Gotta start it...Dawson needs to be starting PG

[bilsu]

They both played 20 minutes. Derrick 10 assits & 1 turnover. Dawson 6 assists and 2 turnovers. Dawson 2 points vs 0 for Derrick. Rebounds Derrick 5 vs Dawson 4. Steals Derrick 1 Dawson 0. The only thing Dawson did better was score and that was on a nice drive to the basket vs. hitting an outside shot.  My guess is that after watching the two play against Ohio St. there will be no more debating on which one is better.

[GGGG]

They both played 20 minutes. Derrick 10 assits & 1 turnover. Dawson 6 assists and 2 turnovers. Dawson 2 points vs 0 for Derrick. Rebounds Derrick 5 vs Dawson 4. Steals Derrick 1 Dawson 0. The only thing Dawson did better was score and that was on a nice drive to the basket vs. hitting an outside shot.  My guess is that after watching the two play against Ohio St. there will be no more debating on which one is better.

And Derrick's TO was on the first play of the game.  As I recall, it was a miscommunication and he threw it out of bounds.

I eagerly await for Dawson and Duane to struggle at some point as juniors, and for the Scoop community to call for Nick to come in off the bench.  Our favorite point guards always seem to be the next ones.

[teamdee]

JD is smoov with it

[teamdee]

Respect the process of derrick wilson, jd will be a solid asset to this team this year doe.

[Freeport Warrior]

I'm fine with Derrick out there "not scoring," but we need to have a 2 out there who is a dual threat like Mayo. Jake is a pass it around the horn guy who doesn't ever put the ball on the floor, simply looking to spot up for a 3. Last night's exhibition wasn't the real world. We could have dumped it down to our big  guys every time to score. I mean EVERY TIME. In the real world, our big guys will have resistance. I'm hoping Jake's starting is last year's Juan starting. When we can go small, Mayo in the game with Jake is ideal. But starting two guards who can't really create off the dribble seems like a wasted opportunity. I worry about that with good teams like OSU and WI. Where doesn't the guard scoring come from?

A couple of other observations. Don't get too excited about Burton this year. McKay's leaving is certainly his gain, but he is raw. I think he is the perfect kind of guy for Buzz to take to the next level over the years, I just don't know where he fits. To say there was no energy in the place last night would be an understatement, even the Grambling coach seemed disinterested the entire game.

JJJ's shot will be fine. It seems as if some people here are implying he needs to fix/change his shot. Other than a slight "hitch," his shot has good arc and it goes in -- you don't screw with that. He is actually a great shooter. He must have hit 7 threes in a row during shootaround. We sat behind the bench and you could tell he is pressing and just needs to relax and get some confidence. I think he is going to be an unbelievable asset for this team down the road if he can ever learn to play adequate D.

[bilsu]

I'm fine with Derrick out there "not scoring," but we need to have a 2 out there who is a dual threat like Mayo. Jake is a pass it around the horn guy who doesn't ever put the ball on the floor, simply looking to spot up for a 3. Last night's exhibition wasn't the real world. We could have dumped it down to our big  guys every time to score. I mean EVERY TIME. In the real world, our big guys will have resistance. I'm hoping Jake's starting is last year's Juan starting. When we can go small, Mayo in the game with Jake is ideal. But starting two guards who can't really create off the dribble seems like a wasted opportunity. I worry about that with good teams like OSU and WI. Where doesn't the guard scoring come from?

A couple of other observations. Don't get too excited about Burton this year. McKay's leaving is certainly his gain, but he is raw. I think he is the perfect kind of guy for Buzz to take to the next level over the years, I just don't know where he fits. To say there was no energy in the place last night would be an understatement, even the Grambling coach seemed disinterested the entire game.

JJJ's shot will be fine. It seems as if some people here are implying he needs to fix/change his shot. Other than a slight "hitch," his shot has good arc and it goes in -- you don't screw with that. He is actually a great shooter. He must have hit 7 threes in a row during shootaround. We sat behind the bench and you could tell he is pressing and just needs to relax and get some confidence. I think he is going to be an unbelievable asset for this team down the road if he can ever learn to play adequate D.

As I have said many times before Jake is a streak shooter. Once he hit that shot he wanted the ball back. The other team has to cover him, because you never want a streak shooter to get going. I also wonder if JJJ is a streak shooter. He did not score the first game and with 30 minutes gone in the second he had not scored, He hit that three and his whole game changed. He went from not scoring to scoring 12 points in maybe a five minute span. DJO would go off in streaks and other teams had to fear him. I am excited about Burton and I have already stated that he is a stud. There will be bad games, but overall he is going to play a lot this year.

