Titletown U.S.A.

[muarmy81]

muarmy81... your a Bears fan, and you despise everything Packers, it's like me being a Brewers fan and despising everything Cubs... thats how it goes...

The title of Titletown is the Green Bay Packers, it has been for decades... like someone has stated on here... next year are we going to decide which city is the Windy city?  because I guarantee there is some town in Kansas or Iowa which will compete for being more "windy".. however people from Chicago will bitch till no tomorrow... its a name that is with the city, just like Titletown is for Green Bay.

If ESPN makes any other city Titletown, numerous letters will be sent to that station.  Hey, how about we start the which station is the "world wide leader in sports" station?  See how ESPN enjoys that one.

I for one could care less if some other city tries to stake a claim as the "Windy City".  And you do know that it was nick-named the windy city for all the politicians back in the day, (Blowing a lot of hot air) as well as during Chicago's rivalry with Cinncy during the 1860's and 1870's not necessarily for the fact that there's physically more wind in the city?  I think that a lot of residents of Chicago aren't that insecure about somebody calling themselves a "Windy City".  I really wouldn't think ESPN would get too worried about somebody claiming to be a "Sports Leader" because they could prove their claim through actions...showing more sports than any other station.  CNN, MSNBC, Fox all claim to be the "Election Leaders" or have the "Best political Coverage" and "Experts" but that's all based on what they can deliver.  Those news stations display the best coverage that they can and let the viewers decide.  Similarily, ESPN was going to let other cities make their argument as "Titletown" and let viewers decide.  1 championship in the last 40 years?  I guess I would be insecure about my claim to the title "Titletown" as well.

chili:  Your first response to me was that CA and SC don't try and call themselves the dairy state or the Peach state and then your next response is that they do fuss over it...well, which is it?  Do they care or do they not?

And to stir the pot a little more I heard ESPN refer to Boston as title town this morning on sportscenter...let's send the angry mob over to boston because how dare they take our name!!!  Oh wait 17 NBA Championships, 2 World Series Championships, and actual RECENT championships in football. (3 Within the last 7 years)

And let the revolt begin....fire away guys 

Edit:  Thanks, I did post that wrong...3 in 7

[DJO's Pump Fake]

(4 Within the last 7 years)

It is actually 3 in the last 7 years....lets get stats right before we post

The only team to win more in 7 years is the Packers....5 in 7...the only franchise to do so

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chico, as a marketing professional I know you know the difference between happy cheese comes from happy cow from America's daily land. i didn't see many California cheese ad's in Scottsdale last week during my golf trip last week - yes I know hot - but I still did not see any. My point was that Wisconsin has been and always will be know America's Dairyland due historical significance and the historical weight they have gained. Its intirsic value.

I understand, just as Milwaukee is considered the beer capital of the US (at one point beer capital of the world) even though it's not.  Chicago is still known as 2nd city even though it's not anymore. 

I guess one thing to consider in your statement is the "always will be"...things change, perceptions change, realities change.

If Green Bay goes 50 years without winning another title and say another team wins 10 in that timeframe, don't you think some folks would scratch their head at a titletown claim?  Perhaps.  Plenty of examples of names / nicknames of places or things from long ago that no longer stick because they died off through the generations or simply became so untrue in reality that they were no longer promoted as such.

[ChicosBailBonds]

It is actually 3 in the last 7 years....lets get stats right before we post

The only team to win more in 7 years is the Packers....5 in 7...the only franchise to do so

Boston Celtics won 8 straight championships, and 12 in 14 years. 

UCLA Bruins won 7 straight championships

New York Islanders won 4 straight championships

Montreal Canadians won 5 straight championships

New York Yankees won 5 straight championships and 8 in 11 years

Etc, etc


Plenty of titletowns and great storied championship runs out there....of course most of them were way back in the day when there weren't many teams in the leagues (same benefit the Packers had), shortened playoff series, no salary caps, no free agency.

Much harder to go on those dynasty runs today or even the last few decades.

[DJO's Pump Fake]

Boston Celtics won 8 straight championships, and 12 in 14 years. 

UCLA Bruins won 7 straight championships

New York Islanders won 4 straight championships

Montreal Canadians won 5 straight championships

New York Yankees won 5 straight championships and 8 in 11 years

Etc, etc


Plenty of titletowns and great storied championship runs out there....of course most of them were way back in the day when there weren't many teams in the leagues (same benefit the Packers had), shortened playoff series, no salary caps, no free agency.

Much harder to go on those dynasty runs today or even the last few decades.

