UW-Shorewood East to build an on-campus arena

[wyoMUfan]

would they call it the Bruce Pearl court?
god knows every uwm bball fan is obsessed with him.

[Doris Burkes Thong]

I get a feeling after Crean gets fired from "It's Indiana" in 2 years that he'll land on his feet right back in Milwaukee at UWM. And that will just enough time for UWM to get their new on-campus arena built for their new hire/PR machine Tom Crean. Remember Koonce is a former Marquette man and has had his share of dealings with Crean too so his vision is pretty easy to figure out thsi case.

[GGGG]

The whole idea seems like a good way to lose a lot of money. Then again, as a taxpayer-funded entity, maybe they don't care if their arena loses hundreds of thousands, if not more, annually.

I don't think it would be a tax payer funded entity.  It sounds like it would be funded through a mandatory $25 per semester student fee.  That would raise about $1.6 million per year.  Enough for a bonding.

[sailwi]

This is similar to all those supposed developments that never happen, pipe dream at best.  I live close to UWM and besides an arena they would have to accommodate parking needs, sorry but the Milwaukee County Transit System is not the answer.

[Silky]

does bbfran get the building named after him?

BBfran is spreading the good word.  In unreleated news, LANIO1, one of the Platteville Posse Bo-Bots found another thread to get a shot at Marquette in for no reason whatsoever.  All the guy does is talk about Marquette.  It's pretty funny watching one of the Bo-Bots at work bringing down a rival. 

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=193&f=2565&t=5619609

[GOMU1104]

Actually, I think yours is the backwards way of thinking.  Neither Wisconsin nor MU is going to get anywhere with primarily Wisconsin prospects, and we rarely recruit head to head against them elsewhere.  I think having a good rivalry with UW is good for the fans.  It's fun.

And yes, I do want DePaul to be good too.

So you want your rivals to be good? 

[Pakuni]

So you want your rivals to be good? 

Sure, as long as MU beats them. In fact, that makes beating them even better. Beating DePaul was a lot more fun when they had Quentin Richardson, Bobby Simmons, Steven Hunter, etc., than it is today.

The notion that Marquette's success is somehow dependent on its rivals being bad is just wrong.
UW and MU both have been consistently good for most of this decade.
Cincy and Xavier (and Ohio State, for that matter) have been good at the same time for long stretches.
Memphis and Tennessee.
And obviously Duke and UNC.

I don't think MU is better for UW's success, but we're not any worse either. It's not as if MU was reeling in championships during the Steve Yoder era. Or UW hoops took off during the Piano Man's reign of error.

[Pakuni]

I don't think it would be a tax payer funded entity.  It sounds like it would be funded through a mandatory $25 per semester student fee.  That would raise about $1.6 million per year.  Enough for a bonding.

Retiring bonds on a 6,000-8,000 seat arena (likely cost in excess of $45-$50 million) is going to cost a heck of a lot more than $1.6 million a year.  Unless the university somehow convinces its lender to go along with a 50-year repayment schedule, which is obviously never going to happen.

That said, a bond issue would cover some construction costs and i'm sure donations could pick up a chunk of the tab as well. But what about annual operational costs?
A 6,000+ -seat arena would costs millions of dollars a year to operate, far more than ticket sales for 15-20 UWM basketball games would generate. Would a new arena far from downtown be able to draw enough concerts, shows, etc., to offset those costs? Chances are, no. Many, if not most, arenas not attached to professional sports franchises are financial losers, especially those located outside city centers. Why, for example, would the circus choose the east side when it has viable options close to hotels and restaurants in a more central location downtown?

[Goatherder]

Retiring bonds on a 6,000-8,000 seat arena (likely cost in excess of $45-$50 million) is going to cost a heck of a lot more than $1.6 million a year.  Unless the university somehow convinces its lender to go along with a 50-year repayment schedule, which is obviously never going to happen.

That said, a bond issue would cover some construction costs and i'm sure donations could pick up a chunk of the tab as well. But what about annual operational costs?
A 6,000+ -seat arena would costs millions of dollars a year to operate, far more than ticket sales for 15-20 UWM basketball games would generate. Would a new arena far from downtown be able to draw enough concerts, shows, etc., to offset those costs? Chances are, no. Many, if not most, arenas not attached to professional sports franchises are financial losers, especially those located outside city centers. Why, for example, would the circus choose the east side when it has viable options close to hotels and restaurants in a more central location downtown?

