Rivers to Indiana

[MR.HAYWARD]

per the Washinton Post.

Now it may just be me but I really think Crean is digging his grave already at IU.  All one has to do is look at the recruitng classes that the top notch Big ten schools are signing.  OSU, MSU and even illinois and Wisconsin are signing or have coming in a whole string of 4 and 5 star recruits. 
Crean has gotten a bunch of kids to commit to the program but none of them have the type of talent that IU fans are going to expect or honestly need to beat their foes. 
Rivers, for example, is a 3 star kid out of HS and we have seen that while he is a decent player and a very solid defender he is not going to lead them anywhere.  Not to mention he will take a scholarship for a year when they need one and will be with the program for 3 years.  He does not match the abilties of the kid's talent on the teams IU is trying to catch.  Another example of that is Capobianco, a 3 star kid that did not exactly have a long line of top programs after him.  Nick Williams and Jones will be solid players in time but again are 3 star type players when their peers are signing 4 and 5 star players.  Creek is more highly rated than the others but there appaers to be no difference makers in his recruits to this point.  The only top notch Big Ten team that gets away with recruitng like that is Wisconsin becuase of their system and becuase as much as I dislike him Bo is an outstanding coach.   It appears to me that his incoming talent that he will be saddled with for the next 4-5 years is no better than a 4th or 5th place finsih in the BIg Ten.  Very similar to his success at MU.  The big difference is while fans at Mu may be happy or content with 4th, 5th, 6th place BE finishes.  IU fans will be more than restless with 4th or 5th palce finishes in the Big Ten come years 4 and 5 in Bloomington.  Crean needs a couple difference makers real soon or his lot will be cast.  It also appears he will have a guard only lineup in Bloomington and then the Iu fans will get to hear how the guards need to rebound better.  It also appears that for the first time in my life I will actually root for Wisconsin even if it is only one or two times a year.   

[ATWizJr]

not sure about the reasons or TC bringing in the other recruits, but, in Rivers case, could it have been a concession to Doc?

[Tugg Speedman]

Rivers plans to enroll at Indiana
THE WASHINGTON TIMES

http://washingtontimes.com/article/20080510/SPORTS/541289576/1005/sports

Georgetown guard Jeremiah Rivers, who announced his intention to transfer this past week, plans to enroll at Indiana, according to a source close to the program.

A 6-foot-4 guard who served as the Hoyas' defensive stopper during his two seasons with the Hoyas, Rivers joins another former Big East performer in Bloomington, Ind., where he will attempt to help former Marquette coach Tom Crean rebuild the Hoosiers.

The Hoosiers return only one guard (freshman Jordan Crawford) with any experience after Eric Gordon declared for the NBA Draft, A.J. Ratliff exhausted his eligibility and Armon Bassett and Jamarcus Ellis were dismissed in the past two months.

According to a story published in yesterday's Boston Globe, Celtics coach Doc Rivers was not pleased with his son's decision to leave Georgetown.


But the young guard felt like a shift to Crean's perimeter-oriented system would help him improve on last season's pedestrian production: 2.5 points and 2.4 rebounds in 18.4 minutes.

— Barker Davis

--------------

Boston Globe
May 9, 2008

http://www.boston.com/sports/basketball/celtics/articles/2008/05/09/garnett_voted_to_nba_first_team/

Georgetown University announced Wednesday that Jeremiah Rivers, son of Doc, has decided to transfer. The elder Rivers said his son, a guard who just completed his sophomore season, is considering four to five schools.

Rivers averaged 2.5 points, 2.4 rebounds, and 1 assist in 18.6 minutes for the Hoyas last season.

"It's something he wanted to do," said Doc Rivers. "I loved where he was at. He wants to be happy in a different system. He loved Coach [John ] Thompson. I love Coach Thompson. It was a tough one.

"I didn't try [to change his mind] because if I did and it didn't work out then it's Dad's fault. I did try to show him where he was at as far as school. He was playing a lot and had a great chance to start the following year.

"Kids, sometimes they want to do things and you just support him. That's what you do as a parent."

[bma725]

That seems to dispel the myth that some have pushed that Rivers didn't want to play for Crean.  Unfortunately it seems the kid just didn't want to play at MU, dealing with his father's shadow was too much.

[Tugg Speedman]

I completely agree with the post above (first one).  Crean is NOT getting the type of kid to compete with MSU, OSU, Wisconsin or Ill.  Next year they will be 11th in the big ten.  In three years, they are looking at fifth.  Rivers in not the kid to change this and Crean just used up another spot for the next three years.

I don't think IU fans had a fifth place big ten finish in 3 to 4 years as their idea when they hired Crean.

[Pakuni]

per the Washinton Post.

