[Rosiak's Blog] A little clarification

[ToddRosiakSays]

A little clarification

Written by: Todd Rosiak


Seems there's been some confusion surrounding MU's opponents in the Chicago Invitational in November.

Here's the way things stand now:

MU will play Chicago State and Texas Southern at the Bradley Center on dates yet to be determined. Win or lose, the Golden Eagles then advance to the Sears Center in Hoffman Estates, Ill.

There, they will play Northern Iowa at 7:30 p.m. on Nov. 28, and Dayton at a time yet to be determined on Nov. 29.



http://blogs.jsonline.com/muhoops/archive/2008/06/06/a-little-clarification.aspx

[ChicosBailBonds]

Texas Southern #320 in the RPI

Chicago State #213


I don't think people are going to get their wish for a stronger home slate, nor did I expect it.  That's two schools over 320 for sure on the schedule

[LastWarrior]

Texas Southern #320 in the RPI

Chicago State #213


I don't think people are going to get their wish for a stronger home slate, nor did I expect it.  That's two schools over 320 for sure on the schedule

Chicos... what's up with all the negativity these days?  I miss the sunny, happy, optimistic guy we all came to love!

[BrewCity83]

I think Chicos was playing the sunny, happy opposite against PRN's darkness.  Now that the dark PRN clouds have blown through, our world has been thrown off balance.

[ecompt]

But these aren't "buy" games, right? Are we playing these teams because they're part of this tournament, or did we choose them?

[Nukem2]

They are part of the tournament.  Not sure of the finacial implications; but, the'll still serve the same purpose as buy games.

[downtown85]

Chicos... what's up with all the negativity these days?  I miss the sunny, happy, optimistic guy we all came to love!

Chicos is suffering from Creanis envy.  He just can't get over his mancrush he had on Tan Tommy.

[LastWarrior]

Creanis envy. 

LOVE IT!!

[Chicago_inferiority_complexes]

Chicos... what's up with all the negativity these days?  I miss the sunny, happy, optimistic guy we all came to love!

As a glass half-empty kind of guy, I kind of like it.

[esotericmindguy]

Well he can whine all he wants, but as we saw in last years Big East RPI MU will be fine.  Now that MU is in the big east it makes absolutely no sense to play more tough non-conference foes.  Tennessee and UW are enough.  And Northern Iowa and Dayton on a neutral floor is decent.  Really, if MU goes 9-7 or better they assure themselves a bid.

[mu_hilltopper]

My personal season ticket holder threshold is just *one* high quality home OOC game in addition to the UW H&H.  The other 8-9 games can be all versus Presbyterian Colleges and Savannah States.

Been 4 seasons since that's happened (Arizona - 2004).

And before you start listing the 12 reasons that won't happen and will never happen, well .. we seem to try every year.  Last year it was Gonzaga, Texas and (? can't remember 3rd team) who we spoke to, but didn't contract with, for one reason or another.

One of these years, it's gotta work out.

[The Lens]

My personal season ticket holder threshold is just *one* high quality home OOC game in addition to the UW H&H.  The other 8-9 games can be all versus Presbyterian Colleges and Savannah States.

+18,000

[spiral97]

You mean UW-Milwaukee doesn't count? 

[muarmy81]

My personal season ticket holder threshold is just *one* high quality home OOC game in addition to the UW H&H.  The other 8-9 games can be all versus Presbyterian Colleges and Savannah States.

Been 4 seasons since that's happened (Arizona - 2004).

And before you start listing the 12 reasons that won't happen and will never happen, well .. we seem to try every year.  Last year it was Gonzaga, Texas and (? can't remember 3rd team) who we spoke to, but didn't contract with, for one reason or another.

One of these years, it's gotta work out.

Wasn't the 3rd team Alabama?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos... what's up with all the negativity these days?  I miss the sunny, happy, optimistic guy we all came to love!

Not negative at all....just being accurate.  There were some here that believed Crean's schedule was a result of Crean.  Fact is, long before Crean with Deane, KO, and Dukiet, we've played the same type of schedule.  I know some folks thought with Buzz that would change, I just don't think it will.  I could be 100% wrong but I'm also not blaming Buzz.  It is what it is when it comes to making the schedule for Marquette athletics.

Sorry if it comes across negative, it was truly meant to just get people back down to earth that thought UNC, UCLA, Duke and Texas were suddenly going to be on the home slate.  It just isn't going to happen unless the administration (not athletics....the university administration) changes the way the budget is.

And Downtown, I'll have a big Buzz hard-on if Buzz can duplicate what Crean did.  My worry has always been that MU sometimes thinks they're bigger then they are, so when you have someone consistently being successful do everything you can to ensure it continues.  Let's hope they have done that.  But as it relates to the schedule, it is what it is....only the head coaching names change.  Everyone bitched about it when I worked with Deane.  The same happened with Crean (I even told Crean in 2000 when we had a "state of the program" meeting that one of the top three things people will bitch about is the schedule), it happened with KO....it never ends.  No different then out here with UCLA fans, etc. 

[The Lens]

Chicos, what are the numbers behind a home game and road game?

If we give up one home game vs, Sav. State and go to Maryland what is lost?

How much is netted on the Sav State game and how much does the Maryland Game cost us?

[77ncaachamps]

When did the scheduling for the upcoming season begin?

Did Crean's departure disrupt possibly better scheduling?

[downtown85]

And Downtown, I'll have a big Buzz hard-on if Buzz can duplicate what Crean did.  My worry has always been that MU sometimes thinks they're bigger then they are, so when you have someone consistently being successful do everything you can to ensure it continues.  Let's hope they have done that.  But as it relates to the schedule, it is what it is....only the head coaching names change.  Everyone bitched about it when I worked with Deane.  The same happened with Crean (I even told Crean in 2000 when we had a "state of the program" meeting that one of the top three things people will bitch about is the schedule), it happened with KO....it never ends.  No different then out here with UCLA fans, etc. 

