collapse

* '23-'24 SOTG Tally


2023-24 Season SoG Tally
Kolek11
Ighodaro6
Jones, K.6
Mitchell2
Jones, S.1
Joplin1

'22-23
'21-22 * '20-21 * '19-20
'18-19 * '17-18 * '16-17
'15-16 * '14-15 * '13-14
'12-13 * '11-12 * '10-11

* Big East Standings

Please Register - It's FREE!

The absolute only thing required for this FREE registration is a valid e-mail address.  We keep all your information confidential and will NEVER give or sell it to anyone else.
Login to get rid of this box (and ads) , or register NOW!

* Next up: The long cold summer

Marquette
Marquette

Open Practice

Date/Time: Oct 11, 2024 ???
TV: NA
Schedule for 2023-24
27-10

Author Topic: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)  (Read 6830 times)

PorkysButthole

  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 109
Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« on: December 09, 2021, 12:47:36 AM »
Did anyone else besides Porky catch when the announcer mentioned that Kolek was actually a 2 Guard at George Mason last season, and that this is his first year as a PG?  Most of you probably were aware of this but not Porky.  Even more interesting, the announcer mentioned that Kolek was apparently #2 among all D1 Freshmen in 3PT shooting percentage last year.   Pretty sure that's what Porky heard.

If true, that's pretty impressive so Porky wonders if Kolek's shooting struggles are related to this transition to PG from 2G.  It's a lot easier to wait, catch and shoot than shoot under the duress of handling PG duties for the first time.  Not only is Kolek transitioning from 2G to PG but also from a mid-major to a high major conf.   Porky agrees with the consensus that Kolek's shots should eventually start falling at a better clip, but curious what everyone's thoughts are on this.  Porky Out.

GOO

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1349
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #1 on: December 09, 2021, 03:33:57 AM »
I believe he was essentially a 2 last year. Believe I read that on scoop. I also agree with your other thoughts.  He has a lot to think about and adjust to.

I am not too worried about his three point shooting over time. I look at this like he is a freshman. It is not unusual for freshman to struggle at the high D-1 level with shooting. Unless I misremember, Lazar came into MU as someone who could hit the 3. He struggled early.  Now, I do hope he improves this year instead of it taking a summer to adjust. I think he’ll be okay as I don’t think he has to adjust his form.

Milkshakes

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 587
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #2 on: December 09, 2021, 08:11:24 AM »
The thing that worries me is he sure seems to be way, way up in own head about it. Glad to see him playing hard on defense and still creating but he is passing up or over thinking open looks - or so it seems to me.  That worries me. If he was still launching when he has the open look I would feel better about it.

The Lens

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4939
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2021, 08:23:54 AM »
The amatuer shooting coach in me thinks his shot is a little flat, leaves very little room for error.

THAT BEING SAID: Kolek will be an all-timer at MU.  I do not worry about him at all.  It will come and when it comes, it will be something.  You can't teach the vision and passing he already has.  We have seen shooting guards stuck in PG bodies who are almost afraid to pass bc they have no understanding.  Kolek is the opposite.  Everything he struggles with, can be taught.  He'll be fine great. 
The Teal Train has left the station and Lens is day drinking in the bar car.    ---- Dr. Blackheart

History is so valuable if you have the humility to learn from it.    ---- Shaka Smart

BrewCity83

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3858
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2021, 08:26:59 AM »
Shaka said in last night's post game radio show that Kolek is consistently the team's best 3-point shooter in practice.  It looks to me like he has excellent mechanics, but he might just be rushing his shots a little bit in games.  I agree with the prior comments that he will find his groove and become a really good shooter, and I think it will be soon.
The shaka sign, sometimes known as "hang loose", is a gesture of friendly intent often associated with Hawaii and surf culture.