Now it may just be me but I really think Crean is digging his grave already at IU.  All one has to do is look at the recruitng classes that the top notch Big ten schools are signing.  OSU, MSU and even illinois and Wisconsin are signing or have coming in a whole string of 4 and 5 star recruits. 
Crean has gotten a bunch of kids to commit to the program but none of them have the type of talent that IU fans are going to expect or honestly need to beat their foes. 

Nick Williams = Four stars, RSCI top 100
Maurice Creek = Four stars, Scout #76

He's been on the job for a month and already landed a couple of four-star, top 100 kids and is on the list of six of Scout's top 27 players the Class of 2009. He'll do just fine at Indiana and the notion that he won't is wishful thinking among the sour grapes crowd.

[Tugg Speedman]

That seems to dispel the myth that some have pushed that Rivers didn't want to play for Crean.  Unfortunately it seems the kid just didn't want to play at MU, dealing with his father's shadow was too much.

He could not play for MU, not allowed to transfer to another Big East school

[nyg]

Verdell Jones, Nick Williams, Maurice Creek and Rivers.  All guards and in two years watch for the arguments because of playing time.

[ZiggysFryBoy]

Verdell Jones, Nick Williams, Maurice Creek and Rivers.  All guards and in two years watch for the arguments because of playing time.

not with crean's new 5 guard lineup they won't.

[bma725]

He could not play for MU, not allowed to transfer to another Big East school

I know that.  I'm talking about the people that blasted Crean during Rivers high school recruitment for not getting a kid when his dad went to MU.  They talked non stop about how Rivers would have gone here if it weren't for Crean.  Turns out the exact opposite is true.

[Tugg Speedman]

Nick Williams = Four stars, RSCI top 100
Maurice Creek = Four stars, Scout #76

He's been on the job for a month and already landed a couple of four-star, top 100 kids and is on the list of six of Scout's top 27 players the Class of 2009. He'll do just fine at Indiana and the notion that he won't is wishful thinking among the sour grapes crowd.

I've asked this before and I'll ask it again, when does an elite program stop being an elite program?

IU stinks next year, that is a given.  Two years they are 6th ot 7th in the Big Ten, no tourney bid.  Years 3 and 4 they are fifth in the big ten and a bubble team.  So, four years from today Crean comes calling.  Is IU an elite team anymore?  Why? The guy will have four years and no tourney bid.  He will be indistguishable from Iowa or Michigan.  Creek, Jones and Williams are nice players, which is why they will get to fifth place in the big ten.  But, look at the rest.  He simply does not have the horses to compete and "throwing away" scholarships on Rivers and Copbianco is not going to get him their.  We've seen this before, the late season commitments from Brandon Bell, Chartlon Christian and so on.

[Tugg Speedman]

Nick Williams = Four stars, RSCI top 100
Maurice Creek = Four stars, Scout #76

He's been on the job for a month and already landed a couple of four-star, top 100 kids and is on the list of six of Scout's top 27 players the Class of 2009. He'll do just fine at Indiana and the notion that he won't is wishful thinking among the sour grapes crowd.

Scout also says MU is on the list of nine 4-star and 5-star (wilson) recruits for 2009.  Buzz will do just fine and have us in the top five in a few years.

http://marquette.scout.com/a.z?s=415&p=9&cfg=bb&c=4&yr=2009

I'm buying your statement about IU as much as I'm buying the statement I wrote above.

[77ncaachamps]

The way I see it - barring top 3 finishes in the Big ten in his first 4 years - Crean's hire was to clean up the mess at Indiana.

Then if the IU fandom is still not pleased (i.e., a top 2 finish or early first round exits in the tourney), Crean's hard work was for nought: he'll get the shaft (and a "Thank You for cleaning up after Sampson") or...

He shafts them and leaves for MSU.

If I was a gambling man, I'll take the early bet on the latter.

[THEGYMBAR]

I hope he continues to recruit players like Rivers. Better at IU than MU. TC recruits three star players and hopes to lucky. I think Rivers going to IU is one of the funniest things in the whole TC/Buzz mess.

[RawdogDX]

Scout also says MU is on the list of nine 4-star and 5-star (wilson) recruits for 2009.  Buzz will do just fine and have us in the top five in a few years.

http://marquette.scout.com/a.z?s=415&p=9&cfg=bb&c=4&yr=2009

I'm buying your statement about IU as much as I'm buying the statement I wrote above.

You people are so funny.  Crean picks up a shut down defender to come off the bench in 09 when he has no players and tons of availble PT.  He's going to land top recruiting classes these next couple of years.  He will make the ncaa in 09.

When does a program stop being an eliete program?  Right now a top 10 recruit goes to purdue and you say 'how the hell did purdue get him?' if he goes to indiana you say 'figures, must be nice to recruit with a name.'   And that's why he's there and that's why he's going to have a good team in two years and a better one in three.

