Definitive guide to the goold old days

[ChicosBailBonds]

Survey data from Marist

http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/misc/usapolls/us090421/Raising%20Children/Raising%20Children%20Now_Harder_Easier_or%20No%20Difference%20from%20Previous%20Generations.htm

[GGGG]

Of course, but context is important.   Turn that crazy rock and roll stuff off or stop watching Elvis shake his hips on Ed Sullivan is a litter different than the lyrics of today. 

Gangsta rap isn't the "lyrics of today."  They are the lyrics of 15-20 years ago.  And the lyrics of some of the 60s and 70s stuff was bad.  Most of the lyrics of today is pretty tame stuff.

Honestly I think you must be a 80 year old woman.

[GGGG]

Survey data from Marist

http://maristpoll.marist.edu/wp-content/misc/usapolls/us090421/Raising%20Children/Raising%20Children%20Now_Harder_Easier_or%20No%20Difference%20from%20Previous%20Generations.htm

Every generation thinks this.  Not really earth shattering stuff there.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Gangsta rap isn't the "lyrics of today."  They are the lyrics of 15-20 years ago.  And the lyrics of some of the 60s and 70s stuff was bad.  Most of the lyrics of today is pretty tame stuff.

Honestly I think you must be a 80 year old woman.

I'll ask again, why are their lyrics ratings now and there weren't when Elvis was shaking his pelvis?

As for "gangsta rap isn't the lyrics of today".....are you saying it isn't around.  15-20 years ago you say.  Hmm, interesting.

Please provide some of the lyrics of the 1960's and 70's that "was bad" that in ANY WAY parallels what is out there today.  I'd like to see that.  Lyric ratings were put in place in the mid 1980's....those bad 1960's &  1970's lyrics must have been missed apparently.

U.O.E.N.O is currently #27 on the charts....pro rape song.  Reebok had to drop Rick Ross as a result.  Oh, #27 in the July 20th 2013 charts, not the 1995 charts....this week's chart. 

Hardly an 80 year old woman, I just recognize things are more challenging today then they were in the past.  Does that recognition or admission make me an 80 year old woman?  What does sticking your head in the sand and trying to compare it to the past as an equivalency make someone, especially when the equivalency isn't there? 

[ChicosBailBonds]

Every generation thinks this.  Not really earth shattering stuff there.

Really....actually every generation typically thinks how hard it was "back in their day".  Have you never heard the phrase "you kids have it so easy today".   I guess that kind of neutralizes the "every generation thinks this".  LOL

I happen to think the elders of a society have a lot to teach us, could be my Asian studies background where elders are held in higher esteem.  When they speak, I listen. 

[ATL MU Warrior]

I'll ask again, why are their lyrics ratings now and there weren't when Elvis was shaking his pelvis?

As for "gangsta rap isn't the lyrics of today".....are you saying it isn't around.  15-20 years ago you say.  Hmm, interesting.

Please provide some of the lyrics of the 1960's and 70's that "was bad" that in ANY WAY parallels what is out there today.  I'd like to see that.  Lyric ratings were put in place in the mid 1980's....those bad 1960's &  1970's lyrics must have been missed apparently.

Why don't you post some of the lyrics and song titles that you find so offensive so we can see what the heck you are talking about and be done with it.  I have a good idea why you won't.

[GGGG]

I'll ask again, why are their lyrics ratings now and there weren't when Elvis was shaking his pelvis?

Because of chicken littles like you.

As for "gangsta rap isn't the lyrics of today".....are you saying it isn't around.  15-20 years ago you say.  Hmm, interesting.

It may be around, but is hardly mainstream.  It never really was actually.

Please provide some of the lyrics of the 1960's and 70's that "was bad" that in ANY WAY parallels what is out there today.  I'd like to see that.  Lyric ratings were put in place in the mid 1980's....those bad 1960's &  1970's lyrics must have been missed apparently.

Really?  There were all sorts of anti-establishment songs back then that talked about revolution, etc.  I mean I'm sure I can find some fringe song because that is kind of what you are focusing on right now.