I completely agree...I was just talking football franchises by the way I know about the other sports dyansties.

[SaintPaulWarrior]

The Chicago Bulls won 6 in 8 years and that is only because #23 "retired".


And to follow up on another point.  Windy City has absolutely zero association with any kind of weather related wind.  It has to do with the politicians and also the bragging about how great the world's fair was going to be.

[IAmMarquette]

Chicago is still known as 2nd city even though it's not anymore. 

Not quite sure what you mean by this. Second City is a reference to the rebuilding of the city after the Chicago Fire.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Not quite sure what you mean by this. Second City is a reference to the rebuilding of the city after the Chicago Fire.

Yes, that's one reference but not the only one....I was referencing the version of 2nd city as in importance, population, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_city#United_States


[edit] United States
(March 2008)


In the United States, the term has long been a nickname for Chicago, which has a history as the largest urban area second to New York City. However, in the 1980s, Chicago was displaced by Los Angeles as the second largest city in the United States (if considering the metropolitan area, it could be argued that this had taken place a decade earlier). Chicago has embraced its "Second City" moniker and has widely accepted it as a shorthand name for the city; this is the origin of the name of The Second City comedy troupe. Sometimes the nickname has been used derisively, as when the New York Mets overcame the Chicago Cubs 9 1/2 game lead in 1969, and New York's mayor, John Lindsay, stated that, "Chicago is still the second city."

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Not that I mind the Packers, being from Green Bay, but I don't understand the need for the constant "most championships" talk.  Most of the championships happened when there were like four teams.  The fact that the team can't move is great as are the ties to the community.  No other city lives and dies by how the team plays. Either I really don't get it after living in Green Bay for years, or "tradition" seems to be a poor excuse to explain all the things that make absolutely no sense. The "stock" thing is stupid-it might have had some validity when they issued stock in the 60's but the 90's "offering" was nothing more than a gimmick.  The only incentive to being a shareholder is sitting in an an annual PR charade once a year.  When they want some more money I'm sure they'll get some more people to pay $200 for a share though. 

I get the whole tailgating thing and the small town pride, and even the parking on people's lawns near the stadium.  That stuff sticks with you when you live in Green Bay and follow the team.  But some of it just never clicked with me, like how these people will watch 3 hours of "Packer shows" Monday and Tuesday nights that consist of players saying nothing about football and "Q&A" sessions consisting of little kids asking the players if they like playing football.  Only a matter of weeks until they are all glued to the TV every night for the "Training Camp Report" where you get pointless speculation on who's going to make the team, drunk guys calling in and asking idiotic questions,  and you get to learn the hobbies of players that they will be further enjoying when they are unemployed after they get cut two days later.  Watching this garbage isn't being a "true fan", it's a way of dealing with small town boredom.

And the last thing that bothers me is that Packer fans still hold a huge grudge against Javon Walker for wanting out of Green Bay.  Every team has holdouts and is put in the same situation every year; it's the NFL's ridiculous salary structure that somehow earns praise as being the best in sports.  Just because he decided to take advantage of that and not enjoy all Green Bay had to offer him is no reason to still hear fans talk about how "he had it coming" when his teammate died in his arms and now when he gets beaten unconscious.

+1,000,000

Thank you for writing that so I didn't need to. Grew up about 30 minutes from Lambau Field. Never became a Packers fan because the cultish obsession with Brett Favre of attention-starved Northern Wisconsin residents grated on me.

The only thing I would amplify is that this BS about "12 world championships" really is pretty sad. The idea of a "world championship" only came about when the NFL and AFL began playing one another in what would be known as the "Super Bowl."

Sorry kids, but the Packers only have 3 world championships. You can try to make it otherwise by utterly obnoxiously putting each year you won the 8-team NFL end-of-season percentage ranking in your stadium, but it doesn't change the truth.

[Moonboots]

+1,000,000

Thank you for writing that so I didn't need to. Grew up about 30 minutes from Lambau Field. Never became a Packers fan because the cultish obsession with Brett Favre of attention-starved Northern Wisconsin residents grated on me.

The only thing I would amplify is that this BS about "12 world championships" really is pretty sad. The idea of a "world championship" only came about when the NFL and AFL began playing one another in what would be known as the "Super Bowl."