[THEGYMBAR]

Rawdog---Lot of truth in your comments. However, has IU really been elite the last ten years? I would say UW and MSU are more elite BT programs currently. Granted without the trophy case of IU.

I think TC will have difficult time landing top 10 players because he never has successfully recruiting them. That was my issue when people mentioned Majerus as MU coach. Rick recruits out of ease and I think TC does as well. TC recruits a dozen top 75-100 players and hopes he gets three. Then he hopes one of the three will end up being a top 40 player.

Seldom do coaches change their mindsets. TC has recruited 6-4" guards that are upper midlevel players. That is his style.

[jce]

Rawdog---Lot of truth in your comments. However, has IU really been elite the last ten years? I would say UW and MSU are more elite BT programs currently. Granted without the trophy case of IU.

Both Kentucky and UCLA went through some down times too, but they have bounced back pretty well.  That is the case with programs like Indiana - you can fall, but the bounce back is a bit easier. 

[Tugg Speedman]

Both Kentucky and UCLA went through some down times too, but they have bounced back pretty well.  That is the case with programs like Indiana - you can fall, but the bounce back is a bit easier. 

Kentucky boucning back to get a 11th seed is hardly getting them back to elite status.  Right now they are just another team in the SEC, interchangeble with LSU.

[Tugg Speedman]

He will make the ncaa in 09.

the big ten sends 4 or 5 teams to the tourney.  In 09 those five teams are (in order) MSU, Wisc., OSU, Ill, Purdue.  Which one of these teams does IU beat?  Answer none. IU loses in the second round of the NIT in 2009.

[THEGYMBAR]

Kentucky is an elite program. IU is no Kentucky, even with Kentucky currently down. Kentucky looks for a new coach and it is major national news story. They interviewed Donovan after he just won 2nd championship. Sorry about IU wanting Bennett and then Crean does not scream out elite.

IU was elite for decades and can be elite again. What cracks me up is what defines elite. MU won 2nd most games in 70's and two FF that decade. Why is that an elite program? I think because we do not flaunt our past enough. MU was as close to ground zero in NCCA ball in 70's than any school except UCLA.

[Tugg Speedman]

Kentucky is an elite program. IU is no Kentucky, even with Kentucky currently down. Kentucky looks for a new coach and it is major national news story. They interviewed Donovan after he just won 2nd championship. Sorry about IU wanting Bennett and then Crean does not scream out elite.

So the definition of elite is down how profile you make your coaching search.  And, by your example, Kentucky is elite because Donovan said no to them?  I guess you think Florida is elite because Donovan stayed even though they did not make the NCAA last year.

I guess we need to define "elite"  Elite are the schools that get at least on McDonald's AA every year.  By my count their are only five such schools - UNC, Duke, UCLA and G-Town and Kansas.  Behond them are 20 to 25 schools that are "high major"  In that group are Kentucky, Florida, IU and MU.

[mviale]

I guess Indy gets one back as they lost ewing jr to Gtown.

[Pardner]

Verdell Jones, Nick Williams, Maurice Creek and Rivers.  All guards and in two years watch for the arguments because of playing time.

Four, 6'4" guards in one week...TC is going with his system.  He has already recruited over Nick Williams to build depth in the back court.  These guys are all lower rated than who left IU, decommitted, quit or transferred.  TC is doing it his way--but far from elite.  Buzz's one commit (EW) is higher rated than any of these guys.  But they are all solid--which is what TC needs for the next two years.

BTW, nothing about JR taking a scholie.  Preferred walk-on?  Smart move by TC. 

[ecompt]

When we start talking about how great IU will be in a few years (after probation), think back to the last seconds of the G'town and Stanford games. Yes, he'll do OK because the Big Ten sucks. That's it.

[Pakuni]

Scout also says MU is on the list of nine 4-star and 5-star (wilson) recruits for 2009.  Buzz will do just fine and have us in the top five in a few years.

http://marquette.scout.com/a.z?s=415&p=9&cfg=bb&c=4&yr=2009

I'm buying your statement about IU as much as I'm buying the statement I wrote above.

What statement about IU? That Crean will do fine?
Ummm ... OK. Landing two top 100 guys in a matter of weeks, and a solid rotational player in Rivers (who we'd all be happy to have at MU) clearly portends disaster, as you guys think. Crean kept Marquette in the top 5 of the Big East with, by and large, lesser recruits, but you think he's going to struggle to get IU in the top half of the Big Televen?
Sure. Keep telling yourself that.

And you're seriously equating MU being on the list of a bunch of top 75-150 guys with IU being on the list of top 25-30 guys?
I only wish it was the same thing.
When letters of intent get signed next November, come back and tell me that Crean won't be able to keep IU competitive with Wisconsin.