[jesmu84]

I eagerly await for Dawson and Duane to struggle at some point as juniors, and for the Scoop community to call for Nick to come in off the bench.  Our favorite point guards always seem to be the next ones.

Second-string QB syndrome

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Maybe we need to reverse the question:

Is there anything MORE you wanted to see out of Derrick last night?

I mean, he had 10 assists, 5 reb. and only 1 turnover in 20min.

What else do you want to see out of a pass first point guard? If he hit his 2 shots (one just rattled out btw) would everybody suddenly love him? Do you want him to have more points, but less assists? More points and MORE assists?

I'm not really sure what some of you guys want or expect.

[Lighthouse 84]

Maybe we need to reverse the question:

Is there anything MORE you wanted to see out of Derrick last night?

I mean, he had 10 assists, 5 reb. and only 1 turnover in 20min.

What else do you want to see out of a pass first point guard? If he hit his 2 shots (one just rattled out btw) would everybody suddenly love him? Do you want him to have more points, but less assists? More points and MORE assists?

I'm not really sure what some of you guys want or expect.

  He didn't go to the line so it's not applicable to how he played last night, but I want and expect our PG to be able to make free throws at a good clip.  He's going to have the ball at the end of a game and needs to be able to knock them down when he's fouled.  Other than that, you're right.  He played very well.

[MerrittsMustache]

Let's look at it this way...

Last season, Junior Cadougan averaged 8.5 points and 3.8 assists per game. If you count 2 points per assist (which admittedly doesn't account for assists leading to 3s), that means he contributed ~16 ppg, along with 2.5 TO/game.

Is it unreasonable to think that Derrick could, on average, account for 16 points (let's say 4 pts, 6 ast) while also having fewer than 2.5 TO?

[NersEllenson]

Then you are looking at the wrong things.

What do you think coaches look for when they recruit a kid?  Think the "it" factor has anything to do with it? (No pun intended)

I appreciate your in depth analysis and the efficiency ratings, hell, based off of last night, Jake Thomas will be our star this year as he had the highest efficiency rating, right?  We all know Jake isn't going to be a star on this team. 

Dawson has so much more upside than Derrick, it's comical that some simply cannot, or refuse to see that - out of stubbornness.  Derrick looks like a backup PG should...Dawson...what a starter should look like. 

[GGGG]

Dawson has so much more upside than Derrick, it's comical that some simply cannot, or refuse to see that - out of stubbornness.  Derrick looks like a backup PG should...Dawson...what a starter should look like.  

Dawson may have more upside - only time will tell.  But Derrick is the better PG right now.

[MerrittsMustache]

What do you think coaches look for when they recruit a kid?  Think the "it" factor has anything to do with it? (No pun intended)

I appreciate your in depth analysis and the efficiency ratings, hell, based off of last night, Jake Thomas will be our star this year as he had the highest efficiency rating, right?  We all know Jake isn't going to be a star on this team. 

Dawson has so much more upside than Derrick, it's comical that some simply cannot, or refuse to see that - out of stubbornness.  Derrick looks like a backup PG should...Dawson...what a starter should look like. 

JJJ has more upside than Mayo. Should he take Mayo's minutes?

Burton has more upside than Jamil. Should Jamil be on the bench in crunch time?

Duane has more upside than Dawson. Should he immediately become the starter when he's healthy?

Having more upside is not the same thing as being better for the team right now.

[NersEllenson]

I'm not as bullish on Dawson as you are.

I don't think he'll play that much, especially in conference play.

How do you want to measure this, and what are the stakes for a wager?

Minutes played? Points Scored? Blackhearts stats? Henry Sugar's stats?

All of the above...whoever wins the majority of categories...wins bet...if they both win 2 of the categories...call it a push.  $100.

[NersEllenson]

JJJ has more upside than Mayo. Should he take Mayo's minutes?

Burton has more upside than Jamil. Should Jamil be on the bench in crunch time?

Duane has more upside than Dawson. Should he immediately become the starter when he's healthy?

Having more upside is not the same thing as being better for the team right now.

