Nick Williams to IU

[MR.HAYWARD]

Chicos again completely misses or glosses over the point his ability to do that is Murp-esque.  he posts:

Did he call Erik Williams...probably did, is Erik Williams a committed player?  Verbally yes, but that's as good as the paper it's written on.  That stuff happens all the time and happened with Nick Williams verbal to MU by SEC schools up until the very end when he signed.  Welcome to reality.

Are you freaking kidding me Cico!!  Are those SEC coaches Two weeks removed from coaching at the school Williams committed to!!??

Give em a freaking break...no where have I said what he is doing is illegal and no where have i said i had a problem with him contacting Lacy, wilson, etc.  

Calling Erik Williams is a s classless and void of character as one can be.  It is indefensible and to come on here and defend it is a total joke!!  Its pathetic on your part!!

[ChicosBailBonds]

Honestly, my biggest problem with Crean poaching our recruits is that it's a loophole for him to get around the self-imposed sanctions and recruiting restrictions at Indiana.  The sanctions were put in place to show Indiana was punishing itself for the violations and placing themselves at a disadvantage.  With Crean using MU's recruiting budget, visits, contacts, etc. to bring in IU's recruiting class, these sanctions have no consequences for IU.


+1

The sanctions put in place were around the number of calls and in home visits, but it didn't limit calls entirely.

As someone pointed out, we got Fulce on UNO and Texas A&M's recruiting budget.   These things are going to happen.

[4everwarriors]

I'm still sore at Holmgren.  I doubt if this will pass any time soon, either.

I guess my problem is that he really did have me fooled.  I did not see it coming at all.  I knew he would leave at some point for a better job, which he has every right to do, but the way he bolted and completely turned his back on his players and everyone at MU just went against everything that he had been selling (and I had been buying) for the last 9 years.

I wasn't fooled. I knew he was as phoney as a 3 dollar bill from day 1 and took a lot of heat from my muscoop brothers and sisters for my stance which never wavered.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Chicos again completely misses or glosses over the point his ability to do that is Murp-esque.  he posts:

Did he call Erik Williams...probably did, is Erik Williams a committed player?  Verbally yes, but that's as good as the paper it's written on.  That stuff happens all the time and happened with Nick Williams verbal to MU by SEC schools up until the very end when he signed.  Welcome to reality.

Are you freaking kidding me Cico!!  Are those SEC coaches Two weeks removed from coaching at the school Williams committed to!!??

Give em a freaking break...no where have I said what he is doing is illegal and no where have i said i had a problem with him contacting Lacy, wilson, etc.  

Calling Erik Williams is a s classless and void of character as one can be.  It is indefensible and to come on here and defend it is a total joke!!  Its pathetic on your part!!

Sigh.  I didn't say you had a problem with Wilson, but others here and elsewhere have.

You may not like that he called Erik Williams, I don't like it either....all I said is it happens.  Coaches in the SEC were trying to sway Nick Williams from taking the MU offer up until he signed.  But I'll look at it another way, is it classless for a coach to call a player that recruited to play for him to say ask where his allegiances are?  Some will say yes, some will say no.  I wasn't on the phone, I don't know what was said.  I believe Erik's dad said we knew it was going to come down to IU and MU after the change, that pretty much tells me that the kid was considering IU also....don't you think?  Wouldn't a rational person assume that he was going to call Crean or vice versa since that's who he committed to play for as his coach?

If my kid committed and the coach left, I would want at the very least for my kid to at least have a call with the previous coach, weigh his options, etc.  That sounds like what Erik did and he's coming to MU.  I don't think we should fault him or anyone else in the process.

For those so angry they could spit, you're going to see things differently.  That's fine, but don't rip on others because we don't hold your vitriol....afterall, we have Buzz to save the day.

[The Lens]

I wasn't fooled. I knew he was as phoney as a 3 dollar bill from day 1 and took a lot of heat from my muscoop brothers and sisters for my stance which never wavered.

There are now 3 types of MU fans:

Those who weren't fooled and couldn't stand him
Those who weren't fooled and put up with it
Those who were fooled and can't believe it.

The last group really amazes me.

[mr.MUskie]

....afterall, we have Buzz to save the day.

I think that's what we're afraid of / p.o.'d about.

[sigep80]

The last major conference coach that I recall "poaching" committed recruits is...

Kelvin Sampson of IU.  First thing Sampson did was call Eric Gorden (who had verballed to Illinois) and convinced him that It's Indiana.

Coincidence? 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I wasn't fooled. I knew he was as phoney as a 3 dollar bill from day 1 and took a lot of heat from my muscoop brothers and sisters for my stance which never wavered.

LOL.  Many people knew he was an ass and a salesman, but we liked the results.  You also said he couldn't coach, it would be easy to find a replacement, etc....that's where many of us didn't see eye to eye with you.  I could care less if the coach is a guy I like....does he win, does he not cheat with the NCAA, that's what I want to know.

We'll see if it's as easy as you laid it out, that someone will just come in here and coach their ass off with no problems and be that nice guy you wanted to.  I have my concerns.

