[Rosiak's Blog] A little clarification

[THEGYMBAR]

Boycotting would multiply the problem. If fans stopped buying the crap games the need for additional garbage to be added would increase. Again, I would support higher ticket prices and less games that make you pissed when you see the schedule.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I don't mind the schedule because it is the nature of a school MU's size and the situation they are in. MU has only been in the fund raising game for athletic scholarships for a decade or so full time.  Very few are endowed, etc.

I understand gymbar, dkc, etc who want a better schedule. Just don't see it in the cards.  The university subsidizes athletics already so I don't think they have an appetite to increase that.  Then again, maybe that will change.

[RawdogDX]

Rawdog----Actually the home schedule gets dumber every year. Keep defending poor school policy.

I would say you reached a new low in not responding to anything with anysort of evidence for your view but that would be a lie since it's really your standard mo.  What is the point of defending them to you?  You won't even read the post with any sort of discernment.  It's not a conversation when talking to you that's why you have 3 times as many people ignoring you as anyone else. 

But I'll do it anyway:  We do what every other school does.  By the end of the year we end up playing more tough games then most major con schools (even ones with top 5 ooc scheds).

If the schedule improved you'd keep crying until it got so hard that some people would start saying 'Are we playing too many tough teams early?   our record is getting a pounding." and they'd be right. 

Can't wait for you baseless response.

[The Lens]

I don't know what it is today, it's been too long.  But typically a buy game is anywhere from $30K to $50K but can go higher depending on the negotiations.  Factor in the almost guaranteed revenue from suite sales and ticket sales....you'll get about 12,000 for those buy games multiplied by the revenue per.  

Thanks but what do you get per seat?  Do you get any % of concessions or novelty?  What are the costs of chartering to Maryland, hotels, per diem etc.

I know the BC deal is pretty Bucks favored, I also noticed that during the TC regime every other bugdet facet changed except this.  Could it be b/c TC liked easy wins?

What are the real costs?  Do we get $10 / tik, 5% of beer etc? 

We spent $41,000 on a hyperbaric chamber, we flew our coaches on privates jets criss crossing the country to recruit, we let in Jucos and Prop 48s, we built the Al and quadrupled our coaches (HC) compensation...ironice how the only thing that didn't change was the revenue model.

[mu_hilltopper]

Well .. the revenue model changed dramatically with the BE, and the ginormous ESPN TV contract $$. 

It just went for items other than schedule improvement(s).

[ChicosBailBonds]

Thanks but what do you get per seat?  Do you get any % of concessions or novelty?  What are the costs of chartering to Maryland, hotels, per diem etc.

I know the BC deal is pretty Bucks favored, I also noticed that during the TC regime every other bugdet facet changed except this.  Could it be b/c TC liked easy wins?

What are the real costs?  Do we get $10 / tik, 5% of beer etc? 

We spent $41,000 on a hyperbaric chamber, we flew our coaches on privates jets criss crossing the country to recruit, we let in Jucos and Prop 48s, we built the Al and quadrupled our coaches (HC) compensation...ironice how the only thing that didn't change was the revenue model.

Unless things have changed, we get $0.00 of any food/drink concessions.  $0.00 in parking.    They get a cut of sponsorship/advertising revenue.  As far as clothing sales, no idea how that works as it was handled by Warrior Shoppe which was not affiliated in any way with athletics back then (though there might be some funds flowing that way now).

The thing is, you're going to need to pay that type of salary to get someone to coach in Milwaukee and you need those types of perks (jet, etc) to keep them there.  That's just the cost of doing business now...it's like paying your CEO at a major company along with all the perks that come with it.  Doesn't mean downstream the product gets much better.

[Marquette84]

Well .. the revenue model changed dramatically with the BE, and the ginormous ESPN TV contract $$. 

It just went for items other than schedule improvement(s).

I don't know--adding Georgetown, Pittsburgh, UConn, Syracuse, Providence etc. to me seems like a pretty good schedule improvement over TCU, Southern Mississippi, East Carolina, etc.

[ecompt]

actually, GYMBAR, it doesn't get worse every year. We've traditionally played cupcakes during the OOC home schedule but at least now we have a terrific in-conference schedule.

[bilsu]

I do not mind some cupcakes as long as the bench warmers get to play.
Crean would drive me nuts. He keep his starters in way to long. He send the walkons to the scorers table with about two minutes to go and they finally get in with 30 seconds. Crean was to paranoid about losing a game that was already won. Players like Christopherson, Blackledge and Hazel should have gotten some valuable playing time in some of those games.

[Pakuni]

I do not mind some cupcakes as long as the bench warmers get to play.
Crean would drive me nuts. He keep his starters in way to long. He send the walkons to the scorers table with about two minutes to go and they finally get in with 30 seconds. Crean was to paranoid about losing a game that was already won. Players like Christopherson, Blackledge and Hazel should have gotten some valuable playing time in some of those games.

Is that you, Rob Jeter? 

[The Lens]

Chicos...How much do we net on a BUY game?  How much do we spend on a road game?

