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Billy Hoyle

Quote from: Pakuni on August 12, 2026, 09:49:31 AMOK. This sentence was not in yesterday's column. Nor is there any mention of a preacher, chromosomes, megaphones, etc.
Maybe you were reading something else?

Check for yourself:
https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7504642/2026/08/11/wnba-drama-sophie-cunningham-caitlin-clark-dijonai-carrington/

Can I introduce you to Fox News, Barstool and OutKick?
From 11 a.m. to 9 p.m. Monday, Fox News mentioned the WNBA and Cunningham a combined 98 times. They slacked off yesterday, mentioning them only a combined 17 times.
Must not be anything newsy happening in the world.

Outkick currently has six (!) WNBA stories on its homepage. One of them is about sports.
https://www.foxnews.com/outkick



This is the article by Buckner I was referring to: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7499495/2026/08/08/sophie-cunningham-fever-wnba-protests-culture-wars/

I see now it was dated the 8th, but it came up in the morning email I get from The Athletic on Tuesday.

I don't read Outkick and the rest you mentioned, but it appears the mainstream sports publications like The Athletic are taking the bait and making sure the conversation they say they don't want to have continues.
"Kevin thinks 'mother' is half a word." - Mike Deane

Billy Hoyle

#76
Quote from: MU82 on August 11, 2026, 07:17:19 PMI follow the WNBA pretty closely, and I also do not believe the league overemphasizes lesbian relationships. Not sure what Wags is thinking with that.

I don't think they emphasize it, but the league is an outlier with players married to each other, be they teammates, rival players, or even coaches. Last year, DeWanna Bonner bailed on the Fever nine games into the season to sign with the same team as her wife. And a while ago, you had one of the faces of the league, Brittney Griner, arrested for beating up her fiancé, a player on another WNBA team. And the whole Buckers/Fudd situation isn't something one sees in other leagues. Those situations are not the same as players dating a singer, actor/actress, or an athlete in another sport.
"Kevin thinks 'mother' is half a word." - Mike Deane

Billy Hoyle

Quote from: MU82 on August 12, 2026, 11:26:41 AMI really think you're making way too much into the "WNBA overemphasizes LGBT" thing, Wags. But you made your points, and I'll let them stand.

I'm still floored by Billy wanting the NYT to somehow be kept from writing about the WNBA. That wasn't on my Scoop bingo card.


NYT? No. Bucker? She's a hack.
"Kevin thinks 'mother' is half a word." - Mike Deane

MU82

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on August 12, 2026, 01:13:23 PMI don't think they emphasize it, but the league is an outlier with players married to each other, be they teammates, rival players, or even coaches. Last year, DeWanna Bonner bailed on the Fever nine games into the season to sign with the same team as her wife. And a while ago, you had one of the faces of the league, Brittney Griner, arrested for beating up her fiancé, a player on another WNBA team. And the whole Buckers/Fudd situation isn't something one sees in other leagues. Those situations are not the same as players dating a singer, actor/actress, or an athlete in another sport.

Yes, there are lesbians in the WNBA. And yes, lesbians have some of the same relationship issues as heterosexuals do.

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on August 12, 2026, 01:15:30 PMNYT? No. Bucker? She's a hack.

Media outlets choose their own writers/columnists. Leagues and teams do not tell them who to choose. Thankfully.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

Pakuni

Quote from: Billy Hoyle on August 12, 2026, 01:02:40 PMThis is the article by Buckner I was referring to: https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/7499495/2026/08/08/sophie-cunningham-fever-wnba-protests-culture-wars/

I see now it was dated the 8th, but it came up in the morning email I get from The Athletic on Tuesday.

I don't read Outkick and the rest you mentioned, but it appears the mainstream sports publications like The Athletic are taking the bait and making sure the conversation they say they don't want to have continues.

1. I detect no lies in that column. Having read both, I'm still not sure what you find objectionable. That Sophie Cunningham is being called out for pouring gasoline on this issue, lighting a match and then criticizing the media for reporting on a fire?

2. Where do they say they don't want to have this conversation?

Pakuni

#80
Quote from: JWags85 on August 12, 2026, 10:01:44 AMI don't think its a direct marketing approach from the WNBA front office, but I do think its a pronounced angle from the "new media" associated with the league...Podcasts (both players and content creators), bloggers, prominent league affiliated social media, etc...

There is a sizeable contingent that view the WNBA as an LGBT league, not LGBT friendly or an LGBT ally, but that LGBT is a central part of the league and its marketing/narratives.  Which is why some of the stuff around intra-player romantic relationships and drama, inappropriate behavior on livestreams at WNBA events during the All Star weekend, etc... is not curbed in a way that you'd see in other professional leagues.



Thanks for a thoughtful, lengthy response. I couldn't hope to address everything here, so I'll reiterate that I'm not seeing some of the issues you've raised. That might simply be a result of not following the league closely ... I never have, probably never will listen to a WNBA player's podcast or follow one on Twitch.