They also save the cost of renting the Cell and they use it for other campus events.  if they actually get some use out of it as an academic building, it might make more financial sense.  The fact that Koonce it talking about it publicly and there is an article in the business section of the local paper suggest that this is no pipe dream, it is a serious proposal and some significant planning has gone into it already. 

[martyconlonontherun]

So you want your rivals to be good? 

If they weren't good they wouldn't be rivals. Yes, its fun to make fun of them when they are bad, but then the rivalry isn't as intense. There's a reason why Packers/Vikings is better than Packers/Lions.

If you really want your rivals to be bad I don't know what to say. Let's sign a 50-year contract with a hs girls team.

[GGGG]

Retiring bonds on a 6,000-8,000 seat arena (likely cost in excess of $45-$50 million) is going to cost a heck of a lot more than $1.6 million a year.  Unless the university somehow convinces its lender to go along with a 50-year repayment schedule, which is obviously never going to happen.

That said, a bond issue would cover some construction costs and i'm sure donations could pick up a chunk of the tab as well. But what about annual operational costs?
A 6,000+ -seat arena would costs millions of dollars a year to operate, far more than ticket sales for 15-20 UWM basketball games would generate. Would a new arena far from downtown be able to draw enough concerts, shows, etc., to offset those costs? Chances are, no. Many, if not most, arenas not attached to professional sports franchises are financial losers, especially those located outside city centers. Why, for example, would the circus choose the east side when it has viable options close to hotels and restaurants in a more central location downtown?

A couple of points.  Gonzaga's new arena cost $25 million.  Source:

http://www.gozags.com/school-bio/hoops-arena.html

It is a 6,000 seat arena too.  If land acquisition isn't an issue (and I do not know if it is or not), UWM's arena isn't going to cost "$45-50 million."  That makes the bonding issue much easier.

Also, this arena will not cost "millions" of dollars a year to operate.  Not even close.  You have to hire a couple people to keep it clean...pay excess heating and air conditioning (which is probably centralized)....and enough supplies to cover wear and tear.  All of that can be easilly covered by the rent they currently pay the Cell with some left over.

And as people mentioned, this is without any fundraising to pay for amenities so that will knock down the cost even more.  Nor does it address that UWM will be able to keep all concessions.

[GGGG]

So you want your rivals to be good? 

Of course.  What fun is it to beat up on rivals when they are down?  It's a lot more entertaining when you play them when both are good.

I personally like when they are good...and suffer heartbreak...like the Vikings did this year.

[GOMU1104]

The notion that Marquette's success is somehow dependent on its rivals being bad is just wrong.
UW and MU both have been consistently good for most of this decade.
Cincy and Xavier (and Ohio State, for that matter) have been good at the same time for long stretches.
Memphis and Tennessee.
And obviously Duke and UNC.

Do you honestly think each of those schools hopes the other is successful?  All of those schools wish nothing but ill-will towards the other.


Rivalries are fun, and exciting...but that doesn't mean we should "hope" our rivals are good.  MU having success, coupled with DePaul and UW being down is far better than having those programs doing well "just so the rivalry is better."

[GGGG]

Do you honestly think each of those schools hopes the other is successful?  All of those schools wish nothing but ill-will towards the other.


Rivalries are fun, and exciting...but that doesn't mean we should "hope" our rivals are good.  MU having success, coupled with DePaul and UW being down is far better than having those programs doing well "just so the rivalry is better."

I'm sorry.  I'm going to disagree.  I want rivalry games to mean something.  I want there to be excitement in the arena.  I would love for MU and De Paul to meet sometime when both are in the top 10.  That would be a lot more fun than it is now.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

A couple of points.  Gonzaga's new arena cost $25 million.  Source:

http://www.gozags.com/school-bio/hoops-arena.html

It is a 6,000 seat arena too.  If land acquisition isn't an issue (and I do not know if it is or not), UWM's arena isn't going to cost "$45-50 million."  That makes the bonding issue much easier.

Also, this arena will not cost "millions" of dollars a year to operate.  Not even close.  You have to hire a couple people to keep it clean...pay excess heating and air conditioning (which is probably centralized)....and enough supplies to cover wear and tear.  All of that can be easilly covered by the rent they currently pay the Cell with some left over.