[GGGG]

Really....actually every generation typically thinks how hard it was "back in their day".  Have you never heard the phrase "you kids have it so easy today".   I guess that kind of neutralizes the "every generation thinks this".  LOL

No..not really.

I happen to think the elders of a society have a lot to teach us, could be my Asian studies background where elders are held in higher esteem.  When they speak, I listen. 

Agreed.  Of course they aren't all knowing...

[Jay Bee]

I'll ask again, why are their lyrics ratings now and there weren't when Elvis was shaking his pelvis?

As for "gangsta rap isn't the lyrics of today".....are you saying it isn't around.  15-20 years ago you say.  Hmm, interesting.

Ask Tipper Gore. She flipped over a Prince LP nearly 30 years ago and then went after rap music. 2 Live Crew in '86 had such hits as "We Want Some P****" and "Throw the 'D'". More than 25 years ago a record store employee was charged with a felony for selling a kid a 2 Live Crew record.

"F*ck tha Police" by NWA is 25 years old.

Ice T's weirdo Body Count group had "Cop Killer"... that was more than 20 years ago.

More than 25 years ago Too Short was on wax asking Ronald Reagan about cocaine sales in the White House and telling the President about explicit sex acts that Nancy performed on him.

25 years ago Willie Dee was rhyming about... very naughty things.

Just because you may have not been listening to it doesn't mean "raunchy" lyrics weren't around long before the current day.

[GGGG]

U.O.E.N.O is currently #27 on the charts....pro rape song.  Reebok had to drop Rick Ross as a result.  Oh, #27 in the July 20th 2013 charts, not the 1995 charts....this week's chart.

If that is a pro-rape song, then 5 to 1 by the Doors is a pro overthrow the government song.  Christ...

[GGGG]

Ask Tipper Gore. She flipped over a Prince LP nearly 30 years ago and then went after rap music. 2 Live Crew in '86 had such hits as "We Want Some P****" and "Throw the 'D'". More than 25 years ago a record store employee was charged with a felony for selling a kid a 2 Live Crew record.

"F*ck tha Police" by NWA is 25 years old.

Ice T's weirdo Body Count group had "Cop Killer"... that was more than 20 years ago.

More than 25 years ago Too Short was on wax asking Ronald Reagan about cocaine sales in the White House and telling the President about explicit sex acts that Nancy performed on him.

25 years ago Willie Dee was rhyming about... very naughty things.

Just because you may have not been listening to it doesn't mean "raunchy" lyrics weren't around long before the current day.

Jay Bee...please don't tell me you were actually listening to this stuff.  How did you manage to not kill cops, do drugs and conduct general mayhem?

[keefe]

Jay Bee...please don't tell me you were actually listening to this stuff.  How did you manage to not kill cops, do drugs and conduct general mayhem?

2 out of 3 ain't bad

[ChicosBailBonds]

I think some of you are mixing up what was said about today and actions taken.  It's not as if my kids can't listen to music, can't watch rated R movies, can't play M games on PS3 or XBox or whatever.  All I said is today is a lot harder to raise kids than it was back then and there are many more influences that are troublesome than back then.

When people try to make Elvis pelvis examples as some how on the same level as the stuff in the last 20 years, I can only call it laughable.  All that being said, you can't wrap your kids up in pillows and ear plugs and hide them in the basement, nor is anyone suggesting that.  But people that have seen the times change are right, it's a lot harder today and more complicated due to technology, family breakdown, entertainment, moral softening, lack of discipline in schools, relaxed laws, etc. 

[forgetful]

Ask Tipper Gore. She flipped over a Prince LP nearly 30 years ago and then went after rap music. 2 Live Crew in '86 had such hits as "We Want Some P****" and "Throw the 'D'". More than 25 years ago a record store employee was charged with a felony for selling a kid a 2 Live Crew record.

"F*ck tha Police" by NWA is 25 years old.

Ice T's weirdo Body Count group had "Cop Killer"... that was more than 20 years ago.

More than 25 years ago Too Short was on wax asking Ronald Reagan about cocaine sales in the White House and telling the President about explicit sex acts that Nancy performed on him.