CTWarrior

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4097
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2021, 08:30:03 AM »
Right now he's not even close to making them, that is what is troubling.  He missed one open 3 "wide left" (may have been "wide right") in the words of the announcer.  When you miss everything left or right on an open three,  you should probably stop taking them for a while, because you don't have it.
Calvin:  I'm a genius.  But I'm a misunderstood genius. 
Hobbes:  What's misunderstood about you?
Calvin:  Nobody thinks I'm a genius.

avid1010

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3519
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2021, 08:39:59 AM »
Shaka said in last night's post game radio show that Kolek is consistently the team's best 3-point shooter in practice.  It looks to me like he has excellent mechanics, but he might just be rushing his shots a little bit in games.  I agree with the prior comments that he will find his groove and become a really good shooter, and I think it will be soon.
Agreed...and Shaka said that his other duties are hurting his shooting.  He just needs to hit a few and get rolling.  He's getting plenty of open shots. 

JakeBarnes

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5591
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2021, 08:41:04 AM »
Agreed...and Shaka said that his other duties are hurting his shooting.  He just needs to hit a few and get rolling.  He's getting plenty of open shots.

Interesting. Is this a conditioning problem? Learning curve?
Assume what I say should be in teal if it doesn't pass the smell test for you.


NCMUFan

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2554
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2021, 08:42:33 AM »
Kolek should probably take the shot if he has time to setup well and release well.
Otherwise, him driving and dishing has been very effective.

To me, Morsell seems to be having major problems just about any time the ball touches his hands.
I don't believe he was in the last 3 minutes of regulation with the game in the balance.

Kolek: 0 Points, 8 Rebounds, 7 Assists, 3 TOs
Morsell: 8 Points, 2 Rebounds, 2 Assists, 4 TOs
« Last Edit: December 09, 2021, 08:49:13 AM by NCMUFan »

Jockey

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2045
  • “We want to get rid of the ballots"
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2021, 08:49:54 AM »
Right now he's not even close to making them, that is what is troubling.  He missed one open 3 "wide left" (may have been "wide right") in the words of the announcer.  When you miss everything left or right on an open three,  you should probably stop taking them for a while, because you don't have it.

Yeah. The shots are not even close to going in. When the ball leaves Kam’s hand, it just looks good. That almost never the case with Kolek. The defense is goading him into shooting. He should never be shooting seven 3s in a game until he gets things figured out.

MUfan12

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5653
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2021, 08:51:37 AM »
I see a guy who is sped up when he shoots. Sloppy hand placement, particularly the guide hand. Leads to a funky release with some sidespin.

Do agree he needs to get some air under it.

Jay Bee

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9079
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2021, 09:17:17 AM »
Even more interesting, the announcer mentioned that Kolek was apparently #2 among all D1 Freshmen in 3PT shooting percentage last year.   Pretty sure that's what Porky heard.

I can assure you this is nowhere near reality. His % as a frosh was solid, but not very good or great.
Thanks for ruining summer, Canada.

JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7807
  • Js for days
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2021, 09:21:59 AM »
I can assure you this is nowhere near reality. His % as a frosh was solid, but not very good or great.

I believe he said he was 2nd in 3P made among freshman last season. 
I would take the Rick SLU program right now.

TSmith34, Inc.

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 5158
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2021, 09:22:17 AM »
The thing that worries me is he sure seems to be way, way up in own head about it. Glad to see him playing hard on defense and still creating but he is passing up or over thinking open looks - or so it seems to me.  That worries me. If he was still launching when he has the open look I would feel better about it.

Last night was pretty much the definition of "still launching". 0-7 does not indicate that was became hesitant to shoot.

The good thing is that his looks were mostly open and he was mostly squared up the basket (unlike the first few games where he was jacking up threes on the move). The bad thing was that he was so off target that the defense was happy for him to take those wide open looks.
If you think for one second that I am comparing the USA to China you have bumped your hard.

BrewCity83

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3858
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2021, 09:29:08 AM »
I see a guy who is sped up when he shoots. Sloppy hand placement, particularly the guide hand. Leads to a funky release with some sidespin.
Do agree he needs to get some air under it.

