQ8gEwAA&t=h&z=16
Anyone know if anything is planned North and North West of the BC?

[Hards Alumni]

I've always wondered why that entire strip of land has remained abandoned since the late 90s early 00's.

[GGGG]

Just thought about this... and kind of wanted to speculate:

IF UWM moves out of the US Cell, what happens to that building? The wave certainly can't hold it on it's own. With the combination of the BC, Pabst, Milwaukee Theater, PAC etc... The market is pretty full for concert halls/arena. The Admirals couldn't move (at least I don't think) and I'm not sure of the financial future of the Wave or Iron is secure enough to bank on them saving that building. -Are the Bonecrushers still around?-

Given that that space of land (and if you want to include the Midwest Express Building, which is nearly always empty) is there a chance/opportunity/need for a new arena in Milwaukee? (as long as it's not taxpayer funded) It seems like a logical in that what will be left in the cell won't be able to maintain it. i'm just kind of shooting from the hip here and just wanted to put this to the forum.

Well, something will have to be done...probably within the next decade or so.  And to think that a replacement could be built without tax money is a pipe dream - there aren't Jane Pettits out there getting rich off the sale of Allen-Bradley out there right now.  My hope is that they simply extend the Miller Park sales tax to build a new arena.

[MU111]

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=4th+and+state+milwaukee&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=W+State+St+%26+N+4th+St,+Milwaukee,+Wisconsin+53203&gl=us&ei=CE98S9WLKI6INOXHha0F&ved=0CAsQ8gEwAA&t=h&z=16
Anyone know if anything is planned North and North West of the BC?

JSOnline has a picture of the Bradley Center's proposed mixed use development at this link:
http://www.jsonline.com/business/81051877.html
and the article on the proposal itself, dating back to May 2008 is here:
http://www.jsonline.com/business/29586364.html

The BC has floated proposals for years for the land directly north and northwest of the arena.  They proposed a theater several years ago to increase revenue but renovating the Auditorium into the new Milwaukee Theater killed that plan.  This newer plan calls for a mix of commercial, retail, and residential but it isn't much more than a pipe dream at this point.

A 15 to 20 story hotel proposed a block east of the strip of land bordered by McKinley, Juneau, 4th, and 6th, died recently, as well, because the developers couldn't secure financing.  The main problem at this point is that the county owns most of the land created by the removal of the Park East freeway.  They don't want to split up the land into smaller, more manageable parcels, meaning that a very large, very expensive development would have to be created to be economically feasible.  At this point, no one is going to be willing to provide financing for something so large.  Therefore, unfortunately there might not be anything going up for at least a couple of years.

[MU111]

Well, something will have to be done...probably within the next decade or so.  And to think that a replacement could be built without tax money is a pipe dream - there aren't Jane Pettits out there getting rich off the sale of Allen-Bradley out there right now.  My hope is that they simply extend the Miller Park sales tax to build a new arena.

I think the Bradley Center is the 4rd oldest arena in the NBA, behind MSG, the Izod Center (Nets) and Arco Arena (Kings).  It's definitely outdated for the NBA, at least, and probably has less than ten years left.  It was built with the intent of luring an NHL team to Milwaukee so the sight lines are obviously bad for basketball.  Not to mention, there basically no club seats, fewer lower level seats than newer arenas, and no year-round amenities like restaurants.

I'd agree with you that the sales tax should be expanded for a new arena.  Unfortunately, I don't think most people in the area share that sentiment, as the current sales tax probably won't expire until late this decade and a new arena would easily cost $300 million.

Something needs to be done though because the Bucks will be gone if there are no plans for a new arena in place when Herb Kohl sells the team.

[wallybinghampton]

the idea of UWM needing an on-campus arena, besides the facility they already have, is absurd. they need to come to terms with their station in life.