25 years ago Willie Dee was rhyming about... very naughty things.

Just because you may have not been listening to it doesn't mean "raunchy" lyrics weren't around long before the current day.

Yes these lyrics were around 25 years ago.  A big difference I see in music is the blatant sexuality in music targeted at 9-18 year olds.  Think Brittany.  Best example of the top of my head is Brittany Spears 3.  About threesomes.  Or blatant drug and alcohol/drug use (Kesha, Amy Winehouse...others).  These are songs on the top 40.  A difference from the past.

Admittedly, there were vague references to sex/drugs in some songs a ways back, but it is more blatant today.  This started in the mid 90's, shortly after the above songs.

I'm not worried about lyrics though, frankly that should be the least of anyones worries.  More troublesome is changes in culture.  Those saying that this is not going on are either trying to poke chico's or are frankly ignorant of changing attitudes/culture in youth.  You are right that over the years generations have said the same about their kids, but it is largely warranted.

Youth in the late 60's/70's were chastised for drug use (marijuana/LSD) and a lack of respect for authority...Guess what that was a valid change in culture.  The changing dynamics continued in the 80's but was more focused in the inner cities and a youth movement (led to big changes in clothing/culture...think skater culture).  They were chastised for no respect for elders (this was true) and concerns over drugs (cocaine) again a valid issue as cocaine use skyrocketed.  Note the issues are a trend and continued to get worse.  The 90's, were a direct extension of the 80's...urbanization of culture...the skater scene grew into the grunge seen...urban culture shifted from traditional rap (Run DMC) to gangstar rap (NWA).  Led to a further separation from authority and more promotion of violence as an acceptable culture aspect.  The 2000's heavily promoted the party/wealth/sex culture.

It has been a general worsening trend.  Largely resulting from a breakdown in the traditional family/neighborhood.  By traditional family, I mean one that had parents around often.  Society now requires a two person income and often individuals working 60 hours a week (between the office and home).  This has led to absentee parenting, where an individual overcompensates by providing kids with more (money, freedom, stuff) and supporting them as always good kids (not their fault, my kids a good kid).  If you work with youth today, you'll see the effect of this.  Educators that have worked with kids for 40 years complain of this trend in parent/kids and the lack of individual responsibility in the youth today.

The breakdown in family/neighborhood has also led to environments being less safe.  The neighborhood as a whole used to keep an eye on youth.  Today, most don't even know their neighbors names.  An additional aspect of the decrease in safety is the use of weapons.  Fights used to involve fists (maybe knives), now guns are the weapon of choice leading to increased violence as guns can provide a sense of false power and security (whereas a threat of a fight--balanced encounter would decrease the likelihood of some encounters).

Again, denying these trends as a "blindness because all generations say this" is a shortsighted and lazy argument and denies a critical analysis of the issues at hand. 

[GGGG]

Again, denying these trends as a "blindness because all generations say this" is a shortsighted and lazy argument and denies a critical analysis of the issues at hand. 

Right...because you have a real keen eye for the issues at hand while the rest of us are just "lazy."  GMAFB.

[forgetful]

Right...because you have a real keen eye for the issues at hand while the rest of us are just "lazy."  GMAFB.

Typical, no actual commentary, rather just insult.  I provided insight as to why each generation says the same thing, because it is rooted in fact.

The arguments others are using would be the equivalent of every generation saying prices go up.  Well clearly every generation says it so it must be completely false...alternatively it is true and part of a trend...a little thing called inflation.

Also, I likely spend more time with the youth than you have...so yes I likely have more of a keen eye for the issues at hand than you do.

[4everwarriors]

Ask Tipper Gore. She flipped over a Prince LP nearly 30 years ago and then went after rap music. 2 Live Crew in '86 had such hits as "We Want Some P****" and "Throw the 'D'". More than 25 years ago a record store employee was charged with a felony for selling a kid a 2 Live Crew record.

"F*ck tha Police" by NWA is 25 years old.

Ice T's weirdo Body Count group had "Cop Killer"... that was more than 20 years ago.