I do agree that there's some LGBTQ gatekeeping around the league, and while unfortunate, it's not terribly surprising or unique. Soccer fandom, especially around the Euro leagues, wasn't exactly the most welcoming place 10-15 years ago. Just kind of a natural occurrence when something niche-y goes mainstream. Add in the fact that this particular niche group bonds over a shared history of marginalization, and you can perhaps understand why all the new fans and attention might make them feel squeezed out and less important.
I'm not defending the gatekeeping - it's counterproductive and shortsighted - but I get where it comes from.

As for the interpersonal issues ... yeah, I suppose that doesn't help the league's image, but I'm not sure what can be done about it. Unless they ban player relationships as part of a CBA (good luck), players will date and some of those relationships will end messy.
Of course, male teammate relationships never end messy either, right Shaq and Kobe?

MU82

Entertaining game last night between the Fever and Wings. Shepard and Fudd are out, and the Wings eventually wore down in the fourth quarter, but Bueckers did an amazing job keeping her team close. Meanwhile, Clark put on a show - she had 29 points, but it was her passing that was truly amazing.

Her feed to set up the basket that gave Mitchell her 18th consecutive 20-point game was especially incredible - a long bounce pass threaded between numerous defenders. (Mitchell's ability to catch the ball in traffic and turn it into an acrobatic layup was impressive, too.)

My son-in-law, a Canadian who is a huge hockey fan, watched a little of the game with me. He said Clark's ability to see the action ahead of her, to anticipate where her teammates were going and to make perfect deliveries reminded him of Wayne Gretzky. And as one who watched a LOT of hockey during Gretzky's heyday, I think the comparison was a pretty damn good one.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

21Jumpstreet

Quote from: MU82 on August 15, 2026, 09:58:26 AMEntertaining game last night between the Fever and Wings. Shepard and Fudd are out, and the Wings eventually wore down in the fourth quarter, but Bueckers did an amazing job keeping her team close. Meanwhile, Clark put on a show - she had 29 points, but it was her passing that was truly amazing.

Her feed to set up the basket that gave Mitchell her 18th consecutive 20-point game was especially incredible - a long bounce pass threaded between numerous defenders. (Mitchell's ability to catch the ball in traffic and turn it into an acrobatic layup was impressive, too.)

My son-in-law, a Canadian who is a huge hockey fan, watched a little of the game with me. He said Clark's ability to see the action ahead of her, to anticipate where her teammates were going and to make perfect deliveries reminded him of Wayne Gretzky. And as one who watched a LOT of hockey during Gretzky's heyday, I think the comparison was a pretty damn good one.

I think it is her greatest asset as a player. She is often a beat ahead of the team which sometimes leads to turnovers, but her passing is fun to watch.

MU82

Quote from: 21Jumpstreet on August 16, 2026, 09:53:06 AMI think it is her greatest asset as a player. She is often a beat ahead of the team which sometimes leads to turnovers, but her passing is fun to watch.

Yup. Most of her turnovers are due to either trying to be a little too aggressive with her passes or to teammates fumbling the ball. The latter actually has improved markedly as they (especially Mitchell and Boston) have learned to be ready for any pass any time.

Clark is playing her best basketball. Her numbers aren't as gaudy as they were at Iowa, but the competition is significantly better. She appears to be healthy for the first time in a while, and totally comfortable orchestrating the Fever offense.

I'm looking forward to seeing how she does in her first legit chance at a long postseason run. Games between the four most offensively talented teams - Minnesota, Indiana, Vegas and NY - should be really entertaining.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

MU82

Another real good game between contenders yesterday, this time Indiana vs Atlanta.

Reese missed a point-blank layup that could have won it for the Dream at the end of regulation. Mitchell, who had struggled much of the game, hit a huge driving layup over Reese late in OT; it also extended her run of 20-point games to 19.

It was the league's marquee game, with the excellent Ryan Ruocco and Rebecca Lobo on the call. IMHO, they are the best announcing team in basketball.

WNBA news of Marquette interest: Natisha Hiedeman (shoulder injury) couldn't play yesterday for Seattle. It was her first DNP since 2019. The Storm really missed her in their 2-point loss to Chicago.

"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

Uncle Rico

🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷

BM1090

Enes got kicked out of a Sky game today for getting into it with a player. Fvcking loser.

Jockey

Quote from: BM1090 on August 23, 2026, 10:14:50 PMEnes got kicked out of a Sky game today for getting into it with a player. Fvcking loser.

MAGAt trash.

MU82

Quote from: BM1090 on August 23, 2026, 10:14:50 PMEnes got kicked out of a Sky game today for getting into it with a player. Fvcking loser.

In addition to being ignorant, he is a despicable human being.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

Spaniel with a Short Tail

Agree about EK but from my reading it was instigated by the player which is likely what he wanted. She took the bait and gave the story legs. Best to just ignore him.

wadesworld

Unbelievably on brand that Kanter and Royce White identify as women.

GB Warrior

Quote from: MU82 on August 24, 2026, 10:18:13 AMIn addition to being ignorant, he is a despicable human being.