And as people mentioned, this is without any fundraising to pay for amenities so that will knock down the cost even more.  Nor does it address that UWM will be able to keep all concessions.

What does UWM pay for rent in the cell?

I was under the impression it wasn't much at all because the Cell wants to fill dates and gets the concessions.

(I could be wrong).

Regardless, I think this is an interesting idea. I don't think building the arena will be that big of a challenge... but the logistics (traffic and parking) will pose a bigger challenge.

[GGGG]

What does UWM pay for rent in the cell?

I was under the impression it wasn't much at all because the Cell wants to fill dates and gets the concessions.

(I could be wrong).

Regardless, I think this is an interesting idea. I don't think building the arena will be that big of a challenge... but the logistics (traffic and parking) will pose a bigger challenge.

The original article said that it is "rumored to be $500,000 per year."  You are correct about the parking issue being another one that would need to be addressed.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

The original article said that it is "rumored to be $500,000 per year."  You are correct about the parking issue being another one that would need to be addressed.

Ah ha.

Sorry I missed the $500K per year. That's way more than I thought.

I think it's a cool idea, and UWM has made some pretty big strides as a campus and school over the past 5 years. A lot more nice dorms on the eastside now. I'm no UWM fan, but I have to admit that they are carving out a nice little community on the east side.

An on campus arena would be a great unifier for the student community.

The 2 biggest holes in the plan:

- Can you use the building enough to make it "worth it"? (what other events can you use the building for?, maybe highschool games? concerts, public meetings? time to get creative...)

- Can they figure out the travel logistics? It'll essentially be in a neighborhood like Wrigley is, which is a nightmare. Obviously they won't draw as many people as Wrigley, but still, traffic and parking will still be huge hurdles.

[LON]

Ah ha.

Sorry I missed the $500K per year. That's way more than I thought.

I think it's a cool idea, and UWM has made some pretty big strides as a campus and school over the past 5 years. A lot more nice dorms on the eastside now. I'm no UWM fan, but I have to admit that they are carving out a nice little community on the east side.

An on campus arena would be a great unifier for the student community.

The 2 biggest holes in the plan:

- Can you use the building enough to make it "worth it"? (what other events can you use the building for?, maybe highschool games? concerts, public meetings? time to get creative...)

- Can they figure out the travel logistics? It'll essentially be in a neighborhood like Wrigley is, which is a nightmare. Obviously they won't draw as many people as Wrigley, but still, traffic and parking will still be huge hurdles.

Parking on the east side is already ridiculous

[Ari Gold]

There was a question earlier about taxpayer funding, which the JS also asked. http://www.jsonline.com/business/84474047.html

The University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee will not use state tax dollars to either build a new on-campus arena or renovate the existing Klotsche Center, a top university official said Tuesday.

Tom Luljak, vice chancellor for university relations and communications, said that "if we do an expansion of the Klotsche Center or build a new one, it will not be paid for from state capital funds used for academic purposes."

Instead, UWM would raise the money - expected to be in the tens of millions of dollars - through a combination of student fees, program revenue and, perhaps most important, donations from alumni.

[ChicosBailBonds]

What does UWM pay for rent in the cell?

I was under the impression it wasn't much at all because the Cell wants to fill dates and gets the concessions.

(I could be wrong).

Regardless, I think this is an interesting idea. I don't think building the arena will be that big of a challenge... but the logistics (traffic and parking) will pose a bigger challenge.

About $25K per game was one quote I heard

[ChicosBailBonds]

BBfran is spreading the good word.  In unreleated news, LANIO1, one of the Platteville Posse Bo-Bots found another thread to get a shot at Marquette in for no reason whatsoever.  All the guy does is talk about Marquette.  It's pretty funny watching one of the Bo-Bots at work bringing down a rival. 

http://mbd.scout.com/mb.aspx?s=193&f=2565&t=5619609

I enjoyed his quote over there on how Marquette plays a "feminist" style of basketball.  LOL.  Or that outside of the top 6 Big East teams, the remainder are awful.     I guess he still doesn't understand that the Big Ten is ranked behind the Big East...again.

[GGGG]

There was a question earlier about taxpayer funding, which the JS also asked. http://www.jsonline.com/business/84474047.html

The University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee will not use state tax dollars to either build a new on-campus arena or renovate the existing Klotsche Center, a top university official said Tuesday.