[Murffieus]

Buzz is setting himself schedulewise so as to amass a good won/loss record to mask a 50-50 BE won/loss record-----so that when another job opens to his liking-----he will be in position to show at least an illusion of success.

[ecompt]

Yeah, Murff, I'm sure that's what Buzz is doing, positioning himself for another job before he's even coached a game here. First off, 9-9 in the BE is the equivilant of 12-4 in most conferences. We will still wind up with an SOS of around 20. We could still wind up a home schedule that includes UW, UWM, UConn, Gtown, ND, Syracuse, Louisville and Pitt.

[Murffieus]

Yea, but if Buzz can go 12 & 1 in the preconference----then go 9-9 in BE play----split in the conference tourney(1 & 1)----and goes 0-1 in the NCAA and ends up 22 wins 11 losses-----sounds like a pretty good season doesn't it? But no one considers the 11-12  creampuff wins where he couldn't lose if he wanted to.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Yea, but if Buzz can go 12 & 1 in the preconference----then go 9-9 in BE play----split in the conference tourney(1 & 1)----and goes 0-1 in the NCAA and ends up 22 wins 11 losses-----sounds like a pretty good season doesn't it? But no one considers the 11-12  creampuff wins where he couldn't lose if he wanted to.

The reverse is playing a fairly tough non-conference schedule like Wisconsin-Madison and then breezing through their complete joke of a conference with all those creampuffs I suppose.  And then going into the NCAAs and losing (getting drilled) by Davidson ( a team that lost to Western Michigan, Bobby Lutz's Charlotte team, a bad NC State team, etc).

As tough as the Big East is, I'd play creampuffs too.  If we were in the soft Big Ten, then I would play a tougher non-conference schedule.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos...How much do we net on a BUY game?  How much do we spend on a road game?

Don't know what the numbers are today.....take 12,000 X the average ticket price (blended rate) should give you your revenue.  Then subtract out probably $50K, though the range of buy games is all over the place.  Add in your Bradley Center rental cost.  Then factor in the hard part....the win.  Wins are almost guaranteed and enough of them get you to the NCAA tournament which equals a lot more money

Road game expenses are travel, hotel, etc.  That can be minimal (DePaul or Valpo) vs higher cost (South Florida).  But also factor in the more likelihood of a loss which if you get too many, means no tournament and a huge revenue hit on the department. 

[mu_hilltopper]

I don't know--adding Georgetown, Pittsburgh, UConn, Syracuse, Providence etc. to me seems like a pretty good schedule improvement over TCU, Southern Mississippi, East Carolina, etc.

But those opponent swaps didn't occur because of new MU revenue, which is what we were talking about.  New revenue.

Yes, yes, the new money went to "be competitive" in the Big East.  I'd just like *one* extra high(er) quality, high interest game.  Just one.  (Besides UW)

[ecompt]

Murff, we have always played that kind of schedule. What good is playing the top six teams in the country (none of whom would likely play us in a home-and-home) when you're playing night after night in one of the toughest conferences in the country? Match our schedule with any team in the BE and we're right there. Our SOS at the end of the season will be right around 20. That's a LOT tougher schedule than any of Al's teams played and tougher than any of the schedules you faced while you were at MU.

[Marquette84]

Yea, but if Buzz can go 12 & 1 in the preconference----then go 9-9 in BE play----split in the conference tourney(1 & 1)----and goes 0-1 in the NCAA and ends up 22 wins 11 losses-----sounds like a pretty good season doesn't it? But no one considers the 11-12  creampuff wins where he couldn't lose if he wanted to.

Sounds like an NCAA season to me.

But let's give serious consideration to your alternative:   We play a schedule like Syracuse last season.  Now, we're probably pretty close in talent to Syracuse.  I dare say that Boeheim is a better coach.  What happened to the ORange last season?  #21 non-conference schedule.  9-9 in Big East play.  Goes 0-1 in conference tourney.  DOESN"T EVEN MAKE the NCAA. 

No one considers the #21 rank of your non-conference schedule.  They just see that you only have 19 wins (including 3 non-conference losses to strong but not top 25 teams), and when there are 8 teams ahead of you in conference that have 20+, you wind up in the NIT.  Meanwhile Villanova makes the tournament despite an identical conference record and a non-conference RPI was #159 (to give you some idea of the type of schedule VU played, the MU schedule you call loaded with creampuffs ranked #134).


Or let's say we play a schedule like DePaul in 2007.   We go 9-7 in conference--good enough to be tied for 7th.  Yet because of an overly tough non-conference schedule, we wind up 17-13 overall and don't even get a sniff of NCAA consideration.


Murff, as hard as this is for you to grasp, a pretty good season is one where a team makes the NCAA tournament.  And also, apparently very hard for you to believe--winning games is more important than your strength of schedule.  Syracuse had a strong schedule and was left out.  Washington STate played a weak schedule and not only made the tourney, got a high seed.  Nobody cares about non-conference SOS.  A good one doesn't help you.  A weak one doesn't hurt you.  it's the wins and losses that matter.