This is what I see too.  He'll need to either get comfortable with the faster speed he's playing at or slow it down just a tad so he eliminates the sloppiness.
The shaka sign, sometimes known as "hang loose", is a gesture of friendly intent often associated with Hawaii and surf culture.

lawdog77

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2557
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #15 on: December 09, 2021, 09:31:53 AM »
I believe he said he was 2nd in 3P made among freshman last season.
Nothing against Tyler, but I dont believe that stat. My limited search shows he made 53  3pt shots, that is not even in the Top 100 overall, so I am assuming there was more than one freshman making that many. Too lazy to look at all of the names
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/statistics/player/_/stat/3-points/sort/threePointFieldGoalsMade/year/2021/count/81

JamilJaeJamailJrJuan

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 7807
  • Js for days
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #16 on: December 09, 2021, 09:33:10 AM »
Nothing against Tyler, but I dont believe that stat. My limited search shows he made 53  3pt shots, that is not even in the Top 100 overall, so I am assuming there was more than one freshman making that many. Too lazy to look at all of the names
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/statistics/player/_/stat/3-points/sort/threePointFieldGoalsMade/year/2021/count/81

Don't blame ya.  I am just restating what was said on the telecast.  Zero idea of its accuracy. 
I would take the Rick SLU program right now.

OffTheGlass

  • Scholarship Player
  • **
  • Posts: 63
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #17 on: December 09, 2021, 09:44:43 AM »
Kolek should probably take the shot if he has time to setup well and release well.
Otherwise, him driving and dishing has been very effective.

To me, Morsell seems to be having major problems just about any time the ball touches his hands.
I don't believe he was in the last 3 minutes of regulation with the game in the balance.

Kolek: 0 Points, 8 Rebounds, 7 Assists, 3 TOs
Morsell: 8 Points, 2 Rebounds, 2 Assists, 4 TOs

Great point about Morsell!!!

He is absolutely killing us offensively. While Kolek may not be hitting his shots right now, at least he's finding the open guy.
Morsell was 3/13 from the field and 2/9 from 3's, with only 2 assists. The fact of the matter is that he does nothing when the ball is in his hands. The offense stands around watching and waiting while he either jacks up a brick or has an unforced turnover.

I could be mistaken but I think Shaka took him out in the final minute or two. Stevie was also not in the game either, which I credit Coach recognizing that these guys either need to protect the ball or ride the bench when the game is on the line.

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 23846
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #18 on: December 09, 2021, 09:58:37 AM »
Correct.   Kam, Kolek, Greg.   
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Uncle Rico

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10098
    • Mazos Hamburgers
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #19 on: December 09, 2021, 10:00:38 AM »
He reminds me of Travis Diener
Ramsey head thoroughly up his ass.

MUBurrow

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1411
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #20 on: December 09, 2021, 10:09:32 AM »
I'm somewhere between -1.0% and 0% worried about Kolek's shots not falling.  He is, at a minimum, a good enough shooter to keep defenses honest and that's what I care about most. 

Illinois: 5 assists to 2 turnovers
Ole Miss: 6 assists to 2 turnovers
WVU: 8 assists to 5 turnovers
St Bonaventure: 0 assists to 2 turnovers
Wisconsin: 8 assists to 2 turnovers
KState:  7 assists to 3 turnovers

If Kolek gets out of a game with 7-8 assists and 2 turnovers, I like our chances to win.

mileskishnish72

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4553
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #21 on: December 09, 2021, 10:11:18 AM »
Re: Kolek, I think it's in his head. He nailed some nice 3's in earlier games with a smooth, relatively quick shot. I'm open, bing! Lately he seems to be releasing it in a more studied fashion, and trying to steer it. And he hasn't been off just a smidge, he's been way off.

As for Morsell, one wonders if he's focused on showcasing his offense to increase his appeal to scouts rather than respecting the process.

avid1010

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3519
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #22 on: December 09, 2021, 10:17:31 AM »
He reminds me of Travis Diener
I happen to think he's a little bit past TD at this point in his career. 

In all seriousness...he seems like a great kid...and Shaka commented on his solid defense last night.  I love Morsell as well...but his play and body language was extremely poor last night.  The one thing that should always be there is hustle and defense...I wouldn't have thought that would be an issue for him.  Shaka made the right call in sitting him down. 