First point - Not sure how you can say Duane has more upside than Dawson...simply based on high school ratings. Buzz himself said Duane had a long way to go....funny he didn't make that comment about Dawson.

As for your other examples - Mayo and Jamil have shown they can produce at this level...at least shown a good number of flashes of being able to produce at this level.  Derrick?  He's shown he can be a quality backup PG...his best performance to this day still was against Jordan Taylor and UW - that was far and away the most impressive thing we've seen from De-Will.  He's a gritty defender, and solid with the ball.  Not a playmaker.  Dawson has playmaking ability, and the athletic tools to be a very good defender...and I'd say better tools now with the knew rules in place with no hand checking.  Derrick's body/physicality are his greatest asset defensively...and that is somewhat mitigated by the new rules.

[brewcity77]

What else do you want to see out of a pass first point guard?

I think the answer to this is simple, Guns. Bench time. The sheeple here don't want a pass first point guard because if the guy doesn't score points, they fail to realize his value. That's why Vander Blue got so much stick his first two years. That's why Davante Gardner has been beloved since he arrived even when he clearly wasn't ready on the defensive end. That's why Trent Lockett was underappreciated. That's why Junior was never a fan favorite when he was here but is suddenly the missing link since he's left.

The only think they want out of a pass first point guard is to not have a pass first point guard. They want all the starters to average double-digit points and to only go out when they go cold from the field. Thank god Buzz doesn't think this way, because when you only pay attention to the individual points scored category in the box score, you forget that there's a whole lot more to winning basketball games.

[Freeport Warrior]

As I have said many times before Jake is a streak shooter. Once he hit that shot he wanted the ball back. The other team has to cover him, because you never want a streak shooter to get going.

It's easy to shut down a streak shooter like Jake if you need to. He doesn't put the ball on the floor, he doesn't drive, he is a one-trick pony IMO. With other guys on the floor who can drive, he can be an asset. But to me, Jake and Derrick together isn't a high-level D1 recipe. Mayo is a scorer. He can be a streak shooter, which then sets up his drives and finishes. Mayo is just as much of a space creater as Jake, with so much more upside.  It's too bad Jake can't play the point. He is a decent passer and plays good D.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

All of the above...whoever wins the majority of categories...wins bet...if they both win 2 of the categories...call it a push.  $100.

Oh yes, absolutely.

- Total Minutes Played (season)
- Total Points Scored (season)
- Player Rating (I believe Sugar or Blackheart track this, right?).
- Total Assists (good PG stat, right?)

I don't know if the mods want monetary bets on the site (feel free to correct me mods).

How about a vacation from scoop? (April 2014-October 2014)

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Dawson has so much more upside than Derrick, it's comical that some simply cannot, or refuse to see that - out of stubbornness.  Derrick looks like a backup PG should...Dawson...what a starter should look like. 

Is it comical if Buzz doesn't see it?

[🏀]

This thread is hilarious to read through if you read all the 'Pro-Dawson' posts in a hilarious thick Chicago accent. Then it all makes sense.

[muwarrior69]

Dawson on offense; DWil on defense ala OX and Otule.

[brandx]

Let's look at it this way...

Last season, Junior Cadougan averaged 8.5 points and 3.8 assists per game. If you count 2 points per assist (which admittedly doesn't account for assists leading to 3s), that means he contributed ~16 ppg, along with 2.5 TO/game.

Is it unreasonable to think that Derrick could, on average, account for 16 points (let's say 4 pts, 6 ast) while also having fewer than 2.5 TO?

Absolutely yes. You are comparing a first-time sophomore starter with a four-year player

[nyg]

Absolutely yes. You are comparing a first-time sophomore starter with a four-year player

Derrick is a junior.

After the OSU game, this thread will go 20 pages.  With these new foul rules, Craft will draw two quick fouls from Derrick, then Dawson.  Then the havoc will set in.  Can't wait to see the PG matchups on Saturday. 

[Pakuni]

And Derrick's TO was on the first play of the game.  As I recall, it was a miscommunication and he threw it out of bounds.

I eagerly await for Dawson and Duane to struggle at some point as juniors, and for the Scoop community to call for Nick to come in off the bench.  Our favorite point guards always seem to be the next ones.

Seriously. It seems the backup PG around here lately is the equivalent of the backup QB in many NFL towns.

[GGGG]

Dawson on offense; DWil on defense ala OX and Otule.

The point to this is that Dawson isn't better than Derrick on the offensive end of the floor.