Tipping Fatigue

[MuggsyB]

It's getting completely ridiculous.  So if you go to a kiosk or snack stand at an airport, where there's a 100% surcharge on everything, we're also supposed to tip 18-25%?  Just get rid of this nonsense. 

[pbiflyer]

So much like Steve Martin in my blue heaven, I don't believe in tipping I believe in over tipping.
But the places tips are being requested now is insane. Well.

[forgetful]

I'm a generous tipper, and even I am fatigued by the ridiculous of it now.

[Shaka Shart]

It's getting completely ridiculous.  So if you go to a kiosk or snack stand at an airport, where there's a 100% surcharge on everything, we're also supposed to tip 18-25%?  Just get rid of this nonsense. 

If they offer you the high chair without asking you should tip 20% minimum

[MuggsyB]

If they offer you the high chair without asking you should tip 20% minimum

I'm a generous tipper, and even I am fatigued by the ridiculous of it now.

I'm generous as well but at some point this just needs to stop.  Making people  feel guilty for not tipping 20% or more after they buy a pack of gum is outrageous.

[MuggsyB]

If they offer you the high chair without asking you should tip 20% minimum

I should get reparations. 

[jesmu84]

Want to get rid of tipping?

Support businesses and legislation that enforce full wages for employees without tips.

Boom. Tipping gone.

[Jay Bee]

Want to get rid of tipping?

Support businesses and legislation that enforce full wages for employees without tips.

Boom. Tipping gone.

Awful idea.

[NCMUFan]

New Zealand does it.
A little higher price at the Restaurant, but then the servers don't expect anything additional.

[NCMUFan]

Also, pay cash where you can.  It is when you tap the CC for approval or get the CC receipt that you are asked for a tip.

[The Sultan]

Many, if not most,  restaurant servers and bartenders wouldn't want to end the tipping system and go with a straight higher wage. One of my best friends is a bartender at a higher end place, and he makes a very nice living, much of which is unpreported cash. If they just gave him a straight wage instead, he would likely find something else to do with his time.

That being said, the only time I cheerfully give a tip outside of the traditional tipping jobs is at the local ice cream place down the street where its just a bunch of teenagers waiting on me. Otherwise, I will grudgingly tip $1 or so for other such jobs.

[Jay Bee]

That being said, the only time I cheerfully give a tip outside of the traditional tipping jobs is at the local ice cream place down the street where its just a bunch of teenagers waiting on me.

# C R E E P A L E R T

*it's

[jesmu84]

Many, if not most,  restaurant servers and bartenders wouldn't want to end the tipping system and go with a straight higher wage. One of my best friends is a bartender at a higher end place, and he makes a very nice living, much of which is unpreported cash. If they just gave him a straight wage instead, he would likely find something else to do with his time.

That being said, the only time I cheerfully give a tip outside of the traditional tipping jobs is at the local ice cream place down the street where its just a bunch of teenagers waiting on me. Otherwise, I will grudgingly tip $1 or so for other such jobs.

Sure sure. I'm familiar with a few high end servers who wouldn't be happy either.

There's probably not a correct answer/solution here, but which scenario is better for society as a whole?

[cheebs09]

What do you guys tip when picking up an order from a restaurant? I know during Covid it was encouraged to be generous, but now I'm getting a bit of fatigue on that one and not sure what most do.

[Jay Bee]

Sure sure. I'm familiar with a few high end servers who wouldn't be happy either.

There's probably not a correct answer/solution here, but which scenario is better for society as a whole?

To let the market decide. If you like the net pay, do the job. If not, don't do it.

[JWags85]

Want to get rid of tipping?

Support businesses and legislation that enforce full wages for employees without tips.

Boom. Tipping gone.

But the point is that tipping has escaped that realm.  Its not just "traditional" tipping spaces.  Nobody has Tipping Fatigue from bars or restaurants.

I remember when there was a legitimate discussion about tipping on take out orders, which largely ended and morphed into the norm during COVID when nearly everything became takeout for awhile.

