Taylor still seeks release

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

PRN -- I could dispute a lot in your post, but I know it would do no good. Your mind is already made up about Buzz Williams and the MU administration.

Was it a risky hire? Definitely.

Can Buzz Williams get it done? Definitely.

Will there be bumps along the way? Most assuredly.

Bottom line ... your negativity about the MU program and the MU administration is tiresome and, frankly, lacks credibility.

You may think I lack credibility, but there is really nothing disputable in my post.

To your point about it being a risky hire, I ask why? Why make a risky hire when you consider the team we have coming back? What is the difference between "risky" and "questionable?"

When you have a stacked class of seniors returning -- a true rarity in college basketball -- is it a good decision to bring in an unproven and unknown head coach? And if it's not a good decision, is it not a BAD decision?

You can blow sunshine up MU's backside all you want, but this is as bad as it gets. And the Taylor situation is only the start, I'm afraid.

To be competitive in the Big East, who do you think Buzz Williams is going to have recruit against? If you agree the answer is Bruce Weber, Bo Ryan, Thad Matta, Toms Izzo and Crean and coaches of other Big East teams -- then how is it you think Buzz Williams will compete with his resume? What high school coach would steer a player to Marquette?  

[TallTitan34]

"My player is suddenly bigger and more popular than when he signed with MU and now I have an excuse to try and get him to a bigger program"

Exactly, and when he goes to Kansas or Florida we will see that the playing time issue was a load of crap.

[MarquetteFan94]

Hurley is no more hostile toward Marquette than its own fans are toward the administration that hired a complete question mark as its head coach.

We have 4 returning starters. 4 returning seniors and three guys who were named on all conference teams. We have an opportunity NEXT YEAR (not down the road, not 4 years hence) to advance significantly in the tournament. There will be no more experienced basketball team in the entire NCAA next year.

You would think that would BEG for a guy with some coaching background. A guy who can take a team that is borderline loaded next year and build on it. A guy who can take a team with an NCAA pedigree and, God willing, actually guide it through some close games by building on his COACHING (!) experience.

Instead, we hire a guy, who cannot explain his philosophy. We hire for "continuity." We hire a guy who reportedly weeps during press conferences and has exhibited curious behavior in the past. We proceed to lose at least one transfer -- with more reportedly possible -- and two recruits. CONTINUITY!!!!

Heading into a season that should be one of the most anticipated in YEARS, we're completely pissing away the senior years of James, McNeal, Matthews and Burke.

Can somebody PLEASE explain this hire to me? I mean, seriously.

This isn't just the worst coaching hire I've ever heard of, it might be the worst hire of any kind, in any line of work, that I've ever heard of considering the magnitude of the position.

Can't argue with one point.

[Pardner]

Continuity?

Lost (where we had to lose one):  Williams, SC and TT (90%).  TT is a loss, but a combo guard, not a pure PG.  

Saved (as it looks today):  DJ, TM (looks like he was gone with TC), PH (Same), JM (80%).

Gained: (rumored)  Butler (recruited by Miss St., Kentucky), Vanderbeken (UCONN)...so we get bigger next year and more experienced for transition year.  Announce their signing with TT's release if possible.

dCube and Mo can play point with a 6"6" Butler or E. Williams at the 2.  Is that a "doomsday" scenario?  TC has four players at IU and his released recruits won't touch him.  That is doomsday.

Also, when will the Hurleys send their stars our way?  TT wasn't a hot commodity to start.  Now, he questions MU even before Buzz is hired?  Truth is, we took their development projects, and he is now spiking for a release on a guy who moved up the charts due to his teammates.  Cut bait and selectively close them off.  It can work both ways.  

[MarkMiller]

PRN -- You make some valid points, points I'm sure Steve Cottingham and others considered. Bottom line ... Cottingham, Fr. Wild, Bill Cords, Doc Rivers, Ulyice Payne, John Bergstrom and others met with Buzz Williams for days felt he was the right guy for the job.

The other bottom line -- it's hard to take your public rants serious because that's all you do is rant. Smile once in a while.  

[thatman32]

I still cannot believe the administration would even listen to Doc Rivers?  He might have one of the best team in the NBA NOW but otherwise he hasn't done a thing except lose a lot of games and not get past the first round of the NBA playoffs.  John Bergstrom  sells cars so he has a lot of credibility too!!