More than 25 years ago Too Short was on wax asking Ronald Reagan about cocaine sales in the White House and telling the President about explicit sex acts that Nancy performed on him.


Not to mention Andrew Dice Clay and his nursery rhymes, hey?

25 years ago Willie Dee was rhyming about... very naughty things.

Just because you may have not been listening to it doesn't mean "raunchy" lyrics weren't around long before the current day.

[GGGG]

Typical, no actual commentary, rather just insult.  I provided insight as to why each generation says the same thing, because it is rooted in fact.

The arguments others are using would be the equivalent of every generation saying prices go up.  Well clearly every generation says it so it must be completely false...alternatively it is true and part of a trend...a little thing called inflation.

Also, I likely spend more time with the youth than you have...so yes I likely have more of a keen eye for the issues at hand than you do.

I'm going to ignore the last statement because I think it's funny.

Look, parenthood is about getting your kids to adulthood and to be productive members of society.  The stuff we are talking about are just things that we worry can knock them off that path.  IMO, this challenge is really no different, and not really all that much harder, than it was for my parents...or their parents...or my ancestors from Austria who wanted to make sure little Wolfgang didn't catch the Plague, get hopped up on mead, or fall under the wicked spell of Marta the Harlot.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I think some of you are mixing up what was said about today and actions taken.  It's not as if my kids can't listen to music, can't watch rated R movies, can't play M games on PS3 or XBox or whatever.  All I said is today is a lot harder to raise kids than it was back then and there are many more influences that are troublesome than back then.

When people try to make Elvis pelvis examples as some how on the same level as the stuff in the last 20 years, I can only call it laughable.  All that being said, you can't wrap your kids up in pillows and ear plugs and hide them in the basement, nor is anyone suggesting that.  But people that have seen the times change are right, it's a lot harder today and more complicated due to technology, family breakdown, entertainment, moral softening, lack of discipline in schools, relaxed laws, etc.  

You are missing the point on the Elvis stuff... again.

You are using today's values and evaluating things that happened in the 1950's. It doesn't work like that. You can't just use hindsight. You have to view it through the prism of the 1950's. It was considered scandalous... just like some music today is scandalous. Young people are always pushing boundaries and limits. That's not new to this generation. That's the point.

And again, nobody said raising kids today isn't hard. It is. There are a lot of real dangers out there.

But, I think you are forgetting all of the real dangers of the 1950's and 60's. Infant mortality rate, cars were far more unsafe, teens could still get pregnant back then (that isn't new), polio (ever heard of it?), etc.

I'd rather monitor my child's internet use (today's problem) vs worrying about him being drafted and sent to Vietnam. Oh, and "separate but equal" was still the law of the land in some places. School integration in Mississippi was probably a little more dangerous and stressful than facebook, right?

The problems and challenges today are just different, and therefore "scary", which is understandable. But, let's apply some logic and not just emotion.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I'll ask again, why are their lyrics ratings now and there weren't when Elvis was shaking his pelvis?

I'm told that we live in a political correct society that expects the government to protect us from everything.

Therefore, it's not surprising that music ratings are a more recent phenomenon, is it?

[Lennys Tap]

You are missing the point on the Elvis stuff... again.

You are using today's values and evaluating things that happened in the 1950's. It doesn't work like that. You can't just use hindsight. You have to view it through the prism of the 1950's. It was considered scandalous... just like some music today is scandalous. Young people are always pushing boundaries and limits. That's not new to this generation. That's the point.

And again, nobody said raising kids today isn't hard. It is. There are a lot of real dangers out there.

But, I think you are forgetting all of the real dangers of the 1950's and 60's. Infant mortality rate, cars were far more unsafe, teens could still get pregnant back then (that isn't new), polio (ever heard of it?), etc.

I'd rather monitor my child's internet use (today's problem) vs worrying about him being drafted and sent to Vietnam. Oh, and "separate but equal" was still the law of the land in some places. School integration in Mississippi was probably a little more dangerous and stressful than facebook, right?

The problems and challenges today are just different, and therefore "scary", which is understandable. But, let's apply some logic and not just emotion.