Sorry kids, but the Packers only have 3 world championships. You can try to make it otherwise by utterly obnoxiously putting each year you won the 8-team NFL end-of-season percentage ranking in your stadium, but it doesn't change the truth.

http://www.nfl.com/history/randf/records/team/championships

The NFL tends to disagree with you, and I'll take their word as a governing body in this situation over yours.  I'd argue that your anti-Packer bias is just as strong as my pro-Packer bias, by the way you talk with disgust about your fellow cheeseheads (and LambEau Field).  It's true that you may have an agenda.  It's also true that I may have one. The NFL, on the other hand, does not.  They say Green Bay has 12 world championships.  The record stands.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Can you read? God, this is why I can't stand Packer fans.

It says NOWHERE on the link you provide that they are "WORLD CHAMPIONS."

It makes about as much sense as saying the Packers were "INTERGALACTIC CHAMPIONS."

It befits the football intelligence of the average Packer fan that you can't even accept that the first "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" was the SUPERBOWL, something that didn't start until 1967.

You're right, "the record stands": 3 world championships.

Worse than the San Francisco 49ers. Worse than the Dallas Cowboys. Worse than the Pittsburg Steelers. And the same as the Raiders, Redskins, Patriots and Giants.

[muwarrior87]

how many other countries have players in the NFL? so world champions in general is kind of misleading since there are only about 5 other countries in the world that give a rat's @ss about throwball. league champs 12 times. ok, so in the sport, they are the champs more times than any other team. enough said. you two are arguing about an insignificant little detail, world vs league. who cares? back to the real football for me. Come on Netherlands!!

[ChicosBailBonds]

The United States is full of themselves everytime we make these "world" claims.  It's stupid.  World Series...really?  I don't see any other countries playing in it.  World champions of football or baseball or basketball.

Lame.

The Packers have 12 championships...end of story.  Though I think those that argue that the players were split into the AFL or the old All American Football Conference have a legit beef.  Just as I think UW-Madison's basketball national title when there were only 8 teams invited is not anywhere close to a title of today...some would argue the same about some of the Packers, Lions, Browns, Bears titles when every few teams existed.

Oh well....everyone has an opinion.  For my money, there are two periods in pro football.  Pre merger and post merger.  Pre merger it was the Packers...post merger it's been dominated by 3 teams (Cowboys...8 title appearances and 5 championships, 49ers 5 championships, Steelers 6 title appearances and 5 titles).  Then there are a entire slew of teams like the Giants, Packers, Patriots, Broncos that come in at the second tier in the post merger era.

[Moonboots]

Can you read? God, this is why I can't stand Packer fans.

It says NOWHERE on the link you provide that they are "WORLD CHAMPIONS."

It makes about as much sense as saying the Packers were "INTERGALACTIC CHAMPIONS."

It befits the football intelligence of the average Packer fan that you can't even accept that the first "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" was the SUPERBOWL, something that didn't start until 1967.

You're right, "the record stands": 3 world championships.

Worse than the San Francisco 49ers. Worse than the Dallas Cowboys. Worse than the Pittsburg Steelers. And the same as the Raiders, Redskins, Patriots and Giants.

That's why you can't stand Packer fans?  How about the NFL?  Any football historian?  You clearly fail to realize that those early Packer teams were some of the most stacked in league history, both sides of the ball littered with hall of famers.

You can continue to pick and choose your championships.  The rest of the league will continue to acknowledge the Packers' accomplishments, both past and present. 

There is no possible way I can disagree with Chicos.  The Packers are in the second tier of the post merger era in the NFL.  The Steelers, Cowboys, and 49ers are in the first.  That's fine. But championships are championships, and you can't just decide that some count and some don't, based on your own scale of importance.  The NFL's opinion is the one that matters, and they say 12.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

That's why you can't stand Packer fans?  How about the NFL?  Any football historian?  You clearly fail to realize that those early Packer teams were some of the most stacked in league history, both sides of the ball littered with hall of famers.

You can continue to pick and choose your championships.  The rest of the league will continue to acknowledge the Packers' accomplishments, both past and present. 

There is no possible way I can disagree with Chicos.  The Packers are in the second tier of the post merger era in the NFL.  The Steelers, Cowboys, and 49ers are in the first.  That's fine. But championships are championships, and you can't just decide that some count and some don't, based on your own scale of importance.  The NFL's opinion is the one that matters, and they say 12.

Woah woah, just a minute there, professor. Where did the "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS" go? Or are you finally admitting that the Pack only has THREE "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS." Again, I know this is extremely difficult for you as part of a fanbase that knows little to nothing about actual football, but I urge you to examine the HISTORY you seem to obsess so much about so you can find that the O-N-L-Y time when "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" emerged began in 1967 when the AFL and NFL played one another.