How about sticking Kam at the line at the end...If I were going to criticize Shaka for anything last night...he got that wrong purely from a results standpoint.  I fully understand he was clutch in the moments prior...good learning experience. 

barfolomew

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1599
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #23 on: December 09, 2021, 10:45:34 AM »
0-7 from three.
0-7 from the field overall, zero points.

Still flirts with double double.
Still talks smack to the upper deck of the octagon as game ends.

Relationes Incrementum Victoria

avid1010

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3519
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #24 on: December 09, 2021, 10:46:19 AM »
I'm somewhere between -1.0% and 0% worried about Kolek's shots not falling.  He is, at a minimum, a good enough shooter to keep defenses honest and that's what I care about most. 

Illinois: 5 assists to 2 turnovers
Ole Miss: 6 assists to 2 turnovers
WVU: 8 assists to 5 turnovers
St Bonaventure: 0 assists to 2 turnovers
Wisconsin: 8 assists to 2 turnovers
KState:  7 assists to 3 turnovers

If Kolek gets out of a game with 7-8 assists and 2 turnovers, I like our chances to win.
Agreed, and Shaka got the team to make the right passes last night.  They had a few turnovers trying to feed the corner three off the drive early in the game...when they started looking to wing knowing K-State was cheating to the corner...we were money.  Loved the adjustment...just never saw that type of thing under Wojo. 

TAMU, Knower of Ball

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22193
  • Meat Eater certified
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #25 on: December 09, 2021, 10:50:11 AM »
I find the dichotomy between how Scoop has reacted to Koleks shooting slump this year to how Scoop reacted to Cartons shooting slump last year to be fascinating. I see a lot of "he was a great shooter last season, keep shooting,  they will fall eventually". My recollection with Carton was that there was a lot more of telling him not to shoot anymore even though Carton shot a better 3P% the previous season (on fewer attempts) and his slump wasn't any worse than koleks
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


goldeneagle91114

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 862
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #26 on: December 09, 2021, 10:56:35 AM »
Kolek should probably take the shot if he has time to setup well and release well.
Otherwise, him driving and dishing has been very effective.

To me, Morsell seems to be having major problems just about any time the ball touches his hands.
I don't believe he was in the last 3 minutes of regulation with the game in the balance.

Kolek: 0 Points, 8 Rebounds, 7 Assists, 3 TOs
Morsell: 8 Points, 2 Rebounds, 2 Assists, 4 TOs

Nothing has ever been officially stated, but a few different people on Scoop have noticed a significant limp. I believe he's banged up and just trying to play through it. I don't know if Shaka just needs to shut him down for a game or 2, but he is going to be strongly needed if we stand any chance in BEAST play.

forgetful

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 4775
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2021, 11:18:04 AM »
I think there are a lot of contributions to his problems shooting the ball right now, and many of them are also contributing problems to other shooters on the team.

1. Kolek is transitioning from a spot up shooter, to the man running the offense. An example would be Markus Howard, who shot 55% from 3 (on 4.8 attempt) his freshman year, when he was also getting to take many spot up shots as that is what his role dictated. When he had to handle the ball, the offense, and seek out his own shot the rest of his career, he was still an amazing shooter, but at a 40% clip not 55%. Kolek's slump/decrease in shooting efficiency is not unexpected.

2. We play a very aggressive system predicated on playing at a violent pace. This can be very effective in getting other teams uncomfortable, where they are unable to slow themselves down when needed. The problem is, that ability comes with practice. None of our guys have that practice right now, so they are also struggling with controlling their mental and physical pace on offense. Shooting/passing needs to be controlled, not violent. As the players, and Kolek (even harder when you are dictating the pace), get more accustomed to the system, they will play with still play physically violent, but their inner mental pace will be calmer/slower and shots will start falling.

3. They are all new to the system, and each other. They are all trying to find their roles. It will take time, but when they find those roles they will be far more efficient.

We just need to RELAX, and roll with the punches for now.
« Last Edit: December 09, 2021, 11:22:39 AM by forgetful »

tower912

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 23846
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2021, 11:27:39 AM »
0-7 from three.
0-7 from the field overall, zero points.