[4everwarriors]

Come on, JD, you of all people defended that prick till the very end and only recently have come out to say, "I always knew he was a jerk."
Hiring his replacement could have and should have been a cake walk, but MU may have f'ed that up as well which happens when you become a whore to the donors. One of the main reasons Crean has wanted out of here so badly since 2003 was he didn't want to be Strong's homeboy any longer.
All of that said, I have an open mind toward Buzz' hiring and am willing to give him the chance he's been afforded.

[Litehouse]

As someone pointed out, we got Fulce on UNO and Texas A&M's recruiting budget.   These things are going to happen.

Once again, I see Fulce's situation as different since he didn't come straight here.  Fulce had to burn a year of eligibility, which is arguably a harsher punishment than sitting out a year.

The fact we're already 4 pages into this thread and nobody can come up with another example of a head coach leaving and taking a recruit to his new school shows how rare this is.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Come on, JD, you of all people defended that prick till the very end and only recently have come out to say, "I always knew he was a jerk."
Hiring his replacement could have and should have been a cake walk, but MU may have f'ed that up as well which happens when you become a whore to the donors. One of the main reasons Crean has wanted out of here so badly since 2003 was he didn't want to be Strong's homeboy any longer.
All of that said, I have an open mind toward Buzz' hiring and am willing to give him the chance he's been afforded.

Yes I did defend him to the end, but also go back and look how many times I said he was prick, a jack to work for, etc....and yes I also looked the other way at times (shame on me).  But as long as he was winning and not cheating, you bet I could live with it.  And I certainly wasn't buying the complete crap by some that he couldn't coach or recruit.

5 NCAA appearances in 7 years including a Final Four, a conference title, a conference runner-up suggested otherwise.

For all the people who said he couldn't recruit and couldn't coach, how in the hell did we have the success we did?  Hmmm.

But he's gone....time for Buzz to save the day. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Crean did the job better than any coach since McGuire. Therefore, I appreciate the 9 years he put in, and I don't feel like I was "taken for a ride" or "fooled".

I've gotten great entertainment from the MU program over the past 9 years, and the players have ALWAYS represented the university well.

I was entertained by the product. I was proud of my school.

That's it.

I'm sorry if that is pissing some of you off.

[ChicosBailBonds]

Crean did the job better than any coach since McGuire. Therefore, I appreciate the 9 years he put in, and I don't feel like I was "taken for a ride" or "fooled".

I've gotten great entertainment from the MU program over the past 9 years, and the players have ALWAYS represented the university well.

I was entertained by the product. I was proud of my school.

That's it.

I'm sorry if that is pissing some of you off.

+1

[77ncaachamps]

New Nickname proposal for Nick Williams: JJ.

Judas Junior. 

[downtown85]

Yes I did defend him to the end, but also go back and look how many times I said he was prick, a jack to work for, etc....and yes I also looked the other way at times (shame on me).  But as long as he was winning and not cheating, you bet I could live with it.  And I certainly wasn't buying the complete crap by some that he couldn't coach or recruit.

5 NCAA appearances in 7 years including a Final Four, a conference title, a conference runner-up suggested otherwise.

For all the people who said he couldn't recruit and couldn't coach, how in the hell did we have the success we did?  Hmmm.

But he's gone....time for Buzz to save the day. 

I recall that often in Chicos posts in the past that his defense of Crean was not that he was a nice guy or a great Xs and Os coach but it was more or less based on the fact that should he leave we wouldn't necessarily get someone better. At the time, I took that to mean that Chicos had some insight into the decision-making process of the University adminstration without Cords.  In other words, the same administration that brought us the "Gold" would be responsible for selecting the next coach and would likely botch it.  Chicos has proven absolutely correct in terms the adminstration's performance in selecting the next coach.  The jury is out on Buzz but I do not think ANY of us were happy with the selection process. 

But whether or not Crean was good for MU, I just think he is a classless scumbag and he is now proving it.  When he left he had a choice. Act with class and integrity or screw everyone he could for his own personal gain. Help preserve the program he built or steal from it.  Build bridges or burn them. 

Crean signed up for a difficult situation at Indiana.  Now MU's program must help pay for its rebuilding.  From what I understand there are certain unwritten rules about poaching other program's recruits.  Once a recruit verbals other programs and coaches are supposed to lay off them.  The Erik Williams situations clearly crosses this line.  Because some SEC programs did it with Nick, doesn't mean they aren't scumbags.  However, there is no evidence of this other than Nick said he felt some pressure to change his mind.  I am not sure the "pressure" came from the coaches of those programs. 

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

Once a recruit verbals other programs and coaches are supposed to lay off them.  The Erik Williams situations clearly crosses this line. 

I don't know all of the unwritten rules of college hoops... so you could be right... but what if Erik Williams wanted to talk to Crean and hear about a possible opportunity at IU?

What if Nick Williams wanted to follow Crean to IU?

It's speculation that Crean was calling these kids and pressuring them... maybe these kids wanted to hear from him.