Not every day you see a 7 foot dildo on the court

MU82

Quote from: wadesworld on August 24, 2026, 10:53:16 AMUnbelievably on brand that Kanter and Royce White identify as women.

One's a has-been, the other's a never-was.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

JWags85

Quote from: Spaniel with a Short Tail on August 24, 2026, 10:45:55 AMAgree about EK but from my reading it was instigated by the player which is likely what he wanted. She took the bait and gave the story legs. Best to just ignore him.

Yea, he was clearly sitting front row with the shirt for this very reason, but beyond that trolling, Cloud was the one that started it.  Honestly, him standing up and moving towards the court was stupid cause if he sat and just yelled back and still got likely ejected, it would have made his ragebait even better and Cloud/WNBA officials look worse.

Yet again though, the WNBA can't stop stepping on the proverbial rake in all of this.  Kanter and White are terrible and formulaic/lazy messengers, but even at that lame and unclever level, they are still getting exactly what they want out of the WNBA.  The messaging from the league on the whole topic is still vague and inconsistent, the league (whether players, coaches, ownership) still look like they are shouting down/trying to silence voices they disagree with, and more of the poor marketing/league issues the WNBA has always dealt with.

Is this a minor issue being made into a huge culture war fighting point?  Absolutely.  But everyone involved is just chucking 50 gallon drums of gasoline onto the fire.  Just because you think one side is "morally right", doesn't mean that all their actions/commentary/behavior around the topic is commendable and justified...and thinking otherwise is childish and tribal.

MU82

#94
Quote from: JWags85 on August 24, 2026, 04:25:16 PMYea, he was clearly sitting front row with the shirt for this very reason, but beyond that trolling, Cloud was the one that started it.  Honestly, him standing up and moving towards the court was stupid cause if he sat and just yelled back and still got likely ejected, it would have made his ragebait even better and Cloud/WNBA officials look worse.

Yet again though, the WNBA can't stop stepping on the proverbial rake in all of this.  Kanter and White are terrible and formulaic/lazy messengers, but even at that lame and unclever level, they are still getting exactly what they want out of the WNBA.  The messaging from the league on the whole topic is still vague and inconsistent, the league (whether players, coaches, ownership) still look like they are shouting down/trying to silence voices they disagree with, and more of the poor marketing/league issues the WNBA has always dealt with.

Is this a minor issue being made into a huge culture war fighting point?  Absolutely.  But everyone involved is just chucking 50 gallon drums of gasoline onto the fire.  Just because you think one side is "morally right", doesn't mean that all their actions/commentary/behavior around the topic is commendable and justified...and thinking otherwise is childish and tribal.

I mean, he "started" it a couple weeks ago when he said (hilariously!) that he was bidding to play in the WNBA. And then he trolled at the game, as you said, before standing up and moving toward the court when challenged by Cloud.

The league absolutely could, and should, do better on this topic ... but he's a douchenozzle and an agitator whose sole purpose of showing up was to cause trouble.
"It's not how white men fight." - Tucker Carlson

"Guard against the impostures of pretended patriotism." - George Washington

"In a time of deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act." - George Orwell

MuggsyB

Quote from: JWags85 on August 24, 2026, 04:25:16 PMYea, he was clearly sitting front row with the shirt for this very reason, but beyond that trolling, Cloud was the one that started it.  Honestly, him standing up and moving towards the court was stupid cause if he sat and just yelled back and still got likely ejected, it would have made his ragebait even better and Cloud/WNBA officials look worse.

Yet again though, the WNBA can't stop stepping on the proverbial rake in all of this.  Kanter and White are terrible and formulaic/lazy messengers, but even at that lame and unclever level, they are still getting exactly what they want out of the WNBA.  The messaging from the league on the whole topic is still vague and inconsistent, the league (whether players, coaches, ownership) still look like they are shouting down/trying to silence voices they disagree with, and more of the poor marketing/league issues the WNBA has always dealt with.

Is this a minor issue being made into a huge culture war fighting point?  Absolutely.  But everyone involved is just chucking 50 gallon drums of gasoline onto the fire.  Just because you think one side is "morally right", doesn't mean that all their actions/commentary/behavior around the topic is commendable and justified...and thinking otherwise is childish and tribal.

The whole thing is incredibly stupid.  I wouldn't characterize this as a moral dilemma. 

Jockey

Quote from: MU82 on August 24, 2026, 12:47:00 PMOne's a has-been, the other's a never-was.

But in MAGAt-Land, denigrating women will always make you a hero. And the fact that the majority of these women are black is a huge bonus.

Jay Bee

Let's Go, Roysha!!!

#LetHerPlay
The portal is NOT closed.

jesmu84

What is the good faith discussion about what Kanter and Royce are doing?

Uncle Rico

Quote from: jesmu84 on August 25, 2026, 06:32:53 AMWhat is the good faith discussion about what Kanter and Royce are doing?

There isn't one.  Culture war distraction from the failures of the admiration amplified by right wing media.  The mouth breathers and low iq idiots offended by beer cans eat it up. 
🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷🇱🇷

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