I am just giving you a hard time.  I basically agree with what you wrote here. My expectations for Buzz (or any coach who would have been hired after Crean) is to take what has been built (some would say re-built) over the last 3 coaching regimes and take the program to next level.  Yes, I probably fall in the camp that thinks MU is bigger and more important than it is in the basketball universe.  But hey, I'm a fan.  On the other hand, I know that you build basketball programs primarily through recruiting. If Buzz is as good at recruiting as advertised, then we should do fine.  If not, well, we'll all be posting here about the good ole days when Crean was here. 

BTW, I've never been so critical of the scheduling since I know there are reasons for it which are mainly economic and less so RPI management.   

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos, what are the numbers behind a home game and road game?

If we give up one home game vs, Sav. State and go to Maryland what is lost?

How much is netted on the Sav State game and how much does the Maryland Game cost us?

I don't know what it is today, it's been too long.  But typically a buy game is anywhere from $30K to $50K but can go higher depending on the negotiations.  Factor in the almost guaranteed revenue from suite sales and ticket sales....you'll get about 12,000 for those buy games multiplied by the revenue per.  Your outgoing is the cost of the guarantee.  If someone like Maryland (your example) would return, MU probably gets 16,000 or 17,000 bodies for that game but could also lose the game.  That incremental 4000 to 5000 people multiplied by the revenue per is likely not enough net revenue for them to sweat another loss potentially.  In other words, 3 non-conference losses per year is not palitable is my guess.

There's a distinct reason why the schedule is what the schedule is regardless of whether the coach is named Dukiet, O'Neill, Deane, Crean or Williams...nothing has changed...correct?

Now, that doesn't mean it won't change down the road...it just might.  But for the last 20 some years, MU has played 16 home regular season games every year (or more... against two extra dogs like they will this year and as they did in the CBC a few years ago) with the exception of I believe twice (maybe 3 times).  Those two years they played 15 games.

It comes down to scheduling for wins which equals tournament appearances which equals money for the program.  As a result, they're going to continue to schedule winnable games at home and take 2 chances a year on the other non-conference games and do the rest in conference.  It's a formula that has worked for them and I don't see it changing regardless of what the fans think.  Again, I could be 100% wrong going forward on this but I don't think so.  Hope I am wrong, but anticipate you will see similar schedules for years to come.  In fact, if any year you were going to try and schedule one extra tough game, this was the year to do it with the experience of the team coming back.  They might just do it on the road and get the return trip back next year...we'll see.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I am just giving you a hard time.   

I know you were      

[THEGYMBAR]

Chico's is right on the admin having to change the budget. The school needs these dog games to pay the bills. Every home game, regardless of the opponent, generates too much money. Fortunately for TC he was able to pad an overall record because of this. Chico's is also correct on the school thinking they are bigger than actually are. Ironically too many fans think we are smaller than we are and accept poor decision making. The fans actually go behind accepting they blindly support decisions.

Horrible home games will continue as long MU averages 16,000+ fans. It is the admins arrogance and acceptance by fans that allow this to happen. I would rather see ticket prices go up 20% and start a home and home two year series with a real program. KO tried with Michigan and Kansas and the plan quickly died. I loved that KO was blind or better yet arrogant enough not to care.

[bilsu]

Since they count tickets sold as attendance, attendance will not fall if you boycott a game.

[RawdogDX]

You guys are right lets switch our alliegence to a team that never plays anyone who is outside the top 200 rpi.  THere! now that we decided to do that there are SO many to choose from.  After all we are the only team in the country from a major conference that plays the bottom 40% of schools

This discussion sounds dumber every year.

for those of you who are new to the board expect to see group A and group B have go like this:
A: 'Can you believe i have to pay to watch mu thrash crap team x!  they shouldn't be on the schedule." 
B: 'actually crap team x is decent, they are picked to compete in some crappy conference.'

A: 'I don't care we should have played baylor that game.'
B: playing them allowed for our back up ____ to get some pt and he needs the experience

A: Obviously you aren't a true fan who buys season tickets or you just don't understand the value of money.
B: Every team has season ticket holders and evey team plays some crap games

A: Well look at this!  We play crap teams xyz and if you avg their rpi it comes to 270!  But after three hours of reseasrch i found a team that if you avg out their crap teams the rpi comes to 236!  Why can't we be more like them
B:  we have a slightly below avg strength of sched going into conference play in the toughest conference there is. nearly every game from now on is going to be a good game, it's not the toughest schedule but i don't understand the uproar.

A: What you DOn't understand is that I had to pay money!  I WANT BAYLOR!  make them come here twice.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Since they count tickets sold as attendance, attendance will not fall if you boycott a game.

Correct.  Though they actually announce tickets sold / distributed.  So freebies to like youth groups and such are technically not sold (or heavily discounted) but count in attendance announcements.

It's a chicken or egg situation, however.  If people start dropping tickets then more then likely the administration would add even another home game to increase revenue rather than put a bigger team on there.  Home games = revenue.  To have as many home games as they need (16 minimum) means playing dog teams because they don't want a return.  If attendance drops significantly, they'd need to make up the revenue and one extra good game with only 5000 or 6000 more people won't cut it so it would actually exascerbate the problem.

The irony is that if MU could pencil in 18000 a game in revenue for all games, they could go to less home games, 14 or 15....but the Milwaukee community will not support MU for those dog games to that level like they will in a one trick pony town like Madison, Bloomington, East Lansing, etc.

[THEGYMBAR]

Rawdog----Actually the home schedule gets dumber every year. Keep defending poor school policy.