Tom Luljak, vice chancellor for university relations and communications, said that "if we do an expansion of the Klotsche Center or build a new one, it will not be paid for from state capital funds used for academic purposes."

Instead, UWM would raise the money - expected to be in the tens of millions of dollars - through a combination of student fees, program revenue and, perhaps most important, donations from alumni.

FYI "program revenue" means ticket sales, sponsorships, concessions, etc.

[Pakuni]

A couple of points.  Gonzaga's new arena cost $25 million.  Source:

http://www.gozags.com/school-bio/hoops-arena.html

It is a 6,000 seat arena too.  If land acquisition isn't an issue (and I do not know if it is or not), UWM's arena isn't going to cost "$45-50 million."  That makes the bonding issue much easier.

It may make it easier, but still won't be covered by a $25-per-semester student fee.
As for land acquisition, I suspect the land won't be free.

Also, this arena will not cost "millions" of dollars a year to operate.  Not even close.  You have to hire a couple people to keep it clean...pay excess heating and air conditioning (which is probably centralized)....and enough supplies to cover wear and tear.  All of that can be easilly covered by the rent they currently pay the Cell with some left over.

Not close. Millions may have been strong on my part, but your'e vastly underestimating operating costs.
The Sears Centre in suburban Chicago, for example, has operating annual costs estimated as high as $1.9 million. That's a slightly larger facility than the proposed UWM building, but figuring economies of scale, etc., it's not ridiculous to estimate the UWM costs in the neighborhood of $1.5 million annually.
Louisville's proposed new arena has an estimated operating expense of $9 million a year.
Conseco Fieldhouse - obviously an even larger facility - has operation costs of about $15 million a year.

Now, maybe they're horribly mismanaged, but do you think a 6,000-seat arena would cost less than about 7 percent of that?

I'll provide more examples if you're interested/if I find time.

Nor does it address that UWM will be able to keep all concessions.

Not really. They, like just about every other arena on the planet, will contract with a concessions company, which will derive some additional revenues, but still unlikely to cover costs.

[GGGG]

Not close. Millions may have been strong on my part, but your'e vastly underestimating operating costs.
The Sears Centre in suburban Chicago, for example, has operating annual costs estimated as high as $1.9 million. That's a slightly larger facility than the proposed UWM building, but figuring economies of scale, etc., it's not ridiculous to estimate the UWM costs in the neighborhood of $1.5 million annually.
Louisville's proposed new arena has an estimated operating expense of $9 million a year.
Conseco Fieldhouse - obviously an even larger facility - has operation costs of about $15 million a year.

Now, maybe they're horribly mismanaged, but do you think a 6,000-seat arena would cost less than about 7 percent of that?

You are comparing apples and oranges.  The Sears Center is a stand-alone facility that has all sorts of events besides basketball.  They not only have to clean the place, but they have to market it, run the accounting, do set up, etc.  Louisville probably runs their facility *like* a stand along facility - without any supplement from the University at large.

At UWM, they already have a staff that runs the Klotchke Center and their other athletic facilities.  They already have a staff that does the accounting and the set-up.  Those people would run the new facility.  The marginal costs would certainly increase, but not by a factor of "millions."  I mean, where do you think your projected costs would come from?


Additional Information:  As I look further at this, they are probably going to move to a model that you see more at other Horizon League teams.  For instance, here is the Valparaiso Athletics Recreation Center.  A 5,000 seat stadium that is also used for student recreation, physical education, etc.

http://www.valpoathletics.com/facilities/reccenter/

The operating costs for something like would be pretty much already borne by the existing costs of running the Kloschke Center.  Sure there would be some increase, but my guess is that they are hoping that additional ticket revenue will take care of that.

You can't treat it like a stand-alone building, detached from the University, because that is not what it will be.

[MU111]

Land acquisition doesn't seem to be much of a factor in this case.  If UWM doesn't renovate and expand the Klotsche Center, there's nowhere else on campus to put a 6,000 to 8,000 seat arena.  I think it's funny that someone in the Journal-Sentinel mentioned the Columbia Hospital parcel as being the perfect spot for the arena.  However, the school already plans to renovate many of the existing buildings on that site, leaving no room for an arena.  The only thing that parcel could really contribute would be its parking structure.

That said, as an MU alum going to grad school at UWM, I'll certainly be complaining if my student fees go up $50 per year to fund this project.