Still flirts with double double.
Still talks smack to the upper deck of the octagon as game ends.

Yup yup. 
Luke 6:45   ...A good man produces goodness from the good in his heart; an evil man produces evil out of his store of evil.   Each man speaks from his heart's abundance...

It is better to be fearless and cheerful than cheerless and fearful.

Dr. Blackheart

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 13061
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #29 on: December 09, 2021, 11:30:29 AM »
Nothing has ever been officially stated, but a few different people on Scoop have noticed a significant limp. I believe he's banged up and just trying to play through it. I don't know if Shaka just needs to shut him down for a game or 2, but he is going to be strongly needed if we stand any chance in BEAST play.

Groin pull

NCMUFan

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2554
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #30 on: December 09, 2021, 11:42:38 AM »
Coach's call whether Morsell should be in the game or a different player will produce better results.
We won, so I guess it was the right call not having Morsell in with two minutes to go.

21Jumpstreet

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 1337
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #31 on: December 09, 2021, 11:51:20 AM »
Interesting. Is this a conditioning problem? Learning curve?

This is my thought. Being the PG is work, physically and mentally, on both ends of the court. I felt this way about Carton last year. As his fitness improves and his ability to manage the point so will his shot. Kolek is a gamer.


Stretchdeltsig

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3203
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #33 on: December 09, 2021, 12:18:23 PM »
He reminds me of Travis Diener

Right. Corner playing left handed with a broken arm. Travis could always shoot.

TheGym

  • Registered User
  • Starter
  • ***
  • Posts: 234
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #34 on: December 09, 2021, 12:27:56 PM »
A quick review of the NCAA website has him at #7 Freshman in 3pts made and did not qualify in the % category because he did not make 2.5 per game played.

And no, he is no Travis Diener.  I think the consensus at then end of his career will be he was very average.  Just my prediction.  I hope I am wrong.

Shooter McGavin

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2724
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #35 on: December 09, 2021, 03:34:14 PM »
0-7 from three.
0-7 from the field overall, zero points.

Still flirts with double double.
Still talks smack to the upper deck of the octagon as game ends.

The last part is why you don’t give up on this guy.  Love the attitude.  Would love to have him be our JP Macura.  Keep shooting Tyler!

BCHoopster

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3231
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #36 on: December 09, 2021, 05:01:37 PM »
I see a guy who is sped up when he shoots. Sloppy hand placement, particularly the guide hand. Leads to a funky release with some sidespin.

Do agree he needs to get some air under it.


Totally agree, poor form, needs to get better placement on top of the ball. Shoots a flat knuckleball with wrong spin.  I am totally shocked that his coaches have not changed his shot, until that happens he will have games like that. As a point guard which I played You get easier shots then a 2 guard.  Most of his shots are not even close.  I do not care what division in college he is, he gets open shots and basically misses.

Lennys Tap

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12314
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #37 on: December 09, 2021, 06:31:52 PM »
I find the dichotomy between how Scoop has reacted to Koleks shooting slump this year to how Scoop reacted to Cartons shooting slump last year to be fascinating. I see a lot of "he was a great shooter last season, keep shooting,  they will fall eventually". My recollection with Carton was that there was a lot more of telling him not to shoot anymore even though Carton shot a better 3P% the previous season (on fewer attempts) and his slump wasn't any worse than koleks

Kolek arrived with a history as a solid shooter (not a “great” shooter - whoever is asserting that is factually wrong) based on a legit sample size. That rep and sample size mean a longer leash re 3s. Carton arrived with the history as an uber athletic PG who rarely shot 3s because his real strengths were elsewhere. Why shoot 3s when it became clear that he was a good slasher but a poor shooter? So when he started launching (and missing) it’s not surprising people wanted him to play more to his strengths.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22193
  • Meat Eater certified
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #38 on: December 09, 2021, 10:59:53 PM »
Kolek arrived with a history as a solid shooter (not a “great” shooter - whoever is asserting that is factually wrong) based on a legit sample size. That rep and sample size mean a longer leash re 3s. Carton arrived with the history as an uber athletic PG who rarely shot 3s because his real strengths were elsewhere. Why shoot 3s when it became clear that he was a good slasher but a poor shooter? So when he started launching (and missing) it’s not surprising people wanted him to play more to his strengths.