But now nearly every counter service/fast casual restaurant has "mandatory" tipping entries that you have to bypass if you don't pay, that's a "full wage" business.  Ive been given then screen for tipping at no less than a half dozen different fast food places over the last year or so.  I had to manually bypass a tipping screen when I got my oil changed recently...AT A DEALERSHIP.  These are places that have compensation structures based around tipping.  Just because a place offers a "service" doesn't mean its a tipping venue.  You're not tipping the guy at the DMV or H&R Block for the service.

So yea, its basically sort of bled into a way that people have becoming overly accustomed to tipping post-COVID that they don't even think and add it blindly.  And it further has broken it because tipping was, forever, commiserate with doing a good job or above and beyond.  You wouldn't tip a cab driver who was rude or purposefully slow to hike the fare.  You wouldn't tip a bellhop who was rude or made you do most of the work, etc...  Now its gotten so out of hand that its just table stakes for anything offering it.  You got the service, so you also have to pay a tip in addition, regardless of said service.

And to be fair, I'm not even referring to service in restaurants.  I realize what a rough ecosystem that is (for both servers and restaurants themselves) so I still tip 18-20% as a baseline unless it was truly abysmal.  I'm not the kind of person (unfortunately usually older clientele) who start at 10% and make you "earn" higher.

And I say this last part not to be condescending, but there is part of the traditional tipping social arrangement that left both parties feeling good, in a way.  If you got great service, it felt satisfying to recognize that with an outsized tip.  The recipient appreciated it, it encouraged the whole ecosystem, it felt good for all, and not in some performative way.  It still does in some places, but too often its become almost a begrudging necessity.

[forgetful]

Sure sure. I'm familiar with a few high end servers who wouldn't be happy either.

There's probably not a correct answer/solution here, but which scenario is better for society as a whole?

It's some of these higher end places that have got me irritated at times. For work functions I often end up going to high-end restaurants where you will often drop $1k on a meal and some drinks. Tipping 20% ($200) in that case for a 1-hour dinner, when in some cases you have a server that you almost never see, with minimal service (i.e. no bread refills, having to flag someone down for a water refill), is sometimes irritating.

Especially when you know they mailed it in and you could get better service at a Denny's where the tip might only be $10-20.

[NCMUFan]

What do you guys tip when picking up an order from a restaurant? I know during Covid it was encouraged to be generous, but now I'm getting a bit of fatigue on that one and not sure what most do.

Good question.  Carryout is bringing the food from the kitchen to the pickup spot.  Paying cash avoids the CC asking for a tip.
A number of restaurants do not add on an additional % of the purchase price if paying by cash versus paying by CC.

[CreightonWarrior]

What do you guys tip when picking up an order from a restaurant? I know during Covid it was encouraged to be generous, but now I'm getting a bit of fatigue on that one and not sure what most do.

no tip on takeout for me. The only exception is maybe a local food truck or something.

[MUBurrow]

To let the market decide. If you like the net pay, do the job. If not, don't do it.

The notion that any kind of pure market economics is deciding anything at the lower end of the labor market is quaint.

[forgetful]

What do you guys tip when picking up an order from a restaurant? I know during Covid it was encouraged to be generous, but now I'm getting a bit of fatigue on that one and not sure what most do.

Since back of house staff (cooks etc.) often receive part of their wages from tip pooling, and they still had to work equally hard for my meal, I usually do, but it is generally a bit less 10-15%.

[jesmu84]

But the point is that tipping has escaped that realm.  Its not just "traditional" tipping spaces.  Nobody has Tipping Fatigue from bars or restaurants.

I remember when there was a legitimate discussion about tipping on take out orders, which largely ended and morphed into the norm during COVID when nearly everything became takeout for awhile.

But now nearly every counter service/fast casual restaurant has "mandatory" tipping entries that you have to bypass if you don't pay, that's a "full wage" business.  Ive been given then screen for tipping at no less than a half dozen different fast food places over the last year or so.  I had to manually bypass a tipping screen when I got my oil changed recently...AT A DEALERSHIP.  These are places that have compensation structures based around tipping.  Just because a place offers a "service" doesn't mean its a tipping venue.  You're not tipping the guy at the DMV or H&R Block for the service.

So yea, its basically sort of bled into a way that people have becoming overly accustomed to tipping post-COVID that they don't even think and add it blindly.  And it further has broken it because tipping was, forever, commiserate with doing a good job or above and beyond.  You wouldn't tip a cab driver who was rude or purposefully slow to hike the fare.  You wouldn't tip a bellhop who was rude or made you do most of the work, etc...  Now its gotten so out of hand that its just table stakes for anything offering it.  You got the service, so you also have to pay a tip in addition, regardless of said service.