[Pakuni]

Translated for rational thought:
1) A kid who has never played a Division I basketball game
2) A solid role player
3) An unknown recruit
4) Another unknown recruit with issues

1. Kind of like TT and NW, except thought of much more highly. Ironic some would bemoan the losses of some, but downplay EWilliams as an uknown.
2. Time will tell
3. Time will tell. Good enough for Miss. State.
4. What issues? Good enough for UConn.

[hoops12]

PRN:

You claimed for a long time that you were a fan of Marquette, but not of Crean. Now, you immediately turn on Coach Williams and he hasn't even been on the job for two weeks. The two recruits that are asking for their release, asked for it immediately. It really has very little to do with our new coach.

It is plain to see that you are not a supporter of Marquette, but a very good whiner and critic of the program. Being "negative" must just be part of your nature.

Common sense would tell the average intellect to give Buzz a year to coach, recruit, and run the rest of the program before you judge him so negatively. I believe this is going to be a good year in many ways. Then again, I am a Marquette fan, and I will stay positive unless someone proves me to think another way. You my friend should stay away from any cliffs.

GO MU!

[reinko]

Getting back to the title of thread...seriously everyone, TT is someone you have seen 7 clips of on Youtube, and because he is not coming, the end of the world is here???


CRIPES!

[thatman32]

PRN is a fan of the program.  He doesn't eat the crap that a lot of people spew.  It's hard to get behind a guy that really hasn't done anything when there were better canidates out there.  In addition, I fail to see the upside?  What is the upside that he can actually coach and recruit.  I think we could have gotten that with an outside hire.

[MUSF]

PRN:

You claimed for a long time that you were a fan of Marquette, but not of Crean. Now, you immediately turn on Coach Williams and he hasn't even been on the job for two weeks. The two recruits that are asking for their release, asked for it immediately. It really has very little to do with our new coach.

It is plain to see that you are not a supporter of Marquette, but a very good whiner and critic of the program. Being "negative" must just be part of your nature.

Common sense would tell the average intellect to give Buzz a year to coach, recruit, and run the rest of the program before you judge him so negatively. I believe this is going to be a good year in many ways. Then again, I am a Marquette fan, and I will stay positive unless someone proves me to think another way. You my friend should stay away from any cliffs.

GO MU!

I think you're missing PRNs point here.

He is not bashing Buzz but the main reason given for his hire was continuity. Now, that seems to be a question and we have a very visible HS BBall coach publicly questioning the hire. Buzz is going to have to show some results quickly to quiet concerns and give recruits and their coaches confidence in his program.

Any way you look at it, this was a risky hire. Many thought MU was beyond these types of hires and could grab more of a sure thing.

[Pakuni]

Any way you look at it, this was a risky hire. Many thought MU was beyond these types of hires and could grab more of a sure thing.

Who are these sure things of which you speak?

[Thomas' Danish Delight]

"Looking at Marquette's roster, there's going to be a big logjam now in the backcourt but we kind of figured Tom Crean would be able to handle a situation like this," Hurley said. "But we are talking about a guy who coached at the University of New Orleans for one year, and that's his head coaching experience."

Can someone just give Buzz a chance?  I mean, Crean leaving did more to "unlogjam" our backcourt (bye SC and Nick Williams) than DJ leaving, which was probably the only departure everyone possibly foresaw a month ago.

Oops...didn't realize Cracked Sidewalks said the exact same thing.  Anyways...we picked up Butler and Vanderbeken?  Wait, what?  News to me.  I'll needa read through these threads.

[ATWizJr]

so, he doesn't come...no surprise there.

Hurley, cloaked in the veil of " I'm just looking out for my kid" is using this opportunity to grandstand on a national stage and show everybody just how important he thinks he is.

Citing "coaching inexperience"  is going out of the way to pulbicly harm the MU program.  Why not just say that
TT took another look at his options and leave it at that.  This public dissing of MU is what is pissing me off about how Hurley has handled the situation.

I say, cut 'em loose, both player and coach, wish 'em well, and on to the the next prospects.

AS for PRN's comments, he is not a fan of the program, he is a fan of PRN and he is in his glory when he can tell you "I told you so" and can revel in what he perceives to be the misfortune of others.  I'll bet he drives a red convertible with signs on the side that say "look at me, look at me, look at me".

[MUSF]

Any way you look at it, this was a risky hire. Many thought MU was beyond these types of hires and could grab more of a sure thing.

Who are these sure things of which you speak?

Sure thing is a bad choice of words. Known commodity would have been better. Specifically, a proven head coach or a top assistant with more/better experience. I know you will argue the point of more/better experience. I followed the KO v. Buzz thread. Agree to disagree.