...Carton shot 40% from 3, averaged 1.2 3P makes a game, and 3.0 3P attempts a game as a freshman (in only 23.9 minutes a game) and was known as a good shooter in high school. He was not known as a PG "who rarely shot 3s" and a "poor shooter" when he arrived Marquette.
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22969
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #39 on: December 09, 2021, 11:41:29 PM »
I find the dichotomy between how Scoop has reacted to Koleks shooting slump this year to how Scoop reacted to Cartons shooting slump last year to be fascinating. I see a lot of "he was a great shooter last season, keep shooting,  they will fall eventually". My recollection with Carton was that there was a lot more of telling him not to shoot anymore even though Carton shot a better 3P% the previous season (on fewer attempts) and his slump wasn't any worse than koleks

DJ = Wojo.

Kolek = Shaka.

Duh!

I'm hopeful Kolek will work out of this slump, if that's what it is. He hasn't let it affect the other parts of his game, which sounds like it would be easy to do but it's not. And I have little doubt that Shaka has told him to keep shooting when open. He's gonna have a fine career but I'll hold off on the Diener comparisons until I see him carry us to victory in an NCAA tournament game.

I'm more concerned (if that's the right word) about Morsell. Talk about a reversion to mean. Look at Darryl's stats in 4 years -- not games, but YEARS -- at Maryland and his stats these last 6 games. Very similar ... except even less efficient this season. Not sure what happened to the first-4-games Darryl Morsell, but I miss him!
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Dr. Blackheart

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 13061
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #40 on: December 10, 2021, 08:27:07 AM »
I find the dichotomy between how Scoop has reacted to Koleks shooting slump this year to how Scoop reacted to Cartons shooting slump last year to be fascinating. I see a lot of "he was a great shooter last season, keep shooting,  they will fall eventually". My recollection with Carton was that there was a lot more of telling him not to shoot anymore even though Carton shot a better 3P% the previous season (on fewer attempts) and his slump wasn't any worse than koleks

If DJ bought in, he'd be the starting PG this year at MU. As it is, he hasn't been doing much in Greensboro.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22969
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #41 on: December 10, 2021, 08:34:08 AM »
If DJ bought in, he'd be the starting PG this year at MU. As it is, he hasn't been doing much in Greensboro.

DJ had tremendous potential, and under Shaka he very well might have been our best player and an all-conference guy.

But for our situation, I'm actually glad DJ decided to leave because we would have gotten one more year out of him, tops. Kolek gets to play and improve here for 3-4 years. He already does a lot of things well; in a year or two, he actually might earn comparisons to some stars from the past.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Lennys Tap

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12314
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #42 on: December 10, 2021, 10:04:46 AM »
...Carton shot 40% from 3, averaged 1.2 3P makes a game, and 3.0 3P attempts a game as a freshman (in only 23.9 minutes a game) and was known as a good shooter in high school. He was not known as a PG "who rarely shot 3s" and a "poor shooter" when he arrived Marquette.

Whether or not he was “known as a good shooter in high school” is beside the point. He had a good % in a small sample size and a lousy % (28.2%) the following year in a sample size almost 3x larger. Which is more meaningful? I’d say the latter.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22193
  • Meat Eater certified
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #43 on: December 10, 2021, 10:17:38 AM »
Whether or not he was “known as a good shooter in high school” is beside the point. He had a good % in a small sample size and a lousy % (28.2%) the following year in a sample size almost 3x larger. Which is more meaningful? I’d say the latter.

Except the conversation we're having is about how Scoop reacted to Carton's shooting slump early in the season vs. Kolek's, so the sample size we are talking about isn't all of last season but the first few games of last season.
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


Pakuni

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10033
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #44 on: December 10, 2021, 11:54:00 AM »
If DJ bought in, he'd be the starting PG this year at MU. As it is, he hasn't been doing much in Greensboro.