And to be fair, I'm not even referring to service in restaurants.  I realize what a rough ecosystem that is (for both servers and restaurants themselves) so I still tip 18-20% as a baseline unless it was truly abysmal.  I'm not the kind of person (unfortunately usually older clientele) who start at 10% and make you "earn" higher.

And I say this last part not to be condescending, but there is part of the traditional tipping social arrangement that left both parties feeling good, in a way.  If you got great service, it felt satisfying to recognize that with an outsized tip.  The recipient appreciated it, it encouraged the whole ecosystem, it felt good for all, and not in some performative way.  It still does in some places, but too often its become almost a begrudging necessity.

Agree with all wags.

That's why I prefer removal of all tips/tipping.

[MU82]

In Seattle, the minimum wage has been raised to $21.30/hour. So servers and dishwashers at, say, IHOP start at that wage. (It's $17.13 in other parts of Washington state.)

Nicer Seattle restaurants often pay more than twice that, or else they wouldn't be able to keep their good employees.

Restaurants have raised prices accordingly, and many of them still put a large mandatory surcharge on each check.

Here's what one fine-dining restaurant group posted on its website:

Beginning January 1, 2025, Sea Creatures full-service restaurants have returned to the service charge model we used prior to the pandemic (2015-2020).

This 22% service charge is applied to all dine-in guest checks and is retained entirely by the house. Revenue from this service charge is used to pay operating expenses, including labor.

50% of the service charge provides additional hourly earnings directly to hourly staff: Front-of-house staff earn an additional $10–$30/hour, and back-of-house staff earn an additional $8–$20/hour. This is in addition to their $25/hour base wage. Accordingly, front-of-house staff earn between $35-$55/hour, base wage + additional earnings from the service charge. Back-of-house staff earn between $32-$45/hour, base wage + additional earnings from the service charge.

Service charge funds are also used to pay a base wage approximately 20% higher than Seattle's hourly minimum wage of $21.30 ($25/hour for cooks and servers and $23/hour for dishwashers), and to offer comprehensive benefits including:

++ health, vision, dental insurance
++ 401k matching retirement accounts
++ paid time off (above and beyond the City of Seattle's mandate)
++ Pre-tax commuter assistance accounts
++ A wellness program ($50/month reimbursements for mental health counseling, yoga classes, gym memberships, etc.)

These benefits are available to even to part-time employees working as few as 25 hours per week on average.

This approach ensures that servers and cooks across Sea Creatures' full-service restaurants earn hourly compensation that meets or exceeds what their counterparts earn at similar restaurants in Seattle, even before receiving optional additional gratuities. Moreover, they benefit from a robust package of perks not commonly available in the industry. Our commitment is to provide the most competitive compensation packages we possibly can for our team.

The 22% service charge reflects the historical average tipping percentage from our guests. This 22% service charge is in lieu of tips. Gratuities are not expected, however they are accepted. 100% of tips are distributed among non-lead, hourly workers in the front-of-house and back-of-house.

Sales tax is collected on this service charge per Washington State law.

We do not charge a service charge out our counter-service General Porpoise cafés. General Porpoise baristas earn minimum wage, $21.30 + tips.

https://www.eatseacreatures.com/page/service-charge

So you've just gone to one of their restaurants and received the bill for $500, which includes higher prices and a 22% surcharge (plus tax) to better compensate employees ... and they also present you with a screen with an option to include an additional tip.

We know folks who are adamant that they won't give a penny more in such a case, others who will give an extra 10% or so, and others who still tip 20% "because we feel guilty."

In several states, minimum wage for restaurant workers is $2.13 a hour. Obviously, those folks need to be generously tipped. But what's the etiquette when you know the workers are making $40+/hour - and you're paying higher menu prices to support it? We always tip (though not necessarily 20%), but we know lots of people who don't.

The latest thing I've noticed is restaurants saying they have added a nominal surcharge - usually 3-5% - to help cover "expenses," including salaries. They say the surcharge can be removed upon request. I'm guessing very few people request the fee's removal.