Again, please point to the origin of 75% of the "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS" that the deluded Pack fan base claims as such in ANY document from the NFL. You can't. It doesn't exist. So instead, like the attention-starved population of Green Bay, you invent "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" for games that were NEVER thought of as such and plaster it all over Lambeau Field to make yourself feel important. And you wonder why the entire rest of the country laughs at Green Bay!

I agree entirely with Chicos, the Packers have 12 LEAGUE championships. Why in God's name can't you people just state it as that? Isn't that enough in and of itself? Why do you have so little self-esteem that you need to invent out of whole cloth the history of football in America?

[Sir Lawrence]

Has anyone discussed this with Freeway?

[MUFan71]

Woah woah, just a minute there, professor. Where did the "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS" go? Or are you finally admitting that the Pack only has THREE "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS." Again, I know this is extremely difficult for you as part of a fanbase that knows little to nothing about actual football, but I urge you to examine the HISTORY you seem to obsess so much about so you can find that the O-N-L-Y time when "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" emerged began in 1967 when the AFL and NFL played one another.

Again, please point to the origin of 75% of the "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS" that the deluded Pack fan base claims as such in ANY document from the NFL. You can't. It doesn't exist. So instead, like the attention-starved population of Green Bay, you invent "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" for games that were NEVER thought of as such and plaster it all over Lambeau Field to make yourself feel important. And you wonder why the entire rest of the country laughs at Green Bay!

I agree entirely with Chicos, the Packers have 12 LEAGUE championships. Why in God's name can't you people just state it as that? Isn't that enough in and of itself? Why do you have so little self-esteem that you need to invent out of whole cloth the history of football in America?

 So you grew up 30 minutes from Lambeau and your football education was far better than the rest us. Ok I got that part. The argument you make seems to reflect more of a Dallas we are America's Team rather than Green Bay is or isn't Titletown. If your league says the team with the best record is the champion are you the champion if you have the best record? If that same league says if you win the final game whatever you call it and you do are you the champion? The point is you can only beat the teams in your league as the league is set up. Would you have liked the Packers to play the Yankees in a football/baseball battle royal before the word "Superbowl" was invented?

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

So you grew up 30 minutes from Lambeau and your football education was far better than the rest us. Ok I got that part. The argument you make seems to reflect more of a Dallas we are America's Team rather than Green Bay is or isn't Titletown. If your league says the team with the best record is the champion are you the champion if you have the best record? If that same league says if you win the final game whatever you call it and you do are you the champion? The point is you can only beat the teams in your league as the league is set up. Would you have liked the Packers to play the Yankees in a football/baseball battle royal before the word "Superbowl" was invented?

HELLO MUFan71! H-E-L-L-O! Read the post before you respond! I didn't say they WEREN'T "champions," I said they WEREN'T "WORLD CHAMPIONS." It simply is not the same thing to win the Superbowl as it is to win the 8 team interleague end of season percentage rankings. That's why they CREATED the idea of a "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" in 1967 when the AFL and NFL played in the first place in what would afterwards be known as Superbowl I. IT'S NOT THE SAME THING.

I don't give a rat's butt if the Packers/GB want to call themselves "Titletown USA" or "Magic Fairyland USA." I find it unendlingly nausiating though to hear from the Pack fan base that they've are 12x "WORLD CHAMPIONS." Why not just call yourself "UNIVERSAL CHAMPIONS" while you're at it seeing as -- at least for the time when there were no other leagues, ie during 6 of their 9 pre-merger victories -- it has about the same meaning.

[IAmMarquette]

HELLO MUFan71! H-E-L-L-O! Read the post before you respond! I didn't say they WEREN'T "champions," I said they WEREN'T "WORLD CHAMPIONS." It simply is not the same thing to win the Superbowl as it is to win the 8 team interleague end of season percentage rankings. That's why they CREATED the idea of a "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" in 1967 when the AFL and NFL played in the first place in what would afterwards be known as Superbowl I. IT'S NOT THE SAME THING.

I don't give a rat's butt if the Packers/GB want to call themselves "Titletown USA" or "Magic Fairyland USA." I find it unendlingly nausiating though to hear from the Pack fan base that they've got are 12x "WORLD CHAMPIONS." Why not just call yourself "UNIVERSAL CHAMPIONS" while you're at it seeing as -- at least for the time when there were no other leagues, ie during 6 of their 9 pre-merger victories -- it has about the same meaning.

You did grow up near Green Bay, didn't you? (so did I) People from that area can't seem to discuss anything without yelling (or unnecessarily capitalizing words) at each other. Relax.