But he will earn up to $85K in Greensboro, which may be more important than being the starting PG for a college team.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22969
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #45 on: December 10, 2021, 12:05:02 PM »
In 7 G League games, Carton is shooting 37% from the floor, including 23% from 3-point range. He's averaging 2.1 assists and 0.9 turnovers, a 2.33 A/TO ratio).

In 10 games for Marquette, Kolek is shooting 28% from the floor, including 22% from 3-point range. He's averaging 5.5 assists and 2.7 turnovers, a 2.04 A/TO ratio.

Those are simply stats. I'm not "concluding" anything from them.

My opinion is that DJ would have excelled on this team playing with these teammates and in Shaka's system. But as I said, long-term, Kolek will provide far more value to the program because he's likely to be around much longer.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

BrewCity83

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3858
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #46 on: December 10, 2021, 01:36:35 PM »
But he will earn up to $85K in Greensboro, which may be more important than being the starting PG for a college team.

Soooooo......he's making about 1/7 of what he could've made had he stayed in college and transferred to UNC?
The shaka sign, sometimes known as "hang loose", is a gesture of friendly intent often associated with Hawaii and surf culture.

Lennys Tap

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12314
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #47 on: December 10, 2021, 02:46:17 PM »
Except the conversation we're having is about how Scoop reacted to Carton's shooting slump early in the season vs. Kolek's, so the sample size we are talking about isn't all of last season but the first few games of last season.

Maybe a conversation would be easier if you were a little less vague. What actually was “Scoop’s” reaction? When exactly did Scoop start reacting? IOW, source please. If people criticized Carton for taking too many 3s early in the season all we can say is that they proved prescient. By season’s end, DJ led the team in attempts despite the fact that his “make %” among the starters was (by a good margin) the worst. That seems like a demonstrably flawed strategy. When teams underperform as badly as last year’s team did those flaws are magnified.

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22969
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #48 on: December 10, 2021, 02:54:57 PM »
Maybe a conversation would be easier if you were a little less vague. What actually was “Scoop’s” reaction? When exactly did Scoop start reacting? IOW, source please. If people criticized Carton for taking too many 3s early in the season all we can say is that they proved prescient. By season’s end, DJ led the team in attempts despite the fact that his “make %” among the starters was (by a good margin) the worst. That seems like a demonstrably flawed strategy. When teams underperform as badly as last year’s team did those flaws are magnified.

OK. By the same standards, Kolek is taking waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many 3s.

But his coach has told him to keep shooting 'em -- just as DJ's coach did. Perhaps demonstrably flawed strategies on everybody's part!

FWIW ... I agree with Shaka that Kolek needs to shoot when he's wide open, even if he's missed 5 in a row. Generally speaking. If we need a 3 and he's been ice cold and has absolutely no confidence, he needs to drive and find the hot hand. But for the most part -- say, 9 minutes into the game or 3 minutes into the second half -- I want him to shoot if he's open. I wanted DJ to shoot in those situations, too.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Lennys Tap

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 12314
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #49 on: December 10, 2021, 03:17:30 PM »
OK. By the same standards, Kolek is taking waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too many 3s.

But his coach has told him to keep shooting 'em -- just as DJ's coach did. Perhaps demonstrably flawed strategies on everybody's part!

FWIW ... I agree with Shaka that Kolek needs to shoot when he's wide open, even if he's missed 5 in a row. Generally speaking. If we need a 3 and he's been ice cold and has absolutely no confidence, he needs to drive and find the hot hand. But for the most part -- say, 9 minutes into the game or 3 minutes into the second half -- I want him to shoot if he's open. I wanted DJ to shoot in those situations, too.

If, at the end of the season, Kolek leads the team in 3 point attempts and his % of makes is far worse than everyone else in the starting lineup you’ll have a point.

Until then, I’ll trust Shaka to make adjustments as he sees fit - something he looks pretty good at so far and something that was never our previous coach’s strong point.