Before any of you start screaming MU hater, realize that I am not saying Buzz is a bad hire. I am simply saying it was a risky hire that I hope pays off. I, and others, are simply wondering aloud whether the risk was necessary or not.

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

AS for PRN's comments, he is not a fan of the program, he is a fan of PRN and he is in his glory when he can tell you "I told you so" and can revel in what he perceives to be the misfortune of others.  I'll bet he drives a red convertible with signs on the side that say "look at me, look at me, look at me".

You don't like people who drive "look at me" cars? Would a gold Hummer qualify? It wasn't too long ago that Crean thought those were a good idea as a perk to keep our assistants from running off. I'm sure you agreed.
Now one of those assistants is our head coach.

You're right about one thing, I am a HUGE fan of myself.

Look, I wouldn't get so worked up if I wasn't a Marquette fan. And I have nothing personal against Buzz Williams. I would have been perfectly happy to see him as head coach at TCU or as a lead assistant at Indiana (or Marquette). I just think it's an absolute JOKE that our head coach has no real business trying to recruit against Dayton or Wright State, much less Louisville, Wisconsin, or even DePaul.

I'm not going to pretend to be excited about his hire, like a lot of people are. It was a horrible, horrible decision and indicates to me that whoever made the final call is incapable of thinking things through rationally. And I don't care if it was Fr. Wild. He's not above reproach, either!

I've said it once and I'll say it again, Buzz Williams will not last more than 4 years at Marquette. Let's just hope we don't need a Geiger Counter when he leaves.

[ATWizJr]

don't know about gold hummers.

don't care about gold hummers.

am amazed at your need for attention.  We all know you don't like the hire.  You've made your point. At ease.

[Coobeys Oil Depot]

Translated for rational thought:
1) A kid who has never played a Division I basketball game
2) A solid role player
3) An unknown recruit
4) Another unknown recruit with issues

1. Kind of like TT and NW, except thought of much more highly. Ironic some would bemoan the losses of some, but downplay EWilliams as an uknown.
2. Time will tell
3. Time will tell. Good enough for Miss. State.
4. What issues? Good enough for UConn.

I think there should be some amount of bemoaning when the top 2 players of our recruiting class will not attend MU.

You throw statements like "thought of much more highly" around as if it's fact. How can you determine that? Each person values a recruit differently. Having seen Taylor play, I know how good he can be. What we are upset about is where this leaves MU. Our guard situation is going to go from ridiculous talented to ridiculous thin whereas it looked like Taylor/Williams would make it a smooth transition.

The last 3 are absolute truth on my part. Visiting a school does mean a recruit is "good enough" for so-and-so. It's April. Most spring signings are reaches. Most are kids who have underperformed elsewhere and are perceived to be better since they spent a year out of the spotlight.

You, as well as I and every other MU fun, knows very little of Butler and Vanderbeeken. Hell, 99.9% of MU fans probably didn't even know these two people existed prior to 10 days ago. Therefore, they are unknown.

And, as for Vanderbeeken's issues since you're such a good detective why don't you spend some time searching around and looking for hints from the MU "insiders" who post on these internet forums.

[nyg]

OK, so Taylor does not come to MU. He is a nice prospect, but not highly rated as a Chalmers, Bayless, Collison or even Johnnie Flynn.  Scouts had him as the 15th best Point Guard and Rivals had him as the 21st ranked Point Guard.  Would Taylor have added height to the MU point guard spot, yes.  Could he have made strides to show his rankings were undeserved, maybe.  But he doesn't want to come to MU, and between him and Coach Hurley, have basically held MU hostage over the past two weeks. This after two guards leave the program, creating more playing time for him.  Enough of this.  Get a JUCO guard or hold the spot for 2009 recruits.  The seniors should be able to carry the team this year, but as noted previously, 2009 will be the make or break year.  

The identities of those highly rated players considering MU have been published in previous threads.  If the reason Buzz was hired was in fact to recruit and SIGN these 2009 players, he must identify and hire his staff immediately.  It has taken too long, especially now during the contact period.  Where is his staff?  He can't be doing this all by himself, if he is, he just wasted alot of time on one PG recruit and a vocal HS coach.

The scary thought is that the Hurley quote "He's only been a coach for one year" is going to make its way around the AAU programs and other AAU coaches/mentors of these young athletes via the media or word of mouth.  That could be devastating to the recruiting process.