Back to the discussion, though... is it "unendingly nauseating" to hear a Yankees fan refer to their 26 World Championships? Or is it just an "attention-starved" Wisconsin thing?

[MUFan71]

HELLO MUFan71! H-E-L-L-O! Read the post before you respond! I didn't say they WEREN'T "champions," I said they WEREN'T "WORLD CHAMPIONS." It simply is not the same thing to win the Superbowl as it is to win the 8 team interleague end of season percentage rankings. That's why they CREATED the idea of a "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" in 1967 when the AFL and NFL played in the first place in what would afterwards be known as Superbowl I. IT'S NOT THE SAME THING.

I don't give a rat's butt if the Packers/GB want to call themselves "Titletown USA" or "Magic Fairyland USA." I find it unendlingly nausiating though to hear from the Pack fan base that they've are 12x "WORLD CHAMPIONS." Why not just call yourself "UNIVERSAL CHAMPIONS" while you're at it seeing as -- at least for the time when there were no other leagues, ie during 6 of their 9 pre-merger victories -- it has about the same meaning.

 Thanks for saying hello warrior07. If you would like to pay for a ticket I would consider taking you to a game. Then you may see what the hype is all about. They are good seats fifty yard line eight rows up. You do seem to take this very personal. Is this part of your dislike of Favre?

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Thanks for the invitation, but I've been to about 6 or 8 games already. I wouldn't know that the Packers obnoxiously display "WORLD CHAMPIONS" along with 12 dates in Lambeau without having been there.

And I actually don't dislike Favre or most of the Packer players. Just 99% of the fan base. I can hate a cult without hating the thing a cult revers.

[MUFan71]

Thanks for the invitation, but I've been to about 6 or 8 games already. I wouldn't know that the Packers obnoxiously display "WORLD CHAMPIONS" along with 12 dates in Lambeau without having been there.

And I actually don't dislike Favre or most of the Packer players. Just 99% of the fan base. I can hate a cult without hating the thing a cult revers.

 I don't disagree with everything you said. I just think they only could play the teams the league put on the field.

[wadesworld]

Woah woah, just a minute there, professor. Where did the "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS" go? Or are you finally admitting that the Pack only has THREE "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS." Again, I know this is extremely difficult for you as part of a fanbase that knows little to nothing about actual football, but I urge you to examine the HISTORY you seem to obsess so much about so you can find that the O-N-L-Y time when "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" emerged began in 1967 when the AFL and NFL played one another.

Again, please point to the origin of 75% of the "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIPS" that the deluded Pack fan base claims as such in ANY document from the NFL. You can't. It doesn't exist. So instead, like the attention-starved population of Green Bay, you invent "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" for games that were NEVER thought of as such and plaster it all over Lambeau Field to make yourself feel important. And you wonder why the entire rest of the country laughs at Green Bay!

I agree entirely with Chicos, the Packers have 12 LEAGUE championships. Why in God's name can't you people just state it as that? Isn't that enough in and of itself? Why do you have so little self-esteem that you need to invent out of whole cloth the history of football in America?

If they were to change the name from "Super Bowl" to "World Championship" in 5 years would people have to discount any "League Championship" and "Super Bowl" won by any team?  We would just start out as whoever won the first "World Championship" has 1 championship and the rest of the league has 0 and that's all that counts?  Obviously that won't happen, but I'm just wondering what your take on that would be.

[Rollout-the-Barrel]

Isn't Green Bay on the list?  Don't they have a good chance of being voted #1 and then GB will have further validation?  When someone says "titletown" I automatically think of GB because that has just been said for so many years on national tv and other media.

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

If they were to change the name from "Super Bowl" to "World Championship" in 5 years would people have to discount any "League Championship" and "Super Bowl" won by any team?  We would just start out as whoever won the first "World Championship" has 1 championship and the rest of the league has 0 and that's all that counts?  Obviously that won't happen, but I'm just wondering what your take on that would be.

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking but the point is, in 1967 a bigger, more intense playoff competition began in the arena of American football that joined together two existing leagues, the NFL and the AFL. At this point, they decided to call it the "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" and (I believe 1-2 years later) changed that to the "Superbowl." Given that the name "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" was the specific name of the NFL-AFL competition (or the NFC-AFC competition, if you prefer), it is simply not the same thing to claim that, for instance, the Packer's first three NFL "championships" (I think I'm being slightly generous in claiming that winning by percentage ranking in a 8-10 game league is a championship) are the same thing as the latter "WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP" as advertised by the Packer's organization and fan base. The name of the competition does not matter. The aura of importance created by the name does.