TAMU, Knower of Ball

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22193
  • Meat Eater certified
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #50 on: December 10, 2021, 03:30:52 PM »
Maybe a conversation would be easier if you were a little less vague. What actually was “Scoop’s” reaction? When exactly did Scoop start reacting? IOW, source please.

Lenny I said it all in the post  you originally responded to

I find the dichotomy between how Scoop has reacted to Koleks shooting slump this year to how Scoop reacted to Cartons shooting slump last year to be fascinating. I see a lot of "he was a great shooter last season, keep shooting,  they will fall eventually". My recollection with Carton was that there was a lot more of telling him not to shoot anymore even though Carton shot a better 3P% the previous season (on fewer attempts) and his slump wasn't any worse than koleks

If people criticized Carton for taking too many 3s early in the season all we can say is that they proved prescient. By season’s end, DJ led the team in attempts despite the fact that his “make %” among the starters was (by a good margin) the worst. That seems like a demonstrably flawed strategy. When teams underperform as badly as last year’s team did those flaws are magnified.

They were prescient. I never said they weren't. I never said anything about my opinion of whether or not DJ Carton should have kept shooting or if it was good strategy.

If, at the end of the season, Kolek leads the team in 3 point attempts and his % of makes is far worse than everyone else in the starting lineup you’ll have a point.

Until then, I’ll trust Shaka to make adjustments as he sees fit - something he looks pretty good at so far and something that was never our previous coach’s strong point.

Again Lenny, I didn't say anything about whether or not Kolek should keep shooting or anything about not trusting Shaka to make adjustments. You have turned an off handed comment about me comparing pessimistic Scoop to optimistic Scoop (I prefer optimistic Scoop BTW) into a giant strawman
TAMU

I do know, Newsie is right on you knowing ball.


Pakuni

  • Registered User
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10033
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #51 on: December 10, 2021, 04:04:11 PM »
Soooooo......he's making about 1/7 of what he could've made had he stayed in college and transferred to UNC?

The average UNC player is making $500k? Source?

MU82

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 22969
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #52 on: December 10, 2021, 04:11:08 PM »
If, at the end of the season, Kolek leads the team in 3 point attempts and his % of makes is far worse than everyone else in the starting lineup you’ll have a point.

Until then, I’ll trust Shaka to make adjustments as he sees fit - something he looks pretty good at so far and something that was never our previous coach’s strong point.

Sure, to all of that. We'll see.

Of course, like most Scoop debates about hypothetical situations, "we'll see" rarely satisfies.

I hope Kolek improves his shooting. I wish Carton nothing but success as a pro.
“It’s not how white men fight.” - Tucker Carlson

Goose

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 10571
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #53 on: December 10, 2021, 05:01:23 PM »
I hope he keeps firing up the shots. When he turns things around it will make more dangerous. I cannot believe he can continue to shot this poorly.

Jockey

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 2045
  • “We want to get rid of the ballots"
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #54 on: December 10, 2021, 05:15:48 PM »
Goose,

Not sure that I agree. We need him to make some of those wide open 3s, but right now I am going by the eye test. His shot is awful. They look off from the time the ball leaves his hand. Throw out the WVU game and he is 6-38. I don't want that guy shooting 3s until he figures things out.

You watch Kam and it is the opposite - every shot looks good leaving his hand. Same with Lewis even though he is not as good as Kam at 3s. Run more screens to get shots for Kam, Greg, Joplin, Lewis, etc. For now, let Kolek make the pass - not take the shot.

rocky_warrior

  • Global Moderator
  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 9138
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #55 on: December 10, 2021, 06:30:00 PM »
The average UNC player is making $500k? Source?

Our very own Billy is the source, dammit!
https://www.muscoop.com/index.php?topic=62353.msg1383822#msg1383822

BrewCity83

  • All American
  • *****
  • Posts: 3858
Re: Kolek's Shooting % (or lack thereof)
« Reply #56 on: December 10, 2021, 06:36:08 PM »
The shaka sign, sometimes known as "hang loose", is a gesture of friendly intent often associated with Hawaii and surf culture.

 

feedback