If a weak non-conference schedule gets you the wins, then it's a sign that the team knows what is important--wins.

Nobody cares if you played cream-puffs in non-conference to get there.  Hell, you've had plenty of nice things to say about the Bennetts--have you looked at WSU's non-conference schedule lately?  I've never once seen you criticize Tony Bennett because of his cream-puff non-conference schedule.

[Murffieus]

First of all if i have to select a coach and my only options are Boeheim and Crean----I'll pick Crean-----especially if the game is played in Nov, Dec, or Jan.

Who says we go 17-13 with a tough non conference schedule----just because DePaul did doesn't mean we would had we played their non conf schedule. Al would play one or two creampuffs early on-----and then a few mid majors dotted his schedule like Miami (OH) or Bowling Green but the rest was with essentially traditionally solid programs.

[Marquette84]

First of all if i have to select a coach and my only options are Boeheim and Crean----I'll pick Crean-----especially if the game is played in Nov, Dec, or Jan.

We're not talking about who's a better coach, we're talking about what makes a better schedule to make the NCAA tournament.

And the bottom line is that MU has made 3 NCAA tournaments in a row, Syracuse has missed 2 of the last 3--and without a miracle run in the conference tournament would have missed 3 of 3.   And their problem is they don't build a non-confernce schedule that they can run the table on.

Who says we go 17-13 with a tough non conference schedule----just because DePaul did doesn't mean we would had we played their non conf schedule.

You missed the point.  The point is that DePaul would have made the NCAA tournament THAT YEAR on the strength of their conference play if they didn't schedule a death march non-conference schedule.   They gained ABSOLUTELY NOTHING with that tougher schedule.  If they had scheduled a dozen creampuffs and ran the table, they would have made the tournament.


Tony Bennett gets it.  Over two seasons he has loaded his non-conference schedule with creampuffs.  Eight each year to go with three mid-majors, with only one debatably tough game (Gonzaga).  What does he wind up with?   High seeds in the NCAA tournament two years running--that's what.

For all the griping about how MU's coaches are padding their record, why do you give Bennett a pass? 

[The Lens]

Don't know what the numbers are today.....take 12,000 X the average ticket price (blended rate) should give you your revenue.  Then subtract out probably $50K, though the range of buy games is all over the place.  Add in your Bradley Center rental cost.  Then factor in the hard part....the win.  Wins are almost guaranteed and enough of them get you to the NCAA tournament which equals a lot more money

Road game expenses are travel, hotel, etc.  That can be minimal (DePaul or Valpo) vs higher cost (South Florida).  But also factor in the more likelihood of a loss which if you get too many, means no tournament and a huge revenue hit on the department. 

Chicos, for F sake...what is the rent?  How much do we get per ticket?  I love how people throw out there this rev model, but no ne has real numbers.  What dp we pay the BC?  How much per ticket do we get?

[dennycrane]

Tony Bennett gets it.  Over two seasons he has loaded his non-conference schedule with creampuffs.  Eight each year to go with three mid-majors, with only one debatably tough game (Gonzaga).  What does he wind up with?   High seeds in the NCAA tournament two years running--that's what.

 

It has to be easier to get opponents to consider playing in to Milwaukee than Pullman. What programs want to fly to Spokane and then take the 2 hour bus trip to Pullman?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos, for F sake...what is the rent?  How much do we get per ticket?  I love how people throw out there this rev model, but no ne has real numbers.  What dp we pay the BC?  How much per ticket do we get?

I said I don't know anymore...it's been a decade.   

Rent used to be about $19K per game, I have no idea what it is now.

How much do we get per ticket...I have no idea today what it is, but it's likely a similar percentage as years past.  It's not hard to figure out, but I'm not going to take the time to do it.  I would suggest using the seat pricing matrix to come up with the blended costs for a simple calculation.




At the end of the day, the finance folks have run this 100's of times and you're not likely to see the schedule change.  Wins (i.e. 20+ wins) are more lucrative then having an extra home game against a top team because it only yields an extra 5000 to 6000 people (mostly upper deck cheat seats) which cannot compete with the huge sums of money the school gets in exposure and NCAA tournament credits for making the tournament.

[Dish]

Chicos, has MU ever thought about tier pricing their schedule, like most MLB teams do now?

I think most would agree that the demand is there to add a game against a quality non-conference opponent. With that said, I think most would pay more money to see UCLA than Savannah St.

Obviously tier pricing gets ticket holders semi-riled up, but I'd have no problem paying more money to see Wisco, ND, or a solid out of conference opponent.

Also, if I do some math (given this is raw and I have no idea what the actual numbers look like), but if 12,000 come out for a cupcake, and let's say the average ticket price is $25, you're getting $300,000 at the gate that night. If some great out of conference team comes in, and MU tiers the pricing up to an average of $30 and gets 18,000, their getting $540,000 at the gate.

Budgeted out over two years, that tier pricing almost makes up the difference in the year MU goes on the road and returns the non conference game. Done properly, if this is also a year MU is a borderline NCAA team, and gets victories against said great out of conference team, an NCAA tournament berth would make it even more worth every penny.