Again, given Crean's overall clean track record... I don't know that it's a slam dunk conclusion that he's a slime ball calling all of these kids and trying to change their minds. I realize that people dislike him for his recent actions, but his overall track record is clean.

I see where you are coming from... but I'm just not sure I can make that leap with as much certainty as some people on this board.

[downtown85]

I don't know all of the unwritten rules of college hoops... so you could be right... but what if Erik Williams wanted to talk to Crean and hear about a possible opportunity at IU?

What if Nick Williams wanted to follow Crean to IU?

I think Crean should have called them and say what Trent Johnson said to the incoming recruits when he left Stanford. They all recommitted by the way.  It is about integrity and it is about what is best for the kids.  Integrity because those kids committed to the University not the coach.  It is best for the kids to attend MU at this point since the program is in better shape than IU's with sanctions and all.  They are likely to benefit more for the next few years by being at MU.  Crean has no integrity and doesn't give a sh!t what is best for the kids, in the end. 

[bma725]

I think Crean should have called them and say what Trent Johnson said to the incoming recruits when he left Stanford. They all recommitted by the way.  It is about integrity and it is about what is best for the kids.  Integrity because those kids committed to the University not the coach.   

Trent Johnson didn't do that because he has integrity, or because it was the right thing to do.  He did it because he said the type of players he had at Stanford and could get at Stanford were not the type you need to get to the final four.  He didn't want the kids to follow him because he's convinced they can't compete in the SEC.  Heck, he's already started talking about how his former players(like Mitch Johnson) just weren't good enough to get to the next level.

[downtown85]

Perhaps you are right.  Perhaps such a thing as "doing the right thing" and integrity no longer exist in the college game.  Perhaps college basketball is just an extension of the NBA and the almighty $ rules.  It is sad if true. 

[77ncaachamps]

Perhaps you are right.  Perhaps such a thing as "doing the right thing" and integrity no longer exist in the college game.  Perhaps college basketball is just an extension of the NBA and the almighty $ rules.  It is sad if true. 

That's right on.

And that's why people root for the Davidsons and George Masons...the teams that lack the big money other schools have for their sports programs.

Underdogs are alive and well in the NCAAs.

[Canned Goods n Ammo]

I think Crean should have called them and say what Trent Johnson said to the incoming recruits when he left Stanford. They all recommitted by the way.  It is about integrity and it is about what is best for the kids.  Integrity because those kids committed to the University not the coach.  It is best for the kids to attend MU at this point since the program is in better shape than IU's with sanctions and all.  They are likely to benefit more for the next few years by being at MU.  Crean has no integrity and doesn't give a sh!t what is best for the kids, in the end. 

I have to be honest.

I HAVE NOT IDEA WHAT IS BEST FOR THESE KIDS.

I don't know if it is better for them to come to MU, or to go to IU.

So, I'm not sure I can say that Crean should recommend that they go to MU... maybe MU sans Crean isn't the best for the kid.

Maybe IU is a better fit.

I don't know any of these recruits, so I can't say.

[ChicosBailBonds]

I have to be honest.

I HAVE NOT IDEA WHAT IS BEST FOR THESE KIDS.

I don't know if it is better for them to come to MU, or to go to IU.

So, I'm not sure I can say that Crean should recommend that they go to MU... maybe MU sans Crean isn't the best for the kid.

Maybe IU is a better fit.

I don't know any of these recruits, so I can't say.

If the kid has asperations to go to the NBA or play in Europe, you're probably going to push him to Crean over Buzz.  Crean has that track record, Buzz doesn't.  That's why I agree with you 2002alum, how can anyone say what's best for the kids.  Shouldn't the kids and their families figure that out?

Of course now will come the accusations I'm defending Crean...but seriously.  If your kid has dreams of playing pro ball in Europe or the NBA and your choices were Buzz or Crean, the surer bet is going to be Crean.  Doesn't mean Buzz can't or won't be able to develop your son, but the reality is that Crean has.  Parents and kids are going to listen to that and if that's what they want, isn't that really what's best for the kids?  I have to laugh at all of the folks that are putting themselves in the players minds and determining what is best for them.  Somehow, I think maybe the kids and their parents should be doing that.  Call me crazy.

[BrewCity83]

I'm not saying I know what's best for each of these kids.  What's best is going to be different for each kid.  I just don't want Judas going from one day, on March 31st, telling them that MU is the best place for them, to on April 1st telling them that MU is all wrong for them just because Judas is now gone. 

[ChicosBailBonds]

I'm not saying I know what's best for each of these kids.  What's best is going to be different for each kid.  I just don't want Judas going from one day, on March 31st, telling them that MU is the best place for them, to on April 1st telling them that MU is all wrong for them just because Judas is now gone. 

I think Crean was probably saying the best place for them is with him...on March 31st that would be at MU, on April 1st that would be at IU.  That's what I'm sure the parents and players are asking as well.

[downtown85]

I think Crean was probably saying the best place for them is with him...

You hit the nail on the head there.  It is about him and always was.  Everything else was B.S.  I said before he has no principles.  Actually I was wrong, he does.  His one and only principle is what is best for Tom Creans is best.