Your right, of course. It's all about context and perspective. Parents will nearly always tell their children how much harder it was "in their day" even as they wax nostalgic about the good old days. Grandparents are an additional generation removed from the fray so the fact that they think it's harder to raise children in a time not their own is no surprise. Why anyone would waste the time to take a poll on something so obvious and meaningless is beyond me.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Because of chicken littles like you.

More likely because society felt that certain things are needed with warnings for parents, kids, etc.  I mean, using your logic, why not just put porn on CBS because there really shouldn't be anything to worry about except for those chicken littles.  Or where is it that the line is drawn?  Porn = out.  Song glorifying killing cops = ok.  Song glorifying rape = ok.  I guess I'd like to see where you draw the line.

I'm not against selling this stuff, I'm all for it. If people want to buy it, more power to them.  Since most parents can't get around to hearing certain things or watching certain things, I'm also not against the warnings as a tool for parents and consumers in general.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Ask Tipper Gore. She flipped over a Prince LP nearly 30 years ago and then went after rap music. 2 Live Crew in '86 had such hits as "We Want Some P****" and "Throw the 'D'". More than 25 years ago a record store employee was charged with a felony for selling a kid a 2 Live Crew record.

"F*ck tha Police" by NWA is 25 years old.

Ice T's weirdo Body Count group had "Cop Killer"... that was more than 20 years ago.

More than 25 years ago Too Short was on wax asking Ronald Reagan about cocaine sales in the White House and telling the President about explicit sex acts that Nancy performed on him.

25 years ago Willie Dee was rhyming about... very naughty things.

Just because you may have not been listening to it doesn't mean "raunchy" lyrics weren't around long before the current day.

Never said they weren't....I think you are missing the point...I was comparing it to 1950's, 1960's....fare earlier than Ice T or NWA or whatever.  And yes, I'm aware of what was going on....I even got to go to Public Enemy's Rock and Rock Hall of Fame induction a few months ago (well, they were inducted along with Rush, Randy Newman, Heart, etc). 

If you can honestly tell me that glorifying rape, saying it's cool to shoot cops, etc is the same as the lyrics of the 1950's and 1960's, then have at it.   

And yes, Guns N Ammo, I get times change...that's part of the whole point of this entire thread.  Times change and it isn't always good.  Just because we have lowered or moral guard and said it's cool to allow this stuff doesn't mean it's a good thing.

[ChicosBailBonds]

The problems and challenges today are just different, and therefore "scary", which is understandable. But, let's apply some logic and not just emotion.

Guns, back in your day could you leave the front door unlocked at your home?  Is it emotional today that we lock the doors, something caused by fear or is it because (again based on when you grew up) common sense?

Polio...yes, heard of it...I have a nice scar from my polio vaccination on my left shoulder. 

I don't disagree with you that the challenges are different, and I think more problematic than in the past.  Lenny can dismiss his peers (the elderly) if he wishes, I don't. 

For every cars are safer today I can come up with just as many if not more problematic scenarios.  So yes, different and in some cases more problematic.

Saw an interesting story yesterday on television about sex and young folks today.  It was with a number of psychologists and sex therapy types and the premise was that with the easy access of porn today on the internet, etc, that kids no longer no how to make love.  It was kind of funny, but it rang true.  They were talking about the long term effects this will have on marriage, relationships, etc, as you have generations of kids now getting out there that basically copying what they see in 10 minute videos.  Especially interesting to note what young women are being taught by this.

Different?  Certainly.  More challenging and problematic...I think so and so did those experts.  Chicken little...maybe.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Your right, of course. It's all about context and perspective. Parents will nearly always tell their children how much harder it was "in their day" even as they wax nostalgic about the good old days. Grandparents are an additional generation removed from the fray so the fact that they think it's harder to raise children in a time not their own is no surprise. Why anyone would waste the time to take a poll on something so obvious and meaningless is beyond me.

Makes me think you have little regard for your peers Lenny.  As if they are not capable of using their wisdom, their intellect, their experience to be able to fundamentally compare eras....eras, I'd remind you, that they have lived in both.   I'll have to remember that next time you opine about something as your age group apparently isn't capable of such measurement.