And yes, all of this restaurant-tip discussion is a whole 'nother thing than a car dealership's service department requesting a tip. Ridiculous.

It's crazy out there.

[Hards Alumni]

But the point is that tipping has escaped that realm.  Its not just "traditional" tipping spaces.  Nobody has Tipping Fatigue from bars or restaurants.

I remember when there was a legitimate discussion about tipping on take out orders, which largely ended and morphed into the norm during COVID when nearly everything became takeout for awhile.

But now nearly every counter service/fast casual restaurant has "mandatory" tipping entries that you have to bypass if you don't pay, that's a "full wage" business.  Ive been given then screen for tipping at no less than a half dozen different fast food places over the last year or so.  I had to manually bypass a tipping screen when I got my oil changed recently...AT A DEALERSHIP.  These are places that have compensation structures based around tipping.  Just because a place offers a "service" doesn't mean its a tipping venue.  You're not tipping the guy at the DMV or H&R Block for the service.

So yea, its basically sort of bled into a way that people have becoming overly accustomed to tipping post-COVID that they don't even think and add it blindly.  And it further has broken it because tipping was, forever, commiserate with doing a good job or above and beyond.  You wouldn't tip a cab driver who was rude or purposefully slow to hike the fare.  You wouldn't tip a bellhop who was rude or made you do most of the work, etc...  Now its gotten so out of hand that its just table stakes for anything offering it.  You got the service, so you also have to pay a tip in addition, regardless of said service.

And to be fair, I'm not even referring to service in restaurants.  I realize what a rough ecosystem that is (for both servers and restaurants themselves) so I still tip 18-20% as a baseline unless it was truly abysmal.  I'm not the kind of person (unfortunately usually older clientele) who start at 10% and make you "earn" higher.

And I say this last part not to be condescending, but there is part of the traditional tipping social arrangement that left both parties feeling good, in a way.  If you got great service, it felt satisfying to recognize that with an outsized tip.  The recipient appreciated it, it encouraged the whole ecosystem, it felt good for all, and not in some performative way.  It still does in some places, but too often its become almost a begrudging necessity.

All of this.  Also, I am never sure that the tips are the POS tablets are even going to the workers.  Or if they are, they aren't informed.  Out of guilt I have hit the tip at the local burrito place and I don't even get a 'thanks!' from them.  Do they know?  Do they get the money?  Do they not know to say thanks?

[JWags85]

All of this.  Also, I am never sure that the tips are the POS tablets are even going to the workers.  Or if they are, they aren't informed.  Out of guilt I have hit the tip at the local burrito place and I don't even get a 'thanks!' from them.  Do they know?  Do they get the money?  Do they not know to say thanks?

Exactly.  Thats sort of what I was getting at with my last point. 

I started going to a new barber a few months ago.  Shop is relatively inexpensive, but my guy is meticulous, we have some great conversations about soccer and Middle Eastern influenced EDM, and its an overall great experience.  I tip him really well comparatively to the cut price and he always comments and thanks me specifically for the tip.  Similarly, when you tip smallish at a restaurant in a non-tipping place, like Europe or the like, you normally always get an appreciative or almost surprised positive reaction.  I'm not expecting some ego stroking gratitude, but its just the mere acknowledgement that the tip is beyond the normal exchange/not expected, and both parties appreciate the service/tip.  When its just an expected addition on a POS tablet, or card reader, that isn't even acknowledged, its just like what's the point.

I think the most interesting variable place for me is food trucks.  Cause by and large they are owner/operator situations.  My wife and I have historically had conversations about not tipping "owners" (for example, at her eyelash salon and also nail salon, where she gets serviced by the owner), but for food trucks Ive been making exceptions.  My apartment complex has trucks come through a few times a month and Ive been tipping more for trucks that are pleasant, do customization, etc...  One of the trucks is actually owned by our next door neighbors, a middle aged couple with a catering company who started a truck 2 years ago.  They said they have never expected tips, especially from the catering industry, sometimes you get a couple hundred bucks if you really kill it for a venue or event.  But their POS software has it built in, there isn't even a pass-by in set-up.  You can tailor the settings for what 3 options are shown in addition to "custom" but you can't opt out of that part of the purchase process.