Get a staff in place now, hit the road, and use the recruiting ability that Buzz was supposedly hired for. This has been a really strange and disappointing last two weeks and I hope it doesn't relate to years lost.  I am not optimistic today.  

[PuertoRicanNightmare]

don't know about gold hummers.

don't care about gold hummers.

am amazed at your need for attention.  We all know you don't like the hire.  You've made your point. At ease.

My "need for attention?" Why the need to attack my character because you disagree with my opinion?

And this "you've made your point" mentality dumbfounds me as well. Have you not also made your point that you disagree with my stance? Why keep rebutting? I know your point of view. Why do you keep repeating yourself?

[Thomas' Danish Delight]

OK, so Taylor does not come to MU. He is a nice prospect, but not highly rated as a Chalmers, Bayless, Collison or even Johnnie Flynn.  Scouts had him as the 15th best Point Guard and Rivals had him as the 21st ranked Point Guard.  Would Taylor have added height to the MU point guard spot, yes.  Could he have made strides to show his rankings were undeserved, maybe.  But he doesn't want to come to MU, and between him and Coach Hurley, have basically held MU hostage over the past two weeks. This after two guards leave the program, creating more playing time for him.  Enough of this.  Get a JUCO guard or hold the spot for 2009 recruits.  The seniors should be able to carry the team this year, but as noted previously, 2009 will be the make or break year. 

The identities of those highly rated players considering MU have been published in previous threads.  If the reason Buzz was hired was in fact to recruit and SIGN these 2009 players, he must identify and hire his staff immediately.  It has taken too long, especially now during the contact period.  Where is his staff?  He can't be doing this all by himself, if he is, he just wasted alot of time on one PG recruit and a vocal HS coach.

The scary thought is that the Hurley quote "He's only been a coach for one year" is going to make its way around the AAU programs and other AAU coaches/mentors of these young athletes via the media or word of mouth.  That could be devastating to the recruiting process.

Get a staff in place now, hit the road, and use the recruiting ability that Buzz was supposedly hired for. This has been a really strange and disappointing last two weeks and I hope it doesn't relate to years lost.  I am not optimistic today. 

Great summary, nyg.  I hope we get Butler and Vanderbeken.  Two 6'10 guys wouldn't hurt.  I'm sure our senior class will be more than solid for us next year, but definitely need those role players.  Hopefully come 2009-2010, we'll solid 1s and 2s.

We'll see though.  Show us what you got, Buzz!  I got your back, for now, but don't let me down and validate everyone else's bitching!

[Hards Alumni]

those of you questioning PRN's fandom need to take a step back.

People who question leadership usually are the ones who truly care about the situation.  Everyone that is just going with the flow and blindly following whatever the administration is doing are really just zealots of a cult.

Facts are facts.  PRN made points that no one here has been able to refute.  Instead, he has had his fandom questioned, and has been personally attacked.  How mature. 

Dissent is a GOOD thing, folks.

PRN, ignore the detractors, keep up the good fight, and the rest of us who are rational, open minded, 2+2=4 kind of people, will continute to agree.

[Pakuni]

And, as for Vanderbeeken's issues since you're such a good detective why don't you spend some time searching around and looking for hints from the MU "insiders" who post on these internet forums.

Oh, please. Don't go around tossing out implications about people then lack the uh ... ability ... back it up. You claimed he had issues. I've heard nothing of the sort. Please tell me what they are or admit you don't know anything about it.

As for "good enough" ... Butler was offered by Mississippi State coming out of high school, so this spring signing bit is inaccurate.
Same with Vandebeken, who signed with Iowa out of high school and also was recruited by UCLA, Cal and Oregon State.
Try as you might to portray them otherwise, these guys aren't the scrap heap. Either would be a good get for MU.

[ATWizJr]

Because no amount of your whining and complaining is going to change who our coach is.  The MU athletic department is not going to rescind it's decision no matter how many times you post that you are unhappy with it.  So, what's the point? Really?

[ChicosBailBonds]

Any way you look at it, this was a risky hire. Many thought MU was beyond these types of hires and could grab more of a sure thing.

Who are these sure things of which you speak?

We don't know, the banquet and ad were getting ready so we cut the search short.   


But for names....Gregory, Brownwell, Willard, Weber, Les, etc, etc....Buzz was still there a week later......

Oh well.  This upcoming year is going to be interesting.  Pray the Texas connection works and Global Warming kicks in big time (another drop in temps this year) as we need to warm up Milwaukee for these kids.  I think I'll buy another SUV.